So recently, my teacher made the comment to me as a joke that I might have ADHD. Mostly because I'm *extremely* under-stimulated in the vast majority of my classes, including some that, by my hobbies, I should be very interested in. So I did a little research into the subject, because I didn't think the teacher was joking, and I stumbled across a symptom list on Webmd (http://www.WebMd.com). These symptoms seemed to describe me quite a bit.

Are easily distracted by sights and sounds in their environment.
Are unable to concentrate for long periods of time on low stimulation tasks (homework vs. video games).
Are restless and impulsive.
Have a tendency to daydream.
Are slow to complete tasks. Difficulty paying attention to details or prone to making careless mistakes in school or other activities. Work is often messy and careless.
Easily distracted by irrelevant stimuli and frequently interrupt ongoing tasks to attend to trivial noises or events that are usually ignored by others.
Inability to sustain attention on tasks or activities.
Difficulty finishing schoolwork or paperwork or performing tasks that requires concentration.
Frequent shifts from one uncompleted activity to another.
Procrastination.
Work habits may be disorganized.
Forgetful in daily activities (for example, missing appointments, forgetting to bring lunch).
Failure to complete tasks like homework or chores.
Frequent shifts in conversation, not listening to others, not keeping ones mind on conversations and not following details or rules of activities in social situations

So, having found this set of symptoms that more-or-less, describe me to a tee, I wanted to make double-sure and tried to find a self examination. Which I did.
(http://www.add-adhd-help-center.com/adhd_test.htm)
I took this test, with said teacher around for reference, and discovered that over 46 of those "symptoms" apply to me. I say over because everyone around me adds to the list of symptoms that apply to me. But yet there is this overwhelming concensus among my friends and familyand a couple teachers that I *do not* have ADHD or any of it's "versions". Which is why I am writing this, because I would like to hear from others who have been diagnosed if I should continue with seeking treatment.

Backround on me:
In elementary school my grades were satisfactory, A's and B's. Upon entering Junior High school (grades 6-8) my grades fell sharply to nigh straight D's. The D's have remained a consistant until My high school years in which some became F's. Which is why I am repeating part of my Junior year this year.

Personality wise, I like to think of myself as intelligent. I've never had a problem doing work that I found interesting, but I do find reading of any form to be very difficult for me. I do tend to skip around a good bit while I'm reading, and many times I find myself having to re-read the same paragraph 6-10 times before I've managed to pull the full amount of information from it.
In writing, I do have extremely sloppy hand writing, which I just wrote off as what it was... bad hand writing. But I've noticed more and more that my handwriting is sloppy and that my characters are inconsistant with each other.

Honestly, I've been told all my life that my G.P.A is my fault, and that I just needed to try harder, and despite my best efforts I am unable to improve in my school work which is the major problem for me, as I would like to go to a decent college, and can't do that on my G.P.A of 1.2.

I've read nervousness is a symptom of ADHD, and while I do not feel nervous or anxious, I have a massive amount of nervous habits (nail biting, fidgeting, stuttering mid-sentance, etc) that I do almost constantly. I always have one leg or the other bouncing, and have done so since I was a child.

My question is, are all my "symptoms" mere coincidences? Is everything really my fault, as I have been told my entire life, and that I just need to "apply myself" more? Should I continue to seek treatment if my own mother prefers to think that ADHD is a disorder invented by drug companies to make money, rather than something her son could have, etc?

I do have a doctors appointment tomorrow at 3:15 P.M. for this reason, because I finally talked my mother into taking me. But I Want to know what the opinion of you who have been diagnosed with this disorder officially, feel about my situation. I find my situation at the moment to be extremely frustrating, all of these people that I can blow away in debate and intellectual conversation are leading my class, while I'm barely passing and I'm trying... this disturbs me.

You'll find that almost nobody on this board will "diagnose" you because there isn't really any way for even the trained professionals to do so in this situation.

What you're describing is consistent with ADHD. Many intelligent people manage to dodge the diagnosis for a long time; it takes a pretty knowledgeable person to tell the difference between laziness and ADHD.

You've asked for help. You have ambitions. That tells me you're probably not lazy and you're almost certainly not "slow". So, you could have a learning disability (LD), but there are a lot of reasons to suspect ADHD.

You've taken a big first step. Perhaps, if the doctor agrees with your self-diagnosis, he/she can explain to your parents what ADHD really is. Most people don't really understand it. I'm a psychologist (research & teaching, not clinical practice) and I didn't really understand it until my son was diagnosed -- then I was.

Good luck & come back to let us know how it works out!

In elementary school my grades were satisfactory, A's and B's. Upon entering Junior High school (grades 6-8) my grades fell sharply to nigh straight D's. The D's have remained a consistant until My high school years in which some became F's. Which is why I am repeating part of my Junior year this year.


