Hey guys, this whole issue with Tom Cruise against phsycy drugs has got me thinking about what everybody else might be thinking. Theres this interview that he had on the " Today Show", and his whole conversation felt like he was saying to me that I'm weak.

Anyway, before I go on and on, I wanted to hear your opinion first.
I don't know how to add a link yet, but I did ask in the help forum.
I'll tell how to get to the interview

Type in " Todays Show, Tom Cruise ". The first site were it says " passionate about life", click on it, then launch the interview.

:mad: :mad: :mad: For goodness sake he's an actor - what would he know???? He's no scientist nor does he have more than a high school education. We should just ignore him and other jerks like him!!! Ignorant opinions of ignorant people are not worth anything.

Get your fix of Tom Cruise bashing on this thread. By the way, for Tom Cruise, he has been remarkably quiet recently.
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19054&highlight=tom+cruise

and my personal fav...
http://tcruiseko.ytmnd.com/

Thank Scuro!!!!!

I really don't care what Tom Cruise thinks about ADD or any other mental health issue. My physiatrist doesn't try to act; actors should quit trying to be medical experts!!!!!

My two cents worth!!!!

Ok..I say everytime someone brings up 'You-Know-Who's-Name' in conjunction with ADD, they ought to throw $10 bucks in the forum cookie jar !!!!!

Good....Goddess....already....

I think Meadd's going to sue Tom C, for emotional distress, soon in civil court (0:

She's starting to sound like Daffy Duck whenever his name comes up when ADD/HD is mentioned...

Get your fix of Tom Cruise bashing on this thread.
But lets keep that Frankensteinian thread buried. :eek: Get the villagers worked up again, they're liable to burn down their local movie pally.

Digging up the Tom Cruise monster would be head-turning-round-and-round eeeevil.




and my personal fav...
http://tcruiseko.ytmnd.com/ Scuro, you devil.

That site got me laughing so hard i could . . .


Good....Goddess...
Good Goddess Indeed!

$10 bucks in the forum cookie jar !!!!!



We got a cookie jar???? Hmmmm Yummmm cookies!!!!!!!
What kind of cookie do we get for ten bucks!!!!!

No mention of where these ten dollar cookie jars are!!!!

I used to make my daughters put a dime in the curse word pot!!!! With ADD teens ones must have the foresight to make it a one way pot with a lock!!!! Wondered where they kept getting so many dimes...the pot was getting less :rolleyes:


Like the idea of "a you know who" jar!!!!!!!

Some of the newer members may not be aware of the "you know who" threads of old!!!! Thanks for the chance of getting them up to speed so to speak!!! Ooops meds must be worn off puns are one of my "signs" so to speak!!!!!!

he has been remarkably quiet recently.

Ahhh Mmm must be the glue cookies!!!!! My mom inventes them they turn to glue when mixed with saliva sealing the mouth shut!!! Now any one who bleieves in mouth glue cookies probably avoid "you know who" threads :p

Ok, I've heard enough. He did'nt make me feel weak he just made half of his fans disappear. The first thought that came to me was not even the doctors could'nt tell you what exactly what causes ADHD. Nor could they tell you what cures AIDS, but they still prescribe meds that help.
Honestly, I believe that my upbringing effects the ADHD in me now. I wonder if he applied all those aspects into his study. How are you going to alter a mind of a battered mother or an abused child. Sorry, it might take a little more than vitamins and medatation to help. I might be wrong. You know, I'm a little ADHD, I think differently, LOL.

Personally I think Tom Cruise is ruining his reputation, like srhtinker said, he's probably loosing half his fan base.

Personally I think he's a mislead kook who is thoroughly brainwashed. Just like that other guy, John Travolta.

Just like that other guy, John Travolta.

Yeah...but at least JT can cut a rug !!!!
That's all I care about with him ! As long as he doesn't open his mouth and speak while we're dancing, either, LOL !!

Nova

Yeah...but at least JT can cut a rug !!!!
You mean he's an actor making millions and he installs carpets on the side?!

:rolleyes:

Tom Cruise doesent know jack about jack. I would slap him if I ever saw him in public.

He's an empty crucible alright :foot:

Sorry for bumping this silly thread up, but I HAVE TO address something.

In his Today Show interview, Cruise called psychiatry a "pseudoscience". Carl Sagan wrote a great deal on what he called "baloney detection", which is the ability to discriminate between science and pseudoscience (one of my sig quotes is directly from his "baloney detection kit". Here's a summary of what Carl Sagan & Michael Shermer say are the questions you should ask when evaluating a claim (Italics are all mine. everything else is quoted or paraphrased from Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Kit):


1. How reliable is the source of the claim?

Pseudoscientists often appear quite reliable, but when examined closely, the facts and figures they cite are distorted, taken out of context or occasionally even fabricated.

