I wasn't sure which forum to post this in, but since the experience I am trying to understand occurs most often with my wife, I thought I would go fishing here first.

My wife and I have a long history of home improvement projects done together. She has extensive experience with woodworking, I do not. She is very competent and sure of herself. I make a lot of mistakes and have a long history of being defensive about my mistakes until I reach a point when I figure out that defensiveness is not helpful. We have always had major hurt feelings when working together. Since my diagnosis, it's gotten worse...(I am willing to own a good deal of denial and bargaining on my part around this.)

I have a long history of mistakes when it comes to home maintenance. I am the guy who forgot to check the gutter problem which led to the roof leak, left the lid off the rice canister which led to the moth infestation--and lots more! (I just now when writing this had the curious, but common experience for me, of trying to recall and recite a long list of past mistakes, but that is the curse and blessing of ADHD--I can temporarily forget!) OK, just trust me that I've screwed up a lot. My wife can give a complete rundown if I need one.

Now that I'm working out my ADHD treatment, I've got insight into a long-term dynamic. A typical weekend project day is now following this pattern:

1. Day begins with high hopes and positive expectations.
2. Work is successful for about an hour.
3. I make a mistake. Wife points it out. I keep working, make cascading series of minor mistakes, also pointed out.
4. I begin to criticize myself. At this point, if I am aware of it, I can take a break, breathe deeply for about 10 minutes, and then return to the project more centered. But about 50 percent of the time, this happens instead:

My wife says, hey, no fair--she's working without a break (she rarely takes them) so why should I get a break?

Wanting to prove that I can keep up, I forgo the break and keep working. I cycle through steps 1 through 4, above, experiencing the ADHD pattern of "the harder I try, the worse it gets."

I become even more distracted and clumsy until something happens and it's like the number of mistakes I've made has reached the saturation point and I have a meltdown--my wife calls it a tantrum. At this point, I've lost perspective. I make a particularly sarcastic remark, or, more dramatically, provoke a yelling match ending with slammed doors, hurt feelings all around, and remorseful apologies from me to a thoroughly ticked-off woman who is trying her best to get the project done fast so that the whole weekend won't be wasted.

The solution seems obvious--take a break, stupid. It works. But for some reason my testosterone overrides my knowledge of my ADHD and I competitively hang in there to prove I'm no wimp until I'm like Wile E. Coyote running off the cliff and pausing in mid-air until he notices his condition and falls to the bottom of the canyon.

I have asked my wife to monitor me and given her permission to give me a "time-out". (She, wisely, does not want to be a mother to a 41-year-old man and does not want to have to monitor my emotional state. It's up to me to be an adult and I accept that.)

Does anyone else have a similar experience or any insight about what to do when you know what you need to do in order to stay sane and in control of your ADD but ignore it for one reason or another until it becomes a relationship-killer?

I'm not allowed near sharp objects or potentially explosive substances; even tho I 've had extensive childhood experience with the latter.

Go figure.

Good luck and welcome to the Forum:)

Is there such a thing as a successful home improvement project? I think that's why they have these speical people called handymen/women (pc don't you know).

I've spent many years of the yelling matches and living in a house of perpetual construction. I know now that instead of getting upset about it, I'll just save up the money, swallow my pride, and pay someone to do it instead :) Problem solved and it gives me the weekend to do something that makes ME happy :D

My wife built our deck. I had no part in it except carrying some of the heavy stuff for her (she got a local shop to deliver everything). I wanted to hire somebody, but the lowest quote we got was $5,000, and my wife built it for about $1,500 (from a kit, but still).

It's funny, because people will come over and assume I built the thing. They'll say how long did it take you to build it, and I'll say it didn't take me any time at all, because my (5', 110 lbs.) wife built it. :D (I'm 6'3", 235 lbs...)

On the other hand, at our Christmas party everyone kept complementing my wife on her great cooking, when I was the one who cooked everything. But when people would come up and say wow, your wife sure can cook, I'd say yeah, she can (strictly true).

The point I am trying to make in my own rambling way is do what you're good at, accept your limitations, and keep some humor about things (you seem to have this part down), and things will go a lot smoother.

Thanks for the perspectives...

I'm trying to figure out how to focus on what I do well. I'm also trying to figure out how to respond to this perception offered by wife after today's basement reorganization death march that ended in hurt feelings:

IF I know that I have ADHD and know its effects, and
IF I am taking my medication, and
IF I have been shown how to do something/store something/remember something,
THEN I should have NO EXCUSE for making the same mistake again.

My wife's comment after the same old, same old spiral into my meltdown following her pointing out the same old, same old mistake of me putting the garden tools and buckets away wet:

"There is no explanation for you doing this--AGAIN--than for you to say that you hate me and are trying to punish me by making my life difficult!!"

