Funniest thing -- while I was diagnosed at 3 or 4 and had several doctors recommending Ritalin (which I didn't get) -- I always told my therapist I wasn't sure I would have been diagnosed in grade school because my grades were okay and I thought my behavior was too. Well ......... I recently found my Memory Book with my report cards, notes and such from K to 12. Apparently my memory is a bit rose tinted.

Teacher's comments:
Doesn't complete work promptly
Doesn't follow directions
Handwriting is hard to read but legible (8th grade)
Facts come a bit hard -- needs to put in more time
Talks too much in class


7th Grade Classmates:
You don't listen, all right!
You need to be a little more thinking about your class.
Bossy!!!
Criticizer!!
Pretty cool, but nosey.
You're a little slow, because you don't always listen all
the time. You're forgetful!

In 5th grade my Standford Achievement test at me at the 10th percentile in Spelling and the 14th percentile in Math Computation. This is not the range my IQ scores would have predicted or the result of family problems or not attending to homework. It was just so weird -- I was reading this and wondering who is this person. I guess a selective memory wasn't a bad thing since it helped me develop a more positive view of myself. I had read that ADDers sometimes don't realize how bad things were, but I didn't think that applied to me. It makes we wonder what else I've missed along the way.

Anybody else poor at accurate self observation?

Scattered

I have been told more then once that "I just do not GET it"

I know that I am not totally observant when it comes to things/people around me.........or even jokes for that matter

About two years ago, I was living with two room mates for the first time. One day I started talking to one, telling her how I THOUGHT I was, then she started telling me things I did not know. I told her I was a considerate person that respected other people an would never embarass them. She laughed so hard and told me I kept making smart remarks and was very witty, but that I embarassed people with my wonderful jokes. I HAD NO IDEA! (Me, impulsive?) I learned so much about myself by living with room mates. I discovered, with examples, how I "don't listen." It is true, I don't! (again, I had no idea).

Armed with these insights, I asked my sisters. They confirmed the insights and added that I'm very inpatient and rigid. I connected the dots and went for an evaluation: ADHD!

I had already told my psychiatrist (whom I had seen for a couple of years) ten years before that I thought I had ADD; he (believe it or not) sent me for an IQ test! He also gave me an rx for 4 ritalin pills to try. I told him that they "felt good" and made me more productive at work, that I liked the "high." He said I did not have ADD (my IQ was on the high normal side) He kept treating my anxiety and depression until he diagnosed me seven months ago.

Was this malpractice? I think most psychiatrists just did not know better.

Two things come to mind:

1) When first discovering the root of my cognitive problems, I suddenly realized that it was possible that many of the times DH said, "We talked about it. Don't you remember?" I may have been the problem, not him! (Although he's certainly ADD, too, so....)

2) An hour ago I was commenting to a long-time friend about not realizing how bad my cognitive impairments were until I started to get some of my abilities back. Even though I've been making comments to her for a couple of years that I thought there was something seriously wrong with me neurologically, I didn't know if she'd noticed a difference in my ability to follow through and/or think clearly, so I asked. She said she noticed these changes almost 5 years ago!!!

This, btw, was not long after the birth of my second child, when I seem to have undergone a lot of hormonal changes. I think it just kept going down hill slowly until I started to reach a pre-menopausal stage about 2 years ago....

It sneaked up on me...:o

Anybody else poor at accurate self observation?



Um.. ME ME MEMEEE!!... That is all.:rolleyes:

Man, those teacher comments are a thing of beauty, aren't they? Diagnosed 2 years ago, I would give an awful lot if I still had all of my grade school and middle school report cards with teacher comments. I only have such documents from my last few months in PRE-SCHOOL, and Kindergarten (though I think I just might have my 1st grade ones somewhere)...Funny this topic arose becuase I JUST ran across the pre-k and k reports last week! I copied the comments into Word and here's what one of the kindergarten one's said:

First & Second Report

11-23-83

"Gray216" is a good citizen and is well liked by his peers. However, at times he permits his attention to wander when he should be concentrating on his work. He needs constant supervision in order to finish what he started out to accomplish. It will take a combined effort on both of our parts to help him develop better work habits.


Pre-k:
4. Joins in group activities: Hardly Ever


9. Can complete a task designed for his age without
losing interest (Y/N): No

Two things come to mind:

1) When first discovering the root of my cognitive problems, I suddenly realized that it was possible that many of the times DH said, "We talked about it. Don't you remember?" I may have been the problem, not him! (Although he's certainly ADD, too, so....)Too funny barbymma! I could have changed the initials and written this! Exactly my experience!

This, btw, was not long after the birth of my second child, when I seem to have undergone a lot of hormonal changes. I think it just kept going down hill slowly until I started to reach a pre-menopausal stage about 2 years ago....