They aren’t talking about mistakes, here. They’re talking about deliberate distortion to support a claim. It IS possible to distinguish between the two with proper investigative techniques.



2. Does this source often make similar claims?

Pseudoscientists have a habit of going well beyond the facts.



3. Have the claims been verified by another source?

Typically pseudoscientists make statements that are unverified or verified only by a source within their own belief circle. Outside verification is crucial to good science.

Most pseudoscientists resist scrutiny. They refuse to submit to the microscope. When challenged, their response is not to refute the counterevidence. Instead, they will usually claim that those who criticize are “uncomfortable with what they don’t understand” or that “all revolutionary ideas are ridiculed in the beginning”.



4. How does the claim fit with what we know about how the world works?


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.




5. Has anyone gone out of the way to disprove the claim, or has only supportive evidence been sought?


This is the confirmation bias, or the tendency to seek confirmatory evidence and to reject or ignore disconfirmatory evidence. The confirmation bias is powerful, pervasive and almost impossible for any of us to avoid.

For those of you who took statistics in college, you were always testing the null hypothesis, right? Science is always trying to falsify, not confirm. The best way to find out if all dogs have 4 legs is to look for a 3-legged dog, not parade 1,000 4-legged dogs past you.





6. Does the preponderance of evidence point to the claimant’s conclusion or to a different one?

The theory of evolution, for example, is proved through a convergence of evidence from a number of independent lines of inquiry. No one fossil, no one piece of biological or paleontological evidence has “evolution” written on it; instead tens of thousands of evidentiary bits add up to a story of the evolution of life.


7. Is the claimant employing the accepted rules of reason and tools of research, or have these been abandoned in favor of others that lead to the desired conclusion?

See #5 for why the scientific method is best.




8. Is the claimant providing an explanation for the observed phenomena or merely denying the existing explanation?

This is a classic debate strategy—criticize your opponent and never affirm what you believe to avoid criticism.


This goes along with #3. If you don’t allow scrutiny, you’re free to pick on what’s out there. Anti-evolutionists usually employ this tactic.




9. If the claimant proffers a new explanation, does it account for as many phenomena as the old explanation did?




10. Do the claimant’s personal beliefs and biases drive the conclusions, or vice versa?

All scientists hold social, political and ideological beliefs that could potentially slant their interpretations of the data, but how do those biases and beliefs affect their research in practice? Usually during the peer-review system, such biases and beliefs are rooted out, or the paper or book is rejected




Put psychiatry to the test with these questions, then put scientology through. See which one fits……

You mean he's an actor making millions and he installs carpets on the side?!

:rolleyes:

Scuro sometimes does that, and I sometimes fall right into it by
answering him, instead of realizing he's just goofin' around. (0:
Just like I started to with you, but caught myself, LOL

Usually it's when I'm distracted or exhausted.
(distracted cuz I'm working while I'm on here- and I shouldn't be on here, period- and going to log off here, in 1 minute)

So when I answer him, I end up looking silly and gullible, and then I'm POd at myself,..and a little at him for getting me again- but I always get over it... (0:

Good one, Toad !

Nova

Tom Cruise doesent know jack about jack. I would slap him if I ever saw him in public.

But didn't you see what he did to Oprah ?

LOL !!
Be our guest !


I know Scuro and Stan will get a kick out of my comment !

Nova

Nova said:
Scuro sometimes does that, and I sometimes fall right into it by
answering him, instead of realizing he's just goofin' around. (0:
Just like I started to with you, but caught myself, LOL
My poor girlfriend, I have her in a perpetual state of confusion, she's so gullible, she's fun that way! I grew up with a joker type of Dad, she grew up in a no joking environment. Head games are fun if they don't go to far and aren't demeaning.

What did Tom do to Oprah?

I'm innocent!

Even I, the guy who would be tempted to give Tom a kick to chops, if he was down...DIDN'T want more Tom. I had my fill on the last thread.

So...I gave folks links to get their Tom bashing fix and hoped that would be the end of the thread. BUT!!!...it seems that there is an aura of hate that floats around Tom just like with the Stars Wars evil characters. Folks are just collectivly wishing for Tom to get a boot. This energy force hovering around the earth...could be the starting force of a cosmic catalysm or possibly the next sxxxxxxxxx exxxx. :) Can I have fun with that or is that still too tender a subject? :rolleyes:

I'm a bad booooooy. :o

Links, oh yeah, I saw those, I got to go to work, I'll find out tomorrow.

So...I gave folks links to get their Tom bashing fix and hoped that would be the end of the thread. BUT!!!...it seems that there is an aura of hate that floats around Tom just like with the Stars Wars evil characters. Folks are just collectivly wishing for Tom to get a boot.
I'm not sure if it's Tom or Scientology. I like Tom's movies. But, he's dolt. This whole Katie thing is so rediculus; it's like he's created a tabloid LIFE to hide behind! Good for a laugh.

