I have noticed,especially my 4 year old that she only sleeps in a 2 to 3 hour cycle.Its crazy!!!It has always been that way!
I have said time again,doesnt your body just break down after a while?Its not healthy or seemingly possible to run on such little sleep!But sad,this is the way it has been for 4 years.
Shes constantly getting in trouble for waking us all hours several times.I never get use to it.Sometimes I will just drift off and here she comes!
I will literally shake from lack of energy!Its like one huge day cut up in portions for her and me too.

I will be up three to four times in the night.I even put a bed in our bedroom so she wouldnt disturb us so much.

I worry,I worry alot.

In fact here she is........:confused:

Have you talked with her doctor about this?

Does she get enough activity during the day? Maybe you could take 30-40min before or after dinner time to go do some extream activitie with her....

Don't let her drink to much of anything past say like 7pm. And keep her away from juice and sodas because those have a lot of sugar in them...does she take a nap durning the day? Maybe she needs to stop taking them? Have her take a bath in some Lavander bubble bath and keep her bed comfortable and only for bed...also having some baby sleepytime music playing is a good one...I also only leave a soft night light on for my daughter...I make sure to give her and all her lovies hugs and kisses at least once then tell her to lay down or rock (she rocks herself back and forth)

Make her stay in bed....give her a choice of two books and all her lovies...then tell her she needs to stay in bed or she will have to have a punishment...she is only getting up because you are allowing her to...have you thought to set some rules? She is old enough to know she needs to obey her mummy.

My daughter is 2 years old and she is having problems sleeping as well...so my "advice" is only things I've tryed and that have worked for a time or are still working!! :)

the music and the soft lighting really helps....and I took her TV outta her room...that is a HUGE difference for her...very good though.

good luck!!

I dont give either of my girls naps,they have way too much energy.If my 2 year closes her eyes for 10 min. its a all nighter!!!!
They have bounds of energy!They play outside alot and my hubby and I try to wear them down but two hours after beddy by here she is!We just look at each other in total confusion and wonder,how in the world does she do this?!

I have spoken to my pediatrician about this,several times.She was severe colic when born and required alot of attention for a long time(the first year).She is in the 98 percentile of growth all round.She is 4 but the size of a 6 year old.Her brain is larger,bones are larger,height is larger and is much more advanced than others.

He said not to worry because she is proportionate.She has been wearing a 6x for a year now.A size 12w shoe.
She has to have extra calcium supp. because of problems with growing pains.My little one is pretty average and on the mark but the oldest is keeping her awake and starting a bad habit!
They share a room and its a nightmare!!!!!
Last night I tried to keep her light on for her(wasnt too bright)hued pink.
It disturbed my 2 year and kept her up,she was confused-light on means daytime-

We do a ritual everynight and the bedtime is 9 sharp!Cuddles,kisses,story.
I try and try but every night its the same.
Im so frusterated!!!!She ended up in the bed in our room last night as usual.
Its like,shes waiting around for the sun to come up!
The doc said the only way to really know is a sleep study and honestly I know theres no way she would sleep in a sleep center and get a accurate conclusion with cords and monitors hooked to her.What kid would?

Im so tired of it!I have been patient till I could scream!4 years is long enough!Tonight,Ill try music and a softer,darker night light.

Thanks for your response and taking the time.It really helps!

Brandilyn,
I feel your pain. My 1 yr old only sleeps for 2 hours at a time. It's horrible. My older one who's ten, did that until he was 4 1/2. I tried everything with both of them, and nothing worked. My 1 yr old is 100% in everything. He's gonna be 1 on the 16th, and wears 2t. His Dad and I aren't exactly hobbits, he's 6'2, and I'm 5'6. I think you're daughter will grow out of it.

Anna

Well,tonight I put two new night lights in her room.I put a sheet over the doorway to the hall,so she couldnt see the living room(shes scared of it.)I really hope this works!

I know that its normal to get scared but sometimes I think its a excuse to get up.Shes bright eyed and bushy tailed!
If she gets up Ill walk her back.Dear Lord HELP ME!!!!!!!

