I'm sure all of us know about some people believeing that ADD/ADHD goes away when puberty starts. I don't think this is true. I think that if you have ADD and the symptoms are no longer there you have found ways to get around the symptoms enough to make it seem like you no longer have it. What do you think? Does it go away like some people claim or does it stay with you forever?

There has been some research to suggest that some hyperactivity symptoms go away by adolescence.

If I remember correctly it was something like 35%.

Anecdotally, I've personally never seen too much of it.
However,that doesn't mean those data aren't correct.

It's an excellent question and I hope that there's more ongoing research that continues to look at it.

If there were some reason(s) behind that that went beyond individual differences, then that would be important information.

Thanks for bringing it up.

It's something I wondered about.

If your ADHD disappeared in puberty, then did you truly ever have ADHD? From what I've read ADHD people's brains are 'wired' differently, and it doesn't seem like something that you should be able to grow out of.

Some people say that ordinary hyperactive kids are often labelled ADHD when they aren't, and I wonder if that's what accounts for the "grow out of it" phenomenon.

Some would say that it really doesn't go away in its entirity.

If you truly had ADD/ADHD then it would continue into adulthood, like we have recently discovered. Mental disorders never go away, they stay with you for life. Being on medication for life is another topic entirely. Anyway, I just wanted to see what everything thought about this.

Greenday...

I remember "mellowing" for lack of a better term in my early to mid 20's. I just attributed it to getting married and settling down. What I realize now is that I had built up several defense mechanisms to function in public and they were taking hold around that time. I also discovered my metabolism changed around 22-23 years of age as I put on a good 20 pounds. Around that time my hyperactivity seemed to decrease as well. I didn't 'have' to fidget all the time, just some of the time. :-)

Now, at 40, I can look back and see where the defense mechanisms broke down and where I had built up new ones. I can also see the ADHD never went away. I just changed, subconsciously, how I reacted and dealt with it...

Just my 2 cents...

Eric

In my own personal life, no.
Stress enhances my hyperactivity, and my 'jumbled/scattered thoughts' immensely..It's just that I forget I'm stressed, while being stressed...and unless there is someone objective, who is around me, who grounds me, I won't realize my actions or statements as being so heightened...
Of course stress is subjective..so whatever stresses me out, doesn't necessarily mean that it will be a stressor for someone else..
Nova

In my own personal life, no.
Stress enhances my hyperactivity, and my 'jumbled/scattered thoughts' immensely.. If one were to substitute the word "stimulation" for "stress" . . .

I've been wondering about contexts. I think I read somewhere that there may be situations that seem to bring out the ADD traits more for a person (and I don't know if those conditions/contexts would be same for everyone or every type).

I've thought about this because it was only when returning to school, where I had to work with deadlines more and had a more erratic, less structured schedule (no longer 8-5 everyday), and not a regular paycheck that behaviors that had seemed to be more dormant (or at least not spiraling out of control) came back to the surface (late bills, all-nighters, etc.). Then I remembered... oh yeah I faced this stuff/did this stuff in undergrad and the last time I was working on a Masters! But, some things like running late and having to hurry to get somewhere or doing my taxes on April 15, had never faded into the background.

So maybe too it's not necessarily that it's gone away, or that we've come up with strategies that work without even realizing it (although that happens), but that the situations and circumstances themselves that we've found ourselves in worked with the ADHD instead of against it.

bythesea

Well, as we're often reminded around here, if there is no dysfunction there is no Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. The key words being deficit and disorder -- the ADHD syndrome become traits not a disorder. Since, ADHD traits exist on a continuium and since ADHD is a disorder, it seems like theoretically at least one might mature out of it or develop suitable accomodations/lifestyle so that it could no longer be considered a disorder.

My guess (heck, more like my experience) is that while some might "out grow" it, that they would probably still live their lives pretty close to that line that seperates "normal" from "disorder" and that aging, hormonal changes, and changes in the structure, support, responsibilities, or stimulation in one's life could knock them across that line quite easily.

In high school, I hit the right combination of extra curricular activities, parental support and structure, stimulation, diet, exercise, hormones, spirituality, and who knows what else that it would have seemed pretty silly to say I had a disorder (my opinion-- maybe those who knew me then would disagree:p ). I was a class and student association officer, honor student, musician, responsible student who had good friends and no major comorbid or apparent ADHD problems. I certainly wasn't perfect, but no one is and that can still fall in the normal realm.