Scientologists are a dangerous bunch IMO. I could talk about them for a VERY long time!


This energy force hovering around the earth...could be the starting force of a cosmic catalysm or possibly the next sxxxxxxxxx exxxx. :) Can I have fun with that or is that still too tender a subject? :rolleyes:
As far as I'm concerned, just about any subject is open for some fun, but I haven't figured out what "sxxxxxxxxx exxxx" is, so I can't answer for sure.:o

As far as I'm concerned, just about any subject is open for some fun, but I haven't figured out what "sxxxxxxxxx exxxx" is, so I can't answer for sure.:o
um. nevermind.....:o

my favorite tom cruise site:

http://www.tomcruiseisnuts.com/home.php

Scuro !



I'm innocent!

:o
Me: Yeah...but at least JT can cut a rug !!!!
Toad: You mean he's an actor making millions and he installs carpets on the side?!


This is what I meant, ya goof, when I said Scuro sometimes does that to me, and I answer him.. lol !

Toad knew what I meant...but I almost automatically started explaining it to him anyways (0:

my favorite tom cruise site:

http://www.tomcruiseisnuts.com/home.php



AND there goes MY dislexia again, folks..because I skimmed right over the letter ' i ' in that link and all I saw was:

tomcruise'snuts


and I thought...hmmmm..

what the hades does that have to do with ADD/HD..
but then again we do go off in tangents..in totally different directions, LOL !!

and I could see how that might be Pem's favorite site.

and of course I had to click on it (0:

Meadd ? You still here ?
She's laughing her derierre off right now !!
She knows what I'm talking about. (0:


Misreading/skipping over/dislexing/dropping words/letters happens to me ALL THE TIME, LOL !!!

Nova

tsk, tsk, tsk....:D

AND there goes MY dislexia again, folks..because I skimmed right over the letter ' i ' in that link and all I saw was:

tomcruise'snuts

and I thought...hmmmm..


Boy, this one is ripe for the picking. That got a low grade rumble out of me, especially the hmmmmmm part.

People hear what they want to hear and I guess people read what they want to read. This may be some other mind mechanism besides dsylexia. Doesn't it have to do with predictability? Our mind fills in the blanks?

If you only knew how often I miss letters/words when reading them.

And I'm mentioning Meadd's name because she's one of the witnesses to a time when it happened on here.
Eyeforgot can vouch for me on another time.
Those are only two other incidences, out of zillions.

And it's not just limited to this forum.
I never mentioned it before because I was too embarassed to, but crappp...
With everybody on here embarassed about one thing or another...I figure between all of us- there isn't anything left that we HAVEN'T done, that leaves room for 'eye rolling' anymore.

All I have to say is that I'm so glad I'm a girl, and not a guy- because if it were the other way around...I'd have a hades of a time if I needed to use the potty, and I would miss the first two letters..and see this:
men

instead of this:
women


It has to be in the same 'family' of dyslexia, somehow...at least that's my guess.
Maybe TC, or at least his testicles, can tell me why I do that.

Nova

One thing to say. Is the baby really his? What a goofy son of a you know what...

I expect the spawn of Sat... Tom Cruise... yeah.. will be perfectly demented just liked 'daddy'.

One thing to say. Is the baby really his? What a goofy son of a you know what...
:eek: OF COURSE NOT!

Unless it was in vitro.

They have a lot of nerve, considering they believe aliens will come down at their designated landing site/headquarters to do some BS thing I wasn't listening to.

I've also heard mention that they have tried to blame the Holocaust in psychiatry.

The whole thing boils down to L.Ron's "theories" being rejected by psychiatry,which embittered him and started all this.

He apparently had delusions of grandeur.

Whether he really had schizoprhenia I don't know, but I can see why someone might have thought that.

Given the choice, the Rastafarians are waaay better. Better hair, hats, music and religious "substances," not to mention Red Stripe beer.

I wanted to join in college but I didn't have the hair for it. :)

Given the choice, the Rastafarians are waaay better. Better hair, hats, music and religious "substances," not to mention Red Stripe beer.

I wanted to join in college but I didn't have the hair for it. :)
They get my vote. But I didn't know you had to "join".

For the hair, all you need to do is let it grow, twisting it periodically. It's not too late unless you're completely bald!

But then, you also need to work on the accent ;).

You know what is really funny about these scientology nimrods.

It's all based on FICTION.

L.Ron was a writer of science fiction.

And the whole thing about the aliens, and the basis for scientology was all thunkded up by good ole' Ronnie.

And they turn it into a religion! :confused:

Has Cruise even played a doctor?

Doesn't it have to do with predictability? Our mind fills in the blanks?


Man if my unpredictable brain were more predictable this theory might fit!!!! I never know what I am going to see and even when I see it I am never sure if it is really there.