Well I would say that any one who is interested enough to research reasons for poor grades probably does NOT lack desire. You are obviously having some thing stop you from reaching your potential. Weather it is ADD or not you defiantly need to have it checked out by a professional!!!!

Many people wouldn't know ADD if it bit them in the foot!!! Parents may have a hard time with any concept that labels their child as disordered.

I am sorry that I can not diagnose you I can only repeat what was said by barbyma in the above post that the symptoms are worth checking out!!!!


By the way welcome to the forums!!!!

Below I will post some hyperlinks that may be of interest.

Can't read boring stuff
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23775

Teen and Young Adult section. I am assuming the number above has some thing to do with the year you were born!!!

http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=90

Yeah. I'm in class right now, can't find anything better to do than occupy my time with an update. Anywho, I've been bored out of my skull all day =(.

My school day is devided into 4 blocks, with 3rd devided into halves and a half hour for lunch inbetween those halves.

1st - I went to digital imaging class. We were supposed to do a flash project consisting of 5 pictures, there had to be one transitional effect and text. I got the project completed, but my offering was very poor. Afterwords we were supposed to do a video interview of a student we were partnered with. We didn't get this assignment completed, simply for the fact that there was a class meeting.

2nd - I snuck out of the class meeting and went to class, the meeting was boring me and I wasn't getting anything from it. Upon entering class I was yelled at *at least* every 5 minutes for causing one kind of disruption or another, which just consisted of talking and being out of my chair. I hate the school labs chairs, they've got wheels and this thing to lower them up and down so I find myself fidgeting with them a lot.

3rd- We were given some kind of a worksheet... I don't remember much about it to be honest. Somehow I managed to get it done before the rest of the class, even though I felt I was going incredibly slow. I caught myself just staring at it and "zoning out" several times... had something to do with inequalities...

3rd 2nd half- Was given another worksheet, I was supposed to do... I think the odds, didn't get started, was up doing one thing or another. Lots of conversations happening around the room, some of them were pretty interesting. Apparently, someone was "sexually harrassing" another student, so that caused a small scene... was entertaining to watch *that* unfold.

and now, I'm sitting in 4th:
we're supposed to be working on a research paper, mine is done already, I managed to get it done the last time I took this class. It carried over, so I don't have to re-do it. I'm not given anything to work on while the rest of the class is doing the research papers... I have a project I'm supposed to be doing. I am supposed to compare and contrast writing styles and uses of technology between two tom clancy books. I chose "Splinter cell" and "The sum of all fears". I had managed to read Splinter cell, but I found it interesting because it dealt with my favorite video game, same name, I'm sure some of you know about it. Haven't been able to bring myself past the intro in "sum of all fears", even after 3 days of "reading"... It's in digital format so that makes it even harder to read because I've got things on my computer that are *so* much more entertaining... That's kind of sad.

So, I am to visit the doctor in roughly 1 hour and 35 minutes... I really hope that the diagnosis is ADHD. If it isn't I don't have another reason for feeling this way, and everything *is* my fault. Although, according to a friend of mien they have to use forms or the like that I give to my Teachers, Mother, and fill one out myself, to diagnose me by my behavior. These are the same people that are under the impression that I do *not* have ADHD, and that it's all in my head. If that is the case, I imagine my chances of being diagnosed with this condition that I am certain I have, are slim.

Thanks for being the understanding bunch! I'll let you know how things went as soon as I have a diagnosis one way or the other.

Although, according to a friend of mien they have to use forms or the like that I give to my Teachers, Mother, and fill one out myself, to diagnose me by my behavior. These are the same people that are under the impression that I do *not* have ADHD, and that it's all in my head. If that is the case, I imagine my chances of being diagnosed with this condition that I am certain I have, are slim.
Don't be so negative! First, every doctor has a different procedure. Some use forms (especially for younger kids), some give a long series of tests, and some are comfortable diagnosing from a discussion with the patient. Just keep in mind that whatever the doc asks of you, he/she is trying to give the best possible diagnosis and needs these tools to do so.

I do NOT think you'll be disappointed with your doctor. If it's not ADD, and you're having this much trouble, then they will look for what it IS.

Good luck!!!

Well, I just got back from the doctor. He didn't formally diagnose me, but he did give me Strattera and said that I sounded a *lot* like I was suffering from ADHD.
So, I start my strattera tomorrow, I really hope it works for me.

He's probably waiting to see how you respond to meds. That's actually how some diagnose.

Great news!

First day on Strattera. I've had the pill in my system for about an hour. Not noticing any side-effects yet... so that's good.