My current situation before meds as a mother, wife, and home school teacher, was completely different. My psychologist had no trouble emphatically stating I was ADHD and hasn't changed his mind over the past eight months. It's just too obvious, just like when I was a child. So maybe someone more knowledgable than me can explain if such a profile would make a person ADHD from 3 - 13; normal from 14 - 18; and ADHD in adulthood?

Sorry to go on so, but this topic really interests me, thanks for bringing it up!:)

Scattered

My current situation before meds as a mother, wife, and home school teacher, was completely different. My psychologist had no trouble emphatically stating I was ADHD and hasn't changed his mind over the past eight months. It's just too obvious, just like when I was a child. So maybe someone more knowledgable than me can explain if such a profile would make a person ADHD from 3 - 13; normal from 14 - 18; and ADHD in adulthood?


AH Ha small children cause ADHD!!!!!both being one have haveing one or more..sorry it is late.....



discovered my metabolism changed around 22-23 years of age as I put on a good 20 pounds. Around that time my hyperactivity seemed to decrease as well. I didn't 'have' to fidget all the time, just some of the time. :-)


Slowing metabolism and decreased activity make prefect scense.....which is why I was very hyper and the high activity level has decreased some wht over the years.




If I remember correctly it was something like 35%.


You have a good memory....

From "Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorders Throughtout the Lifespan" by Patricia Quinn, Md and Nancy Ratey Ed.M,ABDA,ACC

page 81

"It has been estimated from Available literature that aproximately one third of adults with ADHD progress satisfactorily into thier adult years (Hechtman, 2000) Another third continue to experience some problems, while a final one third experience and often develope significant problems. By combining a number of well conducted outcome studies, it is reasonable to conclude that 10% to 20% of adults with histories of AD/HD experience few problems. Sixty precent continue to demonstrate symptoms of AD/HD and experience social, academic, and emotional problems to at least a mild to moderate degree. Finaly, 10% to 30% develope more serious life problems, including those involving the legal system and anti-social behavior. They often experience co-occuring problems such as depression and anxiety (Goldsmith &Teeter-Ellison, 2002)

This last week has shown me something interesting. The higher the stress, the more distracted I become. I worked a split-shift last week, tried to make sense of a newsroom that had no leadership, develop a new way of doing the morning show and trying to save the martial arts school I attend.

Throw on top of that the uncertainty of my new job in radio, the pressure from an old boss to come back to aviation, my wife's nervousness about the whole situation and that damnable coffee I had on Friday; I'm feeling like I did back in my late teens early 20's...scatterbrained and fried!

So I guess, like someone said above, these traits can come an go based on circumstances...at least that's what I've been seeing this last week...

Eric

I went back and read some material on this from a Barkley on-line course .

What he said was that the symptoms may diminsh over time but will always be in excess (to the point of impairment), compared with the non ADHD person.

Regarding "Does it ever go away "

Read this post " How Many Stages of ADD Are There (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1857&highlight=stages+add) "

Taking paticular not to this wonderful addition to my post by Smooch which is linked to this page

The ADD Journey (http://www.addresources.org/newsletter_sample.php#journey)

It has help myself and many others understand where they are at with regards to there place in the lifespan of " Their ADD Journey "

__________________________________________________ ______

Also

May you get as much insight from this as I did


__________________________________________________ ______

"THE STATION"





You can read this wonderfull passage BY:
ROBERT HASTINGS










Tucked away in our subconscious is an idyllic vision. We see ourselves on a long trip that spans the continent. We are travelling by train. Out the windows we drink in the passing scene of cars on nearby highways, of children waving at a crossing, of cattle grazing on a distant hillside, of smoke pouring from a power plant, of row upon row of corn, and wheat, of flatlands and valleys, of mountains and rolling hillsides, of city skylines and village halls.

But uppermost in our minds is the final destination. On a certain day at a certain hour we will pull into the Station. Bands will be playing and flags waving. Once we get there so many wonderful dreams will come true and the pieces of our lives will fit together like a completed jigsaw puzzle. How restlessly we pace the aisles, daming the minutes for loitering - waiting, waiting, waiting for the Station.

