I hear that it can benefit the ADHD mind. But I find it very hard to settle the mind. Maybe there are some good classes, but they seem to be quite expensive. I think I want to try meditation as a New Year's resolution for 2006. So I'd appreciate any information on your experiences. Thanks!

It will definetly help the mind in general. It has helped me quit smoking, drinking and made me a generally happier person. One area it didn't help with is my ADD. As good as I feel I still can't focus on the little stuff. Reading is a big chore. I jump from one task to another but fail to follow through. I'm now on a Strattera trial and this seems to be helping with the ADD. Of course everybody is different. I consider meditation the best thing I've every done for myself.

agreed about meditation. i started by reading 'Full Catastrophe Living' by Jon Kabat-Zinn. then i took a weekly course and even though i don't do the whole sit on a cushion bit, i am able to settle my mind.

alternate nostril breathing has some pretty awesome effects for anxiety and inability to get to sleep.

Meditation never really helped my ADHD nor did I see any studies showing efficacy in doing so, but it's still useful. The half-lotus position is good for posture as well when done correctly.

You don't need any classes on meditation. I got pretty good results with just focusing on breathing or relaxation. If your mind is still racing you can focus on some repetition, counting and prayers are commonly used in that respect.

It's good for overall health, but it's not an ADHD treatment from my experience and research.

Here's my version of the scoop:

1) DO NOT - I'll repeat for emphasis - DO NOT spend a lot of money on classes. Meditation is a VERY simple method of self-hypnosis that takes about 2 minutes to learn to use effectively.

In the early 80's my father spend $500 (more like $2500 today) for three of us to take TM classes. After 3 days of explaining their theory about what it does, it took 5 minutes to "teach" us how to focus on a "montra". $500 to tell us to repeat a word. What a waste!!!


2) I don't know how much it will help symptoms in the long run with regular use, but I have read some research that would make me think it's beneficial in the short run at least. This led to trying it.

Just prior to dx, I couldn't read a sentence of research w/o getting a bad headache and being overcome with drowsiness. On Adderall, I can read for a good half hour to hour before I start to feel a little sleepy. For a few days I meditated for about 10 minutes whenever I felt drowsy. It helped, but so does taking a break. I can't address whether it helped more than just taking a break, but it's beneficial in many other ways, so I figured it couldn't hurt.

I'll start a new thread with the study I found and why I think it's worth further study.

Thanks for responding. Yeah, I went to the TM.org site and requested more information and was told it costs $2,500! Ouch! You'd think they'd have a lower bar for entry, but I guess only rich people can transcend! : ) It would take a lot of soul-searching to pay that kind of dough. I appreciate hearing from someone who's been through the program and their feedback that it's pretty quick to learn. I think I will look for a cheaper class maybe at a community college or community center.

I think I will look for a cheaper class maybe at a community college or community center.
Actually, I don't even think you need that. It's REMARKABLY easy.

Pick up a book or even check out:
http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/mindbody/a/Meditation.htm

Keep in mind that meditation doesn't have to include anything spiritual, but can if that's your aim. It's primarily self-hypnosis, so it's a drug-free form of altered state of consciousness. I'm a scientist by trade, so I wouldn't say this if it wasn't supported by empirical research.

All that's required is a point of focus -- breathing or a "mantra" will do. Focus on the chosen point to the exclusion of all other thoughts (this will be very difficult at first). Whenever thoughts intrude, don't push them away or supress them, just return your thoughts gently to the "point of focus". Lastly, after 15-20 minutes, don't just open your eyes & jump up. That would be a little like jumping up after napping (ever get dizzy from rising too fast?). Gently bring yourself back by "discarding" the point of focus.

I haven't had a chance to gather the research I referred to, and I probably won't for another week at least. Hopefully I'll get back to it!!

Have fun!

I have a great (true) presonal story on this.

Way back in 1975, I was about to start my Clin Psych Internship on the Token Economy (Behavor Mod) and Neuroscience Units at a state hosp in N.C.

The B Mod internship was the most coveted one and was actually passed doen from friend to friend.

In those days, I was very much into my "mystical" Cheech & Chong phase, complete with long haired hippie stuff ( I've never squeezed trees tho tyvm).:)

The reason everyone wanted BMod Internship was the director had studied with Azrin AND, he was cool (translated: drove a Harely, ponytail/FuMan Chu, got high etc.)

ALL the things yours truly looked for in an internship at age 25.

Somehow or another, he was into Transcendental Meditation (TM) and talked me into going w/ him and his wife to an "informational " meeting.

The presenter was introduced as an ex-nun.

Having been kicked out of Catholic school in the 8th grade, I immediately got "nun vibes" from her.

I was sitting in the back of the room, when she announced we'd all have to give up alcohol, sex and drugs for 6 weeks in order to do this.

Well hell, I let out a huge laugh like "Raaahhhaa, I'll be doing that."

Everyone immediately turned and glared, where upon I glared back with a "Wut?"

Okay, fast forward to the graduation ceremony (cause I don't remember the sessions...lol)

We were supposed to bring an "offering" of fresh fruit and flowers for the Maharhisi.

I was of course stoned and late, so I quickly looked in the fridge and found only beer and a "dead" (black) pear.

I also managed to find a little wicker basket thing that looked like it was for Easter.
(It had to belong to my brainiac roommate).

I arrive at the ceremony place, which was actually on the grounds of the hospital.

(Every bit of this is literally/word for word/true).

So I go bopping in there and stop at the registration desk to pay my student fee.

The guy is a dick and wanted to know where my "offering " was.

(Oh yeah, here it comes).

I suddenly produced the basket with the dead pear and said, "Here's the fruit," whereupon he looked ****ed.

I remember standing there thinking," I thought these meditation dudes were supposed to be mellow?"

NOW he really was ****ed. but all he could get out was "Well, you didn't bring any flowers."

He was right of course, so I said "I'll be right back."

If you've ever been to a state hospital, the insides are often atrocious.

The grounds ,however, are beautiful.

So I go out the door, and turn left into the flower bed, with the giant yellow flowers.

I then pulled one up by the roots and went back inside.

(This was a very large flower btw).

I walked up and promptly dropped the whole thing on the desk(dirt clods and all) and said, "Here man, these are fresh."

I then got the fast track into the "ceremony" with the ex-nun.

I walk in the room and there's candles,and incense and a picture of the Maharishi.

She then told me to bow and I said "No. He's even not here and if her were, I wouldn't anyway. I"m not bowing to some little fat guy in a sheet."

We compromised on my nodding my head and she gave me my Mantra (which I still remember).

Several years later I read in Time magazine where everyone with a certain age group (like the 20's for example) all got the same one.

At the end, she made the mistake of asking me if I had any questions.

I then asked her how do you get to be the guru w/the Rolls Royce and live in a castle in Switzerland?

I was pretty sure I could handle that.

Anyway, she said it was time for me to go and I did.

To her credit, she didnt get angry. However, the dirt clod dude at the desk looked like he was in shock:)

That's my real life experience with meditation.

tc
mctavish23 (Robert)

I walk in the room and there's candles,and incense and a picture of the Maharishi.

She then told me to bow and I said "No. He's even not here and if her were, I wouldn't anyway. I"m not bowing to some little fat guy in a sheet."

Okay, I was 15 and quite the skeptic, but after several days of trying hard to convince us this wasn't a religion, seeing my "guide" pray to what I can only describe as a shrine to the big M really turned me off.

When he motioned for me to kneel & bow I just looked at him like he was nuts and stood there. I don't think I'd have the nerve even today to call him a "little fat guy in a sheet"!




We compromised on my nodding my head and she gave me my Mantra (which I still remember).

Several years later I read in Time magazine where everyone with a certain age group (like the 20's for example) all got the same one.
I always thought they made us promise to keep it a secret so we'd feel it was "special". That's a bit enlightening!

Thanks for sharing, Robert!:)

With all due respect to my fellow ADDer's I must come to the rescue of Transcendental Meditation. Bottom line it's the best thing I've ever done for myself.
I took TM at the age of 19, in part because I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin (today's diagnosis Social Phobia) I'm now 48 and have rediscovered TM after two years of trying to solve my problems with drugs. Many people become frustrated when trying meditation on their own. This is no different than trying to teach yourself golf or singing. TM offers a guided hand for life. They are there if and when you need them. How many of us are willing to spend $2,500.00 on a big screen TV or a winter vacation? How long are those treasures going to last? By todays prices my TM costs break down to less than 25 cents per day based on the 30 years that have passed. I plan on paying for my child's TM costs, if and when she wants to try, as well as any family member.

My thoughts... I think Barbyma has it right when she stated to pick up on books or you can even look online. There is a world of helpful resources out there. I find meditation is pretty awesome. If it helps me with calming me for even a moment then that is a prized moment. It is pretty good stuff. People say it doesnt help with ADD/ADHD but, in my opinion, having ADD and still being able to put my mind at ease even for just minutes in a day... That is quite helpful indeed.

Okay, I was 15 and quite the skeptic, but after several days of trying hard to convince us this wasn't a religion, seeing my "guide" pray to what I can only describe as a shrine to the big M really turned me off.

When he motioned for me to kneel & bow I just looked at him like he was nuts and stood there. Herein lies my problem with meditation and resistance to my therapist' frequent encouragement (backed up by lots of research) to meditate. My early experience with meditation was similar to what's been described (although definately less colorful than, McT's! -- however, I'm sure I'm generally a less colorful person than Robert anyway!:p ). I was at a group retreat to train personal growth facilitators. We were suppose to do this meditation and visualization thing which involved light coming down and filling us and such and than we were suppose to turn to the person next to us, fold our hands, bow and say, "I salute the god(ess) in you." Sounded too much like worship for my comfort level.

Scattered

I routinely show kids & parents how to do a brief deep muscle relaxtion training with guided visual imagery and then add specific Cognitive-Behavioral thought stopping techniques to help interrupt negative or intrusive thoughts.

I use it myself to help with stress.

I don't use it for hyperactivity, as it won't work.

If there is some comorbid condition that might be helped by trying it, then I go over it.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with meditation.

I do,however,have a problem with "guru's" though.

The question posed by the thread brought that incident to mind and I thought I'd share.

