I was diagnosed with adult ADD five days ago - but over the years, I've been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, etc., and had never had any benefits from any medications. I have almost all of the symptoms of ADD - but not all of them, and that is where I'm a little uneasy and confused about the diagnosis. Every single symptom I've read about, I'm like "wow, that's totally me, why didn't anyone else get this, it seems so obvious"....EXCEPT, I am not, nor have I ever been hyper. It's hard to explain, I FEEL hyper on the inside, but my body feels lethargic, lazy - sometimes I feel like I can't get up the stairs or even sit up straight!
I'm now on 10 mg methylphenidate 3x a day - I feel completely leveled out and calm inside - I still can't watch TV for more than a few minutes or read anything more than a magazine article, but I'm HOPING. The thing is....I'm still tired, I still feel fatiqued, still hardly have the energy to walk up the stairs, etc. - is there anyone who thinks I may NOT really have ADD?

I have a VERY hard time talking to anyone about my feelings, including a doctor - which is why I'm here, this seems much easier. ANd one other thing, most people would probably consider me "antisocial" - does that fit with an ADD diagnosis??

Does this describe you better?

From Dr. Russell Barkley San Fan lecture 2000

Now I want to come back to this group that we call Inattentive AD/HD. We used to call them ADD without Hyperactivity. These days some people are just using the term ADD for them. I don’t like that. Part of the problem with using that term is that that was the old term for AD/HD over 10 years ago, so it creates a lot of labeling confusion.

ADD and AD/HD are the same thing. ADD is the earlier, 1987 term—goes all the way back to 1980, in fact, whereas AD/HD is the more recent label.

So let’s talk about this Inattentive type: the kids who come to see us who don’t show problems with hyperactivity, who aren’t impulsive. What do we know about that subtype? We know enough that several of us in the research community have taken to arguing that this is a different disorder. This does not belong in AD/HD. This is not AD/HD. This is a real attention disorder with real information processing deficits, and it has little in common with the other two kinds of AD/HD.

The Hyperactive type of AD/HD and the Combined type of AD/HD are the same disorder. You’re just catching it at different developmental stages. Kids start out with Hyperactivity; the attention deficits come within a few years after that, and then they move into being the Combined type. But these children, on the other hand, are a different story all together. Why do I think this is a different disorder? Why do some of my colleagues agree with it? Why do the rest of my scientific colleagues certainly agree that this is a qualitatively different group of children? Whether you view them as a different subtype or as an entirely different disorder is less of concern to me than that you understand these are not the same kids. They do not have the same risk, the same co-morbidities, the same causes and the same outcome, and it is likely that they do not respond to the same treatments the same way.

But we will not know any more about treatment if we don’t view them differently, because everyone will assume as you may do, quite naively, that the treatments for one apply to all the subtypes, and they don’t. We have discovered a new disorder and it does not belong here. It needs its own name and its own criteria and it needs to get out of this category known as the disruptive behavior disorders, because it has no affinity for them. So let me show you why many of my colleagues are now slowly coming around to an idea that 10 years ago I argued for. This is a different disorder. Why do I think it’s a different disorder? Because these children come in with the opposite symptoms. Instead of being hyperactive, intrusive, distractable, they’re lethargic, slow-moving, hypoactive, spacey, daydreamy, quiet, passive, withdrawn, confused, in a fog. They are the polar opposite of the AD/HD child in their clinical presentation. This is not an impulsive, disruptive, intrusive, aggressive, emotional, naive child. This is a kid who is staring, daydreaming, confused, and not processing information accurately. This is a real attention deficit, if attention means information processing. These kids have a processing deficit. AD/HD children do not. Do not confuse these two groups. They do not have the same problems with paying attention.

