The last time I saw my psychiatrist to get a refill on my Adderall my doctor pointed out my lack of eye contact. I can't remember the exact term he used but my eyes dart around all over the room when I'm speaking one on one with someone. I was totally unaware of it and I'm so glad he told me because I actually thought I had good eye contact. He pretended to be me in a conversation and showed me what I do and then told me the messages I send by doing this. I was shocked to say the least. So at first I thought maybe it just happened with him because I don't know him very well but when I shared this with my husband and mother they both say I do it all the time no matter who I'm talking too. My husband said I'm really bad and my mom said it makes me look unsure of myself. Now I'm making a point out of making better eye contact but when I do I lose my concentration and can't listen to what the person is saying. I'm also kind of embarrassed because I'm thinking back to all the people I may have unknowingly offended by this by seeming uninterested in what they were saying. I'm also very frustrated because it's such a hard thing for me to do and it shouldn't be. I'm even feeling a bit angry because in 30 years nobody has ever once told me I have poor eye contact but god forbid I get a pimple and everyone I see notices and tells me as if I didn't already know.

I'm the same way. I have very poor eye contact. I noticed it a few years, when I started to realize that I could talk with someone and not even know what they looked like because I hadn't even looked at them.
I try, as you said, to focus on that, but then I lose the conversation as well. Good luck with it, it's very frustrating!

casinowife,

As to the why of your lack of eye contact, I can't say.

Is it insecurity or distraction?

My former lack of eye contact came from insecurity. It's murder in business because it suggests incompetance. It is part of our body language. That being said, I will sometimes lose eye contact cause I just got bored and distracted. Still not good for relationships. If I am speaking with a female business associate, I will intentionally periodically look away so as not to suggest anything other than business. Money business that is, not monkey.

I tell you, our body says it all.

Bob

I'm the same way! I'm terrible with eye contact and I only notice it after the fact and I'm totaly aware that it sends a bad message. My exgirlfiend always said it made me look smug and insincere; two things I totally DON'T want to be.

However, I do find that if I make an effort to give eye contact, say at the drive-thru or places like that, I'll usually have somebody hold that contact for slightly longer that I would feel comfortable (honestly, it can be measured in miliseconds) but I get a very nice smile in the end and I usually think, man, I should do that more often. :)

I also have a very hard time with eye contact. I don't know why but it has alway been that way, for as long as I can remember. One of the ladies I work with pointed it out not too long ago and it really embarrassed me first then I got mad. Mostly because she pointed it out while telling me that she had seen on TV that that is how you tell someone is lying.

I can't help it either. I try to work on it daily but like you I find that if I look directly at someone I loose my concentration. Mostly because I'm thinking about their hair or if they have something in their teeth (can't stand that one) or anything but what they are saying.

Keep working on it. You are not alone. Good luck. :)

I look at peoples faces not not their eyes. I don't know why. I tend to read lips more then eyes. I think I get scared when I can see their eyes and they can see mine!

I have EXCELLENT eye contact.

In fact, I have been accused of STARRING at people often.

Actually what I end up doing is making eye contact and if
I can't pay attention to what is being said, I just DRIFT
OFF and daydream. However as I don't move my eyes
from the person speaking, they think I am starring at
them and apparently that is quite uncomfortable.

On the other had, I don't notice body language. It seems
I haven't figured out that if someone starts to walk away
that they NO LONGER WANT TO TALK TO ME.

- Vic

If I have something really important that I want to communicate, sometimes I find I need to SHUT MY EYES so I can concentrate. ???

i have a hard time with eye contact too

it's called gaze avoidance; i suffer greatly from it. i have always struggled to make "proper eye contact." i would only stretch my efforts so thinly, though, when it was pointed out to me that i wasn't making eye contact. since my very early childhood, it has literally FELT like there is some sort of force that pushes me to look somewhere other than to whom i am speaking. when i greet someone or answer my apartment door, i look away and to the right; it's an involuntary action. aside from that, i've always had this irrational discomfort inside of me that arises when someone forces eye contact upon me. maybe it's crazy to think, but unwanted eye contact feels like an unauthorised, inappropriate intrusion.

OMG!! I tend to do that too....damn...yet another thing to keep in check..