I'm really glad you went to the dr. and are pursuing this! Just wanted to let you know that Strattera works differently than Ritalin or amphetamine. They have immediate effects whereas the Strattera needs to build up over a period of time.

Have patience! The process of finding the right meds and dosages can be long and convoluted, but worth it in the end!

Kim

The strattera I had today seemed to help alot. I actually was able to do my work and not be incredibly under-stimulated by it. I had a small bit of nausea from the pill, nothing major though. But, I got nothing but compliments from my teachers about my "behavior improvements". ROFL.

The strattera I had today seemed to help alot.
Just knowing you'll soon be doing better can have a huge effect. Glad to hear you're on the road (to "recovery").

I don't get that though...
are you saying that I shouldn't have been noticing any improvement the 1st day on it?

I don't get that though...
are you saying that I shouldn't have been noticing any improvement the 1st day on it?
Well, it's not likely that Strattera work on you that quickly. It's not like Ritalin or Adderall, which are immediate action meds. It usually takes at least a week before you start to feel a significant difference. BUT.... even the idea of getting help can change your entire outlook -- that doesn't mean it's all in your head, though. You're probably happy because you've gotten help; your brain chemistry is affected by this. Maybe more serotonin, or more dopamine action, better clarity.

Yeah, my understanding about Straterra is that it works like some anti-depressants in needing a week or two to really get into your system and start working because it builds up more slowly. Stimulant meds kick in within an hour and go back out of your system when they wear off, but with these too it can take the body some time to adjust to taking something new.

I'm really glad that your mom was open to taking you to the doctor and that the doctor was open to hearing about the problems you were facing.

I am interested that the doctor just put you on a med without doing any other testing. Many things can cause people to have some ADHD type symptoms and many doctors want to try and rule those out first.

Also, since you have been dealing with these issues and the resulting feelings about them for several years now, I'm wondering if your doctor suggested going to see a psychologist to talk about some of this stuff? Most research shows that medicine alone isn't enough, that the most effective treatment is often some combination of meds plus some kind of counseling/coaching that helps the person work through feelings and make some changes.

Since you've already done some internet research, I'd also recommend getting a book or two about ADD for you and parents to read. Maybe you can find some at a local library if you don't want to buy one.

Some that I've found helpful:
"Driven to Distraction" by Edward Hallowell and John Ratey
"You Mean I'm not Lazy, Stupid, or Crazy?!" by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo
"Women With Attention Deficit Disorder" by Sari Solden
"Attention Deficit Disorder: The unfocused mind in children and adults" by Thomas E. Brown.

I'm glad that you've taken steps to get help with these things that were frustrating you and that the adults in your world (even though they voiced some doubts) seem to be somewhat open to listening to you and your concerns.

Hang in there!
~~bythesea

I am interested that the doctor just put you on a med without doing any other testing. Many things can cause people to have some ADHD type symptoms and many doctors want to try and rule those out first.

Many docs will actually use medications as a diagnostic tool. How one responds to a trial of meds can be very informative. With Straterra, there's no real risk of dependency if the diagnosis is off.

I find it very interesting how varied the diagnostic procedures can be. My doc, on our first visit, said, "Well, I'm about 75% sure you have ADD. I want you to try 15mg of Adderall XR for a month and if it works I'll be 100% sure." I know others who are going through EXTENSIVE testing. My son's doc is in between; DS went through a battery at school to search for LDs. Then his doc added some questionnaires.

Seeing how a medication effects someone is not a way to diagnose ADD. Just look at how differently we all react to the most common ADD meds. Usually only one med works for people and the others either do nothing or are horrible. For me the right med was Adderall if my diagnoses consisted of nothing more then testing me on a different med use straterra for example. Since that med doesn't help me that would mean I don't have ADD because I didn't respond as an ADDer should.

I don't think we should accept lazy doctors that don't want to really work to find out whats wrong with someone. As far as I'm concerned it is impossible to properly diagnose someone in one office visit. No other serious health or mental problem is diagnosed that quickly. The only things that should be diagnosed in one visit are things like colds or the flu. Everything else in medical history requires more tests.

People would not accept this kind of treatment for other problems but since you never hear about ADHD and since we are inexperienced and desperatley searching for answers when we finally decide to seek treatment a large majority of us don't think that the situation is strange we just want help and will take any help that is offered.

Oh and just a side note but since when does Straterra have no risk of dependancy. Just because a medication isn't in the news as a hit on college campuses doesn't mean it isn't addictive. All it means is that people who aren't prescribed it are not actively seeking to use it for recreational purposes. Talk to anyone that is not a drug abuser about which medications are the hardest to stop taking and the overwhelming reponse will be antidepressants.

