Although I have not yet been diagnosed, I am sure that I have ADD. I have an appointment with a psychiatrist for next month; my son has already been diagnosed (ADD-I).

I had thought that I must have the inattentive type, because I am not hyper, until I saw Robert McTavish's list of adult manifestations of hyperactive behavior.

DSM-IV Symptom Domain ..... Common Adult Manifestation

Squirms & fidgets ..... Workaholic
Can't stay seated ..... Overscheduled/overwhelmed
Runs/climbs excessively ..... Self-select active job
Can't work/play......Constant activity quitely
Talks excessively.....Talks excessivley

I fit all of these except "Self-select active job" -- I have a desk job and love it, although I am self employed and set my own (fairly odd) hours. I also get up fairly often to pace around and think, although I can sit for hours without moving when I am hyperfocused.

And now that I think of it, maybe I was hyper as a child. For instance, I was a "rocker" -- I would sit in the back of the class where they still had the old desk and chair sets, rather than one-pieces, and rock on the back legs of my chair while I stared out the window. I often got in trouble for this, especially when I would fall over backwards, but I couldn't stop myself.

And I was often getting in trouble for behavior in school. When I was 13, a teacher sent me to the counselor because he thought I was on drugs (at that point I had never even tried them yet)...

My mother also tells me I was something of a hellion as a young child. One time my grandmother walked in and found my mother had duct-taped me to a chair because she couldn't handle me any more (I remember this but don't remember what I was doing)... My mother never abused me or even hit me, so I have to assume I must have been really misbehaving.

I also did lots of impulsive things. Like when I was 5 and jumped off the stairs head-first because I was convinced I could fly (knocked out 4 front teeth), and lots of climbing (rock climbing when I got older), stupid stunts, going down big hills on my skateboard, lots of very active (individual) sports, etc.

Is this kind of stuff normal in a child (as I thought), or does it point to possible hyperactivity?

also did lots of impulsive things. Like when I was 5 and jumped off the stairs head-first because I was convinced I could fly (knocked out 4 front teeth)


I tried to fly when I was 4 and got several stiches on my forehead!!!!

I thought I was the only one who actually tried to fly!!!!!!

ADD could be- I have combined type but I do tend lean towards impulsive/hyper active

I tried to fly when I was 4 and got several stiches on my forehead!!!!

I thought I was the only one who actually tried to fly!!!!!!
A kindred spirit!

Did you ever try jumping off the roof with a sheet as a parachute?

Note to kids -- this doesn't work!

You know what Barkley said...if there is a "wiff" of classic ADHD any where along the line....then combo.

I used to jump off the top of our staircase into a pile of sheets, duvets, and pillows when I was littler. fun stuff, but mom got very angry. Something about "paralyzing ourselves"...I dunno I wasn't listening...I was too busy pretending to be skiing off cliffs. Now I just do it for real.

Uminchu, you sound like me with the school behaviour, the problems, the job (I go to school, but I do much the same thing work habits wise), and the sports you used to partake in (individual, dangerous, fast....fun!). Even the being able to stay quiet and focused for long periods of time if necessary(as a kid, I read constantly at a ridiculously rapid rate, blocked everything else out and just read....freaky huh?)

It's called ADHD combined type. DSM 314.1 if I'm not mistaken.

lol...excellent scuro.


Uminchu....... please credit Russ Barkley on those.

Uminchu....... please credit Russ Barkley on those.
Whoops, sorry. The edit window on my original post is unfortunately off, so I will just state here:

The list in my first post is from Russ Barkely. :)

But be careful, since the "Barkley Combined" can be Inattentive by the DSM-IV. The "Barkley Inattentive" is possibly a different disorder known as SCT. I would ignore the Barkley definitions unless you are familiar with his rationale (or until it gets added to the next DSM revision), because they are liable to cause confusion. (IE, your Dr is probably not going to be using the Barkley definitions and it would be good if you communicated with him on the same page).

Uminchu, you sound like me with the school behaviour, the problems, the job (I go to school, but I do much the same thing work habits wise), and the sports you used to partake in (individual, dangerous, fast....fun!). Even the being able to stay quiet and focused for long periods of time if necessary(as a kid, I read constantly at a ridiculously rapid rate, blocked everything else out and just read....freaky huh?)

