I mean absolutely no disrespect toward anyone but I've noticed a few things that I believe deserve commenting on.

It took me 15 years since being first told I had ADD to actually believe it. Main reason being is that I've heard so much psychobabble cr*p. On an emotional level it's very difficult to admit to yourself that such asinine and seemingly innocuous behavior is the result of your own innate neurological make-up.

As a result the intellectual portion of my mind at least tried to make amends and rationalize the behavior. Now with the same intellect I've accepted that many negative behavioral characteristics can indeed be the result of a neurological deficit.

The same skepticism I had toward ADD or ADD like behavior is par for the course in society in general. I did not believe it despite repeating the same pattern over and over again.

I don't run around saying I have ADD, most people do not believe it. That's fine. The shame is when someone who has it does not believe it thus precluding any chance of getting help.

Many people suffering from what may be deemed a mental problem do not seek help because they do not want to be labeled as "crazy". Many people who have or exhibit ADD like behavior are comparatively normal. They also have normal skepticism.

Therefore such a person seeking an answer to their problem needs to be able to find information that is presented in a clear and logical fashion. In this manner it reaches them on an intellectual level.

The acceptance on an emotional level is equally important, for aforementioned reasons especially the stigma attached and the fear of thinking they are "crazy".

These forums serve as an invaluable resource to those seeking help worldwide. Yet when someone manages to find them and they click onto Adult ADD they see threads about full moons and mind reading being associated with ADD.

They also see terms referring to those not afflicted as "normals" or "neurotypicals" or the "linear thinkers".

Reading this has the tendency to put people off especially due to the emotional issues they are struggling with. So rather than stay and read all the beneficial information such as posted by McTavish or information on planning budgeting etc. they click off never to return to the detriment of their health.

Again no disrespect to anyone. But I don't believe full moons, mind reading or alienating terms such as "normals" is beneficial to anyone.

you may have a point, but this forum is about support.

there is even a legal/medical disclaimer, and all new or potential members are requested to read the info.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=157866#post157866

anyway, welcome to the forums.

Mike,

For the most part, I have to agree with you. The helpful stuff I've been filtering through. The odd stuff...well...and no offense, it's interesting and all but I find it interesting in the same way I find "The X-Files" interesting. It appeals to me on an "Hmmm....that's different" level. Is there any connection between full moons, daydreams and the whatnot and ADHD? Don't know. I think just about everybody is affected by the full moon and daydreaming is a regular part of life.

Thanks for bring this up Mike and don't give up digging for the nuggets you need...

Eric

We're all about support, tolerance and exploration. I see nothing wrong with keeping an open mind to many different aspects of life which may impact ADD/HD.

Also, I'm nonADD, but after having appreciated some of the perspectives of our members, I do not object being called "normal" or "normie".

I don't think I'm anything really, just me, lucky enough to have met my now best friend who is ADD and lucky enough to meet some fantastic people who are members and moderators here.

Please be sure you acquaint yourself with our ADDF guidlines located at the top of every forum header page, and enjoy our community while you're here.

cs

Mike/NY I do understand what you are saying.
The way I look at threads such as mind reading, and full moons.
Is people are just trying to identify with others who are ADD and learn more about themselves.
The term normals doesn't make sense to me so I personally don't use it.
I prefer to say ADDer and NonADDer.
I guess its just a matter of what we each feel comfortable with.
There is a lot of reading here on the forums and deciding of what we find beneficial for ourselves.
Don't get discouraged I hope you stick with the forums. :)

i'm an undergrad studying biochemistry...

i still dunno much about this field yet...but the nevous system is about neurotransmitters...ADHD is linked to a low level of dopamine...

it's really simple...ADHD is a chemical imbalance in the brain...nothing more...i dun see it as psychological disorder...it's just a biochemical imbalance and if meds can correct the imbalance...great :)

i didn't "induce" the imbalance either....i didn't do anything to my brain to deserve this...ppl with HIV...they didn't practice safe sex and they have to live with the consequence...BUT i didn't create my own ADHD...i believe it's genetic...and i can't perform on sch work as well as others...this is so unfair...

