HELP! I am at my wits end! I love my son dearly but he is driving me crazy! He is a very sweet (normally) smart little boy! his 'rituals' are driving us all to the brink. It started last year, but we just chalked it up to 'everythng at once' he got a new baby sister, started kindergarten, promoted to 1st grade, mom went back to work from maternity leave. Thats alot to happen to a child in a few weeks time. Then the jealously of a new baby, etc it didnt hep that she had colic. ANyway, the year progressed and it was a living hell for all of us, I dreaded summer vacation because I knew it would be a constant fight. To my amazement- 1st day of summer break, he went back to his sweet loving self! I didnt realize ho much I missed my little boy! School started and we are back to being miserable. The tantrums, the bedtime rituals, if things arent done just right, it ends up being a yelling match. We have always been against medication, feeling that it is just a band-aid, but these scenerios are gtting worse each night, now we are at the point- GIVE THIS KID SOME MEDS! I have talked to the school counsellor. Keeping in mind, he is Dr, Jekyl and Mr Hyde, a sweet loving child at school and with his friends, and their parents, but at home with mom and dad.... completely opposite. anyway, possible OCD, we finally got an appointment with a counsellor. we try to remember that he is just a kid, but I can not take it. I need a way to understand and do whatever I need to sdo to help him. I do not want him to grow up to abuse alcohol or drugs or turn into a serial killer (Ok I DO watch alot of Lifetime movies) . I do not know what to do, we have tried taking privilages, playdates, computersm video games. We did the time outs and naughty corner. NOTHING WORKS! Can anyone offer any advise or wisdom?

Well, if it helps, individuals with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder are much, much less likely to actually do things like abuse alcohol or drugs, and even less likely to become serial killers, especially if the obsession is about something like that.

The counselor should be able to help here. I don't know what the rituals are, so I'm not sure I can guess as to what might be going on here. As an individual with very intense OCD that gets better and worse depending (even now, when I have very few symptoms regarding obsessions and compulsions, I touch certain things as I walk by, I won't step on cracks or things like this, and I keep some things in order).

Punishing an individual with OCD for performing compulsions he finds necessary to alleviate obsessive thoughts doesn't seem like good practice...it may just intensify the anxiety and the need to perform the compulsion. Even now if I don't, for example, check my door after I lock it, I'll be very distraught for a long time, and I'm currently well enough to be off medicine.

First of all, kids being angels at school and then turning into an aliens speicies at home is not that rare. kids let go in a safe environment where there are not peers to witness and make fun of them. I personally see this more with kids that are very smart and have higher than norm reasoning skills.
The more stress a child is under the more routines and structure they crave. If your not wanting to do meds, I'd suggest looking into sensory issues. There should be some posts in the parenting section on this topic. Without knowing your child it would be hard to advise on this, but kids who have other disorders, often have sensory issues too. Straightening them out a bit may help relieve some of the anxiety and/or stress the child is feeling.
If your really against meds it would be worth looking into. I also have to agree with Keith and think that the harder you push the issue, the more stress you'll create and the more cumpulsions you'll see.

Jaycee, all very true, and many are the times I would think to myself with gritted teeth, "Acting out a home and being an angel at school is a good thing. Acting out a home and being an angel..."
My 3 were/are all smart and all somewhat OCD, at least one with ADHD tendencies, none medicated.

Speaking from my own childhood experience, any negative input about the compulsion made me do it more. It felt (feel) like I am using the compulsion to punish myself for being bad by acting on the compulsion. Such thought loops are not part of a path toward putting the compulsion to rest.
Maybe that's why I obessively (and empathetically, maybe?) told my kids endless bedtime stories (about talking flowers and their lives) for hours on end, before finally saying "no more" to their desire to extend the ritual.

Thanks all. At the time with the punishments, we just thought he was misbehaving , not that he had ocb. The ritual is that you have to say goodnight a certain way, a play, if you will. If you do not say something correctly... that's it- meltdown. I try but sometimes its so rushed. Luckily he has always been on a schedule, as a baby naps were at a certain time, bedtime is consistant. Other parents let their chldren stay up late on weekends, or whatever, he always has the same bedtime, we try to keep everything pretty regular and routine.

Reading up on this, I did see that back to school and things like that can trigger responses. I guess at first we were in denial, or maybe we just didnt realize what was actually happening because of all of the changes. We just told oursleves, he is just spoiled and used to always getting his way, etc. Looking back at my own childhood, I ALWAYS did my homework the second I got home from school, I would complete the full years spelling assignments within the 1st week, if my homework wasn't perfect I would get frustrated. Even growing up- I see that I had some obsessive tendencies and behaviors. I guess I grew out of them, Now things that would have driven me crazy 10 years ago, its like- whatever. I thought I was simply a perfectionist. But reading up on this I see that I must have had it, as well. I don't know.

HE is really not wanting to go to the counsellor tomorrow- but I have to stick to my guns and KNOW that I am doing what is best for him, like any parent I want him to be a happy healthy well adjusted child/person.

ALso his 1st grade teacher categorized him as gifted, and he has many of the quirky bahaviors listed there. He is a very bright little boy with this very dark cloud over him

I am wondering if he is expressing a need for "sameness" and sudden environmental change is throwing him into a tailspin... in such a scenario rituals might offer some sort of feeling of control in the face of what seems to him to be a lot of chaos. You might also want to be sure he is actually swallowing his meds and not spitting them out when your back is turned....

Me :D

We had our 1st counselling session today- more of an intake, really. She said we were taking positive steps and seems to think its stress induced ocd (since it is more prominent during the school year) She seems to think that we would be possibly successful with therapy and some at home exercises. as I write this my son is now having another meltdown in the other room with my husband. What set him off tonight is that he said good night to me (and did the bedtime ritual correctly) but he realized he did it without his socks! Okay I am back... I just stepped out and by some good grace was able to calm him down. My husband has had it. He is ready to walk out of the house, been there myself. We just need to find some solution to calm him before he gets to the meltdown point, because when we get there - there is no turning back.

One of the things is to have him change the ritual himself. At some other time (not bedtime) discuss this with him and ask him if there is something that can change and if he will try to be okay with little things...like the socks. Sometimes giving them the control over what's changing helps. he may need reminders before bedtime that HE has chosen to let things be a bit different.

this may or may not work but it'd be worth a try.

Thanks...

I also have stress induced ocd. Most of the time it is not so bad for me. I did go into a loop on one occasion, but that was after the death of a loved one...etc.

For me, controlling anxiety helps keep the ocd in check... This includes managing environmental problems as well as sensory inputs, along with appropriate medication.

I wish you and your child well.

Me :D


We had our 1st counselling session today- more of an intake, really. She said we were taking positive steps and seems to think its stress induced ocd (since it is more prominent during the school year) She seems to think that we would be possibly successful with therapy and some at home exercises. as I write this my son is now having another meltdown in the other room with my husband. What set him off tonight is that he said good night to me (and did the bedtime ritual correctly) but he realized he did it without his socks! Okay I am back... I just stepped out and by some good grace was able to calm him down. My husband has had it. He is ready to walk out of the house, been there myself. We just need to find some solution to calm him before he gets to the meltdown point, because when we get there - there is no turning back.

Thank you, tonight went much better. I tried (as ridiculous as it sounds) talking to him like he was 2 again, catered to him like when he was much younger, and that really helped- no tantrum, no meltdown, PLEASANT!

Thank you all for your well wishes, its nice to know we arent the only ones out there!

With new things happening in the household he may just need the reassurance that he's still a big part of your life and that he can have you undivided attention.

I'm glad to see that things went well and if talking to him like he was two again ( and still the center of your life) makes things easier..go for it. It sounds like it helped with the ritualistic behavior which means he felt more secure in his world and his place in yours.

we shall see tonight. wish me luck all! And YES he is the biggest part of my life- I go out of my way to have mommy and me time, but then he gets too busy with his friends, video games or the computer!

I think that's every kid. Mine want my undivided attention for all of two minutes. Then they think of something they'd rather do. They still like to know that they can come back if they want.

I know, but suddenly almost overnight they suddenly do not need us, and we go from 'mommy' to mom. Then we discover something like this- and I feel like such a failure, I should have seen that it wasnt spiteful behavior. I know you are all going to tell me it isnt my fault because its chemical inbalance, but there are still the feelings of blame, did I eat something wrong while I was pregnant? Is it because I missed that prenatal vitamin? Am I doing something wrong with raising him? Are these normal thoughts of parents with a child with ocd?

These are normal thoughts for any parent that has a child that deals with any diagnosis. There are few days that I don't feel guilty for passing on hereditary conditions or creating emotional scars. It breaks my heart to think that I'll be the discussion when and if they need therapy. The thing that I try to focus on is that there are some issues that I understand and relate to and I can share my experiences. Anything outside of my knowledge I devour every bit of information I can and share it with them. All you can do is your best and let your children know JUST how much you love them by doing everything you can to help them...which I feel you ARE doing. :)

Thank you, I try my best to do what is best for him, but sometimes you question yourself. Like you said- I dont wantto leave him with scars and be teh main topic at therapy! Sounds like knowledge is the key!

I think it's pretty normal to feel guilty about any kind of disability your child has. I look at my kids especially my 5 year old that inherited every bad thing that either my husband or I have... Migrains, ADHD, SID, Sleep disorder, allergies.. and think if I'd hadn't married someone with ADHD my kids would have had a better chance. Then I remember that I wouldn't have MY kids. They would be totally different. A good friend of mine teasingly asked if I'd had Mountain Dew when I was pregnagnt with Caleb. I didn't although I did drink small amounts of caffeine, but immediately I felt hugely guilty. She didn't day it to hurt, but it did.
At some point you have to cut yourself some slack. You have to realize that you have the ability to make his life easier by educating yourself and making the best decisions for him. The more knowledge you have, the easier it is to make good choices and the right parenting skills for him. That's the best any of us can do as parents. So stop feeling guilty and be happy that you have him. Everytime I start to get really deep in guilt I look at a friend whose tried everything outside of adopting overseas to have a child. It really helps me suck it up.

BB,

I really hate to throw a monkey wrench in what seems to be working for your family and I'm probably just putting my foot in my mouth.