"When we reach the Station, that will be it!" we cry. "When I'm eighteen." "When I buy a new 450 SL Mercedes Benz!" "When I put the last kid through college." "When I have paid off the mortgage!" "When I get a promotion!" "When I reach retirement, I shall live happily ever after!"

Sooner or later we must realize there is no Station, no one place to arrive at once and for all. The true joy of life is the trip. The Station is only a dream. It constantly out distances us.

"Relish the moment" is a good motto, especially when coupled with psalm 118:24
"This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

It isn't the burdens of today that drive men mad.

It is the regrets over yesterday and the fear of tomorrow.

Regret and fear are twin thieves who rob us of today.

So, stop pacing the aisles and counting the miles. Instead, climb more mountains, eat more ice cream, go barefoot more often, swim more rivers, watch more sunsets, laugh more, cry less. Life must be lived as we go along.



The Station will come soon enough.

Keep in mind that the teenage years are times of great upheaval in every way. I personally believe I went through some major "brain changes" around 14-16, and I think it could be possible for a small minority of people to have their brains evolve around this time such that they are no longer "ADD brains." I could be wrong on that, but until it's proven impossible, I'd consider it a possibility.

The consensus out in the world seems to be that one is born with ADHD and it never really goes away. The first symptoms appear by age 7 , but some people are not diagnosed with it until they are older. A few are diagnosed with adult ADD in their 40's and 50's. Some children with ADHD will appear to have diminished symptoms as they grow into adolseence, but in all probability, if they had add as a child they will continue to have it all their life. ADHD commonly occurs as a comorbid condition with other condition such as bipolar disorder and autism spectrum disorders.

Also, there are a number of treatable problems that can cause "curable" add-like symptoms. These include metal poisioning, thyroid problems, diabetes, and environmental stress. In these cases the symptoms of adhd may dissapear when the underlying cause is treated. In the case of "true" ADD, it can be considered a lifelong event and can be treated effectively, but a "cure" is not to be expected anytime soon.

Me :D

I believe that the hyperactivity can subside over time.

The inattention and disinhibition likely persist throughout life, but may appear to subside as the person learns coping mechanisms, and becomes able to adjust his or her environment.

Gary: Thanks for posting the link to the ADD Resources newsletter about the ADD Journey. Good info there about coaching and etc. too.

Saw myself waffling between stages 2 and 3, and in this blurb:

"Often people don't continue along the road of self-improvement because they don't acknowledge their small steps of Progress. The person with ADD often expects a difficult problem to be solved rapidly. "I want it yesterday." If it can't be solved soon, the person gets frustrated and gives up."

I've been feeling frustrated because I was expecting to make big, immediate changes.
~~bythesea

Personally, I feel it stays with you in some way for the rest of your life. I mean, I always knew that I thought differently and that my processing was just a little 'off' but now that Im older it seems a lot more so. It use to freak me out as a kid to know what I would be like grown up and here I am~freaking out, if you will. Im hoping to make sense of it all eventually~after all finding this forum is a start.
Thats my opinion....

Does ADD go away?

I think that would depend on what ADD is. I personally think that there are many things that get stuck in the ADD basket. (Psychology is just starting to evolve past the "If he coughs, it is a cold" stage). There are many outward behaviors that are bound to get diagnosed as ADD or ADHD in children.

In most cases ADD has a fundamentally different brain "structure".

Research shows that:

The ADD brain has more gray matter:
http://www.loni.ucla.edu/Research/Projects/ADHD.shtml
"Gray matter density abnormalities in posterior temporal and inferior parietal lobes are actually the result of increased gray matter in the ADHD patients relative to controls. The increase in gray matter in these regions could result from reduced synaptic pruning that normally occurs as a part of human brain maturation. It is also plausible that a lack of normal myelination has occurred in this region. While we measured “gray matter density” at the cortical surface, arguably a reduction of white matter in the same region could result in an apparent abundance of gray matter."

This is a result of "abnormal synaptic pruning" (The ADD brain does not "simplify" the way many people's brains do)

The ADD brain is smaller:
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_id=218391839&cat=1_5

Personally I think that it being "smaller" is actually caused not by difference in total "neurons" but a difference in the type of neuronal connections. White matter is highly "electrical" and needs to be insulated therefore most likely takes up more space. Gray matter is heavily connected and dense. It does not need as much "space' to work.

