Okay, this is getting ridiculous.
Some nights I just cannot sleep. Yet I can be tired up to bedtime, and right before it's time to get up. So tired, in fact, that I can barely keep my eyes open. But when I SHOULD be sleeping I'm bright and bushy tailed!
I really need a fix for this, because it completely trashes me for the next day.
No meds for an answer please.
Coffee usually puts me to sleep, but not on these occasions.
It's like I'm a rebellious child who doesn't want to "miss anything", or maybe I just love the alone time so much it invigorates me. Whatever the reason, it seriously needs to stop. This happens to me several nights a week, and has since I got a hysterectomy.
I can sleep just fine once the night's over - but if I do it just sets me up for another sleepless night - so it's not a lack of tiredness that's the problem here.
Exercise doesn't help.
Help!

I had sleep troubles for as long as I can remember. These days it has more to do with hormone changes than my ADD.

I fall to sleep just fine but wake up in the middle of the night and can't go back to sleep for 2-3 hours. This is a problem because my alarm goes off at 5:00am for work.

Exercise doesn't help me either but eating better does. Because I'm always battling that I have months I sleep right through my PMS times and others I'm awake and grouchy ;)

No meds for an answer please.
Chameleon:

I see you say No Meds please but I MUST answer as follows.

RITALIN has helped me sleep at night tremendously.

I have taken sleeping pills for 25 years with lousy results. Usually, the most I would get was 4 hours sleep a night. In the morning, I was groggy and irritable. I exhibited all the normal symptoms of a TIRED person or one with ADD.

Last July, I started Ritalin for my severe ADHD.

Immediately, my need for sleeping pills vanished and I started for the first time in my life to get 8 hours or more sleep a night.

I find that if I force myself to go to bed and sleep by 11:30 pm, I sleep through the night. The Ritalin taken during the day, quiets my brain storms at night.

If I stay up later,(past 11:30pm) my brain races and I just can't get it to shut down. I might stay up all night UNLESS I take a small amount of Ritalin.
If I take 5mg of Ritalin, I am sleeping within 20 minutes.

Sorry if MEDs are not the answer you wanted but I MUST share these FANTASTIC results. I want to be sure more people, especially heath care professionals are aware of this potential treatment.


Eureka Moment:
Oh, yesterday I took a drug holiday --- no Ritalin. It is only now that I realize that it caused me to stay up past 2:00am and to wake up by 5:30am.

Best wishes and good luck,

Vic

Thanks marmalade_man, got any no-drug ideas?

HARD EXERCISE. (But not in the last 6-8 hours b4 bed.)

Tried it.

Yeah, I've always had trouble getting my mind quiet enough to let me sleep.


And then I hit perimenopause and things changed again. Once I finally got to sleep I'd find myself waking up with a hot flash or needing to pee and not being able to go back to sleep. Since I sleep alone I keep a 40-watt lamp burning beside my bed and I just lay there reading until I fall asleep again. Even if I can't get back to sleep again, at least I'm resting quietly while I read, and not tossing and turning and beating myself up because I'm not sleeping.

I use a kind of medicine the doctor wont give you ;) lol
But have you tried bergamot essential oil diffused in your bedroom for at least half an hour before you go to bed? Many people find this quite sedating, just an idea.

I have to sleep in a recliner in the living room due to my health, for now. So I'd have to infuse the whole house with the oil, and I KNOW my family wouldn't appreciate that. They throw a fit if I slip a sachet under the couch cushion :rolleyes:

Great ideas though! Keep 'em comin'! Please!

I took a Magneium/Calcium/Zinc supplement to stop leg cramps when I was pregnant and I found it improves my sleep tremendously. I notice the difference even now if i don't take it.

What works for me -
1. Melatonin - I don't know if you'd count this as meds or not, as it's "natural" and available OTC (in the US anyway). It's been the best thing out for me - makes me naturally dowsy, as opposed to groggy as with sleeping pills. I've tried things like Tylenol PM, and they don't even come close.
2. Watch a familiar DVD while going to sleep. Has me out like a light in 2 minutes - normally, I'd toss and turn for an hour.
3. Lavender. Stick a sachet in your pillow. Definitely makes me sleepy, but can also give me a bit of a headache as well. Might be worth a try though.

notmADD - thanks for the input. I tried that -among other minerals - in the form of a hugely overdone prenatal vitamin. I'm sorry to say no relief was found.