But just have to speak up and say 2 psychiatrists and 1 counselor all advised me NOT to join in our son's 'rituals'.
Just for instance I'll add that his dad DOES follow-thru with his rituals-- saying goodbye takes at least 5 minutes, but I won't repeat certain phrases, etc until it feels right to him.

I have given in to help him, say in public I will touch him (hold hands or put arm around shoulder) to help him out of a walking ritual he gets stuck into.

I have a friend who grew up in a household of everyone catering to her OCD/hoarder brother and she swears it, the OCD controls the whole family. She got out of the house as soon as possible. She remembers though it started in small increments and her brother was never taken to a professional until high school age and feels it was too late then. Honestly her family's whole day revolves around her now 25 year-old brothers rituals, from having groceries delivered to the house, to trails in each room surrounded by STUFF, new boxes everywhere etc.

I'm NOT saying you are doing anything wrong, at all. I would just like to relay the advice I was given and plead with you to continue seeking help for your son.
He's so young still so much of his actions/meltdowns can be chalked up to his age.
But it wouldn't hurt to have hubby also go along to get help with his reaction to your son's meltdowns.

Breaks my heart to say that my son's dad is pretty much not trusted by our son mainly due to his reaction of loud blustery verbal anger/frustration, don't know if he'll ever win the trust he lost this last year. Good ol' dad really believed the school who preached tough love and your kid will get with the program.

Sorry rambling, I really FEEL for you cause we're living this from a parents viewpoint, too.

I really like the posts you've received on this thread and Jaycee's advice especially about making your son feel "more secure in his world and his place in yours"

:foot:

You now Charlie, I agree with that, I did try to NOT give into the rituals, and I have read that it only makes matters worse. But at this point, I am so stressed and I do have a one year old daughter to also think about. It is so unhealthy for her to see and experience these meltdowns, so for the moment, I will stick to the ritual as we try to alter it. WE are taking a break from karate, to see if that eases the stress- maybe he is involved in too many things. Talked to his Sensi, and he agreed to allow him to take a month off to see if that helps. (for the record my son is ok with this, his only problem with it is that he doesnt want the older children to outrank him!) If it helps, then maybe we will keep it as a summer activity, if not and he wants to continue, that is fine too- taking a break was a family decision including my son! Basically stuck between a rock and a hard place, we tried not giving in, but the meltdown is just too much to bear. Besides as long as the rituals arent 'extreme', it might be ok to cater to it - its easier now that I understand WHY we have these rituals.

My husband did go to the intake with us, unfortunately due to his work schedule he may not be able to make all of the meetings. That is ok, he is a wonderful dad and takes such an active role. He is the more patient parent too.

I agree- i appreciate all of the wonderful advice and support I am getting here- thank you all so much!

I can only imagine what your child is experiencing. From what I have experienced it is so unpleasant. I never quite meltdown copletely, I just get overwhelmed enough to withdraw.
You and yours have my sympathy.

It is all about load managmement. A friend of mine has a son with SID, and he has learned to help his 3 year old son manage his sensory issues and it has made a big difference. (He is one cute kid) It is a ton of work, but once you understand that what you son is experiencing is real and not "all in his head" you have a basis for understanding what he needs to cope with and to work around the sensory problems he has to face all day, every day.

Just keep at it. You can not imagine the huge positive difference you are making in your child's life.


Me :D

I may have mentioned something in a earlier post about sensory issues, but I agree with speedo that you may be able to calm some of the anxiety issues that feed OCD with sensory integration therapy. There is a mini forum dedicated to it here that has a lot of great info.

I am applying my experiences here. I may or may not have sensory issues in exactly the same way as your son.

For me, a big sensory load leads to stress, and that causes anxiety
and then I have ocd because I am very stressed and too scattered to think.

It can take hours for me to reduce my stress levels after a big sensory load like going to a crowded , noisy restaurant, or watching fireworks. I might enjoy those things but they still stress me and I need to recover from it before I take on more big loads.

Maybe creating a nice comfy , cool, quiet, dimly lit place for you child to "spin down" in after a big thing like going to a movie or to a busy restaurant??

For me, controlling the anxiety and reducing my sensory load are essential. If I do that, I do not have a problem with OCD.

Your mielage may vary....

Me :D

We don't really go to busy restaurants, actually we RARELY go, there are things he calls "gagables" maybe its someone chewing with their mouth open, or a baby, or a fly, whatever, but they make him gag. Once we were at a restuarant and a couple with a baby sat at the table across from us- he literally vomited at the sight of the baby. (that was about the last time we ate at a restaurant. He is ok with his sister (as long as she isn't eating baby food) ANyway... my book order came in today, and rather than readingthe ones I ordered for US, I read the book I bought for him. (thought that my husband and I should read it to screen prior to allowing him to do so) It's called UP AND DOWN THE WORRY HILL. EXCELLENT book! It s about a boy and all of his OCD quirks, and it prepares them for the visit to the doctor regarding it and basically assures them they did nothing wrong and that they are NOT the only one out there. My only concern with allowing him to read it is that the child in the book has many many many quirks, and I don't want to plant any ideas in his head. Has anyone read the book? Any advice on that one? If someone has OCD - honestly after reading any stories here as well as the research I have done, I would say my son has a milder case.. would reading about another childs quirks maybe intensify his own quirks? Please forgive my ignorance, I am just trying to understand from HIS point of view. Thelast thing I want to do is intensify things...

I hope you find a solution. It sounds like you're being so patient with him. I read that when kids go through major changes, like a younger sibling or starting school, etc, they may regress due to the stress, and need to regroup before they can carry on coping. Sounds like there's a little of that, his being better when you talked to him as if he were 2 again--maybe he misses being 2 and not having to go off to school, no sister to share you with, no need to be a responsible boy and behave all day at school. My daughter was pretty much like that, and still likes to be with me so she can just totally relax and not have to deal with other people's expectations.

Didn't you say he was promoted from kindergarten to first grade? I got the impression that was during the school year, not from one year to another. If so that could be hard, being a little bit less socially prepared than the other kids in his class are. It might be harder on him at this age than it would in high school, for example, to have a year's difference between him and the other kids. We let our daughter start first grade a year early because she was already reading fluently, and she was always talking about the year's difference until she got to high school. I don't think that itself was a big problem for her, but since she was so aware of it, it must have meant something to her, bothered her in some way.

When my daughter was small I remember reading that when they get stressed out or misbehave, they don't really understand what they're doing, it's just the only way they can deal with situations where they have no control and don't understand what's going on, and it's their way of getting some control of their lives. I think someone mentioned that in a previous post. But the point that I think about a lot is that it's wrong to be upset with them because they're just being little children, can't help what they're doing, don't have any other way of dealing with life. I wish I'd seen that earlier. I don't think you will ever regret doing what you're doing, because you seem very sensitive to his needs and you're trying in every way you can to help him.

It's easy to look back and see patterns, and analyze it, but when you're in the midst of it all you just have to do the best you can. And that's what you're doing. Please keep us posted, and good luck with it all.

Thank you. YEs he was promoted from kindergarten to garde 1 after about a week and a half. He was actually bored in 1st grade with the work,a s well. His teacher said he is gifted, and some things he was doing in class, tapping jis pencil, etc. she explained were traits of gifted children, so we also kind of chalked it up to that as well. He is very mature for his age, but his neighbor friends range from younger to older so 5-8. But he seems really happy in school and he is doing great, he was at the top of his first grade class, and he was placed in the advanced class. As of last November he was at a 6th grade reading level with ease and was able to do 7th grade with self correction. Haven't had our parent teacher conference yet this year, so it will be interesting to see how he has progressed. As far as age being off, the cut off age here is June or July, his birthday is in November, so its not a huge age gap


actually this morning while he was brushing his teeth before school I remembered when he was about 2, and he had this routine, we had to line his 'friends' (stuffed animals) outside the bathroom, pretend to brush their teeth one by one, then "bubble gum' them (before I could trust that he would use the floride rinse, I would brush it on his teeth) and line them back up, the go pu them back- again 1 by 1, we couldnt take more than one or mess up the order or we would have to start the WHOLE thing over. Then he'd get brushed and have to throw the cap down all of he stairs (we lived in a tri level at the time) then throw the rinse cup in his playhouse OUTSIDE. Looking back, he always has these little routines, but they didnt lead to the meltdown. I am sure that his sister has contributed to the stress.
Our 1st REAL counselling session is today and he is okay with going to it, so it's great that I don't have that battle to deal with.

I will keep you posted. I am very optimistic about dealing with this without meds.

Okay- I really need some advice now. Counselling went great- he had a great time with her. He didnt want to be alone- and she said it was ok for me to stay in the room. HE was in a great mood, everything was terrific. He can not wait for his next session. HOWEVER, we get home and again with the meltdown. WHY? HE tends to leave games run on the pc, so he went to download his favorite song and the computer didnt cooperate, so my husband proceeded to reboot the computer- THAT WAS IT! He lost it, then he started finding fault in EVERYTHING- one day on his lunch calender wasnt circled. (we go through the menu and he decides what days he wants to eat at school, and what days we pack his lunch) Ironically HE forgot the new menu at school Friday so we didn't even review Monday- we started on Tuesday. Then he wanted candy- but didnt want to eat food first. (we dont allow candy after a certain time before bed) then one thing after the other, he started to hit, oh excuse me first he threatened to hit, my husband went outside with my daughter- I took him in my arms (not a light load either) hugged him, held him, rocked him, tried to calm him down but it was too too late. Nothing I said, nothing I did, worked I think it made it worse. So hubby comes back in with our daughter, my son starts to hit him, over and over again, he left the roomagain, now my daughter is hysterical- she has no clue what is going on. I am seriously at my wits end. so my dilemma today is- he has been to 2 sessions, after BOTH he has had the WORST meltdowns he has ever had. Now what? Do I continue with the counsellor? I can not handle this, no matter how hard I try. Earlier in the day we talked about the ocd and I explained that his brain has the hiccups and there is a way to just talk back to it and tell it to go away. He was fine with it until he started the freak out then he was like- thats not true, there is no such thing.... my husband said the counselling isnt doing any good, and I admit it seems to be making things worse, but on the other hand, we really havent given it enough time to make that determination. again I am caught between a rock and a hard place. ADVICE PLEASE!!!!