It's called ADHD combined type. DSM 314.1 if I'm not mistaken.
Thanks. I am going to have to dig out the books and rethink some things.

I guess my standard for "hyper" has been afftected by what I have seen in my cousin and his father (my uncle), who were diagnosed with ADHD and are ("was" in uncle's case) very hyper. This kid literally couldn't sit down for 5 minutes unless he was on Ritalin. I was never like this, despite rocking in my chair constantly, playing the class clown, having a "need for speed," etc.

Unleash,

I agree with you. I never use SCT in anything diagnostic nor will I include it in a report or letter,etc.

I feel the same way about Amen's "12 types" of ADHD like "Ring of Fire," etc.

However, the qoute has nothing to do with SCT.

Barkley is mainstream all the way.

My dad was BiPolar, my brother was Schizophrenic, I'm inattentive type, my one daughter is classic adhd. You don't always inherit what you're parents have...but I do believe that you inherit a cognitive susceptibility.

But be careful, since the "Barkley Combined" can be Inattentive by the DSM-IV. The "Barkley Inattentive" is possibly a different disorder known as SCT. I would ignore the Barkley definitions unless you are familiar with his rationale (or until it gets added to the next DSM revision), because they are liable to cause confusion. (IE, your Dr is probably not going to be using the Barkley definitions and it would be good if you communicated with him on the same page).

If your Dr. is specializing in ADHD...they would be using these critera. People in the field should know about this.

I would ignore the Barkley definitions unless you are familiar with his rationale (or until it gets added to the next DSM revision), because they are liable to cause confusion. (IE, your Dr is probably not going to be using the Barkley definitions and it would be good if you communicated with him on the same page).
I hear what you're saying. If/when I get the diagnosis, it will probably be inattentive, like my son. That's cool, because the things I need help with fall into the "executive functions" realm. I couldn't care less how much I pace.

But it affects my own outlook, such as actively looking into medications. For example, from what Barkely says, it appears that stimulant meds don't work very well for "his" type of inattentive; but maybe now I will be open to giving them a try.

What I posted was NOT about an unproven theoretical construct.

If you know Barkley or have ever met him, he is the most dedicated,hard core scientist you'll ever meet.

He literally doesnt say anything he can't back up.

He qualifies that when its an unproven construct or when the remarks are anecdotal.

Those remarks were neither.

They came from his power points from the March teleconference on ADHD in Adults.

What I posted was NOT about an unproven theoretical construct.

If you know Barkley or have ever met him, he is the most dedicated,hard core scientist you'll ever meet.
I'm sorry if it appeared that I thought this way.

I very much respect Barkley's work, although to be honest I think he is a little too gloomy about the future outcomes of ADD kids.

To me the label is less important than how I should view my problems and what sort of treatment I should pursue. Although I do plan to be under the care of a psychiatrist/therapist, I know that patients need to be proactive in their own treatment.

Well said. np:)

I wish you luck.

Okay to prevent over exertion of members fingers here are hyper links to the Russell Barkley threads/post already done.......

Misc treatments
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21861&highlight=Barkley

General ADD talk
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21964&highlight=Russell+Barkley


http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21924&highlight=Russell+Barkley

Diagnosis and treatment
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21572&highlight=Russell+Barkley


Newly Diagnosed ADD Adult ADD
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21583&highlight=Russell+Barkley


Put me down as a lover of repatition....and re-statement....actaully I am trying to save some from having to retype information......besides I was enjoying the kid antics......

Did you ever try jumping off the roof with a sheet as a parachute?


No but I did try to jump from the roof to a near by tree branch like I saw a squirl doing.....OUCH :faint: eyes crossing, certain body parts I never knew I had throbing....kid falling over Ugggggg......

There was a reason I was made a small child as if I had been a larger one the branch would have broken and hurt me worse......

My mom beat my buttttt once because she was driving home from work and saw me walking accross a near by highway and caught me getting so close to cars I actually reached out and touched them....do NOT try this bare handed.. well I would recommend NOT trying this at all .....causes bottom pain potientially fatal injuries.....especially in the near sighted......guess good distance judgement and luck.....is a genetic......a requirement for impulsive people survival!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Barkley's work, although to be honest I think he is a little too gloomy about the future outcomes of ADD kids.