I saw tomcruises*uts!!!!!! Had to do a re-read because I totally missed the "n" mis-placed the "s" and who knows where the "l" came from probably from the "n"!!!!

Then throw in a post about babies!!!!!

and McT good haired aliens.

..... so these "snuts" have hairy aliens when mixed with Tom Cruise!!!!!!

Have I missed any thing?????

Yea ADD brains do tend to fill in the blanks isn't that want makes having it sooooo interesting??????

I think we are drifting from the family friendly theme though guess I had better behave or Andrew is going to put me in a corner!!!!! :o

Yea ADD brains do tend to fill in the blanks isn't that want makes having it sooooo interesting??????


Actually, everybody fills in the blanks. ADDers actually CHANGE what's there!

I will probably never forget when I realized why I make stupid mistakes in math -- I was copying a formula from the board in a multivariate stats class, and wrote "N +", then looked up to continue and saw "N -". There was no chalk mark showing it had been erased and there wasn't time anyway. The thing is, I didn't write it from memory; I literally SAW it as "+", not minus.

Weirder than weird.

Now that's a "why did I do that?!?!" moment.

I know where you are coming from, I've been there many times.

A good example fails me.

I know, like one time I was using a washcloth on myself and threw it into the toilet like it was toilet paper.
Or putting peanut butter in the fridge.
Stuff like that.

Or replying to a post, I know what I want to write and I proofread and I left certain words out, or wrote a word that I didn't intend to type.

I know, like one time I was using a washcloth on myself and threw it into the toilet like it was toilet paper.
Or putting peanut butter in the fridge.
Stuff like that.

If you haven't seen them, there're a couple of good threads with loads of "ADD moments" like this! One focuses on acts, the other on what comes out of our mouths.

I was using a washcloth and threw it into the toilet like it was toilet paper.



Toad,

That line had me laughing so hard !!
Driven to distraction, Baby !! Driven to distraction.

Nova

If you only knew how often I miss letters/words when reading them.I do this, except I do it with my ears instead of my eyes. My husband dictates his papers and I type them. He'd give me these sentences that didn't quite make sense but I'd type them, because if you break his train of thought there is hxll to pay (he's dyslexic). He always told me I left words out. I didn't believe him. Then one day I went for an ultra sound. Clearly heard the tech say there wasn't something there (twice) when she actually said there was.:eek: I drop words all the time. Used to make for some lovely arguement. Husband: I don't want eggs for breakfast. I miss the don't!:eyebrow:

Wandering somewhat back to the topic. Is this baby going to be Tom Cruise's first biological child -- if so, in a few years he may have an interesting reality check on his ideas about ADHD.;)

Scattered

Hi everyone,

Good thread, how I LOVE to verbally bash Tom Cruise!!!! I saw that interview on the Today show with Matt Lauer, and if I were Matt, I think I'd have gotten of the chair and just walked away.
Tom had some nerve saying what he said. He's no doctor! There is no such thing as chemical imbalance huh? I think he needs to keep his opinions to him self.
John Travolta is also into Scientology, but you don't see him preaching about Psychiatry, or what a crock it is.. No, he believes in what he believes and keeps his opinions to himself.

Tom has been quiet about it lately, I think the was at the recieving end of A LOT of negetive feedback. Even his #1 Fan, Rosie O'Donnell gave him what for. I never really cared for Tom Cruise in the first place, I did like some of his movies, (some) but since that remark, I will not purchase any movie with him in it. (not for myself anyway). Lately my daughter is into the movie The Outsiders, I watched it with her only cause Tom plays a miniscule part in it, the main characters, were Pony Boy (C.Thomas Howell) Johnny (Ralph Machio) and Dallas (Matt Dillon) so I think I may have seen Tom's character in there for about 10 minutes through the whole movie.
But I still wouldn't buy it for me cause he is in it.
I'll buy it for my daughter, she has her own dvd player in her room. But any movie where he is one of the main characters.....nope. One of my favorite movies was Top Gun......it's at the very bottom of the list of movies I'll ever watch again. War of the Worlds, I'll sit through the original, but not his version. Basically I'm boycotting everything he was ever in.
My husband couldn't stand him from the getgo, NOW after his little schpeil on the today show, my hubby hates him even more, he will forbid any movie that comes into the house with Tom Cruise's name on it.
He said the outsiders is ok, cause he did have a miniscule role in it, but every thing else....nope. Luckily, he's not one of my daughter's favorite actors either, so we're in luck.
Anyway, that's my opinion on Tom Cruise, and I wonder if there's a website out there called Tom Cruise S**ks.com
How's that for animosity?
Once again, great thread
Nesslee

Hmmm, Wal-mart, just for their predatory business ethics.
Home Depot (they destroyed a nice spot me and my bro liked and put their store there)
Local milk company for supporting DARE.

