Sorry, this is really long... :faint:

Okay, I'm getting assessed for ADHD (finally!), after a several-month wait. I went for my first session with my assessor today. Generally speaking, she was nice and easy to talk to. However, we had a couple of sticking points.
She didn't ask me about my most relevant symptoms first. Instead, she went at it a little sideways, and talked about other common problems associated with ADD. We established, I think, that I have no troubles with math, reading or spelling. Great, right?

Then she asked me if I have trouble getting my thoughts down on paper. I gave an unqualified "no," since I believe that whatever troubles I have with that are minor. Sometimes I ramble a little when I write (but who doesn't?), and (being perfectionistic) I often re-read what I've written every few sentences or so to make sure I'm still on track. But I feel like written English is more my "first language" than spoken English is.

I told her my greatest gifts are in my writing skills. (I'm a journalism student, by the way.) It was practically inevitable that my chosen career end up revolving around writing, because I was not made to do much else.

Still fine.

We got farther down the list to "organization." (Not sure why trouble with that is considered an extra "side" problem, but whatever.) Boy howdy, do I have trouble with that! If it wasn't near-failing grades that I was in her office for, it would be that. I think I am more disorganized than all my other disorganized friends combined.

She asked me why I have trouble organizing myself, and I tried to explain some of my problems:


-I'm "clutter blind." Don't know what board I found that on - I think it was this one - but that's a perfect description. I don't even SEE mess.

-I have immense difficulty throwing things out. I can't decide if something's unimportant or worthless.

-I can't sort things. I seem to have a lot of trouble deciding what "groups" to put things in. I'll start out with a pile for "magazines" when I'm cleaning, and will end up with a pile that consists of magazines, books, piles of loose paper with writing on them, piles of paper that are blank, file folders, a sock and a pair of scissors. Waddaya mean, they aren't related?

-Besides trouble organizing space, I don't do well with things like to-do lists. I used to cry over them as a kid, because I couldn't order my to-do lists, or even remember all the things I had to-do. I don't cry over them anymore, but I've also given up trying to prioritize anything on the list - I just write down whatever comes to mind.

-I try never to take a thing out of my school bag. I carry my life around with me. I've actually not done my homework (when I was younger) JUST because I was sure that I would forget it when I went to pack my bag in the morning, so I didn't see the point.

-Not getting everything at once - I waste time many mornings running back and forth between my bedroom and the bathroom. The bathroom down the hall has a mirror...my bedroom doesn't. So I dress in the bathroom, but too often I end up in the bathroom with only my pants, and no shirt or socks...that kind of thing. I have to go back and forth for each article of clothing.


...And the list goes on. And on.

So. I tried to get into this somewhat, because this is a major area of concern. She cut me off, and announced, "You don't have sequencing problems. So that's really not an issue." Er, pardonez-moi?
Her explanation: writing requires sequencing. Since I have no trouble writing, I have no trouble sequencing. Organization = sequencing. Therefore, ALL my organization problems are due to just not paying attention to where I put things down. I CAN sequence, I just DON'T.

(Is it just me, or did she just call me lazy?)

Does this seem right to other people? If I can "sequence" in one area, does that automatically mean I can "sequence" in all other areas of my life?

I don't think I really understand the jargon, but I understand "sequencing" to mean getting things in the right order, and I'm not sure I'm actually that hot at that. I mix words up when I talk, and write/type letters and numbers in the wrong order constantly, especially if I have to pick up speed a little bit - it makes my notes from interviews an absolute disaster. When my teacher gave our class an assignment where we had to look at a long string of info given to us by a police officer about a "robbery" and the re-arrange the info into the right order and write a story on it...I didn't even START. I didn't see the point, because it was due for the end of class, and there's no way in hell I could have managed it.

If I had to guess, I'd say my "sequencing" is a tad weak in some areas. A lot of the time, it feels like things just...SNARL in my head on the verge of coming out. Anyone know that feeling?

She also thinks I have no memory problems, except where I'm not "attending." That feels wrong, too. It's like she's trying to distill ALL my problems down into "not attending." So...no problems with organization, no problems with memory, everything's just an attention problem.


