Ok, this is an interesting question/thread. I have yet to see any information on it specifically. I know this pertains to teenagers, and perhaps tweens as well. I don't mean to freak or weird anyone out, but I have following a hunch that some who read this know the road I have been on. The following could be considered graphic, and for those who are "cutters" or self-injure/self mutilate... this possibly could trigger. To read the message below, provided this warning, scroll down then simply highlight inbetween the lines.




























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do you like to tape your mouth shut?
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I'm sure we all can respect each other in this forum. If the above speaks to you, please respond. This topic needs to be addressed and in the propper places. This being one of them.

Uhm. Actually. I have, yes. I dunno how much it has to do with my adhd or just that I'm weird. I don't cut on a regular basis, so I dunno... :confused:

I'm not convinced it's simply an ADD thing, I know (suspected) ADD sufferers who cut, but then they're also Bi-polar/depressive, which seems to be a common factor in these things.

But yes, I do cut. I don't really see it as a problem; some people smoke, some drink, some cut. In the end everyone needs their way of getting through the day

Inflicting bodily harm on yourself is not "getting through the day." Also, I dislike it when people try to pin everything on ADD. It's like blaming the devil for everything you chose to do.

People are complex, nobody is really normal. We just chose to call some people normal because it makes us feel better.

I agree. I don't think it really has anything to do with adhd, except that we may become more open to trying stupid things without thinking it through. But I've found when I've done it, thinking was the last thing I was doing.

I would never "blame" the fact that I have s/i'd on adhd. I'm more than just my condition. Or conditions.

Cutting is more closely connected to borderline personality disorder, dissociative disorder, and PTSD. One of the characteristics of cutters is having suffered sexual abuse or severe physical abuse.

Anyone one doing this should be seeing a counselor or psychologist and should be honest with this person about what they are doing.

I am sorry you are suffering, but get some help.

Cutting is more closely connected to borderline personality disorder, dissociative disorder, and PTSD. One of the characteristics of cutters is having suffered sexual abuse or severe physical abuse.

Anyone one doing this should be seeing a counselor or psychologist and should be honest with this person about what they are doing.

I am sorry you are suffering, but get some help.
Yeah, definitely... it's not something to eff around with, and usually there are underlying issues...

Of course easy for me to say, I don't see anyone about it, but I also do not do it that often. :: sigh ::

Having read the description of BPD, I get nervous.

Interesting, thanks for that reference Coral.

I've never read up on Borderline before, and it seems worryingly familier

I used to attend another forum where the forum members are largely Australian teens... several of them are cutters, they have a whole subsection devoted to talking about it and posting pictures. I try not to go by there any more because I don't have a lot in common with them (I'm 32 yr old man) and I didn't want to interfere with their feeling of community / privacy or make them feel like I was judging them. (For the same reasons, I won't comment on this thread).

If any of you are interested in contacting this forum, send me a PM with an email or IM address and I will forward it to one of the people in charge.

[cellar_door]
Having read the description of BPD, I get nervous.[/QUOTE]
No reason to get nervous, easy for me to say;)
All acronyms for mental disorders are just an easy way to lump together symptoms so that docs will be able to treat.
Make sense?
No ONE is every single symptom of any particular disorder and none of us are ONLY a disorder.

The letters help the docs help you that's the way I look at it all anyway. I am NOT a disorder I am UNIQUELY me, formed by my physical/mental self and the environmental situations I was exposed to.
I can CHOOSE to seek help and change...or not.

and here's cameron's post regarding bi-polar:

okay here is the deal about bi-polar...my Mom works in the Mental Health field and she counsel's people with bi-polar and schizophrenia.

When you have bi-bolar you have MAJOR mood swings, and are MANIC(out of control bascially, SUPER hyper, then SUPER down)..one minute you are VERY elated the next you are MAJOR depressed...believe me, you WOULD know the difference if you are bi-polar or just have ADD...go to the bookstore, a lot of books on Bi-polar disorder.

btw, I worked in a Mental Heath hospital for a while...and everyone there was either Bi-Polar or schzophrenic(these are the two most SERIOUS mental illesss, if you have one of these more than likely you cannot work or support yourself, all SORTS of issues). A lot of people who are Bi-polar have ADD. Not so much the other way around though.

cameron's post was helpful to me because so many of the tests can seem to fit just about anyone.
Even my Pdoc said 'well these 2 tests CAN show a possiblity that you MAY have X or X, let's just treat your symptoms, for now'

A lot more teens are cutting than people are aware of. While maybe 5 or 10 years ago it was only teens with PTSD and other disorders a lot more "normal" teens are cutting now. Teens are doing it to relieve everyday teenage stresses.

