I also posted this on the college/university forum, but wasn't sure if people there would be interested or able to relate.
I was diagnosed (or diagnosed myself - I'm finishing a degree in clinical psychology) one year ago and have been taking adderall XR (30 mg) during that time. However, because the adderall interferes with my sleep and makes alcohol, cigarettes, and pot seem extra attractive in the evenings, I just started Strattera and have been feeling nauseated and sluggish, which does not enhance my motivation to work on this beast of a project. At present I am working on the first draft of my dissertation. It is an evil process. I'm a pretty good writer, but my writing process is verrrry slow and torturous because I am sort of anal-retentive when I write (perhaps a product of having written so many papers at the last minute, so what I wrote had to be good the first time) and I'm constantly going over what I've written and trying to perfect it. This interrupts my thought process, so I feel like I'm constantly starting over - not great when motivation and procrastination are issues for me.
The sheer length of the dissertation is just overwhelming. Though I have about 50 pages written, I probably have another 50-70 to go, and I already feel burned out and exhausted. I love the field and doing psychotherapy, so I know the effort will be worth it in the end, but it's hard to keep that carrot at the forefront of my mind when I start feeling overwhelmed and dispirited. Also, I am a very social creature, so sitting alone in my office for hours on end, staring at a screen, just sucks. I've thought about going to a coffee shop or something to work, but the scope of my project makes it difficult to transport to a different locale (lots of notes, articles, books, etc, that I need to have on hand).
I would love to hear from other people who can relate, either to the OCD writing style stuff, grad school trauma, or whatever else strikes you.
Thanks!

I remember this problem in college... I remember it all too well. :(

I had two years of procrastinating over my thesis. The problem I had was that I had a lot of information but could not organize my thoughts well enough to put it in perspective and do anything meaningful with it. Eventually, I made a last ditch effort at a workable method and produced a 420 page thesis.

The way I did it was to focus on the result, and not on the problem. I also hyperorganized my workspace and my work flow so that all I had to do was stick to the procedure and crank out the thesis. This was "Science by the numbers".. think of it as a really big fill in the blank essay... :eek:

To do this, I had to design a method. I Wrote a written method and I declared it to be the rules for collecting my data and producing the draft of my thesis. Once I had the draft it was just a matter of revising it and dealing with the margin gestapo at the library. :p

Once I had a written method down I adhered to it and simply kept working until the job was done. The work was easy, but there was a lot of it, and it consumed my life for months. Emotionally, it was very hard, but It paid off. I graduated and ended up with a great job that I like a lot. ;)

Me :D



I also posted this on the college/university forum, but wasn't sure if people there would be interested or able to relate.
I was diagnosed (or diagnosed myself - I'm finishing a degree in clinical psychology) one year ago and have been taking adderall XR (30 mg) during that time. However, because the adderall interferes with my sleep and makes alcohol, cigarettes, and pot seem extra attractive in the evenings, I just started Strattera and have been feeling nauseated and sluggish, which does not enhance my motivation to work on this beast of a project. At present I am working on the first draft of my dissertation. It is an evil process. I'm a pretty good writer, but my writing process is verrrry slow and torturous because I am sort of anal-retentive when I write (perhaps a product of having written so many papers at the last minute, so what I wrote had to be good the first time) and I'm constantly going over what I've written and trying to perfect it. This interrupts my thought process, so I feel like I'm constantly starting over - not great when motivation and procrastination are issues for me.
The sheer length of the dissertation is just overwhelming. Though I have about 50 pages written, I probably have another 50-70 to go, and I already feel burned out and exhausted. I love the field and doing psychotherapy, so I know the effort will be worth it in the end, but it's hard to keep that carrot at the forefront of my mind when I start feeling overwhelmed and dispirited. Also, I am a very social creature, so sitting alone in my office for hours on end, staring at a screen, just sucks. I've thought about going to a coffee shop or something to work, but the scope of my project makes it difficult to transport to a different locale (lots of notes, articles, books, etc, that I need to have on hand).
I would love to hear from other people who can relate, either to the OCD writing style stuff, grad school trauma, or whatever else strikes you.
Thanks!

HStarr, I can relate on several points. I tried Strattera first since it was supposed to have fewer side effects, but found it didn't help -- possibly because it completely screwed my ability to stay asleep for more than 20 minutes at a time. Recently, I've been on Adderall XR, and that's working better.

Though I'm no longer in college, I am a writer by profession, and procrastination is one of my biggest enemies. I can tell that you're a good writer just by what you've written here, and speaking as someone who's done this for years, I can tell you that it's not such a bad thing to "edit as you go." In the end, it can you save time and give you a clearer picture of how to get your point across. I'm constantly backing up and substituting words or phrases -- even in this post! But I've learned to look at this ability as a gift, not a curse.

If you find that you are getting lost when you take off on an editing tangent, try jotting down your thoughts about where you were heading just before you diverged -- or if you're on a roll but you know the paragraph/phrase/word you just finished wasn't quite "there," you can highlight that area so you'll remember to revisit it later. I tend to go wherever my inspiration is the strongest -- sometimes it's backwards, sometimes forwards, sometimes a whole cut-and-paste reorganization. With really large projects, I may do an outline first, but I'm still flexible about reorganizing or adding/subtracting/rewriting stuff as I go.

