Again, I am a doubting Thomas and not in it for a sales pitch, but when something this profound happens to me, and I have personally witnessed it, I just dont think it is right to not share such a profound sucess story.

That would just be selfish:(

I am by no means a Dr. However I am pretty sure that everyone would agree that nutrition plays a key element in our overall wellbeing.

Try Drinking beer and eating McDonalds and Pizza for a few months and see what happens.:)

No matter how well we stick to the FDA food pyramid we are gonna miss some key ingredients and compounds that are naturally occurring in a well balanced diet, our bodies simply do not break the foods down enough to get the stuff we need out of them, not to mention the Western Diet is the worst in the world, take China's life expectancy vs the U.S. life expectancy for example.

We arent even consistent with the FDA pyramid:) We are all guilty.

Something in the product "Reliv" enabled my son and myself to mentally stabilize and stop searching for a cure through the Medicine cabinet, and the Dr's office.
No more Zombie Kid with wild mood swings:)

All I know is the results are proof enough for me, and I cant possibly believe that my son and myself would be the only ones in the whole wide world that would ever benefit from this.
That is my whole point of sharing my story.

I have read several of the post's that people are seeking out supplement because the drugs arent working, or a lot of the post's have a redundant tone that says "they are increasing the dose and nothing is getting better"

I see a lot of the post's that truly sound so familiar to what we as a family went through, I hope maybe someone else can benefit from this. There are litterally countless sucess stories in relationship to ADD-ADHD and the products from Reliv.

I couldnt believe it, I know of one kid and one adult personally, and another kid who is no longer lactose intolerant and another who no longer has echzema, and I am proud to say they are all my children.

Just trying to help someone else
Sincerely
Greg

What is Reliv?

There Is NO (Outside the Companies Marketing this Stuff) Research Substantiating ANY Nutritional Or Dietary As Clinical Treatments For ADHD.

ZERO.

I know you say it's not a sales pitch, but it sure reads like one, especially since I've seen your other posts about it.
Happy you found something that works for you though :)

Reliv is a patented as a food.
It is a dietary supplement that fills in the gaps that our normal diet misses.
I along with countless physicians believe our diet plays a key role in a lot of our medical problems. A very wide range of problems in fact.
A simple example is Lipitor a drug used to lower your cholestorol, or you may opt for diet control. Your choice.
Stick with the Biggie fries, that's what the Lipitor is for.:)
How about diet controlled diabetes? Eat all the sugar you want, we make insulin and needles by the droves daily.

When the body is given the proper nutrients (and we arent sure what those are)a lot of the problems go away.

Including the afforementioned ADD and ADHD and milk allergy and eczema that my family was experiencing.

I have read a lot of post on here where people are trying everything that the GNC has to offer. One was trying to figure out what type of fish oil is best.

I have also read a lot of post's where people are rebounding from medications only to find themselves caught in a contradictory diagnosis between there PhD. and there Phychiatrist and the dilema of whom to listen to and what meds are right.
Please dont get me wrong, I am not denying the reality of the problem, heart attacks exist too, but that just leads back to proper diet.

Challenge yourself to see if you are really getting the proper diet.
Use the outdated FDA food Pyramid as a baseline. Most people arent even close to that.

Is it so hard to believe that our diet has something to do with this?
I have personally witnessed it.

PS: chameleon, I apologize if my other posts read like a sales pitch.
Just trying to get the word out.

I'm glad you have found something helpful to your family.:)

Scattered

In my opinion, this one reads like a sales pitch too.
But maybe I'm just oversensitive to the thought of an unscrupulous salesman coming onto our board, who's members I consider family, and weaseling his way in to try to hock his snake oil.
It would really bother me if that ever happened.
Again, I'm glad you found something that works for you.

There Is NO (Outside the Companies Marketing this Stuff) Research Substantiating ANY Nutritional Or Dietary As Clinical Treatments For ADHD.

ZERO.
Reliv - Evelyn C. Mayuga, Occupational Therapist, wrote to us saying......
"I am an independent distributor of Reliv food supplement products. These products are 100% derived from organic botanical sources. The parents who have discovered these products for their children who were on medication for ADHD are greatly thankful for the company for having provided the answer for their family's source of crisis. There is one particular story of a nine-year old boy from Calgary, Alberta in Canada who was classified as a severe behavioral problem in school which escalated to the home setting, with him not being able to relate with his siblings. Consequently, he tried to burn the furniture in his home that sent his parents searching desperately for answers to their son's medical problems.


He has been on the Reliv products for three years now and last year, he was able to catch up with his academic level in school. Just looking at him now and how well he is doing will not give away any clue that he once suffered so much from the ADHD syndrome.


