Hello,

First, I want to apologize for the lenght of my post. I'm hoping someone out there is maybe familiar with what I have to say and can provide some direction.

My main problem is I've always found it difficult to learn new things. In order to learn something new, I have to take it upon myself to learn it alone with repetition. The main reason I struggle to learn in a classroom is I can't remember what the teacher/professor has presented to help solidify his point. I can learn fairly well on my own (I graduated high school as the valedictorian and college summa cum laude). Unfortunately, the new material I learned generally leaves me within 2 or 3 weeks, and I have very poor recollection of it. Something I knew and could explain well last week may now seem unfamiliar.

At my current job, I’m being exposed to new things everyday, so my supervisor (mentor) has to teach them to me. Problem is, what he says goes in one ear and out the other, so I have to take it upon myself to learn it. Had I followed what he said, I would be a much more efficient student. Not only can I not remember what he says, but I find it difficult to listen to what he has to say even though I know it's important. The major problem is he’ll refer to something he just said 20 seconds ago, and expect me to be able to cite an example or answer a question he’s posed, and I can’t.

I suppose my working memory is terrible. It’s not uncommon for me to work on a project for a client and go to my supervisor for guidance just to find that I can’t recall the name of the client I’ve spent the last 2 hours working on! If you give me time, I can recall it, but it takes me a while. As far as anxiety goes, he’s not at all intimidating, so I don’t know if that’s the problem or not. Also, I often forget what I was just doing. E.g., if I come across something and have to research it, I’ll go to a book and be unable to remember why I picked up the darn book! This is a MAJOR problem for me. I'm just not focused on what I'm doing, I guess. As I'm picking up the book, I'm thinking of something else. As far as whether I’m qualified to do the work (i.e., whether I’m plain stupid), I’ve passed the first 4 exams required to obtain a designation in my field. Each of the exams has a 35-40% pass rate.

I’ve always struggled to recall words. This is a big problem for me. If I want to recount a story or explain something, I end up looking like an idiot because I struggle to articulate what I’m trying to say. These aren't necessarily large words, either. I forgot fairly simple phrases and simple words/combinations of words ("tail pipe," "huff", "awoke", for example). Not only can I not recall words, but I can’t present the story in an “appropriate” manner to help make it understandable. I struggle to go from point A straight to point B without first running over to C and maybe E, if that makes any sense (note that C and E aren’t necessarily unrelated). I don’t work linearly if that’s an applicable term. I struggle to correctly form my sentences to make them coherent. Instead of saying something simply, I have to complicate it, and end up screwing it up.

As far as reading goes, I struggle with reading comprehension. I can’t just read something once, as I don’t generally glean from it what is necessary in order to fully comprehend it. If there are names or locations, I have little hope of remembering them.

I've suffered from depression since grade school, though never really severe (more dysthymic than anything). I also don’t do well socially, though I don’t enjoy solitude. I welcome compansionship/friends, it's just awkward and unnerving. I feel as if I'm aimlessly walking around in a fog. And, I’ve always been prone to developing habits/tics. One that has stuck with me is my need to wave something (anything) in front of my eyes. Don’t know what that means. This paragraph is more of a "let me say what I've not said yet" kind of paragraph - I'm not suggesting what I've mentioned here is interrelated.

I've seen two psychiatrists (had to leave the first one because I relocated). I've taken Ritalin, Ritalin LA, Adderall, Adderall XR, Straterra, Provigil, Wellbutrin XR, Nopramin (despiramine), Effexor, Lexapro, Concerta, Prozac, Dexedrine (long lasting), and I'm currently taking Depakote. When I took the Provigil, Ritalin, and desipramine, it was difficult for me to think - plus, I suffered an even greater loss for words and recall. I started the Depakote Jan. 9, and it seems to be doing nothing (if not making matters worse). Ritalin (regular and LA) is especially bad for putting me in an awful mood and making it difficult for me to communicate and think. I think maybe my anxiety is the root of all of my problems. I'm very irritable and moody-I can be fun and loving one second and angry over something frivolous the next. Could it be ADD or something else? :eek:

Thanks for your opinion!

ms244

Asking us to diagnose you us kind of like the blind leading the blind. I won't attempt to say "you have this or that".

However, you did describe features of ADHD, anxiety, OCD and possibly PDD.

