;) (to moderator's: can you please add this post to other treads please... Thanks in advance) :rolleyes:

I am trying to get off all my medications. I would like to know of any cleansing methods there are (those that are proven safe and effective) to help my body rid of the toxins from the medications.
:soapbox:
Med history:
Just Quitting Zoloft 50mg
Took Risperdal (risperidone) only once
Stopped Clonodine (Catapres) about 2 months ago
Took Ritalin LA 10mg for a month then had to stop it
Just stopped strattera (doc's advice)
:soapbox:
Please help. Thanks in advance for the post(s). :soapbox:

Ok, first off, you should not stop taking these medications without discussing them with your doctor. Some of them may be unsafe to simply quit, you may need to taper off the dosage over a period of several days.

Secondly, I don't understand what you mean by "getting rid of the toxins." Presumably you have a liver and a pair of kidneys, just like the vase majority of human beings. Those organs filter toxins out of your blood, and there are other enzymes, such as monoamine oxidase, that can break down chemicals in your brain. Hell, do you think that the blood in your arteries and veins is the same blood that was there two days ago? Your body is continually breaking down and rebuilding itself.

If you want to help rid your body of toxins faster, then drink plenty of fluids and maybe take a multivitamin that contains antioxidants, and get some exercise, but your body will get rid of any toxins pretty well on its own. What do you think you're doing when you use the toilet?

I allways make sure I get a doc's permission first when getting off medication. It's just that I've been switching medications sooo.. fast I wanted to know how I could help the body clear of the "toxens" found in the medicines.

Ok, first off, you should not stop taking these medications without discussing them with your doctor. Some of them may be unsafe to simply quit, you may need to taper off the dosage over a period of several days.

Secondly, I don't understand what you mean by "getting rid of the toxins." Presumably you have a liver and a pair of kidneys, just like the vase majority of human beings. Those organs filter toxins out of your blood, and there are other enzymes, such as monoamine oxidase, that can break down chemicals in your brain. Hell, do you think that the blood in your arteries and veins is the same blood that was there two days ago? Your body is continually breaking down and rebuilding itself.

If you want to help rid your body of toxins faster, then drink plenty of fluids and maybe take a multivitamin that contains antioxidants, and get some exercise, but your body will get rid of any toxins pretty well on its own. What do you think you're doing when you use the toilet?

;) (to moderator's: can you please add this post to other treads please... Thanks in advance) :rolleyes:

I am trying to get off all my medications. I would like to know of any cleansing methods there are (those that are proven safe and effective) to help my body rid of the toxins from the medications.
:soapbox:
Med history:
Just Quitting Zoloft 50mg
Took Risperdal (risperidone) only once
Stopped Clonodine (Catapres) about 2 months ago
Took Ritalin LA 10mg for a month then had to stop it
Just stopped strattera (doc's advice)
:soapbox:
Please help. Thanks in advance for the post(s). :soapbox:


There's a homeopathic method that is supposedly really great. I just started it myself. It's called "oil sucking". You swish any kind vegitable oil (olive oil, sunflower oil, etc) gently in your mouth for about 15 minutes, up to three times daily. Spit it out and then brush your teeth. It takes several days up to a year to detox your body. There's an article on it...If you want the link, PM me and I will send it to you.

Cyndi

....I don't understand what you mean by "getting rid of the toxins." Presumably you have a liver and a pair of kidneys, just like the vase majority of human beings.

There are some substances that stay in the body, like metals. I can't imagine any possible way in which swishing corn oil will draw them out of your bones or your fat.

There are some substances that stay in the body, like metals. I can't imagine any possible way in which swishing corn oil will draw them out of your bones or your fat.

I know that it makes more bile, speeds up metabolism somewhat, kind of kick starts liver/kidneys and such. I'd be happy to post the link here. Am I allowed to post it on this thread or would I have to PM it to whomever may be interested?

Cyndi

Re the poll, what about Abilify for bipolar II?

do this daily for about 30 to 60 days ......... 500 MG of niacin and an hour + in the sauna ( 4 X 15 minutes stays in sauna )

I use an oral aloe vera concentrate. It has many detox herbs in the formula. I take a "shot" in the morning with a full glass of water before I eat or drink anything. Within 15 minutes I know it is working. It stimulates the kidneys and liver and helps flush them. I take Strattera and was concerned about my liver...hence the aloe vera.