I'm not a doctor, so I really don't know. Does her approach seem "right" or off-base? I just think she's taking something that's very complicated (ADHD) and trying to make it something simple.

So. I tried to get into this somewhat, because this is a major area of concern. She cut me off, and announced, "You don't have sequencing problems. So that's really not an issue." Er, pardonez-moi?
Her explanation: writing requires sequencing. Since I have no trouble writing, I have no trouble sequencing. Organization = sequencing. Therefore, ALL my organization problems are due to just not paying attention to where I put things down. I CAN sequence, I just DON'T.

(Is it just me, or did she just call me lazy?)

Does this seem right to other people? If I can "sequence" in one area, does that automatically mean I can "sequence" in all other areas of my life?


It could possibly depend on interest. It could also depend on efficiency. Sometimes, you may not even be putting a heavy load on your "sequential processor", as you may be following some sort of a "template" in doing something (evading the thought process).

If you can't sequence efficiently, then your default mode may be nonsequential and you may only be able to sequence when you have the time to spend. When you're writing something, you don't write down every single thought that appears in your mind. When your doing something routine (like getting ready for the day in the morning), you may be more apt to switching tasks at random (whatever pops into your mind). The sequence you are following is the sequence of reminder (you may see something that reminds you of your next step, even if what you see has nothing to do with what you need to do. This is how the ADD brain often operates (well, at least to some of us)).

maybe you don't have adhd, or maybe you should get a second opinion. if you don't feel what she is saying is right, go somewhere else. Or maybe she's right and you should stop looking for things that are wrong with you. i mean what symptoms of add do you or others feel you have. ask your friends, write down all the symptoms of adhd on a piece of paper and ask your friends if you have any but don't tel them what the list is. it is very difficult when we feel we have something different but don't know what to call it so we look for things that it may be. and maybe if you have trouble throwing things out you may have OCD. If you do, the best time to get rid of things you don't want or need is when you are angry. i was obsessive over things i didn't need like wardrobes full of clothes, i got angry and threw it all out. but don't quote me on this but aren't OCD and ADD linked maybe you have add maybe not. now i am ranting on a bit here, i use to want to be a journalist, i loved writing but i found that i couldn't really write much about anything. and it wasn't for me wri... lost track i prefer other creative stuff, many adders are creative. i love photography, art, the theatre, skateboarding, i am studying film production at Uni best course in the world, and we have no exams. i ahte exams in college, i would get so bored i would sit there and tap my leg, and then walk out half way through when you were allowed to. i never finished it. so hard concentrating whilst being in a chair with a table i have better concentration when i am wlaking around and listening to music. i can't concentrate when its all quiet because your head starts to try and fill up the silence with random thoughts becuase its too quiet to think and then you can't think because there are just too mny way cooler things in your head to think about. do you ever feel like that. it is a symptom of adhd, before i knew about adhd i thought i was weird and i thought everyone thought the same way as we do. but i guess other people don't, some do some don't i like variety in life. I love life s much, things i love include the........ i am going now bye!!!!!

and if you have add how do you manage to finish writing a story. when i write, its really good at the beginning but then i loose interest or i can't keep up th effort so i finish the story with a really crap ending just to get it done like..

[QUOTE=Fidge]and if you have add how do you manage to finish writing a story. QUOTE]

Well, one might say 'if you have add how do you manage to finish *anything*?

The first time I raised the issue of ADD with my psychiatrist, she asked me a number of basic questions, how I did in school, and other general questions. Then asked what I do with my free time. I spoke (with some feeling) about my jewelry work. See, I've spent much of my life jumping from one skill/creative project to the next, but I've finally found something I've locked into like glue and have been doing it for over a year with enough energy that I'm building a business around it. After I told her this with some enthusiasm, she stopped me and said "I don't think you have ADD. You see, ADD is about problems with being able to FOCUS. It sounds like you can focus on your jewelry just fine."