Flamin Mo - I've tried melatonin. It works wonders on the rest of my family, and I love how it's all natural and non addictive, but it also doesn't help me sleep :rolleyes:
I'll give your familiar DVD thing a try, thanks. I'll also try the lavendar sachet idea, if it's only under MY pillow I don't see how anyone else in my house can complain.

There are a lot of calming agents...although I haven't heard of using bergamot which is a clarifyier..however mix the lavender with a spot of vanilla for relaxation...also something warm to drink...perhaps a tea or even cocoa will help.. a lot of people find caffeine helps if not combined with sugar.
Try to set yourself a relaxing routine without the "it's time to sleep" thought taking over. When my mind gets into that mode I'm up most of the night. Also a quick carb helps when I'm really geared-- a small bowl of cereal or piece of toast.

Thanks Jaycee. I'll certainly try your suggestions. :)

I tried that -among other minerals - in the form of a hugely overdone prenatal vitamin. I'm sorry to say no relief was found.

The B vitamins in the prenatal might wake you up, thus not giving the calcium/magnesium a chance to calm you.

I use chammomile tea and cal/mag; or just read myself to sleep.

For you:
Rock-a-bye chameleon
On the tree-top
When the wind blows
The recliner will rock
When the bow breaks
The recliner will fall
Then down will come chameleon
Recliner and all.

ya know...that probably didn't help. It's a wonder it soothes babies, either.

Eyeforgot - You reminded me of my mother just then. She would sing me that even now to try to help me sleep. Sweetest woman on the planet.
Now I'm all warm and fuzzy.
...and droozy :faint:

Didn't notice your earlier post Eyeforgot - great plan - I can read that book I'm lying to my sister about! LOL! If anything can put me to sleep it's THAT. And maybe within a few years I'll have it read!

Tonight = Lavender sachet under my pillow, glass of milk and toast, and the dreaded BOOK.
I'm cured just thinking about it! :D
I'll let you know how it went in the morning!

Try depression, It'll make you want to stay in bed and sleep the whole day away .....lol

I go on short bouts of too much sleep too William, but it's due to poor health, not depression. Depression and anxiety cause worry which results in insomnia for me.

Awww. WT, sorry to hear you're low.

chameleon my friend, I wish I could help you. I feel your pain.

you could lose your adderall...works wonders.

Lol! Already "lost" it Lettie, I went off all meds, remember? All at once, cold turkey - 200mgs Adderall IR, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, and klonopin :faint:
several months ago (I have such a terrible sense of time. I know it hasn't been a year yet...maybe 6 months).

Try drinking a warm glass of milk before you go to bed. It contains tryptophan which can cause u to fall asleep. Its minor but it helps me sometimes :)

Have somebody forbid you to sleep. Reverse psychology. Worth a try.:)

I just ran across this on CNN (on sleep) http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/sleep/

madd - thanks! I took the quiz and got all 6 questions WRONG!
No wonder I can't sleep! I'm a MORON! :p

I got half right (glass half full! ;) )


I wonder about not exercising 6-8 hours before bed, I find that I actually sleep better if I exercise at night, I can even fall right to sleep one hour after exercising. :eyebrow:

I thought the part about gaining weight was really weird. I always heard that kids grow in their sleep, so I assumed adults fattened up in their sleep as well.
And that age old truth that you can't make up for lost sleep! Wow was I fooled!

I have tried missing my last dose in the avo to see if that helps, but I still lay there enticing SLEEP! I will read back through the suggestions and try some too...

