I just watched a great video put out by PBS Home Video, titled "Last One Picked, First One Picked On, by Richard Lavioe that was great. The comments that he made on the importance of social skills is that all environments are social. Any other issues , like struggles with math, difficulty reading etc.. can be compensated for by tutoring, reading the material to them etc. . . but not social skills. Deficits in social skills will affect their whole life.

Based on these comments, I have some questions that I would like feedback on:

How does your child manage socially?

Have there been social issues that have come up that you had to intentionally teach your child because that didn't pick up on the cues or "catch it" by observing others?

What have you done to help your child succeed socially? What's worked, what hasn't worked?


My 10 year old daughter is struggling with this area - and probably doesn't realize it -. I want to help her develop better social skills.

Thank you, in advance, for you feedback
Bonnie
p.s. I'll write more about my situation later. The kids just got home from school abd I need to catch up with them on their days.

I have the video, and think the world of Lavioe.

For myself, I can't "learn" what I:
1) don't perceive at all.
2) can't anticiapte
3) don't agre with on a basic level.

I'm probably pretty severe.

Absolutely!
I tend to misread positive signals as negative, or just not notice them at all. -- Tom


http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=17491#post17491

I think this is SO much of the problem... getting it definitely WRONG!

>I have the video, and think the world of Lavioe.

Wheel1975,
I agree with you, he has a great perspective, and I have enjoyed and learned a lot from thethat video
I know that there are two other videos. I have watched on titled "How Difficult is this?" which gives great insight about being learning disaabled. The Third one, When the chips are down, which is about discipline, I am sure is just as good. I can't wait to look at it




Absolutely!
I tend to misread positive signals as negative, or just not notice them at all. --

Tom , That is so true in my life. That's is probably why I have tried so hard not to read into things, or check with my DH, or a close friend to get their perspective on it.
I have not been diagnosed with ADD, but I am pretty sure that I am.

My daughter tends to favor "playing with the younger kids at school. She also gets along well with older kid. Its her peers that she doesn't seem to click with.

I have heard that kids with ADD have areas where they operate on 2/3 of their age. Do you find that teu with your child?

In my daughter, she is socailly more interested in the things the younger kids like. She still likes to play, while her peers like to talk, are into hair and lip gloss.
I am happy with who she is right now and want her to enjoy being a girl as long as she can. But how do I encourage her to find ways to connect with her peers?

Bonnie

I am a greatful member of alanon. Getting in other peoples business, even our children's is a gray area to me.

I see my role as to facilitate what they initiate that is good, and to inhibit wht they start that should not suceed!

Have birthday parties, take friends to the mall, one on one or small groups but NEVER three. Three ALWAYS turns into 2 against 1, regardless... four may turn into three and one, but it is rarely "against."

I'd say you are on better ground if you "SUPPORT her to" rather than "encourage her to..."

I'm driving my son to things with "coming home times" after my bed time. i stay up or i get up. It is what i can do to support him in doing appropriate social things. It is not as "direct" an involvement as I migh have imagined, but i see it working for him where my up bringing didn't work for me.

IMHO

Also, i don't know about you, bu tmy 'peers" were a stupid set of goofs! I was acepted in older crowds because i was smart, and younger crowds because i was kind and interesting. My peers wanted to do age appropriate inappropriate things all the time, which didn't go well with me. Don't push her on her peers. Let it happen when it is compfortable. IMHHO

role play role play role play.

My wife was better at that than I was with my kids. Make sure they reole play how to interact with friends, and with the problems that arise wih friends.

Thank you for your comments.

>I see my role as to facilitate what they initiate that is good, and to inhibit what >>they start that should not suceed!

Good point.


Have birthday parties, take friends to the mall, one on one or small groups but NEVER three. Three ALWAYS turns into 2 against 1, regardless... four may turn into three and one, but it is rarely "against."

I was thinking along these lines too.

thanks for the reminder about groups of 3. i had that problem as a young teenager and I ended up to be the odd one out - not fun at all.

I'd say you are on better ground if you "SUPPORT her to" rather than "encourage her to..."