I think I do it because when people talk too long, I can't follow, and I get embarassed that I can no longer join in very well...I also often look around for someone else to go talk to, just to have an excuse to get away..

Don't be too hard on yourself. I do the same thing sometimes,. and can be pretty bad about it when I am stressed and hyper.

Just remember, much of the information in a conversation is nonverbal, and using eye contanct and watching the face of the person you are talking to is a good way to get many of the finer points understood.

I see other people who have adhd do it and I find it remarkable, because it is very obvious when you are watching someone else do it, but I can not really tell that I am doing it myself....


ME :D


The last time I saw my psychiatrist to get a refill on my Adderall my doctor pointed out my lack of eye contact. I can't remember the exact term he used but my eyes dart around all over the room when I'm speaking one on one with someone. I was totally unaware of it and I'm so glad he told me because I actually thought I had good eye contact. He pretended to be me in a conversation and showed me what I do and then told me the messages I send by doing this. I was shocked to say the least. So at first I thought maybe it just happened with him because I don't know him very well but when I shared this with my husband and mother they both say I do it all the time no matter who I'm talking too. My husband said I'm really bad and my mom said it makes me look unsure of myself. Now I'm making a point out of making better eye contact but when I do I lose my concentration and can't listen to what the person is saying. I'm also kind of embarrassed because I'm thinking back to all the people I may have unknowingly offended by this by seeming uninterested in what they were saying. I'm also very frustrated because it's such a hard thing for me to do and it shouldn't be. I'm even feeling a bit angry because in 30 years nobody has ever once told me I have poor eye contact but god forbid I get a pimple and everyone I see notices and tells me as if I didn't already know.

I have a hard time with eye contact. Part of it is because it is difficult to focus on a conversation that well, partly because it is uncomfortable for me. I feel like I am staring when I do.

unwanted eye contact feels like an unauthorised, inappropriate intrusion.
I always feel like when I make eye contact that I"m staring and making the other person feel uncomfortable. For me, it has to do with insecurity more thatn being distracted.

I go to an art school and we have nude drawing classes. Even though we have to look at these people in order to draw them I look away when I make eye contact with them. They probobly don't care and don't even notice. I've been drawing nudes for 2 years so I don't think it has as much to do with me being uncomforable but being afraid of makeing other people feel uncomfortable by staring.

Supposidly there's a 2 second rule for staring at strangers in public, like on a train or at the mall. If you stare longer than 2 seconds it's considered innapropriate or embarrasing. Never put this to the test myslef but it was interesting to read.

I've got excellent eye contact for the most part. I'll break contact if I'm distracted by a noise, something going by, or they ask my opinion and I have to think about something.

From my experience, I think a lot of people aren't comfortable with it.

I have a hard time with eye contact too. I read somewhere that if you have this problem, look at the bridge of their nose between their eyes instead and it will still appear to that person that you're looking right into their eyes.

I have this same problem, as well.

Remember ADHD is usually not the only thing that needs to be addressed. I've been diagnosed with generalized/social anxiety. This is one of the big symptoms of GAD/SAD.

Think about all of the things people with ADHD had to endure while growing up. Just take school for example. "Sit still, pay attention, wake up, where's your homework." Twelve years of this constant interaction is bound to make someone act a certain way as an adult.

I have poor eye contact.
I don't like making eye contact, I feel like I'm staring at them if they talk for more than a few seconds.
I by nature like to look around when I'm standing still, regardless of what I'm doing while standing there.
I've had some people think I was paying no attntion to them but Ive never had anyone bring it to my attention really.
I don't like it, but I can't help it..it makes me uncomfortable to look at someone in the eyes and I'm not interested in doing so.
When I do I focus on the eye contact rather than the conversation
I read somewhere thats common for people with ADD, I can see here that it is.

Asking me to look at you while you tell me something is one of the best ways to ensure that I won't hear you. I can't seem to do both at once. Drives my husband buggy at times.:p


Scattered

That is interesting... I have met Sioux when I was in south Dakota and what I found refreshing about them was the fact that they look you in the eye with no fear and wioth genuine feeling and greet you warnly. :)

My guess is that bit about the Sioux and eye contact applied to warriors and enemies.

