If there is such a thing as a textbook case of ADHD...then I guess I belong somewhere in a chapter.

Since childhood I have never been one to stay inside the lines. My coloring books had margins that were full of my own illustrations. Cornflower blue faces, periwinkle grass, and magenta skies.

Impulse and distraction....probably my sharpest thorns.

My mouth, my words. Interrupting.
Clumsiness in all respects...stepping on toes, forcing things.
Crossing boundaries...my own as well as those of others.
Just haven't gotten it together yet.
But I try...no, not giving up.

Sometimes I wonder if ADHD is a tradeoff. I know my value. I hope you know yours too. I mean, how deep can you go?
Way deep.
Deep in love, deep in thought, deep in sensuality, deep in ingenuity, deep in passion.
Yeah...creative thinkers who possess perserverence and huge hearts.

Some say that these traits are not exclusively ADHD which is true...I believe however that they are an ADHD given. I didn't write or illustrate the book, but now I've had the pleasure of watching and talking to many of these gifted people and I know that deep is a common denominator.

Staying in the lines. I see. Maybe not the lines....maybe we should try staying somewhere on the pages?

~gourmet~

Maybe they shouldn't have any lines, ne c'est pas ? I for one say remove all those silly lines, once and foreall, and there won't be any more problems.
If people need the security of those lines..then they should be created on an 'as needed basis'...need a line..take one...have a spare line..leave one...
Otherwise..everyone just do their own thing and live and let live.
You know me, G. (0:
I don't own anything that has 'lines' that I have to stay within the parameters of.
And I don't impose my views on anyone else either.
I just get all bent out of shape when someone tries and imposes that I stay within the lines..and worse..within THEIR lines that really don't exist except in their own coloring books.
I'm not talking of statutes either..I'm talking about judgment and prejudice..
If I'm with you and we're having the best time together, interrupting each other a hundred miles an hour...you can bet that it will offend someone within earshot..somewhere..
And why they would be listening to our conversation in the first place beats the hades out of me..
But that's not what really bothers them..it's more our interrupting..
And our laughter..
We're not staying within the parameters of their lines... (0:
And I say 'Who cares' !
Don't worry so much about what EVERYBODY thinks or does with their 'lines'
Zig zag yours all over or remove them altogether if it makes you smile hugely
Remember the book Harold and The Purple Crayon...
He didn't care if he colored outside the lines and what color anything was (0:
I loved Harold !
Be Harold, G !!!

Nova

Gourmet,

You've raised a really good question, for which I think there's probably no one "right" answer.

My input would be to point out how very few problems today are "stand alone;" in that they occur without comorbidity.

Therefore, the clinical picture is rarely a completely clear one.

Obviously though, that same thing can be said for virtually any disorder really.

It's also no great revelation that degrees of severity exist for all problems.

As a (emperically determined) chronic developmental disorder that occurs across the lifespan, the symptoms of ADHD will also change with age.

There's a lot of information on this, including discussions of the need for age referencing of the symptoms.

In doing that, it also allows for the clinical threshold ( # of symptoms needed to help substantiate the dx) to be lowered.

One of the best descriptors I've seen in the literature (and also presented at workshops),
is " Heterotypic Continuity (Patterson,Forgatch,Yoerger, & Stoolmiller,1998)."

Originally used to reference the changes across behavior problems, simply puy it means:

"Same (underlying traits) different sympoms."

A good example would be the difference in ADHD symptoms between say, a 7 year old and a 16 year old.

They both (still) have ADHD, but their respective stages of development define the expression of the symptoms.

Thank you again for this question.

take care
mctavish23 (Robert)

Lines!!! Lines!!! I got nothing but lines!!!

I hated lines cause I could never stay inside them. Coloring in elementary school was he-ll! It progressed as I grew. Staying inside the lines was tough because of all the neat things that were outside the lines. Driving was even tougher. I used to say, "At least I'm on the asphalt, okay!"

My mouth, my words. Interrupting.
Clumsiness in all respects...stepping on toes, forcing things.
Crossing boundaries...my own as well as those of others. - Gourmet

I can sooo identify with this...

Eric

Like I told you before, G....and McT has recently 'heard' my thoughts on this also...
It's your coloring book of life..everybody has their own also, to stay inside the lines as much as they want to.

As long as you aren't deliberately:
Manipulating, Being Cruel To, or Taking the Life of Another

Then I don't see how coloring outside the 'lines' is going to truly devastate anyone else to the point of non recovery.

Anything beyond the three subjects I mentioned is just being uniquely you, Sis.
Blundering, Interrupting, Toe stepping...
Maybe exasperating to another who chooses not to take the time to view you in the amazing light that shines from within you...one that they might be lacking...as they forget to laugh more and more... (0:

Nova

I stay in the lines when coloring :) but I need to break some rules and laws!