Thanks, I needed to hear that.


bonnie

One thing I found as a youth was that associating with younger children was a much more comfortable social situation... younger children tend to look up to you more... are more accepting of someone 2-3 years older, as the older child is more "cool" and knows more about stuff, is better at sports, dealing with adults, etc. Also, younger children are more likely to still want to play the sorts of games an ADD child wants to play. Younger children are also LESS likely to gang up on / make fun of / physically bully an ADD child.

To date in fact, my friends all range from one to about ten years younger than I am... I have almost no friends who are older.

Although it is not great for an ADD child's reputation if they play constantly with kids from a lower grade. And they may have new interests that are inappropriate for younger kids too.

So true about younger children. it definitely is a much more comfortable situation fo her. Come to think of it, she has two younger sisters that she plays with which probably helps herlean this way

I have a daughter with ADHD, 8 years old and she finds it very difficult socially. She can't understand why the other girls are nice one minute and horrible the next. She tends to then get frustrated and hit them which of course doesn't help one keep friends. I gave her the book, learning to slow down and pay attention which is written at a kids level and she uses some of the strategies now. Also there is a web site where you can buy these things called Parent coach cards (I think the site is called parentcoachcards.com) and you can get a colouring book and some cards to use with your child to help increase their social understanding.

Secondly, I have an autistic son (which is like raising an alien - socially). He has no idea - I have to tell him EVERYTHING and even then he still doesn't understand. He can't understand why you don't stare at people and he has a lot of trouble treating others with respect within the family. I try to teach him by doing the same things that he's doing to us, back to him so he can feel what it's like. This is the most effective thing that i can use on him to try and make him understand.
There is a book called raising your child's social IQ which I want to get but it's hard to get all the resources from Australia.

Thanks for the great information. i am going to look into getting some of these for my daughter.

Frustration is not an easy thing for her to deal with either. She seems to get frustrated very easily these days. She tends to yell and argue, sometimes hit, but not enough to hurt. We (my Husband and I), just recently had her diagnosed - couple of months ago - and haven't talked to her yet about ADD, but will very soon. We have been gathering information so that we can understand more about this and then talk to her about it real soon.

bonnie

p.s. i worked recently with some learning disabled kids and two of them were autistic. i understand some of what you must be going through with your son.

Originally posted by tudorose
Parent coach cards (I think the site is called parentcoachcards.com)

Secondly, I have an autistic son (which is like raising an alien - socially).

I try to teach him by doing the same things that he's doing to us, back to him so he can feel what it's like.

This is the most effective thing that i can use on him to try and make him understand.


You say doing it back is most effective.

Does it really work? Does he gain an understanding? does he retain it?

does it seem to allow him to internalize, or is it simply "adversive" in your estimation?

Thanks.

(That would not work for me, i think.

At the same time, I had a hard time keeping my kids from interupting rough play among puppies... the puppies eventually "hurt each other" and if there is a bully, the bully eventually gets bitten back, which mediates the roughness of the play from there forward.

if there is too much interuption the biters bite harder and harder, and don't get backed off, because of the interuptions.

Kids on the other hand need guidance to deal with civility. i let things go fairly far, but i do step in and redirect eventually.)

Originally posted by Wheel1975


You say doing it back is most effective.

Does it really work? Does he gain an understanding? does he retain it?

does it seem to allow him to internalize, or is it simply "adversive" in your estimation?



I find that doing it back (with an explanation) does work because he learns through his feelings. basically - create enough emotion to make an imprint into his mind.

I'll give you an example. It's not a social issue though.

Matt found a box of matches in the playground at school and brought them home to 'save for later'. He then decided to build a fire in his bedroom (to keep warm) without any thought of the possible consequences if something went wrong. I had to make him realise immediately that this was not on so I made him stand next to me as I lit up an entire box of matches. It scared the living daylights out of him and then he realised that if that had happened to him in his room he would have been in serious trouble.

If i had just told him, the message would not have gotton through and I would have a serious problem on my hands. I made him feel a strong emotion and then I told him that was what I wanted him to remember when he saw matches. Sure he might have a problem to deal with in adulthood but there is more chance of him making it to adulthood.