With all due respect to my fellow ADDer's I must come to the rescue of Transcendental Meditation. Bottom line it's the best thing I've ever done for myself.
I hope nobody is misunderstanding me. I don't knock meditation. Even though I have a hard time following a routine of doing it, I do believe it will "prove" VERY beneficial, and I also think it has promise for relieving some ADD symptoms.

What I disagree with is this:


Many people become frustrated when trying meditation on their own. This is no different than trying to teach yourself golf or singing.
I'm sure there are those who are more comfortable with guidance, but I don't think it's necessary for most people.

I suppose for many ADDers, it's difficult to maintain focus and the TM classes and "checks" are helpful in that respect, but I just don't see the value in paying someone to "spot" such a practice.

So, I guess there are 2 sides to this coin!

I was at a group retreat to train personal growth facilitators. We were suppose to do this meditation and visualization thing which involved light coming down and filling us and such and than we were suppose to turn to the person next to us, fold our hands, bow and say, "I salute the god(ess) in you." Sounded too much like worship for my comfort level.
:eek::D:eek:

Okay, THAT would have sent me running out the door!!!

TM, thank goodness, doesn't "teach" such romantic visualizations. The only time that I saw this type of behavior was at the final "training". The classes were actually designed to give a scientific feel to them. Of course, I took the class in the early 80's, so it had obviously changed in the short time between Robert's & my experiences....

Just a couple of extras. The mantra is a sanskrit sound or word that is chosen because of it's vibrational qualities. They are based on primordial sounds which are common to all language.

As for the ceremony, it's a ceremony. It's a tradition giving thanks to those who passed the practise on from generation to generation. It's no different than being asked to take off your shoes when entering a person's house in Japan. They're not asking you to change your way of thinking, just to pay respect.
Learning to respect other peoples ways is a lesson not too early learned.

As for the ceremony, it's a ceremony. It's a tradition giving thanks to those who passed the practise on from generation to generation. It's no different than being asked to take off your shoes when entering a person's house in Japan. They're not asking you to change your way of thinking, just to pay respect. Sorry. I don't see bowing to a shrine as "showing respect". It's worship.

As far as "thanking" the teacher, isn't that what the money is for?

Learning to respect other peoples ways is a lesson not too early learned.
I didn't poop in the garden or draw on the walls. It's not disrespect to refuse to participate in a ceremony that I was told nothing about. You could certainly argue that I'm disrespecting them now by poking fun and I'll agree with you there.

Sorry. I don't see bowing to a shrine as "showing respect". It's worship.

As far as "thanking" the teacher, isn't that what the money is for?


No, worship is for believers.


No, thanks is heartfelt appreciation, money pays the bills. But the idea is to thank those who can no longer use money. If you know what I mean.

Meditation need not be associated with any particular philosophy, religion or organisation. It definitely shouldn't cost a dime to access the straight goods (http://www.mro.org/zmm/meditation/).

It's an ancient practise that's been effective for me in learning more about places within me that are calm and compassionate. It's most evident benefits are not missing some of the opportunities I might have been missing by simply moving too quickly.

I did my first formal meditation in 1977 and off and on, have continued to practise in a plain and simple manner. The austerity of the practise was what attracted me to it in the first place.

Once I witnessed an odd bit of Zen practise that greatly impressed me. Like many here, I've been known to be a belligerent cynic and not shy to voice my ideas when a stink is in the air.

My questions about the integrity of the process came to a abrupt halt one day several years ago.

As part of a regular meeting, there was specific time set aside to openly question the resident zen master. Inside myself I scoffed and chortled as I awaited a staged and limp line of questioning.

To my amazement, the questions were well thought out and viciously pointed and challenging. I was even more incredulous at the intelligence of the responses.

I looked into this element afterward and found that it was incumbent on the community of students to pose the most difficult questions they could muster. It is seen as a sign of strength to ask real and difficult questions and a reflection of the health of the congregation just how challenging those questions are.

It was obvious to me at least that the practise wasn't new simply by the depth of the questions. The students had been practicing. The questions ranged from personal struggles to well thought out questions surrounding social issues among others. Seeing the leader actually lead on something other than faith was a stunning shock to my jaded outlook.

So in short, my questions about the merit of the process came to a stop that day. I've read enough literature now to have confirmed my gut feeling about the honesty of the process being... well... honest.

I don't need religion or other requirements of faith. Show me, don't tell me, is where I'm most comfortable.

It's free, it's been around for thousands of years. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Like Robert, finding a place to be still has been good for me in whatever form it takes.
Cheers!

No, thanks is heartfelt appreciation, money pays the bills. But the idea is to thank those who can no longer use money. If you know what I mean.
I take it you mean those who are no longer "with us", right?

Can they use the fruit & flowers? ;)

Seriously, though. I just don't prescribe to that kind of "spiritualism". Poking a little fun isn't meant to ruffle any feathers, so if I did, I sincerely apologize.

Once I witnessed an odd bit of Zen practise that greatly impressed me. Like many here, I've been known to be a belligerent cynic and not shy to voice my ideas when a stink is in the air.
Please don't get the wrong idea (speaking for myself, only) -- I'm a skeptic, not a cynic. I'm not assuming this comment was meant for me, but I tend to take a pretty hard stance sometimes and just want to clarify what might appear to be obstinance.

I've stated many times that I believe the practice of meditation will prove beneficial to ADHD with more research. I'm not familiar with other areas of objective research on it, but I'm sure there's some documentation about health benefits like lowered blood pressure, relief from asthma, and reduced chronic pain. These, afterall, are helped a great deal by hypnosis, which is just a guided form of meditation.

I think it's also important that people understand that meditation will not be helpful for everyone.

There is a spectrum of "receptiveness" to hypnosis and the factors involved are unknown. The most likely candidate is variation in brain structures. I haven't seen a study on this, but all the ADDers I know (including myself) are highly receptive to hypnosis, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out that dopamine levels in the frontal lobe are connected.

While we don't know what makes a person receptive, we do know a few things that correlate with it -- people with a rich fantasy life or strong imagination are more receptive. We also know that it is NOT correlated with things like "gullibility" or "naiveness". It's also not correlated with intelligence.

Just thought that might be of interest.


As part of a regular meeting, there was specific time set aside to openly question the resident zen master.....To my amazement, the questions were well thought out and viciously pointed and challenging. I was even more incredulous at the intelligence of the responses.
Were these questions about zen and meditation, or were these philosophical questions? Just curious.

Please don't get the wrong idea (speaking for myself, only) -- I'm a skeptic, not a cynic. I'm not assuming this comment was meant for me, but I tend to take a pretty hard stance sometimes and just want to clarify what might appear to be obstinance.

I wasn't making assumptions about you, or if I was understood that way, I wasn't meaning to.


Were these questions about zen and meditation, or were these philosophical questions? Just curious.
They were mostly questions surrounding a difficult personal moral dilemma.

Poking a little fun isn't meant to ruffle any feathers, so if I did, I sincerely apologize.
No ruffled feathers here. I was born to argue. You have to take it if you're going to dish it out.:soapbox:

:D
http://www.thaifta.com/storyboard/cooperation.gif

For me, that is the beauty of meditation. You can tie it to a religion if you have one but you don't have to. You can just even think of something you love or something that makes you happy or say encouraging words to yourself over and over again or simply focus on your breathing. It all seems to bring a more peaceful mind which also brings rest and can even bring healing to the body...kind of the body, mind, and spirit all working together. I started doing Yoga about a year ago just by picking up Yoga magazines and looking up stuff online and I can say that it has given me a whole new outlook. I think the greatest thing I've gotten out of meditation is to hear myself more clearly. I can feel what my body is telling me it needs quicker now. I have a better sense of awareness as well as intuition. I also have a greater love for people. In a wierd way I would worship no one, yet I also feel like everyone is worthy of being worshiped. Well, there is my 2 cents. :) You could even get into the song by the Plolice "Every Move U Make", sink into the words and realize the song is your higher self, that place you go to in meditation. Who else watches...every move you make...and every step you take. Who else knows you inner most thoughts? Who else says there is this part of me that can't concentrate and I screw things up a lot but I'm not giving up? Who else can mess up but still move on. Obviously YOU! :) Peace out.

I also have a greater love for people. In a wierd way I would worship no one, yet I also feel like everyone is worthy of being worshiped. .

Nicely said. I would have never guessed that this would be a by-product of meditation but it turns out to be one of the greatest aspects. When you begin to look at people you meet each day as friend instead of foe, your day goes a lot smoother.

Nicely said. I would have never guessed that this would be a by-product of meditation but it turns out to be one of the greatest aspects. When you begin to look at people you meet each day as friend instead of foe, your day goes a lot smoother.
I don't get how this is a byproduct of meditation....

Looking at people with a positive attitude doesn't have anything to do with medidation, it's something you've changed. Meditation is just focus -- you decide what to focus on. I think it's fantastic that you chose to focus on positive, productive things, but it's still your choice.

The longer I practise the more broadly the implications of my efforts. Well said, thanks.
Cheers!

what is essential is invisible to the eye
antoine de saint-exupery

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/The_Little_Prince.jpg/180px-The_Little_Prince.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Prince)

I don't get how this is a byproduct of meditation....

Looking at people with a positive attitude doesn't have anything to do with medidation, it's something you've changed. Meditation is just focus -- you decide what to focus on. I think it's fantastic that you chose to focus on positive, productive things, but it's still your choice.
You are contradicting yourself here. "You don't get how this is a byproduct of meditation... yet meditation is focus and you decide what to focus on". Right, and that's why meditation is beautiful and effective and can help with ADD or whatever your true self wants help with. I know this because I've lived it and it has changed my life. It has taken a while and just as with anything else it takes some discipline because I can tell when I stop doing it I can get back into negative thinking patterns. I am starting a new job today, excited about it, and this is HUGE for me. I would definitiely give Yoga/Meditation credit for this. Sure, maybe it's because inside this is what I wanted for myself and always have. I couldn't get there though and somehow through meditation I am for sure growing in the direction I have dreamed about going in for so long. Why I guess? Because I am stopping long enough to focus on it, to meditate, to pause, to breathe. We at least most of us Americans don't do this very well. So we go to church to get try and get spiritual food and it becomes another thing that CAN (not always) distracts us or is just something on the "to do" list. Meditation is different, it is you and God or whatever you want to call it. I think it allows you to get into awareness of your higher self and then you start living like you crave to live. Since I started it though about a year ago things got harder at first. Now I feel like a new person and I'm going to stop writing and save it for a book or my journal. Don't want to bore anyone.