I can't stay in the lines either, but I'm doing better now that I'm 43. I still color because its fun and relaxing. Which is, in and of itself, "coloring outside of the lines"

I never got a handwriting certificate in school either. That makes me mad 30 years later. Punished with lack of recognition simply because I couldn't stay within that little box they wanted me to conform to.

yea F the lines. When I was young, my teachers thought I was mentally slow (and even talked to my parents about it) bc I couldn't draw well...ok I was horrible. Now I'm at one of the best colleges in the nation so I say F the lines... I do what I want

CollegeADHD I like your attitude and your additude.
I accepted the fact as a small child I was always going to be outside the lines.
So, Like you I do what I want also.

Nova your first post got me all teary eyed.
Something in there just really touched me.

Funny you should bring this up -- probably my first memory of first grade was getting an N on a coloring picture. I was devistated and I think in tears. I'm pretty sure going outside the lines was invovled! I had been proud of that picture too.

Beautiful post, Gourmet -- it read and felt like a poem. You might enjoy Mate' book Scattered. He talks a lot about the sensitivity of ADHD kids and adults and the why of our responding not just the genetic mechanics of it.


Scattered

N= Needs Improvement?

Nova, it's funny you should mention Harold. I taught an art class for 3's and 4's and we always warmed up like Harold with a little purple crayon.

One child would only draw roller coasters.

Every day he would spend our warm-up time drawing and making up the funniest stories about his purple roller coasters.

His mother would pick him up at the end of the hour expressing her concern....she was so worried about this kid!
Please get him to draw something besides a roller coaster...
make him use a different color.

What she couldn't understand is that every roller coaster he drew was a ride.

One child would only draw roller coasters.

.....

What she couldn't understand is that every roller coaster he drew was a ride.
OMG!

My little one used to draw what he called "pickle coasters" ALL the time! This was about age 3-4.

I get it now. Thanks so much for explaining the "ride"!

I could color inside the lines as a child fairly well. I just tended to always add my personal touch to the picture. Some characters needed hats, others looked better with blush, some times I drew pictures on the pictures.

I guess this was because drawing, coloring, and puzzles was how mom used to make things like church and me tolerable for all. As long as I was busy I was happy and willing to be quiet(reasonably) , not busy not happy, quiet or reasonible.

Until I read this it never dawned on me that I probably was able to do the coloring stuff in school with out problems was because I had been doing coloring books and crafts for a coupe of years before I ever even went to school!!!!

Funny how an accepting caring parent knew my ADD before an ADD diagnosis was even an option !!!!! Mom could have spanked me and tried to make me be quiet and sit still. She didn't she took time to learn me and came up with some pretty good ideas on how to keep a hyperactive child quiet for an hour with out damaging mental or physical body parts. Strange thing is I still do the same thing. Any time I know I will have to sit still and wait I take a book or an art project to keep me busy and quiet. I once wrote an entire article during a flight delay!!!!!

Nova,
I can deal with their lines as long as I can add some accessories of my own!!!!!!!!!;)

In the interest of good taste and decorum, I shall refrain from any remarks on "pickle coaster drawings." :D

In the interest of good taste and decorum, I shall refrain from any remarks on "pickle coaster drawings." :D
haha thats probably good.

N= Needs Improvement?Yep as opposed to E = excellent or S = satisfactory.

I always felt sorry for people who colored within the lines & only used the prescribed colors - no blue suns or purple hair. it seemed so limited to me. i found great joy in making up things: games, pictures, stories, whatever. i was terrible at following rules or respecting boundaries. the minute there were any limits, i'd be insufferably bored because i couldn't understand why limiting my possibility for joy would be necessary.

it's funny though because i have a brother who is exactly the opposite. we couldn't play together very much because he HAS to have structure. [i call it "anal". he calls it "organized".] he cannot play a game without learning the rules whereas i didn't want to play a game that had rules, let alone learn the rules and play according to the rules!

as far as handwriting goes: Thank God, Microsoft, apple & whoever, for computers. i flunked handwriting & still can't read my own. i'd be screwed in school without my computer.

Sometimes I wonder if my ADD gift of disorganizing and making my messes aren't intentionally done.....a special need or drive....or a compelling urge.

When I have solid structure I feel bound and end up working my way free...if that makes sense.
I feel the need for asymmetry...odd numbers rather than even..and I have no problem with a tilted picture frame on the wall. Music a bit out of tune, a syncopated rhythm.
I feel naked and uncomfortable in a perfectly clean and tidy room.
I admire the pristine but cannot keep it in my life for very long.

I wonder if the lack of balance, the need to move, and the broken lines might be an intrinsic need of those with ADD. Perhaps similar to the developmental need a baby has to rock.


~gourmet~