hi.

i guess i'm wondering how you adults managed to get things done/stay on task (and concentrate on things for long periods) prior having the benefits of ritalin/adderal/strattera, etc.

did you have particular routines? schedules? what worked for you?

(i'm kinda desperate.)

thanks.

bean

my story goes:

i've had concentration/procrastination problems as far back as i can remember. i started college about six years ago & could not figure out how to stay on task well enough to study and do my work on time.

after 4 rough semesters.. i eventually failed out of school my junior year due to unwritten papers.

so anyways.. i'm back & getting things done. i've had to resort to strange things to help me stay on track (ie. red bull, constant self-monitoring, some rituals etc.). my therapist got me on zoloft to help with anxiety.. but i'm quite frustrated these days b/c i feel my lack of anxiety worsens my ability to concentrate.

in any case, my psychiatrist prescribed me ritalin.. but my therapist doesn't want me to take it b/c she wants to find the "behavioral" route to my concentration problems. i suppose i'm a little frustrated at the moment, especially since she's trying to delve into a problem i haven't been able to correct during the times i've wanted to the most (ie. the semester i failed out of school).

so i guess bottom line.. without ritalin &/or anxiety.. i'm the spaciest, most forgetful person ever. how did you guys stay on track when you didn't have medication?

did you guys manage to read to the bottom? in any case. any advice is helpful.

Things that helped me concentrate...

- deadlines - the pressure of the last minute

- coffee - I hated coffee and when I asked my friends if it helped them concentrate they said no that it just kept them awake...eventually I tried it and it did wonders for my concentration but gave me stomach aches and insomnia

- forcing myself to study at the library where there are less distractions helped a little bit.

Anyways, nothing really worked all that great...that's why I eventually went to a counselor and then a doctor to get help.


Just a suggestion...maybe you could talk to you therapist about starting the "behavioral" stuff while you take the medication you were prescribed. Then you would have better focus in the meantime while you learn new strategies, and you'll be able to focus better on learning those strategies. Then once you have the behavioural stuff in place you can decide whether you need/want to continue the medication. Anyways, it's your decision.

thanks. that's probably good advice.

you're really right about the first two. last minute pressure always works wonders for me. the only problems that come out of this is when i underestimate the time i need to finish the task (but i've gotten better and pressuring myself with more time on the plate). and yeah, i absolutely need caffeine to do any sustained work.

the library thing is a little different for me. i find that the silence makes me even more fidgety. i either have to be blasting static or music in my ears.. or need to be in a place with a lot of white noise.

thanks for the reminder. i'll try to stick to a few of those things.

i'll probably talk to my therapist about doing both meds and the behavioral stuff next week.

the library thing is a little different for me. i find that the silence makes me even more fidgety. i either have to be blasting static or music in my ears.. or need to be in a place with a lot of white noise.

thanks for the reminder. i'll try to stick to a few of those things.

i'll probably talk to my therapist about doing both meds and the behavioral stuff next week.
I find myself in this position as well. I do not funtion well without something to help me block out the distractions around me when I'm not medicated... I find that this for me, was a CD player... but my teacher's frown on me using it as a study aid during school in incredibly quiet enviroments... To me the lack of noise is one of the worst noises, because then the only thing I feel is the static in my head.

Also, yeah, the caffiene thing is something I did... I could go through a 12 pack of coka-cola a day if I wasn't really careful...

My son also finds he gets more of his schooling done with his music on, fairly loud, or even his CD player with head set. In school, at test time, he always said that sometimes he would be distracted by other kids tapping pencils, turning paper over, etc, yet he would be ok with his loud music. I guess cause it takes away the quiet. So during study hall at school, they are allowed to bring music with headset with them, as long as they don't have it loud enough for others to hear it. He seems to be able to get his homework done then. If it helps him, I am all for it. Meds in his case help too. Tried without for a long time, decided he needed them.

Hi Dwight,

When I was in college they still thought kids out grew their ADD, so I didn't have any meds. What helped me get through successfully was exercise. I exercised a number of times a day. Hallowell and Ratey (Driven to Distraction, Answers to Distraction, and Delivered from Distraction) say that exercise is like a dose of Ritalin and Prozac taken holistically. It's effects can last two to four hours. I was also heavily involved in music and had few distractions, but I really think the biggest factor was exercise.