Good luck with your thesis! And give yourself credit for getting through a significant chunk of it so far!

Hstarr , Speedo & Fiji - wow! It was exciting to read your posts, because I write like all 3 of you.

Like Hstarr I have a tendency to go back over what I've written and do editing and revising as I go. Sometimes I think this takes longer, and also I have wondered if it's from being under the time crunch or turning things in late that I wanted to make sure they were good. I've been working with my therapist about this tendency toward perfectionism and how to know when something is good enough.

Like Speedo I often do more research than is necessary (out of my own curiosity and drive to learn and absorb and process the material before I can write about it, or out of some perfectionism) and then can get overwhelmed by all the info I have and have a hard time organizing it and synthesizing it into a coherent paper.

Like Fiji I will edit as I go, even in msg board posts, and may jump around in the document to where I feel the most inspiration at the moment. When writing a paper or a sermon I electronically highlight paragraphs that I've hurriedly typed and know need to be expanded or tidied up so I remember to go back and polish them. I also sometimes move these various chunks around. I like the turquois and lime green highlight colors in MSWord the best because they stand out better than the yellow but you can still read the black text. How nice to be told from a professional writer that this isn't necessarily a bad approach. :) I normally try to get some kind of an outline/framework worked out with headings for the main topics or questions I'm supposed to address in the paper so that I don't leave anything out.

I'm sorry I don't have a lot of advice on writing a dissertation, but I am working on a Master's (I'm in seminary working on an M.Div. - in my final year of a 3-year program) so I can relate to some of the Grad School trauma. ;) In fact I had a bizare experience of writer's block in the spring where everytime I would sit down to write, even though I had done some research and kind of knew what I wanted to say, I would feel incredibly overwhelmed and "frozen". Which ended up first with extensions and then those turned to incompletes. I was a stress ball. In April I started seeing a therapist who came recommended from an Alum to try and figure out if ADD was playing a role. Tomorrow I'm planning to take Adderall XR for the first time - I really waffled between starting with it or with Strattera, I've never been on meds before (unless you count antibiotics, cold medicines, and pain killers after dental work). I'm sorry you've been feeling nauseated and sluggish on the Strattera. I hope that is temporary. Like you I'm also very social and an extrovert. The first week of school I sequestered myself in my apartment working on incompletes that had to be finished and turned in. I felt cut off from the community here, and missed the interaction that could have been taking place with the incoming class getting to know them, as well as catching up and chatting with my classmates and the class behind us.

Here's something that may help with the dissertation: My therapist said that he also struggles with completing projects, so when working on his dissertation he would set artificial/intermediate deadlines with his advisor and told his advisor that he had to hold him to those, and that seemed to help him get through bit by bit. I'm not sure if that's something that would work in your situation. If the remaining 50 pages seems overwhelming maybe you can break them into 5-page chunks and set deadlines for those chunks with your advisor or something?

Even though I don't have a ton of writing advice for you, maybe it will be helpful to know you're not alone. One last note: look at all you have accomplished! You've gotten all the way through the Ph.D. program to the point of the dissertation and that is already half-written. That's quite the accomplishment, and you should be proud of that. And if you can write the first 50 pages, then you have the knowledge and talent to write the remaining 50 or so pages. Hang in there, you can do it!

Peace, bythesea

Hi. You are totally not alone! I'm getting my PhD . . . dissertation will definitely have the word ADHD somewhere in the title (I guess we study what we know, don't we ;) ).

Unfortunately, procrastination seems to my middle name. In fact, right now I'm supposed to be writing the discussion for a paper we're trying to publish. . . . So of course I am here responding to your post :rolleyes:

I write similarly to most of those who responded. I start out writing and rewriting each sentence until it says *exactly* what I want it to (and it still doesn't sound right), but then I loose focus (or panic as the deadline nears) and start writing thoughts as they come to me; sometimes telegraphically and without elaboration- and then obsessively fill in the details, sometimes researching obsessively until I don't remember exactly what I was after in the first place. (anyone else find that having instant access to journal articles online is as much a curse as a blessing?) Right now I have 5 pages of semi-disorganized thoughts that I wish I could just inject with something to magically make them cohere. . .

On bad days, there's the nagging thought in the back of my mind being . . .if it's taken me THREE weeks to write a five page discussion, and I'm STILL procrastinating, how the *&#* am I going to make myself sit down and write a 300 page dissertation!?!? The sheer enormity of the project (and the fact that my current advisor is *ahem* a touch erratic himself) gives me occasional moments of enormous self doubt. . . On good days I know it will happen eventually. I'm too interested in the subject for it *not* to.