This stuff taks a long time to work through. It got better for a little bit, and maybe next ime it will be better a little longer. I think your child just wants his world to be in order, because if it isin't in order it is scarey because it is hard to understand. It soulds like he got overwhelmed and lost control. Even fun things create stress and anxiety and it has the same effect as if something unhappy happened to create the stress. If he gets overwhelmed he falls into chaos internally and he ends up with a first class meltdown that is as upleasant for him as it is for you.

He is trying as best he can and it is going to take a while for him to develop the skill he needs to see trouble coming and mitigate his condition. As his family you can help him to spot the things that overwhenm him. You don't have to protect him from the whole world, but he sure could use your help in spotting and working around all the difficult bits. This is not going to be easy, but what choice do you have ?

just my two cents worth

Me



Okay- I really need some advice now. Counselling went great- he had a great time with her. He didnt want to be alone- and she said it was ok for me to stay in the room. HE was in a great mood, everything was terrific. He can not wait for his next session. HOWEVER, we get home and again with the meltdown. WHY? HE tends to leave games run on the pc, so he went to download his favorite song and the computer didnt cooperate, so my husband proceeded to reboot the computer- THAT WAS IT! He lost it, then he started finding fault in EVERYTHING- one day on his lunch calender wasnt circled. (we go through the menu and he decides what days he wants to eat at school, and what days we pack his lunch) Ironically HE forgot the new menu at school Friday so we didn't even review Monday- we started on Tuesday. Then he wanted candy- but didnt want to eat food first. (we dont allow candy after a certain time before bed) then one thing after the other, he started to hit, oh excuse me first he threatened to hit, my husband went outside with my daughter- I took him in my arms (not a light load either) hugged him, held him, rocked him, tried to calm him down but it was too too late. Nothing I said, nothing I did, worked I think it made it worse. So hubby comes back in with our daughter, my son starts to hit him, over and over again, he left the roomagain, now my daughter is hysterical- she has no clue what is going on. I am seriously at my wits end. so my dilemma today is- he has been to 2 sessions, after BOTH he has had the WORST meltdowns he has ever had. Now what? Do I continue with the counsellor? I can not handle this, no matter how hard I try. Earlier in the day we talked about the ocd and I explained that his brain has the hiccups and there is a way to just talk back to it and tell it to go away. He was fine with it until he started the freak out then he was like- thats not true, there is no such thing.... my husband said the counselling isnt doing any good, and I admit it seems to be making things worse, but on the other hand, we really havent given it enough time to make that determination. again I am caught between a rock and a hard place. ADVICE PLEASE!!!!

Pleasant things can be stressful, like getting married, starting a new job you like, etc--not just things you don't like. Change is stressful, and new things, even if you choose them, can be stressful. So even though he's happy about the counseliing, even though he wants to go, and benefits from it, maybe it's awakening some awareness within his mind, of some issues, an awareness that he can't deal with.

When my daughter was in first grade her cousin came to stay with us for a year, and even though my daughter was very happy about it, it meant that I didn't have as much time for her as previously, because we had to deal with paperwork, picking the cousin up from school, talking to the cousin, etc--and my daughter was accustomed to having all of my attention, exclusively, especially since we were living in the US and her father was living overseas. So we went from it being just the two of us to a third person who definitely took away some of the intensive attention she had been getting from me. Remember that she repeatedly said that she was happy about the cousin staying with us, but within a couple of weeks she started having meltdowns, kicking me, biting me,screaming at me. I tried disciplining her, having her sit on the stairs for timeout, etc, but nothing worked. I was so worried and it was so disruptive and insane that I quit my job and stayed home, because it was all so stressful to me that I couldn't deal with work anyway, and so that I could pick her up from school myself and have that extra hour or so with her before we picked up the cousin. It helped absolutely--within a week or so things calmed down.

I think that you're doing everything you can think of to help him, and I was really touched by your picking him up and loving him. But what you think is enough to solve the problem probably just isn't enough for him. Maybe he's exceptionally needy, emotionally, at this time. There's no meter that can measure what he needs and give you a readout. And even though he says, and believes, that he's happy about being advanced a grade, maybe there is stress associated with that, things he doesn't realize are problems.

After all, many times we have a problem and don't realize that it's something that can be solved, we just think that that's the way things are, for us, and for everyone. We don't realize that other people don't have these problems, these feelings. I never realized that some of the problems I have with ADD were solvable, I just thought I had to live with them. And my daughter couldn't express that she just needed extra attention, that she wasn't getting enough attention after the cousin came to stay with us. After all, she was really excited and happy about it, looked forward to it, talked about it all the time. But there was something about it that she couldn't identify, that upset her and frustrated her and enraged her, and apparently the only way she could cope with it was to lash out and attack me. She couldn't tell me what was wrong in words, the only way she could express her despair was through that completely uncharacteristic, enraging, behavior.

Our minds, especially children's, aren't linear computers that can rationally analyze and come up with an explanation. I remember that my inner life when I was a kid was very confusing. I did my homework, etc, did well in school, but there were so many things I didn't understand, and never did understand until I got older. Things that I didn't notice, things that were going on that I was completely unaware of. Didn't understand why certain things happened when they did. Maybe it was the ADD, and maybe I was just unaware. But my reading level was five or six years ahead of my peers, and so was my daughter's level. I remember that while she was growing up she would suddenly ask me about something we had seen in the car hundereds of times, but she would ask about it as if that were the first time she'd ever seen it. I don't think that intelligence has anything to do with it. Your son probably has wonderful, mysterious things going on in his brain which you only get a little glimpse of. I think you need to just be there and do everything you can to reassure him that everything will be ok, no matter what he does, because you will love him forever and ever and will take care of him and he will be safe with you. And you will protect him from the world, too, and he can trust you to always trust him and respect him.

I would continue with the counselling, unless he wants to stop. And be prepared for him to change his mind. It may be hard for him to decide what he wants to do--and I wouldn't make that a problem for him. Just take him when he wants to go, and don't take him if he doesn't want to. I know that would be hard, but little kids can't be expected to fit into our adult schedules and restrictions. He needs you to put him first and nurture him. It really sounds like he's trying to get some control over his life, and revert back to a simpler time (which we all wish we could do from time to time).

I know that I don't know enough about psychology etc. But looking back, the only thing I regret about the way I raised my daughter was not realizing that she was always as good as she could be--loving and conscientious. But sometimes it wasn't easy for her, and she needed patience. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had been even more patient with her--and at the time we had this problem I couldn't see anything better that I could have done.

As far as the computer upsetting him, it reminds me of my daughter--one time she got so mad at the computer that she kicked the glass door of a bookcase in her fury, broke the glass, cut her foot, and had to be taken to the emergency room. So the computer episode sounds pretty normal to me. We adults get frustrated with computers, and we understand them better than kids do. I read recently that people tend to throw the computers or keyboards around when they get frustrated. So try to keep his computer working smoothly for the next couple of years--it will keep your life going more smoothly!

I think I'm just saying the same thing Speedo is, but not so efficiently. Best of luck, keep us posted. And as long as you're dealing with him with love and patience, everything will be ok. He may just need more TLC than some other kids do, or more than you thought he would need. Orchids require different care, and more of it, that some more common flowers. But the results are worth the trouble!

Babyboy-
I have had OCD since I was 5 years old. For my parents to have known and been able to help/get me help with this would have been incredible. Have you talked to a therapist besides the school counselor? A good school counselor should be able to provide you with a referral for your child to a child therapist in your area. A school counselor in this situation should be best utilized as a starting place, a stepping stone. You need to talk with a therapist who specializes in clinical treatment of childhood issues.

If OCD is part of the scene for your child, then what you are dealing with on the surface is only a small window into what frightening things your child may be dealing with inside himself. For instance, the motivation behind a child's rigidity to adhering to a particular order of things may be an underlying feeling that "if I do not do this exactly so, then something horrible will undoubtedly happen to the people close to me."

Below are the titles of several books. I would pick one or two that you are able to find in your area. I tried to find some that would include descriptions of Expose/Response Prevention Therapy (ERP). ERP Therapy is VERY effective in treating Obsessive Compulsive Disorders. The difficult part for a parent is that you will without doubt observe higher levels of anxiety and upset from your child in the course of healing. I encourage you that it is worth it for your child and yourself. OCD can be an enslaving disorder. I encourage you to find a child therapist in your area and get assistance.
kdog

Books:
Freedom from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder: A Personalized Recovery Program for Living with Uncertainty by Jonathon Grayson, PhD.

Treatment of OCD in Chidren & Adolescents: A Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Manual
by Aureen Pinto Wagner, PhD.

Freeing Your Child from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder: A Powerful Program for Parents of Children and Adolescents by Tamar E. Chansky, PhD.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder: Help for Children and Adolescents by Mitzi Waltz

I am really losing it. last night was the worst! Ihe was so out of control, what used to be bedtime rituals is now expanding to other areas. I made an apt with a nerologist- cant see us until DEC 21st! I couldnt log on last night because I was so upset and shaking s badly from the stress. I want to leave this house, just take my daughter and leave. I lost it with him, things escalatedd so I much, e was saying he wanted to kill me and I KNOW responded wrong, I KNOW It and I feel so terrible. I am the worst parent in the world, I told him to go ahead so then I wouldnt have to deal with these meltdowns. How could I say that to him? I am so tired I was up all night agonizing over it, splittingheadache from the crying. I am actually dreading the weekend! I am actually sick to my stomach.... still. last night was about his friend. I was to go to a home party at my neighbors, hubby would put my daughter to sleep. Keep in mind that I do not go out all the time, I honestly feel that I had children and its my job to care for them, we would never leave them wth a sitter to go out. That just isnt us. ANyway, I was only ging for about 30-45 minutes, Iit was right next door and I needed some 'me' time. I was going to let him go with me, my nieghbor called to arn me that her son wouldnt be home. That was it- he freaked out, so he went t call my mom (his new calmdown thing and boy am I dreaeding THAT phone bill) anyway awhile later he came by my neighbors looking for me. so we came home and he freaked again because he didnt do the routine with the baby- by this time she was sound asleep- he started to BANG on the bedroom door- like some physcho killer it was very loud. Then the worst meltdown I have ever seen. I think my husband doesnt handle it properly which makes it worse, seeing his reaction (and he does TRY, but (no offense guys) moms are generally more... sensitive, we will call it the maternal instinct) anyway he makes it worse (in my opinion). I can not handle this anymore, I am so willing to try meds right now. So sometimes the way hubby handles it stresses me out even more. I really want to leave them both at this point. I know... I am a terrible person so you don't have to yell at me

Oh that sounds tough beyond belief. I know I could not be around a child who was losing it totally on a regular basis. Still I can not help but wonder, what might have been stressing him out just prior to him coming apart over the fact that his friend would not be home. I just don't know what to tell you other than that I can imagine how awful it must feel to see one's child in that state.