I have a way to get you to sleep! Watch Wife Swap tonight, one of the moms works out 3 hours per day 7 days a week! She'll tire you out enough!!! ;)

read my posts,

if that doesn't make u fall to sleep nothing will ;)

I usely take a combinaison of any of those things:

-Melatonin: Works only if I'm tired and my brain only needs this little signal that says "time to sleep body". I take it just before closing my eyes or sometimes after having tried to sleep for a few minutes.
-Valerian: When I really need to relax. 30 minutes to 1 hour before going to bed.
-L-Theanine: Helps to relax and improve my sleep. Just before going to before or 1 hour before.
-Bacopa and Rhodiola: Still experimenting with those.
-Beta-blocker: When my dexedrine keeps my heart racing.

I have an excellent article on evidence-based non-pharmacologic treatment for add but I am not sure how I could post it in the thread. Anyone know?

For sleep? Or ADD?

Put a link to it in the Alternative Treatment's section. Just go to the bar with the http:// highlight with the mouse
hit ctrl C
put your mouse in the thread where you want it and click ctrl V

Hope that helps.

Ok, so I have had this problem too for the longest time. Ive also done some research on ADHD and sleep. This is what i have found. Many ADHD people have a hard time getting to sleep at night. Our minds race and keep going. This has to do more with the ADHD type i think, ADD people i know have less of a problem falling asleep as far as i can tell, but i could be wrong, correct me if i am. BUt, i have had this problem for hte longest time, i was taking up to 20mg of ambien (2x the recomended dosage :/) and was still having hard times falling asleep. The reason is, and something i have found out about myself, is that starting about 11 or so, i have a very large rush of energy coming forth, it doesnt always happen , but when i do, i will not get sleep until about 6:00 in the morning if i dont take my ambien.

Something i also read in the article was that taking a stimulant will help you get to sleep, if you take it about 2 hours before you go to sleep. Why is this? THis is because the big rush of energy we can get also has an effect on this. I also read in the article that our circadian clocks are not as stringent as those of normal people, so we can be put off in our sleep patterns. For most people with ADHD, medication is going to be your ONLY answer in getting to sleep better. I have tried everything under the moon and still havent had results, even though im not doing it now, i have a non-medication solution in a second, but its not something that was easy for me, and took an entire change of worldview. But, back to my point, is that using a stimulant 2 hrs before you go to bed may be the only thing that works for you. I have tried vigourus exercise, melitonin, and just about everything under the moon, but really, only medication has been able to work for me until recently.

Now, to my non-medication solution. I am still taking ambien- so its not all non-medication- but i have been able to start to sleep on 1/4 of the dosage that i was only a few weeks ago. I have started to do zen buddhist zazen meditation recently, and actually apply a lot of buddhist thought to my life. This has been helping me start to calm down in my life and help me not have my mind run as much, and just calm down. I still have problems getting to sleep on certian nights and have to take my sleeping medication, but this has really reduced it for me.

But, my suggestion here for you is to not be totally shut off to medication, because it may be the only thing that can help you on certian nights to fall asleep- i hate to say it, and i have wanted a solution that is non-medication too (i hate medication, i am not medicated for my severe adhd and dont plan to be for a while). But... sometimes we have to take a hit to our for our own well being. If we did not have to be up in the morning, this would not be a problem at all, if we could sleep when we wanted to, rather then when we could, but the structure of society and the way the world goes around sometimes necessitates us to adhere to there rules and ideas.

And to the not being tired enough thing, i have sleep apnea and nothing to help me with it, so im always tired, been seeing a sleep specialist about it and should be getting something in a few months, once we find out what exactly is going on with me.

Good luck tater, I hope you get a solution for your sleep apnea.
I am blacklisting meds right now, for the time being anyway. I did use to use sleeping pills - sometimes they'd help but usually they wouldn't. My mind can fight off many a med to keep me awake.
I did find help here though. Attempting to read that boring book my sister sent me helped. I think the milk helped. I was pretty darn tired by the time I tried those though, as I'd missed a couple of night's sleep. My current insomnia record is 6 nights straight. Boy was I goofy :p
Even before surgery, it's really hard for them to knock me out. My mind fights it. I sometimes wonder if it isn't a safety mechanism trying to save me from "nightmare mode". Usually it just feels like I don't want to miss out on something though, like a kid would feel.
Perhaps setting up a routine and following it religiously every night.
Maybe even incorporating listening to a certain song before I try to sleep every night, to signal my brain that it's sleepy time.
Drink milk.
Listen to tranquil melody.
Attempt to read boring book.
Shut out light and close eyes.

