View Full Version : Reading


smooch
09-17-03, 02:25 PM
Totally a guess here, but as a former reading teacher....

Reading aloud and then having your comprehension of that material being tested blends the three learning styles of auditory, visual, and tactile/kinesthetic (learn by doing, touching, manipulating learning aids...being physically involved in learning something).

I would say that when it comes to the skill of reading comprehension, tactile is the least effective style for you. Your scores seem to indicate that you're strongest with visual learning, and auditory learning (which involves visual--"seeing" what you're hearing) is pretty high up there, too. Reading aloud in order to comprehend the text involves more physical participation on your part (voice, mouth, tongue, pauses for breathing, all to be coordinated with moving your eyes along the page and hearing your own voice). A lower score would indicate this is not the best way for you to learn material presented in text format.

However, that doesn't mean that you cannot learn using tactile methods. There are other skills where that learning style may come into play for you, i.e., math manipulatives, pointing to maps to learn geographical or historical information, etc....

Just my opin....

LiLMissADDitude
09-17-03, 03:33 PM
Smooch thanks for the response. The thing is I am predominantly a tactile learner. For the full test it was determined that auditory learning was my weakest area. Tactile was my main style with visual following just a point behind, then kinesthetic close behind. I was told I use a mixture of these learning styles. But I was not at all an auditory learner. This seems kinda weird to me since I got 95% on the comprehension for auditory. All the other tests for auditory I also scored pretty high - Above 85%. Then a lot of the test was based on survey questions and questions about my preferences for projects/work.

Is it normal to have such a variation in learning styles? I mean..... I just dont understand how I could score so high on auditory comprehension for listening to someone reading, talking, number call back but then have that be my lowest overall learning style. And then the tactile (which I did the worst for the comprehension in reading) end up as my preffered learning style. When I was doing the test reading outloud I remember it was like I couldnt manage to read the words off the page and absorb the information at the same time.

smooch
09-17-03, 05:03 PM
LOVE the quote in your sig, by the way! :)

Yes, it's completely possible to have conflicting eval results and/or BE conflicted about those results. ;) If I understand correctly, the battery of tests you took demonstrated an overall apparent "weakness" in auditory learning. Perhaps it should have been presented to you as your "less best" learning style, meaning that with all styles you scored higher than "average"... and auditory was just not the highest score of all your high scores....?

Most people use multiple styles to learn, but they also tend to have a dominant style, which in your case is tactile. Most people have to be taught certain subjects using one style, but for other subjects, they need a different style. That's what made teaching so fun--figure out how the child learns best, then design a lesson that will appeal to his/her style, yet also strengthen his/her weaker styles.

There could be several factors at work here: for someone having ADHD, the sound of you reading aloud may have been too distracting, as could the subject of the text (instead of comprehending the message of the text, your thoughts were similar to "This is stupid, boring stuff...." or maybe you were thinking about something totally unrelated, meanwhile you were "word calling"--the term given to people who can pronounce the words correctly/phonetically, but are not able to literally understand what it is they're reading.) Other factors affecting your score could be the fact that you were in a testing situation to begin with and maybe felt some pressure...was it timed? And did you have the same text for each portion (solo read, read to you, read aloud by you)? Were you distracted by the person listening to you, maybe being self-conscious? Were you allowed to go back and re-read when you realized you didn't understand what you were reading? Did you use your finger to follow along as you read?

Also, don't forget ADDers' issues with short term memory--how many times have you met someone, even said their name ("Nice to meet you, ___."), then two sentences later their name is totally off your radar.... :)

Bottom line is, a learning styles test can be sooo subjective. Survey/preference questions need to be worded "just so" to avoid being subjective. You are obviously very intelligent, which means you can recognize learning techniques that "work" for you in different learning situations.

Man...I've got major KBD today.... :D If you've made it this far in my post and have more questions/comments, feel free to ask. I'll try not to blather on and on and on..... :D

LiLMissADDitude
09-17-03, 05:15 PM
Hi again Smooch...... gosh I wasnt gonna say anything but I just have to, I used to have a bunny rabbit named smoochy and every time I read one of your posts you remind me of my rabbit lol. My rabbit who.... btw looked a lot like your cat that you have in your profile pic.... same size and color ya so anyways lol back to the topic....

It wasnt the same text over and over, it was the same level and the same story line though. It was untimed, I wasnt self concious or anything. I think what you said about being bored and distracted was pretty much it though. Hearing my own voice was distracting and then I was also getting bored and thinking how stupid the whole thing was and wondering why I was being tested on reading out loud when all the teachers prefered us to read silently. Oh..... there was no re-reading or re checking information allowed in any part of the tests. I didn't use my finger while I was reading because if I do that the texture of the page bothers and distracts me.