It sneaked up on me...:oYep -- I relate here as well. After my second child was weaned I hit pre-menopausal or as I prefer to call it "The Wall" and am still peeling pieces of myself off it. My ADD atypically got much better when I hit puberty -- apparently estrogen agrees with me. My spelling achievement test scores in 8th grade jumped 50 percentile above 5th grade and my math computation jumped 70 percentile. The down side of all this seems to be that as my estrogen slacks off I'm reverting back to my childhood space cadet ways.:eek:

Scattered

Snappy Cloud, I relate to the impulsive surprise. When I took the TOVA -- I really crashed and burned on the impulsive section. I kept hitting the button when nothing was there -- couldn't stop it. When I told my mom about it, I said, but I'm not impulsive. She responds, "Well ................":eek:


Gray, those are great teacher comments -- practically wrote the diagnosis for you.

Minn, yeah -- I frequently have to ask my husband to explain jokes and movie lines.

Daria, come on ... don't you know confession is good for the soul!:p

Scattered

I'm just discovering how much I lack in this self observation. I thought I knew myself pretty well and how I was around others but everytime I say to a friend "I am/do this.." they say "no, you do THIS". EVERY SINGLE ONE of them! I can't believe just how different my idea of myself is compared to theirs, I don't even know what I am to other people.
Apparently, according to those I think know me best, I am impulsive, bossy, somewhat self-centred, I don't watch what I say, I sometimes insult or embarass others, when talking online I constantly come in and out of conversations, I drive aggressively, I forget more than I thought I did, and I'm hyperactive(I'm pretty sure I'm inattentive but now I'm wondering..)

How is this even possible?!

Ok ok.. eh heh...

Actually, I have been "self analyzed" by my significant other to a point where I just can't say a word because it is all ending up as true and I work on it from that point on. What bothers me most is how right he is about the way others see me because when he describes the situation, I feel the same way. Thus I want reallly bad to hate myself and be sad and depressed about how I have behaved even for just a moment and I realize that wont make it better. I think because we both have ADD it is harder but because we are both honest to one another it is easier. At least to focus on making things right by example.


One thing that hits the spot is when you think you knew how you were acting and you think you are doing good and "BOOM!" there comes a bomb right down to reality...

I think trying to analyze yourself is one of the hardest things to do for us and thus the necessity to see a good doctor for assistance.
Oh... And being impulsive is one of my MAJOR downfalls... uuchh..

Wheresmykeys, hate to mention this but from what your friends say about you do you think you might have ADHD?:eek: (I know the feeling;) ).

Daria, I relate to the feedback from significant other -- I still have to wrestle away the temptation to beat myself up for the ADHD stuff I do, but it's getting easier to be understanding with myself as it finally sinks in that I really do have a few neurological challenges and I'm not just a bum! It's especially hard when you think you're doing great and you get negative feedback. Of course if your husband is ADD (mine probably is too, but won't get a dx) his perceptions may be off at times -- anybody ADD or not can be off for that matter (non ADDers just might be off a little less often -- but having worked in the counseling field I can assure you that they have their issues too!

Ya'll have a good day!

Scattered

I can relate, I worked at a place for 18 months and I guess I thought I was always well liked or whatever but it wasnt till the end of my time there that I found out a few things. It wasnt that they didnt like me and infact we all became really good friends its just that at the beginning apparently I was a bit of a 'full on' person etc and it took a while for them to get use to me I was kinda shocked when they told me. And I thought I was easy to get along with :P

Well back to bed... I really should be alseep its 3:59am but my brain wont stop thinking. :faint:

Scattered I actutally have wondered if its ADHD based on that. I guess I will find out when I get diagnosed but right now I'm not sure. I am such a dead weight a lot of the time, usually mostly around home, work or school, but when I am out I will admit I can be a bit out of control. I have a very ADHD friend though and he is faaaaaaaaaar more out of control than me so I'm not sure what I am isn't just an energetic personality. Is it possible to be really sluggish sometimes and be off the wall others and be ADHD?

Anno I can relate to what you're saying by thinking everything is perfect and then later finding out flaws. In my last year of highschool, just 2 years ago, I thought I had the perfect group of frriends, I thought we were all super bonded and that we'd be a group forever...then I find out they've alll gone behind my back and have as a group decided I think I am the star of the group and rule it all. When in fact, in my mind, I thought I put myself below them and would do anything out of my way for them. Funny how different that could be. ANyways, that ruined a couple friendships. Some claim I still am that way but half the group disagrees now :rolleyes: I really wonder just how out of the loop I really am sometimes.

Wheresmykeys,

Just when is your appointment??? Are you being made to wait???