I guess my point is, we all have different brains and different things that are easy/stimulating vs. difficult/challenging. I write with wonderful ease and fluidity when I'm just ranting my thoughts. When I have to write an academic paper or fiction story it's like pulling teeth and never gets finished (or if it does, only after an allnight stint of caffeine nicotine and self-loating for a deadline (which is a shame, I SO WANT to write stories! And speaking of good stories, BTW, I like your name, Bean, OS Card is one of the best out there!)

Anyway, Bean, whether ADD or not or something other, don't let a quick answer deter you from deeper questions, make sure your questions are addressed, and if not get a second opinion. My gut feeling is there are many different types of 'sequencing', and different factors involved. But that's just me :)

Bean, you sure sound a lot like me. As my therapist is always telling me ADHD doesn't look exactly the same for everyone. If we're interested in something we can not only focus, we can hyperfocus and tune everything else in the world out. If you looked at my scores in math (35 %tile) and compared them to my scores in my field of education (95 %tile), you'd draw two very different conclusions about me. I graduated at the top of my class in my master's program, but I still count on my fingers and struggle to remember and reverse four numbers. It is very possible in fact probable to have areas of interest with ADHD in which you do well and areas you can't hold on to for anything. Hallowell and Ratey (Driven to Distraction) state that inconsistency is the hallmark of ADD.

It does sound like your therapist is picking up on the attentional issues (you probably have more of those than you realize -- I sure did). I don't know if you're ADD or not, but doing well in one area doesn't rule it out. A lot of therapist are still learning about what adult ADD looks like. Educate yourself as much as you can about it -- Thomas Brown's book Attention Deficit Disorder -- The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults is really good and discusses how brighter ADDers are frequently missed and the whole topic of focus.

Barkley quotes another ADD psychologist that said that an ADHD kids does well twice and we hold it against him for the rest of his life. The real issue isn't attention or sequencing anyway -- the real issue is behavioral inhibition according to Barkley unless you're inattentive ADD and then the issue really is attention. Okay this post is confusing enough -- I'll quite while I'm behind.:)

Scattered

Did she do any tests to actually determine if you have sequencing problems or just ask? When I was assessed I was asked if I have trouble remembering what I read. I said no unless I'm not paying attention. Then later I did a test where I had to read some short stories and then answer questions about them. Even though I thought I would have no problems with it, I had to look back through the story to answer almost every question. I guess my point is that we don't always recognize our own difficulties. Anyways, I think I have ADD (still have a couple more weeks to wait for the results) but I can write well.

i can write well, don't get me wrong but its frustrating when it doesn't read like it does in your head

So sorry to bump this y'all, but I finally got back to it.

i can write well, don't get me wrong but its frustrating when it doesn't read like it does in your head
AMEN Fidge!

To answer your question first: I'm actually in danger of failing school right now because I DON'T finish stories! Last semester I did some right at the end, just enough to pass. I was panicking that I would fail because I had less than 50% of the course work done, and I handed some stories in late and my teachers were nice.

I would consider myself a writer, but I've never ever finished a fictional story I started for myself. I've started hundreds in my life, but the only two I finished were for school. Can't be much of a writer if you don't finish writing projects...


I coudn't read your other post earlier, my brain was too all over the place, ha...I went through it more carefully just now, though, and I really like how you describe this:

i can't concentrate when its all quiet because your head starts to try and fill up the silence with random thoughts becuase its too quiet to think and then you can't think because there are just too mny way cooler things in your head to think about.
I hate when it's quiet, but sometimes I have problems with music too, like I try to think "over" the music, but it's too loud, so I turn the music off, but then I'm too bored with no music, so I turn it on, repeat, repeat, repeat...

I'm the opposite about exams, I find them...maybe not exciting. Something! Adrenaline rush. I sometimes don't understand stuff at all until I'm being tested on it, and then I can think so much better.

Doctor is 80% sure I have ADHD - we have like one more session to go just to make sure. She thinks I'm sorta anxious and OCD-like, but we don't think I actually have OCD or an anxiety disoder, just traits.

Scattered:

I count on my fingers too, and I'm pretty good at math. No shame there, I say. My mental math is terrible because of my memory, but I'm not stupid. (Do you have dyscalculia? Have you been tested? Just a thought.)