Seeing how a medication effects someone is not a way to diagnose ADD. Just look at how differently we all react to the most common ADD meds. Usually only one med works for people and the others either do nothing or are horrible. For me the right med was Adderall if my diagnoses consisted of nothing more then testing me on a different med use straterra for example. Since that med doesn't help me that would mean I don't have ADD because I didn't respond as an ADDer should.

I don't think we should accept lazy doctors that don't want to really work to find out whats wrong with someone.
FULL agreement.

Seeing how a medication effects someone is not a way to diagnose ADD. Just look at how differently we all react to the most common ADD meds. .....Since that med doesn't help me that would mean I don't have ADD because I didn't respond as an ADDer should. Good doctors don't discount disorders if you don't respond to medication. It's not "if you don't respond, we know you don't have it". Rather it's "if you do respond, we know we've probably got it right." Not everyone responds to meds, but those that are not correctly diagnosed definitely don't.


I don't think we should accept lazy doctors that don't want to really work to find out whats wrong with someone. It's not laziness. It is just one tool.

I recommend reading "Listening to Prozac" by Peter Kramer. It's an interesting look, not a Prozac, per se, but at the interplay between biology and psychology and how doctors often use medication's effects to help diagnose disorders.


As far as I'm concerned it is impossible to properly diagnose someone in one office visit. No other serious health or mental problem is diagnosed that quickly. The only things that should be diagnosed in one visit are things like colds or the flu. Everything else in medical history requires more tests. I'm sorry, but that's just not true. While most initial diagnoses of psychological disorders are tentative, a VAST majority of both health and mental health problems are indeed diagnosed in one visit or with a single test.


People would not accept this kind of treatment for other problems but since you never hear about ADHD and since we are inexperienced and desperatley searching for answers when we finally decide to seek treatment a large majority of us don't think that the situation is strange we just want help and will take any help that is offered. First, I may have been desperate for help, but I was certainly not inexperienced or even searching for answers. Like many others, I knew exactly what was wrong with me before I saw my doc. Sure, I'm in the business, so I had an advantage, but lots of people do their own research before seeing someone.


Oh and just a side note but since when does Straterra have no risk of dependancy. Just because a medication isn't in the news as a hit on college campuses doesn't mean it isn't addictive.... Strattera is not addictive. It has no potential for abuse. It is not a stimulant.

The idea that all medications have addictive properties is bunk. The best way for a layperson to determine which psychoactive drugs have addictive properties and how strong those properties are is to look at the speed of the response. Stimulants like Adderall & Ritalin are fast-acting; so is Xanax. These are also highly addictive. It's not a perfect relationship, but it can give you a rough idea.

Strattera, like SSRIs, are slow-acting. They take time to take effect and time to wear off. People who pop Prozac, for example, get nothing but a placebo high.


Talk to anyone that is not a drug abuser about which medications are the hardest to stop taking and the overwhelming reponse will be antidepressants. Now this is something I have NEVER heard. I know of NO antidepressants that are addictive. Certainly, before SSRIs, CNS depressants like valium and barbituates were prescribed to the depressed and those are highly addictive narcotics. With all the non-narcotic choices, though, those just don't get prescribed for depression anymore.

If you are interested in this topic, there are a number of books and other resources out there that provide solid information about the effects of various perscription and illicit drugs. I'd be happy to make a list.

I think you are misunderstanding what I was trying to say so I'll try to clarify some of my statements

Good doctors don't discount disorders if you don't respond to medication. It's not "if you don't respond, we know you don't have it". Rather it's "if you do respond, we know we've probably got it right." Not everyone responds to meds, but those that are not correctly diagnosed definitely don't.

It's not laziness. It is just one tool.

I'm not saying I object to trying medication and I think we actually agree on this. Yes it is just one tool and most doctors will combine the information they get from this tool with other information they have gathered to make a diagnosis. What I object to is when it is the only tool used to determine a problem. Just as you've said above good doctors don't discount disorders ... but not everyone out there is a good doctor.

I admit this is a hot topic for me and it's easy for people that have experience to debate the pros and cons of different diagnosis methods. My concern was more for the people that have no idea what they should do or even how to seek help. I've had some wonderful doctors and have also wasted a lot of time and money with doctors that knew less about ADHD then I did. My intent is only to try to point people in the right direction

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. While most initial diagnoses of psychological disorders are tentative, a VAST majority of both health and mental health problems are indeed diagnosed in one visit or with a single test.

I think that works only if there is an actual test that can definitively prove that you have a problem or not. Can you prove if someone has cancer with one test of course you can because the test shows undisputable evidence. I think the very fact that there is no standard test or set of rules for psychological disorders shows that the diagnosis process is much more complicated and therefore takes more time then a quick questionare by the family doctor to diagnose.