Now Tom Cruise for being a knob.

My boycott list just keeps growing!

Can't help myself. Must post to Tom Cruise Thread. Where do I find the secret compound? Desperately seeking double-wide in desert and used e-meter :eek: :p





Cruise's Faith Nurtured at Secret Compound



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/12/19/entertainment/e065345S88.DTL

Monday, December 19, 2005





(12-19) 06:53 PST Los Angeles (AP) --

Tom Cruise's faith in Scientology was nurtured at a secretive Southern California desert compound that catered to his needs around the clock, a newspaper reported.

Long before Cruise sprang onto Oprah's couch or blasted Brooke Shields for taking antidepressants, the Hollywood superstar undertook intensive study and counseling at the compound in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday, citing current and former Scientologists.

Behind the guarded gates of the 500-acre compound near Hemet, about 90 miles east of Los Angeles, Cruise had a personal supervisor to oversee his studies in a private course room, ex-members said.

"I was there for eight years and nobody stayed long at all, except for Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman during that period," Bruce Hines, who left Scientology in 2001 after three decades in the church, told the newspaper.

Cruise stayed at the resort for weeks at a time, arriving by car or helicopter, the Times reported.

The ex-church members said Cruise stayed in a bungalow near a golf course and had a special staff to prepare his meals, do his laundry and handle other tasks around the clock.

Cruise declined a request for an interview, the newspaper said.

Cruise declined a request for an interview, the newspaper said.

Declined an interview!!!! Why couldn't he do that when it came to spouting off about l psychiatry. I have never seen any of the movies he was in doesn't look like I will be making a huge effort to do so now.

Kind of paradoxical isn't it???? This kook Tom Cruise saying psychiatry is bogus while being the perfect example of why it isn't!!!!! He has got a bad case of :foot:

Hey guys, this whole issue with Tom Cruise against phsycy drugs has got me thinking about what everybody else might be thinking. Theres this interview that he had on the " Today Show", and his whole conversation felt like he was saying to me that I'm weak.

Anyway, before I go on and on, I wanted to hear your opinion first.
I don't know how to add a link yet, but I did ask in the help forum.
I'll tell how to get to the interview

Type in " Todays Show, Tom Cruise ". The first site were it says " passionate about life", click on it, then launch the interview.I agree with him somewhat. I hate the add meds. The side-effects make me feel ill.

Our brains are like muscles. We can train them to become stonger just like with weight lifting for muscles. Meds are kind of like steroids to help your mind become stronger. There is no question meds help. Just dont forget its possible to train the brain to become stronger. It just takes awhile. Once you get into a good healthy routine it becomes easier.

I think TC is just trying to let people know you can get better without meds. Nothing wrong with using them or not using them.

Our brains are like muscles. We can train them to become stonger just like with weight lifting for muscles. Meds are kind of like steroids to help your mind become stronger. There is no question meds help. Just dont forget its possible to train the brain to become stronger. It just takes awhile. Once you get into a good healthy routine it becomes easier.


I don't think that ADD is really a question of raw cognitive strength. It's not about thinking harder; it's about thinking differently. You can strengthen your brain (learn) so that hard tasks require less effort, but you have done nothing to impact the ADD itself. You can chunk information as wholes (as opposed to steps of instructions), but that doesn't mean that you've actually improved you memory, you've just improved how efficiency you are using your memory. You can lock yourself into a rigid routine, but if you break it, you're back to your old habits. Of course, there are real things that you can do to improve cognitive function (excersize, for example), which do help with ADD.

Our brains are like muscles. We can train them to become stonger just like with weight lifting for muscles. Meds are kind of like steroids to help your mind become stronger. There is no question meds help. Just dont forget its possible to train the brain to become stronger. It just takes awhile. Once you get into a good healthy routine it becomes easier.

I think TC is just trying to let people know you can get better without meds. Nothing wrong with using them or not using them.
Our brains are NOT like muscles. Brain plasticity is achieved through creating connections. ADDers don't have problems with connections; we HAVE the connections we need. The problem is in the neurotransmitter activity at those connections.

With AD/HD, the harder you work to overcome the problem, the worse it gets. It's like struggling to get out of quicksand. When challenged, the ADD prefrontal lobe slows down. The harder you work at it, the slower it goes. This is NOT something you can just train yourself to overcome.

And, people getting better w/o meds is NOT Tom Cruise's message. Tom Cruise and other scientologists state that "there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance", that psychiatry is a pseudoscience, and that the key to healing is to rid yourself of the alien spirits that possess you through a rather expensive service that only the "church" can provide called "auditing".

You know Tom Cruise used to have ADD? He did-and you know what-you can rid yourself of it--pretty much through persistent hard work--forgetting your label and your past is a big part of this.