ADD doesn't cause teens to cut but there are probably a higher percentage of teens with ADD who do cut than teens w/out ADD who cut. Teens with ADD do face a lot more stress than the average teen. ADD very rarely comes by itself either so teens with ADD are more likely to also have co-existing conditions.

Cutting is becoming a common way for teens to self-medicate. It's another way for some to relieve anxiety much like smoking pot or drinking. It's also becoming a way for teens to fit in because like waywardclam brought up there are "cutting clubs".

Simply telling people who cut not to cut isn't really going to help. It's like telling a coke addict not to do coke. That person will just keep doing but hide it because they are shamed by it. They need to be able to discuss it and not be judged so they can feel comfortabel talking to a professional about it.

My manic Depression and PTSD as a teenager...when frustrated or angry..I was a cutter as well...Dunno why I did it..but it was this uncontrolable act....But growing up and a lot of therapy...Ya kinda grow out of it..but in a way still is still with you cause of the Manic Depression(I think) but You learn to control it.

It looks like some of the first post was removed for some reason so I do not know what cutting refers to.

Could someone post or private message me as to what it is

My post wasn't exactly referring to a "cutting club". It is an internet forum where a variety of issues are discussed by mostly teen members, including romance, sex, drugs, music, TV, whatever, and several of them have also decided that they want it to be a safe place to discuss cutting as well, where moderators won't let anybody judge them, censor them, etc.

Hm, I agree that people are way more than just a disorder, and no one is 100% symptomatic (is that a word?) of any condition. It's just scary when you read about something like bi-polar or borderline and see how many of those "symptoms" you see in yourself... it just makes you think.

:: careful, below could be triggering ::

And yeah, I actually do know a few people who have/do cut and the majority of them do have adhd. I think that most kids don't do it to relieve stress so much as to focus on a different pain. If you feel overwhelmed in your mind with problems, real or exaggerated, it can be...a release. It focuses you on a completely different pain. If I cut my arm, I focus on that pain, not on the crap that is in my mind. Bleh. It's a relief, because physical pain is (relatively) less than mental pain.

Ha, if I had a dollar for every disorder I show symptoms of, I'd have, well, a lot of dollars.

Simply telling people who cut not to cut isn't really going to help. It's like telling a coke addict not to do coke. That person will just keep doing but hide it because they are shamed by it. They need to be able to discuss it and not be judged so they can feel comfortabel talking to a professional about it.
Yes, exactly. It's real easy to say don't, and I would be the first person to say don't especially if you never have. But it's impossible to tell someone who does to stop, especially if you haven't done it yourself. :: sigh :: I agree though, that you should talk to someone.

And thank you Charlie for the info!

Christopher,

um I'm a little embarassed to realize NOW that this is the teen fourm...but hey I have a teen, so does that count?

I'm glad your posting!!!
What I'm kinda wondering about though is why cutting, why not exercise? Is it uncool and just for jocks or what?

Ok I remember (one time in bandcamp) in the city when it rained I would run barefoot for miles that was painful! I also ran the RxR dodging hobos for the danger factor, etc.

I understand the feeling of pain helping to divert someone from internal crap, but this just seems so trendy---please don't mean to belittle or dis anyone---but why are so many people doing this, I'm just not getting it.

Christopher,

um I'm a little embarassed to realize NOW that this is the teen fourm...but hey I have a teen, so does that count?

I'm glad your posting!!!
What I'm kinda wondering about though is why cutting, why not exercise? Is it uncool and just for jocks or what?

Ok I remember (one time in bandcamp) in the city when it rained I would run barefoot for miles that was painful! I also ran the RxR dodging hobos for the danger factor, etc.

I understand the feeling of pain helping to divert someone from internal crap, but this just seems so trendy---please don't mean to belittle or dis anyone---but why are so many people doing this, I'm just not getting it.
Ha, of course it counts! I posted in the adult forum without noticing! I have parents, so uh, there! :p

And yeah, I really don't know "coolness" factor, I know a lot of people see it as something kids do now because...other kids do it.
I think if it wasn't for online communities, kids might not even KNOW that other kids do it, and it would go back to something no-one knew about.
In "real life" I don't know a single person who has bragged about cutting. I have talked to a few people online who do/did, and they all hide it from parents and friends as do I. There is a safety in talking to people miles and miles away about it, as there is in anything that is less than socially acceptable.
And that, I am somewhat of an expert on. adhd is one of the few things I can actually talk about with people here, but still I get treated like a spazzy little kid sometimes, and get taken less seriously because of how I think.