ME :D


For me, it works better when I 'watch' people talking than when I listen. I need to look at their mouths in order to concentrate and let what they're saying sink in. I'm also shy, plus, whenever I got in trouble as a child I wasn't allowed to look away, Mom told me to LOOK AT her (meanining, in the eyes).
I read a long time ago that among the Sioux, it's impolite to look someone directly in the eyes. The article didn't say why, but I have a theory, which I have no idea if it is correct:
In the wolf (or canine) society (I also read about this concerning how to deal with stray/strange dogs you come upon one running loose) no wolf or canine within a pack looks directly in the eyes at another - it's considered a threat or challenge.
If you come upon an aggressive dog running loose and look it directly in the eyes, you DO risk getting bitten, or it turning mean.
Obviously I don't mean this to be an insult about Native Americans, but it makes sense as far as good manners go considering their connection and oneness with the Natural world.
So I figure it's no big deal if I look someone directly in the eyes or not - whatever works best for my brain is best for me. If others don't like it if I don't look them in the eyes, that's too bad.
On the other hand, I don't seem to get very much respect from ANYONE, no matter who it is or their station in life. I feel looked down upon most of the time, which I seem to be becoming more sensitive to in how people treat me. Maybe I should become wolf and be challenger, a predator, an aggressor. Not to be mean, but maybe I should just acquire a little bit of guts.

Aren't there some societies where eye contact is not socially acceptable or is that just for children?

Asking me to look at you while you tell me something is one of the best ways to ensure that I won't hear you. I can't seem to do both at once. Drives my husband buggy at times.:p Since I am married to one of "us" this is not so much a spousal issue (i.e. we ignore/expect it in each other) but it sure was an issue with me viz everyone else for a very long time in younger life, until I got how much I was doing it.

I could not continue to process at my usual speed AND hold the gaze/follow expressions of somebody else at the same time. To watch the face of another meant breaking stride on the mental processing. The grin is that it was a good idea to break stride since it was a pace few others could follow anyway [big wry one]. And the double irony was that it looked the same outwardly as social anxiety, which it wasn't.

Now I make it a habit to purposely break stride every few breaths to make eye contact, and to deliberately turn my focus outward while listening. After some time of practicing it almost becomes second nature, but even after years of having it be more natural, I still have to keep my 'monitor' going in the background or I forget, especially if extra-enthused.

Bottom line? The eye-gaze thing *is* a big shared trait of those of us wired this way, but not all such wiring is linked to the same cause and effect. Sometimes it's just about keeping maximum bandwidth available for your personal processing, while for other folks it is about shyness/anxiety and other reactions to internal stress. It's the same net effect -- outwardly -- but quite different inside. So you really cant assume what it indicates in any once case until you ask (presuming the perp even knows that h/she is doing it <g>).</g>

I have no problem with eye contact, but I do this one thing that seems to set people off because they misinterpret it.

I kind of roll my eyes when I'm thinking of my reply. It looks like I'm gesturing that their question or statement was stupid!

I kind of roll my eyes when I'm thinking of my reply. It looks like I'm gesturing that their question or statement was stupid!LOL! I can bet that is a tough habit to break. Funny, isn't it, how we all develop our different ways of putting sufficient focus on the center of our mindspace.

Have you developed any work arounds or do you just explain it out loud if you think you might have just done it to someone who looks puzzled?

Have you developed any work arounds or do you just explain it out loud if you think you might have just done it to someone who looks puzzled?I just explain & people usually get used to it. My students seem to "get it", anyway!

; i suffer greatly from it. i have always i've always had this irrational discomfort inside of me that arises when someone forces eye contact upon me. maybe it's crazy to think, but unwanted eye contact feels like an unauthorised, inappropriate intrusion.
Exactly! This is precisely how I feel about it. I know people say it means you are lying, or something equally as negative, but I don't lie but still avoid eye contact at any cost.
I wonder why...
-A

I also thought I kept better eye contact than I actually do.

The psychiatrist who I am seeing for diagnosis mentioned that I didn't always look at her when I talked and asked if it was because I found it difficult to look her in the eyes. I explained that it was more like I looked away to find my thread of thought again when I had lost it and didn't know what I was going to say.

My mother has also mentioned that my eyes twart around a lot. She said that her mother did the same thing.