Thanks, guys, for your very reassuring and supportive thoughts. It's really validating to hear that other people have similar writing processes, because I've been trying to change mine into more of a flow and having only minimal success (this is not the most fabulous time to be trying to change a habit, I suppose). Sometimes I can just let the ideas flow, but not when I'm feeling this stressed out. I over-prepare when I write as well, then get that frozen, cognitive deer-in-the-headlights feeling, which then causes me to freak out more. I also feel like the Adderall exacerbates my anxiety; though it does do a good job of helping me focus, it doesn't help me make better choices about what to focus on, which can make my procrastination reflexes more intractable than usual.
I have to say, it helps just to get some of the anxiety off my chest and get support from other people. Also, writing out my thoughts here has been much more enjoyable than writing for the evil D-word, and that makes me feel better about my writing ability in general.
Thanks!

HStarr,

I read your description of how Adderall makes you feel. For whatever it is worth, I used to feel the same way on it - Ritalin (Cocerta) does not make me anxious and allows me to focus on what I want.

Hmm, that's good to know about Concerta. I had thought about trying it, but wasn't sure that it would be an improvement. And I have been reluctant to tinker with the meds and have to deal with new and different side effects.
I decided not to take the Strattera for now; waiting several weeks or months for it to work sounds mildly torturous. And I have taken a day's reprieve from Adderall and my anxiety is noticeably decreased today. I'm seeing my doctor next week, so I'll talk to her about Concerta.
Thanks!

Have you looked into working with and ADD Coach? I know that many ADD Coaches work with ADD Clients who are working on their PHDs. I have also spoken with people who realized they had ADD when they were working on their dissertations. Up until then they thrived in school because the built in structure was very helpful.

Perfectionism is an issue that a lot of ADD Coaches help clients with too.

Yup, I'm working with a coach, and we've discussed the perfectionism stuff a bit. The difficult thing (and ironically, I say this as a therapist) is how to make the insights or information I get from the hour with the coach last after the session is finished. It's one thing to understand where the perfectionism comes from, or what concrete actions I can take to make things different; it's another to practice it consistently enough that old habits are replaced by newer, hopefully healthier, ones.
Oftentimes my anxiety about writing, or finishing the dissertation, or being able to graduate and actually make some money, etc, overwhelms my positive, well-thought-out intentions.
Arg.
Actually, I feel like I learned a helpful thing just from posting this - that when I reach out and spew a little bit with people who get where I'm coming from (muy importante), my anxiety goes down and I can eventually get back on track. I've made some good progress since I first posted this the other day. A minor victory, but a victory nonetheless.:D

hstarr and others,

It is helpful to hear of how others are struggling with their dissertations and writing. This project is almost designed to pull on my ADD stuff. In fact, I was recently diagnosed and I am sure a big part of that was how clear the ADD is when you look at my dissertation progress or lack thereof.

For me there si so much information, so many theories and studies, so many interests and tangents I want to pusue and that seem related to my topic that it is very hard to even structure my research study in a way where it simply asks a question related to theory in the literature, tests a hypothesis, and confirms or doesn't confirm that hypotheses. There are so many hypotheses and so many ways of asking things.

I haven't had much help from my department, no real mentorship, and so I am out here on my own trying to do a big study. I suppose it is needless to stay I didn't get funding for it either, as I couldn't get myself going on grant applications.

I know I need some help with this, but from where? I don't really have much money to hire a coach.

Yes, procrastination, perfectionism, and having to do excessive amonuts of research are huge problems for me. I can't seem to think clearly a lot of the time either and get hyperfocued on one idea. My anxiety is making it all the worse now. I had a deadline I set myself for this revision I am doing and it has long past. (a couple of weeks). I've been working on this just about nonstop and now I am just really tired. My girlfriend is sick of it and says I am distant and not available, but I feel so much pressure to do this, and I cannot get her to understand.

Sigh. I think I just needed to vent to some folks who might be able to understand. I am not on any meds for ADD right now as I have been getting Stratera out of my system. I think it made my symptoms actually worse. I briefly tried atteral and ritalin but fuelt I got too anxious. I'm just on an SSRI and Welbutrin for depression and anxiety. Welbutrin is supposedly also prescribed for ADD. I don't think it has helped that.

I actually have another question -Do any of you have periods of total exhaustion and fatigue -my brain feels so tired, my mood gets really low, and I can do is sleep, or at best watch tv. THere is so much more I need to be doing but I am just overwhelmed and exhausted. I don't know if this is just an aspect of my depression.
Thanks. Good luck to y'all.

Wanderwolf,
I could really relate to a lot of what you talked about. I also feel like I'm doing this on my own - setting my own deadlines, with no one to help me meet or stick to them, and friends who don't have problems focusing or organizing to the extent that I do and have finished their dissertations and are studying for licensing exams. On top of that, writing is a lonely process, no getting around it. Even if you give drafts to an advisor to review and give feedback on, you still have to sit your lonely bottom down in front of the computer and try to churn out another version of your project. It sounds like your dissertation is much broader than mine, too, which sounds unbelievably overwhelming. I don't know what discipline you're studying, but I'm wondering: Are there any people in your program, friends, other students with whom you can talk through some of your ideas? Maybe a faculty member who can help provide structure for the writing process, even if they aren't an expert in your area of study? Or maybe someone in the community or professional world who could serve as a mentor/guide/motivator? This is such a difficult process, and so much more so if you're trying to do it alone.