Well, ok, sometimes it's hard to deal with (and this is just me off the top of my head giving a quick list of my problems) being adhd, anorexic (possibly), bi-sexual (possibly), self-injuring, sometimes depressed, sometimes anxious... I mean a lot of that is normal stress but it just seems when you add it all together that sometimes it becomes just a little bit too much to handle.

I am sure that some kids do it just cuz it seems cool to be messed up these days. Well, trust me, I would give anything to be un-messed up.

Ignore me I'm a dumb***

I'll edit something in here later, not feeling too clarafied at the moment

Toby...no no no...no 'dis-ing' oneself on forum, sure way to get folks like me to say
YOU're NOT 'X' {insert self-depreciating word here} be kind to yourself,

But of course, now you are committed to posting on this topic later, I'm holding my breath-not a pretty sight either;)
Now if ever I decided to hold my breath until I felt clarified HAH never HAPPEN@@@!!!

Christopher,
You write so well, with so much feeling I just want to tell you I'm amazed that you feel 'messed up'.

Ya know I'm wondering if there would money for you in some sort of...I don't know like an advice column for teens somewhere.
I can see your column "ask Mr. C_D" (the Ann Landers of the 2k generation)?

Ok that's my brain burp till the coffee kicks in anyway.

Please keep in touch and let us (or PM if ya want) know how things are going for you!
Other than forums are you seeking help for yourself? Docs, meds, groups, counseling?
Hope so, I know I'm trying all of the above and it's almost tortuous at times:(
note to self: MUST make appt with that counselor even though it's uncomfortable:(

Truly is work to try to improve your life/mental health. But it's easier than just doing it myself, tried that for too dang long.
All of us can struggle through on our own but why should we, when there's help all over the place?

Best of luck to all of us in this journey!

A lot more teens are cutting than people are aware of. While maybe 5 or 10 years ago it was only teens with PTSD and other disorders a lot more "normal" teens are cutting now. Teens are doing it to relieve everyday teenage stresses.



Absolutely, but that's not to say that simply because they don't have ADD that they don't feel pain.

And you could be right, for some people it could be a trend related thing. However in my experience, I would have to say that in the majority of cases it's not. That doesn't mean to say that the same can be said for the rest of the world.


There's also a profound difference between discussing cutting in real life, and bragging about it. Discussing is usually done in the context of close friendships, and can be very benificial.

Chris, I can absolutely empathise with your situation (for what it's worth)

As someone who's been dogged by sexuality issues for a long time now, I can honestly say Bi-sexual is the best way to be. It's fantastic.

ADD amplifies teenage problems exponentially, that list of yours is more than most people have to deal with in a lifetime, you've done well to cope :)

People often confuse ADD symptoms for immaturity, the latter is most common in most peoples everyday lives, so it's the more obvious explanation.

Absolutely, but that's not to say that simply because they don't have ADD that they don't feel pain.


I didn't say or even imply that people who don't have ADD or other condtions do not feel pain.

And you could be right, for some people it could be a trend related thing. However in my experience, I would have to say that in the majority of cases it's not. That doesn't mean to say that the same can be said for the rest of the world.
I don't think it's just a trend. Who knows why very few teen cut years ago and why so many do now. I'm sure there are theories and research in that.
But so many teens are cutting now and teachers and other professionals who work with teens are now being trained on how to recognize signs of teens (or preteens) who cut.

The average person does not know what cutting is. Many people here about a teen cutting and automatically assume that the teen is trying to commit suicide. I really think that people especially parents needs to be educated about cutting

I didn't say or even imply that people who don't have ADD or other condtions do not feel pain.
Yeah I know, sorry, it sounds a bit *****y but it's not meant that way. Bad habit of mine

I myself have been through a lot to send me into waves of depression on an occasional basis, yet I've never harmed myself in any way. On the other hand, I do know others who haven't been through as much and do, some with and some without ADD. So it's more of the childhood you've endured I think, though it still could be related but the person who does it that has ADD on my end also has BPD, so I'm not entirely sure.

Thank you muchly Charlie.. .writing helps a lot to take my mind off of things too.

I'm not sure if there is a connection between depression and cutting in all cases... though I'm sure people share both issues... Take me, I'm not often depressed but....