Yeah he can seem gloomy on first glance. Thing is, a lot of ADHD people don't get the chance to see their ADHD peers on a daily basis. If they did, they might change their tune.

At school I see ADHD kids everyday and it's like a 20 car pile up on the interstate highway. One kid is so rude, disrespectful, and incapable of self editing her remarks...that I want to suspend her!...and I am her advocate. If you saw this everyday then the outcomes that Barkley talks about would be very easy to swallow.

Take a look at the current titles of threads on this board.
"Can't ever get things to work out".
"Lonely life'.
"31 and still no career".
"Where are the positives".

Watch the crashes on a daily basis and you will accept that this is truly an impairing disorder.

Take a look at the current titles of threads on this board.
"Can't ever get things to work out".
"Lonely life'.
"31 and still no career".
"Where are the positives".

Watch the crashes on a daily basis and you will accept that this is truly an impairing disorder.
Well, people do come here to for support. I mean if everything was peachy most people wouldn't be here, right? That doesn't mean that their lives suck all the time. ;)

Even so, I concede that many ADDers have lots of problems in their lives. But things aren't so bad for me -- that's one counterexample, assuming I do have ADD. And I honestly, and realistically, see great things in store for my son, who definitely does have ADD.

Even so, I concede that many ADDers have lots of problems in their lives. But things aren't so bad for me -- that's one counterexample, assuming I do have ADD. And I honestly, and realistically, see great things in store for my son, who definitely does have ADD.

Hi Uminchu,

Why are you going to see a psychiatrist then?

Everyone goes to the doctor when there is something wrong, not to be "the best you can be", unless you're Lance Armstrong or something. Please, no offense, we don't really know the person behind the post on these forums but I just don't get it.

I thought there needs to be significant impairment in more than one aspect of a person's life for ADD symptoms to be considered a disorder, otherwise it's just a trait, definetely not something to see a psychiatrist about.

Hi Uminchu,

Why are you going to see a psychiatrist then?
Things are going well -- but they could be going better. That's the nutshell, feel free to skip the rest.

If I had never heard of ADD, I would probably have happily gone through life. At least I have considered myself basically happy until and including now.

I think it is possible to be happy despite having problems.

I think it is possible to be successful by various measures used by society, and still need to improve.

I have written about my various failings at length and in detail in other threads, so I think it would be overkill to repeat them here. Suffice it to say, I think I need help in various "life areas."

Just one small case in point, though: It is currently 12:00 midnight my time. I have a job due 11:00am tomorrow morning. I estimate it will take me 10.5 more hours to finish it, give or take. Yet here I am, typing this post. :D

I know that others have more severe ADD than me, if that is what I have, and more severe ADD than my son. This is not a "one size fits all" disorder. Does that mean that I don't need to improve? No.

My son is doing great, and will do great -- with the interventions we have put in place, and with the knowledge we have of his strengths and weaknesses.

I was never as hyperactive as my brother. He did the superman thing and then crawled back up on the roof with the cast on his leg. I always thought he was nuts. But I was a bit of the tree squirl and did plenty of time on top of the roof too, I just never tried jumping off.

Things are going well -- but they could be going better. That's the nutshell, feel free to skip the rest.

If I had never heard of ADD, I would probably have happily gone through life. At least I have considered myself basically happy until and including now.

I think it is possible to be happy despite having problems.

I think it is possible to be successful by various measures used by society, and still need to improve.

fair enough, I understand your point perfectly, I hope you understood mine. I'm not just pushing buttons although I am being pushed all kinds of buttons recently.

My problem is still, (nothing personal with you) to see and read examples of people wanting to start this "self improvement" phase. This is indeed something you know how it starts but don't know how it's going to end, and which involves taking medication, not only that, but putting your brain chemistry through what could be months of trial and error for the right one, right dosage, and dealing with side effects too.

I was diagnosed with ADD 8 years ago in the States, this doesn't seem to mean much here in Spain now, and I am currently putting a lot of thought into asking myself if I am seriously impaired to want to be treated. I think I definetely am but I am scared of the whole medication phase described previously, very much. There is a chance I'll get better but this can't be gratuitious for my body.

