Oh, I don't know what I want to express exactly, but I know I need to.

I have been in a 3-month intensely loving relationship with the most amazing man. We are meant for each other. He says he has ADD. He says it's the gift that is hard to unwrap. He has traveled far in his life in terms of self-improvement and becoming the most creative, loving, passionate person I have ever laid eyes on. He's incredible... and everyone he comes into contact with just loves him. His magnetism is unrivaled. And he is so sincere and has the biggest heart ever. I believe wholeheartedly that we are really GREAT for each other.

That said.. he is starting to drive me a little bonkers on some things. Wouldn't fate have it that a procrastinating ADDer would hook up with a person who is a total planner and mover and shaker when it's time to tackle some task? Poor guy. Poor me!

I just don't understand ADD. Mainly because the issues are different for each ADDer. I have read through posts... and if it isn't an emotional detachment issue, it's a logistical "how are we gonna run the house" issue. And other things. And the degree of the condition seems to be so totally different. With my guy, he has no need for meds.

Without going into detail yet on my issue today, I will say that I predict that if this issue is not addressed productively, I see myself becoming the biggest damn NAG on the face of the earth. Either that, or becoming a silent enabler who eventually has to check into an asylum 10 years down the road. And I know I want to be a loving partner to my sweetie... and support him... and create a special life together. We both have what it takes to do that.

But, I ask... if his procrastination and inability to prioritize TIME and TASKS results in us having to deal with tremendous stress and financial costs, how far do I let him get away with 'just doing the best he can'?

And that's what it is starting to feel like: either I am a nag causing him grief or I am a big mommy who 'will take care of everything.' Ummm... my goal as a 40-something woman is to be a WOMAN, a partner, an equal partner.

So... successful him gets a HUGE job promotion but time is limited on us moving across the USA. Pack up our lives... and start over in a strange new place. He goes to our new city to 'find us a place to live' since we will drive there in 10 days from today. He starts work the day after we arrive. He has not packed or sorted his stuff for the garage sale we HAVE to have. I explained that it was ludicrous to spend 4 or 5 days going there.. intead of getting packed and putting our lives in a box and saying goodbyes to friends, etc. etc. He emphatically explained to me that he absolutely didn't want to stay in a hotel when we move there; that we MUST have a place to land.

Well it's Sunday, 4pm where he is... and he hasn't lifted a finger to find us a place to live. He had all day Friday, Saturday, and today to do it. I have spent HOURS the past few weeks on the internet setting up contacts for places to see and people to talk to. He hasn't acted on one lead. Oh, he is very tired from the flight and all and has a bit of a cold. He has had time to go to 12 step meetings and dinner out with the 12 step people, and lunching with a co-worker. Everything EXCEPT take care of shelter for us.

He flies out tomorrow at 6a.....and arrives home noonish, to begin an intense training session Mon to Friday 12p-to 8pm. The garage sale is Next Saturday. We should be pulling out of dodge next Sunday or Monday at the latest.

And he so emphatically explained that he was not going to let the company push him around.. that he fully intends to do all his goodbyes. He has a million friends.

NO CONCEPT OF TIME!! NONE!!!!!!!

So, when he called me at 1pm his time today, and he was just sitting down for another sociable lunch.... he said he would call me after lunch. I told him to please only call me AFTER YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED YOUR MISSION: Shelter. He was indignant and rude and told me to 'let it go' and not be so controlling. AARRRGG

It is now Sunday 4pm....he had Fri, Sat and all day to today to find us a place to live. Fine that he didn't, but we could have totally gotten packed and organized this weekend. Nope, he had to fly across the country and have lunches and 12 step meetings and really have a grand ole time.

And there is one big heart issue for me. I have a dog. He's old and not ready to be put down. I put down my other 14 year old dog last week. It was time. But I probably wouldn't have done it last week if it were not for this big move. I do feel greatly relieved that my dog is out of pain. So I don't put that on my ADDer. BUT... I have another dog, and the plan was that he couldn't come to our new city with us. I was prepared to give him away... but before my ADDer went on this home-hunting mission... I told him that he really needed to be open to the universe making it possible for us to keep my dog with us. He was down with that.

So... let's say my ADDer somehow finds us even a month's temporary place in the ONE BUSINESS HOUR LEFT TODAY... and it doesn't accept dogs?

This is where I draw the line. He didn't try to make an allowance for something that is so important to me: my precious angel who has been my companion for 12 years. And f it is the ADD that made him procrastinate and not accomplish the ONE TASK.. where he could undeniably say to me: Look, Lopiney, I tried.... we can't have the dog... then it seems incumbent upon me to NOT allow him to affect my life in such a painful way. Sure, he can dick around all he wants.. but I feel justified to tell him: Figure it out... we're taking the dog.

I also told him to tell our company to pay MY way to our new city so that we, as a couple who have BOTH OF OUR LIVES upturned with little planning time, can make decisions together. "Oh no, they won't do that. And trust me, I will take care of everything in terms of housing."