The Reliv products are manufactured in St. Louis, Mis. and have been in the market for 11(eleven) years. Most of their products have a patent on the formulation and approved by the US FDA. I can assure you that there is nothing similar in the market. It comes in powder form that you mix with either milk or juice and can be consumed by infants as well. This makes the product easily absorbable and assimilated by the body which responds accordingly at the cellular level. It is safe, and has been proven that it works!


Recently, they have introduced a new product specifically designed to augment the health and development of growing children aged from infancy to pre-teens. It contains the natural nutrients needed in developing the brain cells (nervous system) and the balanced formulation of the essential vitamins, minerals, amino-acids, herbs and other nutrients that are needed to have healthy, functioning cells in the body.

Chameleon, I do not take the ADHD problem lightly, and I can understand your defensive stance.
Maybe it would be better if we just worked it out with the forum moderator.
I do take offense to every post I place being determined a sales pitch. That not only destroys my credibility, but may deter someone from trying something that may work for there child.
Especially since all I am trying to do is help.

Allow me.

I guess I could say something really simple like

Reliv worked for me and my son, the Concerta, Adderall, zyprexa, zolft, paxil and all of the other meds left gaping holes that were unexplained by the Dr's and Psychitrists, they just kept trying to fill the holes with more meds.

We had to draw the line somewhere. We were losing our son, and all I could see was this outcast little boy turning into a Dylan Klebold.
Not on my watch, It was time to do something. So I agreed to Reliv.

I, too, am glad that you have found something that has improved your situation and can understand the desire to pass on how good you feel that things are working out.

I think the concern here is that people will be misled into thinking that "reliv" is an answer to ADHD in and of itself and that is normally not the case. Dietary supplements, change of diet, elimination of certain foods, attention to chemical additives, etc. can help improve many, many situations and I'm all for everyone living a healthy, well-balanced life. However, alone it will not be enough to deal with ADHD.

Treating ADHD, in my opinion, involves therapy, close contact with a doctor who has experience dealing with ADHD and all of the co-morbids that can occur, and a active support system. True, not all who have ADD or ADHD need medications, but every single option needs to be considered when dealing with a diagnosis of ADHD.

Thank you for sharing your success, but don't forget to share the other experiences and help that may have also contributed to your situation.

Kim

all I have to say is, I have tried different options for my 17 yo son. None worked. He started Adderall XR in Dec. and it is awesome. We have bee lucky. No side affects, no zombie like boy. His grades went up to A's and B's from C's, D's and F's. His self esteem went way up because his grades went way up.

So I agreed to Reliv.Sounds like the company's catch phrase.

However, I am in the correct section of the board to discuss misc. treatments and approaches. This is correct?

I would definetely understand a more agressive approach from other members if I was out in the main area's of the board that are "specific to drug therapy" approaches.

It appears to me that some of the members are adamant to any other course of treatment and collide with anyone trying to discuss it. Almost as if they are purposely suppressing the notion altogether, and attempting to suppress the person making the post.
This is unfortunate.
I did not expect to be scrutinized and analyzed in the correct forum.

There was a very long thread where a gentleman(also a newbie) found himself in what he called a "boxing match" and a moderator was involved to keep it on track. Interesting reading. He was also trying to discuss dietary control.

You did ask that I post other things that led to our success.
Well, we just slowly started weening him off of all of the Meds (with the Dr's help)
and maintained the two Reliv shakes a day, and that is honestly the simple truth.
This was a child that would throw desks, burn holes thru his paper with an eraser when he made a mistake, incredible mood swings. The whole basic description found in most posts.

I really expected a warmer reception.
Do you think if Reliv was marketed as a drug it would receive more positive attention?
I cant control that, it is simply a patented as a food supplement, that works.

Thanks for your reply Kim
Greg F

Sounds like the company's catch phrase.

What quantifies as a flame on this board??
I would have to say that is pretty close.:)
Let me first say that I have no problem agreeing to disagree.
Secondly I would like to say that I am in the correct forum and still getting a bashing.
What is up with that?

All I said was Reliv works, and I am sure my family is not an isolated incident.
Can we agree to disagree?

What quantifies as a flame on this board??
I would have to say that is pretty close.:)
Let me first say that I have no problem agreeing to disagree.
Secondly I would like to say that I am in the correct forum and still getting a bashing.
What is up with that?

All I said was Reliv works, and I am sure my family is not an isolated incident.
Can we agree to disagree?How is that a flame???
What you said simply rhymed and I commented that it sounded like a company's catch phrase!
I certainly haven't bashed you pcrenovation, nor did anyone else here.
I expressed my opinions in a civilized manner.
I also don't "disagree". What's to disagree about? You think something helped your family. Great. I never disagreed with that. I never said, "No, it didn't help your family".