In terms of your question about feeling exhausted and brain dead - absol-*@#!-lutely. I have been at least a few weeks late on all my deadlines because I get worn out thinking, agonizing, and sometimes writing all day long, so then I need time away from the computer to rejuvenate myself. It always takes me longer to finish a segment of the dissertation than I think it will, and I'm so sick of it at that point that I need a break.

Your description of being drawn into a wide variety of research, theories, etc, made me think of a friend of mine, really smart w/ADHD (combined type), who had so many different, great ideas for her dissertation that she ended up doing 2 in 1 - a qualitative and a quantitative study. It took her a while to finish, but she did it (the woman is my hero). One thing she has repeatedly said to me is that the dissertation is a hoop we have to jump through in order to do what we're really interested in and passionate about - it does NOT have to be perfect. It just has to get done. I have to remind myself of that ALL the time, because I so easily get invested in something that, honestly, will end up sitting on the shelf of my school's library, collecting dust (unless I decide to publish it, a scary thought).

All right. I'm done rambling. I hope something of what I've said helps in some way, at least to help you feel less out in the cold.
Amanda

Amanda,

Thanks for your support and ideas. It is so funny about your friend doing the 2 in one dissertation -quantitative and qualitative. That is exactly what I am doing. It has been really hard for me to get the topic down to its current immense size. I've heard that line about it being a hurdle you have to jump through, and that seems the right way to look at it, but then I have so many questions, and there are so many interesting ways it could go. Even more than that, I guess, is my feeling that I will need to get at least a couple of articles published out of it to get a job at a university at all. So, I feel like it has to be good. And I don't want to waste my subjects' time.

I'm in human development, so my methods are broad already -all the social sciences in one -although I'm really mostly a psychologist. My advisor and a lot of other folks in my department are really into qualitative research. All my training previously was in quantitative. I felt if I just did qualitative I wouldn't have the numbers of respondents and the actual numbers to provide a floor to stand on. I guess that is how I look at it, and it may be just from all of the "positivistic" indoctrination I had as an undergrad.

On top of that, my questions are pretty broad. And I spent so much time procrastinating and trying to get myself going, more work had been published on the topic by the time I started collecting the data. Someone else published a book about a year ago based on her dissertation on the topic and she asked many of the questions I am asking -and got a postdoc at Harvard, I have noticed. So, now I've had to add items to the questionnaires to repsond to and extend her work, as well as to investigate avenues my preliminary work uncovered. So, I just get lost in it all and spend my time feeling like I have to research one more subject, or I try to formulate another model of my hypotheses so I can conceptualize what I am doing better. It is hard for me to grasp the totality of it. Broad issues of gender, identity, family interactions...And then I can't seem to stick to a schedule.

In the middle of it all I have to try to make money somehow, take care of a lot of (stress related) medical problems, and try to keep my girlfriend happy -with me. Do errands while she is at work, clean, etc. Which is only fair because she works 10 hours a day. Maybe a little too much information? I tend to go on, and I need to vent.

My family doesn't really understand either. They think I am immature and irresponsible, and why can't I just finish my dissertation and make some money? I've tried to explain the ADD stuff. I don't think it matters much. Is there anyone else who is in a similar situation with all of the significant people in their life getting sick of feeling like they have to take care of you? It seems like I am a burden to them, and I know I am not just making this up. Maybe it is worse for me because I've been seriously depressed -on and off- since I was about 13, and very anxious. And then got all of these other medical problems. Medical problems that others usually don't take very seriously, like IBS, GERD, anemia, back pain, food allergies, and migraines. I think it just seems like I am whining and malingering. Sometimes I think they're right.

I've thought of trying to get more structure from my commitee. I've also thought of trying to find a mentor. I've dreamed of it, actually. That is really what I have needed all along. All the faculty are really busy and the one who could have been most helpful, I think I have alienated her by being inconsistant, unable to meet deadlines, sick and depressed all the time, etc. Plus, I moved to San Francisco to collect my data where there is a larger group of potential subjects and resources (plus it isn't freezing for 6 months of the year and it is beautiful). I'm flying back in a couple of weeks to see my committe. I haven't seen them in almost 2 years. I'm not looking forward to it because I will just feel like a screw up.

I suppose one of my biggest problems is I just get really down on myself. I just accepted this ADD diagnosis recently. It never really occurred to me before.

Regarding friends, I never really got that close to a lot of my peers in the program. I think it had a lot to do with my social anxiety, and just being a bit odd. At least that is my guess. I burned a few bridges too, not returning phone calls, etc. I do have a couple of friends who could be of some help, but not a lot.

I think I need to go to conferences and make an effort to become friendly with others in my area of research. I may be able to get some help that way.

Now I am really rambling. It probably gives you a good idea of why I am having trouble keeping my mind on getting what I need to get done, done. Thanks for your response, and everyone else for reading.