Me :D

I don't know you personally but I know absolutely that you will hang in there with him. You have to vent, you have to have time to yourself. You don't stop being human just because you're a mother. He's probably going through some stressful events these days, and what you thought was the worst probably isn't yet--maybe it will get even worse.

Just take heart, and remember that twenty years from now he's going to look back and remember your love and compassion (especially if you remind him!--as I did my daughter!) And he'll tell you over and over how much he appreciates what you did for him, and he'll treat you like a queen, and you'll forget how hard it was.

Try to keep that in mind. You're having a hard time, and I'm sure many of us are praying for you and thinking of you and hoping you'll find a solution. He really needs you, but he doesn't realize what's going on or what effect he's having on you. I feel so sorry for your family, and don't know what I'd do in your place, or if I'd be able to deal with it as well as you have (Ok, I'm sure I wouldn't). It's really clear to me that something is upsetting him in a major way, and you need to find out what it is. He's a sad little person in a big scary world, and he has no one to help him but his mom. He's telling you in the only way he can that he needs help. When he was a baby he couldn't tell you that he was hungry, he could only cry, and you had to learn to distinguish whether he was hungry, or cold, or needed a change, or had an earache, or a tummy ache. Now he's hurting and you just need to keep working to find out what the problem is, because he can't explain it now any more than he could when he was an infant. It's really hard to tell, but I'd want to be sure that nothing is happening at school or in the neighborhood, make sure he isn't being bullied or abused.

I'd call the neurologist back and tell them that you're in a serious crisis situation, an emergency, and if they can't see you right away, they need to tell you what else you can do, right now, today, because the situation may become dangerious.

Maybe you can plan ahead, and if he needs to go through the ritual with his sister, start early in the evening, arranging a structured plan for the last few hours of the day. Start lowering the lights, turning off the tv, so that the stimulation will gradually be removed and he'll start being emotionally prepared for bedtime. The worst problems seem to be around bedtime, so concentrate on that. Let him help plan the routine. For example, ask him how many times per week he thinks is reasonable to call grandma, and when he thinks he should do it, and explain the constraints, the expense, and set a limit. Encourage him to call when the rates are lowest, for example. Maybe if he has more input, and helps to control what's happening, and when it happens, it will work out better.

Wish you the best.

Today was much better- after reading from all of you very supportive people! I started to think, and one post talked about stress from happy events as well. Obviously a wedding or something major is totally intense. SOmetimes (since he is so mature) we tend to think of him as being older than he really is. So going over it in my head... days he has playdates or on weekends when we run errands, he tends to freak. TODAY, I simply picked him up from school, we came straight home, did homework, my husband occupied my daughter (best as he could) for a short while - he and I had some one on one time. I brought her up to put her to bed, we did the routine, he went to call his 'dram' then it was 7:30 he went upstairs and went to bed NO PROBLEM. It was wonderful! If al nights could go this smoothly- I'd have to desert all my new friends here! I am going to pick up a planner dedicated to monitoring WHAT we do and his reactions. Last night for example, after school, he had karate, then as I mentioned I went to my neighbors. So that was a double whammy. When he plays with his friends, he has a blast, but at bedtime he seems to be more irritable. So I am thinking that bedtime is just unload time, so I want to keep a diary of events to see some sort of pattern, then we can determine HOW to work on it.

(By the way we are on a flat rate plan 3 cents per minute regardless- I am actually more concerned about how he kills the batteries on the cordless and my cell (and I telecommute so I need them!) I am fine with it if it calms him down. My mom is actually fine with it too- she is worried sick about him which doesn't help her health. But up until a few months ago I worked 3 days a week and telecommuted the other 2, SHE watched him since he was a child- they are VERY VERY close. She would do ANYTHING for him, he is her baby! Unfortnately she is very ill and can no longer watch them, that situation was the best of both worlds, now I telecommute 4 days and go in the office on Mondays. That is his other bad day- since our schedule (while always consistent) is slightly different than the other days! He gets upset that I shower BEFORE he gets up. I think this Monday I will wake him up 20 minutes early to see if that helps things in the am. My husband is home with them Mondays- he has a hard enough time with the baby because she is so attached to her mommy, so when my son acts out- it makes it so much more stressful, and I am sure that fuels the fire. Nothing against anyone who choses it, but for US daycare is not an option. Unfortunately we need BOTH incomes, and even worse I carry the insurance, PPO health, dental, life and std, ltd- that I pay nothing for. So thats a major deal. I thank God everyday that my employer is allowing me to telecommute. I just cant bear the thought of strangers raising my children. It was ok when my mom watched them because I feel that bond is vital. I never had grandparents, so they need that. ALthough I never thought my mom was the best parent, I can honestly say that she is the best grandparent. Does that sound weird?

The one thing I can say is that I truly believe in schedules and consistency. During summer vacation, he still wakes up at the same time as during the school year- even as a baby, we would schedule activites AROUND his naptime. Obviously I am much calmerr now- apologies for my mini breakdown earlier.

Oh also- we decided NOT to wait until DEcember- so I did contact a regular neurologist and found one that will treat a child, November 8th unless there is a cancellation. ALso we have soe friends that 'know a guy' and they are tryingto pull some strings to get us in sooner.

That's such a relief. Thanks for updating us. Maybe he gets overstimulated and needs a very calm orderly routine. I hope he'll be fine, and maybe it'll get better over time.

Please keep us posted.

Hey Girl,
I'm right there with you on the stress levels. My five year old also has meltdowns on a regular basis. After his next one, when he's calm see if he remembers doing the hitting kicking ect. My son does not most of the time. If he cannot remember the incedent, then, he probably cannot control his behavior. I did get the good news today that the EEG that we did with him showed no irriegular brain activity.

My psychologist keeps telling me I have to get rid of some stressors, but when you have a child that has meltdowns, you just naturally have a lot of stress. CJ has been "the perfect child and model student" at school. He's earned to hyperfocus, and pulls away from social activity that might risk his control (almost everything), and seeks high sensory stim on the playground to keep it together. However, the moment he gets on the bus, all he!! breaks loose. Today he lost it at the specialist office and then at his regular doctors office. I've had days like the one you had yesterday, and CJ can be the most loving of my 4 children.
You need to give yourself permission to take time for yourself...even if he has a meltdown. As you are finding out, a stressed mom and holding it together while he's screeming and tearing things up are rarely found together. Being a stay at home mom is stressful, and doubly so when you're child has issues. When mom gets stressed the ripple effect follows at my house. Take the time you need. In the long run it will benefit all of you. Remember to take time with your husband and maybe even help him deal, by creating a game plan for the meltdowns. Most kids respond well to deep pressure hugs-- It helps them regain control and calm down. Remember NOT to get into verbal battles with him.. This only escalates the prob. You need to tell him the behavior to stop AND give him the correct behavior to follow.

Your husband is probably just as stressed but deals with it differently than you do. Despite My sons stellar behavior at school (or maybe because of it) we are still anticipating the call that says he's hurt antother student or torn up the classroom. My husband interalizes his stress, while I cry, write to you guys, talk it out, and generally just let loose. I think it's worse because it's his oldest son. Although he loves our daughters, there is still that male pride in sons (sighs).

Hang in there and start your diary. If you don't have "The Out of Sync Child" by Carol Kranowitz, you should grab a copy. There's a great form for keeping track of behaviors as well as some good general info all parents need about sensory diets for kids.

jan

Will do on all counts- boy do I have a lot of reading to do. Thought I was safe until he hit puberty, boy was I wrong! I think that we will start something different about an hour before bed, naturally I have to convince him of this first. Thank you guys for your support, it really helps me stay on track.

things are just getting worse! YEsterday he woke up at 3 am, mad that his dad didnt remind him to call his gram, when hubby pointed out that he would remind him when it was time to wake up, he went ballistic. 3 am!!!!!! FINALLY I was like- honey come get in bed and snuggle with mommy- and he did. I did start my journal, have alot to record from yesterday and this morning when he started to wail on me because his bedroomdoor was shut. Monday is the only day I go into the office- I telecommute the other 4 days and he has serious issues with it, no matter how I try to prepare him. seems like the nights we get him to bed without the meltdown, he wakes up and has one. I think I will jump start and start calling for a psychiatrist (in case they have a wait list too!) too soon to do that? If this goes on much longer I may need one for myself!

Sounds like you know what causes the trouble--not going through the ritual with the baby, not calling the grandma, etc. Maybe if you'd make a list of things he wants to do, and run down that list every evening, it would give him a chance to deal with everything, and maybe that process itself would reassure him. Continue with the journal so you know what the issues are and incorporate those into the list. You're not going to be able to skip things, because if you do it will upset him and cause even more stress for everyone. But if you remember to do everything he needs maybe he'll calm down, at least until you can see a specialist. Maybe you can encourage him to drop one thing from the list every month or so, as he grows up and matures, and praise him and encourage him for getting to be so mature and independent. And if he wants to add something to his ritual, ask him if he's ready to drop something, but let him be in control. This seems to be his time of need.

It seems like you just have to go along with his rituals in order to have some peace and order, but maybe you can wean him off them.

Could you incorporate some special little treat for him on Mondays? So he has something to look forward to on that day? Special time with you, or maybe his dad could do something with him after school, something quiet but something he would consider a special treat and would compensate for the change, not having Mom around that day.

You said he's taking karate. It has great rituals and teaches self control. Maybe he and his dad could go to lessons together. When my daughter was doing it I saw several father-son pairs doing it together.
Maybe he can do that more frequently.