I'm sure you've read many of the same posts I have from people that have repeatedly been misdiagnosed or are concerned because their doctor didn't ask any questions or explain anything to them. As soon as they mentioned ADD the doctor "Threw a prescription at them and sent them on their way" It's a phrase I've been seeing way too often. So yes I definately push people to get extensive testing. I feel it's much better to take a bit longer with the initial diagnoses then to waste years being either misdiagnosed or underdiagnosed.

First, I may have been desperate for help, but I was certainly not inexperienced or even searching for answers. Like many others, I knew exactly what was wrong with me before I saw my doc. Sure, I'm in the business, so I had an advantage, but lots of people do their own research before seeing someone.

I think I gave you the wrong impression here which was not my intention. I actually wasn't speaking of any one specific when I wrote my post. I was only responding to the topic in general and trying to share my thoughts on the subject matter. I definately apologise if the tone of my post was aggressive it was not meant to be. I was not trying to attack you, your decisions or experiences. Looking back at what I wrote I realised that I looked at your post more then the others mainly because I was being lazy and your post was right above mine. So I definately can see how I could have sent out the wrong message.

Like I said this isn't directed at anyone specific person. Yes I too always knew I had ADHD and I agree that people do research things before seeing a doctor. Some of that research they are doing right now by asking questions on this forum, which is why it is our responsibility to try to give them the best possible information, to let them know all of their options but also to warn them of problems they may face when first seeking help. Afterall there are still websites (and doctors for that matter) out there that say children outgrow ADD and it's not an adult problem.

Strattera is not addictive. It has no potential for abuse. It is not a stimulant.

The idea that all medications have addictive properties is bunk. The best way for a layperson to determine which psychoactive drugs have addictive properties and how strong those properties are is to look at the speed of the response. Stimulants like Adderall & Ritalin are fast-acting; so is Xanax. These are also highly addictive. It's not a perfect relationship, but it can give you a rough idea.

Strattera, like SSRIs, are slow-acting. They take time to take effect and time to wear off. People who pop Prozac, for example, get nothing but a placebo high.

This part is a bit harder for me to explain what I mean. Yes Adderall can be addictive but who gets addicted to it. People without ADHD who it's worth mentioning feel totally different effects from the drug then ADDers do. It's the people that are not prescribed these medications or do not take them as directed that mainly become addicted to them. If you have ADD and take stimulants as they are prescribed you have a pretty poor chance of actually becoming addicted to them.

Thats the part that aggrivates me the most is the way they portray these medications in the media. It needlessly scares people away from something that might greatly help them. Parents become paranoid that these meds will turn their kids into addicts when that is so unlikely. I really think there needs to be a distinction made between people who take these pills as medication and people who take them for entertainment. Right now addiction is defined as potential for abuse. That is not how I define addiction. I see addiction as a physical or psychological dependancy.

Now this is something I have NEVER heard. I know of NO antidepressants that are addictive. Certainly, before SSRIs, CNS depressants like valium and barbituates were prescribed to the depressed and those are highly addictive narcotics. With all the non-narcotic choices, though, those just don't get prescribed for depression anymore.

This is where ADDers actually feel addiction. And your absolutely right people who pop prozac to get high are not going to get high or get addicted. But once again we're not talking about people who are popping meds to get high. We are talking about people taking their prescribed medication regularly for an extended period of time.

I can say from experience that I have tried many different stimulants and even more antidepressants and the results are always the same. The stimulants are a peice of cake to stop taking, while withdrawing from the antidepressant are a long unpleasant process.

This is the kind of addiction I am talking about. The kind of addiction that effects ADDers. I honestly could care less what someone who chooses to abuse these drugs will experience. What my concern and I'm sure people taking these meds are concerned with is how they will be effected. This is why I make the statement about the requirements for a medication to be addictive. It has no potential for abuse only means that it's not fun to take at a party. I'm much more concerned with how your body reacts to the drugs when you stop taking them. Simply put if a medication is physically addictive your body will go through withdrawal when you stop taking the drug.

I remember being extremely ****ed at my doctor the first time I went through withdrawal because of course they used the ever popular this medication isn't addictive line and I believed it. If it wasn't addictive then you wouldn't go through withdrawal when it is taken away.

If the doctor was honest she would say what I meant of course was this medication will be addictive to you because you will use it properly. But don't worry the drug addicts won't find this medication exciting so they won't get addicted to it. Yippee for the addicts.

This is the point I am trying to make and while these drugs may not be addictive in the same way it still doesn't negate the fact that telling people they are not addictive is very misleading and unfair. I have spoken to many ADDers that have had similar reactions coming off meds so I know I am not alone in this. All I'm asking is that we stop acting like antidepressants are totally safe, non addictive and no big deal. The dangers of stimulants are well known and publicised. The dangers of other meds are generally kept a secret until you experience it for yourself. There is no reason it should stay that way.

