I don't know how to be a good borg.

i need lots of outside help, and i am willing to provide lots of outside help in exchange.

just few poeple are really interested in either half of the trade!

They don't appreciate me in their business, and they don't want to participate the way I need them to in my own.

For people who "couls do it for themselves" doing something for them is clearly co-dependent.

but if i am truely unable to do certain things for myself, interdepenced is the appropriate name for the SAME scenario of actions.

David: I would REALLY like to participate in this thread....I really would...but I don't know how to participate or help....Are you asking for suggestions as to how to establish interdependence in potential outside relationships....?

I don't know how to be a good borg either:)

Thanks,

From my way of thinking it is an exploration of the differently drawn lines in recovery and dependence as impacted by ADHD, LD, Aspergers, or other characteristics I might have as compared with people otherwise not so constituted.

If you have observed "different lines" or "different appropriatenesses" that depend on ADHD characteristics as they intersect Independence, dependence, co-dependence and interdependence, I'd say that would be appropriate to this thread.

What do you think?

Wow....deep, thought-provoking topic.....I mean I am definitely codependent to start.....have many things done for me....whether or not I can do them for myself and I do many things for others whether or not they can do them for THEIRSELVES...and I'm LD'ed BUT yet a survivor....(what ADD'er ISN"T).......

I would LIKE to find ways to be independent....which I've never really been YET...and then find a way to be a team with others and be in relationships with others and ultimately strive for interdependence.....

My strength as a survivor and my strength as being able to find creative ways to "teach" myself will ultimately prevail....and help me be less dependent....

Unfortunately my fears of people and the world might keep me stuck in more dependency....

BUT my constant desire to keep getting up and starting again will ultimately result in my being where I want to be someday....in an interdependent situation in a job, for example...that's why I picked health care....where I'm ALWAYS working "interdependently"....i.e. with other health care team members....

OR interdependently giving service to others in OTHER ways....

OR interdependently in a marraige with a mate....

I guess the goal is interdependence....I do what I do well and you do what you do well..and we all win...:)

Incidentally, codependence is PAINFUL to say the least...Focussing on other people's "stuff" after a while is boring, tedious, monotnous and well, plain energy destroying....

Personally, (opinion follows!) i think independence is highly overrated.

we start dependent.
In adolescence we strive for unrealistic independence.
In adult hood we operate in obvious interdependence (houseing, groceries, manufactured goods.)
Co-dependence is a leach on resources and resourcefullness and individuality and ....

So my question to you would be, what specific thing would someone else say is "co-dependent" that in you is actually "intedependent?"

Or, because of what you can do, what would others consider as "interdependence" that you see differently?

Examples? : )

Oh man David....rack my brain, why don't you?:)....I haven't thought THIS hard since I was in school:D

Well one example that comes to mind...people think is codependent, I think is interdependent...

My dad still helps me financially.....People thinks he is "rescuing" me financially which of course is a form of codependency...

This may be interdependence simply because he enjoys helping....so we both benefit....I mean he knows it is not forever...it's JUST until I get a job...and he and my mom are NOT hurting becuase of it....

And again, it occurs to me that if I do something for someone that they CAN do for theirself...that may not be codependency IF I get benefit too....some benefit....

Listen, hang on David....I will think of others....and come back to this thread....

You bring to mind a flood of considerations:

reciprocity,
need,
term,
voluntary

doing more for another than they do for themselves

doing for another at greater cost to self than benefit to another

taking responsibility for another's responsibility

fear as a motivator, fear of consequence

manipulation vs. covenant or contract


sputter.... pop, crash.

oops. I broke myself. :)

My response to this would be "Oh no, I've been totally exposed and found out...how DID you know"????:(

How about fear of consequences of NOT taking responsiblity for another's responsibility??? -- which of course is nothing more than fear as a motivator....and manipulation I guess....

and I guess a "secret" contract....

(a rye grin spreads)

How did I know? this time I took a look at myself... this time it worked?

how about what is interdependence in ourselves as ADHD that woould be co-dependence in normal folk?

I said that backwards.

What is interdependence for nrmal folk that would be co-dependence for us?

Somebody waking us up when we accidentally fall asleep....

Somebody getting us off the computer

Sonebody taking notes for us in class

Somebody helping us clean our house (because we can't organized enough to do it ourselves)

What else???

I also edited my post you fast reader you, so i asked the opposite question too!

(thanks for posting!)

David: WHAT opposite question? (she said confused)

BORG: "Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated."

Me: "That's a cool laser on your head, what wavelegnth is it? Did you say something? Isn't it kind of inefficient to leave that thing on all the time?"

Joan,

The opposite is, what can we do for ourselves that others expect to be helped with themselves, and to help us with...

What do people turn to you for that they really can't do for themselves? But you can do, even for yourself?

And inattentive type:

{remember the Borg who link VOLUNTARILY. They are a different force.

During the Last Grand Master chess player vs. Machine, a game was conceeded by the human, and none of the other EXPERT level players in the room saw any options. Due to the game being live on the INTERNET, someone watching recognized a 20 move set of "forced" moves that would have made it a draw instead AND in less than 24 hours, the world new, as well as the experts, that an "amature" had solved that problem better, and what the solution was.

THAT is the power of the internet and of the voluntary Borg!}

Originally posted by Wheel1975
Joan,

The opposite is, what can we do for ourselves that others expect to be helped with themselves, and to help us with...

What do people turn to you for that they really can't do for themselves? But you can do, even for yourself?


AHHHH, now I see...........

Well navigate the Forums, for one:D

And me, well I can design menus VERY well....MOST people cannot....

And design an exercise regimen definitely and help them carry it out....I can carry out my own exercise plan but most people can't...

More later......Good question.....