"barbyma"... you could be right in a way by saying it was my choice that was part of this change. But unless we take the time to find out and focus/meditate on what that is then we most likely won't get there. Or we will have an F'n nervous breakdown trying to do it on our own. The higher self/higher power/God - has to be recognized and kick in. I guess this is why meditation helps me. It's my way of connecting to that part of me that I really can't seem to change on my own. But yet in a way I agree that it is me changing it but it's meditation that got me there. :p

I also have a greater love for people. In a wierd way I would worship no one, yet I also feel like everyone is worthy of being worshiped. Meditation takes you back or get's you in touch with your essential nature. Your true self. Your true self feels respect for other people while at the same time feeling beneath no one. It feels humble because it recognizes that everyone else is the same self, the same spirit in different disguises.

Meditation is not the act of focusing. If anything it's the opposite. And it's also just the vehicle.

Thanks this has been a really helpful thread. You've warned me that I don't need the $2,500-dollar "program" to learn meditation. You've told me how meditation has helped you. I was telling a friend that I want to learn meditation this year. She recommended this site. www.thewayofseeing.com (http://www.thewayofseeing.com) They have free classes in the Seattle area. I'm going to check it out.

Thanks this has been a really helpful thread. You've warned me that I don't need the $2,500-dollar "program" to learn meditation. You've told me how meditation has helped you. I was telling a friend that I want to learn meditation this year. She recommended this site. www.thewayofseeing.com (http://www.thewayofseeing.com/) They have free classes in the Seattle area. I'm going to check it out.
Addpodcast - I think you will be enriched greatly as you try this out. And I completely agree that you don't need to spend any money on it. There are so many books and websites available, find out which ones click with you and make ya tick. Also, as you look within through meditation, you will actually know what to do all by yourself. It will just come to you and your intuition will grow. So good luck!! I feel excited for you. Yoga really helps me and I almost just spent a bunch of money for classes but I realized I was getting just as much out of it on my own.

Meditation takes you back or get's you in touch with your essential nature. Your true self. Your true self feels respect for other people while at the same time feeling beneath no one. It feels humble because it recognizes that everyone else is the same self, the same spirit in different disguises.

Meditation is not the act of focusing. If anything it's the opposite. And it's also just the vehicle.
I completely agree with you on this. I guess it's exactly what you said, it's the vehicle that helped me get in touch with my essential nature when other things just weren't getting me to that. "The spirit in different disguises" that is B E A Utiful! I love it! I heard another Sting/Police song the other day that I would not have connected with a year ago but since I've been meditating, the song made perfect sense to me. "We are spirits...in a material world".

later gators.
Oh yeah, Go Steelers! So not apropriate for this topic but can't help it. :)

Addpodcast "The spirit in different disguises" that is B E A Utiful! I love it! :)
I should have had quotes around that one. It's taken from Deepak Chopra's HIGHER SELF, or SEVEN SPIRTUAL LAWS OF SUCCESS.

Seahawks by 6:D

Seahawks by 6:D
3 days and I guess we'll find out. My vibe is Steelers by 3. I'm so guessing here, I don't even know if scores really turn out that way. But that's my vibe so I'm sticking to it. :p

Meditation takes you back or get's you in touch with your essential nature. Your true self. .....

Meditation is not the act of focusing. If anything it's the opposite. And it's also just the vehicle.
Sorry, but I beg to differ. Meditation is exactly the act of focusing. It's focusing thought on one stimulus and diverting attention from other stimuli.

Just what is one's "essential nature" or "true self"? How is this different from the self we experience daily????

Is there some "awareness" or "enlightenment" that only meditation can give? If so, what's the context of that information???

What is our essential nature? Ah grasshopper, I'm glad you asked. I'll see if I can do this justice. Among other things our true nature is silence. Everything we perceive comes from the unknown, the unmanifest, the source. All things come from this source and one of the characteristics of the unmanifest is pure silence. We are created from this very silence. Our everyday world with inumerable sensory inputs is everything but pure silence. Getting back to this pure silence or pure conciousness is what is meant by enlightenment. Because it is our true nature, effort is not required to reach it. It's already there. Focusing, to me implys some effort. No effort is required in meditation at least not in the way I was taught. There is no attempt to keep our thoughts out of meditation, it just happens, eventually.
Another aspect of our true nature, is bliss. A topic for another day.

Mm hmm......:eyebrow:

Well, I guess if it floats your boat, more power to ya! :D

I like silence, though. It's nice.....

(Jumping into the fray......)

According to don Miguel Ruiz, author of "The Four Agreements" wrote in another of his books ("The Voice of Knowledge") about what the 'true self' is. In a "nut"shell.....

We are each a product of all of our prior experiences....how we learned to behave as a child came from our parents....our experiences of success and failure cause us to define ourselves in a certain way ("I am good with numbers", "I am bad at tennis", "I talk too much", "I am too fat")....all the 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts' we have learned along the way.....our fears, our weaknesses, our hurts and our anger.....all have determined how we think of ourselves.

But deep down our 'true self' is not defined by any of these things. For all we know, we have learned lies about who we are and have come to believe them.

Think of how you saw yourself as a child....capable of anything....curious....joyful.... amazed at all the things we take for granted every day, because we have grown so used to them.

Getting in touch with your 'true self' is like stripping away all those lies and getting back to that place where you don't anticipate based upon experiences, but are able to look at everything as new and interesting and full of possibilities.

Hey, the guy wrote a whole book about this!

Meditation, if practiced regularly, allows me to stay more in the present, and not always be thinking about what happened yesterday or worrying about tomorrow. Living in the present allows us to more fully experience life, and observing rather than judging. For me, that results in being happier and more content.

Hey, the guy wrote a whole book about this!


That's a nice summary of the humanistic perspective. If you like the stuff, some good reads are Carl Rogers, Victor Frankl, and Abraham Maslow.

Victor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning" is particularly moving.....

I think it provides- a great sense of understanding for religion and science in general.

So, this is what I understand....

There is no point to meditation- The point is that there is no point.

You are not in control of everything- altogether consciously all the time. Or better yet, aware of its presence.

You are in complete control, but you are also at the complete whim of nature (Think large meteors-colliding into Earth breaking our civilization to pieces). What if? Why not? Everything that made up our world will remain. What laws would that be breaking (disturbing the peace? What is peace to a hunk of rock?).

I know that would be very terrible- The point is that anything can happen and what truly makes you YOU- never dies. You will never transcend what you are. All the time you need is at your fingertips.

Forget the abstractions, forget what you have produced you are, what you have done. (what have you done? Can you see what you were doing 5 seconds ago? Can you imagine anything in detail enough to reproduce exactly? this is not plausible)

You can do nothing w/o an equal and opposite reaction from nature.

You can see something you made, though....Nope, you put it together - you did not create the matter - you shaped the stuff into a particular form----contradictory to a "creator."

THINK OF WAVES IN THE OCEAN. THE OCEAN IS WAVING AND YOU HAVE A BASIC CONNECTION WITH EVERYTHING THE OCEAN IS DOING. YOU, YOURSELF IS OF THAT WAVING, RIPPLING... You are rippling, OR whatevering with the rest of the universe- though it may have never occurred to you in such a forward way.

You can perceive this as doing, or acting and reacting to many things- at once, which is not entirely pointless, but I don't know if it should be phrased like that. I favor the visual.

You are everything about you is you- you are beating your heart. You are growing your hair! You are synthesizing proteins. It's all you baby! Just let it happen. Your mind does everything it needs to on its own. Concepts will never bring much happiness or satisfaction. What is a concept? The number "2" is.- it's a very useful symbol- but is basically nothing more than an abstraction.

The ultimate understanding- is that nature is perfectly organized as it is- and cannot be any better. For example, Good- Better and Best are useful to an extent, but are not real and cannot themselves contribute to the great scheme of things.
Adjectives don't do anything- our idea of ourselves is an abstraction. We are expressions of our nature- where there is eternal purpose.

We live in a material world- which is misinterpreted often. Only buying new things can bring you happiness...My answer is whatever you think happiness implies- can only be that.

If you feel joy you are enjoying. You feel happiness therefore you can be labeled as happy (you are what you are doing).

Happy -adjective- it describes a certain pattern that is very conveniently put into a sound simply understood by most people. It is not something considered to be permenant state of existence. Happy describes an emotion or a thing who's context generally implies happiness. By looking at a happy thing, the mind is not beckoned, but inspired to feel cheerful as compared to feeling outrage.

Do you realize that I could keep going until I create a dictiorary through fairly logical inference w/ these silly and hardly knoweldgeable words?

By saying; Always being happy, along with the notion that this is impossible, while considering that happy is an abstraction=symbolic of a higher form: I have demonstrated the limits of language-

Which leads me to this:
That you shouldn't desire anything - Accepting your place in existence.

If you see that obtaining new toys as the supreme act of righteousness and will bring you happiness forever then do it as long as you feel that way. (You see?)

- I hope that makes a little sense.

above all else- YOU is a concept.

I am doing (vs) the action is doing me...

Your conciousness is the result of a series of actions which in the end is described as, "conciousness." The ego is an abstraction. To say, "I think" is an abstraction.

One more thing- is not to get caught up in baseless assumptions, abstractions=they are the evil. You just have to accept action and not deny it equally in order to get this surreal feeling of being part of what goes on around you in everyday life. I've always liked this; meditation is "digging the present, grooving with the eternal now."

SAKSMAN - I love what you wrote about silence and bliss. Sometimes actually music even helps silence my mind. I agree with you becaus I have been taken to that blissful state and it is quite beautiful. Those times and moments are what is somehow helping me grow as a person and feel comfortable with who I am. Which is a part of you, a part of the ocean, connected with all things. When our intuition begins to show us this it changes everything. Took my greed and selfishness and turned it into wanting to give because really I own nothing anyways. Everything is here for all of us. There is so much to it that I guess I won't even go into details but BOSEPHIUS I feel like I understood exactly what you were saying. I can here some metaphysics in your words I think. Not that I completely understand that but I am getting some awareness of it.

