Dear fellow members,
Can anyone please advise me on this? My doc and I have experimented with several drug combinations to deal with my ADD/OCD/Anxiety. Below are my observations.

1.Strattera:
Benifit: NO racing thoughts.
But: Focus ability is erratic. I still zone out.

2.Stimulant(Dex)
Benifit: Good focus ability. I remain active
BUT: Anxiety increases.

3.Paxil CR:
Benifits: My OCD is under control. Anxiety is mild

4.Valium:
Benifits: My anxiety is under control.

5. Zoloft, Prosac,Buspar
OCD is under control. But anxiety is high.

Some say that taking a stimulant (an upper) in combination with a downer(valium) is not prescribed a great deal. Is that true? My doc said that there's no scientific backing on this, and it is only his "preference" not to prescribe this combination.

After experiementing with various combinations, I am currently taking 1,3,and 4. Anxiety is gone. but so is my focussing ability. I still zone out. Concentration is impossible.

My question is: Is there anything wrong with taking an upper and downer together? I mean, each functions on a different aspect of the psyche, right? Or how about taking the two drugs at different times in the day? I feel that I can function normally if I take 1,2,3 and 4.

Please advise. I am desperate to get my act together.

Sincerley,
M

In continuation to the above post, by Upper I meant "Stimulant" and by downer I meant "Valium."

Thanks
/M

If you take both of them...UPPER and DOWNER, they will cancel each other out. You have to realize as well that you are giving your brain two complete opposite substances. In my opinion, that can cause some anxiety in itself. That is, putting your brain in opposite sides of the spectrum so to speak.

Have you tried a stimulant alone?

I use to have severe anxiety, but stimulants settle my nerves (paradoxical it is) where

I don't need medicine for panic attacks because I just don't get them anymore.
You may need to give and take. If you can't relieve everything, do what is most important or makes you feel the best.

Good Luck.

They aren't commonly prescribed that way because your situation is pretty unique. How many people have this combination of symptoms and reactions to meds?:)

Taking depressants in conjunction with one another has additive effects, but taking two stimulants doesn't always. Likewise, taking one of each doesn't necessarily "cancel".

You might find reduced effects of one or the other or both, but you might not. Modern meds are pretty specific in how they work, which is why side effects are so reduced compared to many years ago. A dopamine agonist, like dex, probably won't interact directly with valium (which is a GABA agonist), but there may be indirect effects.

I'd take a good look at the drug interactions of each before trying the mix.

Ok...so "cancel" was the wrong way to put it. If you are combining these two types of meds, I think that it would be difficult for the person taking them to tell what is working and what isn't when you are taking them together. I understand they are acting on different neurotransmitters, when you are affecting GABA and dopamine, it is hard to distinguish between alleviating or exacerbating symptoms when used in conjunction for treatment of those three disorders.

Ok...so "cancel" was the wrong way to put it. If you are combining these two types of meds, I think that it would be difficult for the person taking them to tell what is working and what isn't when you are taking them together. I understand they are acting on different neurotransmitters, when you are affecting GABA and dopamine, it is hard to distinguish between alleviating or exacerbating symptoms when used in conjunction for treatment of those three disorders.
It wasn't the wrong way to put it; it's an accurate statement about some stimulant/depressant mixes.

My point is that individual meds, while classified as stimulants or depressants, act on different "systems" than other meds in same class. Nicotine, for example, is an ACH agonist. The interactions between nicotine and amphetamines are not as likely to be additive in nature.

In general, depressant combinations are additive. Putting one depressant on top of another will "double" the effect. But, stimulants are not always like this and the effects of mixing a depressant and a stimulant will depend on the individual drugs.

Yes, it's difficult to figure out what drug is having what effect and which ones are interacting. This is always a serious problem when making a "cocktail" and I often wonder how people can stand to live with such a mess. But, if the alternative was frustration, anxiety, and even less functioning, I'm guessing I'd do the same.

I am a college student and i currently take adderall twice a day. I also take 0.5 - 1 mg of ativan, along with the adderall, before i take a test or study anything that will provoke excessive anxiety. I have found that, for me atleast, the combo during these situations works great. From what i understand about the meds, the adderall increases dopamine and norepinephrine and the ativan increases the GABA, and from what i understand of ADHD, the adderall allows the person to focus due to the increase of dopamine and norepinephrine, which is not altered by the Benzo. The benzo increases the release of GABA which can have a sedation effect along with relief from anxiety. While the sedation might be a bothersome side effect since the dopamine and norepinephrine is still higher than normal concentration should not be effected other than from sedation.