Well, it's a new relationship... and I am learning very quickly that if something has to be done, it will be me doing it. And I think that really sucks. I guess what I really want from him is an admission BEFORE a major task is embarked upon that "Gee honey.... the odds of me actually COMPLETING IT are nil to none. If this is important to you... please take over." I don't mind taking over. But the promises and sincere assurances???? And then the indignation when I ask WTF? Driving me bonkers.

Any input would be appreciated.

PS, I will NEVER tell him about this board. This is my haven. Ya'll are TERRIFIC.

Update:

Well, just talked to my ADDer. It was 4:45pm, and he had time to show our co-worker (who is just there to set the stage for his new job)... the public transit system. Great. Hasn't lifted a finger. Luckily I had posted this cry for help here, because I began to feel the necessity of keeping my life under control and letting HIM deal with it.

He said he was trying to find an apartment locator agent. I calmly told him that I provided that to him via email on Friday... reminded him on Saturday... and reminded him of that early this morning. "Oh. well, I wanted to try a few of them to find the right one." Okay, fine...but on fri and sat were the days to arrange appointments. "But it was raining.. I couldn't do anything on sat." My response, calmly, "Well...what a good time to sit in the hotel and make phone calls to arrange for Sunday appts, eh?"

He became very indignant and said that he didn't want me to just **** him off and make him feel bad about himself. I calmly asked him relinquish the guilt trip immediately.

He explained that we could both work to set up appts during the coming week for places to see when we get there. He said he found a temp furnished place. "Does it take dogs?" "I don't know.. the office was closed on Sunday." D'oh. I explained that I had expended my last ounce of energy on working as a team to find us a place to live, that he had wasted hours of my time, energy, and goodwill. He was indignant about that. Such a quitter I am.

I also told him that I was calm.. that I accept the fact that he just ****ed off 72 hours plus two all-day travel days to come up with nothing. That he just spent $1200 of our company's money for nothing. That he wasted a lot of my time as well the time of the several landlords who expected to hear from him this weekend. BUT, that.... I was not going to give my dog away based on his pure fact-less speculation that a dog in a big city will be undoable. He said, "Well, I don't know if we can have the dog here, Lopiney." I calmly said... "But we are going to have the dog there. You have delivered nothing but speculation in that department and I am not willing to base any heart-wrenching decision on your speculation. Sorry, when we leave (IF we leave), the dog and I are getting in the car. That's my final answer."

I could hear him steaming on the other end of the phone. But, jesus....I have some semblance of serenity back because I made hard decisions and refused to get drawn into his chaotic approach to what is otherwise adult responsibilities.

So, I ask.. is this the price we pay: Lose your serenity by keeping your ADDer feeling good about himself? OR Keep your serenity and be made to feel like you are the most unreasonably harpie in history?

He had to hang up. It is possible that this will end our relationship -- me putting my foot down about a dog. If that ends it, it needs to end.

The issue really is, it seems, of my ADDer either taking responsibility for avoiding normal adult responsibilities.

Ugh.

Just read your post here Lopiney. We were communicating on the spouses board, saw your pop up for a private discussion, clicked ok, then nothing happened. Anyway, you are experiencing almost verbatim what I experienced, particularly the whole moving away from family and friends for his job thing. Such is where I find myself today. We do have so much in common. As you know I have a little one to tend to. I am on PST time, west coast, Canada. Plan to watch the emmy's, if I can and if wee boy goes down as planned. I would most welcome a conversation with you. If you can let me know your email address or some way of contacting you perhaps we can get an opportunity to chat off-board. Hang in there. I'll check back in shortly. Cheers....

Hi Alaska...

Okay.. I sent you a private message. Look at the upper right of this board under where it says Welome Alaska. Under that is a link to PRIVATE MESSAGES. My email is in there.

L

Lopiney,

For what it's worth, you are experiencing some of the most predictable and longterm issues that make it a challenge to get you and your partner on the same page.

I"m not sure that your spouse couldn't benefit from meds, but it is his choice and you will have to decide at some point whether you can live with that.

No surprise your partner is steaming on the other end of the phone, from his perspective, he is probably working very hard to get the essentials done, and all he hears is how he didn't do it your way.

(I'm not saying you don't have a point, I'm just saying it is very possible he has a dramatically different way of looking at the universe than you do)

He probably forgot about the dog thing too, not that he didn't think it was important, but he just likely forgot.

There are lots of tips and tactics to help get tasks assigned to both of you, but you are going to BOTH have to be interested in working on it, continually, and it is something that may improve over time but will NOT disappear.

In the meantime, for your deadlines, I would say that you should reorganize as much as possible so that his deadlines are easy to see and you can handle the fallout if they are not met, and you should keep the critical drop dead ones yourself.

When you get moved and sorted you can come back to the larger picture.

Just some food for thought, good luck!!

cs

Thank you for your feedback, Crime_Scene (love your handle!!!). And I have seen a lot of your posts on here today, and really appreciate the things you have to say.

Oh boy.. you are right... we just got off the phone and he is completely devastated that I apparently don't give him any credit for anything; that there is nothing he can do to make me happy; that, well, we might not be able to go forward together. And he is thinking about that.

I explained that for the first time I realized that ADD was an issue. And, my god, he came up with so many excuses about why he spent three days in a city and did not make one move to find us a place. I started to question myself.