Re the poll, what about Abilify for bipolar II?
At the time I did the post, I never heard of Abilify. I've done some research at their web site: www.abilify.com (http://www.abilify.com) and learned that it's mainly used for schizophrenia and Bipolar I disorder. :cool: :)

See. We all learn something new everyday.

Toxins? What? Medications don't produce "toxins", they're metabolized into other active analogues of the drug and deanimates which are excreted. All are eliminated relatively quickly as per the plasma half-life.

Why don't you talk to your doctor before believing in pseudoscience?

There's a homeopathic method that is supposedly really great. I just started it myself. It's called "oil sucking". You swish any kind vegitable oil (olive oil, sunflower oil, etc) gently in your mouth for about 15 minutes, up to three times daily. Spit it out and then brush your teeth. It takes several days up to a year to detox your body. There's an article on it...If you want the link, PM me and I will send it to you.

Cyndi
And pray tell, where is the study on PubMed showing efficacy for this?

You can excercise and sweat them out. My doctor told me this. I had elevated liver enzymes twice when he tested my liver. SInce I started walking i sweat alot. I havent had any problems since. The doctor said the sweating cleans alot of toxins out.

Oh god, not this...

Im sorry, but there are no toxins you will build up by taking those medications. Unless you were, for some reason, ingesting some heavy metals with your daily pills.

Sweating toxins out is L. Hubbard's topic in his book, that is now followed by the scientology cult. If you have ANY common sence you will understand how his ideas are faulty.

Edit: Maybe I should be more clear in my post that SOME things MIGHT be able to be cleared out by his method, but of cource, these would be nothing you were taking. And I have yet to see any creditable evidence that it would work period.

I did not mean to sound like a scientologist wich I am not but the sweating part really works. My doctor said this has been scientifically proven. I have also ask many other health professionals and they said the same thing. It not a miracle cure bur it sure does help. Sweating takes a big load of the liver and kidneys.

I did not mean to sound like a scientologist wich I am not but the sweating part really works. My doctor said this has been scientifically proven. I have also ask many other health professionals and they said the same thing. It not a miracle cure bur it sure does help. Sweating takes a big load of the liver and kidneys.
There is no such thing as scientific "proof". Science, by definition, doesn't/can't prove.

Ok I kow I probably sound like an idiot but it did work for me and my doctor said that it helps alot to sweat.Sorry for saying it was scientificacally proven.

Just browsing and I came across this site. There a few things I'd like to hit on here.

1. I don't like L. Ron Hubbard or his pseudo-religion but the body DOES store toxins in bone, adipose(fat) tissue, liver, etc. and it is often not excreted through urine. That includes stuff like amphetamines (1.) (3.)

2. He didn't invent the cleansing sauna, he merely made it popular AKA he took credit for what others had innovated.

3. Taking niacin and having a sauna isn't pseudo-science, it's common sense. Niacin (vitamin B-3) causes a 'flushing' effect which is actually small blood vessels opening up. (2.) Couple that with the fact that a sauna also opens blood vessels, improves circulation and throw in how your body tries to cool itself (sweating) and voila, your body can now begin to get rid of some toxins that have no business being there. Exercise can do something similar to help rid the body of toxins mainly through sweating. It's prolly not gonna rid them all but I don't think it will hurt unless you dehydrate too badly.

4. Skin is often refered to as a third kidney, because of it's ability to transport toxins out of the body--->this site kinda simplifies the general point I am trying to make---> http://tuberose.com/Sweating.html

I realize that averity isn't taking amphetamine, but I think it's a good example of a commonly used med which is why I used. I also realize that AMP itself isn't often used as a legal med and it and say, DEXTRO are two different substances. Humour me please. I am just trying to make a point that while most stuff is excreted, some stay's behind in the body.

Davin, I respectifully disagree with you. The body absolutely stores all kind of stuff and flushing them out is not a bad idea.

Frangable, you're wrong. Normally I'd be nicer but you seem to have a big mouth. Why don't you do a search before posting BS.

Barbyma, No such thing as scientific proof? Is that some kind of joke or BS semantic?

One last thing. I actually learned a lot of this because I was in an alcohol/drug treatment centre for 3 weeks (too much booze). A lot of what we learned boiled down to physiology and how what we were taking affected our bodies. Granted abusing a substance and using a prescription drug are different, I did learn that we do store many of these substances in our bodies (minute amounts) that can cause problems in the future.

We had one PHD dude who gave an excellent presentation on how we don't exactly know what the long term effects are of having some of this stuff (prescription meds) in our systems. I used AMP as an example because it has been studied for years and is relatively safe IF USED properly but what about this other stuff. we simply have no idea. Flushing it outta your system at the bare minimum wont hurt.