I'll probably die of boredom.

That's IT!!!!! Sleep is boring!!!!! That's why I can't sleep! I can't stand the boring phase I need to enter to fall asleep!

Well I don't know what to do with that information. But it was quite an epiphone! :D

I have to sleep in a recliner in the living room due to my health ...Chameleon:

I have done that too. My Asthma gets very bad at times and I cough all night if in bed. I had trouble with sleeping in the living room because I ended up watching TV.

If sleeping in the living room involves having the TV on, it is NOT a good idea.

I did mention to you that I did have some results with relaxation videos that came from TV Ontario our PBS station in Toronto, Ontario. That was about 14 years ago so I don't know if they still offer that video course.

I did a quick search and I could not find the course the Relaxation Response by Eli Bay listed in TVO's current programs. [I spelled his name wrong in the PM to you.]

You can find TVO's web site at http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa


The web site for Eli Bay's Relaxation Response institute in Toronto, Ontario is at:
http://www.elibay.com/

I have no connection with either of those organizations.

The Eli Bay/TVO course material helped me get some sleep. It was the best I had found up until I tried Ritalin. It was however not even close to the wonderful results I have had from Ritalin. I now for the first time in my life regularly get a full nights sleep.:faint: :faint: :faint:

Best wishes and good luck,

-Vic :faint:

Thanks for the info Vic.
As a matter of fact, the tv is NEVER on after my husband goes to bed. I'm not a tv watcher myself.
I'll check into the relaxation links you posted. That's kind of along the tranquil music idea I think, only better!

Tried it.
I don't believe there is a time limit for good nutrition and cardio exercise before we scrap it as useless. :D

NO I meant I tried using it FOR A SLEEP AID.
I still exercise and eat right. It's just that no matter how much or little I exercised - it made no difference in my ability to fall asleep.

"I have an excellent article on evidence-based non-pharmacologic treatment for add but I am not sure how I could post it in the thread. Anyone know?"

Woops I meant sleep. It is in a pdf file that is just a file - no url bar. so I am not sure how to post that. Cant even copy the text.

get your significant other to clobber you over the head with a phone directory !! works wonders and never leaves a mark !

"I have an excellent article on evidence-based non-pharmacologic treatment for add but I am not sure how I could post it in the thread. Anyone know?"

Woops I meant sleep. It is in a pdf file that is just a file - no url bar. so I am not sure how to post that. Cant even copy the text.I don't know, but I hope someone helps you figure out. I'd love to read it. :)

cham,

i have this problem and i think i know the solution, step away from the computer ;)

may sound silly but i think thats my problem, i seem to be the same as u as far as lack of sleep goes, i have alot of american contacts so usually i'm awake talking to them which is giving me constant stimulaion, which is probably why i've changed and become more alert during the night, cause i mean lets face it, computer students conversations have to be some of the most boring in the world.

the trouble is the actually stepping away from the computer cause u don't wanna miss anything at all, even though theres probably nothing to miss but u don't wanna take that chance :P

yeah! like when my computer shut off on me, I was so upset and wondering what I was missing!:mad:

:D You're so right Lee :D

But if it wasn't the computer, it would be television, wouldn't it? And if it wasn't the television, it would be sorting pebbles, or making jewelry or painting or poetry writing or...or... :D

yeah....i know, i was actually kinda hopin u would of missed that gaigantic hole in that plan :P

I can email anyone a copy of the article if you pm me an email address.

well...chammomile tea and well..sorry 1 tsp makers mark!

sorry..that is whisky in case you didn't know.
warm bath? I also find a way to clear my mind ...b /c it wont' stop talking to me sometimes at 11pm is quick opening of my door to the outside and I look up at the sky and kinda visualize my thoughts heading up somewhere else.

Melatonin kinda worked for me.

What I used to do in college was put together a "Sleep CD" with songs that had a calming effect for me - like parts of the soundtrack to "Edward Scissorhands".