just like ppl can lower their blood cholesterol with lipitor...why can't i use adderall to increase my dopamine level...why there has to be so much controversies with using adderall? can we say that ppl using lipitor r just imagining their cholesterol problems?????

i'm frustrated with the difficulities i have to face...the fundamental question...why do bad things happen to good people?

here's a paragraph from jyi jorunal

http://http://www.jyi.org/volumes/volume11/issue1/articles/patel.html

The neurotransmitter dopamine (DA) is critical to many of the vital functions of daily life, including emotional response, the regulation of movement, and the control of cognition, including attention (Glickstein and Schmauss 2001). Neurons responsible for the release of DA project to the cortex, striatum, hypothalamus, and limbic systems of the brain (Glickstein and Schmauss 2001). In humans, diseases like schizophrenia, Parkinson’s disease, and Attention Deficiency Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) have all been tied to malfunctioned dopaminergic neurotransmission, thus strengthening the correlation between the role of DA receptors and the regulation of behavior and cognition (Schmauss 2002).

You have a valid point, in my opinion. On the other hand, this forum is a place where it is okay to have ADD, or whatever... So people like you and I can let our hair down, and it is all good. Granted, it is not always pretty, or nice, but at least it is a safe haven for us all.

A lot of people here are new at learning to come to terms with it. I know I am a newb. I had no problem with accepting the idea that I had ADD. I was initially dignosed with "add-like symptoms" 10 months ago. I am still fighting for a proper diagnosis. Based on my symptoms and past medical history and family history, I am looking at one of several likely possibilities. Each of them require a slightly different approach in coping and treatment. IF I get it wrong, I will hurt. If I get it right, I have hope.

And my point is ?

This forum has made it possible for me to get lots of information and ideas from many people and has helped me to cope and seek out good medical care. It has made a huge difference for me.

Each of us is different. We have a variety of neurological problems, and our personalities, education, and beliefs vary a lot.

There are people here who are decidedly radical. They feel that add is not a disability. They feel that it is a neurological difference, and any affliction is a result of bad treatment by a callous and ignorant society. There is some truth to this idea.
These people are big on "coming out" and being proud of what they are. A radical notion...

And , of course, there are those who are more traditional in their thinking... that is fine too.

In my opinion, it is all good.

There are also people here who are painfully, and seriously afflicted, and they need all the love and support we can muster.

Furthermore, we are NOT "normal". I am not "normal" and I do not want to be anything other than what I am. I DO want to be healthy. The term "NT" or "neurotypical" is a technical term used in medical journals to label the "average" person, neurologically. If someone with ADHD can be labelled "ADHD, or of some one can be labeld as "high functioning" when mildly autistic, then it is fair, and accurately descriptive, to use "neurotypical" ("NT") to label the general population who are not so "afflicted" as we are.


If you think that ADDers are getting militant, it pales compared to the political and social push the autistics are making in order to get their voices heard in society.

You name it, we have it, and I am glad to see it all in one place.

Just my two cents worth.

ME :D

I mean absolutely no disrespect toward anyone but I've noticed a few things that I believe deserve commenting on.

It took me 15 years since being first told I had ADD to actually believe it. Main reason being is that I've heard so much psychobabble cr*p. On an emotional level it's very difficult to admit to yourself that such asinine and seemingly innocuous behavior is the result of your own innate neurological make-up.

As a result the intellectual portion of my mind at least tried to make amends and rationalize the behavior. Now with the same intellect I've accepted that many negative behavioral characteristics can indeed be the result of a neurological deficit.

The same skepticism I had toward ADD or ADD like behavior is par for the course in society in general. I did not believe it despite repeating the same pattern over and over again.

I don't run around saying I have ADD, most people do not believe it. That's fine. The shame is when someone who has it does not believe it thus precluding any chance of getting help.

Many people suffering from what may be deemed a mental problem do not seek help because they do not want to be labeled as "crazy". Many people who have or exhibit ADD like behavior are comparatively normal. They also have normal skepticism.