I totally have a problem with keeping eye contact. Although I have 2 other comorbid conditions that give me anxiety when keeping eye contact, i find that I cant even foucs or think about keeping eye contact with a person for more than a second, and am always looking around.

Hello
I know this problem well as it affects me too, it's really hard for ADDer's to concentrate on conversations and that's probably why most of us have eye contact problems

I do it too. Mostly when I'm thinking or answering questions. My eyes tend to jump around because I'm searching for an answer.

It's not that I'm trying to be rude or too shy to look someone in the eye. I've never felt uncomfortable with eye contact it's just that eye contact requires concentration. I can look at you or I can answer your questions but I can't do both. lol

its only normal fo you eyes to move about as you try to find the info only diff is that with add/ adhd the minds working faster so the movents ofve the eyes porvkklme more ,,,,if i find the person intresting then i make out contace with them intencly i dono about you but i can fit into most covs even if i dont really know what there talking about lol drom

Yeah I'm usually bad with eye contact when I have to think up new ideas or answer "deep" questions. When it comes to silly questions or just having conversations my eye contact is pretty good.

Well it's good as long as they aren't boring. If they're boring my eyes and my mind leave that conversation. LOL

Bottom line? The eye-gaze thing *is* a big shared trait of those of us wired this way, but not all such wiring is linked to the same cause and effect. Sometimes it's just about keeping maximum bandwidth available for your personal processing, while for other folks it is about shyness/anxiety and other reactions to internal stress. It's the same net effect -- outwardly -- but quite different inside. So you really cant assume what it indicates in any once case until you ask (presuming the perp even knows that h/she is doing it <G>).</G>Nice to hear it might be part and parcel of this thing and that I'm not the only one. I agree about the motive thing -- I'm not the least bit shy. I can pick up a conversation (and frequently do) with total strangers. It's just that when I'm looking someone in the eye, I tend to have my attention totally drawn to the visual cues (my strongest learning modality) feelings come up and the words tend to vanish. I don't think most people realize that about me, because I make enough eye contact, but gaze -- no. I think it's really a very ADD thing -- to much input -- the weaker one (hearing for me) drops off.

Scattered

I'm mostly the opposite of people here! Weird!

I stare, basically, when I'm listening to someone. If I'm not taking in the visual information from their face, I often can't understand them. I have to sit near the front of the room, in good view of the speaker, or I get very frustrated trying to follow them.

When voice-overs on DVDs (I rarely go out to movies) don't "match" the images on screen very well, I generally have to watch the image, back up and stare at the ground while trying to understand the voice-over - but without visual information, it can take several tries to understand.

And I look away while I'm talking or thinking.

I'm pretty sure I can do the eye-dart thing, but mostly just when they're really boring. I get "locked" into eyes easily, and I've definitely had times when I was struggling to look away before someone decided to come and confront me about my staring at them.

(I noticed the eye-darting in an ADD principle I interviewed for a story I was writing for my local chapter of CHADD - they sold it to an education magazine - and I wasn't offended, since it was the first obvious sign he'd made that he WAS ADD, and I felt less intimidated with him then. He was clearly inside some sort of well-behaving persona during our interview, but he relaxed a little afterward, and the eye-darts came out. It was pretty funny!)

I read in a magazine or book once as a child that the best, most natural-looking "eye contact : looking away" ratio during casual conversation is 60:40. I was honestly surprised, since I couldn't figure out what the point of looking away 40% of the time was, but I deliberately attempted to estimate 40% looking-away time from then on out. I still do it fairly deliberately, i.e. there's a mental "tape" running away in the back of my head like, "Now you should look away, it's a good moment...okay, now look back," etc.

When I was evaluated, I of course had to spend several hours discussing my ADD issues rather deeply, so I had to think about what I wanted to say. I concentrated on not staring TOO much when the psychologist was talking to me - I made myself nod and look at the desk sometimes, etc. - but when I had to talk, I mostly looked away, and tried to remember to make eye contact when I could. It tended to break my train of thought, though.

On my report, it says I make "good eye contact," but goes on to note signs of "physical restlessness," including, "looking out the window frequently."

She didn't even bother to ask me why I was looking out the window! I could have told her it was to avoid eye contact.

Same here, Bean..to a lesser extent.