Wheresmykeys, hate to mention this but from what your friends say about you do you think you might have ADHD?:eek: (I know the feeling;) ).

Daria, I relate to the feedback from significant other -- I still have to wrestle away the temptation to beat myself up for the ADHD stuff I do, but it's getting easier to be understanding with myself as it finally sinks in that I really do have a few neurological challenges and I'm not just a bum! It's especially hard when you think you're doing great and you get negative feedback. Of course if your husband is ADD (mine probably is too, but won't get a dx) his perceptions may be off at times -- anybody ADD or not can be off for that matter (non ADDers just might be off a little less often -- but having worked in the counseling field I can assure you that they have their issues too!

Ya'll have a good day!

Scattered
I am not sure.. but I think he should see a doc again too. Soon. I feel our relationship is drifting and I donno how to talk about it. (yes insecurity I think)
Also, If you tell him he is wrong, he always has a reason he is not. He told me the other day I am always wrong.
....

I am not sure.. but I think he should see a doc again too. Soon. I feel our relationship is drifting and I donno how to talk about it. (yes insecurity I think)
Also, If you tell him he is wrong, he always has a reason he is not. He told me the other day I am always wrong.
....Boy, does that sound familiar! Frustrating, eh?

Scattered I actutally have wondered if its ADHD based on that. I guess I will find out when I get diagnosed but right now I'm not sure. I am such a dead weight a lot of the time, usually mostly around home, work or school, but when I am out I will admit I can be a bit out of control. I have a very ADHD friend though and he is faaaaaaaaaar more out of control than me so I'm not sure what I am isn't just an energetic personality. Is it possible to be really sluggish sometimes and be off the wall others and be ADHD?Oh yeah -- for sure! That's the way I am. I read a pretty good explanation of it once in a book called Think Fast: The ADD Experience edited by Thom Hartment, etc. inthe chapter by Carla Berg Nelson called "rhythems of the Racing Brain". She describes using a graph the flow from underfocused to overfocused and how it changes as the level of arousal increases. It's the best explanation I've seen. Other researchers describe how it is a dysregulation in activity level and in focus from low to high for some ADDers.

Scattered

I should try to find that book and read it. I've never seen a description of it that describes exactly my experience. It seems that most books go completely toward hyperactive, or completely toward inattentive but rarely a good mix.

When I read stuff about ADD I generally find it fits me to a T, but motivation levels is one thing I haven't found a match for yet. I'd like to know about it though.

Something I've found is that pure researchers don't always catch that both are true -- maybe it's because they're trying to get "pure" groups which makes it easier to get reliable research results. What I have noticed is that the writers who have ADD themselves tend to be more aware of this hyper and hypo side of ADD.

Thomas Brown of Yale also does a good job of describing it in his book Attention Deficit Disorder: The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults. He described how it's not just a problem with putting on the brakes, but also a problem with initiating action to start with and a problem with shifting gears.

I really got hung up on the whole question for a while too, because I didn't neatly fit into the boxes I was reading about. But than real people rarely do fit neatly inside boxes. In my counseling classes, they used to remind us that the map is not the terrain. In other words, the description is not the condition. In the end what is most important is learning about your ADD -- each of us is a unique person with special gifts, deficits, and ways of functioning in the world. And as my counselor remind me frequently, that's okay!:)

Scattered

Boy, does that sound familiar! Frustrating, eh?
Oh yea... sadly.Worse thing is he has ADD/ADHD as well.

.. I relate to the impulsive surprise. When I took the TOVA -- I really crashed and burned on the impulsive section. I kept hitting the button when nothing was there -- couldn't stop it. When I told my mom about it, I said, but I'm not impulsive. She responds, "Well ........."
Just like you, Scattered, I could NOT stop hitting that button once that short-term reflex was 'trained' even though the front of my mind sure knew that I shouldn't. It was a real eye-opener, in terms of the power of some primal wiring to, in effect, short-circuit the cortex. It was also one of the early things that alerted me to how much these characteristics can mix and match, and the limits of specific neurology for predicting general temperament. On the behavioral side, I am normally anything but the act now/think later type. Instead I more often "overthink" my choices in life.

Except, of course, when I dont {bg}.

One of the Clinical Scales on the Behavior Rating Inventory of Executive Function (BRIEF) is Monitor.

It's part of the Metacognition Index (MI) and measures :

1) self-working checking habits,which is covert ( i.e.,thnking/talking to ourselves abut "Have I done a good enough job here or is there more to do?)."

&

2) Personal monitoring (i.e.,being aware of the effect our behavior has on other people).

Is this the same as "self-monitoring"?

Or more like "The JOHARI Window"?


Emma

One of the Clinical Scales on the Behavior Rating Inventory of Executive Function (BRIEF) is Monitor.