Yeah, my understanding about Straterra is that it works like some anti-depressants in needing a week or two to really get into your system and start working because it builds up more slowly. Stimulant meds kick in within an hour and go back out of your system when they wear off, but with these too it can take the body some time to adjust to taking something new.

I'm really glad that your mom was open to taking you to the doctor and that the doctor was open to hearing about the problems you were facing.

I am interested that the doctor just put you on a med without doing any other testing. Many things can cause people to have some ADHD type symptoms and many doctors want to try and rule those out first.

Also, since you have been dealing with these issues and the resulting feelings about them for several years now, I'm wondering if your doctor suggested going to see a psychologist to talk about some of this stuff? Most research shows that medicine alone isn't enough, that the most effective treatment is often some combination of meds plus some kind of counseling/coaching that helps the person work through feelings and make some changes.

Since you've already done some internet research, I'd also recommend getting a book or two about ADD for you and parents to read. Maybe you can find some at a local library if you don't want to buy one.

Some that I've found helpful:
"Driven to Distraction" by Edward Hallowell and John Ratey
"You Mean I'm not Lazy, Stupid, or Crazy?!" by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo
"Women With Attention Deficit Disorder" by Sari Solden
"Attention Deficit Disorder: The unfocused mind in children and adults" by Thomas E. Brown.

I'm glad that you've taken steps to get help with these things that were frustrating you and that the adults in your world (even though they voiced some doubts) seem to be somewhat open to listening to you and your concerns.

Hang in there!
~~bythesea

Umm, I chose to be put on the medicine.
My family lives in West Virginia, we have a medical card, and barely enough money to pay the bills.
My doctor presented me with two options for diagnosis:
1) I see a psychologist for a battery of tests consisting of about 4 hours and $300. Given the time of year, and our financial situation in the first place, that's just not an option because the medical card won't cover it.

2) Just place me on a treatement for it, and as he says "if it works for you, then you know".

I chose to be placed on the treatment, with the end of the semester coming up I *need* to save my grades A.S.A.P and sitting around and waiting for a diagnosis for a problem that I'm certain I have is stupid, and a waste of my time that I could be being treated so I can work in school.

Although, I wish I had been placed on a faster acting treatment because I quite simply *do not* have the time to sit around and wait for strattera to decide to finally start working, if it does at all. I would have rather been placed on fast acting treatments to start, and if those didn't work, move on to the strattera. But when it was prescribed I didn't know strattera was not going to work immediately. The first day I took it I felt dumbed down, but able to focus, and I thought it was working beautifully, but day 2, nothing to relieve the symptoms, I only had side effects.

But no, my doctor was as convinced as I am after I finished talking to him that I was suffering from ADHD. He asked me a barrage of questions about my symptoms, and when I explained to him how I felt when I was trying to work, or just live life, he was as convinced as I am.

So, no, I chose this method of diagnosis for convienence and Time, it wasn't my doctor.

What I object to is when it is the only tool used to determine a problem.

I was the one who said they use it in the first place. I was defending/clarifying that statement.

I think the very fact that there is no standard test or set of rules for psychological disorders shows that the diagnosis process is much more complicated and therefore takes more time then a quick questionare by the family doctor to diagnose.
There are standard tests and sets of "rules" for many disorders. There is a set of diagnostic criteria for ADHD and any other disorder listed in the DSM. Many doctors are experienced enough to diagnose ADHD on the first visit with many patients. Sometimes the problems are more complicated or the doctor is less experienced and more information is needed.

I understand your concern with misdiagnoses. I've been there. I spent 5 years on the meds roller coaster because I was misdiagnosed. But misleading blanket statements like this one:

"As far as I'm concerned it is impossible to properly diagnose someone in one office visit. No other serious health or mental problem is diagnosed that quickly."

aren't the answer. If you don't have trust that your doctor knows what he's doing, you won't get anywhere. If you think he/she is wrong, get a second opinion, but don't ignore a diagnosis just because you think they didn't have enough information.


This part is a bit harder for me to explain what I mean. Yes Adderall can be addictive but who gets addicted to it....
You're discussing a completely different topic. You said:

"since when does Straterra have no risk of dependancy."

I said: "Straterra is not addictive"


I'm much more concerned with how your body reacts to the drugs when you stop taking them. Simply put if a medication is physically addictive your body will go through withdrawal when you stop taking the drug.

The term "addiction" has a VERY specific meaning in our society and there is enough misinformation out there about these meds. Yes, if a medication is physically addictive, your body will go through withdrawal when you stop taking the drug, but that does not mean that withdrawal only comes from tolerance (physical dependence).