JOYOUS56 - I have read both of those books and I think that they helped me a lot! I guess because I grew up with a lot of religion that I thought was supposed to really help me in life and it wasn't. I look at things differently now about who I am and it's a beautiful thing. Because the same beauty in me is the same beauty in you and in every one we come in contact with. They just may not see it but it's there. When you can find it in yourself (which meditation helps me do) then I can see it in everyone else and in everything. The moon is brighter, the stars more beautiful, and each day one worth celebrating. So have a good one all you peeps! "people"

A lot of what I said, is what I've learned from Alan Watts and others I can't remember- Search his name on Amazon.com- he's really great and I didn't really do him justice. If you really feel like you want to understand meditiation and all that, just do it- don't give it a second thought. I think that I was very confusing...

Oh, just remembered a bit of insight! This is easier to understand...

Remember in meditation: You are not trying to arrive at a destination. It's like playing music or dancing. You don't play to get to the end of the piece- if that were the case, the fastest player would be the best. Dancing isn't a race to get to a certain spot on the floor. The dancing is the point. The playing itself is the point.

(Jumping into the fray......)

According to don Miguel Ruiz, author of "The Four Agreements" wrote in another of his books ("The Voice of Knowledge") about what the 'true self' is. In a "nut"shell.....

We are each a product of all of our prior experiences....how we learned to behave as a child came from our parents....our experiences of success and failure cause us to define ourselves in a certain way ("I am good with numbers", "I am bad at tennis", "I talk too much", "I am too fat")....all the 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts' we have learned along the way.....our fears, our weaknesses, our hurts and our anger.....all have determined how we think of ourselves.

But deep down our 'true self' is not defined by any of these things. For all we know, we have learned lies about who we are and have come to believe them.

Think of how you saw yourself as a child....capable of anything....curious....joyful.... amazed at all the things we take for granted every day, because we have grown so used to them.

Getting in touch with your 'true self' is like stripping away all those lies and getting back to that place where you don't anticipate based upon experiences, but are able to look at everything as new and interesting and full of possibilities.

Hey, the guy wrote a whole book about this!

Meditation, if practiced regularly, allows me to stay more in the present, and not always be thinking about what happened yesterday or worrying about tomorrow. Living in the present allows us to more fully experience life, and observing rather than judging. For me, that results in being happier and more content.


I liked some parts of that book, also, Joy.
Some of it..honestly..I haven't reached an evolved enough stage yet, as the author reached..but I'm always striving to reach...so I keep re-reading the book. And more and more..the parts that didn't make sense..do..later on.
Actually none of us have a choice, now do we? LOL !
Our soul either ascends or stagnates..doesn't it ?

Nova

Yes- to either ascend or stagnate--our souls are trapped in cages---only we can let them go.

And remember, you don't meditate to make yourself better- you do it b/c it's fun.

i guess i may as well weigh in here:

bowing is a physical act indicating respect. it is widely practiced in some cultures today, such as in Japan. bowing as an act of courtesy and respect was common among some European cultures as well up until quite recently.

as to meditation: the breathing aspect of this practice damps down the sympathetic nervous system which results in a calming of the individual. there's no hokus pokus about it. i suggest as a reference McCall's 'The Anatomy of Hatha Yoga'. the author explains the different sorts of breathing practiced in yoga and the effects on the nervous system.

For me, meditation doesn't work. I cannot stop my mind from thinking all the time (including mental tics) (although I nearly did once), I am not patient enough to keep it up (seeing as it doesn't work anyway) and I alwasy need to move - I cannot sit still because of the tics and that way, I kust feel stuck in my body all the time (feeling clumsy because of it). :(

Naomi,

I imagine tics would destroy one's ability to meditate. But, you're not alone. Not everyone is "receptive". There appears to be a continuum from very receptive to not at all that isn't related to much else.

For me, meditation doesn't work. I cannot stop my mind from thinking all the time (including mental tics) (although I nearly did once), I am not patient enough to keep it up (seeing as it doesn't work anyway) and I alwasy need to move - I cannot sit still because of the tics and that way, I kust feel stuck in my body all the time (feeling clumsy because of it). :(
This may just be my opinion here but that's kind of why I do mostly yoga or just dance around the room to my favorite song. Honestly, that alone takes me into a meditative beautiful state. I would say...don't feel like you have to sit there in lotus position to feel like you are meditating. Actually, I was the same way. I had ordered some stuff off of t.v. for depression and anxiety by a lady...can't remember her name right now. Her main thing was laying there and focusing on your breathing to calm yourself. Well, I couldn't do that for one minute! I tried yoga where you are moving (vinyasa yoga) where you keep flowing into different poses and focusing on your breathing. Now I can do that and also can meditate and be still without going crazy. I guess what I am saying is find something that you feel sets you free and makes you happy, practice it daily, do focus on your breath and breathing in love and light. I think that alone might give you insight as what to do next. That's what happened to me anyways.

if your hungry, eat
if your sleepy, sleep

what is mindless is near to the truth.

Over the years I can remember sitting in a therapist's office and trying to relax. I was told to close my eyes and breathe. Every time I couldn't do it, the hyperness of my mind and body would fight it.



Last year I saw a guy who got me interested in meditation. He had me read "The Miracle of Mindfullness". I would try to meditate for 15minutes twice a day. Most times it was a chore to do. But the book did have an impact as far as breathing and mindfullness was concerned.

Whenever my mind started racing, I would just breathe. I focused on the breathing and it would calm me down. I also learned to be mindfull of whatever I was doing. No matter how boring a chore was, I just tried to focus on that task. I accepted it was boring and gel with it.

I haven't done it in a few months and can feel the difference. I have to start up again.

al

Has anyone had the reaction of having anxiety/panic come up when they tried to meditate?

Scattered

I think I may have done a little bit once (possibly twice).

I've had that reaction several times in my counselor's office -- surprised him since he was having me do it to relax!:p

Has anyone had the reaction of having anxiety/panic come up when they tried to meditate?

Scattered
Yup, every time I had to do it in the office it wouldn't work. I'm naturally hyper, and now I have a guy telling me to close my eyes and relax? But when I took the book home and read it and understood how it worked, I wanted to try it. I had to do it on my own terms to find what worked for me.

If I was driving and getting hyper, I would try different breathing exercises till I found one that worked.

al

I've had that reaction several times in my counselor's office -- surprised him since he was having me do it to relax!:p
I agreee with Alkoz, I think after you can do it at home alone then it becomes easier other places. The doctors office though can make anyone on edge. But yeah, after ya kind of see how focussing on your breathing and meditation can help then it does seem to work in more and more situations. I was on a plane not too long ago and I had a slight hangover so when the plane took off I was thinking I was for sure going to puke all over the place. I sat back in my chair and focussed on other things and my breathing and it worked. People may have looked at me like I was a little nuts but that was better than being looked at because I was puking all over the place. :) At work now too when I feel anxiety coming on, I'll just stop and even stretch a little and take some deep meditative breaths. I don't even care if someone is watching because it's my freakin health I'm dealing with and I'm going to do what I have to to bea healthy and happy.

Had to say...way to go Steelers! :p

I do have better success at home and can do the deep breathing with out triggering panic, but blanking my mind doesn't work. I do better to focus on an image (IE: like the ocean waves) or the words to a inspirational song or Bible verse.

Scattered

Has anyone had the reaction of having anxiety/panic come up when they tried to meditate?

Scattered
Yes, once. It was probably the scariest experience I've ever had in my life.

I'm not prone to panic attacks, but it was early in my battle with bipolar disorder and hadn't been meditating regularly. If you are a regular meditater, you'll know what I mean when I say that I had a LOT of stray thoughts. One of them took hold when I was down pretty deep and I freaked.

The headache lasted 3 days.

You guys keep making me remember Alan Watts, here's something along the lines of his words,

You should not try to force the thoughts out of your head, in an attempt to quiet your mind; that'll just disturb it all the more. Doing that is like trying to smooth rough water with a clothing iron.

I like your quote, Bosipheus! It described my experience well!:)

And it's very helpful to practice this as well as common sense.

When you become aware you are having a hard time, settle down and also, stop doing whatever made you feel so frustrated, mad, etc.... (this has helped me). Doing something that has made you feel negative will continue to have the same effect everytime until you adopt a different approach to that situation....

Common sense is underused, IMO. We're all sinners.

This goes to my most previous post. Trying to force it- you have been trying to force it (which is the reason for the stress) which means that more, in this case is not better.

For me, this sounds too easy---and it is too easy---that's why it's so hard to do---For me personally, This is very difficult--but the more I practice this, the more I become aware of my negative thoughts---I see it as developing an understanding to what happiness, joy, feeling good really feels like (getting a feel for a reality in which there is no future, no past. Where there is only what I experience as I experience it)- You can always tell when you are in the present--negativity (getting a poor score or evaluation) and the unexpected (someone you previously dreaded to meet-confronting you, for example) does not have an effect this time around. Well, you wouldn't think it would once you became God.

It is easy to forget, according to my experiences. I found that calmness is one of those things- that are easiest and hardest to perform---This is not like soccer practice. It's not just once a day, but all day everyday-it's no session that's out of mind until the clock tells you it's time to take my medication. Every action and every thought should be adjusted to conform to your feelings.

Whatever felt good --was/will be/is-- best in that moment and could have been no different, nor can be changed.

This can be very hard- you have to be able to accept this, firstly- after that it's pie.

He who understands the Tao in the morning- sleeps easy at night b/c he knows that he can change nothing. The earlier in life you get "with it" the easier it will be to do- like all things.

I had a chance last night to use the breathing and mindfullness I picked up from the book. There's a part that I have to work on that has 50 small nuts, 50 small lock washers, and 50 small washers that have to be put onto little screw-studs. Because I have problems with fine motor skills, it was a half-hour of torture to put it back together. I would try to put the washers on with my left hand while doing the screws with my right hand. It was frustrating because I knew it would take a 1/2 hour and I wanted to speed it up.


Mindfullness: I would talk myself though it, I would say things like:
"I'm putting the washers on"
"I'm putting the nuts on"
"THIS is what I'm doing now"

When I started to get distracted and frustrated I would take a few deep breaths. The first couple of times that I tried it, it only helped a little bit, but since it DID help, I got some confidence in the technique. Doing this + the confidence made the results increase each time I did it.

So I'm not a true meditator, but I found some techniques that help out in real situations.

al

Very cool. Have you found any other exercises to keep you "present" and in the moment? How often do you do this drill? This sounds so simple, but it appears to get right to the core of the issues. I meditate and this mirrors the essentials of how it is for me.