I love Brown's new book! I went out and snatched it up from my bookstore (ADHD-related books sell well here...hmmm), and I've recommended to people, I think it's great.

Did she do any tests to actually determine if you have sequencing problems or just ask?
She asked me if I have trouble writing things down.

Also, she asked me if I have trouble getting my thoughts out when I'm speaking. I said yes, and tried to explain that I can get words completely in the wrong order - i.e. if the sentence I'm trying to say is, "I went to the store today," I might say, "I store went to today."

She cut me off though, and said she's sure the problem is that I think faster than I speak.

I suppose that could be the issue, although I guess the REAL reason I was upset she said I have no sequencing problems was that when I found out ADDers can have trouble with "verbal dyslexia" or writing letters in the right order, I was so happy because that was something that has been really, really bothering me for years - having no answer, because I'm not actually dyslexic, I wondered why I write as if I am sometimes, or why I "sound stupid" sometimes, in a way that no one else seems to.

She said that because my scores on the LD assessment screener I was given earlier are so low, she sees no point in psychoeducational testing. Which is great, because I don't want to waste time testing for something I know I don't have (an LD), but I know I would have had my IQ tested, and I would have had to be tested on my sequencing abilities...so I guess I'll never know what my results would have been.

Bean,
Your first post really hit home for me, for a number of reasons. #1 I have always been able to write, in fact, in high school, the only class I was ever able to do well in was sophomore English. Now I realize, my teacher probably had ADD, she knew how to motivate me like no one else and she got me to show her my work. I got A's on every single thing I wrote and it was at that time I decided to be a journalist (I had written privately for years and loved it). Unfortunately, probably due to the battered self esteem issues that us ADD'ers have, I lacked the confidence to share any writing with anyone ever again and that was it. It's a dream I gave up that breaks my heart to this day.

Anyway, enough on that tangent........in other respects you do sound alot like me, #2 I can sequence when writing, BECAUSE I can go back and catch up to where I was, it's right in front of me, but I CANNOT sequence in any other fashion, i.e. in my head nothing gets saved, like tasks at my previous job, I could not figure out the most logical way to go about a project, I would always start with the step that interested me the most (maybe I would have done better if I had written out exactly how I would go about said project). Now it is evident, when planning to leave the house with my two children I can't figure out the most efficient way to get us out the door .........it takes me longer to figure out how to delegate, so I just do it all myself and wind up scrambling and having to run back in the house several times. I don't believe for two seconds that because you can sequence when writing then you do not have sequencing issues. I faked it through 9 years of a career because of my writing skills (I wrote court documents, not exactly "journalism") and the only reason my former employers ever thought I was capable was because of my writing skills. Did I finish without being hassled, NO! but I could write.

I have a terrible time speaking, I sound dimwitted and confused, yet I know my thoughts are extremely intelligent (because of my writing). It's beyond frustrating. I really feel like I relate to you on many levels. I think way faster than I can speak BUT I do have a theory that I cannot speak logically due to sequencing issues and sociial anxiety combined, it's complicated but I do believe that it all relates. By the way, I do believe that your IQ test would reflect that you are of genius intelligence. The fact that you are on a whole completely "disorganized" and a "mess" yet you can assimilate thoughts in enough sequence to actually be a writer??? My therapist would say, "HELLO GENIUS"......................I personally am curious about your history??? Were you always such a deep thinker?? Were you hyper ?? Were you a miserable teen????
Anxiety has been a part of my life for years and years, until I figured out that I was anxious about the fact that no one could ever figure out what was wrong with me!! (including myself).

Bean, find another doctor, you are not, nor will you ever be, comfortable until you find someone to talk to that understands you. Unlike other people who have responded to your post, I do believe you have ADD, partly because of the fact that you exhibit may of my same traits and I was formally diagnosed. I am curious to see what becomes of your diagnosis. Yet if you think your PDoc makes a true mistake, then move on and keep working.

I have seen evidence of the future in an ADD mind, boy is it a moral place to learn confidence and speach techniques.
Good Luck Bean
Sorry Half Asleep