Other things we see in these children: when we bring them into the clinic, and we run them through a battery of neuropsychological tests, they have deficits in an area we call selective attention. Selective attention is how quickly you can deduce what’s important from unimportant in a spatial array of information, how fast you accurately process information coming at you. AD/HD children have no trouble with selective attention. And by the way, let’s put an end then, to this metaphor for AD/HD that it’s a filtering problem. Because it isn’t. Real AD/HD has no trouble with filtering, selecting information. AD/HD children perceive the world exactly as everybody else does. These children don’t. These kids have a selective attention problem, which by the way explains something that we have found in about six different studies. These kids make more mistakes in academic work than AD/HD children do, many more mistakes. The problem that AD/HD children have is with productivity; number of problems attempted. The problem with these kids is accuracy: the number of errors made. These kids have a real problem with input coming into the brain, how quickly they can handle it, how accurately they can select it out, and deal with it. These children have memory problems. AD/HD children do not. These children have trouble with getting information out of short-term and longterm memory and doing it correctly. It’s especially so for long-term memory, so that they show a very erratic recall of information. AD/HD children, if they have a memory problem, it’s going to be in a very unusual form of memory we’re going to talk about later today. But this is traditional long-term storage, and these children have some trouble with that, probably for the same reason. They’re not getting information out of memory any more accurately than they’re processing information coming into the brain.

There are problems with selection, with filtering, with focusing their attention. These children have a very different social profile. The traditional AD/HD child is often a rejected child, because they’re immature and emotional and hotheaded and demanding and controlling and impulsive and often aggressive, so that when we compute a social profile of the AD/HD children they often wind up as being the least liked, the least popular and most likely to fight. That is their peer group profile. That is what Ken Dodge and his profile of peer acceptance views as the rejected child. And 50 percent or more of AD/HD children are utterly rejected by their peer group; these [inattentive] children, very different picture. These children are overlooked. In Ken Dodge’s taxonomy of social problems, they’re neglected. Why? Because they’re passive, uninvolved. They’re staring, daydreaming, hypoactive, absent-minded, passive. Unengaged is a better term for them. They’re not disliked by the other kids. They’re not rejected by them. The other kids just don’t know them. They’re not engaging. They’re not out there participating. They’re just kind of passive kids. They have more friends than AD/HD children have, actually. These kids tend to be neglected, not rejected. It’s a very different social profile.

Other differences: there is no affinity of this disorder for Oppositional (Defiant) or Conduct Disorder that we can tell. They basically have the same base rates as the normal population. But many AD/HD children are likely to go on to develop Oppositional Disorder and Conduct Disorder. Forty-five to 55 percent of AD/HD children develop Oppositional Disorder by age 7, and another 25-45 percent move up to Conduct Disorder by ages 8 to 12. AD/HD goes with Oppositional and Conduct Disorder. The inattentive group does not.

You see another reason why they don’t belong in this group? Those three disorders—AD/HD, ODD, and CD—are all part of a larger category we call the disruptive disorders. The inattentive group isn’t and it shouldn’t be there. Other differences that we see: by definition, of course, these kids are not impulsive. They don’t have any difficulties with inhibition. These children do not respond to stimulants anywhere near as well as AD/HD hyperactive, impulsive children do. Only about one in five of these children will show a sufficiently therapeutic response to maintain them on medication after an initial period of titration. Oh, you’ll find that about two-thirds of them show mild improvement, but those improvements are not enough to justify calling them clinical responders, therapeutic responders. Ninety-two percent of AD/HD children respond to stimulants. Twenty percent of these children respond to stimulants. And the dosing is different. AD/HD children tend to be better on moderate to high doses. Inattentive children, if they’re going to respond at all, it’s at very light doses, small doses. So the drug response is different. And that’s all we know.

[At this time] there are no other studies of treatment of this group—none. The only studies are five involving medication and mine was the only one that tested multiple doses with a placebo control. There are only two pages in my parents’ book, Taking Charge of ADHD, on this group, and it tells you what I just told you. This is what we know. These are different kids. This is a different disorder. Stay tuned. We don’t know what to do with them. It’s up to you. You’re just going to have to cobble together some help any way you can and hope that it works, because there is no science beyond what I just told you.