But fact of the matter... his purpose for going there was to find us a place to live. That is the only thing that justified a 5 day trip one week before we have to be on the road for that destination.

I don't know. An ADDer who cannot admit that he dallied around for five days when he could have been on the home front arranging to put our lives to bed at home? And who prides himself on all the information he obtained from the new friends there even in light of the fact that I discovered ALL the same facts two weeks ago? I just don't know.

And I feel like a wicked witch.

I don't think our relationship has enough foundation to weather this one. (He's a bf, not a spouse, btw). I am not willing to ever say: Oh, it's okay that you accomplished nothing on this foray simply because of the undue stress that it puts on both us in getting packed and moved having had him gone for this trip. It's a level of irresponsibility that I find unacceptable. It would be one thing if he showed any recognition of the gravity of it, but he doesn't.

One thing he became certain about is that he taking this job no matter what happens with us. For weeks it was yes, no, yes, no, yes no from him, while I was trying to plan on staying or going. He doesn't empathize with the sheer stress on me with the wafting in the yes we're going, no we're not going for weeks.

Oh well... I feel defeated. He is absolutely worth the effort from the very best woman on earth. But he's taking this job, and I don't see how we can get to even feeling happy with each other before it's time to get in the car and drive across the country together. Our relationship is, egad, only 3 months old.

A cluster-f to the nth degree.

Unfortunately, I have made irreversible decisions which impact my security. I don't make much money. And I gave notice to the landlady, and have to be out of my duplex here in a few days. She rented the place. I am greatly compromised.

Anyways, maybe he will pull a major ADD magician's trick and make this all better. Doubtful.

Ugh.

Lopiney, just read your update. Ouch. Big ouch. The three months thing however...that is about how long my hubby and I were together before he got a new job on the opposite side of the country and I sold my house and quit a very lucrative job so we could move out here together. During the close of that sale we discovered I was pregnant. I did not consider any of it sacrifice, and had never done anything like that before. I was in love. We were in love, still are.

We had many similar battles to what you describe. Especially during times of high stress like a big move. The stories I could tell...we can hardly believe we are still together now. The key difference, at least from what I can glean from your posts, is that my guy would admit to whatever craziness was driving me mad, eventually, and try to make things right. Without that reassurance I would never have stuck it out. Many times I had one foot out the door before he somehow made it right again, made me see it was worth sticking it out, giving it a chance. But it is so very hard at times. If the good times are so good then you have to forever hold on to them, keep them at the front of your mind when everything is going haywire. In our relationship I have been the voice of logic...and yeah, sometimes a nag and I so hate playing that role and he knows it. Eventually, you get into a groove where each knows the other's strengths and allows for them to lead when neccessary. It does not come easy and I think it is always a struggle. But in any relationship, non-ADD couples included, that's a running theme. Not sure if that helps, but I can tell you that we have saved emails sent to each other (his work takes him away sometimes) where I have clearly packed it in. What has helped us is our ability to communicate when the timing is right. Forthright honesty. I never beat around the bush and it sounds like neither do you. Keep that up. Let us know what happens...and good luck. Hang in there.
Cheers...

Oh, thanks Alaska! Well, my sweetie calmed down and gave me a ring a bit ago... and it was a very good conversation. I sent you a real email explaining it a bit more.

I will hold your advice closely:

"If the good times are so good then you have to forever hold on to them, keep them at the front of your mind when everything is going haywire."

AND

"What has helped us is our ability to communicate when the timing is right."

The good times are soooooooo WORTH it. And one thing we realized is that while all this decision-making has been going on, we have been essentially apart for three full weeks, with just four days in between his trips. And we are making the biggest decisions of our lives (the most exciting as well) and trying to put it all together, and we aren't even together to reassure each other. Talk about a toll. He returns tomorrow... and from then on out, we can work better as a team.

Yes, my sweetie mentioned just that: communicate when the time is right. Now that would be a shortcoming with which I came into this relationship. Okay, timing.

Yay, so we both feel pretty good as we head off to bed tonight, and that's a big thing. I will say that had I not had this great board to express my frustration that the entire day's frustrations would have erupted a lot worse than they had. It has been a long, long few weeks and both our lives are changing dramatically, and, well.. it is sure exciting but stressful nonetheless.

Thank you all for your input, and for putting up with me today. My sweetie told me he had ADD.. but this is the first "say what?" moment pretty much, and I have some reading to do!!! And maybe even a support group. Definitely a support group in my new city!!

Hi Lopiney,

It's not really irresponsible, it's more about distraction.

As judgement can be an issue, he will have seen these other things as equally important or if he was doing them, whatever held his interest at the moment would have felt more important at the time. You can't blame him for this, really it is an ADD thing.

Draven posted this blurb a while ago, but I think it addresses the question you had about why he would be giving you "excuses" on why he dallied.


This is how it goes: I decide to wash the car; I start toward the garage and notice the mail on the table.


Ok, I'm going to wash the car. But first I'm going to go through the mail. I lay the car keys down on the desk, discard the junk mail and I notice the trashcan is full.

Ok, I'll just put the bills on my desk and take the trashcan out, but since I'm going to be near the mailbox anyway, I'll pay these few bills first.