I repeatedly bring myself back to a focus on a simple count to ten again and again. At first it resembles futility, but after the weeks go by, I slowly am able to attend to what I'm doing when I'm doing it much more effectively. Being able to do this opens so many doors for me.

I'd love to hear more of how this simple exercise has had an impact on your life.
Cheers!

I would try counting repeatedly or chanting, but I'm always afraid it will turn into a mental tic :(

But don't you always have the mental tics? What difference would it mean- if you chant or count, instead of thinking what time it is?

Maybe, could you give me a little defintion of what a mental tic is?

Very cool. Have you found any other exercises to keep you "present" and in the moment? How often do you do this drill? This sounds so simple, but it appears to get right to the core of the issues. I meditate and this mirrors the essentials of how it is for me.

It's the only system I've found that works. I'd like to say that I have the whole system down pat. Like everything else I do, I'm excited about it at first. After teh excitement wears off, I tend to slack off. When I get a chance I want to go back and pick up the book again.

I also use this when I'm driving. Since driving is so boring to me, my mind comes up with lots of material. Just thinking gets me wound up, so I use the breathing to calm down a bit. BTW, the biggest cure for driving boredom is the Sirius Sattelite radio my wife got me for Christmas. You can't get bored with all the available stuff to listen to.

al

Maybe, could you give me a little defintion of what a mental tic is?
Certainly :)


Mental tics


The existence of mental tics has only recently been recognised by the Tourette’s Society and other medical institutions. Not much is known about them, however, and very little is publicised in literature or on the web.

Mental tics are any conscious thought process or pattern that one feels a compulsion to perform. The word ‘compulsion’ is used here because mental tics are not quite the same as physical tics and cannot be defined as ‘involuntary, rapid or sudden’. They are involuntary, but seem to only come in complex form. They are therefore similar to compulsions, although not in the OCD sense. In OCD, obsessions are repetitive thoughts about danger. Examples may be: ‘I’ve left the gas on, we’re all going to suffocate.’ or the less logical ‘If I don’t tap this doorway three times every time I walk through it, my wife will die in a car crash.’ This thought then stays prominent in the mind until the corresponding compulsion is performed. Mental tics are obsessions, but not in an OCD way; they are any conscious thought sequence or pattern that must be completed correctly (in the same way a motor or vocal tic must). Distraction tends to be the best way of dealing with mental tics, but not in all cases, for example when they are less compulsion-like and more tic-like.

Probably the best way of demonstrating mental tics is to give examples:
(Since there are not yet any technical medical terms for mental tics, the prefix is shown here followed by an apostrophe).

Echo’
The mental form of echolalia. Those affected will hear the last few words spoken by another echoed in their minds. Echo’ also happens with music or any other sound heard. Echo’ appears to be a very common mental tic.

Copro’
The mental form of coprolalia. Copro’ is immeasurably less disruptive than coprolalia. The thinking of socially unacceptable phrases is mildly frustrating (worse when combined with pali’), but often sparks worries of a progression to coprolalia. Sometimes copro’ can only be controlled by a motor tic of the mouth. Sometimes copro’ is classed as part of coprolalia.

Pali’
The mental form of Palilalia. The repetition of one’s own conscious thoughts or spoken words. Pali’ can make reasoning and coherent conscious thought difficult. It can grab hold of a phrase or single word and repeat it many times before you can move on to complete the sentence, then take you back to the beginning and make you rephrase the sentence using different stresses.

Counting, listing, or reciting
Similar to having a tune stuck in your head and being unable to get it out. In this mental tic the tune will usually be completely stuck, but for some people, there is one way to get it out; if you mentally sing the song all the way through, with rests, major accompaniment etc. it will stop playing. But you have to get it exactly correct – one small mistake and your brain takes you right back to the start. A lot of people get tunes stuck in their head, but this is an obsessional need to take it all the way through. This tic also happens for poems or lists such as numbers, letters, colours or a repeating string of nonsense words. A person may need to count, for example in twos to two hundred, putting exactly the same emphasis on each number and mentally saying each number the same distance apart.

Mental manipulations
All tics have a sensory stimulus that triggers the need to tic, like an itch. In mental manipulations the stimulus is in a discreet area (like a ball) but is not on a part of the body, it is floating through the air. The mind has control (within certain limitations) over the movement of this ‘ball of itchiness’. Sometimes the need is to guide the ‘ball’ through a specific pattern. Other times the ‘ball’ is already moving, say in a circle or swinging like a pendulum, and the object is to stop the movement. It’s not as easy as it sounds; it’s like trying to stop a grandfather clock’s pendulum by tilting the clock from side to side. Another tic is when you need to push the ‘ball’ away from the body in a straight line.


I do not fully understand the 'mental manipulations' at the end there, but I have used a description from TS101, a fantastic homemade site about Tourettes Syndrome, made by someone with the disorder.

Of the above mental tics, I have echo', pali' and counting, listing and reciting.

Very interesting -- thanks for sharing that.:) Always learning something new here.


Scattered

I did want to mention a very good book on this subject that has helped me really understand meditation. It can be really misinterpreted. The book is called "This Light in Oneself ...True Meditation" written by J. Krishnamurti.

Been studying buddhism for the last year...pretty consistently... Doing insight meditation until last Tuesday...group of 3 including myself...Got to be a bit weird with one of the memberse of the group...Looking for a face to face sangha in town, and know of a great Buddhist sangha called E-Sangha...

Any Theravadins here?

Very interesting -- thanks for sharing that.:)
That's okay. Glad to be of service :)

would first like to say I've been practising ayurveda for 14 years. I had real bad I.B.S in my 20's and it cleared completely by using ayurvedic techniques. I went on to become an expert in martial arts which lead me into healing.
.I then learned T.M. which is an incredible experience. It was then brought to my attention that my 7 year old son may have ADD or aspergers syndrome and wasn't doing too good in school. His reading was terrible and he was way behind in all other subjects. I paid for him to do T.M. straight away. A year later he is top of his class in ALL subjects.
Some of the criticism i read of T.M. astounds me as it's mostly untrue. It saddens me that readers of these posts who are looking for hope and knowledge may be turned away from a gift so amazing as T.M. by the rubbish i have read on these posts.
The first thing that amazes me is that i know of no one being taught T.M. that has ever been asked to bow to maharishi. Ironically, if i was asked i'd do it gladly, because i do it every week to my kickboxing instructor before we begin...i bow to my sparring partners before we spar...then i bow as i leave the gym....its called "respect"...not worship. In Japan everyone bows as a show of respect...its an eastern thing..just seems to me that in the west people have a problem showing simple respect...its funny that bowing is seen as "worship".
Bringing flowers is also just showing appreciation for the gift of T.M.
I also know of no one who has ever been asked to give up sex or alcohol for 6 weeks before doing T.M....absolute nonsense!
Also the idea that anyone within the T.M. organisation being any way annoyed that you didn't bring flowers or calling maharishi any names is hilarious in itself! I'm afraid your only showing up your own predjuices.
T.M. has been subjected to over 600 studies over 30 years, all of which show there is something very special happening when one practises T.M. It has been shown to create more coherent brain wave patterns, which will be of interest to readers of these posts. So if your interested in learning more about it just email me and i will dispell all the silly myths.

For me, meditation doesn't work. I cannot stop my mind from thinking all the time (including mental tics) (although I nearly did once), I am not patient enough to keep it up (seeing as it doesn't work anyway) and I alwasy need to move - I cannot sit still because of the tics and that way, I kust feel stuck in my body all the time (feeling clumsy because of it). :(The brilliant thing about maharishi T.M. is that you can move around if you want! When teaching kids T.M., the instructors teach them to say the mantra while doing some other activity, like painting a picture, playing outside...whatever takes their fancy. T.M. is natural and is to be practised according to ones nature...and as everyone knows, a child is not going to sit still, it's nature is to be active and move.
Another myth is that T.M. is about trying to control your thoughts and empty your mind. When you practise T.M. you have all your usual noisy thoughts going on in your head...and there is no need to make effort to change this. Over time the mind settles down naturaly.
.My son learned T.M. when he was 7 and ive noticed that a year later he settles down now when doing it. He has aspergers syndrome, and tended to have jerky movements and couldnt sit still....now he has really settled down and instead of doing poorly in school, he is top of his class!
The reason T.M. may not work for people is because they are not learning maharishi T.M. which is about not straining the mind. If you are trying to sit still and control the mind and body, then you are going to produce strain which is counter productive.
I know that if you were taught T.M. in ireland, you would be encouraged to let your mind and body do what it likes while saying the mantra, because in time the mantra itself would lead the mind gently to a quieter part of your mind and the tics would settle down.

I'm way too sceptical to pay for something like that. I just don't believe that the essentials of life are something one can buy.
Cheers!

Some of the criticism i read of T.M. astounds me as it's mostly untrue.....
The first thing that amazes me is that i know of no one being taught T.M. that has ever been asked to bow to maharishi.
Well, I assure you that I don't lie. I have no reason to lie.

Whether you do or do not know anyone who has been asked is irrelevant; I HAVE.

This is no urban legend or friend of a cousin of a friend. This was MY experience.


....its called "respect"...not worship. In Japan everyone bows as a show of respect...its an eastern thing..just seems to me that in the west people have a problem showing simple respect...its funny that bowing is seen as "worship".
hmmmmmm.... Well, if I was just asked to bow that might be a valid argument. However, I was not just asked to bow. I was asked to get down on my knees, bow, and pray. The instructor didn't just bow to the shrine -- he prayed.



Bringing flowers is also just showing appreciation for the gift of T.M.

:confused: I fail to see how bringing flowers to a picture or a statue can be interpreted as just "showing appreciation".

Why would someone light candles and provide food offerings to a picture as a sign of respect?

IMO, it's unreasonable to expect someone to accept that such behaviors are "only showing respect".



T.M. has been subjected to over 600 studies over 30 years, all of which show there is something very special happening when one practises T.M.

There are absolutely no valid studies that show that there is anything different happening with TM than there is with any other form of self-hypnosis or meditation. Absolutely none.

You'll find that all of the studies that demonstrate some supernatural effect of TM were done by those attending or working at the Maharishi University....