Again, Strattera and SSRIs are NOT addictive. The discomfort of stopping some meds (like Paxil) cold turkey are called "discontinuation reactions", mostly to differentiate between these symptoms and withdrawal that's due to tolerance.


If it wasn't addictive then you wouldn't go through withdrawal when it is taken away.
Not true. See my last statement.

** in regards to antidepressants **
This is the point I am trying to make and while these drugs may not be addictive in the same way it still doesn't negate the fact that telling people they are not addictive is very misleading and unfair.
What do you mean by "addictive in the same way"? Telling people they ARE addictive is misleading and WRONG.

Just about everything humans know about prescription medication is readily available, public information. If it wasn't important that prescription medication be taken "as directed", you wouldn't need a prescription.

Information that isn't accurate can be harmful. This includes information that results in mistrust of doctors and mistrust of potentially beneficial medications.

I The term "addiction" has a VERY specific meaning in our society and there is enough misinformation out there about these meds. Yes, if a medication is physically addictive, your body will go through withdrawal when you stop taking the drug, but that does not mean that withdrawal only comes from tolerance (physical dependence).

Again, Strattera and SSRIs are NOT addictive. The discomfort of stopping some meds (like Paxil) cold turkey are called "discontinuation reactions", mostly to differentiate between these symptoms and withdrawal that's due to tolerance.

I want to be sure I'm following you here, Barb...

You're saying a "discontinuation reaction" is not withdrawal? Why are they separate things?

I'm only asking because I've had good friends and family members describe what happens to them when they miss their meds - Paxil, in most cases - and it sure as heck sounds like withdrawal to me. So I'm confused.

This morning when it was too cold and I was too tired to get up yet, but couldn't fall back asleep I found myself reading some of, "Attention Deficit Disorder: The unfocused mind in children and adults" by Thomas E. Brown (2005). In his section on different meds pages 264 to 267 discusses Atomoxetine (aka: Straterra). He says,

"unlike stimulants it is not classified as a "Schedule II" medication: that is, it has very low potential for abuse and is not subject to the strict rules enforced for stimulants, pain medications, and other compounds that, if misused, could cause addiction."

He says that it primarily targets the "noradrenergic neurotransmitter system", so it slows the reuptake of norepinephrine in a simular way as stimulants help slow reuptake of dopamine. Both of these neurotransmitter systems are the most involved in ADD. That there's no way to know which one is affecting a person more, which is why some may do better on a stimulant (and then respond differently to the various stimulants) and some might do better on Straterra.

Says for many that it can significantly alleviate both inattention and hyperactive/impulsive symptoms.

Says one disadvantage is that it does not provide noticeable benefits until the patient has been taking it daily for 3 to 5 weeks, but the advantage is that once it's in your system it lasts longer as opposed to stimulants that wear off at some point during the day. Common side effect are stomachache (especially if taken on empty stomach) and drowsiness, that usually diminsh gradually after a few days or weeks.

Peace, ~~bythesea

Says one disadvantage is that it does not provide noticeable benefits until the patient has been taking it daily for 3 to 5 weeks, but the advantage is that once it's in your system it lasts longer as opposed to stimulants that wear off at some point during the day. Common side effect are stomachache (especially if taken on empty stomach) and drowsiness, that usually diminsh gradually after a few days or weeks.

Peace, ~~bythesea
Ugh... I know I need to be more patient, but I'd prefer something that works *now* rather than later...

I want to be sure I'm following you here, Barb...

You're saying a "discontinuation reaction" is not withdrawal? Why are they separate things?

Thanks for asking for clarification, because I'm not saying it's not withdrawal. I'm saying it's not withdrawal due to tolerance. The difference really isn't important (I don't think so, anyway). Feeling bad is feeling bad, even if cravings are not involved.

My point was that tolerance (physical addiction) leads to withdrawal symptoms, but withdrawal symptoms do not necessarily indicate that tolerance has occurred.

In other words, just because you felt bad coming off a med does not mean you were addicted to it (what MafiaKiddo said).

Ugh... I know I need to be more patient, but I'd prefer something that works *now* rather than later...
Don't worry, Adam. All of these drugs say it will take several weeks (SSRI's it's 4-6), but most people notice a significant difference by week 2. Just try to be patient.

If the Strattera works for you, it's actually much better. If you miss a dose, for example, you'll barely notice a difference.

LOL ok I'll agree to disagree and move on.

Just wanted to wish Adamant1988 good luck before I forget. It really is wonderful when you find something that works for you.

Don't worry, Adam. All of these drugs say it will take several weeks (SSRI's it's 4-6), but most people notice a significant difference by week 2. Just try to be patient.