Therefore such a person seeking an answer to their problem needs to be able to find information that is presented in a clear and logical fashion. In this manner it reaches them on an intellectual level.

The acceptance on an emotional level is equally important, for aforementioned reasons especially the stigma attached and the fear of thinking they are "crazy".

These forums serve as an invaluable resource to those seeking help worldwide. Yet when someone manages to find them and they click onto Adult ADD they see threads about full moons and mind reading being associated with ADD.

They also see terms referring to those not afflicted as "normals" or "neurotypicals" or the "linear thinkers".

Reading this has the tendency to put people off especially due to the emotional issues they are struggling with. So rather than stay and read all the beneficial information such as posted by Robert McTavish or information on planning budgeting etc. they click off never to return to the detriment of their health.

Again no disrespect to anyone. But I don't believe full moons, mind reading or alienating terms such as "normals" is beneficial to anyone.

Hi Mike:

I consider myself pretty down to earth for a space cadet. I'm not much for fanciful "what if"s when it comes to what is going on in my head. Just the facts, ma'am...

Then again, I am all for tolerance. Everybody needs to find their own truth in their own way, and one of the things that is great about these forums is that there is room for everybody (just about...).

That said, I do sometimes wonder about whether ADD brings gifts as well. I certainly have my failings, but I have some gifts as well. It's pretty common to want to blame our failings on something and claim the good stuff for our own. But I sometimes wonder if some of those gifts came along with my ADD -- or whether they are able to peep through despite it.

I agree with you Mike for the most part, but it's complicated, I suppose. We're a support forum, not a science forum. And there are many different opinions around. I study ADHD like it's a science, because that's what I do. I see it as a disorder, and as a psychologist (not a PhD yet) I study what is normal to learn what is abnormal, and vice versa. Some people here prefer to think of what they have as a difference, something to be celebrated or perhaps cherished.

I may not think that is wise thinking...but at the same time, who am I to judge? If this were a scientific community, and we were all hard-nosed emotionless scientists like I aspire to be, then such thinking would not be tolerated. But the fact is, this is a support forum. We are here to feel good...to get whatever support and aid we need to do so. If we need to think of what we have as a gift, then that's fine, if the end result is we don't beat ourselves up.

A lot of the time, I think to myself "wow there are some delusional people here, don't they see what's wrong with them?" But then I realize, maybe it's what's wrong with me. Why do I care what they think of themselves, or ADHD? They aren't publishing journal articles, they're speaking one to another, and that's fine.

I'll continue my hardnosed, cold demeanor, but it's because that's what works for me. I don't need to feel good, I just need to know what I can. But if, to be happy with themselves, they want to believe it's a difference, not a disorder, or a blessing, not a curse, then I see no harm.

Maybe it will turn some people off, but they'll find someplace else to feel good. Just because there is some silliness on the board doesn't make it any less of a support forum, and it doesn't make the science that McTavish or Gregster or whoever else posts any less scientific.

There are also people here who are painfully, and seriously afflicted, and they need all the love and support we can muster.

Furthermore, we are NOT "normal". I am not "normal" and I do not want to be anything other than what I am. I DO want to be healthy. :DI agree with Speedo here -- I think most people who are serious will find what they're looking for and ignore the rest.

Like he said, we're not normal. To me calling someone normal is a compliment. (I tried very hard to be normal for most of my life and am still working on accepting my differences).

I've appreciated your various posts, MikeNY -- they're interesting and I hope to keep seeing them!:)

I am a pre medical student, so I definitely don't believe in full moons and whatnot. But I believe in letting people believe in what they want to believe (when it's not really harming others).
As for normal, I don't think any one individual in the world is 'normal.' Maybe what people mean by 'normie' is that the 'normies' can function in a certain situation, more efficiently than others; which then would be true.

Mike/NY:

I think you have some good points. But I think the mindreading etc. stuff is a reflection of individuality. Remember that ADDers can be quite creative. And some of the most creative people these days are quite computer saavy.

I also think that we look for metaphors--and some of what you mentioned is--in my view--a creative way of expressing oneself.