I feel for you cause my little girl is 8 and has not slept since day one.she started off with colic and now she is ADHD combined tyoe and we found out she has insomnia.She is on medication to try to help her sleep and some nights she does sleep but others im lucky to get her to sleep a hour the whole night.:faint:

Im with ya!I hope that she dosnt inherate my ADD!Insomnia??????HMMMMMMMMM.I never thought of that.How did your pediatrician reach that conclusion?

The past couple of nights havnt been so bad.The sheet covering the entrance to the living rm. is working pretty good.

I got about 4 hrs.last night!Thats alot for me!
Im so worn out and I got my meds changed so I really need a breather for myself to see how I feel.
How am I suppose to when Im exausted,stressed and overwhelmed!!!!!!

I feel sorry for my little lilli pooh!I hate being grumpy with her in the night!The funny thing is she actually is starting to understand why Im grumpy!LOL!!!!

Shes so smart.

Our now five and a half year old sounds like your daughter's twin ;)

He still does come into our room, but we have bedding on the floor that he has to go to. This alleviates the foot in the face problems etc, when he gets into our bed:) Alot for him is high anxiety. Fear of dark and being alone in the room, is age appropriate. If they are ADHD it just throws fuel on the fire.

Here are a few things, that after trial and error, have made his "up" times down to one or two.
1) A good amount of time being physically active OUTSIDE, during the day
2) Watch the carbs in the evening. Try more protein...even for snack before bedtime.
3) Quite music, or a sound machine with a repetitivenoise pattern..he likes ocean waves
4) Playing with playdough, or building things before bed..no TV or fast paced media
5) I now give him a flashlight and some books to look at, after I read to him. It has helped him get to sleep much more quickly and he can look at them if he wakes up during the night. Might help to even say, "Hey, if you wake up and cannot sleep,turn on your light and play IN YOUR ROOM." She may fall asleep on her floor...but it is HER floor

Some parents say that Melatonin has done the job for their kids. HOWEVER, you need to watch the amount and duration and definitely talk to Dr if they are currently on meds at all. Our son is not. We have found Omega 3 vitamins with DHA/EPA a positive thing.

I myself have a hard time sleeping at night , but find that reading really helps me alot. Still envious of my hubby, who literally hits snore mode within a minute of his head hitting the pillow
:faint:

Last night was a nightmare!She was literally up all night!She never went to sleep.

My body felt like it had no more to give,a breakdown.Plus my hubby freaked out on her!I hated it!!!!!
I talked to her too.I felt terrible for being so cross but I just dont know what to do........

On a weekend when you and your hubby can take the time to relieve each other you could try the put them back in bed system. This is where one of you get up with her and put her back in bed and then sit with her but NO talking and NO eye contact and NO soothing (back rubbing, patting, etc.) until she goes back to sleep. Each time you lay her back down move a little farther away. It sounds like she has problems self-soothing and getting in that "sleep zone" on her own. Also, refrain from conversations and anything that is too stimulating.

Essentially, you are teaching her how to put herself back to sleep when she becomes wakeful. This is pretty typical behavior with kids. Their brains are growing at such an amazing rate and all those new brain connections popping in there are bound to make some kids wake up, but sleep IS necessary not only for body growth but brain growth and developement as well.

My kids never really had a problem going back to sleep, but my oldest is not only a night owl but an insomniac which is really taking its toll on me. For her we think we may be looking at a physiological reason so until we get more info I am trying to be understanding but it is killing me.

Good Luck!

Ive been looking in on melatonin for children.The problem with that is that there is little info from few studies.
I feel so sorry for her.Its really causing huge problems within the family!My hubby and I are at each others throats!!
Hes griping,saying he hasnt slept just like me.My responce is "you got 3 or 4 straight!I get 1!"I have very little pitty for him!

I have been dealing withy this for 4 years,I just recently started letting him get a taste!He dosnt like it a bit!
I have tried everything.I love supernanny and sometimes I long for it to come on!LOL!!!!Its my support.I get alot of wisdom and common sense from it.