Originally posted by tudorose


I find that doing it back (with an explanation) does work because he learns through his feelings. basically - create enough emotion to make an imprint into his mind.


If i had just told him, the message would not have gotton through and I would have a serious problem on my hands.

I made him feel a strong emotion and then I told him that was what I wanted him to remember when he saw matches.

Sure he might have a problem to deal with in adulthood but there is more chance of him making it to adulthood.

I see.

I'm actually like that too.

I had a French teacher who scared the daylights out of us every class pushing us relentessly past our limits, but just barely past. Every once in a while we'd have a repreive from French and it would be a "confidentiality' day. We got to discuss things that were going on at school or home, and discuss them politely.

I learned more French in one semester than i learned in 3 prior years.

Hey, with compassion and your eyes open, what ever works. :)

original post by tudorose

I gave her the book, learning to slow down and pay attention which is written at a kids level and she uses some of the strategies now.
________________________________________

I orderd this book for my daughter and I can't wait for it to come in so that I can give it to. It looks great! Thanks for the recommendation

bonnie

I have heard of some kids being inolved with other children that need help with the social area that are specifically geared towards learning and developing social skills.

Have you tried this with your child? Has it helped?
Bonnie

They have this social skills course called Kids Mix but it costs too much and it's too far away.

Kids And Teens With ADHD Have Fewer Friends

By Bob Seay

Children who have AD/HD have fewer friends, are less likely to be accepted by their peers, and are more likely to experience social rejection during their teenage years, regardless of whether or not their symptoms of AD/HD continue.

This rather grim prognosis is the most recent conclusion of scientists researching the affect of AD/HD and socialization. Dr. Catherine L. Bagwell, from the University of Richmond in Virginia, led a team of researchers who interviewed over 100 13- to 18-year olds with AD/HD and their parents and teachers. The researchers compared their findings to interviews with 100 non-AD/HD teens. Youngsters who had been diagnosed with ADHD as children had fewer close friendships and were more often rejected by their peers than those who did not have the disorder, according to interviews with the adults. The study was published in the November, 2001 issue of the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.

Social problems may continue regardless of medication treatment, as the use of medication to treat AD/HD did not appear to influence friendships or whether a teen was rejected by his or her peers.

”Given the...importance of peer group acceptance, friendships, and peer networks for adjustment, adolescence may be a particularly difficult time for youths with a history of AD/HD,’” wrote the authors of the study.

Social Skills Are Important
Social competence, not academic skill, is the primary determiner of adult success, according to Richard Lavoie, Director of the Schwab Foundation for Learning. Lavoie defines “social competence” as an understanding of what is appropriate and the ability to successfully apply that understanding in social situations. Thus, knowledge is not enough; even those who understand the subtleties of social interaction may have a hard time making friends because of their behavior.

Do people who have AD/HD choose to be rude? Michele Novotni, author of “What Does Everyone Else Know That I Don’t?,” doesn’t think so. “It can be more of an automatic reaction due to the impulsivity,” she says. “Nonetheless, they do engage in socially unacceptable behaviors in social situations.” "What Does Everyone Else Know..." addresses social skill development and is a very popular book in the ADD Community.

Novotni explains that there is a difference between knowing and doing. “Many people with AD/HD know the appropriate social behavior, but just don't do the appropriate social behavior,” she says. “Rather than a lack of knowledge, at times it's a lack performance.”

Sound familiar? Novotni’s words echo what many of us have heard since kindergarten: “He knows what to do, he just won’t do it,” or, “She knows the material, but she doesn’t complete the assignments.” The gap between ability and performance is one of the hallmarks of AD/HD. Such inconsistent behavior can have a devastating impact on friendships.

NEXT: Part Two: Why Johnny Can't Read Social Cues

Why Johnny Can’t Read Social Cues

By Bob Seay

There are several reasons why a child with AD/HD might have fewer friends or be less popular than his non-AD/HD classmates.
Gabor Maté, M.D. says the results of the University of Richmond research are consistent with his experience in working with children who have AD/HD. The solution, he says, is to work with the child and the parents to develop social competence.