If you believe I'm wrong about this, please cite your sources. I'd be thrilled to look at them. Nobody here has said it's a useless practice. We've simply illustrated the silly rituals that demonstrate conclusively that the "movement" is grounded in religion, not science.

ive found T M >. if ive read it right to be helpfull werath it really is something more than science remans to be seen but theres something thats for shore the qs is what dorm

T. M. is the branding of something that is free as air.

Very American.

Then again, everyone walks around here (SF) clutching their polyurethane bottles of pure mountain spring water like talisman, when the tap-water tastes better.

Selling water . . .

loo that be me then pagen lol dorm thanks stanzen

Well, I assure you that I don't lie. I have no reason to lie.

Whether you do or do not know anyone who has been asked is irrelevant; I HAVE.

This is no urban legend or friend of a cousin of a friend. This was MY experience.



hmmmmmm.... Well, if I was just asked to bow that might be a valid argument. However, I was not just asked to bow. I was asked to get down on my knees, bow, and pray. The instructor didn't just bow to the shrine -- he prayed.



:confused: I fail to see how bringing flowers to a picture or a statue can be interpreted as just "showing appreciation".

Why would someone light candles and provide food offerings to a picture as a sign of respect?

IMO, it's unreasonable to expect someone to accept that such behaviors are "only showing respect".



There are absolutely no valid studies that show that there is anything different happening with TM than there is with any other form of self-hypnosis or meditation. Absolutely none.

You'll find that all of the studies that demonstrate some supernatural effect of TM were done by those attending or working at the Maharishi University....

If you believe I'm wrong about this, please cite your sources. I'd be thrilled to look at them. Nobody here has said it's a useless practice. We've simply illustrated the silly rituals that demonstrate conclusively that the "movement" is grounded in religion, not science.
Ill deal with your points one by one. I'm sorry if it came across that i was calling you a liar. My point was that your experience of T.M is not what T.M is about. I was also referring to other people who describe T.M as a technique for controling thoughts or trying to create an empty mind. I should have used a different word like inaccurate...if one is going to talk about T.M, there is the accurate description of what it is and what it is about and there are inaccuracies. I do know that teachers gently lead the person learning to bow their heads along with them...not get down and pray. I'm intrigued as to what you were expected to pray as prayer needs words. Anyway, the point is that no one is expected to do anything by a qualified T.M teacher. You dont want to bow your head, no big deal. You are not expected to anything that creates discomfort as this is the opposite of what T.M is about....it wouldnt make sense to make someone uncomfortable in order to teach them a technique to create comfort!

Teachers are taught to teach the same way no matter where in the world they are. It seems you may have gotten a teacher who has their own issues when it comes to teaching because the proof is in your reaction to it. When taught as maharishi has prescribed, the effect is unmistakeable, which is why he maintains every teacher follow the correct way of teaching. This brings me to a side issue someone else brought up on this forum. Trade marking is a modern tool to keep something which is unique from being diluted or changed. It's not some sort of marketing ploy. Maharishi is only using modern tools of society as a means to an end. As you can see in your case, the teaching was diluted and ineffective and sadly turned you off what should have been a life altering experience. So there is good reason for trying to preserve its delicate power.

I'd also like to point out that im Irish and in Ireland we have a saying "Cead mile failte" which means 100,000 welcomes. As anyone knows who has visited Ireland, you can feel it off the Irish people how welcoming and friendly we are. That because our culture is thousands of years old and we are steeped in culture of healing and wellbeing.

We have been taught that when you go to someones house, you bring a gift. You may bring a bottle of wine and whether the person drinks it or not doesnt matter. The offering of a gift creates a good atmosphere...that's it's purpose. In the same way, bringing flowers to the house where you are learning T.M is the same process. It's simple and it is innocent. It is inaccurate to say that its for a picture. It's not for a picture...it may sound more dramatic to say that and if people believed that on a surface level then it achieves what i think your aim is...to disregard T.M as silly. As humans we've lost the trust in simple, innocent yet powerful rituals...which brings me to your next point.

Everyone, including athiests and sports people use ritual! It is a way of setting up your energy to make you ready for the activity ahead. A tennis player bounces a ball before serving....what is it's purpose? On a surface level one might say it's a silly practise. Ask the tennis player to stop doing it and his serve falters. The truth is that the bounce is used as a vehicle for focusing the mind effortlessly on the task ahead. This is ritual. To focus the mind effortlessly on the task ahead.

The purpose of the picture of maharishi is to focus the teachers mind effortlessly on the knowlege that he has handed them, so they can pass the knowledge onto you. This again is an innocent ritual. It's also meant to inspire. I watch the ultimate fighter reality show and in the gym they have pictures of the ufc legends to inspire the students. The word "inspire" is related to "respiration" and it's origin means "to breathe in" which brings me to my next point.

Our breath is What connects our minds to our bodies...this i learned originaly through martial arts(been doing Martial arts for 10 years). When our minds become distressed, our breathing becomes shallow and quick and triggers stress hormones to flood into our bloodstream. Our lungs only take in a small percentage of air and therfore we starve our body of oxygen. This situation, when continued over years leads to disease, or dis-ease....the mind at dis-ease with the body. Using breath to reunite mind and body results in health in mind and body. T.M is a simple and innocent technique which effortlessy brings about this reunification. But it is important to have within the room an energy which is conducive to experiencing what is a very subtle yet powerful experience...the experience of being. It makes sense to say that if one learned T.M in a crack den, one wouldnt have much of an experience!

Yes, it's true that this is your birthright which is why being a T.M teacher is a vocation. I'm not sure any T.M teacher is going to be millionaire. In Ireland, it costs 1800 euro for T.M. For that money, you get a teacher for life! They are their as a gentle guide for the rest of your life. Just to put that into perspective...the average adult in Ireland spends an average of 6000 euro a year on alcohol. If you start drinking at 18 and die at 60, thats 252,000 euro....on alcohol, which destoys families and over a long time breaks down the nervous system and liver. I dont hear many people question bar owners over the amount of money they make. 1800 euro gets you great health, improved mental accuities amongst other plusses. It's the best value ive ever gotten in all the purchases ive ever made.

You also make a point about "supernatural effects". I've never been near a maharishi university in my life, but i can heal people using my hands. I dont need to touch them, and in some cases i can heal over long distances by using a piece of a persons clothing. Would you consider this supernatural? In fact it is quite natural.

The laws of physics at a quantum level as recognised by physicists, recognise a phenomenon(ha ha..i had to stare at that word for ages to see if it was right...probably still isnt!) called "quantum entanglement". This is when you have a pair of particles, seperate them over a large distance, and they still vibrate or dance as if they were still together. it's as if they were communicating via some unseen connection. This connection physicists call the unified field. Its a field that permeates, therefore connects all matter. This is science. All the technology we've become used to is based on quantum physics: cell phones, microwaves, nuclear weapons, computers etc.

Yet the one unexplored area of science is human consciousness. Our mind and body is the most complex and powerful electromagnetic machine in the universe...this too is not conjecture but science fact. We've got thousands of miles of electromagnetic wiring inside us, the nervous system, and there is a whole science attached to it's natural and effective functioning. T.M is the science of this exploration.

Here's a thought for you....man invented religion, our creator invented the science of being. Religion is quite a conundrum...its an attempt to unite people in their individuality. That then is true religion: to gather individuals together in order to celebrate each individuals nature. I think this is what causes the whole religion/science debate. For if the laws of nature are observable by science, and our minds and body are a result of these laws, and the creator made these laws then religion IS science, science IS religion and neither is either! Ouch...brain hurts!

In my next post ill list some books and sources where you can get some knowledge and make up your own mind.
Oh...and i think where most cynics get their information on T.M not showing any difference than any other type of relaxation technique is from tests done in the 70's and early 80's where E.E.G equipment was the norm for measuring brain wave funtions and wasnt refined enough to pick up the more subtle effects of T.M on the brain. Since the advancment of computer technology and brain scanning equipment, there is more conclusive evidence to show the brain waves becoming more coherent in T.M practioners. Ill look up the sources of this for you. Sorry about the novel...hope i didnt bore.

Anyway, the point is that no one is expected to do anything by a qualified T.M teacher.
I'm quite certain that I attended classes given by a certified teacher, was taught the technique by a certified teacher, and did both at a fully-accredited T.M. center.

I know this because of the signs on the doors, who my father wrote the check out to, the amount he paid, the literature I was given, and the follow-up mailings I received as well as the recruiting visit for the Maharishi University...




You dont want to bow your head, no big deal. You are not expected to anything that creates discomfort as this is the opposite of what T.M is about....it wouldnt make sense to make someone uncomfortable in order to teach them a technique to create comfort!
Well, I'll give you this -- he didn't stop the lesson because I refused to participate in the prayer. However, since we'd paid for the lesson and were not informed about this "ceremony", this wasn't exactly an option.

I don't think that changes the fact that religious pressures were present. One isn't kicked out of church for not genuflecting, but you can be certain the Catholic religion expects it.



Teachers are taught to teach the same way no matter where in the world they are. It seems you may have gotten a teacher who has their own issues when it comes to teaching because the proof is in your reaction to it.
:confused: How is "the proof" in my "reaction"? This wasn't one teacher. This was the T.M. Center in a major metropolitan area.

Perhaps your experience is different because the organization has changed this process in order to appeal to a different demographic. My lessons were 25 years ago.


As you can see in your case, the teaching was diluted and ineffective and sadly turned you off what should have been a life altering experience.
Where did you get that idea???

The discovery of the effects of meditation is definitely a unique and interesting experience. The worship part didn't change that.

However, meditation takes about 5 minutes to learn and the technique could be sufficiently described in one paragraph. It certainly doesn't require 30 hours of classes and thousands of dollars.

In addition, there is nothing mystical, supernatural, or religious about it - at least there doesn't need to be. An athiest skeptic can achieve the same results on their living room sofa.




We have been taught that when you go to someones house, you bring a gift.
Um... this isn't an "Irish-only" tradition. It's common ettiquette in the U.S. as well.

Being 2nd generation Irish myself, and having many relatives that still live in your part of the world, I'm reasonably certain that it's not traditional to take food/flowers to an event one has paid to attend in order to offer it to an inanimate representation of a person who is not there. We're not talking about a dinner party here!



...to disregard T.M as silly.

Nobody here has "disregarded" meditation. We've accurately described our experiences and impressions of a multi-billion-dollar organization that makes outrageous and unfounded claims about the "power" of the practice.