The melatonin issue,I have to look deeper till I make a conclusion.I would never want to hurt her with something not safe.

I know I have to do something as a mother though.It is affecting every aspect of her life.
Shes not tired at all but I am and that makes me nervous and anxious!Plus,she going to start to feel bad over it.She knows and sees that its not good for any of us.
Im just trying to support her and love her bunches right now.

There has to be a reason.I mentioned ADD running in families and he exploded!He dosnt want to hear anything other than Im not doing something right!
Its common sense to know a child whos 4 years old needs more than a hour to 4 hours of sleep to function properly.
Also,shes becoming quite aggressive and having a hard time controlling anger.....

Patience,Ikeep thinking.

Brandilyn,
As I was reading your post to my mom, she said, "That was you!". To make a long story short, I was diagnosed as gifted when I was 5. My parents would not let me attend the campus for gifted students because it was too far. When I was 8 the ADD kicked in a HUGE way! My grades were all F's, and I was awful. Highschool was awful. My self esteem took a beating from all the failure. I am the classic ADD inattentive case. Anyway, my mom told me that I would hardly ever sleep! She said when I was younger I wanted to stay up and talk. As I started to read, I kept myself preoccupied with that. Same thing with my son! He's gifted, and ADD as well. THis could be your case. I know it's hard, my one yr. old is putting me through the reamers, but be pateint.

Yes!Ann,I could have cried reading your post....Im so glad you said that.She is extremely smart for her age,gifted with drawing and conversation skills.
She sits up at night just talking to herself.She never needs sleep!Tonight,I let her talk to her neice(5 years old)on the phone for over a hour!
They are buddies and it really seemed to calm her down.It wasnt such a battle to get her in bed.But,I know,she will be up in a hour or so.And then in another hour or so................
She said she would stay in her bed tonight because she didnt want to get yelled at or me and daddy be mean and make her cry.I could have literally locked myself in the bathroom and put a bag over my head and blown my brains out!

The guilt is so heavy,like a weight on my chest.I ache for her.I have actually stood in theyre room at night and layed my hands on them praying to God to take the fear,restlessness away from her.I do every night.

My hubby shuts out any ADD or insomnia thoughts!Hes a idiot!He is uneducated about medicine and he is purly tribal in his thinking.It makes me sick!!!

What did your mom do?I dont know what to do anymore.I know I will have to handle this by myself as usual.My hubby is way to verbally and physically agressive during these night events!

Now I remember why I just handled it myself!

Brandilyn,
My son had the same issues and was diagnosed with a sleeping disorder before age 4. His doctore stated him out on a very low dose of Tenex when Trazadone caused severe hedaches and he has taken it ever since. We recently did a sleep study...partly because we also needed EEG results too, and he was diagnosed with Restless Leg Syndrome. His study shows that he comes to bull arousal 10 times per hr on a average.

Even when he's on his meds there are nights when he doesn't sleep well...but at least he's sleeping in longer stretches and averages 7 hrs per night now. It has made a difference in his behavior and hyperactivity too. The tenex was a lifesavor before we but him on meds for ADHD...now we will be weening him off the Tenex in favor of Neurontin for the RLS.

My hubby isn't good when he's woken up either...guess who the sleep disorder comes from?..I finally handled taking Caleb to the Developmental pediatrician and once he got his meds and started sleeping longer, my husband changed his tune.

If her roaming the house is a prob...set rules for night wake up time so that she has some quiet things to entertain and make her feel more secure. My son uses his dinosaurs...my daughter uses Barbies...The trick is to tell them that if they need to be up they are not allowed to disturb anyone else except you in an emergency...trust me 4 yr olds consider a lot to be an emergency, so if there's a prob she'll come to you.

let go of the guilt...people tend to be grumpy when they are woken up... and if you aren't getting sleep it just makes the stress that much worse. I think if you explain things to her she'll understand enough.

caleb actually went through 2 nights without sleeping about 9 monthe ago...not even Atavan worked...then he just slept for about 5 hrs. i was ready to fall over and he was ready to go.