They may have different causes. They certainly have different family histories. Those children tend to come from families where there are more anxiety disorders and learning disabilities. AD/HD children come from families where there’s more AD/HD, Conduct Disorder, antisocial behavior, and substance abuse. The family histories of these two groups are not the same. Now, we have to be careful here, because the Inattentive group, it turns out, is rather a wastebasket group of kids. First of all, in that group are the true Inattentive kids. But also in that group are AD/HD children who came in one symptom short of being in the Combined group, right? They’ve got six inattention and five hyperactive symptoms, and according to the DSM, if they don’t have six, they’re not in the Combined type. Well, yes they are, and you should think of them as being Combined type children, even if they come up one symptom short. Don’t put those kids into the Inattentive group.

The Inattentive group in our clinic is for kids with three symptoms or fewer off of that HyperactiveImpulsive list. Any more than three and you’re better off thinking of them as what we call subthreshold Combined type children. There’s another group, the group that starts out being in the Combined type and by adolescence or adulthood are no longer so hyperactive, but they meet the criteria on the Hyperactive list. Now you would flip them over into the Inattentive type. Don’t do it. You always think of them as Combined type.

So, bottom line is this: If any point in your history there was a whiff of problems with inhibition and impulse control, you’re a traditional AD/HD Combined type kid, and it shouldn’t matter what the DSM is telling you about cut-off scores. Clinically that’s how you would approach that child. That’s a Combined type kid. And you reserve this Inattentive group for kids who have never in their lives had trouble with inhibition. Those are the spacey, daydreamy, confused, in a fog, sluggish, hypoactive, slow-moving group. And as long as you conceptualize them that way, you won’t make any clinical mistakes. But if you follow the DSM as it’s written—perhaps you have OCD and you just have to follow all those criteria, just as they’re written—then you’re going to get yourself into some trouble.

Because remember, the DSM was not chiseled in stone in Israel. It’s a set of guidelines developed to help make clinical decisions, but it’s to be used with clinical judgment and understanding of the criteria. Okay, that’s just to resolve some confusion.

And by the way, I said the Inattentive group was a wastebasket. Why did I say that? Inattention is nonspecific. Inattention is unhelpful in defining what disorder you have, because most mental disorders produce inattention. So if somebody walks into your clinic and says, you know, I’m having a lot of trouble concentrating, can’t pay attention, can’t finish work, you have no idea what they have. You don’t automatically say, oh, that’s AD/HD, I’ve heard about that. This could be a psychotic. This person could be a substance abuser. This person could have a generalized anxiety disorder or panic attacks or major depression or bipolar illness. How the hell do you know what they have? For now, just know that the Inattentive type of AD/HD is a real wastebasket category of really inattentive children, along with children who have other disorders that are producing their inattention. There really is an Inattentive group out there, but they have a different disorder, and it’s not AD/HD.

Ohhh man, I'm even more confused now - a couple of those symptoms are right on target, the rest...not at all - just like the dx for adhd. See why I'm so confused? In school I did..OK in most subjects, failed every math class ever taken because I seemed to have some kind of mental block on learning it, I just refused. But in English and Art I got straight A's without trying. I skipped school all the time, got in school suspension for that, out of school suspension for skipping in school suspension,etc. Up until about 5 years ago, I was a normally social person - now I'm a hermit and hate it. The thing is, I function normally at work, nobody has any suspicions that I'm anything less than "normal" except for my immediate family.

Dorthy--I relate to what you're saying (a lot of it describes me as well).

I have had fatigue issues for at least a decade (been tested for anemia, etc. Everything always comes back perfect). I take all my vitamins and supplements. Eat well. Don't drink soda, coffee. I can't find anything that I do that could cause it but no one can find anything medically "wrong" with me that causes it either.