You have to bring yourself to the here-and-know--away from past failures-and keeping yourself busy is another plus....I believe Tom Cruise to be an intelligent person--I do hope that just b/c he's an actor means that he can't be a human as well---what do you seem him as not equal to you? He is no god--he's a mere man-no matter what he says or does will ever change that.

Please don't judge him! Please don't turn away from the possibility of being able to fix your ADD-

remember ADD=is a disorder-which means its only a disorder b/c it interferes, or prevents you from living up to the standards set by society--if they aren't problems-the disorder is gone-you've freed yourselves of the disorder!

Once you've been freed-there's no label haunting you--you've become human. Don't let your problem become who you are---Try new things, and be persistent even in the face of headaches and feelings of hopelessness! Don't give up==live life in a way that you'll be able to sleep at night knowing you did the best you could have done--knowing that you wasted no time is a great feeling.

I hope someone out there understands. I have been trying so hard---I am on no medication-I have ADD indefinitely. Yet I really try--I feel very sharp pains in my brain throughout the day--sometimes even dizzy feelings-and severe mood shifts--it's very tough--but I'm getting over it--I can feel it. I'm beating the disorder. And I have been taking mulitvitamins--I've been reading the Feeling Good Handbook-I started a schedule for my entire day-I write down my entire day's schedule everyday. It consists of all the things I need to do-things I will do. Sometimes, I try to ready myself mentally for-just so I'm not caught too terribly off guard, if it were to actually happen---and I keep journal entries daily. Also, running a fast paced mile just about every night saves you from that stagnant feeling.

All of this keeps me in a constant state of motion=I'm someone who would be lost w/o this-but with it I have developed a structure in which I base my life on. It helps me-and it seems that my ADD is fading.

You know Tom Cruise used to have ADD? He did-and you know what-you can rid yourself of it--pretty much through persistent hard work--forgetting your label and your past is a big part of this.

I had a problem before I knew what the label met, I have a problem now that I know what the label means. This isn't some get out the pompoms and boost your self esteem...type deal. Keeping that smile on your face while popping supplements will not make ADHD go away. Go do your thing and all the power to you. What works for you definitly doesn't work for all. When I hear cure for all, it just sounds like preaching to me.

I have seen ADHD where a 16 year old kid doesn't even want to watch movies because he can't even follow a basic plot. He has no real understanding of ADHD because he can't follow along if you described it to him. I fail to see how his label would hinder him. He is so into the moment, that he doesn't think about labels and what it means to him.

You know Tom Cruise used to have ADD? He did-and you know what-you can rid yourself of it--pretty much through persistent hard work--forgetting your label and your past is a big part of this.
Uhm..... "used to"???:eek: Have you seen him lately?????

No, you can't "rid yourself" of ADD through persistent hard work. I agree that you can learn to work around many of the problems associated with ADD and, in the process, rid yourself of the "disorder". But, this isn't eliminating ADD, it's finding a way to live with it. You could certainly find a way to not need to do the things that are difficult. I don't HAVE to work in academics. Unfortunately, changing careers isn't something I WANT to do.

ADD isn't a LABEL, it's a DISORDER. It's a physiological CONDITION. Nobody is impaired by a LABEL.


---what do you seem him as not equal to you?

In what way? He's certainly a better actor than I am. He's most certainly not more intelligent or knowledgeable about psychological/psychiatric disorders than I am.



Please don't judge him!


Why not? He's judged us. He's judged the entire fields of neurology, psychiatry, and psychology.



Please don't turn away from the possibility of being able to fix your ADD-


I turn away from no reasonable possibility. Skepticism, by definition, is open-minded.

remember ADD=is a disorder-which means its only a disorder b/c it interferes, or prevents you from living up to the standards set by society--if they aren't problems-the disorder is gone-you've freed yourselves of the disorder!


Well, yes, in a way. Since disorder implies Medical::disorder by the context in which you use the word and since Medical::disorder is simply an abstraction used to determine who does and who does not need Medical::treatment (as believed by the medical community, with the predicate of impairment), whether or not one has a disorder does not accurately correlate with reality. Since ADD is a disorder that is supposed to be caused by a neurological difference, those who rid themselves of the disorder criterion are still left with the neurological difference. If one considers having to compensate for this impairment (beyond what the non-disordered would typically do) to be an impairment in itself, then does one really rid themselves of impairment (the predicate used to define Medical::disorder)? I do realize that the medical community probably doesn't view impairment in this way, but that doesn't really matter to me unless their view of impairment is logically consistent.

Does it even matter? A label, in the form of a disorder in this case, is just an over-generalization anyway. One should be focusing on individual deficiencies, not the label. It shouldn't be a matter of saying, "I have X label, therefore I should do Y to treat it", but "I have X[1..I] faults that are related to Y[1..J] labels, therfore I should do Z[1..K] things to treat it in order to function, though those Y[1..J] labels are useful as a baseline in understanding my faults." Medication is one approach (one that is easy and effective) and it makes it easier to focus and correct one's deficiencies.