On the memory tests I did awesome (which I guess is kinda odd since Im ADHD) For long term memory I got an extremely high score (one of the highest this doc had ever seen) and for short term memory with numbers, words, lists, stats, I also got a very high score. Then on another auditory test he would tell me rules / reasons for the rules then asked me what the rules were and I did bad on that lol.

smooch
09-17-03, 05:43 PM
Hmm. Thanks for giving me more details on the layout of the different tests. It helps me understand some of the conclusions that were drawn from your results.

The memory test results are interesting. I think the rule one was testing more than just memory. It can be easy to spit back series of numbers, words, lists because our minds can quickly make connections and classifications to help us remember them for a short time. The rule thing involved more analytical thinking...you had to spend some time thinking about the reasons for/concepts of the rules, then he went back and asked you to repeat back the rules. Kind of like being told a story title, then being told this beautiful wonderful story...then after, you're asked to remember the title--who the h#ll cares what the title was?? You connected with the deeper thoughts/concepts involved in the story, and that's what you'd remember.

Your comment about paper texture being distracting made me smile--you are sooo tactile! :D

I hope the pic of my little crazy Puck brings you happy memories of your bunny. :)

Wheel1975
09-18-03, 04:00 PM
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.

Ouch! I tend to be so far off scale here, people don't even want to be near me discussing, much less dicussing ideas.

Being lonely is not cool. Being smart does not make up for it. Being LD and stupid too doesn't average it all out.

Hmm.

LiLMissADDitude
09-18-03, 04:21 PM
Ahhhhh David :(

Ya need to cheer up man. As ADDers we are just on a completely different wave length than most people. The average person cannot keep up with the ADD mind. My mom - a non-ADDer - she won't even have a conversation with me. She either complains Im talking too fast, talking too slow, skipping from topic to topic, not getting to the point, or stating too many points at once!!! But, I dont really care because personally I dont find conversations with her very interesting anyway. I prefer talking to fellow ADDers or to people who have the same personality type as me so they kind of know what Im talking about. Then I also like to talk to people who are my exact opposite just to make them laugh and freak 'em out a lil. For some reason I like getting reactions out of people. Talk about new ideas, new inventions, ways to change the world and some people look at you like youre completely INSANE lol. For some odd reason I like getting that reaction.

I can't imagine how lonely it would be though, to not be around any fellow ADDers. Do you have any ADD friends or family David? Me and my little brother are totally best buds. Our personalitys are almost identical, its really cool. He's 11 now and we talk about what hes doing in school and stuff. He talks just like I did when I was his age. And on the playground he made up the same sorts of games I used to make up.

Well if you dont have anyone close by thats ADD guess what... You have this forum of HUNDREDS OF US!! And we all wanna talk with you about your thoughts and ideas.... so come on, TALK. Whats your latest idea or project that you've got going on??

Wheel1975
09-18-03, 05:40 PM
Thank you.

I am at a point where I realize my future lies in becoming a willing Borg. (Star Trek refference)

I need co -- operation with "them."

Interdependency is required to obtain certain benefits. It is a systems and emergent properties thing.

I'm too old for the sheer exhilleration of it to be enough. I need some of it to stick, interact, to participate.

You are in a great spot and have a great attitude toward yourself. Keep it. Try to create an open mind to the reactions and responses you get from your Mom and others like her in your life.

I, for instance, have come to a point where people just need to point out where they get lost in something I have written, and I can go away without further comment or suggestion from them, and in 5 or fewer rewrites, have something I can still tolerate, and that they can understand. Granted, sometimes i have to present it to them five times too, but hey, i can still get there, most of the time.

Perhaps that may be decades into your future, but keep an open mind. "They" are valuable, just not always right, or complete.

Thanks again.

Wheel1975
09-18-03, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by LiLMissADDitude
Ahhhhh David :(

She either complains Im talking too fast, talking too slow, skipping from topic to topic, not getting to the point, or stating too many points at once!!!



This is a diagnostic gold mine. Where is Amen, Barkley, Goldstein, Silver, Levine, Hartmann, Roberts, Jansen, Hallowell, etc.?

So what if I got a top of scale score on "Block Design?" I CAN see what these parts make out of the work THEY are doing. How do I get connected with them?

And it needs to be a finacially supported gig.


I can't imagine how lonely it would be though, to not be around any fellow ADDers. Do you have any ADD friends or family David?



Yes. But like many here, they are faced the wrong direction... away from the raw data, into the subjective without verifiable objective measures, into drugs exclusive of other factors in setting and task. The analysis is incomplete, the model too blunt; in my opinion little but venting is possible: a valuable pressure relief, but no kind of cure, treatment or accomodation at all.

Real progress is really possible, and is demonstrated in the lives of some people who are themselves too often not accurately aware of the source of their own success. (but there are others, usually in "other" fields, who are cognitively aware of what floats their own boat, for real.) They seize on one thing or another that is incidental to their success and pass by the large looming evidence that is the framework upon which they build and ride. And these are also common points from one to the next success story, regardless of undertanding, drugs, or crystals.