Some of those things in the article (e.g. the memory issues, confusion) fit me. I have problems getting things into my long-term memory. I forget things immediately, but not all things. I'll watch a movie and forget the plot by the next day (if not an hour later). I have packed bookshelves but most all are unread.

I would also describe myself as antisocial, lethargic and "hyper" on the inside. But I've read that the hyperactive part of AD/HD manifests itself differently in most adults. Hyperactive children express it by running around, for example. Adults tend to internalize it and feel restless.

I am confused easily. I think it's because I'm not able to pay attention to what someone is saying to me (after a few seconds their words become like Charlie Brown's teacher and I realize that I don't know what they said/are saying).

I am also taking methylphenidate, 10 mg TID. It makes me feel more calm and alert. Not as exhausted but still not motivated to leave the house and do anything! I guess it's unreasonable to expect a medication to be a panacea, especially for years of frustrating behavior/habits.

I don't think anyone (I have no idea really) suspected AD/HD in me either. I hid it. My boyfriend certainly knew there was something going on. I'm surprised I never thought of it. I'd been diagnosed as other things years ago. Tried many different antidepressants with no relief. I finally feel like there's hope for changing my life and not feeling so crazy on the inside.

Oh, thank you fmp....I don't feel AS crazy knowing there is someone else who feels the same way and is FUNCTIONING!
I wish I could talk as easily to a doctor - I got burned in my 20's when I had some therapy for "depression". About a year later I got into the police academy, and one day before I was to graduate, it was somehow discovered that I had not "disclosed" mental health treatment and I was fired. Ever since then, I won't tell anyone too much..including doctors and especially therapists. I won't even keep a journal as has been suggested by so many doctors, etc., because it's kind of the same kind of risk.

I return to my doctor on 10/11 - do you think that any change in medication would increase my motivation and energy - increase or decrease in ritalin or a different medication?

Oh goodness. That's terrible about the police academy. I'm sorry to hear about that and I understand your present trust issues. Unfortunately, I think you'll continue to have a difficult time getting the best health care (treatment and accuracy) if you're unable to be completely honest with your psychologist/psychiatrist.

I do keep a log of everytime I take my medication and any issues I have that day. For example, earlier in the week I had terrible PMDD problems. If I hadn't written them down I would've forgotten by now what day(s) and how exactly I felt. I think it would helpful if you could keep track too. I've had some paranoia before too (and still). I've burned old journals. Shredded all the "poems" I wrote in high school which would have been so helpful now (to see how I was feeling then).

There I go rambling. My point is that just a very basic journal of your progress would be helpful to you and your doctor. Even if you only use it to read to him/her and never hand it over and allow copies to be made from it.

An example from mine (very small so it fits in my purse):

9am--12.5mg of Atenolol
9:50--10mg of Ritalin
wow. Is this morning how I've been feeling for years? [note: referring to taking medication later than normal and feeling my "normal" self] No wonder I felt like I was going to have a breakdown unless something was done ASAP. So anxious, angry, mean tired. Miserable
1:10pm--10mg of Ritalin
3:30pm--10mg of Ritalin; heart bpm: 72; feel crazy today. Hormones?
6:50--crying; feel awful; must do something about PMS; heart bpm: 66

From keeping a journal I was able to:
(1) Notice that the first day of medication made me sleepy. Doesn't happen much anymore.
(2) Notice that my pulse was getting a bit high. Was able to start Atenolol (beta blocker) to keep it in check.
(3) Notice that the full dose of Atenolol made first dose of Ritalin ineffective, made me exhausted and pulse never above 55 so I started cutting it in half which works great.
(4) Notice when I had terrible PMDD issues and contacted gyn about it.
(5) Have record of pulse for when I went to cardiologist.
(6) Record whenever I felt chest pressure/pain so I could mention to doctor.
(7) Record heartrate when exercising so I knew if it was getting too high.
(8) Record side effects such as dry mouth/eyes/etc to mention to doc.
(9) Have a record of when I take doses for maximum benefit so psych. can figure out if a longer acting drug might be necessary.