If your psychiatrist prescribed Ritalin, I'd give it a try. You can't behaviorally manage a neurological problem, unless your therapist can go be with you everywhere you go to keep the reinforcements going. Your Ritalin will probably make it possible to better utilize the behavioral methods she's discussing. I made a lot more progress in therapy once I started medication. If you don't like it, it will be out of your system fairly quickly -- you owe it to yourself to find out if it's effective for you IMHO.

I also relate to the part about as the anxiety goes down so does the performance. I think I used my anxiety level to focus me to do what needed to be done. Also SSRI's, while they help the emotional factors can make the focus, memory parts worse -- that's how it works for me and from what I've read that's not uncommon.

Educate yourself as much as you can about ADHD. Hallowell and Ratey's books are a good place to start and also have a useful list on non medication tips to try. You can also look up www.SchwabLearning.com (http://www.SchwabLearning.com) and Sam Goldstein and others have some good articles on ADHD there. There are books you can find in the catelog at www.addwarehouse.com (http://www.addwarehouse.com) that specifically address tips for getting through school with ADHD.

Good luck to you!
Scattered

thanks so much scattered. great response.

i think you're right about exercise. the last month before my fall semester ended, i walked 2 miles in the morning before class & it was the best decision ever.

this semester i have a few classes that require me to shower & change before sunrise (and i get home past sunset).. so i haven't quite figured out where to put in my daily walk. maybe i should put more importance on getting this done than i have been.

ALL MY OPINION, but it's a pretty well-educated one.

Even if you could "manage" a neurological problem with behavior, this one isn't managable.

How I managed before diagnosis was mostly brute force. I have pretty good self-control and discipline and I MADE myself do it.

I don't recommend this. What happens when an ADDer forces themselves to focus is that the neuroligical process that makes it hard to concentrate in the first place works harder to sabatage the effort.

I spent 4 months studying for my PhD qualifying exams and this took me from having a somewhat difficult time reading and staying awake in lectures to being unable to put together a coherent sentence. It turned me into a pile of blubber that couldn't rub two thoughts together.

I actually made my 8yo do homework last night when it was obvious that his meds had worn off. He said it felt like his brain was coming out of his ears. I realized immediately this was a mistake and put a stop to it.

If your therapist is looking for a "behavioral route", he/she doesn't know much about the disorder. Listen to your psychiatrist.

...I didn't.




I honestly can't believe no one has stated the obvious, short answer yet. *grins* (And the answer is actually "don't" because my meds don't really work yet.) Anyway, some things that have made my ability to get things done slightly better:

-Deadlines, as someone said. REALLY inflexible ones; ones that allow "lates" don't work. Consequences of failure to meet deadlines must be dire. And no, I don't like the panic that induces, but it works.

-Waaay too many energy drinks. If I had a nickle for every time someone has told me, "You're going to kill yourself with that stuff," I'd have at least a month's worth of bus fare by now.

-Beating myself up

-Alternatively, arguing with myself that the consequences of slight failure to meet high standards are not the end of the world

-Working on the train (nothing else to do, plus it's moving, which seems to help somehow?)

...And that's about it, really. I used to listen to music to study/work, and that absolutely doesn't work anymore. I just end up listening to music and doing nothing else. Which is HORRIBLE, because if I need to work, I have to put music away. That's like making the world black-and-white or something, and then trying to find interest in the colors. It's so utterly bleak, and all I want to do it put down what I'm doing and go turn on some music again. :(

Which doesn't help. *sigh*

But yeah, actually - do pay attention to what sound, lighting, etc. is in your area when you're trying to work. Some things are probably more optimal for you than others.

Someone may have already said that, but I'm beyond the point of being able to read the whole thread tonight. My apologies for any redundancy.