I have tried gathering as much literature as possible recently on ADD from both sides of the Atlantic and I can say that all the stuff I have found in Spain is more keen on the "Do we want everybody on amphetamines then?" theme and its consequences. My main problem, for example, with "Delivered to Distraction" so far into the book is that it leads everyone to think they have ADD, then specifies when it is a trait and not a disorder, but then goes on extensively about how medication can help both the trait and the disorder.

The more I read the more questions I have too but the only go to the doctor when something is wrong rule is kind of to live by, at least for me.

fair enough, I understand your point perfectly, I hope you understood mine. I'm not just pushing buttons although I am being pushed all kinds of buttons recently.
I think I understand you. I certainly don't take offence. It is a good question for focusing my thoughts.

The anti-meds sentiment is very strong here in Japan as well. Possibly stronger than in Europe. They are always ragging on Americans for popping a pill for everything (yet they think it's fine to take Chinese medicine till the cows come home -- but I digress).

For one thing, treatment does not necessarily need to be pharmaceutical. Even if it is, it does not have to be a stimulant. Additionally, I alreay self medicate with a stimulant -- namely, caffeine.

One non-medication thing I am seriously considering is hiring an assistant part-time to keep me on task. I will wait until I talk to the psych about other options, like coaching, before making my decision.

My son takes no meds, and I have no current plans to put him on meds, but we have changed his environment in a number of ways. And this "treatment" has been very effective.

I have already changed my own environment in many ways over the years to help me cope with my failings, mostly out of instinct I guess.

But I was a bit of the tree squirl and did plenty of time on top of the roof too, I just never tried jumping off.
Me neither, except with a parachute! :)

You know what Barkley said...if there is a "wiff" of classic ADHD any where along the line....then combo.
This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion with some people, but I'm not at all convinced by Barkley's theories. Too many people just plain don't fit his idea of "Inattentive type," so according to him, they're combo...even if the amount of impulsivity/hyperactivity they've expressed in their lifetime has been minimal. To me, that seems to muddy how impulsivity can be impairing. I mean, sure, I've done impulsive things in my life...but that doesn't make me any different from anyone else, and it CERTAINLY doesn't make me combined type.


In response to the OP: I'd say that I tried to fly, but I actually was trying to do a swan dive...off the coffee table. :D

I understand what Barkley is trying to accomplish, but his redefinition of combo is bound to cause lots of confusion. Maybe he should have invented a new group to house the non-SCT ADHD-I's

SCT is, to the best of my knowledge, still a theoretical construct.

If that is the case, then he isn't going to go beyond the current criteria until he has established those data.

Trying to apply ongoing research/theory to the current accepted standard of practice simply doesn't fit.

In my opinion, Russ Barkley is the #1 most respected researcher among clinicians.

He 's the main one I hear people qoute at workshops/conferences and hes' the one most clinicians gravitate towards in terms of theoretical viewpoint.

Several weeks ago, I had the opportunity to see a presentation on ADHD by a neurodevelopmental pediatrician from the Philadelphia area.

She was very impressive in terms of her knowledge and experience,as well as the people she's trained with.

For example, she paid out of pocket to take Joe Biederman's (another well respected researcher) ADHD course at Harvard.

Without question, she qouted Russ more than any other researcher.

There's a reason for that.

The truth is, most mainstream/top name researchers have much in common theoretically (I'm not talking SCT here).

I'm referring to ADHD as a disorder of self-regulation/inhibition.

That means something to me as a clinician.

I understand what Barkley is trying to accomplish, but his redefinition of combo is bound to cause lots of confusion. Maybe he should have invented a new group to house the non-SCT ADHD-I's
How I find this SCT concept useful -- my "take home message" -- is that of this group he has found, very few react favorably to stimulant medications. So if I thought I fit into that group, I would not pursue that avenue as actively as if I did not think I fit into that group.

SCT is, to the best of my knowledge, still a theoretical construct.

If that is the case, then he isn't going to go beyond the current criteria until he has established those data.

Trying to apply ongoing research/theory to the current accepted standard of practice simply doesn't fit.