I hope you'll reconsider the journal. Maybe just keep track for a few weeks with the type of basic stuff that I do. If you're as forgetful as I am it is extremely helpful to have something to refer back to to see patterns.

My journal suggestion for you:

-small notebook that fits into purse
-keep pen clipped to notebook
-keep black jawclip/paperclip at the current day so there's no flipping around for current page
-log time and amount of medication
-log any important emotional changes (e.g. "feel anxious", "grumpy")
-log physical issues (e.g. "tired", "unbearably dry eyes")
-log any notes that show improvement/poor response to medication (e.g. "felt great today until last dose wore off", "was able to read book for 20 minutes", "felt anxious and it made me snap at coworker"; "second dose never kicked in. had big lunch, could that be why?")

"I return to my doctor on 10/11 - do you think that any change in medication would increase my motivation and energy - increase or decrease in ritalin or a different medication?"-----I can't answer this. I wish I could (but then I'd know how to fix me too!) I am hoping to switch to Adderall (regular generic) this week and see if I can dose 2x/day vs the 3x/day I do now with the Ritalin.

I've read that most people find that Adderall is smoother and longer acting and doesn't have the up/down affect that Ritalin does. I'm also hoping that it might have a better effect on concentration.

My insurance company only has a few generic (read: affordable) options: methylphenidate HCL, methylphenidate SR, amphtamine salt combo tablets and dextroamphetamine. I am adamant about wanting to try my generic options before moving on to the brand name ($$$) choices. I have been without insurance and if that happens again I want my medication to be affordable. If this is a concern of yours or you're just curious about what your insurance company covers look on their website for their formulary. Print it out and take it with you to appointments.

Know that you're not alone. Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like. There's probably a lot more I want to tell you but I've simply forgotten (as usual). :)

I was the same.A ball of nerves on the inside and sleepy on the out!My doctor said it was very common (he has treated)for that.Like being really sleepy but trying to keep yourself awake.

I spent all weekend between the chair in front of the TV and the computer, I'd watch TV for about 30 minutes (that's the most I've been able to do that for in a long time), then I'd get on the computer for awhile, I didn't have the energy/motivation to do ANYTHING - now here I am at work, I'll do something small, check my email, something small, check something else on the internet, check my email..... I'm SOOOO tired - yet so anxious on the inside.
Is it the ritalin? Am I taking too much...too little?? I'm miserable.

By the way FMP - I did try the "journaling" thing yesterday - then I promptly ripped it up and threw it away. Can't do it. I know it's crazy but I absolutely can't write or say anything that someone might find out. That's why I've never been successful in therapy and why I've been misdiagnosed so many times.

Dorothy,I won't even start to make assumptions about the diagnosis as it would be stupidity to do so,but have you thought about,or had a health check up?
It's possible there might be health problems making your symptoms worse,there are also other conditions such as depression which can exaserbate the symptoms also,definately worth getting it checked into more.


As for anti social,it isn't a diagnostic trait for AD/HD,but it can be a personality trait,a learned behavior,or a choice......it can be a part of anything.

Is it that you find you are unable to relate to people? you don't like having random conversations with people? or are you shy and just prefer your own company?

Wow,

fixmeplease, those were excellent suggestions. Thanks for posting them.

I have had check ups regularly - but again, since I have such a hard time talking to doctors about my feelings - unless they are a mindreader, I'll never know what's wrong. I'm sure I have a lot of things going on and trying to self diagnose myself just makes me crazier. I have had good effects from the ritalin - my thoughts are not as "jumpy", I don't get as aggravated when people talk to me for more than 5 minutes (I've actually been nice!) Seems so far to have totally curbed my impulsivity and ability to "think before talking or acting". I just feel kind of weak, my body is tired but my insides are wide awake - and my leg is always bouncing up and down, that hasn't stopped. I have absolutely no motivation.