If you have never mentioned these things to your therapist or psycologist, you should simply print out your posting and had it to them and see what they think.

You may find it useful to have a full neuropsychiatric evaluation performed.
That usually encompasses testing a variety of neurological and psychiatric variables
and will give you some better insight into what it is that you are dealing with.

good luck

ME :D

Hello,

First, I want to apologize for the lenght of my post. I'm hoping someone out there is maybe familiar with what I have to say and can provide some direction.

My main problem is I've always found it difficult to learn new things. In order to learn something new, I have to take it upon myself to learn it alone with repetition. The main reason I struggle to learn in a classroom is I can't remember what the teacher/professor has presented to help solidify his point. I can learn fairly well on my own (I graduated high school as the valedictorian and college summa cum laude). Unfortunately, the new material I learned generally leaves me within 2 or 3 weeks, and I have very poor recollection of it. Something I knew and could explain well last week may now seem unfamiliar.

At my current job, I’m being exposed to new things everyday, so my supervisor (mentor) has to teach them to me. Problem is, what he says goes in one ear and out the other, so I have to take it upon myself to learn it. Had I followed what he said, I would be a much more efficient student. Not only can I not remember what he says, but I find it difficult to listen to what he has to say even though I know it's important. The major problem is he’ll refer to something he just said 20 seconds ago, and expect me to be able to cite an example or answer a question he’s posed, and I can’t.

I suppose my working memory is terrible. It’s not uncommon for me to work on a project for a client and go to my supervisor for guidance just to find that I can’t recall the name of the client I’ve spent the last 2 hours working on! If you give me time, I can recall it, but it takes me a while. As far as anxiety goes, he’s not at all intimidating, so I don’t know if that’s the problem or not. Also, I often forget what I was just doing. E.g., if I come across something and have to research it, I’ll go to a book and be unable to remember why I picked up the darn book! This is a MAJOR problem for me. I'm just not focused on what I'm doing, I guess. As I'm picking up the book, I'm thinking of something else. As far as whether I’m qualified to do the work (i.e., whether I’m plain stupid), I’ve passed the first 4 exams required to obtain a designation in my field. Each of the exams has a 35-40% pass rate.

I’ve always struggled to recall words. This is a big problem for me. If I want to recount a story or explain something, I end up looking like an idiot because I struggle to articulate what I’m trying to say. These aren't necessarily large words, either. I forgot fairly simple phrases and simple words/combinations of words ("tail pipe," "huff", "awoke", for example). Not only can I not recall words, but I can’t present the story in an “appropriate” manner to help make it understandable. I struggle to go from point A straight to point B without first running over to C and maybe E, if that makes any sense (note that C and E aren’t necessarily unrelated). I don’t work linearly if that’s an applicable term. I struggle to correctly form my sentences to make them coherent. Instead of saying something simply, I have to complicate it, and end up screwing it up.

As far as reading goes, I struggle with reading comprehension. I can’t just read something once, as I don’t generally glean from it what is necessary in order to fully comprehend it. If there are names or locations, I have little hope of remembering them.

I've suffered from depression since grade school, though never really severe (more dysthymic than anything). I also don’t do well socially, though I don’t enjoy solitude. I welcome compansionship/friends, it's just awkward and unnerving. I feel as if I'm aimlessly walking around in a fog. And, I’ve always been prone to developing habits/tics. One that has stuck with me is my need to wave something (anything) in front of my eyes. Don’t know what that means. This paragraph is more of a "let me say what I've not said yet" kind of paragraph - I'm not suggesting what I've mentioned here is interrelated.

I've seen two psychiatrists (had to leave the first one because I relocated). I've taken Ritalin, Ritalin LA, Adderall, Adderall XR, Straterra, Provigil, Wellbutrin XR, Nopramin (despiramine), Effexor, Lexapro, Concerta, Prozac, Dexedrine (long lasting), and I'm currently taking Depakote. When I took the Provigil, Ritalin, and desipramine, it was difficult for me to think - plus, I suffered an even greater loss for words and recall. I started the Depakote Jan. 9, and it seems to be doing nothing (if not making matters worse). Ritalin (regular and LA) is especially bad for putting me in an awful mood and making it difficult for me to communicate and think. I think maybe my anxiety is the root of all of my problems. I'm very irritable and moody-I can be fun and loving one second and angry over something frivolous the next. Could it be ADD or something else? :eek:

Thanks for your opinion!