I have successfully used this combo for 6 months and have found that i still have the effects of adderall, the ability to concentrate, and have successfully been able to decrease performance anxiety.

While stimulants are uppers and benzo's are downers, my understanding of the use of adderall is no to become overly stimulated and for my use do not consider then to be uppers in the doses that i take. While they do sometimes give energy, I don't take it for that and if the sedation of ativan counteracts that it doesn't bother me. I just have to be careful how much ativan to take to limit it's sedation effect while still being effective against anxiety

taking a stimulant (an upper) in combination with a downer(valium)


You guys are forgetting one thing BENZO ADDICTION , it is pure hell !

It is a combo that in time will do you in ... any Dr. that gives you this combo is a Dr. you should run from . Benzo's are only suppose to be taken for about 2 weeks max after that the addiction and tolerance sets in . Benzo withdrawal is worse than heroin ... it is hell .

What you are taking is just a legal speedball !

That is a pretty rough way at looking at things Mee.

To be fair, I guess we should ask a few more questions about the dosage and when he/she is taking them. I have never had any problems with Benzo addiction but i only take them as needed!!! I guess I can't contribute to the withdrawl especially that it is worse than heroin, never done the stuff. I know that withdrawls are different for different people, i never had "withdrawls" from lexapro but some people i talked to said they had horrible withdrawls.

I think that the way Mee wrote the above post is alittle mean and some of the information is personel advice scuued . The 2 weeks thing, i feel, that Mee states it as a fact when addiciton sets in is a little short. 4 months is usually the limit for the short-term treatment of anxiety, as in when a ssri or srni is still not taking effect with it. It is a great medication for anxiety and i have read many people on this forum's messages that i think they would agree. With that being said Benzo's are indicated for use for the treatment of anxiety disorders.

I think i should have added to my post about the addiction possibility, but i didn't because i don't know how she medicates with the valium.

I think the legal speedball thing is pretty horrible to mention and scare people with. I feel that scare tactets don't help anything.

Maybe give a personel example of withdrawl experiences and let Marsh007 and his/her doctor discuss what is the best way to approach this.

Marsh007, I would suggest talking to your doctor about fears of addiction because some benzo's have longer half-lifes, which is supposed to help with withdrawls since the drug is eliminated slower than others. How ever let me add that herions half-life is 3 minutes and valium is sometimes " benzodiazepines (http://copernicus.subdomain.de/benzodiazepine) such as diazepam (http://copernicus.subdomain.de/diazepam) (Valium) ease the often extreme anxiety of opioid withdrawal. Many symptoms of opioid withdrawal are due to rebound hyperactivity of the sympathetic nervous system, and this can be effectively suppressed with clonidine (http://copernicus.subdomain.de/clonidine) (Catapres), a centrally-acting alpha-2 agonist primarily used to treat hypertension (http://copernicus.subdomain.de/hypertension). Many addicts who have been through these programs say that the agony of withdrawal is very much attenuated." The symptoms of withdrawl are "Abdominal and muscle cramps, convulsions, sweating, tremors, vomiting" and if you think you might be addicted discuss it with you doctor and work out a reduction plan.

If it works for you and you aren't worried or experience anything like withdrawl symptoms then I don't think you have too much to worry about especially if you are only taking it once or twice every few days to weeks

Mee sorry if i offended you, let me know and i will take it out.

Ok friends, here is a very brief outline of my situation to clarify some issues here:

I was diagnosed with ADHD two yrs ago. I was given Addrall first. It was magic. Soon, the magic wore out in spite of increasing its dose to 60mg. Also, anxiety posed a problem. Zoloft/Prozac/Buspar was tried and abandoned in various combinations.

Then Ritalin replaced my Addrall. This was worse than before.

Finally I was medicated with Dexedrine while the anti-anxiety/depressants combinations varied as before. For a while, it seemed to hold, even though Dex dosage went up as tolerance developed. Evnetually, anxiety returned, and was hampering everything. My doc inferred that the culprit was the Stimulant. Enter Strattera. I was off Dexdrine. When anxiety still persisted, I was finally given Valium. The improvement though wasn't dramatic, was very significant. Soon, my thought process began to slow down and needed a kick start.