As for the anti-social aspect, I can't really say why I am this way, I haven't always been this way. I have NO symptoms of agoraphobia, no "fear" about going out and will go out shopping, etc.. but have been very impulsive with spending money - hoping ritalin has curbed that for good.

I just have zero energy. I also have no problem at all going to sleep at night, even if I've taken a ritalin as late as an hour or two before bed.

I spent all weekend between the chair in front of the TV and the computer, I'd watch TV for about 30 minutes (that's the most I've been able to do that for in a long time), then I'd get on the computer for awhile, I didn't have the energy/motivation to do ANYTHING - now here I am at work, I'll do something small, check my email, something small, check something else on the internet, check my email..... I'm SOOOO tired - yet so anxious on the inside.
Is it the ritalin? Am I taking too much...too little?? I'm miserable. ;) That's how my entire weekend went too. Not fun. I've always been puzzled as to how "everyone" can throw themselves on the couch and veg out for hours. Read a book. Lay in bed and enjoy the silence. I just can't. I gave up on doing anything interesting/productive yesterday and decided to watch an action movie (something I never do) just to distract myself from myself. :p I'm not joking: It took me seven hours to get through the two hour movie (all the pausing and wandering off to do absolutely nothing).

I'm at work. Feeling like a failure and accomplishing not much of anything. Again, I just want you to know that you're not alone (and it makes me feel better to know that I'm not!)

I'm not sure about the Ritalin. The first day I took it I felt kinda sleepy. I feel better on it now but still not great. Alert yet tired. And I think I metabolize fast. Have you called your doctor to ask their opinion on this? Are you eating well and drinking lots of water?

I'm not trying to be funny but would you consider keeping a medication journal in code?

269
9
12T,AN
3NH

I wrote the date as a number indicating what day of the year it is. Below is a link for that.
http://isotropic.org/uw/date/

The next numbers are the approximate hour of dosage and T is for tired, AN is for anxious and NH is for not helping.

I mean, do it however works for you. But this way you could still keep a record that would likely be meaningless to anyone that found it(?). You could hold onto long enough to read it to your doctor, then burn/shred/shoot it into space if you'd like.

I started keeping the journal not only to help me (b/c of my forgetfulness) but because I thought it would show my doctors that I'm serious about this.

Have you mentioned your paranoia and trust issues with your doctor?

mctavish23: Thank you!

I wouldn't have a problem keeping a medication journal - that's no biggie, it's talking about my feelings and myself that I can't do. I haven't called my doctor yet, he told me to "play" with the dosage until it felt right, but I don't know in which direction to go and I don't want to call him just yet - I'm trying to give it a chance. I did call the pharmacy this weekend and the pharmacist told me to ask my doctor..... lot of help, huh?

Okay. Well keeping track of the medication is worthwhile. You'll be able to see how long the dosage is effective for you (by how often you're taking it), how much you needed to increase/decrease it, etc. So start with that for now.

It seems a bit odd that the doctor didn't offer more specific information on how to "play" with the dosage. It's great that he trusts you to do so but a bit unhelpful if you're not sure if you need more/less. :\

Post in the Ritalin forum. Tell them how long you've been taking it, what dosage you're taking (and if you've always taken that or if you've increased/decreased), how often, how long it seems to be effective for you, side effects, what relief it's providing you, etc.

Someone should be able to advise you if it sounds like more or less would be a possible improvement or if they felt the same way and "x" medication worked better for them. It'll be anecdotal but better than just completely guessing.

I use to have a hard time talking to doctors too.When I finally just let go and let myself cry and be a open book I got a good reaction, the bond between me and my doctor bloomed.
He took a more personal look into my treatments and I can really tell he has a sincere personal intrest in helping me.
They need to see the diffrent sides to you.They cant help you if you dont.Its like a shot in the dark!Fumbling through diffrent treatments and hitting walls.
Hes not gonna think your crazy,at least I hope not!!!!!He sure shouldnt!