Please keep posting. Don't you have an appointment in early November? It's not that long now!

I think those are normal thoughts with a child with any type of illness.

Yes my appt is November 8th. Yesterday was our last karate class, we are taking a month off to see if that eases his stress. If there is no change and he wants to continue- that is fine, BUT if I see that he improves, we may just keep it as a summer activity. He is also in Scouts. I woke up awhile ago and he is in my bed, snoring away. I am almost dreaidng waking up. He has a sleepover coming up and I asked him WHAT BOUT YOUR BEDTIME RITUAL? ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO DO THAT WITH YOUR FRIENDS? He said he would skip it, so I am HOPING at that time we can break the cycle. my sister is skeptical she thinks it is bad behavior. She sent me the folllowing article... any thoughts on this?


Mom, My Throat Hurts
A Link Found Between Strep Infection and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder in Children

Children tend to manifest illnesses in particular ways. Some always get ear infections, others develop croup, and still others tend to get strep throat repeatedly. Scientists have found that some obsessive-compulsive disorders (OCD) and tic disorders may be set off by the same infectious bacteria that cause strep throat.

While it is rare for children to develop OCD from strep, one in 1,000 children may develop OCD-related problems following a strep infection. The good news is that the infection itself can be treated successfully with antibiotics. Time, however, is an important factor in treatment. In children who do not exhibit a sore throat or fever with a strep infection, a sudden onset of OCD symptoms and /or tics should alert parents and doctors to the possibility of a hidden strep infection and the need for antibiotics.

Many pediatricians are still unfamiliar with the connection between strep and sudden-onset OCD. This association, discovered over a decade ago, is called PANDAS, Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptococcal Infection. Susan Swedo, MD, a member of the ADAA Scientific Advisory Board, helped discover the syndrome and heads the National Institute of Mental Health PANDAS research team. According to Dr. Swedo, about 1 in 10 young children with OCD fits the PANDAS criteria. These criteria are characterized by sudden, dramatic symptom onset and relapsing-remitting episodes, in which the child may be completely symptom-free one day, and unable to attend school the next day because of washing and repeating compulsions. Rapid diagnosis is helpful, because some children will improve after antibiotics treatment of the strep throat. Others are helped by the standard treatments for OCD, which generally involve serotonin-reuptake blocking medications and cognitive behavior therapy.

The relationship between strep infection and OCD is not the only one that connects mental disorders with physical causes. Advanced syphilis and lyme disease have both been linked to psychiatric syndromes, while strep is also thought to be possibly related to anorexia."

A thorough physical checkup couldn't hurt, and I was wondering if there might be some form of illness that hasn't been diagnosed. Have you noticed any physical complaints around the time this became so severe? It would be hard to remember something that happened months ago, but could well be related.

I'm interested in seeing how he does at the sleepover. Has he been to sleepovers before, and how did they work out? Things change, of course, but it would be a good sign if he had enough self-control to do without the rituals for that night.

If he's add or ocd it isn't bad behavior. He doesn't know what he's doing, and can't help himself. I saw a thread, and especially a couple of posts, last night and thought of you. Read this thread, and realize that you're not alone.

Read this thread, and especially Hyperion's post--it will help you see things from your son's perspective, and realize that he's not just misbehaving--he's doing his best to deal with his world.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22182

If you look through the parenting forum, you'll find lots of tips and ideas for dealing with this. It's hard to see through the emotional stress you're dealing with, both your own and your husband's, but maybe these other people's experience witll help.

Best of luck, and do keep posting--wish I could be there to lift some of the burden off your back, I know it's hard, but am here wishing you the best and I do really care.

Nothing physical that I can recall, aside from the normal colds and things- he DOES have seasonal allergies which are just the worst from the end of July until about the end of Sept- but its unseasonably warm, so this year they are ligering a bit longer. He is scheduled for his 7 year old physical in a few weeks.

No he has NEVER been to or had a sleepover before, this will be his 1st.

Here is something.. I KNOW the bedtime ritual and we pretty much have that down, but now that we do, he finds other things to obsess over. IS this common? Its like a tapeworm effect does the ocd NEED to continue to feed, so if things are right on one type, that there needs to be some kind of chaos?

I am EXHAUSTED!

I did spend 1 1/2 hours trying to set up a psychiatrist appt- one had a 10 week wait list, many do not see children, others not accepting new patients (well I guess we know what field needs more doctors!) Then I found one that had openings on the 31st! I couldnt have him miss trick or treat- that would really set him off, so I made the appt for the end of November, about 2 weeks after the neurologist- that buys me some time for him to do any testing necessary prior to that appointment. I assumed there would be a wait list and wanted to be prepared. WOw, cannot believe how expensive the appointments are, even WITH insurance.

I'm going to go check out that thread- thanks

I think I would have tried to get him to the dr on the 31st, and do the trick or treating a bit later. But I'm not the one having to balance everything! Kids really love the trick or treating and look forward to it.

One thing you might try to avoid is talking about this in front of him, or where he can overhear it. I think that might cause him to internalize it and it could become part of his own internal identity, who he is, and it could cause it to intensify. I always felt that that's what happened when we discussed my daughter's diet in front of her. After all, you don't talk about his being blond or brunet, or his eye color. Kids pick up on what you talk about, and it becomes something that makes them who they are, it's something important because mom and dad talk about it so much, so my impression is that they have to hang on to that, since it's so important to the family, even if they know it's causing difficulty. I'd make it no more a point of discussion than the fact that you have to get him fed--go through his routine but make it just a part of the routine for getting ready for bed, like brushing his teeth. Talk about other things with him so the rituals aren't more prominent in his mind than anything else is.

That's just my thoughts from the way we dealt with the daughter's picky eating--not well! We talked and argued about it all the time in front of her, and now at 20 she's still eating the same three or four things as she was when she was four. This is really difficult when your husband doesn't go along with it, though.

Good luck.

wow, didnt think of it that way- we thought he should know to be aware of it, so we did discuss that with him,. explained he did nothing wrong etc. But I dont think we discuss it much around him anymore. Besides whenever we do try to talk- he ALWAYS has to interrupt!

I would like to go the 31st but he has plans with his friends and I was afraid that he woudl associate this whole thing and missing out on the holiday. Believe me I struggled with that decision. However I also factored in the part about waiting until AFTER the neurologist to keep things in the right order. I want to rule out anything physical prior to the psychiatrist

It's just an impression, having seen my daughter's reaction. The problem with her diet started when she was around three, and we talked about it a lot in front of her and argued about it, whose fault it was, how to deal with it, etc. Back then I didn't think she understood much of what we were saying. But then several years later I noticed she would say some of the same things we had been saying about her. And when you made the comment about the tapeworm effect, it reminded me. Sometimes I've suspected that she didn't want to change her diet because it made her special, or it was part of her identity--hard to phrase it exactly the right way without making her sound weird--as if at some point she became a person who eats only those three or four things, and if she were no longer that person, who would she be?

She was an only child, and we arranged our lives around her, so in a way it was natural for her to hear us talking about this problem so much, since it was really annoying. But I wish we'd talked more about other facets of her personality or her life, so that the food issue was further down the list. I think it would have been less important to her, and maybe easier for her to change.

Now I just refuse to discuss it, with her or anyone else. She's healthy, and now it's her problem, so there's no point in my trying to change it or even discussing it. I've just wondered about what role our talking about it so much played in the way it evolved in her mind. And of course, when you have a problem, you have to talk about it--in your case it's disrupting your lives, causing major stress. And if you tried to be secretive about it, it would just make him curious to know what you're saying behind closed doors, or why you get a particular look on your face and suddenly stop talking, or change the subject, etc. I remember being really curious when I was younger about what people thought of me, especially my parents, and the more circumspect they tried to be, the more it would excite my curiosity. I became an expert at evesdropping! And after someone would say something about me, I would spend lots of time thinking about it, what it meant, why they said that particular thing, etc.

Beware of the blind leading the blind! I can only say what I think and am not learned in this area, and offer sympathy, and hope that it doesn't upset you, because you have a lot to deal with. I don't want to criticize you, just tell you that thought that popped into my head. Maybe it's something that it might be helpful to consider, and it might be a total waste of energy to consider it.

Let us know how the sleepover goes. I'm hoping he will have a wonderful time and grow and learn that he can be more independent and doesn't need the rituals so much. And maybe it will give him so much to think about that he'll be distracted from the rituals.

I am not upset, I LOVE coming here- I can vent, and get support from all of you, from he parents to adults suffereing from ocd. It has helped so much hearing what its like from them. A child can not really explain it very well, so all of the advice and opinions have trly helped me! The sleepover is in 2 weeks, I am sure THAT will go fine, I am just concerned about the next day- will he make up for the night before? Its quite an action packedd weekend becausethe next day is his birthday party, which of course is Sunday. Then the dreaded Monday- but I am HOPING since it is Halloween (and I am leaving work early) that things may go smoother. Additionally that is a 4 day weeekend for him, so maybe that will make things more relaxed... time will tell. I will keep you posted

GUESS WHAT!!! (at the risk of jinxing it) things have been better. Lke Friday- I was a wreck, my husband HAD to attend the HOA meeting (he is President so there is no way he could not go) and that interrupted the bedtme routine. I was terrified to deal with a meltdown on my own! But we talked to my son, he altered his routine - said goodnight to dad with the routine, I had to do it to it differently- in a different area, but HE ALTERED the routine, we promised him he could go to bed with me. His allergies were REALLY bad and he was mopey so he didnt want to call gram, so he layed in the bed and watched Spongebob until 7:30, went to sleep NO PROBLEM, you can not imagine my relief! The next am, he didn't want to call gram again. She is supposed to come over today- he woke up and again didnt want to call. I did ask, so I wouldnt upset him. It has been a pleasant last few days! here have even been a few things aside from Friday that intterupted his schedule, he had a party Wednesday night, a bonfre yesterday withhis scout troup- it was HIS idea to come home early so he wouldnt ge to bed late (even though he would have been able to stay up a little later.) I am almost afraid to breathe right now! Cross your fingers! Hope he isnt saving it up!