I had a problem before I knew what the label met, I have a problem now that I know what the label means. This isn't some get out the pompoms and boost your self esteem...type deal. Keeping that smile on your face while popping supplements will not make ADHD go away. Go do your thing and all the power to you. What works for you definitly doesn't work for all. When I hear cure for all, it just sounds like preaching to me.

I have seen ADHD where a 16 year old kid doesn't even want to watch movies because he can't even follow a basic plot. He has no real understanding of ADHD because he can't follow along if you described it to him. I fail to see how his label would hinder him. He is so into the moment, that he doesn't think about labels and what it means to him.
Has this child always felt this way a/b following along w/ things? Does he always feel this way---Is he in a constant state of confusion-not knowing what's going on around him?

Originally Posted by bosipheus:
remember ADD=is a disorder-which means its only a disorder b/c it interferes, or prevents you from living up to the standards set by society--if they aren't problems-the disorder is gone-you've freed yourselves of the disorder!

Since ADD is a disorder that is supposed to be caused by a neurological difference, those who rid themselves of the disorder criterion are still left with the neurological difference.
First, "disorder" is not defined by "it interferes or prevents you from living up to the standards set by society". That is NOT the definition of "disorder". A disorder is impairment of one's ability to function, and that can mean standards set by society (i.e., not hurting others, not interfering with societal processes), but it can also mean the inability to live up to one's OWN standards or make the friends you WANT or NEED. It can mean being BOTHERED by the fact that you miss appointments and/or are unable to read for more than 5 minutes at a time.

Second, I keep reading the word "difference" from everyone on this board. Just what is it you mean by "difference"? Different from the mean? EVERYONE differs from the mean. What makes ADD extreme is how FAR you differ from the mean. This varies even among those with the disorder. And it varies among those w/o the disorder.

The population isn't divided into two groups (those with AD/HD and those w/o). It's a continuum. People fall everywhere along the spectrum of symptoms.

Let's say there is a test for AD/HD, and the scores on that test in the entire population are normally-distributed (as is almost ALWAYS the case with humans).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

If you break up the "bell-curve" into percentages, one person might score in the 97.2nd percentile, and be "disordered" because the symptoms interfere with their ability to function. Another might score in the 97.8th percentile and be capable of functioning, and therefore not disordered. Those scoring in the 99th percentile would be highly likely to be disordered, and those scoring at the 50th percentile (average) would be highly unlikely to be disordered. But, half the people in the world will fall below that average and half above. Does that mean that the half that score above the average are disordered? NO. It doesn't. People who score rather high on symptoms (say, 97th percentile and above) are more likely to be impaired and, therefore, more likely to be disordered.

Second, I keep reading the word "difference" from everyone on this board. Just what is it you mean by "difference"? Different from the mean? EVERYONE differs from the mean. What makes ADD extreme is how FAR you differ from the mean. This varies even among those with the disorder. And it varies among those w/o the disorder.

The population isn't divided into two groups (those with AD/HD and those w/o). It's a continuum. People fall everywhere along the spectrum of symptoms.


Well, yes. But, isn't ADD a disorder (per medical standards) that is also believed to be brain-based? If it is brain-based, wouldn't it make sense to identify those brain-based differences that cause ADD (not neccessarily specifically identify them, but just acknowledge their existance) [As in, brain-based differences that cause harmful impairment]? If ADD isn't brain-based and pervasive, how do we separate ADD from lack of sleep, malnutrition, etc.? Or is ADD just a blanket term for now that if we can't attribute ADD symptoms to any other cause (depression, anxiety, lack of sleep, etc.), it must be ADD. If it is, then that implies that the definition of ADD I gave before is incorrect (going from brain-based disorder to arbitrarily defined disorder).

Those collection of differences, counter-weighted by the ability to compensate for them, represent the continuum of ADD, do they not? If one increases their ability to compensate for those differences, do they become lesser on the ADD continuum? By logic, if one is not ADD while on medication (as stated previously on these forums), then one surely must be less ADD if compensation increases (by the same logic, using disorder as an abstraction). But that does nothing to the intrinsic, brain-based differences (which are a component of ADD, are they not?)

I am refering to this brain-based aspect in my previous post. I am simply trying to separate the abstract label (brain-based and disorder) to something a bit more concrete (just brain-based, irrpespective of compensation). That is all.

remember ADD=is a disorder-which means its only a disorder b/c it interferes, or prevents you from living up to the standards set by society--if they aren't problems-the disorder is gone-you've freed yourselves of the disorder!


My problems with ADD have nothing to do with society standards, I rarely worry about those, my problems are quality of life standards. I have trouble interacting with my family. I find myself restless and often drifting away even when just trying to play with my children. I spent 30 years not labeling the problem and it was still there. Labels are not the problem. How it affects your life is the problem. In my opinion, the debate on medication is not important. If you have a life problem and it is fixed in any way, medication or non, than that is what is important.