Sam

Sam,
Dude, you have a LOT on your plate. I felt overwhelmed just reading it. Lots of thoughts came to me as I was reading your response, so I'll see if I can remember them. :)

Yeah, the thing about the hoops and jumping through them sounds better to me when I say it to someone else than when I hear it myself. I try to rein in my perfectionism and then I get into writing, and I have all these ideas that I want to put into elegant, technically succinct language, and I get so obsessive that my brain eventually starts to hurt. But when an idea comes out of my head in a pretty sentence - ah, what a sweet feeling.

I feel too invested in my project as well to just throw it together and have it signed off by my committee. I'm doing a qualitative, phenomenological study of women martial artists; I studied martial arts for several years, which is how I got the idea for my topic, and it had a significant impact on my life. Also, the women I interviewed were all wonderful - open, funny, self-effacing, very inspiring to me. And many of them want to read this beast when it's finished, so I want it to be good.

Right now I'm putting quotes from interviews into themes and then explaining what the themes mean and how they're related. The problem I'm having, though, is that the quotes could often go in more than one theme, or are a bit tangential, or contrast with what other people have said. I am having a very hard time accepting that qualitative research, because it's subjective, is inherently messy. I can't use numbers to decide whether something fits; I have to make a decision based on my sense of the essential meaning of the themes and quotes. So basically, I can chase my own tail for days and come up with all kinds of different ideas of how the themes should be labeled and organized. Which I have been doing, as the days pass and the end of the semester looms.

I wanted to finish by December, because I actually have a residency set up that I am supposed to start after I defend this thing, but I'm not sure that's going to work, because I chronically underestimate the amount of time it takes me to finish things. Then I get into worries similar to those you brought up - I need to make money, people are expecting me to "just finish" so I can move on (parents, friends, people in the practice I'm joining, etc), I'm letting people down by taking longer. Blah blah blah. I often vacillate between panic, depression/hopelessness, and anger at all the pressure. When I think about having to push back the start date of my residency, I definitely go into a panic.

It helps to have friends who remind me of the pressure I put on myself, so I can differentiate (if only for short periods of time) between other people's expectations and my own. Sometimes that's hard to do, because I take on what other people want from me (yes, I am a people pleaser), sometimes as a way to motivate myself, and I forget that those ideas orginated outside myself. Like my parents, who just want me to get this over with, and who have NO IDEA how hard it is to write something like this. Or my residency supervisor, who has told her practice that I would be starting in December (it was November until a few weeks ago) and is anxious for me to start on time.

Anyway, other thoughts I had: my boyfriend has combined type ADHD and has a host of other problems similar to yours - depression, generalized & social anxiety, IBS, food allergies, etc. He's always got more than one malady manifesting at a time, and it's hard for him to stay on track with work and hobbies because his somatic and mood symptoms interfere. My own belief is that he was under such pressure growing up to work up to his potential and harangued so much for being the way he is - bright, forgetful, impulsive, creative/abstract thinker - because he didn't fit in academically, that his soul got kind of squashed. He internalized the voices of those weenie teachers and his parents and became anxious and depressed at a young age, which eventually led to other problems. It makes me mad to think about. I say all this because I recognized some of my boyfriend in what you were saying - you have a lot of people in your life expecting things of you, but the understanding and empathy seemed a bit thin. And yet that support is what helps alleviate suffering.

It's clear from your posts that you're bright, a great writer, and you really want to do well and produce a dissertation that really means something - not just another lump gathering dust on a library shelf. And you can do it - with some help and support to validate your ideas and the difficulties you come across. I think it's pretty common for people like us to withdraw in situations like this and unfortunately, it compounds the problem. I just crawled out of a hole I dug for myself by calling my supervisor and pushing back my residency start date, then talking honestly with some friends about how badly I've been feeling about myself and the dissertation. It helped, and it's really hard to do - shame being a primary factor.

Okay, this is reaching epic-sized proportions, so I'm going to stop. I have to say, it's nice to find another person who is experiencing similar troubles. It makes this whole dissertation thing feel a bit more tolerable.
Thanks,
A

I can relate to this forum. Although I am a terrible speller as most of you know by now, I am a voratious writer. During the time that I was writing my disertation, which was on the works of William S. Burroughs, I went with what worked for me in my novel writing...first draft best draft. Wrong! Proffesors dont care for the rambling and tangent ridden image filled thesis. So I was forced, for the first time, to change my writing style to fulfill my thesis requirements. I agaonized, I pulled all nighters, I stared at the screen blankly, I reread Burroughs works more times than i can remember and then one day I decided that i would take a week off and drive to Laurence, Kansas. I was in school in Mass at the time. Three days later I was at the home of my hero and literary idol William Burroughs. We talked for a few hours, drank diet coke and vodka and just chatted about normal things, neither one of us brought up writing. I drove home the next day. From that point on i stoped agonizing over my work, I quit trying to be brilliant and just wrote. Things came together and i impressed my professors and graduated with high honors. More importantly I learned that writing is not life and death, it is part of who i am and always will be but sometimes looking into the eyes of your hero and seeing him near the end of his life you realize that you and your writing are what they are. More importantly they are more than you are, it is just that you are more real when you let your subcocious do the work and leave the agonizing to your editor. William Burroughs died soon after my visit but his works will stand the test of time I can only hope that mine will as well. But sometimes a diet coke and a talk about the weather is just as important as imortality.
Pith