I know exactly what you are talking about.
I was dx as an adult 11 years ago. I have inattentive type ADD with mild clinical depression.
I recently went back on my meds 2 months ago.
I have tried, Concerta 54 (can't take it)
Focalin, nope didn't work either.
Now I am on 40mg Adderall XR.
Works great!
Except, I told my doc, my give a crap is still broken?
I don't have much energy or care about somethings I know I should.
Mainly at home.
I do fine at work.
So he did put me on vitamins like you, he also suggested Flaxseed oil.
5cc 2 times a day. Good for depression.
He said after 6 weeks if not helping he gave me a script for 25mg of Zoloft
I said I am tired of feeling this way, I am not waiting 6 weeks I am doing both.
This is the first week.
I have been faithful to use them both everyday.
I do take the Zoloft at night so I don't have the side effects.

The best thing to do is just keep trying different things until you find something that works for you. If you have a Doc that isn't willing to do that, then find one that will. My doc has the same beliefs I do. He has no problems with trying people on everything he can, including herbal treatments.
We are all so different.
Our individual ADD's are as different as we are.
What works for one, doesn't work for others.
I wish you the best on your adventure.
Glad you found a place in our world, here!

Hope

Man i still have trouble talking to docs even after seven years. I always feel like its my fault that i have add. I just try to think of them as just another person and let them know what i am feeling. Sometimes i end up a stuttering moron but that gets the point accross to i think. Yeah, i hope you find a good doc and get the help you need. There are so many people on this site who know alot about ADD stick around and meet them, hell that article at the begining of the post i didnt know that until a minute ago. Best of luck
Pith

Dorothy, I can relate to your symptoms and your reluctance to share how you feel. I don't know how old you are, but I know I personally have spent most of my life trying to appear as normal and competent as possible. That's a hard thing to give up. I waffle about telling doctors about even basic physical symptoms, because I don't want to be seen as a whiner or a hypochondriac. So it's doubly difficult to talk to anyone about what's going on in my head -- plus, I can never remember all the stuff I would want to say anyway, if I wasn't so reluctant to appear not totally in control.

About the fatigue -- have you had your thyroid checked? I've had it done periodically and it's come out normal, but I've read that even levels that are classified as "normal" can be "not normal" on an individual basis (but, of course, you'd have to find an open-minded doc to dig deeper there).

Also, what about anemia? I've been mildly anemic at times, and it does take its toll on energy levels. And are you getting enough -- and the right kind -- of sleep? One doctor I saw theorized that, for years, I haven't been getting into the deep, fulfilling stage of sleep, and she gave me a sleeping pill Rx. It worked wonders, and I was able to break my body's habit of not "letting go" all the way (maybe it is/was a "mom" thing?) I only take them now as needed -- once or twice a week or even less.

Just some thoughts. I hope you get it all worked out. You deserve some relief.

OMG, Dorothy. When i read your first post. My eyes just about jumped out of my head. I am no joke, so much similar to yourself. I am just trying to build up the confidence to see my doctor. because yeah i'm not one to express exactly how it is inside probably not to look like a complete idiot if its something else. Also I am like lightning on the inside yet lack the ability to actually apply with the feelings. I have only a few friends and even then i have fallings out a lot of the time. Mostly to missunderstanding from their part. And yeah, so much more. but i'm not going to go into everything. I'm so glad though reading the posts above because it feels so great to know there is someone else out there who is feeling similar to me. I hope we can chat sometime and see how your going. THANK YOU!!!!

Sometimes if I write things down ahead of time, it helps me stay organzied and more to the point

hey dorothy!

your me lol!

i have read everything on this page and its really helped me i was a confused about if i had ADD and i wasnt hyperactive also! and as a child at school i went throu the same, really bad at maths but excellent in Art and quite good at English!lol i was alos a very social person about 2 years ago, very popular but NOW, im the total opposite its like i cant get myself back!

so just so you know, im going thro the same, your not alone :)