Great! When my allergies are really bad, life literally isn't worth living. That alone could be making him miserable. Poor kid has a lot to deal with.

I know. But I am being optimistic here! WHy do we always inherit the bad things??

Ok- so yesterday his gram came to visit, hubby and I re-organized his room while he visited with his gram. So then he asked if I could help him with his bath, so I did. Then I went in his room, and we played a computer game, just the 2 of us, my daughter was behaving for dad, so we seized the moment! Then he asked if he could sleep with me, I made a deal with him and agreed if he would be good boy and not get upset because mom had to go to work Monday and not give me a hard time and dictate my shower time etc. He agreed to TRY. WEll I got a rotten night sleep because he is a maniac while he sleeps, but NO PROBLEMS this morning. EVen for his dad! No arguments, he asked me to wake him up early which I did. He was such a sweetie. I really think he needs to be in his own bed, but if it saves us all from a meltdown... maybe I amon to something. COULD IT BE THAT HE IS SO JEALOUS OF THE BABY THAT WOULD TRIGGER THE OCD?

Yes, I think that even though he loves the baby he's old enough to remember the special times when he had you all to himself, and he's probably grieving for those times.

I know that letting him sleep with you is making things easier for you now, (been there) but in the long run it's going to make things harder for him when you get fed up with it and want him to move back into his room. This is a substitution of one undesirable thing for another, and maybe this will cause even more trouble. The good thing is that he's trying to deal with this and he's making an effort, so encourage that. Help him do it slowly and gradually and be patient with him. But reward him for his efforts by spending more special one-on-one time with him when he doesn't have to share your attention with the baby, and without rushing him.

Good luck, and hang in there!

good point... it did take me forever to get him in his own bed. LIke I said I cleaned his room (it looked like a hurricane went throught it and it was out of control) anyway- we added a new cocmputer desk, put one of our pc's in there. For his birthday, we got him a tv, dvd combo (figuring that last 30 minutes before bed he could watch his show instead of call gram) Then, I found a star wars comforter, sheets and curtains. So when that comes (hopefully while he is at school) I want to wash it and make his bed with it as a surprise.

With him, he does things when he is ready- like with potty training- tried pull ups but 1 accident and teh stars appeared- that was it- no more. I bought all of the cutsie undies... nope didnt do it- THEN a friend recommended the plain white potty training pants, so I bought them. He was thrilled (at white undies, if you can believe that), put them on and at that point- diapers no more, he didnt even have accidents! I tried to work with him on reading- he wanted nothing to do with it- the little stinker could read and i didnt even know it! Because one day when he was 3 we were at the zoo with my brother in law and his wife, as we were talking he wread one of the bios on kangaroos, interrupted us and told us all about it. We were like HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT??? He said I read it so at that point he read it, comprended it and was able to explain it to us! He is just like that you push him to do things and he will not do it- even though he CAN. Then one day he just does it. So I am thinking the same will happen with his own bed. I do not volunteer it- but if he asks, it hard to say no, since my daughter sleeps in the bed too. (still nursing)

I am just so tired and have no fight left in me, those meltdowns are so draining physically and emotionally.

I keep hoping you've gotten through the worst of it.

Me too!

My head is getting a little swollen here! Last night the meltdown process started- my husband didnt do something 'right' and I heard it in his voice - he started screaming and calling him an idiot- luckily the baby was asleep so I went in his room, and talked in 'mommy voice' and was like- come on let mommy help you in your jammies. Okay mommy I love you mommy. Ok lets go to sleep in mommys room. Ok mommy- daddy did I say goodnight? yes. did I say goodnight to mommy? Yes. did I say goodnight to the baby? yes. ok. he went in my room and fell asleep. No fight, no meltdown. I was able to ward it off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I may be on to something here. He has started sleeping with a teddy bear.... when I found I was pregnant, I bought 2 'mommy and me' bears, on the tummy is a pocket for a picture, in his there is a picture of the two of us at the lake. He says its like holding mommy. AS if I didnt feel guilty enough, my baby feels neglected, he needs me... ME! I have been TRYING to have hubby distract the baby (no easy task, she is still preferring me) and I will go in his room with him, shut the door (to keep her out) and we will play a board game or something. I think its really helping, yes maybe its a step backwards, but we are ALL alot less stressed out!

Sounds like you're getting it under control. Maybe in a couple of weeks he'll be ready to move on emotionally. Things like this keep life interesting--at least a few years from now you can look back at it and laugh.

I certainly hope so! I wouldnt have been able to do it without everyones support and advice. Thank you all so very much!

Interesting the response we get to the idea of children sleeping with their parents here (USA for me). In MANY other cultures this is not uncommon at all. I have a well-adjusted Cambodian friend who slept with her mom until she was about 15 years old. That boundary should be personal and not based on what perception you think others would say you "should" or "shouldn't" do. I like the way that you set up the boundaries around him sleeping in your bed the first night. Many times when young children are facing mental and emotional issues the first diagnosis they receive is ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). This is not so much the case b/c they arll really do have OD disorder, but b/c young children are difficult to diagnose; and with something going on in their life and mind that feels so out-of-control for them ODD type behaviors are not uncommon alongside other issues.

Giving choices and options within firm boundaries can be very effective with children in this position--and frankly it is beneficial to most children.

I know my husband says he is too old and needs to be in his own bed. I agree he should be in his own bed, but if he isnt ready, he isnt ready. Honestly if it helps with the meltdowns, well its a very small price to pay for the peace and quiet. The full length body pillow in between helps him from kicking us as much!!

Are things still going well? No more meltdowns?

Pretty good, he did have one saturday night- he had this scout thing ALL DAY LONG, (also had a meeting Friday night so he was up later than usual) and he was exhausted! Personally I thought he looked beat and should go to bed early- but he didnt want to- then, he wanted me to let him stay up past his bedtme to watch tv and and said no- and that was it- my husband took him to the family room, and was going to let him sleep on the sofa and wacth tv before going to bed, but that ruined it and he freaked. (For some reason sleeping on the sofa is a treat ???) So I was the bad guy, of course. it wasnt as bad as the ones in the past, and I also took into consideration that he was up late, up on time and spent the whole day hiking and being very active. I am just trying to find the time to read these books! there are not enough hours in the day! He will be out for fall break, but I may be watching his friend so they will spend the whole day playing! distractions can be a good thing for him.

Am glad things are going better. And he's happy! Kids should be happy as much of the time as possible.

all I want is for him to be happy, healthy and well adjusted.

Tonight is the bignight- we are half way through the sleepover- we had 1 incident- he and his friends are TOTALLY into Greenday and blast the stereo singing along. (didnt expect that for at least 6-7 more years) ANyway my husband used to play guitar in bands many years ago- he learned the 3 songs so he could play along (aa bonding thing for them to do) so he grabbed his axe and started to play along- my son freaked and ran in the basement. He almost lost it but you could see he fought really hard to keep it together. (One of his friends who is about 1 1/2 years younger, normally throws a tantrum when he has to leave and my son is like- oh what a cry baby, so I know it would kill him to cry in front of his friends) Anyway I heard him calling out for daddy to stop it he didnt hear him and continued to play- so naturally he gets his feelings hurt- he is like- man you would think he'd be like oh my dad is so cool he jams along with us. So I was able to pull my son aside and explained that daddy couldnt hear him telling him to stop because the guitar is really loud. He started to tear up so I dropped it. I just received a notice that out hiatus from karate is about to expire, so now what do we do? He has been more relaxed without it - but he is bored because they arent really learning anything new and once he learns something he gets bored and flops around. He wants to do it but his reason is so no other child outranks him. I dont know how to ask him if he REALLY does want to continue or if that is the only reason. Advice, anyone?

ok- another update- we decided bedtime would be 8:30, which is an hour later than normal. first he had issues withwhere they would sleep- his friend didnt want to sleep on the floor, he wanted to sleep on the loveseat and have my son sleep on the sofa- so that was 1 thing, then his friend (who really likes to exaggerate things) was saying he would stay up later and daydream... long story short- he ended up coming in my room crying saying they werent friends, could he sleep with me? the sleepover was no longer going smoothly. I tried to reason with him (yeah right) you are being rude to your friend, blah blah blah. It wasnt like I could have his mom pick him up- she was hosting a huge bash (which we couldnt attend b/c we were afraid to leave him with my mother in law due to the rituals) ANyway- he stayed with me all night- his friend (who had some coffee mocha thing was wired) so he ended up staying awake until at least 1 am, hubby couldnt last any longer. Then when my son woke up this am, he wanted to wake his friend up. Due to the time change, it was really early!

If he wants to go back to karate, I'd take hm. First of all, it's really good for kids, for so many reasons. Second, he wants to go. As long as he wants to do something like that, encourage and support it. When he says he doesn't want any of the kids to get ahead of him, that sounds like the whole sports/ competition thing. Do they have meets that he could be preparing for? Adding that to the mix would reduce the boredom factor and give him an outlet for his competitive instinct. He's so young that maybe he can't express it otherwise, but I'd encourage him. Think of it as something that he wants to excel at, he wants to be the best. That's really a good thing. Just figure out how to deal with the boredom. Maybe the master could help, if you tell him. He could give him some extra tips, help him perfect his moves. If you could take lessons too, that would give him the extra time with you that he craves, you'd get some valuable exercise, he could coach you which would be good for his own skills, etc. I still remember the two or three parent/kid pairs who took lessons when my daughter did, and it looked like a very good thing.

I was afraid the sleepover would be a disaster, but it actually didn't go all that badly. Sounds pretty typical. Congratulations.

I do have mixed emotions about it. His sensei is aware of the situation, actually he isnt very 'hand on ' anymore. Now we have different random instructors, which I dont really care fofr. His original instructor left. We will have a family meeting about it again, we have almost 2 weeks so... Me in karate? I am so out of shape its unreal! I know it would be great to do to get back into shape but I need prereq's first!

okay was his birthday party- first he was upset when his overnight guest left, but we also had o get ready to go to the party. Poor little guy, about 1/2 way thorugh he looked odd, then said he had a sore throat and almost started to cry. He begged me to take him home, he didnt even want to do the cake or presents... the problem was that mpst of teh parents dropped their kid off and wouldnt be back till 3! he managed to get through the cake, and presents, (pretty bad for a kd to want to skip that) anyway got him home, he wanted to rest in his bed- he zonked! He has been asleep since about 4! Now I am afraid he will wake and freak about missing the bedtime routine. I can not believe he will be 7 in 2 more days! I do hope he sleeps all night so he can go trick or treating, that would upset him to miss out on that!