I'm 44, and so probably most(but not all) here are younger than I am. But I feel very accepted here.

But behind the symbolism, the people here do understand pain--and that's the first step to empathy.

Anyway, welcome to the forums. I look forward to your future posts.

Sincerely,
DBR

As far as "normal" people, I believe they're using the term to refer to "individuals without a clinical diagnosis of ADHD." In that case, I think it's a easier to type "normal" people. Statistically, it's also correct...normal people are those within the norm, again, not us.

Then again, there's the saying, "Normal's a setting on the washing machine."

i think it just comes down to the things people as individuals enjoy in life... kind of like fishing? no fishing? add forums? no addforums? no what i mean?:):D

i still dunno much about this field yet...but the nevous system is about neurotransmitters...ADHD is linked to a low level of dopamine...

it's really simple...ADHD is a chemical imbalance in the brain...nothing more...i dun see it as psychological disorder...it's just a biochemical imbalance and if meds can correct the imbalance...great :)

The neurotransmitter dopamine (DA) is critical to many of the vital functions of daily life, including emotional response, the regulation of movement, and the control of cognition, including attention (Glickstein and Schmauss 2001). Neurons responsible for the release of DA project to the cortex, striatum, hypothalamus, and limbic systems of the brain (Glickstein and Schmauss 2001). In humans, diseases like schizophrenia, Parkinson’s disease, and Attention Deficiency Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) have all been tied to malfunctioned dopaminergic neurotransmission, thus strengthening the correlation between the role of DA receptors and the regulation of behavior and cognition (Schmauss 2002).
I believe what DFAC001 said. But remember ADHD is just a label that explains a disorder. ADHD is only a disorder when it negatively effects your quality of life.

I did not get diagnosed until I was 33 years old. I feel I was able to deal with the way my brain worked up until I "hit the wall" hard last year.

As far as reading minds and full moons go, these are just observations and opinions that get posted. After all it is a forum. The "reading mind" thing is probably only the ability to pickup on facial expression, tone of voice, and past experience. The "full moon" thing is just an observation and event correlation.

I don't think these things will take away from the hard science and factual information that is posted on ADHD.

I also agree with you Mike.

On several different occasions I have said something similar.

I don't believe anyone gets "censored " in here, as there is a tremendously supportive atmosphere.

What I insist on is the common sense notion that we provide people with the most accurate information possible.

There's a lot of complicated and sometimes conflicting research that has to be sorted through to do that.

Overall though, I think that the Forum does place a premium on accurate information about the science of ADHD.

Accuracy is everything.

thanks again


mctavish23 (Robert)

Mike,

I'm on the fence. I know some people turn around (from this board) and never come back because they feel no credibility. I took the moon thing as tough-in-check on my first visit. In fact, when filling my last precription, the pharmacists said, it'll be a half hour (before adderral would be ready). I said back, no problem - as long as I have it before the next full moon. She didn't laugh. I tell you, some people have no sense of humor whatsoever.

Bob

Hi Mike :) I am very guilty of trying to spice things up with my posts.

I am not offended at all because I see where you are coming from. When I first joined the forum I was in no way interested in the social element of the group. I was looking for positives and comparing member reports for my own information.

Like you, I encountered new terms, contradicting information, and was confused by some of the discussions. I was confused about the mental and neurological elements of adhd.

But as I particpated I began to see that most of what is said is the same only with different terminology. It took some reading. This forum was a supplement to other information I was researching.

Ultimately, I learned about how to get a correct diagnosis, which medicines and treatments are options...I learned about theories of cognitive functioning, and the controversies that accompany public opinion.

I gained over and above enough information to know that adhd does exist and that there are true physical reasons for it's presence.

And I learned most of this first hand from those who were having similar experiences to my own.

As I became more comfortable, I began noticing the different pesonalities of members and their ways of expressing their own interpretations of what they were going through.
I think this is much the same as if you were to join any support group in your home town, whether it be AA or a civic group.