If the Strattera works for you, it's actually much better. If you miss a dose, for example, you'll barely notice a difference.
Yeah, but the problem is if I fail a single class this year I get to repeat my senior year. I'm failing my 1st and 2nd classes right now with about 55 avg in both of them, and they end in about 6 weeks... I think you understand why I feel a sense of urgency to have something fast-working rather than slow working...

Remember, it's not all about the meds - they can be very helpful for some, but they aren't magic. Some of it is going to have to come from you and changes you try to make, it's just the meds should help make those changes easier. So, in the meantime while you're waiting another week (or several) for the Straterra to get to a higher/effective level in your system so you can evaluate if it makes a difference, you can try to implement some behavior changes to help.

Break large tasks/projects into smaller chunks. Work at them piece by piece instead of getting overwhelmed by the larger assignment and putting it off because it seems too big or you don't know where to start.

For instance: you have a 3 page paper to write. Only try to write a paragraph or two or maybe a page at a time. If you have 20 math problems to do then try to do 5. If you get on a roll and finish it, great, but don't sit down with that goal. Maybe set a timer. I will work on this for 15 minutes, or a half hour.

Set up a rewards system for yourself. If you finish a project or a piece of a project then you get to do something you want to do: talk to a friend on the phone, spend time on email, watch a DVD, go spend some time with a friend, get up and get a snack, etc. I have a friend who pays herself a dollar when she does chores, then that's money that she use however she wants.

Try to do a to-do list. If you can see what you need to work on and when it's due it will help you remember to work on it, and it feels really good to cross things off. If you want to you can break tasks into pieces on you to do list too. i.e.: #1 write introduction for essay. #2. write body of essay. #3. write conclusion of essay. #4 proof-read and turn in essay to teacher. It will make your list longer but you will get to cross off more things.

So you have to decide if seeing a long list is going to freak you out and make you feel overwhelmed and better to just leave it as one task - #1. Write and Turn In English Essay... or if it's going to motivate you to do more things if you feel you've accomplished lots that you get to cross off by listing them by key steps.

Work with a friend. Sometimes it's easier to work on things if others are too. You can arrange to work together at one another's house or meet at the library. You don't even necessarily have to be working on the same assignment.

Have someone you're accountable to. Have your mom, your teacher, or a friend check on your progress. One way of doing this is saying that you will have page 1 written, or 5 math problems done by a certain date (that's before the due date for the entire thing). So on that date you check in with them, or they check in with you to see how progress is going. This way they can encourage you to keep on track, and you will feel a need to work on it before the final due date rolls around.

Try to get a little exercise - it will lower your stress, and will affect endorphins, etc. in your brain so will make you feel better.

Sometimes we think better when we're also doing something else so things come to us as we take a walk, or take a shower, wash the dishes, or while driving (our body is active but our mind can wander some or mull over what we're working on).

There are probably other things that can help, but these are the ones that came to mind.

I'm a student (graduate school) who's up against deadlines for assignments that are due soon myself - and ability to finish them will impact my future, so I can relate.

Best wishes! :)
~~bythesea

I know the meds aren't magic, but I can't sit myself still long enough to even start.

it's the weirdest feeling when I start working on math work, or reading assignments.

Like I look at the page, and it's like it's blank, I mean I know there's right on it but I can't seem to train my eyes on one single line because I keep jumping from line of text to line of text.

and that's ALL my second block is. I can't just devide it into chunks when I Can't even start. My first block is "digital imaging" but I have to manipulate all sorts of menus and interfaces and deal with frames of animation, it's just as bad in there.

I know the pills aren't "magic" or anything, but I need to be able to sit calmly and read and write without being distracted by the very thing I'm trying to work on...

You know what I mean?

Trust me, Adam. We definitely know where you are coming from. Bythesea's advice is great, and you do have to make a lot of changes; you can't rely on the meds to do it for you.

I promise that, if this med is the right one for you, you'll be feeling more in control soon. In the meantime, get proactive.

Also, please try to keep in mind that if the worse does happen, it's not the end of the world. If you have to repeat, you have to repeat. Too many people your age have the view that what happens now will affect the rest of their lives. For the most part that's just not true.

Hang in there!!!!!

Trust me, Adam. We definitely know where you are coming from. Bythesea's advice is great, and you do have to make a lot of changes; you can't rely on the meds to do it for you.

I promise that, if this med is the right one for you, you'll be feeling more in control soon. In the meantime, get proactive.

Also, please try to keep in mind that if the worse does happen, it's not the end of the world. If you have to repeat, you have to repeat. Too many people your age have the view that what happens now will affect the rest of their lives. For the most part that's just not true.

Hang in there!!!!!

I'm not worried about it affecting the rest of my life, but I would like to get into a decent college (I want to major in accounting and eventually take [and pass] the C.P.A exam) and I doubt that having to take my senior year over again looks very good on a transcript...