That's the problem. Some people on this board were quoting Barkley's ideas on SCT and ADHD-I as though they were the widely accepted norm.. had me thinking I was SCT for awhile, meaning there wasn't much information on my condition and how to treat it. When I read Barkley in context, then I understood what he was saying, and I got a bit angry that people were passing off ADHD theory as accepted fact, and leaving out some important bits.

How I find this SCT concept useful -- my "take home message" -- is that of this group he has found, very few react favorably to stimulant medications. So if I thought I fit into that group, I would not pursue that avenue as actively as if I did not think I fit into that group.
My experience was I got diagnosed ADHD inattentive according to the DSM, I was starting medication with limited initial success. I came on here and started reading posts that were saying that ADHD-I is really a different disorder known as SCT, and SCT doesn't tend to respond well to medication. Because of that, I was near throwing in the towel and giving up hope on treatment.

Then I learned what Barkley actually said-- Normally you need to meet 6 of the hyperactive/impulsive criteria to be labelled combined, but he said you should be combined if you only exhibit maybe 3. I don't have 6, but I do have maybe 4, so I would be a Barkley "combined". After that revelation, my outlook improved, and I gave other medication and doses a try to better success.

So that's why I'm leary of the discussion of these Barkley theories. I just want to see that they are discussed in the proper context so nobody else falls into the same pitfall I did.

So that's why I'm leary of the discussion of these Barkley theories. I just want to see that they are discussed in the proper context so nobody else falls into the same pitfall I did.
I see what you mean. I think I will be diagnosed as inattentive by the DSM, but will keep an open mind about stimulants -- specifically, I will not give up if the first try doesn't yield results.

By the way, this is not to say that I have decided that I want meds at all. Having a clear head would be nice, but it's my behavior that I really want to improve, and if coaching and the like is enough for that, then cool.

Too many people just plain don't fit his idea of "Inattentive type,"


It's not about the people who don't fit the inattentive type category. It's about the true inattentive type being quantativly different from classic adhd/combo. They are so different that they are almost polar opposites and need to be separated for different treatment then classic adhd or combo...or those with a "wiff" of hyperactivity.

And it's not like stimulants don't work for the true inattentive subtype of ADHD. Clinically they work for 1/4 of this group and over 1/2 receive some benefit. You just don't see the eye popping success rate of 92% that classic adhders have with meds.

Although I am not the super educated person of fansy talk but I have always wondered if people who have from ADD inattentive type and those who are hyper-impulsive aren't chemicially different.


In other wards both types of ADD may in deed effect the same neorotrasmitters but in machinaically different ways.

Inattentive-

tunes out in conversation
distracted by internal stumli
under motivated -unable to get task started
day dreamer
tends to be introverted or seen as shy


Impulsive:

takes overconversation
distracted by external stumli
starts too many projects....finshes few
flight of ideas
tends to be talktive out going


I see it as all these are the same but different......

Tammy, in my book you have the best insight into ADD of anyone I have seen. You're awesome!

But now you have me worried because I fit both your lists! :faint:

If you're both, you're combined.

And Tammy, I'm not even sure if Barkley can answer your question. :) They look to be different but why...I think we will find that out in the next decade or so.

If you're both, you're combined.
I am starting to think you are right.

But if you just go by the DSM-IV, I'd be inattentive, because I meet maybe 2 of the hyper-impulsive criteria as written. When I was younger I met more, but I've learned to control myself... or maybe just slowed down with age. :)

They look to be different but why


Man is that the million dollar question.....It seems as if all the ADD types affect the same brain area but the difference seems to come from the way they affect these areas......I mean inattentive folks are being as distracted as us hyper both are unable to maintain focus on boring task or long conversations (or post) but the way the distractions occur seem almost opposite..inattentive is usually discribed as distractions coming from internal stumli and impulsive varieties are usually distracted by external stuff..both create inattention but in almost opposite ways....

I also see in my self the older I get the more I fall into a combined traits...as I child I had almost strickly impulsive hyper ADHD but the further I get into my adult years the more I seem to be gathering inattentive traits not previously experienced in childhood, teen or young adult...so I wonder if the changes in my ADHD are due to my "coping abilities" or me aging brain!!!!!!