I am really starting to lose it- we had overcome the nighttime ritual, everyone was in compliance, bedtime was smooth. Now we have a morning meltdown. It started yesterday for me, yesterday he refused to brush his teeth, then it snowballed. I had packed his lunch box and told him I'd put it in his backpack since that was empty and he had to carry a treat forf his borthday to school. He said fine until we were leaving then he freaked out over it. He started to wail on me, scream, etc.

This morning- he was fine, I reminded him to brush his teeth, he refused, rather than arue about it I was like fine do whatyou want the dentist can deal with you on that next week. He had been watching his show, and my daughter turned off the tv (because that is what 1 year olds do!) HE got mad, when he used the remote to turn it on, he turned off the dish by mistake and got mad, he shoved her, she fell down and hit her head against the wall. I was like thats it no more tv- now go brush your teeth and go potty, do what you have to do and lets go. He went upstairs, several minutes later he came down and grabbed my arm, he tried to bash my arm in his head, I aksed dhim what are you doing... he said making you punch me. ????????????? I said I am not going to punch you. THEN he demanded that I apologize for punching him, I refused because I did not punch, hit him or anything. I said Iwill not apologize becuase I didnt hit you. Then as we are walking out- he starts to pound on the storm door. I get him in the car- he DEMANDS my cell phone, then calls my mom and tells her MOMMY PUNCHED ME IN THE HEAD. I LOST IT! So I started to tell him you are going to the hosiptal unless you tell thr truth- you do not lie about me or anyone, do you understand? Then he said ok gram, I wanted mom to apologize so I took her arm and was punching myself in the head with it. i DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO/SAY/THINK? aT LEAST THE MELTDOWNS AT NIGHT MY HUSBAND IS HERE TO SUPPORT ME... and the baby is asleep so she cant witness it. I can not handle this on my own. Our neurologist appt is next week. I just really needed to vent- the past 2 days I dropped him off at school and spend teh greater part of the day crying. I dread picking him up after school. I feel lke the worst person in the world for feeling that way... I feel like I need meds just to deal with him! I just don't know. I really needed to vent here, I dont know who else to talk to, most times I really dont feel like I get enough support from my husband and I have no idea where to go or what to do. Great my phone rang it was a work related call and I just burst into sobs, I telecommute Tues-Fri, I can not be productive in ths condition. ARe these feelings common from dealing with an OCD child? Or I am I just a bad parent? Please do not sugar coat it. Would he be better off without me? my mom doenst think I am being patient enough so rather than support from her, I get the you are picking on my baby. My in law thinks ocd is a bunch of crap and that he is just spoiled. no one understands.

You have your hands full. Just hang in for a few more days. I remember that when I was a little older than him I went next door and told the neighbor that my father had stomped on me. The neighbor was an older man, no kids, and he babied me, so he went running over and demanded to know what was going on. And so on ...

You just have to expect things like this. When I look back I wonder why my mother didn't just kill me before I got to be eight. And then it got worse when I was in my teens.

I think you need some mother's little helpers! Was thinking that when I read the first few lines of your post! I'd suggest that you not take everything so seriously (really I was laughing when I read about what he'd done), but realize you can't. And you don't want him hurting the baby. But you need something that will help you deal with it.

He's really not too bad--it's better than it was. You're doing a good job of dealing with the bed time things. Now just stand back and figure out how to make the mornings go calmly. Or at least a little bit better!

Good luck

So now I am going to try the mommy me time, it sort of got away from us with the chaos of the last week, so I am thinking lets try it, so when hubby gets home my son and I will sneak out and go to the store, he has gift cards for his birthday and things to exchange, when I asked if he wanted to go he was like YES YES YES! Then maybe (depending on how long he takes) we can stop for an ice cream or something- just the two of us. I'll let you know how that goes.

Maybe this will help the mornings! Even if we just have 1/2 hour without the baby where its just the two of us. Like last night he INSISTED that I put her on the edge of the bed and sleep in the middle. He was relentless, finally I was like look I will try it but you need to calm down. (she slept in my arms and wasnt in any danger, and once he was asleep I put her in the middle) but he insisted I hold him too, the way I had to hold him, my neck was killing me! Guess I spoiled him too much...

Here is an unrelated question... is there such thing as a crying hangover???

I don't know exactly what you mean by the crying hangover--are you still upset? You surely need some time alone to decompress--maybe you could go to a bookstore and just sit and read for an hour, or get a massage. I never thought I'd like a massage, but a chair massage can be amazingly relaxing, and it doesn't take long, and they offer them in some bookstores, etc.

When my mother was still alive, I'd discuss everything with her, and her comments really affected me. But now she's gone, and I have to come to my own conclusions, and it's really easier. I don't get the negative feedback, the criticism, the second-guessing. It's unfortunate, because we like to share with our mothers, but they're not around to see exactly what the problem is. So try just sharing the good stuff, and don't mention the problems. They're hearing so much about the problems that it probably upsets them out of proportion, and then their feedback upsets you. Also the relationship with the older ones will be better if you're not feeling that negativity coming from them. And you have to deal with it yourself, anyway, so have confidence in yourself. I think the rule anyone should follow is if you can't say something good, don't say anything at all. Or even, if you can't praise them, don't say anything. I hope I remember that in a few years when my daughter calls me for advice!

And they probably get upset about these things and can't do anything to help you--must be extremely frustrating to love you both and worry about you.

It looks like he's telling you as clearly as can be that he needs and demands the special time with you. He just can't verbalize it in an adult way. At seven they're still in many ways so needy, just babies. So young, so innocent, so dependent. Don't compare him to any other kids, even to yourself when you were his age. Everyone is different. Just trust in the absolute fact that everyone grows up eventually, in their own way and at their own speed. He may be taking extra time about something now, but later on maybe he'll zip through some other phase without any problem. Just trust him. Right now he's needing his mom. I suspect that before the baby came along you had a really close, special relationship, and he wants it to be the same again. Maybe it just can't be the same, but you need to help him to adjust.

Yes he has always been a mommys boy. Before the situation with my moms illness, I worked 3 days a week at the office, I was home with him 2, hubby home 1 and gram watched him the other 2 days. She spent the WHOLE day playing with him, so he was very spoiled. Part of the problem with the one on one time... by th etime hubby gets home from work, his homework is done and he is busy playing with his friends, I am not complaining, I know he needs that too. How do I make him understand that if he spends gis fee time with his friends, there is no mommy and me time? Or do I cut his play time off and risk the argument?

By the way I am finally calm now. it just seems like the morening after I cry myself to sleeep I have a headache and heart palpitations and just do not feel well at all.

so things have mellowed out- not saying they have beenperfect but I'd day under control for the most part. We were on a 1 month break from karate. That expired last week, turns out we got charged and they wouldnt reverse the charge.. whatever.. SO the owner called and said he couldnt allow us an additional extension we need to sign a contract by Nov 30th. Long story short- why sign a contract and get locked in another year if it isnt going to work out, so I thought ok- the month was paid for we took a month off to see what happens, why not go back for another month to see what happens. So we allowed him to go to karate- we got home, the meltdown began. we were actually able to stop it. I think we may try 1 more time, and if we get the same thing, well... now we know for absolute sure. I am taking into consideration how far along we have come in the past month. With that in mind.. try the karate thing- he has come so far and really wants to be black belt (he is at red now) itwould be a shame to walk away from that. But obviously I need to do what I feel is best for him.

He has a sleep study 12/22 and the next one 12/30- I really hope it can be that simple. That will be here before you know it- the holidays go so quickly... I DID cancel out appt with the psychitrist next week. Turns out the neurologist is one as well, and we probably will nothave results until some time in January, why medicate him if we dont have to

Ok I have been living through hell! Its been so bad, his meltdowns, the stress it creates. I am normally MISS CHRISTMAS! This year I am so ready to skip the holidays- I am not motivated about them whatsoever and I think its because of the nightmare I am living. I dreaded the thought that I would be home with him 24/7 for over 2 weeks. Dealing with a toddler and him in his moods while teleocmmuting full time....

BUT CHECK THIS OUT- he had a major meltdown last night, we got in a huge fight blah blah blah, so naturally I was depressed today. Today is the 1st day of x-mas vacation. He was an ANGEL, no fights, total cooperation, the sweetest little boy you can imagine. His friend was over, he still paid attention to the baby, I pulled him aside, I told him THIS was the little boy I loved with all my heart, where has he been? I told him how proud I was of his behavior and attitude all day, his reply...

Mom school makes me that way. Why, I asked? He said "because I am too booked when I am in school" If you recall from the earlier posts this same pattern happened at summer vacation. OBVIOUSLY I can not take him out of school, but this reiterates the stress induced theory. WHat I do not understand is how can school be stressful? He enjoys it, the work is easy for him, he gets excellent grades, has many friends, etc. I could understand if he was struggling with learning, naturally THAT would be stressful, but that isnt the case here...

His sleep study is tomorrow night... he has been falling asleep in hiw own bed, but wakes up and gets in bed with us in the middle of the night, SNORING and TOSSING AND TURNING! AACK! His next neurologist appt is mid January. Based on his behavior last night my husband and I finally agreed that medication may be the answer, but now that I have this pattern.... who knows?

I am just guessing at what his day at school might be like...

Does he have sensory issues as well as ocd ? It might be part of the puzzle.

Me :D

Sensory issues?

He is a sweet well adjusted child at school, no problems at all thank goodness. I certainly do not need to be in the deans office! He saves this behavior for his parents! Arent we lucky...

By sensory issues, I mean; Is he hypersernsitive to his clothes, sound, scent ,etc ?