hstarr and others,

hey. I got really busy with everything I had to do -everything on my plate. Yeah, it's a lot. More explaining to everyone why I accidentally burned the potatoes because I had to go get a book to answer a question I was thinking about, and why I forgot to put the food up, and then I couldn't remember where I had parked yesterday so I missed an appointment...sigh. I also had to explain to my mother, again, why it is taking me so long to do my dissertation. She asks how long it has to be and how much I have written. I explained again how I have to do a study. So I have to get the data and analyze it before I actually write the paper. Comparatively, the writing is the easy part. But, I can totally relate to having to go through an agonizing process writing. It has gotten much better. But it takes me a long time too, and I have to revise sentences as I go along. Often I'll write a section and then realize I need to reorganize the whole structure of the paper. The outline is a wonderful, amazing thing. I am learning I have to clearly think through my ideas before I write them. Unfortunately, the process of writing is a way I have learned to organize my ideas and create new ones, so I may just have to accept the large amount of time it takes me to get a project completed. but then, sometimes I don't ever finish it. I am worried that is going to happen with my dissertation. Has anyone worked with a coach that has helped them to make the process of organizing your thoughts and writing easier and quicker?

I also love spell check. I have always been pretty bad at it. "poor visual memory." That is the one thing I got from the full psych assessment I had in the eighth grade. No ADD diagnosis. Just that and I was depressed and perfectionistic. Well, I knew that. It makes me wonder sometimes whether this whole ADD diagnosis is wrong -no hyperactivity with me. Wouldn't it have shown up in some way in the assessment battery? The perfectionism was tied to my tendency to hyperfocus (my brother does too). My mother says she doesn't remember me being spacy. Of course, this is the woman who can't remember much of my childhood. I'm rambling. I talk like this too.

hstarr- Your study sounds interesting and it seems you got a lot out of the interviews. That is wonderful. I hope mine go as well. So you're doing a phenomenological study. Is there a particular model of analysis, a process, you are using? I am just starting to learn about the different ways I could approach the interviews. Crash course in qualitative analysis. Hey, I've got to get around to reading those books! Your description about chasing your tail is a preview of what it is going to be like for me.

I hate time and the pressure it puts on me. I feel for you around the residency.

It is really interesting about your boyfriend. I haven't heard of anyone else yet with the number of stress related disorders I have, or anything even close. I am wondering how you feel about all of his illnesses and limitations. Do you get frustrated with him a lot? Do you feel a bit overburdened by all of his troubles? It seems to me that women want me to be so much stronger, more of a caretaker, than someone needing care. My girlfriend says she just sometimes wishes she could just feel like things will be taken care of -food put away, lights turned off, doors locked, bills paid -if she didn't monitor it all. And then she feels like when she is tired or ill she can't depend on me to take care of her. She can't ask because she always feels like I am more tired or ill than she is. I tell her that is not true. I'm not sick all the time. I do take care of some things and am getting better about remembering what to do. But, I can't blame her really. I get so caught up in working on my dissertation, and can't stop working on it even when I know I need to do other things. and yeah, everything takes so much longer than I expect it to. You would think I would have learned by now.?.But then getting the cat's medicine or putting the food away. I often forget about it, or I just don't get around to it. I think I'm getting better though, and she has been more tolerant lately. So, maybe we are working it out. But I agree with you about the support. I know it is important. I guess that is why I am writing all of this. Thanks for your encouragement.

One last question -How do you explain to professors that there are reasons for you not getting things done in a timely way or for being so disorganized -ADD, + other health issues- without sounding like you are whining? Does letting them know you have ADD just write you off as even less capable than they thought and so, not meant for an academic career i.e. not worth wasting time on? I've got to see my two main committee members next week. I'm worried. I really do need their support and help.

O.K. one more question -has anyone else been thinking that the problems they have with ADD might make an academic career a bad idea -well, for those of you who have considered such a career? I can't figure out what I should do. O.K. end of my rambling writing. Thanks.

Hi Wanderwolf:

I'm working on a master's in seminary. I won't have a thesis, but we do have papers to write for our various classes (as well as doing some teaching and preaching, which requires some study, writing, planning) and we will have something like Comps this January (General Ordination Exam) where we are given timed essay exams - some open book, some limited resources, some closed book. They last 4 days and you're given about 3-4 hours total to research and write on each topic.

Anyway, about going to your committe members/advisors, I think you should think about talking to them if you need their support. Last spring when things started to cave in on me and I had paper deadlines extended and was still hitting a writers block I couldn't break through I realized I needed to go get some help and try to figure out if ADD was part of it (I'd been reading up on it for almost a year, and hemming and hawing about seeing a psychologist about it). At the same time it was almost time for the faculty to get together to do evaluations of the students' progress, and the evaluation the 2nd year is more involved, than the first year, carries more weight with the powers that be. I was really anxious about what might be discussed when they talked about me (she's late to class, often asks for an extension on assignment due dates, etc.).