I'm not a fancy science guy so please excuse my attempt at references.


(1.) Vree T. Excretion of amphetamines in human sweat. Arch Int Phamacodyn. 199:311-317, 1972

(2.) Mediates nicotinic acid–induced flushing.

Benyó Z, Gille A, Kero J, Csiky M, Suchánková MC, Nüsing RM, Moers A, Pfeffer K, Offermanns S.

J Clin Invest. 2005 Dec 1; 115(12): 3634-3640.

(3.) J. A. Levisky, D. L. Bowerman, W. W. Jenkins and S. B. Karch (2000). "Drug deposition in adipose tissue and skin: evidence for an alternative source of positive sweat patch tests." Forensic Science International. 110(1): 35-46.

Any way you could post the article you sourced in (1.) I'm having a hard time finding any documentation of it that isnt a source page itself and it sounds like a interesting read.

Couple that with the fact that a sauna also opens blood vessels, improves circulation and throw in how your body tries to cool itself (sweating) and voila, your body can now begin to get rid of some toxins that have no business being there. Exercise can do something similar to help rid the body of toxins mainly through sweating.
Can any of you define what you mean by toxins? It's been a while (20+ years) since high school, but that's where I learned that the only toxins that remain in our bodies are metals like mercury and such. (which is why many are so concerned with ingesting them in the first place) If someone has found a way to remove these toxins in the past 2 decades, why hasn't it been all over the news so we can all do this?

Am I misinterpreting your meaning of the word?


Davin, I respectifully disagree with you. The body absolutely stores all kind of stuff and flushing them out is not a bad idea.
Like what? This is not my area of expertise, but I've seen a LOT of pseudoscience on it. I'll look up your references (can't seem to get access to #1 either), but I'd really like to know what you think is being stored that can be "flushed out".


Frangable, you're wrong. Normally I'd be nicer but you seem to have a big mouth. Why don't you do a search before posting BS.
Frangable may not have been polite, but I'm not sure he's wrong. I've never heard of any medications producing toxins. I'd like to find out if this is true.


Barbyma, No such thing as scientific proof? Is that some kind of joke or BS semantic?
No joke. You're certainly entitled to your opinion about the "BS semantics" part, but as a scientist I take this very seriously. I teach research methods and using the word "prove" is an abolute "no-no" in my classroom.


drug are different, I did learn that we do store many of these substances in our bodies (minute amounts) that can cause problems in the future.
Most certainly true. There is a lot of evidence to support that LSD, for example, remains stored in spinal fluid. But LSD is not a toxin. It's a dangerous drug, yes, but a not a toxin by the meaning I know.


I'm not a fancy science guy so please excuse my attempt at references.

Can't tell. Your references are EXCELLENT and appreciated!

(I just wish I could find #1! -- but that's certainly not your fault)

(2.) Mediates nicotinic acid–induced flushing.

Benyó Z, Gille A, Kero J, Csiky M, Suchánková MC, Nüsing RM, Moers A, Pfeffer K, Offermanns S.

J Clin Invest. 2005 Dec 1; 115(12): 3634-3640.
This study isn't about flushing things from your system. It's about a side-effect of using a particular drug to treat lipid disorders. Here's a quote from the intro that explains "flushing":

"The major unwanted effect of nicotinic acid when given at pharmacologically active doses is flushing. Although harmless, this side effect limits patient compliance. Nicotinic acid–induced flushing can be observed even at relatively low doses (50–100 mg per os) and consists of a cutaneous vasodilation accompanied by a burning sensation mainly affecting the upper body and face."

I fail to see how this article supports the idea that "flushing" is "cleansing" in any way.


(3.) J. A. Levisky, D. L. Bowerman, W. W. Jenkins and S. B. Karch (2000). "Drug deposition in adipose tissue and skin: evidence for an alternative source of positive sweat patch tests." Forensic Science International. 110(1): 35-46.

Interesting article. Purpose of the article was to show how positive drug results from skin patches could be coming from things other than sweat. It strongly supports the argument that drugs remain in the body (in this case for as long as 28 days), but it doesn't talk about toxins.

It also strongly suggests that "sweating it out" will NOT get rid of all the drugs in the system.

Again, I'm rather confused about this "toxin" business. I mean, I understand the word "intoxicated" comes from it, but that word implies poisoning. Alcohol is indeed converted to a poison. I don't think that prescribed versions of ADHD drugs are.