Thanks for responding. :)

I have mentioned all of this to my psychiatrist, but it doesn't appear to have gotten me anywhere. I was just wondering if maybe there's someone out there who sees something he's overlooked; just wishful thinking, I guess.

Thanks!

ms224,

Ditto on Speedo's blind leading the blind with an attempted diagnosis. I tell you this though. Your post described me to a tee and I'm "certified" ADHD.

I was on antidepressants but ADHD is the root of all my mental woes. Once I got the ADHD under control, I became for the the first time in my 54 years on the planet emotionally stable.

Adderall helps manage my ADHD. But if I did not work on coping skills I don't think it would help at all. Here's why: Adderall restores my ability to keep thoughts in working memory. That ability or lack thereof was why I had most of the same problems you expressed. Think of it. To comprehend the printed word, we have to keep the first sentences of a paragraph in RAM so the following sentences can complete the thought. I don't have memory problems but I can't remember what is said cause the ol' brain isn't listening - it's off on something else. Articulation is the same. The whole thought has got to get in working memory otherwise our disconnected thoughts come out in disconnected speech. Is it any wonder I was depressed so often?

I have above average intellect but I'm certainly not gifted like so many that post on this board. Maybe I'm a cockey old geezer, but I don't think there is anything I can't learn as long as I teach myself. I learned maybe a dozen programming languages. How? I guess most people start with a book. Believe me, I got a whole wall in my office stacked with programming references, tutorials and the like. However, I learned every language by writing a program in that language. When I got the program done, heck I actually knew what I was doing. Only time I read one of them-there books is when I couldn't get the dang thing to work. If I went to a school I would have gotten thrown out for being stupid.

So I pop my Adderall and working memory works. Cool. Trouble is, I never learned how to use working memory cause mine never worked. So my "coping skills" are simply learning what everyone else learned eons ago. Organization, scheduling, planning. The fact is ADHD folks need more of those than non-ADHDers. I need a relatively rigid schedule. Got to keep a higher degree of organization. And it is very helpful to plan on paper even those things most folk would just do in their mind.

I do hope I've been of some help.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for your reply. :)

Do you take Adderall XR or quick release? What's your dosage, if you don't mind my asking? I recently took 10mg Adderall quick release, and didn't perceive a dramatic change - so, I upped it to 20mg, and I was miserable. There was this dull, aching feeling in my stomach, almost like a feeling of dread. I took Adderall XR back in college, but I didn't see that it helped. I wasn't, however, working, and I didn't need the working memory/concentration as much as I need it now that I'm employed. So, I didn't notice that it was doing anything - I'm going to see if I can't revisit it. I need to get this under control because I currently *hate* the job I'm in, and I'm going to need to be able to interview. I actually went through an interview a month or so back, and "blew" it - I'm not sure I did as badly as I think I did, but they decided to pursue other candidates, so I obviously didn't give them a good impression. I think since I started on these medications, I've gotten worse. I'm no less irritable or more able to communicate effectively, etc. than I was to begin with. I got through college fine w/o anything. I just feel like something is missing. You or anybody familiar with Focalin XR? I'm thinking of trying it with an SSRI, such as Celexa.

Thanks!

First, Adderall XR pretty much fixed working memory problems for both me and my son almost immediately. Some other issues have taken time, but working memory has completely turned around.

Second, if you've taken that long list and have seen no reall effects, it might be time to think about seeing a neurologist. Working memory can be affected by several other problems, but a neurologist is probably the best person to nail it down considering your somewhat exhaustive med trials.

Good luck!

Hi Barb,

Thanks for your response. I've considered a neurologist, but I haven't been able to convince myself that I need to see a neurologist - that seems "serious" if you know what I mean. I almost perceive my problem to be "in my head," and only worthy of consideration by someone who deals with that (psychiatrist), if you know what I mean. I just need to get over that, I guess.


Thanks!

Hi there --

Well, I don't remember everything that you wrote (LOL, working memory!) but a few things struck me that you may consider looking into.