In light of the fact that we obviously have very different opinions in reference to nutritional therapy, and the broad statements that "everything sounds like a sales pitch" I am again concerned that statements between you and I are not necessarily in the best interest of this board, and this forum in particular.
Is this forum not geared toward Misc Treatments and Approaches?

That is why I place my post's here. It is an alternative approach.
May we Agree to Disagree that our opinions differ about treatment options?

Greg F
Reliv Worked for us

I am a Licensed(Clinical/Child) Psychologist in Minnesota.

I was dx'd with ADHD (only it was called MBD then) in 1972.

I work at a rural non-profit community mental health center.

I've been here 22+ yrs.

What's happened over time is that I've spent the last 18 + yrs amking ADHD my primary area of expertise with the State Board.

I'm also an Approved ADHD Examiner by every managed care panel we deal with in this state.

Without really trying to, my practice has become 90-95% ADHD children between 6 -19 yrs.

I have the largestr non medical ADHD practice in this aprt of the state.

I still read an avg of an hour a day, 5 days a week on ADHD.

I've trained with Russ Barkley along the way.

My statement is 100% accurate.

My references are:

The US Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health : Chapter 3 (Disorders of Infancy, Childhoos & Adolescence)

& The ADHD Handbook : Third Edition (2005) by Russell Barkley


I could list more....BECAUSE THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING


PS

This isn' t warm receptions, although I assure you I wasn't trying to be rude to you.

It's about accuracy, & legitimacy.

What I qouted is the state of the science.

In light of the fact that we obviously have very different opinions in reference to nutritional therapy, and the broad statements that "everything sounds like a sales pitch" I am again concerned that statements between you and I are not necessarily in the best interest of this board, and this forum in particular.
Is this forum not geared toward Misc Treatments and Approaches?

That is why I place my post's here. It is an alternative approach.
May we Agree to Disagree that our opinions differ about treatment options?

Greg F
Reliv Worked for usI would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't misquote me pcrenovation. I never said "everything sounds like a sales pitch".
And as far as you being, "... concerned that statements between you and I are not necessarily in the best interest of this board, and this forum in particular." I can only reply that discussions on difference of opinions are not only a healthy thing "in the interest of this board", but they are part of the make up that makes this board so great. If we all kept our mouths shut and believed you with blind faith, we really wouldn't learn much, now would we?
As to your remark, "It is an alternative approach.
May we Agree to Disagree that our opinions differ about treatment options?" I must again inform you that I do not disagree with alternative approaches as a whole, that would be very narrow minded of me indeed.
If you're going to come here and swear to the heavens above that you've found the cure for ADD, then you'd better be ready to take some heat in the form of differing of opinions.
I might suggest that you don't take the examination of your claim so personally, just provide us with some valid research results so we have something to work with here.
As I've said, I'm glad you've found a product that you believe has helped your family, and I respect your opinion of it. But without proof, I can't condone a claim that it will relieve ADD symptoms to a great degree.

Would you feel comfortable in saying that diet has absolutely no relationship to ADHD?

I respect your years of dedication to this disorder.
What would you claim to be the primary reason that this disorder is selective in nature, affecting only certain people?

I read an interesting report that Ritalin actually changes the chromosones?
Have you heard anything in reference to this?

Respectfully
Greg F

Would you feel comfortable in saying that diet has absolutely no relationship to ADHD?That depends on what you mean by "relationship".

I respect your years of dedication to this disorder.
What would you claim to be the primary reason that this disorder is selective in nature, affecting only certain people?
See, that's the difference between you and me - I don't make claims so lightly. I suggest you pose that question to mctavish, he's in the medical profession. I am not, so I don't venture to make "claims" on the subject.
Mctavish would be a good one to refer to on your Ritalin report too, if it's got grounds to it, I'm sure he's read it.

Yes I would; simply because that what the research has consistently shown since the 1970's.

I have read "research" from the different companies marketing their various products, as to the fact they work.

However, the "gold standard " for all research is that it meets longitudinal (long term) validity & reliability.

That means: Does it really measure what it says it does and (most importantly) can outside observers ( not affiliated with the company) reproduce the exact same study and get the exact same results?

That has NOT happened.

That depends on what you mean by "relationship".


See, that's the difference between you and me - I don't make claims so lightly. I suggest you pose that question to mctavish, he's in the medical profession. I am not, so I don't venture to make "claims" on the subject.
Mctavish would be a good one to refer to on your Ritalin report too, if it's got grounds to it, I'm sure he's read it.It appears that he is the authority with the most experience, so naturally, I want his opinion.