-Bean <-- *grin*

re: barbyma

i dunno. i actually think my psychologist knows a lot about ADD. i think she treats a lot of children who may be medicated for ADD but are simply the product of poor parenting.. which may explain her slant.

i also think she made a few assumptions about me before ever getting to know me. i think i fit easily into the "high-achiever.. obsessive-compulsive" stereotype, based on my background. i don't think i really am though b/c i know myself to be a scattered mess.. and my friends describe me as flighty and incredibly forgetful.

i dunno. sometimes i feel like there's some sort of lack of communication w/ my therapist? i'll try to be more clear next time.. or something.

hi bean. i like your name. : P

i also like your input.

yeah.. i think beating myself up about things helps.. otherwise, i'm just sort of like "whatever" and i don't realize that important things are falling apart in front of me. i think my therapist doesn't realize that although beating up on myself is bad.. it's one of the few things i have to make sure i don't accidentally fail out of college. ... side note: unless you meant "beating myself up" as in physically punching myself, because in that case, you're on your own. : P

oh yeah.. and i still consistently make big mistakes.. but i don't beat myself up about them if the ultimate outcome is okay. i managed to study for all of my exams the morning of the exam last semester.. but i still managed to pull off As and A-s.. so i'm not complaining. the problem happens when i end up not studying at all.. but hopefully that won't happen any time soon.

hopefully my music thing won't loose its efficacy any time soon.. it's one of the few ways i know how to get myself to focus when writing a paper.

...I didn't.




I honestly can't believe no one has stated the obvious, short answer yet. *grins* (And the answer is actually "don't" because my meds don't really work yet.) Anyway, some things that have made my ability to get things done slightly better:

-Deadlines, as someone said. REALLY inflexible ones; ones that allow "lates" don't work. Consequences of failure to meet deadlines must be dire. And no, I don't like the panic that induces, but it works.

-Waaay too many energy drinks. If I had a nickle for every time someone has told me, "You're going to kill yourself with that stuff," I'd have at least a month's worth of bus fare by now.

-Beating myself up

-Alternatively, arguing with myself that the consequences of slight failure to meet high standards are not the end of the world

-Working on the train (nothing else to do, plus it's moving, which seems to help somehow?)

...And that's about it, really. I used to listen to music to study/work, and that absolutely doesn't work anymore. I just end up listening to music and doing nothing else. Which is HORRIBLE, because if I need to work, I have to put music away. That's like making the world black-and-white or something, and then trying to find interest in the colors. It's so utterly bleak, and all I want to do it put down what I'm doing and go turn on some music again. :(

Which doesn't help. *sigh*

But yeah, actually - do pay attention to what sound, lighting, etc. is in your area when you're trying to work. Some things are probably more optimal for you than others.

Someone may have already said that, but I'm beyond the point of being able to read the whole thread tonight. My apologies for any redundancy.

-Bean <-- *grin*

I think you're pretty much asking asking how people born with a handicapped leg walked before they got it treated...(weak example, I know)

The point is... alot of us really didn't... if we were able to actually focus and concentrate using any techniques at all, this forum wouldn't exist, nor would the medications to treat the disorder we suffer from...

shrugs

i guess my next question is: is it possible for add-ers to find moments or concentration every once awhile without meds? there's something about deadline pressure that wakes me up from my cloud.. so maybe i was coming from that perspective.

i am also trying to decipher whether my ability to concentrate under strange circumstances is enough to argue against me taking meds to help myself.

Have you heard references to "hyperfocus?" Because it sounds like that's what you're describing with the deadline thing (and why hard deadlines get a lot of us moving). Put under pressure, we often WILL focus very well. It's the intensity of the demand that finally kicks our brains into gear; becuse ADD brains are "underaroused," we need more stimulation to function "normally."

So no, I wouldn't say this necessarily negates any need for meds; most (if not all) of us can hyperfocus under the right stimulation. But you yourself said you can't concentrate without your anxiety - is it HEALTHY to be anxious all the time, to put yourself under that deadline pressure all the time? Is it good for your body?

I'd say there has to be a better way than THAT. If behavioural methods work for some people, kudos to them. But I've generally found that the more years go by, the more I am straining my whole system trying to handle this on my own steam.

thanks mr. bean. good point.

I'm not on meds. But I do focus sometimes. Even hyperfocus.
The usual things tend to get me to do it -- interest, deadlines, self rewards...