Now, where is my checkbook? Oops, there's only one check left. My extra checks are in my desk.

Oh, there's the coke I was drinking. I'm going to look for those checks. But first I need to put my coke further away from the computer; oh maybe I'll pop it into the fridge to keep it cold for a while.

I head towards the kitchen and my flowers catch my eye, they need some water.

I set the coke on the counter and uh oh! There are my glasses. I was looking for them all morning! I'd better put them away first.

I fill a container with water and head for the flower pots - - Aaaaaagh!

Someone left the TV remote in the kitchen. We'll never think to look in the kitchen tonight when we want to watch television so I'd better put it back in the family room where it belongs.

I splash some water into the pots and onto the floor, I throw the remote onto a soft cushion on the sofa and I head back down the hall trying to figure out what it was I was going to do?

End of Day: The car isn't washed, the bills are unpaid, the coke is sitting on the kitchen counter, the flowers are half watered, the checkbook still only has one check in it and I can't seem to find my car keys!

When I try to figure out how come nothing got done today, I'm baffled because I KNOW I WAS BUSY ALL DAY LONG!!!


I really hope you take the time asap to bury yourself in learning about ADD/HD, it will really improve your ability to handle the challenges on an ongoing basis now and in the future.

You'll find lots of support here too, so feel free to ask questions and read, sounds like you've already started.

PS. It's only 3 months and you've had to make major decisions, most relationships would be a little stressed by this.

If you face the situation with doubt in your heart you will not deal with it as effectively as if you go with a positive attitude.

Can you reoganize some tasks as I suggested in my previous post? Just to get over the hump.



cs

Such a wonderful post from Draven. I agree you have to immerse yourself in the ADD literature, this board, go to meetings if you can. It's such a strange and overwhelming disorder and affects just about every part of an ADDer's life. You're into time management, getting things done, being effecient, etc. and I think everyone here would tell you that you can't push them into a schedule. Encourage, etc., but you can't make them toe any line. They're on a different time schedule. They'll have the best intentions in the world -- then, read Draven's post. I also agree with the part that this doesn't change. I've only been "exposed" for three years, but I believe it. Moving across country after three months -- what stress and you have my sympathy. Maybe there are some other options for you for a while?

I really hope you take the time asap to bury yourself in learning about ADD/HD, it will really improve your ability to handle the challenges on an ongoing basis now and in the future.

You'll find lots of support here too, so feel free to ask questions and read, sounds like you've already started.

PS. It's only 3 months and you've had to make major decisions, most relationships would be a little stressed by this.

If you face the situation with doubt in your heart you will not deal with it as effectively as if you go with a positive attitude.

Can you reoganize some tasks as I suggested in my previous post? Just to get over the hump. CS -- Oh I love the Draven post. Recognize that. And the bottom line...the person who was busy all day... their entire template was about being considerate and productive. Ya can't blame someone, anyone for trying!

I also ran across a post in another older thread where you posted the article on Detachment with Love. Saved it to my hard drive. Now that my ADDer is finally back home, I feel better about everything. I was off the mark. He did not commit a crime against humanity!

I fully intend to immerse myself with information about ADD. And I compare my guy to a non-ADDer and there is no comparison. My guy is hands down the most amazing person in the world.

And, yes, I made a conscious decision to reorganize tasks. I do the detail work: the phone calls, getting in to sign papers for whatever, getting pricing on things -- the things that require lots of steps and total concentration. He gets the broad tasks. Though I can't think about what those are at the moment. Maybe just showing up when it's time to leave? lol

Hi Alagirl! Thanks for your post. Meetings? I will look for some! I have been told about an exellent support group in my new city, and will hook up with them when I get there.

And, you know, if things were reversed, he would go the distance for me. And I would sure be grateful that he loved me enough to do so.

Shoot... the entire situation feels ameliorated right now -- since he is safely back in town, snoozing away in the other room. I am not perfect (understatement), and, well, if I were doing this move by myself, I would be totally stressed and overwhelmed. Sure is nice to have someone on this journey with me -- someone to hug and to laugh with about things. And that is truly the gift: I have a loving partner. And he is the one who has made this whole adventure possible in the first place. Where the heck was my gratitude? Sheesh.

Thanks y'all!!

Oh, and in the broader spectrum of life lessons, one thing that this whole experience offers me is a chance to become less black and white -- to grow and evolve emotionally, to unleash my own creative spirit. He offers me all of that. Shoot, if I were with a non-ADDer, he would be posting somewheres about his g/f not being as easy going as he first thought! What does that say about me? uh huh.

I also need to discover what it is that I offer him because I am not really sure. I just know that I make his heart jump for joy. And that feels damn good.

Really, the critical mass occurred mainly because we had been inseparable and then he was gone for 3 weeks and all these decisions have been made. Neither of us had the day to day support of the other. What couple wouldn't have trouble with that scenario? Enough of that noise!

I don't know if you are still checking replies to your original post, but I just read it and all I wanted to say was "Run For Your Life" and while you are running, read "Delivered From Distraction" by Dr. Hallowell. Great chapters to the partners of those with ADD. I have been married to my husband for 10 years, and have known him for almost almost 20.