Thank you so much!It means so much to me to hear all this.I know somethings wrong.I just wish my hubby wasnt such a closed minded idiot!I dont think herealizes what this is doing to her.
He sees meds as BAD and he cant stop me but he has a hand in her.That hakes me mad.

He says he never went to the doc growing up and hes fine.NO HES NOT!!!!!His mom was a raging alcolholic(still is)and he has so many issues its not even funny!

I want to help her but I know he will fight me tooth and nail all the way.I guess Ill have to have my pediatrician gripe his butt out and make him feel like a close minded idiot like my doc did him on ADD.
My instincts are out of control!!!Somethings wrong,I wanna help.Isnt that what were suppose to do?He always worries about money and spending all our money on doc visits.HE DOSNT PAY TH GIRLS DOC BILLS!!!!!!!MY parents do!

I should have said all that crap to him when he was in the hospital last week.The kidney stones in your head,with some self discipline youll be fine.UGGGGGGGGGG

Brandilyn,
My mom was terrified, because my Dad would spank me horribly. Medication was not an option, so a psych told her to put different lengths of string and beads or cheerios next to my bed. I would make necklaces and bracelets for everyone. I would read, color, basically anything that would keep me busy. My son would watch videos. I have a book called Positive Discipline, to keep it short, one of the authors only slept 4 hours a night since he was born. His mom would just put projects in his room. Does she seem exhausted and irritable?

No,shes not tired but she is agressive.Just toward her little sister.Lilli has a short fuse when it comes to her.
Lillis very mature and advnced for her age and has a hrd time tolerating a 2 year old.She gets along much better with her 7 yr.old brother.They are pretty much on the same level!

She is kicking,hitting,screaming and strangling her sis!!!!
Yesterday she was choking Aunalee and I was running and screaming telling her to stop.By the time I got to them the two yr. was gagging.Plus,the 2 year is very petite and tiny.Lilli is the size of a 6 year.
She gets frusterated with little kids her age and under.She sees them as cute but quickly gets irritated at the baby like behavior.

Thats a fabulous idea!I would totally do it but the girls share a room!The 2 year needs complete dark and quiet to sleep well.
I have a "back room"thats where I sit and write on the puter!LOL!!!!The reason for not using it is because it leads straight out the back door!I have two large dogs,a lab-70lbs.and my pride and joy,Great Pyraneese-160lb. 1 yr.male.So,I dont really have to worry bout someone getting in but she can get out!
Im going to strongly consider this.I can buy a new bolt and keep the key with me.I just bought huge locks for all my gates.
It just feels weird to think of putting her back here.Its disconnected ya know?The kitchen seperates the rest of the house.

Alot to think about.........

Brandilyn,

I'm no expert, but what you're describing really does sound like you've got a very bright possibly ADHD child -- if she's four, she's old enough to have an evaluation by a psychologist or pediatrician well versed in diagnosing ADHD. I understand the husband problem, mine is pretty similar, although he is slowly coming around some (our daughter is now almost 8 and things are pretty obvious).

This might be a terrible suggestion, but if meds and proper evaluation aren't an option, have you tried sleeping with her? That's what I did with mine. She was always waking up by herself, but when I slept with her it seemed to comfort her and she'd sleep all night. The good news is that I don't have to do that anymore and she sleeps through the whole night herself. A lot of ADHD kids have very active imaginations (I know -- stating the terribly obvious:rolleyes: ), and need that extra level of comforting and human touch. While it's not popular in this country to sleep with your kids, in much of the world it is standard operating procedure. One night after I had spanked my daughter 7 times in a row for getting out of bed when she was the same age your daughter was, I broke -- I couldn't do it anymore!:( It just broke my heart, I stopped fighting it and just let her crawl in bed with me. Like I said, she did outgrow the need for that as she got older. Good luck to you -- it sounds really challenging.

Scattered

Thanks Scattered.Matt came home for some lunch a little bit ago and I tried to talk to him about being more open to possibilities of anything other than being undisciplined.I told him ADD is genetic and she cant help what happening and the fighting it was causing would mentally damage her in the long run.