I decided that I needed to let someone know what was going on, so that they didn't think that I was just sitting on my couch, spacing out and eating bon-bons.

I went to my advisor and also to our academic dean and talked to them about what was going on. I don't think I was whining. I think I just approached it like: I wanted to talk to you about something. There's something going on with me that you might want to know about. I've been struggling with writing these papers (I had my research and understood the material, but would feel paralyzed and overwhelmed when I sat down to work on it). I've suspected for a year that ADD might be involved. I've found a psychologist and have an appointment to meet with him and start exploring this.

So it was kind of like: this is a problem I'm having that I recognize, these are some steps I'm taking (what I'm doing about it), I want you to know in case it comes up somewhere, and also I may need your support/encouragement/help.

It turned out that both of them were familiar with people close to them who have it. It may be different in a larger field of academia where your committee members may not know you as well, or if they have a misconception of what ADD is, and also since you'd be stating it as a known issue - where I was just exploring it.

Maybe you don't even have to name it as ADD, but rather describe some areas where you're not so strong and/or describe it in a way that told them how they could be helpful. Like:

"Sometimes when working on a project like this I tend to get caught up in the bigger, more abstract picture and have trouble narrowing in on specifics or staying organized, or may get so engrossed in the research I lose sight of the deadline. It would help me be successful and stay on deadline if I could use you to provide structure or keep me accountable, help me keep sight of the deadlines. Can we set up some intermediate deadlines, or can you call me in a month to check on my progress, or can you help me sketch out a tentative plan/timeline for the things I have to do next..." Something kind of like that? And of course the fact that encouragement and support needed, welcomed, appreciated.

I don't know if this helps at all. I think I rambled a bit. :)
Peace, bythesea

Speaking of dissertations a funny/embarassing thing happened to me this week.

I was in the library and another student mentioned that a new professor was working on a disertation and then it sounded like they said Prof was ADD. I think I asked, "ProfName is ADD?" and the person said yes.

So yesterday I went to prof's office and said I wanted to talk about something. That someone had mentioned that they were working on a dissertation and were ADD. Prof said, no I'm not ADD, well I've never been diagnosed, who knows maybe I am and I don't know it. Do they know something I don't know.

Well, I was embarassed. :o

So I told Prof that I had wanted to talk about what they do, etc. since its something I've been exploring and trying to figure out, etc. So we had a good little chat.

Later I went to talk to student who had made the comment to see where the miscommunication had occurred and also to apologize because I thought I might have used their name.

It turns out that student hadn't said "ADD" but... "ABD" = All But Dissertation! Doh! So listen carefully and watch those acronyms. :o

bythesea

p.s. I realize that I'm also kind of in the same boat as you Wanderwolf. While I went to people on campus, I've been hesitant to talk to someone else about this ADD exploration/diagnosis who has a lot of power over my future and also my possible job placement. I worry about this label being permanently affixed and part of a file that will influence everything else I do in the future.

Regarding your concern about your future, I heard a great "nugget" this week that helped me shift focus, and might also be helpful to you.

I heard it in a sermon, but a less spiritual way of wording the idea might be to say that we all have a tendency to get down on ourselves about the things we're trying to change. But you have certain interests and skills, a unique character and personality that drew you to this field and this doctorate program, and so even though there may be challenges (ADD related or otherwise) try to trust what drew you to it. Others must have seen it in you too for you to get this far. Remember your passion when you start to doubt your future path (be it academia or using your Ph.D. in a way other than at a university), let it help guide you to what it is you really want to be doing.

bythesea

HStarr - how goes the writing?

Wanderwolf, how goes the research? Did you meet with those two committee members yet? Did you say anything to them/ask for support in some way?

Just wondering how you two are doing.

~~bythesea :)

Wanderwolf, bythesea, etc:

Agh. This process is like a roller coaster; I feel good about it for a while, then I start feeling badly (guilty, tired, etc), grapple with my demons, begin to feel better, and the whole cycle starts over again. I've taken a week off of writing because my boyfriend's parents were in town and my time was consumed with tourist-related activities, so now I have to get back on the writing wagon, which feels quite daunting at the moment. I have a draft written of my results section, which at 65 pages is the longest thing I've ever written, but there are many sections that I put together in a pretty blunt fashion, so I have to go back and clean it up. I had set a deadline for finishing this section that went by almost a month ago, which means that I won't be defending the thing until January or February at the earliest. It also means that I have to tell people at the group practice where I'm supposed to start a residency that I have to push back my start date by several months - which I've already done once before.

I've come to realize that setting hard deadlines isn't always very helpful;
instead of feeling more motivated, I get more anxious and stressed, struggle to write with any fluidity, procrastinate more because the writing process is so painful, feel guilty about not working more, and generally suffer a lot. But
when the deadline is further away on the horizon, I can often work quite
happily, with ideas and words flowing at a fairly steady pace.

So I've decided to write my potential residency supervisor and tell
her that I want to refrain from setting a start date at her practice
<script><!-- D(["mb","until I have a complete draft finished, since I seem to suck at
predicting the length of time it will take me to complete a section of
the dissertation. Of course, I have been thinking about writing her an
email for several days and have avoided actually doing it for fear of
what she\'ll say, i.e., that I\'ll have to find a residency elsewhere. I
also feel pretty embarassed that I have to ask for extra time. If you
have any ideas for shame exorcisms, let me know.