It was the most intense, soul gratifying, best sex ever, courtship and first couple of years of marriage EVER, EVER. Take your breath away intensity. But as you will read in literature, sometimes a light switch goes off, and they do not initiate sex anymore. They are nice guys, but that part is over, so let's go buy a puppy, or a new house, or let's get a hobby and become an auxiliary police officer.

I have been reading, fighting, reading, fighting to recapture some semblance of a life. I am told to adapt and I have adapted almost to the point of non-existence. NO TIME MANAGEMENT, NO FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT, AND NO DISCUSSING IT EITHER. ADD folks tend to blame others globally for their issues. My husband is clever, people love him, look past his lateness and "scatterbrained" behavior. I have turned into his mother, simply because I am no longer his lover. He gives love a lot of lip service, but would rather stay up late, and watch TV. And just think he's on Adderall. He says it helps with his work. B---S---!

I don't know what else to say. I married for lust, and that part is gone, and now I am taking care of and feeling frustrated much of the time. Unless he is doing the talking about whatever is of interest to him, he's not there. He pretends to listen, but his responses indicate he has no idea what I just said a lot of the time. However, other times he is a fabulous communicator and really gets what I'm saying.

We have been in so many different couples counseling and nothing has changed. We are trying a contract now whereby I lay off "overseeing" what he does, and he comes to bed 4 out of 7 nights. I never thought it would come to this.

Go with your guts about what you are seeing and feeling. It does not get better unless they really put all of their energy into changing. The "soul mate" feeling goes away leaving you frustrated and outraged a lot!

Oh, and in the broader spectrum of life lessons, one thing that this whole experience offers me is a chance to become less black and white -- to grow and evolve emotionally, to unleash my own creative spirit. He offers me all of that. Shoot, if I were with a non-ADDer, he would be posting somewheres about his g/f not being as easy going as he first thought! What does that say about me? uh huh.

I also need to discover what it is that I offer him because I am not really sure. I just know that I make his heart jump for joy. And that feels damn good.

Really, the critical mass occurred mainly because we had been inseparable and then he was gone for 3 weeks and all these decisions have been made. Neither of us had the day to day support of the other. What couple wouldn't have trouble with that scenario? Enough of that noise!
Lopiney, now you are SO getting it!

You go girl!!!!

Keep posting, we'd love to hear your progress

cs

I've been married to an ADD'r for 25 years and I have to agree with Pwardng, because we appear to be living the same lives.
It' appears the only responsibility my guy can handle is his job. Thank goodness for that. But we have moved about every three years since we've been married and one year we moved 3 times in 6 months. Very hard on the kiddo's not to mention myself. I have had to quit every job I've had to follow him. THe kids are now gone and I'm starting over in a new job. I'm working my way up in it and if he chooses to relocate again he's on his own. I have had to assume all the finances and take carae of all business matters because he just can't seem to either initiate taking care of anything or follow thru on it. He says he's taken care of stuff and I find out after something happens that he hasn't. He doesn't want to discuss any issues dealing with him or his ADD. He's been telling me he's trying for 25 years now........ He got his diagnosis about two years ago and I thot great... he's not an idiot, he's got a brain thing going on. Well, he's chosen to do nothing to help himself and ADd is yet another subject we can't discuss. I know the things he does is because of his ADD but it does not make it easier for me. He still does the most unbeleavable things and I'm supposed to just get over it. Our lives have slowly seperated over the years and about the only thing left is to be in seperate bedrooms. And what makes it harder, he doesn't get it. We have not had a real conversation probably in years and he dosn't even notice. I think he likes it that way. I don't nag him any more. He's is on his own. Gone are the dreams of our life together. I worked really hard on the "we" and not "I" when we were first together. I am now back to "I" because the "we" is gone. And he appears to not even notice. Never thot I could be lonely with this man, but I am. Beleave it or not this is not a vent, this is my reality. And 25 years ago he was my soul mate and he has slowly sucked the joy of our marriage right out of me. And if you ask him, he will tell you he has a perfect marriage. The wife might be a tad depressed but she'll get over it.

Sooz. I agree your husband would probably say he has an excellent relationship, but he would also say you are the best wife ever, because you put up with his ADD different behaviour and he probably values that like you wouldn't believe.

Still, if you are not having decent discussions, then I think you should insist on them, it is really not acceptable to be unable to discuss issues or plans or anything else of significance in a relationship.

No subject should be taboo, if it is important to one person then it is important to both, otherwise it is not a partnership.

I'm always in favour of a 3rd party counsellor though, if skilled in handling relationship/ADD issues.

My 2 farthings

cs

Sooz. I agree your husband would probably say he has an excellent relationship, but he would also say you are the best wife ever, because you put up with his ADD different behaviour and he probably values that like you wouldn't believe.

Still, if you are not having decent discussions, then I think you should insist on them, it is really not acceptable to be unable to discuss issues or plans or anything else of significance in a relationship.

No subject should be taboo, if it is important to one person then it is important to both, otherwise it is not a partnership.

I'm always in favour of a 3rd party counsellor though, if skilled in handling relationship/ADD issues.