Our breath is What connects our minds to our bodies...

I'm pretty sure it's the spinal cord that does that.

Breathing has nothing to do with T.M., anyway. Attention to breathing is used in other forms of meditation - some Zen, Lamaze (yes, it's just meditation!).... T.M. is built around the mantra, not breathing.




When our minds become distressed, our breathing becomes shallow and quick and triggers stress hormones to flood into our bloodstream. Our lungs only take in a small percentage of air and therfore we starve our body of oxygen. This situation, when continued over years leads to disease, or dis-ease....the mind at dis-ease with the body.

:eyebrow: When under stress, the sympathetic nervous system triggers homone and neurotransmitter activity, which affects heart rate and breathing, not the other way around.

The result of this is NOT a reduction of oxygen, and even if it was, there are NO additive effects of oxygen depletion over years! Diseases have MANY different root causes.



Using breath to reunite mind and body results in health in mind and body. T.M is a simple and innocent technique which effortlessy brings about this reunification. But it is important to have within the room an energy which is conducive to experiencing what is a very subtle yet powerful experience...the experience of being.
Okay, I started this post before I finished reading yours and now I see that my efforts are futile. Nevertheless, I put in the work, so I'm going to post it anyway.....



You also make a point about "supernatural effects". I've never been near a maharishi university in my life, but i can heal people using my hands. I dont need to touch them, and in some cases i can heal over long distances by using a piece of a persons clothing. Would you consider this supernatural? In fact it is quite natural.!!!! YES!!! It's CERTAINLY "supernatural" and I invite you to take the million-dollar-challenge!

If you can demonstrate that you indeed have this "power", the money is YOURS. Visit James Randi's website.



The laws of physics at a quantum level as recognised by physicists, recognise a phenomenon(ha ha..i had to stare at that word for ages to see if it was right...probably still isnt!) called "quantum entanglement"....
You've grossly misrepresented quantum physics and science if you're implying that you "heal" people because of "quantum entanglement".

There are many good books on the subject that discuss quantum theory in a somewhat layman-friendly way. I could give you some citations if you'd like.




Yet the one unexplored area of science is human consciousness. Our mind and body is the most complex and powerful electromagnetic machine in the universe...this too is not conjecture but science fact.

First, human consciousness is hardly "unexplored"! I can think of a pretty long list of people that would be offended by the implication that their life's work is not what they think it is. BTW, I could include myself on this list, depending on one's definition of "consciousness".

Second, the brain and body operate using electrochemical energy, not electromagnetic.

THAT is "science fact".



We've got thousands of miles of electromagnetic wiring inside us, the nervous system, and there is a whole science attached to it's natural and effective functioning. T.M is the science of this exploration.
T.M. has absolutely NOTHING to say about neural function, although there is research to support an altered state of consciousness when engaging in ANY form of meditation.


For if the laws of nature are observable by science, and our minds and body are a result of these laws, and the creator made these laws then religion IS science, science IS religion and neither is either! Ouch...brain hurts! That leap requires the acceptance of some supernatural being you refer to as a "creator". Science has nothing to say about that.


Oh...and i think where most cynics get their information on T.M not showing any difference than any other type of relaxation technique is from tests done in the 70's and early 80's.....
There's a big difference between a cynic and a skeptic.

I get my information from peer-reviewed academic journal articles that report the results of studies. I stay pretty current, since this is my field of study.

Oooops...i made a boo boo! I've been replying to you thinking you were mactavish....major apologies.

So there is no misunderstanding im going to tell you how i learned T.M.
I arrived at the centre, flowers were provided by my teacher. She did a short cermony which i was asked only to witness. Then i was given my mantra. After five minutes i started to laugh and laughed for about three hours after it. I had a stressful childhood, and it seemed that the T.M had lifted a good bit of it and i was laughing like a child again and it's been amazing ever since. I had four one hour instructions over four days. Thats it. No worship, no prayers.

I want to discuss the effects without science just for a second. I feel that science is based on observation...and observation with the senses is only part of our whole experience,so science will only ever scratch at the surface. For me, i have all the necessary internal software for validifying my experiences. I dont need science to tell me im hungry. I dont need to take my blood sugar level to make sure scientifically that i require food. In the same way i dont need science to validify the very real things that have been happening to me over the last 14 years. All i need is nature. Nature makes me hungry.

When it comes to healing, then the energy setup between the healer and the recipient is vital because thats what healing is....a transfer of energy. If the recipient is present for cynical reasons then they will set up blocks and will prove for themselves it doesnt work. A knowledgeable healer wouldnt work with someone like that anyway because healing is not some sort of showpiece. Unfortunatley this benefits hard nose scientists because its a self fullfilling prophesy. It takes two to heal, and if one shuts down then no healing energy gets across, and so you prove it doesnt work.The scientist walks away, writes his paper on healing and how it shows little or no benefit, and the healer gets back to helaing people who come to him with an innocent heart and wants to be healed. The healers experiences outways the clinical evidence. The healer knows all energy is linked at an experiential level...the physicist knows this at a quantum level...where's the problem?

Im not a scientist by trade,i just have an interest in it since i was a child so im not even going to compete with you! But if our nervous systems are electrochemical....wouldthe actions within our system set up a magnetic field around itself because of the movement of the energy? Educate me!

Again sorry for answering you thinking you were someone else...im sure some of my replies seemed puzzling.

About the creator thing. Ive noticed on these posts people are very sensitive about names of the creator....seems a bit mad to an irish man! Idont really care about names...im just trying to find a politcally correct name....what im referring to is the all pervading organising influence. But thats too bloody long to keep typing!;)

I'll end by saying that ive found it amazing over the years how scientists again and again have tried to make an experience of a phenomenon not real because it doesnt fit with the numbers on their pages. On the same hand, Healers and obviously some within the T.M. movement seem to be trying to aply their own agenda. The truth exists and can be experienced. I just would hate for either healers or scientists to destroy it.

Does meditation help with the symptoms of ADD to a large degree or just a minor degree?

I don't want to have to pay for meditation, nor do I want to change a religion. I also don't want to bother with getting a book and even trying meditation unless I can be guaranteed that it will work to a somewhat large degree.

Anyone here know?

Does meditation help with the symptoms of ADD to a large degree or just a minor degree?

I don't want to have to pay for meditation, nor do I want to change a religion. I also don't want to bother with getting a book and even trying meditation unless I can be guaranteed that it will work to a somewhat large degree.

Anyone here know?
Suprisingly, it doesn't help at all. It may provide relief while you're doing it, but it doesn't extend to normal states of consciousness.

That said, meditation is beneficial for many other things (like pain control, asthma, or to put the brakes on a panic attack).

Meditation doesn't require a book or lessons. It's a simple matter of self-hypnosis.

You can meditate quite easily by simply finding a quiet place, sitting in a comfortable position, and focusing on one specific thing (it can be a mantra, a sound -- like "oooommm" -- or your breathing). If you mind wanders - and it will - gently bring it back to the object. Do that for about 20 minutes. TM recommends 20 minutes twice a day, but whatever you can make time for will help you just as anything will that allows you to relax.

The healers experiences outways the clinical evidence.

:confused: Clinical evidence = the "healer" improved the "recipient's" condition.

The healer's experience outwieghs whether or not the person was healed by the healer? :eyebrow:



The healer knows all energy is linked at an experiential level...the physicist knows this at a quantum level...where's the problem?
The problem: Physicists don't "know all energy is linked.....at a quantum level". You're misrepresenting (or misunderstanding) quantum physics. In fact, you're misrepresenting/understand energy and energy transfer.


But if our nervous systems are electrochemical....wouldthe actions within our system set up a magnetic field around itself because of the movement of the energy? Educate me!
Nope. No "magnetic field" is constructed around neurons. Chemicals vary in their electrical charge and movement of those chemicals (due to a series of biological events that start with the receipt of input by receptors) produces electrical responses that produce more chemical movement, and so on and so on.

I can't "educate" you about this on an internet forum. Physics, biology, and what science is are not simple concepts. People spend years in school to learn this material. What I can tell you is that you appear to have a very common, but incorrect, understanding of what science is and what it does.

I am a scientist by trade, but that doesn't make me a cynic. Good scientists are skeptics, and skeptics are not cynics. Skeptics, by definition, are open-minded.

Skeptics sometimes appear to be closed-minded because they accept a conclusion after it has been repeatedly tested. Until new evidence to the contrary comes along, that conclusion stands. Skeptics do not draw conclusions (like, "this doesn't work") when something has not yet been sufficiently tested.



Again sorry for answering you thinking you were someone else...im sure some of my replies seemed puzzling.I never thought you mistook me for someone else. I was simply responding to what you'd written.



About the creator thing. Ive noticed on these posts people are very sensitive about names of the creator....seems a bit mad to an irish man!

People are sensitive about it because religion is a forbidden subject in ADDF.



I'll end by saying that ive found it amazing over the years how scientists again and again have tried to make an experience of a phenomenon not real because it doesnt fit with the numbers on their pages.
And we find it amazing how again and again people ignore counterevidence because it doesn't fit in with what they wish or hope the world is like.

Scientist NEVER try "to make experience of phenomenon not real".

Science repeatedly tests hypotheses until a hypothesis can be reasonably considered either correct or incorrect, and we don't use those terms because they are too final. Science is never final.

Science draws one of three conclusions:

The evidence supports the hypothesis.
The evidence does not support the hypothesis.
There is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion.
Lots and lots of things sound like they are the way of the world or make sense. That does not mean they are the way of the world. Science seeks to sift out the truth from these possibilities.

My son has what scientists would say is ADD and aspergers syndrome. He was 7.His school work was terrible. He never participated in class. He found it hard to socialise and make friends. He was way behind. I didnt hesitate in paying for T.M for him. Now a year later he is top of his class in all subjects, participates and is more "involved". This for me is "science". I feel a duty after what ive experienced,and what others in ireland have experienced to let people know that T.M. and ayurveda works.




Do you think i "wished" my son better? Do you think that T.M. and ayurveda which has been practised and verified experientially by billions of people over 5000 years is to be dismissed because scientists say so? I dont hope for the world to "be" particular way. It works because of the laws of nature. I need only look out my window to see these in action. No wishing or hoping is needed. This is the art of ayurveda. My son's mind and nervous system is in tune with the laws of nature and is reflecting it by being more orderly. THis is reflected is his school work and his social skills.