I tried to tell him how I was as a child,I was the same.I remember being miserable,feeling alone,sitting in a dark house with everyone else asleep.

I said I wanted to use the back room and put a bed and her lamp in there today with some toys.She was exstatic,he was against.He said that we were showing her it was okay to get up whenever she wants and thats not being a good parent.
I said that is true if there are no underlying problems.
There is obviously a problem here!

He said locking her in her room was a option and letting her cry it out!I was like,are you a moron?She is not a typical 4 year old!She knows whats going on and she cant help it!
Plus,why would we want to lock our other child in there with her and keep her up and freak her out!!!!!??????
He said she would get over it!He started in on me always thinking meds were the answer to everything and I wasnt gonna do that to her!Thats completely untru,he is just a radical!

I use my common sense!I dont want to medicate her at 4.But I am totally open to taking special steps to make her more comfy.This way she can turn on her light,leave it on all night if she pleases.Look at books,play with barbies,whatever soothes her.

I finally got through his thick head!!!!!!!We are gonna give it a try.My dad is coming to take her to dance class and Im gonna baby proof the room.Make it pretty and inviting.Shes excited.Me too.
Even so,I might just move in with her!!!LOL!!!!!

Hey it only took about 5 minutes of my kids pediatrician spouting the statistal horrors of unmedicated ADHD for girls before my husband caved. Ours didn't pull any punches and although I knw most of them she actually gave a black and white list, and it made an impact on him.

I think men get into the genetic blame game a bit too much when it comes to disorders, or maybe they don't want to accept that thier own genetics may contribute to the problem. I think I'd have to go for the sleep over not getting my child meds for this. Caleb's behavior is much better now, although we still have our bad days,occassionally.

As I write my 3 1/3 year old is in my bed -- her dad will be thrilled:rolleyes: ! She says the noises her in room bother her. Usually I can get her to bed in her own room, but she's been waking up frequently during the night or early morning hours and coming to crawl into bed with us. I know the shrinks and child experts would all say to make her stay in her own room, but you know what -- this stage is short and precious. She's got a sensitive nature, and I'm just not willing to make that big a deal out of this. She's different than her older sister, but has a lot of ADHD like emotional reactivity and physical energy, plus she is very sensitive to noises -- so that may be going on too -- I'm not sure yet.

Scattered

Tonight shes with my parents!!!!I get to sleep!!!YAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!I told my hubby that I was just going to do what was easiest right now,for her and me.
If he didnt like it,tough cookie!
I crossed the own bedroom past her.She was exstatic!!!Im still pondering it though.Its across the house.Ill think more tomm.
I have talked to her and told her she is just fine and its not a big deal.We will work around it.Mommy understands!

I told my hubby,you dont want her to go through what I did doyou?He said dont jump to conclusions.In my heart,I know.......she probably is.......

But,if it comes to any other problems that scream ADD I will cross him in a heartbeat!
My instincts are way too strong to ignore when a childs in need.

I have to do whats best for her.Its my job......
She said she terrified of her room.Even with sis in there with her.She says she sees her dolls and bears moving.The scary thing is,I remember like yesterday myself doing the same.
My mom found me one night beating my Crickett(remember those?)doll to a pulp and she said wahat are you doing!!!!!I thought I saw her eyes moving and talking!

I remember,I really thought it was.......
Thats why I understand.I think maybe if I give her the other room with very few toys,none with faces she will feel better.Plus,my dogs are huge!!!70lbs.and 160lbs.They live and sleep outside that door.She might feel comforted by that.I may let my prized 160lb.Pyraneese sleep next to her inside.

Idea............

I'm forty one years old..and I have never slept through the entire night, unless I 'take' something for it...of course that doesn't work with kids..
I have no idea what's worse...being the person who is unable to sleep..or those who have to deal with it...
Nova

of couse people with ADHD don't sleep at night.


at the night time , my behavior that I researched about myself , I like researching during the night time , So I'll be reading really cool books listening to my ipod.


because during the night time if you sleep , you may wont' wake up , you need the light to protect you in sleep stupid.


what don't you know?