But I have realized that rushing myself isn\'t helping; also, I have
never had the chance to find out how I would write if I wasn\'t under a
time crunch, since I\'ve always written school stuff at the last minute
and under much duress, and I\'m curious to find out the conditions that
are conducive to my doing good work. For example, I took my laptop to
a friend\'s house a week ago while she and a bunch of other people
drank wine and worked on craft projects. I worked on my dissertation,
and found that I did better with a little red wine in me, surrounded
by friends and conversation, that I do sitting alone in my basement
with the dogs panting at my side. Funny, huh?

Alright, I think I\'m finished spewing for now. Keep me posted on how
your book is coming along, and I will do the same with the damned
dissertation. I love you, sexpot. Have a safe flight back to your
honey in NYC, and give him a big smooch from me.

xoxo
",1] ); //--></script>until I have a complete draft finished, since I seem to suck at
predicting the length of time it will take me to complete a section of
the dissertation. Of course, I have been thinking about writing her an
email for several days and have avoided actually doing it for fear of
what she'll say, i.e., that I'll have to find a residency elsewhere, she's disappointed in my progress, etc. I hate to be viewed as flaky, and I
also feel pretty embarassed that I have to ask for extra time.

I remember reading in Sari Solden's recent book on ADD adults that one of the hardest things to come to terms with post-diagnosis is the fact that we have to ask for help if we want to succeed with our goals, shame being a primary factor that causes us to hide and work extra hard at looking like everyone else. I am having to take a good look at this part of myself right now and it's really difficult to acknowledge and accept, particularly in the world of academia, where the measure of intelligence is rigid and limited in scope. My dissertation chair and an old clinical supervisor have already made "joking" comments on my slow pace and need for more time. Predictably, my embarassment and desire to run away (i.e., not work on the dissertation) flares up. I am tired of fighting myself.

Additionally, the deadlines I have set make me feel rushed, which also exacerbates matters; also, I have never had the chance to find out how I would write if I wasn't under a time crunch, since I've always written school stuff at the last minute and under much duress, and I'm curious to find out the conditions that are conducive to my doing good work over the long term. For example, I took my laptop to a friend's house a week ago while she and a bunch of other people drank wine and worked on craft projects. I worked on my dissertation, and found that I did better with a little red wine in me, surrounded by friends and conversation, that I do sitting alone in my office with three dogs panting at my side. Funny, huh? Or maybe not.

So that's where I'm at. Wanderwolf, you asked about my responses to my boyfriend's varied illnesses. I have good and not-so-good moments with them. Generally I have a lot of empathy for him and try to show it, as my being impatient or grumpy only makes him feel worse and leads to fighting and comparisons with his judgmental parents (not fun). I've found that the more emotional support I can give him around these issues, the better things are all around. This means that I have to be very aware of my need to control what he does, can't do, or forgets to do (a nasty impulse of mine), and if that means that certain things don't get done, then that's a natural consequence I have to accept. We also have worked to use visual reminders to keep us on track (whiteboards and sticky notes are the main ones) and those have helped a bit.

I also think my having ADD myself helps, because I am not always on top of things myself and struggle with depression, inertia, etc, and appreciate when he can show me support. I also just adore the man - he's really bright, keeps me on my toes creatively, is weird and sweet and doting, so I remind myself of those aspects of him and our relationship if I'm feeling frustrated. I think Ned Hallowell has a good point in his books that finding the right relationship is one of the most important factors for ADD people leading happy lives - if our partners don't get ADD-related stuff and don't want to get it, then the relationship can be pretty painful.

As for the academia career thing, I think it's definitely possible for you to do, if it's what you really want. I believe that ADD people have a wonderful gift in that we can really kick a** when we're doing stuff we really enjoy and are passionate about. If you love to teach, do research, etc, then yes, I think it's absolutely possible. You may also need to get help with the parts of your job that aren't your forte by having assistants/co-workers who are skilled at doing the organizational, repetitive stuff. And you will be a great resource for students who are unconventional learners and need support from a professor who understands their struggles.

I hope your meeting goes well with your committee. I have found that a lot of professors, having been absorbed in the limited world of academia for a long time, are oblivious of ADD or the like, and respond best to concrete requests, like regularly scheduled meetings or phone check-ins, examples of the kind of feedback you need at a particular point (e.g., "Please comment on the general organization of this section for now - I will address formatting issues in a later draft."), etc. Sometimes I think professors choose academia because they're not so great at social/relational matters, so they don't always know how to respond to requests for emotional support. I wish that was different, and I'm sure that it is in many cases, though I haven't found it in my program.

Oh - check out Qualitative Inquiry and Research Design by John Creswell for descriptions of qualitative methods. It's pretty easy to skim, and there are examples of 5 different methods in the back of the book.

Okay, after writing another novella-sized post, I'm signing off. Thanks a lot for the support - it's keeping me sane (enough). :)