The problem with these "techniques" is that they aren't reliable. I can't promise that just because I find this topic interesting today, it will still be interesting tomorrow, or even 10 minutes from now. Rewards can stop working. Deadlines can pass by.

This unreliability is probably one of the worst things for me. For those who still remember the pre-cable (PC) era, it's like fiddling with the antenna to tune in a fuzzy tv channel; once in a while you'll get a crystal-clear picture, then it will go all fuzzy again, and even putting the antenna back in the exact same position doesn't fix it.

You end up grasping the antenna, standing on one leg with your arms wrapped in tin foil, and watching the show sideways -- and it's still fuzzy!

Absolutely -- it's really not an attention deficit but an attention inconsistency. You can't consistently force yourself to pay attention to things you're not interested in; however, if you are interested you may lock on to it like a laser guided missile. It's stimulation!!! Stimulation is what gets an ADDers brain going. Even on the dull stuff you can make yourself focus sometimes, but it takes 100% off your effort compared to other people's 55%. Who can sustain that all the time?

As far as your counselor goes, here's my take (I'm a licensed counselor myself, but not currently working -- busy with little ones at home). Counselors are taught in a particular line of thought and don't easily veer out of it. If you had come to see me 5 years ago and asked about ADD, I would have told you it was way over diagnosed and meds were just a crutch, and yada, yada, yada. Looking back, I'm not sure what I would have based that advice on scientifically. Just opinions you pick up along the way. If your counselor is a behaviorist, that will be the lens she sees clients through. Behavioral treatment is actually very effective with ADDers who are medicated! As a high achieving somewhat obsessive compulsive type myself -- I know that we're a bit harder to diagnose. Read Thomas Brown's book if you have a chance called Attention Deficit Disorder: The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults. He discusses why smarter ADDers frequently get missed and the ways their ADD impacts them. He also talks about why they can concentrate on some things and not on others. Parent's don't cause their kid's ADHD -- 80% is genetic. The rest is stuff like lead poisening, head injury, prematurity, fetal alcohol syndrome, and such. So your therapist is either treating misdiagnosed kids, or she needs to get up to date with the latest research on ADD.

I'm real familiar with the second guessing thing about meds, diagnosis and all. I'm betting though that if things got problematic enough that you're seeing a psychiatrist and counselor that your ADD is interferring in your life enough that meds would be valuable. If it wasn't a problem, you'd probably be spending your time and money elsewhere. The other thing is that with Ritalin, if you choose to and your doctor approved, you can just take it when you really need it. Being in school, however, that might be a good share of the time.

Scattered

i really appreciated this.

dwight,

Along the lines of what BeanD posted, there are a million techniques I used over the years to improve my focus:

-- putting reading material on audio
-- multi-tasking (it really improves my focus to have my attention divided)
-- lots of breaks
-- a bunch of others

The bottom line, though, is that doing all of these things caused more harm than good. The allowed me to avoid getting a diagnosis and getting help, but I pushed myself into a corner.

The meds your psychiatrist prescribed are well-researched, well-tolerated, effective, and low-risk. If we were talking about a high-risk med, I could see good reason to do everything in your power to avoid them, but we're not.

It comes down to the seriousness of the symptoms, I think. If you aren't having any trouble functioning, meds aren't needed. But, then, why even get a dx? If functioning is impaired enough to seek help, the only proven treatment is meds.

I'm starting to sound like a pill-pusher even to myself, so I'm going to quit now!

haha thank you miss barbyma.

you advice is well taken. i almost didn't turn a paper in last semester b/c i hadn't gotten myself to read the material, much less write the paper. in a frustrated attempt, i found an audio version of some of the concepts discussed in the book, and i managed to get enough out of it while i did my daily driving. i turned it in with an extension.. but at least i turned it in.

.. which also brings up the idea that i work better when doing a few other things at the same time. i may try to do this more this semester. i've been trying so hard to do only one thing at a time these days (a hard task for me to do) that i wonder if i waste more time than not.

breaks may be good.. but sometimes i worry that i get so sidetracked that i never return to what i was doing.

i guess my main concern now is that i don't want to fail out of school anymore.. and i oftentimes don't trust myself to do things adequately.

in any case, thanks guys. i'll more seriously consider meds.. without the guilt i think.