ME :D

Well, SOMETIMES it has been awhile, (clothing) but it wasn't that big of a deal, here were some shirts that bothered him, but that is about it. he IS sensitive to seeing things when he eats. I always thought he just had a weak stomach, certain things would make him 'gag' i.e. bugs, babies (at one point we were at a restaurant a family came in with a baby, he literally took one look and vomited at the table). Or if someone talks with food in their mouth (I am with him on that one!) or even if someone would say a word like bug, or poop, etc. We ouldnt eat certain foods around him because he would gag, like rice or MExican food. Would that count as hypersensitivity? It has dramatially improved, but there are still some 'gagables' as he calls it.

Good news, he does not have sleep apnea, there were some areas of concern with the sleep study (which by the way he had a BLAST and wanted to do it again!!!!!!!!) we have to discuss these issues with the neurologist next month. In a way I was hoping it was that simple, but deep down I think I knew the truth. The bad news, the neurologist will be out of town and had to reschedule us for 2 weeks later (AAACK, I think I REALLY need to get him on meds) So I will cross my fingers and hope for a cancellation!

Wow, it dones not sould like hypersensitivity. It does sound a lot like OCD to me. :p

I just thought I'd raise the question, just in case. :)

It soulds like things are moving forward, so I am happy for you there.

good luck
Me :D

Now we are playing the waiting game-those first few days of vacation were a fluke, he is back to the rituals and adding MORE steps, he does this flopping thing- he throws himself down on his legs multiple times, on the ceramic tile too, it doesn't seem to bother him, but it just looks like it has to hurt

Well he had his appoinment today and has officially (FINALLY) been diagnosed with ocd- given 5 mg of Lexapro- whih we will start tomorrow-

ANYONE know anything about this drug? I plan to research on the web tonight but you guys (and ladies) can certainly give better insight on things....

I hope it works...

how odd is this... he took his 1st dose today- he calls them happy pills. I KNOW there is no possible way they could have started to work... he claims they DO work, and he feels better, he was more easy going, more behaved... more relaxed....

Is this common? COULD they have started to work?

Yes, you can notice an effect right away. He also probably feels a little euphoria or even sedated right now. That effect will gradually go away and the full theraputic effect ought to be known in a few weeks.

Me :D



how odd is this... he took his 1st dose today- he calls them happy pills. I KNOW there is no possible way they could have started to work... he claims they DO work, and he feels better, he was more easy going, more behaved... more relaxed....

Is this common? COULD they have started to work?

wow, thank you. So he can be feeling a buzz? I am not sure I am comfortable with that

The "buzz", if present, will wear off soon. He is probably way happy with being able to focus better and could care less about transient euphoria. That is how I felt about it.

ME :D

wow, thank you. So he can be feeling a buzz? I am not sure I am comfortable with that

Thanks, this is all so new to me and I am paranoid- my husband sayd I watch too many LIFETIME movies! HE seems to be wired at the end of the day- very hyper and active, is this common?

I am not sure what that might indicate. If things are going well, I'd not worry too much about it. You have to remember that medications can help, but are not a cure-all, so it won't be perfect.

ME :D


Thanks, this is all so new to me and I am paranoid- my husband sayd I watch too many LIFETIME movies! HE seems to be wired at the end of the day- very hyper and active, is this common?

I know and I also realize this may not be the correct medication, but I think I need to give it several weeks before making that call, he has another appointment March 6th so that should give us enough time

Its been SEVERAL weeks on the Lexapro, it is NOT working. The other day he had probably one of the biggest meltdowns ever! His pshyciatrist was SUPPOSED to be the 6th but they called to re-schedule 3 weeks later! AACK! So I called the neurologist- his response was to quit the medication OR double the dosage! I was not comfortable with THAT, so we called the pharmacist who said he wouldnt recommend it because the Lexapro doesnt even provide dosage for children. I will continue what I have left, but I dont think I will refill it... any advice on this???

When it comes to meds like Lexapro it may not be a wise decision to just stop the medication without consulting your doctor. I realize that things are difficult right now and my heart goes out to you, but I have stopped antidepressants cold turkey before and it wasn't pretty, to say the least. In my case, when I did come off of the Lexapro, my doctor had me transition into a new med at the same time which seemed to work very well. I hope this helps.

Even though he has only been on it a short time? Also the doctor is the one that suggested we stop and start over... I have continued, but it doesnt seem to be doing ANYTHING.
By transistioning to a new med... how does that work exactly? I just thought if you switch you switch...?

Yes, even in a short period of time the meds have been absorbed into the system and can be difficult to come "down" from without some type of advice or intervention from your doctor. I realize he may have said stop, but given the fact that you are trying to find the right med, stopping without some type of safety net or plan to begin a new therapy is a scary prospect for anyone. I’m hoping there is more he can give you if you ask for more information, etc.

As far as transitioning, I went from one med to the next without interruption and even though the transition had its "bumps" it was far, far better than going cold turkey. I have stopped three different antidepressants abruptly and for me it was hell. The recovery period took a lot out of me physically and mentally and also stole precious time. Understand that I'm an adult and that perhaps as a child he's more resilient but these were my experiences and based on them I HIGHLY suggest talking to your doctor about transitioning and not just dropping meds for now and pick up some other time…which reeeeeeeeally is no fun at all.

Thank you! GUess I will keep him on it until we see the new doctor- thanks again :)

I am going to SCREAMMMMMMM!!! My re-scheduled appt was yesterday- all is well, I am scheduled to leave work early- no problem. Well 12:30 comes around- I get a call- I am being cancelled AGAIN!!!! The doc is sick, that isnt the best part- we are going through health insurance renewal at work, BC wants a 41% increase, my employer has no choice but to reduce the PPO network, this doctor is not in the new network. So now I haveto start all ove and make calls to get on another freaking wait list! Granted this is not a done deal yet but I now have more homework to do. Even the otherpsychiatrist wait list I have been on for MONTHS is not in the network. This stinks! Unless a miracle happens and I an get in before April 1st, I am pretty much up a creek. I just needed to vent- this is so unreal!

Today was our 1st appt with the psychiatrist. It went very well. My son was nervous and some questions the doctor asked he didnt quite understand WHAT he was asking, but I learned some very disturbing things. He has thoughts of punching himself in the face and killing his father and me during his meltdowns. he also said he has had thoughts of killing himself but he said he would never hurt himself. Good news- he thinks that we're making excellent progress. He feels visits every 2-3 months will suffice unless we have setbacks. HE also thinks that perhaps in a year or so that we can stop the lexapro! Great news! Crossing my fingers.

Interestingly enough when a doctor gives a directive, generally my son will follow it- we discussed rituals, he didnt know why he had to do them- the doctor basically said I want you to stop- my son agreed. Now while my ritual was drastically reduced- now I have been able o say goodnight anywhere- my husband didnt even have to watch, all I had to say was "love you too goodnight" - tonight I tested the waters- I said "goodnight, I love you" and he was fine!!!!!!! Granted tonight he was anxious to go to bed for the Easter Bunny visit, so we will see.

I am just so relieved and it was so positive... it was so - I don't know. I honestly didn't know what to expect.

His words and thoughts are hurtful but I think back to my childhood and remember wishing my mom were dead in a heated argument. I never had thoughts of being the one killling her so.... I don't know what to think. I have seen the extreme anger in his eyes during the meltdown, but I never imagined the evil thought of killing me was behind his eyes.

Baby, I know us Brits moan about our National Health Service but reading what you are going through I am so glad I have it here. My son has had counselling from 2 weeks of contacting the first organisation progressing through until we are now at the best specialists you can get, all free.

These thoughts are frightening but it is the illness who is doing the thoughts of harm not your son - that's how I separate them to be able to cope with them. I have been hit, punched, headbutted then when the melt down has passed he is sorry - so very sorry and hates himself for having done it - and has twice gone for knives to kill himself.

I wonder why the specialist hasn't suggested cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) it seems to be the way to go in the UK. Ill know more tomorrow when we go back to our specialists and hopefully the assessments are finally over and we can start with the CBT.

Well done so far in calming you son xx

Thanks CC- they have suggested it- but we were unable to do it on our own. I have more serious issues to deal with now- I will post you in private... check your private messages!

Me

BB how is he now? How are the rituals?

My son has some very disturbing thoughts. For a while he wanted to kill himself he is only nine for goodness sakes! He gets really angry too tells me to shut up and even hit me. Luckily we are coming out of it now - he hasnt started CBT yet.

Ill tell you what the consultant told me - I dont know if it will help but it has worked to a large extent for us. I am no expert - have only come across OCD in January and havent even started CBT but if it helps here's a summary of what the consultant has said.

The fear starts with an idea - an idea that something bad will happen if he doesn't perform the ritual - then it's the action of performing the ritual. She has said it is important that I keep reinforcing the fact "the idea" he has is not real - though it is very much real for him. It is "the idea" behind the ritual that we need to focus on with them to assure them that nothing bad will happen if the ritual is not enacted.

One of his phases was asking me if he could swallow and holding on to his saliva until I said it was safe to swallow incase there were germs in it that would make him sick. At first I was saying "yes of course you can swallow", so he swallowed. but it would happen again and again and again. The consultant has said because Im giving permission to swallow it reinforces the idea - and the fact that he needs to ask.

I changed my answer to "what do you think will happen if you swallow - do you think you will be sick?" then discussing that saliva is just a part of him - and it kind of recycles in his body. It doesn't work once - for us it was a week going over an dover the same ground in different ways - maybe longer. Sometimes he would get really angry with me, screaming that I had to tell him he could swallow and say that he wouldn't be sick. Sometimes when I saw he was really stressed I reverted to saying "yes of course you can swallow" but weaning him off that response. Sometimes I would laugh it off and say if you dont swallow - you are going to create a river in the lounge and we'll have to swim out of here.

For us it is about small steps, loads of praise for tiny improvements, my son is big on praise so it works (bribery works too sometimes). For big things like stopping for dinners I promised him a trip to the snooker hall after school.

The big thing the counsellor gave me was it was important not to indulge or share in the rituals (though you cant just stop overnight) as you reinforce the fear. She said I had to focus on getting him to believe the idea that they believe something bad will happen is not real. Sorry I dont know if any of that makes any sense.

Now he has a fear of currant/raisins so I have built him up from touching pictures of them to touching chocolate bars with currants inside. I now have two on the mantlepiece in the lounge and he can face seeing them daily until he can get to touch them.

Now I have confused myself - I have a currant and raisin to dust underneath. ggg