I think this spectrum of things, depression, bpd, adhd, s/i, ed's, anxiety, ocd... they are all connected in the way the affect people, and the type of person that gets most affected by them.

Actually, cutting can be one of many bi-products of ADHD...my doctor explained to me that my innability to relate to kids my age and befriend them was because of the ADHD somehow. My innability to find peace with society, however lead to my depression....which lead to cutting...I guess it depends on what symptoms you have and how it effects you, because, one thing can lead to another?

reading that honestly.... wow... it just froze me and i felt like my mouth was taped shut, and it brought back memories of me doing that when i was a really young child.

and it just... it was absolutely CHILLING to read that (between the lines thing in first post.)

and now i feel like doing that again, but for different reasons. i think i used to do it just for play. not i feel like doing it and just sitting on my bed...

i dotn know.

anyway, i was frustrated badly earlier on toinight and made a sepapare thread related to this stuff (but relating to more violent acts against self).


*** warning.. following might provoke***


and by the wayside, i've tried cutting once. it was not on purpose or with intent to begin with.... and it was after mum came into my room and said or did something (dont remeber what) that got me extremely frustrated.
i got a pin (there was one right next to me) and scratched a little line up my wrist (about 1.5cm long). then i just kept dragging the pin over and over (more 'smoothly' than 'against the grain'), and i was not doing it with the aim of drawing blood. and it became soothing, and i watched the little line get redder and redder and eventually start to seep tiny amounts of blood. i felt so in control. i felt also like i had really achieved something (i dont know???). but it was definately a control thing.
this was approximately... 8 - 9 months ago.
over the next few days i kept dragging the pin across. the thing about the pin was, that it had a little tiny imperfection at the tip, and it was slightly rough. thats why it was so effective.
and i LIKED the sensation of it to begin with, before it started to bleed. i could liken it to the sensation of 'biting down' on a sore tooth. just feels gooooood.

i feel like im some f***** up psycho saying all this...

It looks like some of the first post was removed for some reason so I do not know what cutting refers to.

Could someone post or private message me as to what it iswell im confused like you, however i DO KNOW what cutting refers so.

i just dont see the link between
- thread title --> opener stuff in bold --> the question --> the subsequent posts.


it does look like it has been edited, i agree garry.

could someone pm me please, who can explain what's going on with this and why i'm confused and can't put the pieces of this thread together quite?



EDIT: I DIDNT REALISE THIS THREAD WAS STARTED OVER 18 MONTHS AGO, AND THE FIRST REPLY WAS POSTED 13 MONTHS AFTER THE THREAD WAS WRITTEN..... weird...

I started cutting when I was 40 and the only reason I know is my hormones where going crazy . I was very depressed at the time and losing alot of weight. When I told my dance teache she told me to tell the dr or she would my therapist. I did and that is when I was diagnosed Borderline Personality. That was 4 years ago. Cutting a symptom of something else not a problem of its own as I use to think. It is one of the major criteria for BPD. I went through DBT which is a therapy developed be Marsha Linehan for people with BPD. I went to a phychiatrict hospital in 2000.... I had to stop cutting myself before I really hurt myself. I had stitches in my foot once. The following year I went back on my own accord like in 2000. Then I was there for 4 months. There are many things to learn from the Dialectiacal Behavioural Therapy. Not all therapist can give this kind of therapy they have to be trained in it. Well there is my 2 cents...auntchris

Cutting/Self-Mutilation behaviors are not restricted to tweens and teens. I started cutting in my early thirties, and the member posting before this one started in the fourth decade of her life.

These behaviors are not restricted to cutting, burning (cigarette butts, etc.) banging body parts against hard objects, or beating a body part with a hard object. Some women are addicted to plastic surgery, some to other types of self-destructive behaviors. Dusty Miller, in her excellent book Women Who Hurt Themselves offers a descriptor for certain behaviors: Trauma Reenactment Syndrome (TRS). The following is a direct quote from page 26 of the abovementioned book:

TRS women, whose rage, pain, and shame lead them to hurt themselves, reenact the trauma inflicted upon them in childhood through a pattern of behaviors, a set of distinct personality styles, and a number of predictable and distressing problems in living. There are four central characteristics that distinguish [emphasis added] women who suffer from [TRS] from other women [emphasis added] with self-abusive habits or a history of trauma:

1--the sense of being at war with one's own body;
2--excessive secrecy as a central organizing principle of life;
3--inability to self-protect, often evident in a specific kind of fragmentation of the self; and
4--relationships in which the struggle for control overshadows all else.