I'd rather not have to wade through the metabolic process of the drugs themselves to find out for sure, so if anyone is familiar with it, please tell me if I'm wrong.

Most certainly true. There is a lot of evidence to support that LSD, for example, remains stored in spinal fluid. But LSD is not a toxin. It's a dangerous drug, yes, but a not a toxin by the meaning I know.

[/size]Sorry, your trying to make a point, but this example is FAR overused and is totaly false. It was first talked about in relation to "flashbacks" but there is no medical evidence at all relating to this. LSD is HIGHLY water soluble, and thus, is excreted within hours. Flashbacks are physiological.


And in answer to your question, I know of very few drugs that would cause substances to be stored in the body, and no stimulants for sure. When I ran over Hubbard's book, he also mentioned the myth of LSD, and claimed it as one of his "proof-that-it-works" statments. I hold any research made by him highly questionable.

"Toxins" as someone with a scientific background would see it, are very diffrent from what mass media has hyped in the past few years.

No joke. You're certainly entitled to your opinion about the "BS semantics" part, but as a scientist I take this very seriously. I teach research methods and using the word "prove" is an abolute "no-no" in my classroom.

Haha, where do you teach? I almost got killed by one of my first prof. at Rice for being in the habit of using the word "prove."

Sorry, your trying to make a point, but this example is FAR overused and is totaly false. It was first talked about in relation to "flashbacks" but there is no medical evidence at all relating to this. LSD is HIGHLY water soluble, and thus, is excreted within hours. Flashbacks are physiological.
I checked some other sources and confirmed this. It's a little disturbing because this myth has actually made it into some psychology textbooks. Thanks for the heads-up.


When I ran over Hubbard's book, he also mentioned the myth of LSD, and claimed it as one of his "proof-that-it-works" statments. I hold any research made by him highly questionable.
DITTO - A big, fat one.


"Toxins" as someone with a scientific background would see it, are very diffrent from what mass media has hyped in the past few years.
So, you think the argument going on here is primarily one of definition? or is it that the definition has been twisted to invoke fear? (I'd probably bet on the latter)


Haha, where do you teach? I almost got killed by one of my first prof. at Rice for being in the habit of using the word "prove."
Not at Rice, sorry! My students sometimes catch me using it. I like that because it shows they're paying attention and GETTING IT!:)

So, you think the argument going on here is primarily one of definition? or is it that the definition has been twisted to invoke fear? (I'd probably bet on the latter)
I just think its a plain twisting of facts. I see these claims of such and such being cleaned out through sweating, but I have yet to see any reports of substances (besides the heavy metals mentioned) that actualy stay in the body for any amount of time. Thats because, it just doesn't happen. I guess the claims of it in this day and age comes from the increasing public concern with fitness. If any of the mentioned medications did remain in the body, we would have some very serious problems at hand.

I belive people feel better after following hubbard's plan, and others of the same type, because of 1.) Pure physiological reasons 2.) Because his plan, and many of the same type, also premote exercise and healthy eating.

Oh god, not this...

Im sorry, but there are no toxins you will build up by taking those medications. Unless you were, for some reason, ingesting some heavy metals with your daily pills.

Sweating toxins out is L. Hubbard's topic in his book, that is now followed by the scientology cult. If you have ANY common sence you will understand how his ideas are faulty.

Edit: Maybe I should be more clear in my post that SOME things MIGHT be able to be cleared out by his method, but of cource, these would be nothing you were taking. And I have yet to see any creditable evidence that it would work period.

A lot of meds may have metallic properties. Anything with 'sodium' tagged on the end; and lithium is an alkaloid, right? Do toxins have to be heavy metals? Or can they be anything that produce ill-effects on the body? I wouldn't base common sense on what we know about toxins, how we excrete them, or anything else in that venue....that would be more along the academic line, wouldn't you say? Not like this stuff is written in the pamphlet of information given with the drug. From what I understand, drugs form deposits in fat cells and brain tissue mostly...the rest gets urinated out (sometimes they can make problems like kidney stone or gallstones worse). I couldn't tell you how to get rid of deposits in the brain. I'm guessing if you lose weight, you'll lessen the amount of the drugs in your fat--but that's debatable. Fat cells get big when you gain weight and smaller when you lose weight, so it's not a matter of losing fat cells...you're just losing mass of the fat cells. I hope that makes sense.