That's what's so maddening to me about ADHD: I keep doing the same dumb thing over and over. I can mitigate some things to minimize damage but there is a whole universe of things out there that I probably have resolved never to screw up again--and I will screw them up again the next time I encounter the same situation because I have forgotten the last time I screwed it up.

I know that that diagnosis, medication, and skill building is just the beginning. I just wish I had a screw-up detector that would flash a light when the next impending mini-disaster is on the horizon.:D

Addendum: I've noticed that medication (I'm on Concerta) helps me be aware of the mistakes I've made and their effects on people--it's raised my level of awareness to where I'm not forgetting (as much) mistakes. That's been the source of a lot of self-criticism. Now, as for predicting the effects of an action....well, I'm working on it.

Lol ,your comments make me laugh
I am a tradesman and I am a perfectionist ,the wife could'nt lay a candle next to me ,but then I would use her for a strong point ,not try and battle her in something I exel -would you treat or teach your kids this way ?
handymen -Pooh Pooh,service techs better be super competant when they arrive ,sent too many packing
I can cook up a storm also ,I suppose I would just like someone who compliments me on a job well done instead of what have you done lately :eek:

. I just wish I had a screw-up detector that would flash a light when the next impending mini-disaster is on the horizon.:D



We could make millions off this invention ,every guy who has been involved romanticly with a woman before would buy it ,we could make them cheap so they break and then come out with slightly better but not perfect better models :D

Well it seems that you are trying to do something right and it seems that your wife is a little fed up. I know that at some point people say that I can't use my ADD as an excuse but what can I do if it causes me to do some stuff (like say before think, I try not to do it but it's not going to come out 100% perfect). Even though your wife doesn't want to be your mom which is totally understandable but maybe she can try to forget some of the stuff you did before. If you are trying to start up from scratch she needs to be at the same point. I mean by constantly reminding you of your screw up is not going to help you avoid them. And i think you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to do well, and i know that when someone puts pressure on me i don't do well. I try to wlak out of it when I can. So for example before final exams I started going through a little ritual, when I repeat to myself that I know my stuff, I've studied and this cna't be so bad. And that if I fail it's not going to be the end of the world.
So I guess the point to all of the above is that know that you can do it and be strong about it. If you are going for a break, ask your wife to come with you. Or at least ask her not to critisize you for going so that you would feel better. After all you are trying to safe everyone's feelings, so it's a good thing for you to take a break. Maybe you can bring her something from the kitchen (like snack or tea) and you can both take a tiny break.
I think i am forgetting what else i wanted to write :) but i'll add it later if i forget.
GOOD LUCK!

Can a lady join this fizzies party? <g> I looked up top to double-check this wasn't a guy-only section before I posted so I think I am safe, but I'm always willing to hear I made a mistake from reading too fast.

Anyway, wow, this whole thread hit home. It was so helpful to me "Systems" (can I call you ST?) to hear what it feels like inside when you lose your temper over hurt pride. In my head, I knew that was probably happening at our house too. But my own male residents (spouse and son) are not nearly as eloquent as you at putting such feelings in words. Like your wife, I too, have used the word "tantrum" to describe it at times.

But that's about as far as I think I resemble your wife since this whole family is full of adults with ADD which makes it both better and worse, actually. It's a hoot when I am not in the thick of it to stand back and notice how often we change places in the stereotypical gender thing; he's much more likely to catch the small details that sail by me, while I am more attuned to the big picture context than he, especially when he's tightly focused on his specifics.

The fact that we both have our, um, spit, around issues like this helps a lot. We get to take turns feeling superior {big grin}. More seriously, it does promote a teamwork thing when you can both see your quirks and start to feel lucky that someone has your back in the places you're weak and v.v. Not that it ends all the bickering, especially among the more sensitive. But it does help us sit down after the dust clears and repair the damage with some kind of mutual affirmation.

That's what I miss the most when I listen to your story ST -- a sense of mutuality on the affirmation side. You said in another post somewhere that you had a good career, a good parental relationship, and some other things to be very proud of, but it seems, at least superficially, you get faulted for your shortcomings a lot more often than you hear applause for the good parts, and now you're taking it completely to heart to the point where it derails the genuine progress you are making now that you have the meds.

For whatever it's worth, the comments you repeated from your own spouse sounds as if she is a "tight focusing" thinker herself who can be pretty literal and concrete ("all people with mental diagnoses are unreliable" by definition? Give me a break!). When you make those if/then lists, it sounds like the black and white pronouncements of someone who struggles with nuance and proportionality. If so, you have my sympathies, since dealing with any kind of mental issue, whether depression or anxiety or anger or ADD takes a high tolerance for complex ambiguity and the ability to look at things in context, by degree. Perhaps you can help her see she needs to develop some of that more flexible thinking at the same time she demands more precision from you?