Okay........?????
Anyway,last night was great!Lots of rest for me and little lulu.She sleeps wonderful,all night.
Today,I have decided to move the spare bed in the back bedroom.It will just be her choice.If its a bad night,she can go in there and turn her lamp on and play with her things.She loves clay,making art and such.

I will keep her room the same way.This is just going to be a alternative for her rather than getting into trouble or waking the entire household.

I think it will really be good for her.She needs her own space.Lulu is constantly tearing her art up and getting on her nerves!
She will feel like a big girl.

I missed her last night.I woke and walked down the hall to look in.Lulu was fast asleep but Lilli poohs bed was bare.So sad.......
I put a big baby doll under the covers.LOL!!!!!!!Her empty bed was too much.

Cant wait to get her back today!!!!!She needs to see me now that Im properly medicated.I can handle things much better.

Shes doing really well.She knows that she has her big girl room as a option.Its hers.A place for art and her learning activities.No dolls with faces,just productive play and art.

Shes very proud and so am I!!!!!!Shes my big girl!

Big girl room is working beautifully!!!!!Classical music,no faces of dolls,bears or anything that can turn to something spooky at night!
Nothing but art,art,art.She loves it.

I call it her option roo.She usually starts out in the old room with 2 year old sis and then wakes,comes to me.I walk her in there turn lamp,light in bathroom and music on.

Shes out in 10min. now.She slept over 4 hours last night,in there!!!!!!Im so thankful to you girls for all the advice!!!!
I even noticed she woke again and decided to paint and make some sketches!They were happy and beautiful!

No mess either!Shes really something.She just needs special attention and bigger things.Shes a whiz kid!She needed the older treatment.She feels smart,controled and independant.Theres a glimmer in her eyes,I love it!!!
Hubby tried to tell her stepbrother when he picked him up this weekend that he had fixed the room for him!!!!Of course the poor child was really dissapointed and I could tell he was hurt.

I asked him to tell me what was on his mind,I can help.(Im a talker,I want my kids to be heard)he said,crying,daddy said that he made me a room of my own and now I see its not.Its not fair!!!

I felt compassion but stood firm.
I said daddy shouldnt have told you that,he knew that I made the room for Lilli,she needs privacy and has trouble sleeping and being scared.Im sorry that he set you up for that but she would love for you to play,color,paint even maybe sleep in there if she wants.It is her room so its her choice.(Info-I tried to make the room for my stepson about 2 years ago.Matt said no,its his room to watch sports!The room caused so much trouble in marriage,I moved all furniture out!

Its been the laundry,computer room ever since.Not used and cold.I worked very hard on this and just like always,he took credit(slimy)and then just like always tried to take it from her.
I swear,he would take our last bite of bread so he could have it!!!!!!

Of course,its caused problems and bad behavior,being mean when Im not looking,and fighting and hurt feelings this weekend!

Lilli broke down,she cried hit the wall,turned red and slammed the door saying he took it!He can have it!
I ran after her and stopped her in front of my teasing hateful stepson and said.No Lilli,this is your home.That is your room.I made it.No one can take it from you.I wont let them.I meant my husband and the sad thing is,she already knows that!

I could have killed him slowly and taken pictures to hang on the fridge!!!!!!LOL!!!!(crazy laugh)

Why?Why does he do this to us?????How could he do that to her?Of course,now that I have meds,I grew balls!!!Not literally!LOL!!!!!I double triple dare him to even say one thing about her room!!!!!

He is on a downhill spiral again....cold,uncaring and just not there.That hurts the most.These babies are so precious.I cant tolerate it!

What man takes credit for something his wife did and not even out of love,thats what my intentions are.Then not only lies,but gives something very special away to another child who has another home,room and lots of everything he wants.Hes the only child there.Here he is 1 of three!He also had A.D.H.D.,of course undiagnosed....

You cant even imagine the hell I go through every other weekend!

Lilli is my focus right now.Now that that is taken care of now its time for some one on one with little lulu!2year.
Im spread so thin!I do it all myself and Im proud of it!
Thanks again!