It's part of the Metacognition Index (MI) and measures :

1) self-working checking habits,which is covert ( i.e.,thnking/talking to ourselves abut "Have I done a good enough job here or is there more to do?)."

&

2) Personal monitoring (i.e.,being aware of the effect our behavior has on other people).Does someone else have to fill this out on you? -- because especially for #2, it seems that for an ADDer they would frequently be oblivous to their effects on others. Or is this something the psychologist observes?

I've never actually seen a BRIEF and don't know how their filled out. I'm guessing that ADDers generally fall pretty low in both categories, correct?

Scattered

Is it possible to be really sluggish sometimes and be off the wall others and be ADHD? To pull out an ancient phrase, you bet your sweet bippy it is!

It's not that ADDers are always "on". Far from it. It's the inconsistencies, and the stimulus-dependency that make ADD start to look like a strong possibility, especially if you can't hold focus steady even when desire is present. Over (and under) responding is a big part of what ADDers struggle with. To pull out another cliche, you're hot when you're hot (i.e. stimulated) and not when you're not (doing low stimulus tasks). In low stimulus times, both the brain and the body may go offline.

Some of the titles on ADD in women go into this aspect in more depth, as the on/off variability seems to be an especially common pattern in the "inattentive" type without hyperactivity, which many ADDult women tend to be.

Just like you, Scattered, I could NOT stop hitting that button once that short-term reflex was 'trained' even though the front of my mind sure knew that I shouldn't. It was a real eye-opener, in terms of the power of some primal wiring to, in effect, short-circuit the cortex. It was also one of the early things that alerted me to how much these characteristics can mix and match, and the limits of specific neurology for predicting general temperament. On the behavioral side, I am normally anything but the act now/think later type. Instead I more often "overthink" my choices in life.

Except, of course, when I dont {bg}.Yeah -- that's what surprised me too -- I'm much more of one to worry a decision to death before deciding anything. Except when I'm not!:p Those nots though are usually only on really important decisions- like getting married; selling our home, leaving my practice, and moving to a foreign country;buying a new car; etc. It's only the little decisions I put much thought into!;)

Scattered

Those nots thought are usually only on really important decisions- like getting married; selling our home, leaving my practice, and moving to a foreign country;buying a new car; etc. It's only the little decisions I put much thought into!;)I can make huge life decisions in an instant on gut, but I HATE making "little" decisions. As an example, I will often hit three buttons on the soda machine simultaneously, and take whatever comes out, because I don't want to have to choose a soda. Or I will use a coin toss to decide where to go for lunch. It's almost like it hurts to squeeze my brain into such tiny details of life.

If I had the money I'd hire a personal 'ADD' trainer to follow me around all day and observe everything I did and tell me what I'm doing wrong. And shock me with a tazer on those sluggish days.

This is me all over......I've been a poor self observer for as long as I can remember.

Scattered: I can 100% relate to your first post plus more.

If I had the money I'd hire a personal 'ADD' trainer to follow me around all day and observe everything I did and tell me what I'm doing wrong. And shock me with a tazer on those sluggish days.
I can almost promise that has been a thought in my own mind once every so often. ..

If I had the money I'd hire a personal 'ADD' trainer to follow me around all day and observe everything I did and tell me what I'm doing wrong. And shock me with a tazer on those sluggish days.Yeah, an ADD coach or personal trainer would be great, but if I had that kind of money, I'd probably just hire someone to do that stuff (laundry, housecleaning, paperwork) and go do something interesting -- I do those things just fine!:D

Scattered

hahahah!
I am confused, because I also have ADD, however my self observation is preatty good, in fact, I would never have gotten treated for ADD if I would't have recognized my symptoms of ADD. I personally went to my mom and told her what I was struggling with. Sometimes this self observation, however can be negative for me because I focus to much on my weaknesses. For instance, if I am in class, I will be very aware of "how unfocused I am at a specific task," however I sometimes fail to truely recognize my positive side because I am to buzy focusing on what I need to work on so that I can improve. I think that is why I also get stuck in " ruts" so often. I am so buzy asking my self " what can I do better" or " what can I improve at?" After a while these questions overwhelm me. I begin comparing myself to others and feel depleated, I am only looking at what I have done wrong, rather a combination of both."

Is this accute self observation typical of ADDERS, or am I unique?

Also, any suggestion for imporving my positive self talk, and shifting the focus from the negative aspects in my life to the positive ones?

Oh, if this was true maybe it will explain why I am always confused about myself and have big problems with self-identity...sometimes I think I got myself right he times, but I am usually told that I am not right about it- not that my peers observations are more accurate than mine...so I end up doubting everybodys beliefs about anamari...