My 2 farthings

cs

I appreciate yours, and everyone else input more than anyone can know. These discussion issues is what I am trying to work on and I gotta say it's not an easy task with this guy. If I had to rate it, I would say it's a number one problem. He avoids conflict of any kind at all costs. And everything in life will work it's self and who needs plans, what happens happens ....etc, etc........
They don't seem to go anywhere yet I will try, try again. Counselling didn't go over to well the last time. I stayed with it for a while but the theme was leaning toward me leaving him (after getting him helP). Couldn't agree with that, (the leaving part)yet. And he doesn't think he needs help. He'll just try harder. And the harder he trys the worse things he does. This past year he has been doing alot of the house cleaning and I asked him what's up with that? And he said I had asked him to help more. The funny part is, I had asked him many times when the kids were small and I was working - the kids are now grown and out on their own. The not funny part, is that how long it takes for something to sink in???????? It's only been two years since I asked for 15 minutes of quality conversation a day. Am I too impatient? He says by wanting 15 min of quality conversation I am putting too much pressure on him. So I backed off, and there is nothing. Some chit chat here and there but that is it. I am really at a loss as to what to do and I read so many great suggestions from so many people and I try to implement them and they go nowhere. So I really don't know what to do but ignore him so I don't go insane. It's not fun. I want to be a success story! I want to be happy when and if I celebrate 30, 40, 50 years of marriage. I wish somebody could wave a magic wand over me.......

Maybe he doesn't need to try harder, he needs to try something different.

Ok. Just had this little idea. Its a bit different, but let it roll in your mind for a while, maybe.

I remember a mother had a really tough time trying to motivate her son to do some homework. She used to "nag" him and be on him all the time and it was wearing them both out.

One day she decided to flip the coin and she said to him: you can only do your homework for 10 minutes, then you will have to stop.

so the lad started it and at 10 minutes his mom told him to stop. he said, well I didn't get to finish and she said, never mind you can't do any more, and closed his books.

It didnt' take long before he was champing at the bit to do the homework.


Natch, this is for a younger person and I've never tried it on anyone let along a student or a grown up or ADD person, but I do know that even though it is sometimes not welcome, structure, and consequences really help many ADD folks in keeping on task.

Hopefully some ADD folk will either support or refute this or maybe offer some of their own "most effective" tips.

cs.

Natch, this is for a younger person and I've never tried it on anyone let along a student or a grown up or ADD person, but I do know that even though it is sometimes not welcome, structure, and consequences really help many ADD folks in keeping on task.
Structure can be highly resented or highly appreciated, depending on how it's presented. Basically, I think I need to have a stake in it. Like "dump icewater on me if I'm not up by 7:30."

I'd be fine with getting my ice bath, which would probably be pretty often. But if someone were to impose something on me without my consultation or consent, I'd probably fight it no matter how sensible it was. Can we say problems with authority?

The problem would come, of course, when I didn't think something was a problem, but the other person did. I think the biggest challenge in Sooz's case is that only she perceives the problem; her husband thinks everything's peachy.

thanks Uminchu, excellent point.

How does your partner let you know if something is not alright and is that normally effective?

Do you have any suggestions for Sooz that might work better? I agree her husband is not "getting" it.

cs

How does your partner let you know if something is not alright and is that normally effective?
I'll usually admit pretty readily when I'm doing something wrong. I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that locking the doors isn't very effective when the windows are left open.

My problem would be in finding a solution that I believed I could deal with, and wasn't too much burden on my wife.

In this case, my wife started calling me to remind me that I had to leave in 15 minutes, to close the windows, make sure there are no faucets running, etc. Then I started adding Outlook alarms, telling me to do these things. But I never considered my wife's calls nagging because I was part of the process.

Do you have any suggestions for Sooz that might work better? I agree her husband is not "getting" it.
I hate to say it, but I see what her therapist was getting at when she mentioned separation/divorce. That might be what is needed to shake this guy out of his silver cloud.

Ok, right on. That would be the "consequences" concept, which might be very important in Sooz's situation.

What do you think, Sooz?

Hi again C_S... hello to Umi and Pward and Sooz.

Interesting discussion. I read through these recent posts last night.. and had a knee jerk reaction and thought better about not posting right away. I slept on it. And I am stuck with the very same feeling/thought I had initially.

Aside from ADD, there is a such thing as a BAD MARRIAGE. Like a lot of 'em.

Pwards... the description of your marriage absolutely mirrors the marriage I might have well been in today, if I had married a past love. Thank god I didn't. He was in no way ADD. Boy did he and I have a good first year (of 5 years) together. Oh the lust, the passion, the infatuation that we called SOUL MATE material. It was lust and a bit of desperation to be loved at key times in both of our lives. Long story short: I stayed in that relationship allowing him to ignore me, lose interest in the sexual passion arena, put everything and everyone (usually himself) over me and us, and basically treat me like a speck of lint. I used to joke with a friend: Yeah.. I feel like I could fall over dead with my head going splat right into my dinner soup at the table and he wouldn't miss a bite!