I have a tendency to hyperfocus on stuff that isn't important - for example, I needed to get some homework done the other night, and I wasted a good hour and a half making a laptop stand out of a cardboard box (??!!). I'm a college student (graduating in May - YAY!) and what really helps me stay on task is making a very detailed schedule for myself. I made a spreadsheet in Excel for my scheudle. I have the days blocked off in 30-minute intervals, and I schedule everything from classes to studying, practicing my violin, eating dinner, and taking time for myself to relax. Every Saturday afternoon is "Cara Time" - I never schedule anything then. I am free to indulge my ADD and wander aimlessly, hyperfocus on silly things, watch cartoons, whatever. Somehow knowing that I have an afternoon coming up where I can do whatever I want really makes me stay on track the rest of the week.

I practice my violin every day. If I practice in the practice rooms at school, I'll bring my laptop and watch cartoons while I practice. At home, I keep NPR on the radio or football on TV on Sundays just for the noise. Somehow I concentrate better if something is going on in the background.

Having a little "ritual" helps too...before I sit down to practice or study, I stretch, make some tea or coffee, and write a short list of what I want to do. I keep a journal for EVERYTHING - one journal for homework and to-do lists, a practice journal where I write down what I practiced that day and what I still want to work on, a day planner, and a separate planner to keep track of my teaching schedule, payments, etc. I think I need to get a palm pilot!

I practice my violin every day. You know I really wish I knew how much good this did -- at one point in college I was practicing French Horn 5 hours a day, between private practice and all the music groups I was in. I'd love to know the influece this has on an ADDers brain. Mine seemed to be working better at the time -- I wonder if all the music practice had anything to do with it.

Scattered

Whoa, that's an interesting idea, Scattered! I used to play clarinet and also play soccer. Exercise is supposed to help ADD a lot, so that may have been part of the reason I had "good years" between elementary and college. I never once thought about music being part of it, too... But it's really hard to tell, because while I quit clarinet sooner, I quit it during a period of depression. So...no idea what effect that was having vs. soccer.

Before adderall the only thing that would really help me focus was having trance music playing while i did my studies. sometimes very low, sometimes loud, but always the same internet radio station that plays hours long mixed trance sets. The beat is so steady it somehow helps me keep on task.

and timing myself
and taking breaks
and a detailed schedule that includes breaks for mindless internet exploring or whatever my wandering mind craves

interesting nods.

i used to play the piano & violin.. and i used to exercise in the form of ballet on a daily basis.. but this was before college. i'm afraid i don't know my instruments well enough to play them in a relaxing way anymore.. and i'm guessing the daily exercise i used to get was helpful at the time.. but i definitely can't do that anymore. hm. poop.

oh. and i used to be fabulous at using schedules throughout high school. whenever my mind would wander in class.. i would plan out my day.. hour by hour. i had this great agenda i purchased through my high school.. and along with my random scribbles.. i managed to structure out my day.

i haven't been able to do this since though.. and i know it hurts me. i've bought so many planners.. but i either loose them or never manage to write in them consistently. i tried simple lists instead.. but alas, i lost those as well.

however, i think i'm developing a scheduling system of sorts by scribbling down random things to-do over the course of the day.. as it comes to me. as the week passes, i'll look at my list and cross out the things i've managed to do.. and if i haven't done it yet.. i circle it. if a week passes by & it still hasn't been done.. i rewrite it on the next page & circle it several times, etc.

i dunno.. it's not as detailed as i'm imagining your schedules to be.. but it's definitely a start.

Whoa, that's an interesting idea, Scattered! I used to play clarinet and also play soccer. Exercise is supposed to help ADD a lot, so that may have been part of the reason I had "good years" between elementary and college. I never once thought about music being part of it, too... But it's really hard to tell, because while I quit clarinet sooner, I quit it during a period of depression. So...no idea what effect that was having vs. soccer.I'd love to see a study done on this -- I was into heavy duty exercise too along with my music and I really did well in school (in fact better than the majority of neuro normals) even without meds. Nowadays my exercise is very inconsistent as is my music practice, though I'm making an effort to do my own study of one and get regular again.

Scattered