I had severe insomnia due to a job I hated and what really helped was a sleep CD made by The Hypnosis Network (you can order it off that site or get it at Amazon too). It took a few days, but I was able to fall asleep pretty quickly after that. After a while, I didn't even have to use the CD, I just imagined hearing the music and it'd put me to sleep pretty quickly.

If one doesn't want to use any kind of medications, then usually the only alternative is to try something like Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT). I know that other people have cut down EFT, because they probably have not tried it and so to them it does not work. Or they tried it once and it didn't "work."

It is fairly simple to learn and the manual is free, so I don't know what harm there is in trying it. Many medical doctors and psychologists use it in their practices. One instance of it helping sleep problems can be found at: www.emofree.com/cases/sleepdisorder.htm (http://www.emofree.com/cases/sleepdisorder.htm)

Sometimes people using EFT think that their problems are going to be solved with one session, but this is not always the case. Sometimes it takes several sessions or persistence to get at the core issues.

I was reccently dx's with Limbic ADD, I have always known I was ADD, but, the Limbic is new to me. Anyway, my counselor suggested many things I do to help.

One of them closely relates to sleep. She told me to try lavendar aromatherapy. I put a couple of drops on a cotton ball last night and placed it in my pillowcase. I did my nightly 'bedtime meditation', and, I slept better than I have in a long, long time. My brain wasn't spinning while I was trying to go to sleep or anything, I woke up feeling rested, which hasn't happened for years.

I know this may not work for everyone, but, it worked so well for me, that I thought some of you might like to know.:)

I am what I would refer to as medication averse. I was diagnosed about a year ago and was put on Ritalin and Strattera right away. Eventually I was weened of Ritalin and left with only Strattera, which did absolutely nothing to help my ADD. So I went back to the stimulant. Anyways, after about 6 months I really started to worry about the side effects of the stimulant (bad family history with respect to heart conditions), so I got off it cold turkey. Anyways.....in the meantime while on Ritalin I was also given a prescription for Xanax to fall asleep. I must say it was a God-send because opposed to when I used to lay in bed for 30-40 minutes staring at the ceiling I know literally flop onto the bed and am out within minutes. So therefore I have continued to take it even though I don't take a stimulant during the day. There is a tad bit of groginess in the morning, i.e. my head feels a bit heavy when initially waking up and usually I am awoken during the middle of a dream, but I think that after my morning shower I actually start to see that I had a good deep sleep and it leaves me in a better frame to combat the syptoms of ADD the next day without having to take the stimulant!

caffrey,
That is wonderful! It is great to hear people happy with what they are doing. There is nothing worse than wondering what to try next...
You are lucky that you can get yourself up to get in the shower to wake up...I can't seem to get up to try to wake up....:(

cham,

i have this problem and i think i know the solution, step away from the computer ;)


My husband pointed out that bright lights at night don't help maintain the natural sleep/wake cycles, and my computer screen is exceptionally bright. So here I am at 2 a.m. on the computer.... If I can't sleep, I work, what else to do? The artificial dawn simulator idea is interesting but I don't see how that would slow the brain down at night.

I'm an ADHD consutant in England and work with lots of people with sleep problems. Many suggest sleeping in a 'sleeping bag' helps them feel more snug. It seems to be the moving about at night time that wakes them up, the sleeping bag stops this. Good luck, give it a try.... ALANOkay, this is getting ridiculous.
Some nights I just cannot sleep. Yet I can be tired up to bedtime, and right before it's time to get up. So tired, in fact, that I can barely keep my eyes open. But when I SHOULD be sleeping I'm bright and bushy tailed!
I really need a fix for this, because it completely trashes me for the next day.
No meds for an answer please.
Coffee usually puts me to sleep, but not on these occasions.
It's like I'm a rebellious child who doesn't want to "miss anything", or maybe I just love the alone time so much it invigorates me. Whatever the reason, it seriously needs to stop. This happens to me several nights a week, and has since I got a hysterectomy.
I can sleep just fine once the night's over - but if I do it just sets me up for another sleepless night - so it's not a lack of tiredness that's the problem here.
Exercise doesn't help.
Help!