For the most part...the researchers have the preconception that ADD is a disorder...so a small brain sounds like a pretty bad thing to have. This is misguided.

The ADD brain has a different "dopamine pathway" than most brains:
http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/09_00/DRD4_gene.shtml

This is created many different ways, thus different dopamine affecting medications work differently for different people.

The ADD brain is less "electric" than most brains:
This results in scans showing "less activity" in our brains...They don't even try to explain that ironic conclusion. Less activity is a sign of "a disorder" so lets not look any further.

We actually have "more activity" that is less electrical as indicated by:

Lower amounts of GABA
Lower amounts of glucose consumption (generates energy in the Krebs cycle)
Lower amounts of Adenosine

The ADD brain is "slower" than most brains:
http://add-adhd.lifetips.com/tip/81402/adhd-add-behavior-management/why-do-adhd-kids-get-hyperactive/adhd-hyperactivity-the-brain.html

These are all things that do not "go away".

So why does ADD "go away" in some cases? Because it is not diagnosed correctly. ADD is diagnosed through observation of behaviors.
It has rarely been diagnosed using brain scans, genetic testing, or a "real" scientific method that works. There is no "model" of ADD that describes the functional nature of ADD...instead it is viewed as a "disorder of impulse" or "attention deficit"
Impulse control is an issue in:
Narcissism
Antisocial Personality Disorder
Aspeger's and Autism
Schizotypal Disorders
Children in Abusive Homes
ADD
Attention deficits can be caused by many things...

So what is ADD? If you know the answer to that, then you know if it can "go away"

Rant
My view is: That ADD is a functional cognitive type in the human race. Nature does not mess around. Things that are not functional, die and are not selected for.
Most aberrations and disorders are rare. Anything that is not rare is part of the human survival strategy. Any animal that has a highly social survival construct also has specific types adapted for specific functions. Humans are no different. We are animals just the same. A queen bee does not become a worker bee and vice versa.

ADD does not go away.



PS. Have you ever wondered if our brains are smaller, slower and less efficient than other brains...why are many of our greatest minds ADD?

Science does not function well under assumption. If they could just stand back and rid themselves of the silly notion that the human race is filled with cognitive "malfunctions" then it is the most simple thing to see. Clear to observe. But hey...if there is no consensus...then it is not real ;-)

I believe that the hyperactivity can subside over time. My experience supports the literature that states that the outward hyperactivity may evolve into an internal restlessness. I still talk more than the average person and must still use great effort to control this.

Longevity runs in the family and you would have to see my extended family to understand that hyperactivity is still present at advanced ages.

Spend some time with a large group of seniors whose average age is 81. Hyperactivity does continue into adulthood.

Hormone levels are sometimes a facor for ADHD disappearing, (typically in boys). According to our doctor, testoserone actually helps calm the brain which is why boys see a lessening of symptoms as they go through puberty and into adulthood. If they have good structural supports they may be able to cope and see see fewer symptoms.

With girls it is often the opposite. Estrogen plays heck with ADHD symptoms and a girl on stimulant medication may need a drastic increase in meds. I can also attest that my symptoms were way worse when I was pregnant. And stress will create inattention in a average person without ADHD so it makes sense that ours would be worse under stress too.

Jaycee, do you really believe that ADHD disappears?

bythesea Im glad it was useful

Jaycee, do you really believe that ADHD disappears?I think there are a rare few that actually will go for years without seeing any symptoms, but I also believe that the signs will return in their later years and possibly get labled as dementia because of their age...so cured...no. I believe that with some genetic luck and a good support symptoms it kinda goes into remission...but then put back under stress...ot if the support system is removed..the signs will be there again.

Personally my adhd symptoms have fluctuated throughout my life, and I am just now getting medication at 34 for it. I have compensated for it or had a good enough support system that it has just recently become chaotic enough for me to seek treatment.

My experience supports the literature that states that the outward hyperactivity may evolve into an internal restlessness. I still talk more than the average person and must still use great effort to control this.

Yes, that's basically what I mean by "subside" (not "disappear" :))