Well, yes. But, isn't ADD a disorder (per medical standards) that is also believed to be brain-based? If it is brain-based, wouldn't it make sense to identify those brain-based differences that cause ADD (not neccessarily specifically identify them, but just acknowledge their existance) [As in, brain-based differences that cause harmful impairment]?
Brains follow the same normal distribution that scores on tests do. No two brains are alike. The amount of dopamine available in the system (a brain-based "cause" of AD/HD symptoms) follows a normal distribution. Brains don't come in AD/HD and nonAD/HD any more than people do.


Those collection of differences, counter-weighted by the ability to compensate for them, represent the continuum of ADD, do they not?

They do, but, like I said, there isn't "normal" and "different-than-normal". There are values of different aspects, like a how much dopamine is available, and how much transporter activity there is, and what the bloodflow pattern is.... What is "abnormal" is defined by more than simply the level of dopamine availability or score on an exam. It's determined by the amount of impairment extreme values of these things result in.


But that does nothing to the intrinsic, brain-based differences (which are a component of ADD, are they not?)
I think that's twisting it. Extreme values on things such as dopamine activity are the underlying proximal cause of AD/HD symptoms. The amount of impairment that is a result of those symptoms is what determine if one needs treatment (needs treatment=has disorder in the clinical world).


I am refering to this brain-based aspect in my previous post. I am simply trying to separate the abstract label (brain-based and disorder) to something a bit more concrete (just brain-based, irrpespective of compensation). That is all.
Understood. To address that, I will repeat:

Brains do not come in "types". All aspects of neural activity follow a normal distribution. The difference between AD/HD and nonAD/HD is meeting a critera of impairment involving a number of factors. It's simply not that simple to say, "if you change your ability to cope, but your brain hasn't changed, you still have ADD". AD/HD isn't just a measure of how big the basal ganglia is or how fast you can respond to a stimulus. It's a set of symptoms that are the result of an underlying neurological function that takes an extreme value (or disfunction, if you will). NOT EVERYONE WITH AN EXTREME VALUE IS DISORDERED.

Most of us have had to find ways to make our symptoms less impairing; this is the function of planners, key holders, alarm clocks, and figet toys. If you think you can actual remove the symptom without removing the proximal cause (underlying neurological disfunction), I say GO FOR IT. I don't think that's possible.

Now, if you're saying that you were impaired by your symptoms, but you've found a way to avoid situations where symptoms are a problem, then no, I don't agree that you've rid yourself of the disorder. You're just avoiding problem situations. But if you don't need treatment, you won't get diagnosed by a professional.

Why does the exact criteria of when the label may no longer apply matter? It's just a tool to communicate a set of symptoms. What's important is the criteria for use of the label in considering treatments. If treatment isn't necessary, who cares?

Brains follow the same normal distribution that scores on tests do. No two brains are alike. The amount of dopamine available in the system (a brain-based "cause" of AD/HD symptoms) follows a normal distribution. Brains don't come in AD/HD and nonAD/HD any more than people do.

They do, but, like I said, there isn't "normal" and "different-than-normal". There are values of different aspects, like a how much dopamine is available, and how much transporter activity there is, and what the bloodflow pattern is.... What is "abnormal" is defined by more than simply the level of dopamine availability or score on an exam. It's determined by the amount of impairment extreme values of these things result in.


By cause, one doesn't have to mean a boolean trait. So one factor is low dopamine level. And there are several others. This is what I am getting at. I'm not looking at the abstraction of disorder, but the causes (the aspects that contribute to it). If it's not a dopamine problem, is it really ADD? (Even if all of the symtomatic criterion are met, without fitting the criterion for any other existing disorder?)



Most of us have had to find ways to make our symptoms less impairing; this is the function of planners, key holders, alarm clocks, and figet toys. If you think you can actual remove the symptom without removing the proximal cause (underlying neurological disfunction), I say GO FOR IT. I don't think that's possible.

Now, if you're saying that you were impaired by your symptoms, but you've found a way to avoid situations where symptoms are a problem, then no, I don't agree that you've rid yourself of the disorder. You're just avoiding problem situations. But if you don't need treatment, you won't get diagnosed by a professional.


Exactly. These factors are compensation. But do these compensation factors make the symptoms less apparent (masking them)? I wouldn't say that the things we do to compensate make us any less disordered, but from a output-standpoint, it may appear that way.


Why does the exact criteria of when the label may no longer apply matter? It's just a tool to communicate a set of symptoms. What's important is the criteria for use of the label in considering treatments. If treatment isn't necessary, who cares?

It doesn't matter. But whether treatment is neccessary or not is quite subjective.