I have eye contact with someone, when I'm listening to them, IF they're directly sitting in front of me..and I also do teh (eye darting) when I'm thinking and speaking back to them..but again, only if they're sitting directly in front of me.

Otherwise my eyes roam all over the place..and come back to rest on the person(s), periodically, that's speaking.

If everyone's talking at once...fehggetaboutitt...(0:

Nova

this thread was the reason why I joined this forum..

when I was in high school a sub told me " you know when your talkin to people you dont look at them?" I turned and looked at her and said "I do?" then turned my head and continued "I never noticed that"... and it was true I never did...

but for a while I swear the major add issue's I was having stopped.. now it feels like everything is back and now I'm relearning everything again...

I cannot look people in the eye.. It hurts.. and I dont know if its something I should do when talking to people...

i find looking impornted cos....even if you dont get what there saying they think you do witch helps in some way/// dorm

but for a while I swear the major add issue's I was having stopped.. now it feels like everything is back and now I'm relearning everything again...

I cannot look people in the eye.. It hurts.. and I dont know if its something I should do when talking to people...It is something you should do when talking to people. Many do not trust a person who will not look them in the eye. If you know someone well enough, explain to them that your lack of eye contact is not personal and that it is not a sign that you are ignoring them.

Lack of eye contact itself really isn't an ADD "trait", but there are two things to keep in mind:

1 - many behaviors common in ADD are not directly ADD, but sort of "side effects" of ADD symptoms. I know that's confusing; this is a good example. Lack of eye contact could be simply the result of divided attention. Many of us find it easier to pay attention to one thing when we have multiple tasks.

2 - when there is one thing "off" in the brain, there are usually more. What you describe - it "hurts" - is consistent with a high sensitivity that is commonly comorbid with ADD, but not actually related to the ADD itself.

Then again, it could be a result of the heightened alertness that comes with ADD - one of the neural attention systems recognized by those of us that research attention. The brain areas that are involved in vigilance (the attention system impaired in ADD) overlap with those involved in alertness and orienting.

My point here is that members should keep in mind that the eye contact problems experienced by some ADDers are not universal (if you don't have this problem, it doesn't mean you're not ADD!)

I can have a hard time keeping concentration while keeping eye contact, but I can also keep WAY too much eye contact so people think I find everything they're saying absolutely riveting. I think it really has to do with physical cues, which I'm horrible at. I forget they exist so I stand with my hands on my hips, get too close, cross my arms, shift my weight, etc. I think about 50% - 75% of the time the physical cues I'm giving off and receiving (or not) are NOT what's actually going on. hmmm...

You said it, Kiddo: Do you want me WATCHING you? Or understanding you??

Oh! New thought: I just tell people I've been a lifeguard for 6 years, so I'm always keeping up with my surroundings. Not the REAL answer, but very true! ;o)

This is a stereotypical behaviour of people with social anxiety disorder but could just as easily be caused by the physical anxiety created by adderall.

I was reading a little on eye contact in ADDers. It is a problem for us as a group,

BUT, the good news is that you can learn to improve eye contact, and that making eye contact supposedly helps keep an ADDer focused on the conversation. :)

ME :D

It is something you should do when talking to people. Many do not trust a person who will not look them in the eye. If you know someone well enough, explain to them that your lack of eye contact is not personal and that it is not a sign that you are ignoring them.

Lack of eye contact itself really isn't an ADD "trait", but there are two things to keep in mind:

1 - many behaviors common in ADD are not directly ADD, but sort of "side effects" of ADD symptoms. I know that's confusing; this is a good example. Lack of eye contact could be simply the result of divided attention. Many of us find it easier to pay attention to one thing when we have multiple tasks.

2 - when there is one thing "off" in the brain, there are usually more. What you describe - it "hurts" - is consistent with a high sensitivity that is commonly comorbid with ADD, but not actually related to the ADD itself.

Then again, it could be a result of the heightened alertness that comes with ADD - one of the neural attention systems recognized by those of us that research attention. The brain areas that are involved in vigilance (the attention system impaired in ADD) overlap with those involved in alertness and orienting.

My point here is that members should keep in mind that the eye contact problems experienced by some ADDers are not universal (if you don't have this problem, it doesn't mean you're not ADD!)Thank you so much Barb :) because the underlined describes me to a T. I can make eyecontact? But I dislike it for the most part. It is easier for me to do this when medicated, but I still do not much like it.