”Kids with ADD don't know how to read social cues. They don't recognize the subtle non-verbal signals that indicate ‘I want more of you,’ or ‘I want less of you,’” explains the author of “Scattered,” a book about the origins and treatment of AD/HD. “Thus, they intrude when not invited, and carry on with behaviors that are resented by others.” More information about "Scattered" is available at http://scatteredminds.com.

To correct these behaviors, Maté recommends that parents and teachers work to read, understand and respond to emotional cues given by their AD/HD children. “It takes patience, acceptance, and insight, but that's how the child/teenager learns to read the cues of others."

”In other words,” says a thoughtful Maté, “we do it by means of our interactions with them and by our example, not through attempts at didactic teaching or behavior modification techniques, which all fail.”

Closely related to the inability to read social cues is the AD/HD child’s need for almost constant validation. Children who have AD/HD – and many adults with the disorder – often do not like themselves and cannot understand why anyone would want to be their friend. “Because of their low self-esteem, AD/HD children have an almost insatiable need to be loved and accepted by their peers--at any cost.” Maté finds that his AD/HD patients who are children project a deep vulnerability. “Children tend to punish weakness and vulnerability in others because they don't accept it in themselves,” says Maté. “The ethic is to be "cool"--i.e., invulnerable. Thus they punish vulnerability in others, cruelly sometimes.”

Maté’s recommendation, again, is in the hands of the caregiving adults. “They are the ones whose responsibility it is to provide unconditional loving acceptance, despite whatever off-putting behavior on the part of the child. The more the child absorbs loving acceptance from parents, teachers, counselors, the more accepting he is of himself and the less he needs from his peers. He thus puts less pressure on peers, is less devastated by their rejection--and thereby becomes more attractive to them.”

Finally, Maté points out that kids with AD/HD have poor emotional self-regulation. “They behave in extreme ways that are off-putting to their peers. They throw tantrums, can be overly compliant one minute, hostile the next.”

”This, once more, is a question of loving acceptance--but more than that. I cannot expect my child or student to develop emotional self-regulation if I lack it myself.” Maté believes that the power of a parental example cannot be overstated. “If I throw tantrums in response to my child's behavior--something I personally have done more often than I'd care to count--I cannot expect that she will be self-regulating.”

”In short,” he says, “we adults must take responsibility for our own interactions with the child.”

[b]The list below are actually links at the Additudemag.com website.

http://www.additudemag.com/experts.asp?DEPT_NO=905&ARTICLE_NO=19&ARCV=1


Michele Novotni, Ph.D., Associate Professor in the Graduate Counseling Department of Eastern College in Saint Davids, Pennsylvania and author of What Does Everybody Else Know That I Don't?: Social Skills for Adults with AD/HD responds to reader questions.



Help for a Teenage Son

Struggles With Relationships

Leave Me Alone!

On The Move

Conversational Skills in Children

Difficulties Getting Along With People

My Son Thinks He's Gay

Relationship Tips for Teens

Problem Peers

Summer Camps for ADHD Kids

What is Normal Adolescent Behavior?

Playmates and Friends

Son Acts Withdrawn

Oppositional Behavior in Young Adults

Explaining ADHD

Eye Contact

A Pushy Kid

How Many Relationships Do You Need?

Conversational Difficulties

smooch
Thanks for the great articles and website link. I am printing off the articles so that I can read them and think about it. Just a quick read, ther are many things that have struck a chord with me about my daughter.

Here is on qoute in particular that is something that I struggle with with my daughter
__________________________________________________ ___

"Finally, Maté points out that kids with AD/HD have poor emotional self-regulation. “They behave in extreme ways that are off-putting to their peers. They throw tantrums, can be overly compliant one minute, hostile the next.”
__________________________________________________ ___

The extreme behavior/tantrums can be difficult, this has becoming more and more obvious the last couple of months.

I am so thankful for this forum. It's helping me understand my daughter
and even myself better.

Lattebon~

You're most welcome! :D These Forums have done so much for me, too!

smoo