So, I was added a small dosage of Dex with all the above. Soon, anxiety increased, and dex was discontinued for good.
Currently I am DAILY taking Strattera(120 mg), Paxil CR(50mg), and Valium(1.5mg) Now, my anxiety has come down, and so have my racing thoughts. But the outflux of thoughts have become bleak now, reversal of racing thoughts.

I have had little or no creative thoughts, no ideas, and also, my academic performance is getting worse. I am trying to make up the lack of the stimulant by increasing coffee intake to three times a day, though I am unsure if that is a good thing.The outcome as of now seems just bearable.

So, I checked with my doc, if I could take a very small amount of stimulant along with the above as that would help kick start my brain. I mean Dex + Straterra +Paxil CR + Valium. He says that though there is nothing to prove that this can be harmful, his PREFERENCE is that taking a stimulant(upper) and then valium(downer) is not something he is willing to prescribe. Mind you dear friends, I have heard you mention that some of your take valium only as needed and not on a daily basis like I want to do.


Also a note about addiction/withdrawal:
I never understand this issue. I know that ADHD and Anxiety and OCD are some issues I have to live throughout my life. So, if the meds are working, why in the world would I need to stop that? If I get addicted, what the heck. Or are you implying that by addiction, I might end up needing a bigger and bigger dosage of the medication to maintain stability? Because of an increasing tolerance?

Please advice.
Sincerely,
M

Also a note about addiction/withdrawal:
I never understand this issue. I know that ADHD and Anxiety and OCD are some issues I have to live throughout my life. So, if the meds are working, why in the world would I need to stop that? If I get addicted, what the heck. Or are you implying that by addiction, I might end up needing a bigger and bigger dosage of the medication to maintain stability? Because of an increasing tolerance?

Okay, some clarity.

The term "addiction" in this context usually refers to tolerance. We will all like develop some tolerance for our meds at some point, but in addiction that tolerance is a slippery slope that moves pretty fast.

Addiction is not all that likely on such a low dose if your body is using the med to correct deficiencies.

Your history is a little bit messy. It's kind of like patching up the holes in a sinking boat. As soon as you've got one hole plugged, another pops up. What you need to do is take the boat out of the water and start over.

If I were your doc, I'd take you off of everything. Then, I'd get your mood and anxiety issues handled. Once those are stable, I'd add in a stimulant for ADHD symptoms.

I just don't think you can keep adjusting this and tweeking that and arrive at what you need. Start with one. Then add in another. If you need to tweek the first a bit after the second is added, fine. But the only way to find out what works is to isolate them some.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with barbyma, have you thought about being refererd to a pschicatrist. The Pshychiatrist i startted going to is great. He has not only been able to figure out what is the correct dosage for my meds but has and is currently addressing my anxiety and what is in store for it. Once again Marsh007, read the pdr and all info you feel confortable with. You choose the side from how you feel about the sitiuation.

Benzo's are indicated for use for the treatment of anxiety disorders. but should not be used long term trust me , just trying to help

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm#3

Mee,

I understand what you mean. The link you sent us is pretty informative, even eye-opening I might say about the long term usage of benzo.....

thanks/
K

but should not be used long term trust me , just trying to help

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm#3
This is an old thread, but I have a question? How did this link slip through? The site that Mee refernced is very biased. Mee, do you have any other agenda than to be anti-med? I have yet to see a post from you that isn't loaded with anti-med scare rhetoric.

If you want to have a job or do school, using Valium family drugs is a BAD idea.

Keeping a job and doing school both require short term memory, when you do your work.

People have more car crashes and bad falls on Valium family drugs too. (They are like drinking alcohol. Same chemistry in the brain, eh?)

Be careful. Valium can stay in your system for over 30 hours. Same with Klonopin AKA Clonazepam. I almost lost my life driving a car on Clonazepam in 2000 . Noone told me the metabolites and sub-metabolites, last so long.

Who wants a sleeping pill or panic pill that lasts 2-3 days? Scary.

For some people it may be just the stimulant used, I am best on dexedrine tabs myself but I have seen psychotic reactions from adderall (thinking bugs are under the skin) and then the same person on Desoxyn (methamphetamine) was essentially normal. People are different