This is a stereotypical behaviour of people with social anxiety disorder but could just as easily be caused by the physical anxiety created by adderall.Italics mine


:confused: Adderall doesn't create physical anxiety.

In fact, anxiety does not refer to a physical state.

Certain physical symptoms (like hyperventilation) are a means of discriminating between anxiety and panic, BTW.

Anxiety could be an indirect side effect of any psychoactive medication, as just about any psychological state can be, however, it's not a common one.

Anyone suddenly experiencing anxiety after starting a psychoactive medication should report this to their doctor immediately.

It certainly does for me, theres a perpetual knot in the pit of my stomach from it. Im coming from the background of having 2 years of treatment for anxiety/panic disorder so i know very well what anxiety is and isnt. I have a very indepth understanding of the neuralchemical nature of anxiety and how it works. My theory on the physical anxiety and adderall is that it uses levo-amphetamine isomers which have a more profound physical reaction than normal old d-amp. Then again it could just be too much norepinephrine which is entirely possible and could manifest its self in numerous anxiety related forms.

Italics mine


:confused: Adderall doesn't create physical anxiety.

In fact, anxiety does not refer to a physical state.

Certain physical symptoms (like hyperventilation) are a means of discriminating between anxiety and panic, BTW.

Anxiety could be an indirect side effect of any psychoactive medication, as just about any psychological state can be, however, it's not a common one.

Anyone suddenly experiencing anxiety after starting a psychoactive medication should report this to their doctor immediately.:eyebrow: How about if the person in question is chewing the Adderall?? Or any other stimulant med meant to be swallowed for that matter?

I know what you're talking about and when i made reference to "chewing" i was refering to instant release meds. All it does is speed up the absorption 5 or 10 minutes. Chewing up extended release would be dumb at best.

I've never had anything but IR since my stupid state health plan refuses to pay for XR without a 2 week authorization process.

It certainly does for me, theres a perpetual knot in the
pit of my stomach from it. ASIDE: I appreciate your knowledge - please keep in mind that replying to a message in a forum means that many people will read it. When I compose a message I try to consider what information any reader might need, not just those I'm responding to. I never intended to insult your intelligence.


Your experience with Adderall is basically an anecdote and, as you mentioned, there are many possible explanations. The increase in anxiety could be due to heightened alertness, but it could also mean your dosage is too high. Have you tried a methylphenidate yet? I don't see any reason one should have to suffer with anxiety unless all the alternatives have been exhausted.

Good luck.

:eyebrow: How about if the person in question is chewing the Adderall?? Or any other stimulant med meant to be swallowed for that matter?Well now you're talking about beyond-theraputic doses of a substance whose delivery has been altered. The effects are a bit unpredictable.

Like most of you, I lose focus on what I'm saying when I make eye-contact, so yeah, I look down or somewhere off to the side. This too makes me worry sometimes that people might think I'm lying or whatever, but I think my co-workers and friends are use to it. Luckily, making eye-contact when someone else is doing the talking, isn't too difficult. I can look someone in the eye and manage to take in most of what they are saying. But if it's someone who I am a little indimidated with, or has something in their eyes that just makes me insecure, then I tend to feel the need to look away now and then when they are talking because I just get too overwhelmed with the look in their eyes, like it's too much of an intense connection.

Well now you're talking about beyond-theraputic doses of a substance whose delivery has been altered. The effects are a bit unpredictable.And once again, I thought of you ;) and thank you for the verification. That is precisely what I thought!

You people are absurd. You cannot alter the delivery system in IR tabs because there isnt any. I suppose from now on i have to guard every little thing i say incase someone takes it out of context.

You people are absurd. You cannot alter the delivery system in IR tabs because there isnt any. I suppose from now on i have to guard every little thing i say incase someone takes it out of context.Nobody is taking anything out of context.

I was responding to Crazy's post, which was made before your clarification.

Adderall IR is one of very few stimulant meds that can be crushed without consequences, however, the delivery CAN be changed (think nasal :p).

The vast majority of stimulant meds currently on the market, I'm sure you know, involve some sort of time-release that chewing would destroy.

I think you might be taking our posts a little more personally than they are intended.