Couples counseling could, I suspect, help with a lot of this, as a good therapist will be aware that there are issues to be addressed on both sides of any marital partnership.

Have you let your wife know about how you feel when you're workingon the projects. If she enjoys it and you don't, the projects and a HOBBY for her and a CHORE for you. Everyone approches the two very differently.

I also think that critisism promotes screw-ups. let her know before you start a project that unless it is an expensive problem, to let you handle it. she might also provide some specific instruction on how she wants things done. If she is pointing out all of the things she wants done differently, she is treating you like her 41 yr old child.
I've recently been working on this is in therapy because I was doing way too much for my husband and now I catch myself before I treat him like one of the kids. I think women who are very competent have this problem somehow. We just do it and then complain that our hubby's didn't without giving them a chance to do it successfully. We expect our spouses to be competent in the same things we are rather than using our differences as a strength and blending them together.:soapbox:

enough of the soapbox...and good luck on the projects.

Since my last posts, I've actually come up with some things that work with this dynamic.

The first realization for me is that I rarely fly off the handle like this in a work situation. (True, I feel I have more control because I'm usually the manager in a situation and, true, taking breaks is an accepted part of worklife--legally mandated, actually.) What is keeping me "adult" at work, I asked myself? Quite simply, I know how to act like a "professional" (after much practice) and I have devised ways to hide aggravation, to blow off steam, or to add humor to an uncomfortable interaction without losing composure.

So, lesson 1 for me: Pretend--"act as if"-- I'm a professional when I need to do something productive--at work AND at home.

The second realization came from my psychiatrist, who has interviewed both my wife and myself together regarding my ADHD. She (my shrink) pointed out to me that my wife exhibits a fair amount of controlling behaviors that are probably based on her own anxiety and self-esteem issues. That is one reason why working together dysfunctionally sometimes (often) leads to escalating interactions. My shrink said that I need to look at other aspects of my marriage to see if there are some behaviors exhibited by my wife that border on abusive control (like control of finances, putdowns, etc.) There are many things for me to consider here... Most helpfully, though, was the validation from a third party that my wife has certain behaviors obvious to others that make harmony difficult--"it takes two to tango". It's not only just about me.

Lesson 2: My wife is probably dealing with issues of her own. Open your eyes, dude, and be empathetic about someone else's reality without getting down on yourself.

The third realization comes from my intermittent pursuit of a meditation practice for the last 2 decades (and which I have recently decided is essential for my mental health, so I am practiciing more diligently now.) It is this: I can train myself to observe my mental state and emotional reactions with detachment. (Some ideas from Cognitive Therapy are useful here, too.) I use my experience with my wife as an extension of my meditation.

Lesson 3: I can pay attention to my mental state, observing the rising and passing away of emotions, non-defensively own my ADHD-generated lapses, and take appropriate action from a detached vantage point. (Still, lots of practice needed here!)

Thanks to all for your perspectives on this mini-drama!

... So, lesson 1 for me: Pretend--"act as if"-- I'm a professional when I need to do something productive--at work AND at home. Exactly! Yes! Bravo for getting to that lightbulb on your own.

..(my shrink) pointed out to me that my wife exhibits a fair amount of controlling behaviors that are probably based on her own anxiety and self-esteem issues. I was sensing that subtext in your story; glad your shrink confirmed it for you and that you are being advised by someone who sees BOTH sides!

My shrink said that I need to look at other aspects of my marriage to see if there are some behaviors exhibited by my wife that border on abusive control (like control of finances, putdowns, etc.) There are many things for me to consider here... Most helpfully, though, was the validation from a third party that my wife has certain behaviors obvious to others that make harmony difficult--"it takes two to tango". It's not only just about me. Exactly again. Marital issues take two by definition. But it's hard to hold on to that sense of things without some third party confirmation.

Lesson 2: My wife is probably dealing with issues of her own. Open your eyes, dude, and be empathetic about someone else's reality without getting down on yourself... The third realization comes from my intermittent pursuit of a meditation practice ... I can train myself to observe my mental state and emotional reactions with detachment... Lesson 3: I can pay attention to my mental state, observing the rising and passing away of emotions, non-defensively own my ADHD-generated lapses, and take appropriate action from a detached vantage point. (Still, lots of practice needed here!)
Another set of excellent insights here that were worth a long re-quote {g}.. you are really on the right track with all the above. And I'm willing to wager as you shift your reactions her triggers might shift as well.

Let us know what helps more and less as you progress!