Cyndi

A lot of meds may have metallic properties. Anything with 'sodium' tagged on the end; and lithium is an alkaloid, right? Do toxins have to be heavy metals? Or can they be anything that produce ill-effects on the body? ..... From what I understand, drugs form deposits in fat cells and brain tissue mostly...the rest gets urinated out...
The dictionary definition of toxin is something organic in nature, like a protein, that can cause disease. The definition I've always understood is a poison (can cause disease or distroy tissue) that is not dissolved & released by the body.

Sodium and lithium are not toxin because they don't cause harm in theraputic doses.

Drugs do form deposits in skin and fat cells, but that, too, is dissolved and released through various means over time. There's no evidence, that I know of, that Adderall, Ritalin, etc. leave anything behind, much less something harmful.

Hopefully, nobody will "prove" me wrong.

The dictionary definition of toxin is something organic in nature, like a protein, that can cause disease. The definition I've always understood is a poison (can cause disease or distroy tissue) that is not dissolved & released by the body.

Sodium and lithium are not toxin because they don't cause harm in theraputic doses.

Drugs do form deposits in skin and fat cells, but that, too, is dissolved and released through various means over time. There's no evidence, that I know of, that Adderall, Ritalin, etc. leave anything behind, much less something harmful.

Hopefully, nobody will "prove" me wrong.

If these medications aren't poisonous, I guess the poison control number shouldn't be on the information pamphlet. It's for overdoses and allergic reactions. Which can occur on a therapeutic dose. Some people are hypersensitive to certain ingredients. No one is going to prove anyone wrong in this post, because it all seems to be an opinion. One person claims they read something here, another refutes and says they read something else from there...none of us have any clinical/pathology experience in the lab and can produce usable/factual information. The fact is, these are all theories and theories can't really be argued until someone proves something. :eyebrow:

Cyndi

No one is going to prove anyone wrong in this post, because it all seems to be an opinion. One person claims they read something here, another refutes and says they read something else from there...none of us have any clinical/pathology experience in the lab and can produce usable/factual information. The fact is, these are all theories and theories can't really be argued until someone proves something. :eyebrow:

Cyndi
First, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what experience people on this forum do and do not have. There are many clinicians, chemists, and research psychologists on this forum (yes, I'm in there somewhere).

Second, there is no such thing as "proof" for anything, which is why there is debate.

Third, I have and am happy to supply references for my arguments, and I'm not alone. Citations from peer-reviewed journals (like those cited by Puppet - thank you, Puppet) can be pretty easily evaluated by anyone who understands scientific methodology.

Fourth, the definition of "theory" is often misunderstood. Theories are not unsupported fantasies.

With regards to Sodium and Lithium:

A: Your body requires sodium to survive. It is an essential part of cellular function, especially in neurons.

B: Lithium is actually used in and of itself as medication for some disorders, although in large doss it can be dangerous. In some areas, there is even a small amount of lithium in the ground water.

In any case, neither Na or Li are heavy metals. Yes, they are both metals, but they are Alkali metals, very light, reactive, non-magnetic metals. These are fundamentally different from what we think of as "normal" transitional metals like iron, gold, etc.

Secondly, with regards to "fat cells." "Fat" is a lipid molecule that the body can break down to release energy by reacting it with oxygen. This is how you "burn" fat, and it's called...get this...aerobic respiration, which is why exercise that burns fat is referred to as aerobic exercise. When you burn off fat, which you do all the time, you actually physically destroy that fat, and release anything which might be dissolved in that fatty oil.

Now finally, with regards to storing toxins in your body, there is almost nothing which will be stored in your body for more than, at most, a month or two, and even that long would be very rare. Almost everything in your body is constantly regenerating, breaking down, growing, dividing, etc. Your red blood cells, for instance, are constantly being broken down and excreted, and in fact it is one of the chemicals from this process that makes urine yellow. Your body does this in various ways, but usually it involves enzymes in the liver and kidneys, and through the use of oxidative enzymes like MAO elsewhere. Now, for elemental chemicals that cannot be broken down, they can still be excreted quite easily. Your cells are constantly shuffling materials in and out through processes that are too complicated to explain here. These chemicals will eventually be excreted from your body. Occasionally, heavy metals will not be excreted, and these usually build up in the liver or kidneys, where they are filtered out of the blood stream. In small amounts, this is not a problem. This is actually what your liver and kidneys are for, you remove toxins from the blood. Since you're only going to live for maybe 70-some years, small amounts won't build up enough to become a problem, but if exposed to large amounts through environmental pollution...far more than anything you might find in medication...it can cause serious problems.

Thank you for the tutorial, Hyperion! Very informative.