Too simply put, meeting the extant needs (of the specific case in time and space) is all that is needed for "success."

They have little to do with will power, drugs, or crystals, or cognitive understanding. Those are important for what they DO influence, but ADHD life success is not one of them!

:) :/

David / :)

LiLMissADDitude
09-18-03, 11:32 PM
Wow....

If you dont mind me asking what do you do for work/hobbies?

(questions to David but everyone should answer :D )

I'm going to own a school for kids with ADHD and learning differences. None will be forced to take medications..... accomodations and proper teaching methods will be implimented so that all the children can reach their full potential.

It would be great if we had a society of ADD/ADHD people. Everyone could be themselves. No one would be telling parents to medicate the kids because they are over active or because they are day dreamers. We could talk to each other without hearing the rude comments that "normal" people make to us. Ah well for now all we can do is hope for things to be better in the future and if we are in any position to make things better then jump at the chance. And we can try to get into careers and social circles where we wont have to act like someone we arent.

Jonathan
09-19-03, 06:54 PM
Interesting stuff... I'm used to terse aphorism-like contributions from you, David: here you are showing a bit more of yourself, which is nice (too). When I have more time I'll come back and try to give you my response (this is just a resolution, not a threat!) to your - posts here (ontology, I was going to say, but I am trying not to get drawn in just now..)

Agree with your remarks LilMissA about our ADD community here. It's exhilarating, but frustrating (frustrating only for practical reasons - writing certainly has its benefits, but sometimes I'd like to actually talk: there are scores of people here I'm sure I could happily talk to for at least a whole evening one to one)...

Wheel1975
09-20-03, 08:41 AM
I haven't had that test, but I would expect similar results for myself. i don't know if i would expect that to be categorized by "them" as an "ADHD" or "LD" trait. It seems clear that it has to do with an overload of processing capacity with respect to resources in our brains.... capacity, concurrency, collision ?

Wheel1975
09-20-03, 10:00 AM
Even my own posts demonstrate what I critisie about "ADHD" research and findings:

I stated "capacity" when the only thing that can really be said is relative failure. It may not be a "capacity" issue at all. It may be directedness, plenty of "capacity" but misdirected, or timing, or synchronization, or supression or interference or repression or compulsion or positive or negative or both or multiple feed back looping, or straight line vs. recursive processing, perception, aquisition, interpretation, synthesis, storage, retrieval, encoding, decoding,

my point is that we have to back up to what we know we can say for sure, and then look at how to build a differentiation tree, and what the implicit nature must beand what the exposed "nature" of the events are before we start calling it something rapidly recognizable as a misnomer... like "Attention Defict Disorder."

Wheel1975
09-25-03, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by LiLMissADDitude
Wow....

If you dont mind me asking what do you do for work/hobbies?

Work with people with disabilities. i like to say that because I'm not a doctor i can't prescribe,a nd becuase i'm not a surgeon, i acant fix what's wrong. so what i really do is map out problems enough to avoid them, uncover prior successes that reveal what works, and apply that to a person's situation. I literally can't work with (do anything about) disabilites but can only work with a person's abilites, so that is REALLY what i do.

i charge ($150/ hour) without a relevant degree or licensable trade, teaching such people how to use computers to do what they want to do. and making sure their system functions prperly and that they understand what errors are theirs vs. the system or have techsupport in place to help them determine that after i'm gone. i make sure the WHOLE system can work, person, training, computer, software, support, task, setting.

i also have been a good computer programmer from machine language (binary 1's and 0's through assmbler, fortran, and Relational database management systems. Same rate for programming.

i get hired by individuals and schools. I am known for my ingretity, forthrightness, intensity, relentlessness and , beleive it or not, with my professional clients, patience and understanding and non-judgementalness and effectiveness.

(questions to David but everyone should answer :D )

I'm going to own a school for kids with ADHD and learning differences.

Good for you! though other kids need this same "appropriateness that we know we need.

None will be forced to take medications.....

how young are you? this might need to be abridged. Life is complex.

accomodations and proper teaching methods will be implimented so that all the children can reach their full potential.

It would be great if we had a society of ADD/ADHD people. Everyone could be themselves. No one would be telling parents to medicate the kids because they are over active or because they are day dreamers. We could talk to each other without hearing the rude comments that "normal" people make to us.

Ya, but as a tread i started recently demonstrated, we have a long way to go before we know how to avoid offending even each other as we discuss things. One or two incendiary remarks about minimal brain damage and fear of admitting it, and we spun out of control. Moderating statements not with standing, I think we hit the retaining wall. it will take more than a monculture of ADHD to "ease that pain" in my opinion.

Ah well for now all we can do is hope for things to be better in the future and if we are in any position to make things better then jump at the chance. And we can try to get into careers and social circles where we wont have to act like someone we arent.

geeze, and that could be good for anyone ADHD or not!