That wasn't ADD. That was a man who did not hold me in high regards -- he would rather just have me there (to do errands maybe?) so that he didn't have to feel like he was 'alone'. God knows we broke up and got back together again over and over again (I was dumb!)... and he was on the trail for another mate ASAP every damn time. He just couldn't be 'alone.' Yet what was I doing? Trying to recapture Summer 1998 -- for five long years to no avail. I lost myself. It has taken me 2.5 years to get my life groove back. Basically... close to 10 years wasted on what? A lustful summer! Nothing more.

And that's when I started exploring the whole concept of mature love. All new unions start out with that infatuation and lust and all that. But.... we gots to be smart, ladies! If it doesn't show signs of evolving MATURE LOVE (empathy, unconditional love, respect, compromise) EARLY ON... we's gotta call those relationships what they are: moments of sheer delight in the post-sexual revolution years.

That just doesn't have anything to do with ADD. I can't believe that. No, I haven't read 'the' books (yet!).

And, Sooz, did you know that statistically widowers (the men who lose their wives to death) are more likely to marry within a year? And that widows are more likely to NOT re-marry? It ain't cause the widows are so love lorn about losing their soul mate! Heck no! And it ain't cause the widowers are just love junkies? It's cause men benefit from marriage like no woman ever would. Imagine PAYING hard cold cash for the services that a wife provides? The widowers discover the true 'loss' of services in a flash... and they find a new service professional: practically for free!

Women who are unmarried live longer than women who are married. Laboring sun up to past sundown will kill ya faster.

Men who are unmarried die younger. Having to DO EVERYTHING for yourself also tires the ole body down.

I know I am new to the whole ADD thing. But I just don't see my guy relinquishing his lifetime interests in playing acoustic blues guitar, avid photography, painting and other art activities, collecting models, piloting hot air balloons..... or even sex (sans us having problems that a lot of couples face that kills passion.. and, yes, that could very well end up being the ADD issues).

Call me naive but I could be in the SAME marriage as Pwards and Sooz if I had just kept my mouth shut and smiled more with that other guy......

I was talking with another friend. I have PTSD... which I dealt with successfully and life issued another slap of it... and now I pretty much have two layers of it with which to contend. Not everything to do with my shortcomings stems from that. I can imagine that former guy posting about how my PTSD has made us have a horrible relationship. That would be pretty absurd. And even MORE absurd would be if I continuously blamed my PTSD on us being not being happy and not being able to recapture Summer 1998.

Oh, another statistic. Well, not a statistic. But did you know that there is a common variable in people who grow to be really, really old and really, really joyful and happy an really, really healthy... I mean REALLY HEALTHY (as in looking 55 when you are 90!). DANCING. Soft shoe. Square Dance. Ballroom. Dances that require a PARTNER.

I would hope that if I find myself all single again that the first stop I would make would be to a DANCE STUDIO! Oh yeah. Actually... I think me and my new love might need to take some dance lessons when we get moved to our new city. He was adamant that he didn't dance from the get-go. I was all: "Fine. I don't mind dancing by myself." On our first date, we ended up at a street fair/party and there was a blues band playing. I sashayed on out there... and he followed (I told him he didn't have to... I am very independent). Well.. we tripped the lights fantastic. Yeah, he's got a move to bust on the dance floor. Best.Date.Ever.

Yep, Dance classes for Lopiney and Pila!

Good god, Pward and Sooz... I just feel soooo bad that you each have 20-25 years of being treated like a speck of lint. I just want you each to take the bull by the horns and find JOY in spite of your men. If I were rich (or even just financially secure!), I would buy you each 20 dance classes. Today. What's that saying? Dance like no one's looking!

And that's when I started exploring the whole concept of mature love. All new unions start out with that infatuation and lust and all that. But.... we gots to be smart, ladies! If it doesn't show signs of evolving MATURE LOVE (empathy, unconditional love, respect, compromise) EARLY ON... we's gotta call those relationships what they are: moments of sheer delight in the post-sexual revolution years.
Yeah, yeah, quoting me-self!

But let me ask: Does ADD preclude a person from being truly empathetic, expressing unconditional love, respect and compromise?

Tell me now. Beause I *am* listening to you fellow troopers.

But let me ask: Does ADD preclude a person from being truly empathetic, expressing unconditional love, respect and compromise?
Short answer:
yes.
Long answer: Aside from this pesky neurological disorder thingy, we are just normal people with the normal range of feelings. I will certainly say that it is possible for an ADDer to have and do those things.

I feel my Shylock soliloquy coming on:
If you prick me, do I not bleed?
:)

oh. Not liking the short answer. Not liking it one bit.

Oh nooooooooooooooooooooo.

Okay, next question: What is the difference between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and ADD?

oh. Not liking the short answer. Not liking it one bit.

Oh nooooooooooooooooooooo.

Okay, next question: What is the difference between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and ADD?
Whoops -- the short answer was supposed to be "no." That's probably an ADD thing. :D

Phwew!!!!!! Thanks for checking back on the thread! lol

Yes, big difference between 'preclude' and "can they not be....?"

Thanks!

Yeah.. I guess with all things romantic, it's about risking and taking that leap. I think I will stay the course.