First, it's obvious that you are intelligent, so that's not the problem. I have many of the same problems with processing and encoding (encoding, meaning, storing what I have learned in a way that I can easily retreive it) information that you do. Like you, I did very well in college, but that was because I was probably the most intensive note-taker known to man. I have self-diagnosed as having some sort of auditory processing disorder -- in other words, I don't remember what I hear very well. For example, if I listen to a tape in the car of a sermon, I can rewind it five minutes and realize that I didn't even hear probably about 25% of what the person said, and I THINK I've been listening intently the whole time. There's just some sort of disconnect between what goes in my ears.

This also caused me problems on the job. My boss would explain something to me, and I would be trying so hard to process and remember everything she said that I would get "stuck" trying to remember what she just said, and not listen to everything. Then I would get frustrated and try to hide my frustration, but by then I wasn't processing anything that she was saying. Then I would ask a question, and it would be obvious to her that I didn't "get" everything she was saying, at which point she would think I was being purposefully "dense." Then I would pretend like I understood and processed everything she said, only to go back to my desk in a panic because I knew that I didn't really get it all and I would worry about what I didn't remember. I wouldn't want to ask her to repeat what she said and "look stupid."

The problem is, when you're smart people attribute these difficulties as being intentional -- you're not listening intentionally, you're being dense or rebellious, and it's exhausting to try to explain something you really don't understand yourself.

I ended up going to my boss and saying, listen, I'm going to need to write down everything you tell me so I can be sure I remember it, because I've got a lot going on in my mind. Then I'm going to repeat it to you to make sure that I got everything you intended to say. She accepted that and it ended the sessions where we would both end up frustrated and angry.

Another possible thing is a dictophone to record what's said, so you can go back and gather up what you missed.

The word retrieval thing is another biggie with me. My mom would say stuff like, "Go get the milk from the . . . the thing, the white thing . . .keeps things cold," "refrigerator?" "Yes the fridge." Now I do the same thing. My brain just gets stuck.

Another problem is, you're smart so there's a lot going on in your mind. Here's an analogy that I use. It's like being in a parking lot with someone that you know. You know the person and what they look like. Well, if there are only three people in the parking lot, it's going to be easy to find that person when you're looking for them. But if there are 500 people, it's going to be much more difficult because you're going to have to weave in and out of those other 499 people, even though you know exactly who you're looking for. The "person" you're looking for is the thought or the word or the piece of information that you need, and most "normals" may have 10-20 others floating around. But we with ADD have a whole crowd of them, so it's easy for them to get lost in there!

Blessings to you and just know that you aren't alone.

this is where I went, I dont know where you are, but this guy is great.
http://www2.ncneuropsych.com/
the doc is thomas Gualtieri, he has been envolved with dr amen.
good luck

Bob,

Do you take Adderall XR or quick release? What's your dosage, if you don't mind my asking? I recently took 10mg Adderall quick release, and didn't perceive a dramatic change - so, I upped it to 20mg, and I was miserable. ... You or anybody familiar with Focalin XR? I'm thinking of trying it with an SSRI, such as Celexa.
ms244,

To answer your question, I'm currently prescribed regular release 20mg Adderall AM, 20mg, early afternoon. - 40mg total daily. I do not always take the afternoon dose. And I positively take a minimum 1 "drug holiday" per week.

I was on Lexapro which if I understand correctly is closely related to Celexa. I found Lexapro to be a very effective antidepressant with minimal side effects but it did little for my ADHD.

Like Barbyma, Adderall effects on my working memory were immediate and dramatic. It was as if someone throw a switch and bam! the lights came on. Your lack of response to Adderall is not in itself a positive indication that ADHD is not a player. But it does indicate that, at mimimum, other factors are at work. And it is entirely possible that ADHD is not a contributor.

We all draw from our life experiences when solving problems. My experience is that defining a problem is as good as solving it because it gets me barking up the right tree. ADHD is the definition of my mental woes. Since I got the definition, I've been gaining on it in leaps and bounds. But it is a process that is far from over. I keep discovering new aspects, new insights and new ways of managing.

Medically they call definitions diagnosesses. (however diagnosis is pluralized) I agree with Barbyma that you need to see a healthcare specialist that can give you an accurate "what the heck is wrong with my brain." In reality it can be some time between an accurate diagnosis and that point where we feel that we "got this beast under control." Nevertheles, that accurate diagnosis was in my case the point where discernable progross began.

Go see that neuro guy.

Bob

I just realized I misspelled "struggling." hehe How humiliating...

Everyone, thanks for your response. :)