Several of the other posts here and in another thread discussing cutting mention the control issues and personality traits and so on. I am currently researching this topic for a paper in my Abnormal Psych class. Not a lot out there, but folks are beginning to get on the ball with these very real maladaptive behaviors.

You never know who is hiding scars and scabs on their backs, upper legs/hips, ankles.....

Smooch you may want to look at this site for info I found it pretty informative.

<http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html (http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html)>

what you can do now info

<http://crystal.palace.net/~llama/selfinjury/self.html (http://crystal.palace.net/~llama/selfinjury/self.html) >

Let us know how your paper's coming along.

I look forward to closely inspecting those sites! :D

smoo :D

I have been researching this topic as quickly as I can; because, I'm one of the few adults who had no clue what anyone was talking about until the third or fourth post. A lot of the research not only points to certain disorders but also points to the "silent victim" the victim of sexual and physical abuse who for so long kept it inside or our right lied to protect or out of fear. The research points out that these kids are now needing an outlet and unable to find one they let the pain and tension out thru their blood in a situation they have all control over. As I said I have so much more information to go over, ten more books to read, hundreds of links before I can post anything even remotely understandable.

Doing what I can
Cherity

It could have something to do with ADD/HD because what i heard was that we're me likely to get depressed then others then some "cut".

So, far the research I have read has not pointed to any disorders but rather certain experiances or personality types. For instance the percentage of cutters who have been raped is very high and most cutters were raised in a quiet family where talking about pain, abuse, cutting are not acceptable.

acually, i doubt most people that have add or adhd cut them selfs, and i also doubt that a lot people who cut have add or adhd, while im sure some do, its probally rare, i dont have adhd or add, (theve tried to diagnose me with it for 8 years now until recently) but i do have major depressive disorder, and i think i also have border line personality disorder. and im rather surprised by what this board seems to think about this subject, its rather open minded, but yeah.. oh and here is a great great web site

www.self-injury.net (http://www.self-injury.net)

acually, i doubt most people that have add or adhd cut them selfs, and i also doubt that a lot people who cut have add or adhd, while im sure some do, its probally rare, i dont have adhd or add, (theve tried to diagnose me with it for 8 years now until recently) but i do have major depressive disorder, and i think i also have border line personality disorder. and im rather surprised by what this board seems to think about this subject, its rather open minded, but yeah.. oh and here is a great great web site

www.self-injury.net (http://www.self-injury.net)


You will find that most not all but most ADD'ers also have co-morbid diagnoses of Depression, Anxiety, Bi-Polar, etc, etc.

While cutting is most associated with depression or PTSD you will find that a lot of our "cutting members" are also dx'd ADD/ADHD.

I try be open minded and encourage the poster's of this section to take an active role in their own dx and tx and to discuss openly the topics that society generally shuts their mind to.

Cherity

Nucking you are so thoughtful to go to such lengths to research this and respond with such kindness and caring, and not respond w/o trying to fully understand.

I cut when I was a teenager. I'm ADD, was raped as a teen, was abused as a kid. I have ADD, anxiety, and probably PTSD. I don't cut anymore, only did it a couple of times, and it was more a way of taking out feelings of extreme anger. Since i couldn't take them out on anyone else, and wasn't allowed to talk about the abuse, rape, or anger, I took them out on myself.

As an adult, through therapy, with a good therapist, I'm just beginning to understand the ramifications of what happened to me. And as an adult, I can say, if you're a teen, and you're hurting, please try to find some help, don't cut. I've lived with the scars all these years, and have lived with the incredible shame. if you have to cut, do it where it won't show, and where you won't have to explain it to your future husband or kids. think about it. i did it on my arms, brilliant!

anyway, nuck, you are, as always, a wonderful person!

hey look i used to cut. But i had to stop because i would cut so deep that you could see the fat tissue in my arms. Then i went to burning myself with a cig. I don't do it anymore. But i am known as the girl with the cuts and burns on her arms.

I wonder if I am in here. But i am known as the freak with scars on her arms so deep and everyone can see them> I Used to cut then burm myself with cigs. If i would have cut myself any deeper than i would have bled to death.

People with ADD tend to suffer with years of bottled up emotions, with no learned way to express them and no way to know that it's okay to feel them in the first place.

A lot of people do it for that very reason, repressed emotions, but not ADD in itself.