If im misrepresenting quantum physics, then so are the very physicists of which i've read, as most of the information i've read on quantum physics has not been from any maharishi source. A lot has been from a science magazine that i get in ireland called "focus".




My T.M teacher has 30 years experience as an ayurvedic physician. Im in regular contact with her and have been amazed at her experiences in that time. She knows how fantastic it all is by the reports from the thousands of people she has taught.So for you to be on this forum with no experience in this matter except your own, and to tell people who need help that there is not much to T.M is morally reprehensible. I hope i dont offend you, but the fact remains that people are looking for other peoples experience in this field, and the information is out there. It would disturb me if people were turned away from something amazing because of one person's view.




I will remain on this forum, not to seem intellectually superior but for the basic heart felt reason that our modern society has robbed us of answers and replaced it with cold science. Science will never solve our human problems. It is fantastic at insight but will never be able to "look" into the deepest level of the human spirit. The only instrument capable of that is the mind. It can reach places no microscope can.



So to remind anyone who wants to know about ayurveda and have questions, i will answer them honestly and de mystify the whole thing for you. T.M and ayurveda is not a religion so there's no need to worry about changing religions. When i have more time (by profession im in a band, and i do a lot ot touring), i'll list sources and books for anyone who wants to educate themselves further. Remember i have no other motive here than helping other humans.

I cant reiterate enough, that T.M must be taught properly. Sure, you can get a book on mantras and do it your self and you will get some effect. My friend did this, he practised a mantra for a while and then gave up. He then learned T.M and within minutes of being instructed had a profound experince which he never had when he tried it from a book. I also know of people who have been doing buddhist meditation for years and then did T.M and been shocked at the profound experience they have had. My girfriend learned yesterday and was terrified that it wouldnt work on her. She rang me after her first session, and to use her own words ,"that was mindblowing". As my T.M teacher says "it's either 100% right, or else it's 100% wrong".




I can assure people that ayurveda and T.M is practised and taught 100% correctly in Ireland. This is why every person who does it has a profound experience. I cant really vouch for any other country (obviously). I've been shocked at what some people have experienced in U.S.A...for that is not the core principle of T.M or ayurveda.

I may be mistaken in my scientific terminology but not in it's core principles. Science doesnt actually "do" anything. It just observes the laws of nature and its humans and their minds that "do". Just because some of the laws of nature are subtle and not observable using convential instruments doesnt mean they dont exist. Even marconi had problems explaining radio. At that time people couldnt concieve messages been transmitted wirelessly.



How can i be incorrect about the basics of quantum physics? e=mc2.....energy is matter, matter is energy. Energy is a fluctuation on an underlying unified field. It's called a unified field because it unifies natures forces: gravity, weak and strong nuclear force, electromagnetism etc. these forces then give rise to all we see. Ayurveda knew this thousands of years ago. Like i said, ill list some books for you.

Does meditation help with the symptoms of ADD to a large degree or just a minor degree?

I don't want to have to pay for meditation, nor do I want to change a religion. I also don't want to bother with getting a book and even trying meditation unless I can be guaranteed that it will work to a somewhat large degree.

Anyone here know?Yes. i know. I've listed my own experinces on this forum about myself, my friends and my son who has aspergers and ADD. It helped on my son. If you want to know more dont be afraid to ask.

I am curious because my boyfriend is interested in meditation as a form to improve himself (make him more relaxed and able to focus). He has slight anxiety disorder and I have ADD as well as OCD and slight depression. He has suggested to me that I do some of the excercises (deep breathing and sitting calm for a period of time) to help improve focus and alleviate stress. While I don't think it can help my inattentive type ADD, I do believe that it could possibly help my OCD which I know is anxiety disorder.

He has purchased a book (neither one of us want to pay for courses or have a "teacher"). He has also done some studies online and has been trying some of the suggestions made. He has told me that they seem to help him to not be so quick to anger at his work and has helped the stress level somewhat.

I figure that I will probably try because it certainly can't hurt me. If I can relieve some symptoms I have with OCD or even some of the ADD then that would be awesome.

My son has what scientists would say is ADD and aspergers syndrome. He was 7.His school work was terrible. He never participated in class. He found it hard to socialise and make friends. He was way behind. I didnt hesitate in paying for T.M for him. Now a year later he is top of his class in all subjects, participates and is more "involved". This for me is "science". I feel a duty after what ive experienced,and what others in ireland have experienced to let people know that T.M. and ayurveda works. A large number of alternative hypotheses that fully explain the outcome you've described. The most likely of those is MATURATION.


I dont hope for the world to "be" particular way. It works because of the laws of nature.
YEP. And those laws are discoverable. Science discovers them.

I'm not saying you make things happen by wishing and hoping. I'm saying you explain what happens by accepting evidence that allows you to believe you have more control over what happens than you actually do and by rejecting evidence that is counter to that belief.

It's called "the confirmation bias" and it's a human trait that drives most of our behavior.



If im misrepresenting quantum physics, then so are the very physicists of which i've read, as most of the information i've read on quantum physics has not been from any maharishi source. A lot has been from a science magazine that i get in ireland called "focus".A popular magazine's interpretation of quantum physics is not exactly a reliable source, but that's not actually relevant. It's how one interprets that information and go beyond it to explain things that one doesn't understand that usually leads to bad conclusions.



My T.M teacher has 30 years experience as an ayurvedic physician. Im in regular contact with her and have been amazed at her experiences in that time. She knows how fantastic it all is by the reports from the thousands of people she has taught.
"Fantastic" is a good word for this.



So for you to be on this forum with no experience in this matter except your own, and to tell people who need help that there is not much to T.M is morally reprehensible.
What's morally reprehensible is asking for money to teach someone something they can easily pick up in 30 seconds by reading a paragraph.

What's morally reprehensible is defending outrageous claims by assuming that those who question them simply "don't know" instead of providing evidence that those claims are valid.

What's morally reprehensible is encouraging people to redirect their resources from "proven" treatments to what is at best placebo.

What's morally reprehensible is to bury the facts in order to promote false panaceas.



I hope i dont offend you, but the fact remains that people are looking for other peoples experience in this field, and the information is out there. It would disturb me if people were turned away from something amazing because of one person's view.I'm certainly not offended.

This is not "one person's view".

I don't form opinions by picking things out of the air. Don't you think that, if doing something as simple as meditation would improve ADHD symptoms, I'd do it? Don't you think that, as a parent, I would rather have my child spend half an hour a day meditating than taking simulant medication?

You know what, now that I think about it, I AM offended.



I will remain on this forum, not to seem intellectually superior but for the basic heart felt reason that our modern society has robbed us of answers and replaced it with cold science.
"Cold science" has doubled our life expectancies, provided the childless with children, cured countless diseases, improved our quality of life 10-fold, produced enough food to erradicate hunger, and will eventually solve the environmental problems that industry has created.

I'll stick with science.



Remember i have no other motive here than helping other humans.
Nor do I.



How can i be incorrect about the basics of quantum physics?
Only you can answer that. All I can do is give you a list of books on the topic that provide the basics.

I didn't say you were incorrect about the basics of quantum physics. I said you were either misrepresenting or misinterpreting it.

Unified Field Theory does not extend to "remote healing" in the way you described. It simply doesn't work that way.

I am curious because my boyfriend is interested in meditation as a form to improve himself (make him more relaxed and able to focus). .... I do believe that it could possibly help my OCD which I know is anxiety disorder.

It can't hurt. Meditation is a form of self-hypnosis.

While hypnosis does NOT do many of the things it's famous for (mind control, super-human strength, improved memory), it is very useful for many things. I'll list them later in the post.



I figure that I will probably try because it certainly can't hurt me. If I can relieve some symptoms I have with OCD or even some of the ADD then that would be awesome.
I think it may be helpful with OCD, but you may have to use it "as needed" instead of at regular time intervals.

What hypnosis is good for:
- asthma
- pain relief (some can even have surgery w/o anesthetic!)
- blood pressure
- allergic reactions

and a few other things that involve the sympathetic nervous system. Unforturnately, ADD isn't one of them. It's a little surprising considering it's attention, but it's probably due to the same things that make hypnosis ineffective for things like substance abuse and weight loss - post-hypnotic suggestions don't work.

Attention is a "present moment" thing, so it can only be controlled while in that state. Once returned to a "normal" state of consciousness, the problems return.

But, I think you might be able to reduce your OCD symptoms by engaging in meditation when you feel anxious. If you can reduce your sympathetic nervous system response to the anxiety, you might greatly reduce the severity of your "attacks".

I should note, though, that people vary greatly in their ability to be "hypnotized" and to induce a meditative state. Nobody knows why; it's not correlated with "gullibility" or anything like that.

I have a hypothesis that ADDers are highly receptive to it, though, because every ADDer I know (including myself) are highly receptive.

Good luck!!

It can't hurt. Meditation is a form of self-hypnosis.

While hypnosis does NOT do many of the things it's famous for (mind control, super-human strength, improved memory), it is very useful for many things. I'll list them later in the post.



I think it may be helpful with OCD, but you may have to use it "as needed" instead of at regular time intervals.

What hypnosis is good for:
- asthma
- pain relief (some can even have surgery w/o anesthetic!)
- blood pressure
- allergic reactions

and a few other things that involve the sympathetic nervous system. Unforturnately, ADD isn't one of them. It's a little surprising considering it's attention, but it's probably due to the same things that make hypnosis ineffective for things like substance abuse and weight loss - post-hypnotic suggestions don't work.

Attention is a "present moment" thing, so it can only be controlled while in that state. Once returned to a "normal" state of consciousness, the problems return.

But, I think you might be able to reduce your OCD symptoms by engaging in meditation when you feel anxious. If you can reduce your sympathetic nervous system response to the anxiety, you might greatly reduce the severity of your "attacks".

I should note, though, that people vary greatly in their ability to be "hypnotized" and to induce a meditative state. Nobody knows why; it's not correlated with "gullibility" or anything like that.

I have a hypothesis that ADDers are highly receptive to it, though, because every ADDer I know (including myself) are highly receptive.

Good luck!!
My boyfriend and I were thinking that meditation is somewhere along the lines of hypnosis. It is good to see that we were correct. It will be interesting to see if your hypothesis is accurate. I never have considered myself recptive to hypnosis (partly due to I am