I began to see the human elements...the senses of humor....the ups and downs of member's personal trials.. and began to identify on a more personal level. I received support for any emotional or social problems that the adhd might have been affecting.
I interpreted this as a genuine caring which only contributed postively to the understanding of my new diagnosis.

I particuarly enjoy the thread about full moons because it gives me an insight into the crazy little episodes that a family with adhd encounters.

I don't think the thread is about a full moon at all. Many individuals like to hold superstitions toward the full moon and this is just a fun human interest story disigned to give us insight by playing with those superstitions.

So I will need to disagree with you in that these stories do help me with my personal, emotional, and physical healing process. It's that mind, body, spirit thing.

I hope that I am forgiven for some of my mishaps in posting things that are "out there" or hard to understand....for the most part when my impulses carry me away, I have gently been overlooked.


...I am, however, kind of embarrassed about the "what color is your hair" thread but I reeeally wanted to find out what some of these supportive people look like. Do you think I did this because I have adhd?;)

I hope you stick around. We are all glad you are a member and are interested in educating yourself and others.

~gourmet~

Mike says:
They also see terms referring to those not afflicted as "normals" or "neurotypicals" or the "linear thinkers".

Again no disrespect to anyone. But I don't believe full moons, mind reading or alienating terms such as "normals" is beneficial to anyone.

I don't know if it's a full moon or not, but I knew you were going to say that. Just kidding.

I've struggled with the use of the term "normal". The dictionary definition of normal is "conforming with or constituting an accepted standard, model, or pattern; esp., corresponding to the median, or average of a large group in type, appearance, achievement, function, development, etc.; natural; usual; standard; regular."

Now, in a certain sense, I agree with most of that definition as an accurate description of the "whatchamacallits". But I do have trouble with the word "natural" being used to define "normal" in this case. I don't believe that the "whatchamacallits" can be described as the "natural standard".

The dictionary definition of "natural" is: "of or arising from nature; in accordance with what is found or expected in nature. Produced or existing in nature, not artificial or manufactured. Designating or of a system of classification based on complete structure and characteristics."

I believe, that the qualities that characterize the "whatchamacallits" represent an incomplete model of the healthy, full functioning, natural brain. So in that sense, they are not normal.

The normal brain, in my limited understanding, can think linear and parallel. Can move between the big picture and the details. ETC

I think that "normal" is a healthy, well nourished, developing infant, with access to all functions. And where are they?

Well, I seem to have talked myself back to using the term "neuro typical". Thanks for helping me clear that up.

"Typical" Serving as a type; symbolic. Having or showing the characteristics, qualities, etc. of a kind, class, or group so fully as to be a representative example. (of linear thinking, sorry)

For Gourmet: Blond, mustache, ponytail

...I am, however, kind of embarrassed about the "what color is your hair" thread but I reeeally wanted to find out what some of these supportive people look like. Do you think I did this because I have adhd?;)
I just thought you were running an Internet phishing scam aimed at all those impulsive ADHDer's .:D

By the way ...

Natural Brown (right after I use Just for Men).

The research is very real and very clear in regards to the history and etiologies that make up the current science of ADHD.

We're all about support, tolerance and exploration. I see nothing wrong with keeping an open mind to many different aspects of life which may impact ADD/HD.

Also, I'm nonADD, but after having appreciated some of the perspectives of our members, I do not object being called "normal" or "normie".

I don't think I'm anything really, just me, lucky enough to have met my now best friend who is ADD and lucky enough to meet some fantastic people who are members and moderators here.

Please be sure you acquaint yourself with our ADDF guidlines located at the top of every forum header page, and enjoy our community while you're here.

cs

Amen to that ! Some of the most caring and wonderful people are on this board! ADD, ADHD, or None of The Above..
Nova

ADD is real. ADD is a chalenge. Chalnges are ment to be overcome. By overcoming challenges we become stronger. Strength leads to confidence. Confidence leads to finding your meaning in life. Find that and everything else takes care of itself. This is not to trivialize the challenge but i have to look at it this way or i would just drive myself crazy or into a depression if i let it get to me and some f'ed up nurotransmiters in my frontal lobe will not stop me from doing what only i can do.
Pith