Lopiney: I do so agree with the dancing idea. I go once a week -- I meet a guy I"ve known for 15 years. My guy doesn't dance, his fiancee doesn't really either. Lucky us, neither of them feels weird about it. So we go on Thursday to a country/western dance hall and have so much fun. I got my guy to dance once -- down in Louisiana after a couple of beers. I keep hoping he'll loosen up (he's got great rhythm), let go, and not be so afraid of what people will think. It's incredibly freeing and brings me great joy. When I was single, I took lots of dance classes, actually never met anyone but had a great time.

Okay, next question: What is the difference between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and ADD?
What an interesting question! I immediately thought they had nothing in common but upon further review relized that it must look amazingly similar in some aspects. Huh. I need to consider this more.

BTW Lopiney, I wish you the very best in your growing relationship. It will be tough, but learning about things from 'our' viewpoint will hopefully give you the tools to find solutions that work for both of you.

Craig

Having had a relationship with an NPD man, there are substantial differences.

I'd pick my ADD friend any day, he has a heart of gold and would never deliberately hurt or manipulate me to feed his ego. He actually LIKES women whereas an NPD man does not: he actually fears and loathes women.

An NPD man likes to get into a woman's head and twist her mind and manipulate her to his immense satisfaction and secure his narcissistic supply, and it's no laughing matter.


http://samvak.tripod.com/6.html

What an interesting question! I immediately thought they had nothing in common but upon further review relized that it must look amazingly similar in some aspects. Huh. I need to consider this more.

BTW Lopiney, I wish you the very best in your growing relationship. It will be tough, but learning about things from 'our' viewpoint will hopefully give you the tools to find solutions that work for both of you.

Craig
Hi Craig. You know.. I honestly think that growing and learning things from 'ya'll's" viewpoint will only create a wonderful garden. I believe that. You ADDers are really special. So special that you seem different from most of us.

I look at my sweetie and I think: special, special, special!!! How lucky am I!!!

Having had a relationship with an NPD man, there are substantial differences.

I'd pick my ADD friend any day, he has a heart of gold and would never deliberately hurt or manipulate me to feed his ego. He actually LIKES women whereas an NPD man does not: he actually fears and loathes women.

An NPD man likes to get into a woman's head and twist her mind and manipulate her to his immense satisfaction and secure his narcissistic supply, and it's no laughing matter.


http://samvak.tripod.com/6.html
Yep, C_S.... I started researching NPD after I wrote that idiotic and INSULTING question. (Insulting to ADDers. I apologize!).

NPD people are cruel. Well, put it this way: there was never a human on EARTH who was ever considered evil who would not also be considered NPD. Hitler, for example.

I regret very much that I even asked the question!! Mea culpa.

Yeah, I know all about SAM VAK. Whoa. Totally forgot about that guy. Had a friend who had gotten involved with an NPD. She's probably in an asylum right now. Really evil. Ugh.

Apologies for even suggesting such a comparison to ADDers.

Yep, C_S.... I started researching NPD after I wrote that idiotic and INSULTING question. (Insulting to ADDers. I apologize!).

I regret very much that I even asked the question!! Mea culpa.
...
Lopiney, I wasn't insulted in the least. Most of us have gone our entire lives being misunderstood for saying and asking bizarre things. It's pretty much how we learn. You didn't mean anything by it, you were looking for answers. That's quite okay in my book.

Be well,

Craig

Thanks, Craig.

Well, misunderstood or not, ADDers should not be compared to NPDs. I am glad you were not insulted... but after I reminded myself of the NPD traits via google, I realize how far off the mark I was.

You be well too, Craig!!

--Lopiney

PS: the whole job transfer thing across the country is now history. Probably a good thing my sweetie didn't sign any leases. And it was the right decision for him to turn the job offer down. So, we have new challenges ahead -- but much simpler. Life has been a whirlwind...for me and practically everyone I know these days!

Lopiney,

this news sounds like you have a chance to catch your breath, and how nice that will be, I really hope it helps you both!

cs

The problem would come, of course, when I didn't think something was a problem, but the other person did. I think the biggest challenge in Sooz's case is that only she perceives the problem; her husband thinks everything's peachy.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
I have to add that my husband is the kindest, gentle, hardworking, loves me to no end kind of a guy. I have never, and I repeat never, felt that he did not love me in all of t he 27 years we have been together. I accept and have no problem with many of his ADD traits, but there are some that over the years have just plain worn me out. I think if something is really bothering you, it's gotta be brought up and and that's what I've been doing, but there is so much resistence on his part, because he doesn't recognize the problems.

Hence, the beginning of our (or I guess mine) problems. I'm looking at a new stage in our life, kids gone, just him and me and what are we going to do with the rest of our life scenario. I feel like I'm the bus driver and his is a passenger. ANd I'm thinking, come on up and grab the wheel with me, and it's not happening.

The good news is I haven't been feeling like running him over lately! This past month he has been consistenly keeping track of his debits and entering them
within a day or two into the checkbook. The ugly side of me says " how long will this last this time" and the good side says do I praise him profusely for doing this? If he was a child I would say yes but he is an adult and knows this is what he's supposed to do. I'm am going to try the praise and see if this lasts longer.

And dancing - this is a good thing! After many years of him saying no way,
he is now saying he thinks he could. Just got to work out logistics of both of us having the same time off together. This is something I have been looking forward to.