My post was directed to him:)

Greg F

My apologies, since your post fell AFTER mine, I naturally assumed your questions were directed to me.
Absolutely mctavish knows what he's talking about. Listen to what he says. He's one smart cookie :)

Sometimes people's posts overlap because they've responded so close together.

You DID post in the correct section for this pc. I think many of us have experienced the "snake oil salesman" before, the family and friends that don't "believe" that ADD even "exists" and a myriad of other walls we bang our heads up against, well, we get a little gun shy. You're guilty until proven innocent.

From my experience I know that the vitamins I take, excellent ones actually, help me a lot with my physical health mostly, but I can feel the difference mentally. However, not enough of a difference. I have gone the natural route but what I really needed was medical care for my bipolar/ADD. Bipolar is genetic, no amount of food is going to cure it. Maybe, for some, the symptoms lessen, or seem "better". If we feel better physically that can certainly effect our mental state and emotions. Same with excercise.

For me, those things did not work. They acted like a band-aid and band-aids fall off. Good nutrition and excercise will benefit me in many ways, but for my ADD/bipolar the natural route was a road to frustration.

Eyeforgot

I am so sorry that the natural route did not work for you.

My job demands exercise (wether I want it or not) so I got that part irregardless, and my Reliv daily.

The combination of the natural parts in there product is what did it for myself and my family.

I guess the researchers at Reliv tried over 800 different combinations over a 20+ year time frame before they came up with what they have now.
There researchers all appear to be as passionate as all of the board members here, so that helps.

I do know that one of there products is for Cardio and is about to receive an FDA approval for its restorative properties to damaged heart muscle. Sometime in June, I believe.

I know, nothing to do with ADD or BIPolar, but it sounds promising that someone is trying, and has the R&D dollars to do so.

Maybe someday somehow a common thread can be woven through all of this, and maybe someday we will have a cure for a lot of the worlds diseases.:)

Maybe it would be better if we just worked it out with the forum moderator.

Well, I'm sure one will be contacting you soon.

I'm sorry you're offended by the references to sales pitches, but posting anecdotes you copied off the manufacturer's website, pushing a product in numerous threads, and posting subjective & misleading reviews of studies that are twisted to support a view that diet is related to ADHD (when in fact there is much well-documented and solid evidence that diet is not related to ADHD)
sure looks like a sales pitch for dietary "cures" to me.

I have already informed a moderator and this thread is being monitored.

I also found something that has been helpful to both of my children. Their program is called SharperPrograms. You can find their website by keying that in the search engine. Just so you know, I have no affilation with this company or the product. I just want to share with others what has worked for us. I purchased these programs for both my children, my daughter is dyslexic, and my son is ADD and dyslexic. They have been using it for about 5 weeks, and I am actually starting to see a difference in both of them. My son is starting to focus more on the things he's suppose to, and has actually started doing his homework by himself, without my help to get him back on track. My daughter is starting to enjoy reading, and is able to do more of it. They have only just started these programs, and I can see the difference, and it gets better each week. For anyone who does not want to use meds, it is definitely worthwhile checking out. They have clinically proven that it works. I am seeing it work with my children.
For all those that say there is nothing else but meds, you are wrong because there is something else. Medication is just the band aid approach. These programs correct and repair the brain. I am sure there are many of you that say it is impossible and ADD cannot be corrected, but it can because I am seeing it happen with my son.

I also found something that has been helpful to both of my children. Their website is www.sharperprograms.com (http://www.sharperprograms.com/) Just so you know, I have no affilation with this company or the product. I just want to share with others what has worked for us. I purchased these programs for both my children, my daughter is dyslexic, and my son is ADD and dyslexic. They have been using it for about 5 weeks, and I am actually starting to see a difference in both of them. My son is starting to focus more on the things he's suppose to, and has actually started doing his homework by himself, without my help to get him back on track. My daughter is starting to enjoy reading, and is able to do more of it. They have only just started these programs, and I can see the difference, and it gets better each week. For anyone who does not want to use meds, it is definitely worthwhile checking out. They have clinically proven that it works. I am seeing it work with my children.
For all those that say there is nothing else but meds, you are wrong because there is something else. Medication is just the band aid approach. These programs correct and repair the brain. I am sure there are many of you that say it is impossible and ADD cannot be corrected, but it can because I am seeing it happen with my son.Yeah. I read your other post in the natural treatment forum here.

For all those that say there is nothing else but meds, you are wrong because there is something else. Medication is just the band aid approach. These programs correct and repair the brain. I am sure there are many of you that say it is impossible and ADD cannot be corrected, but it can because I am seeing it happen with my son....oh god... don't tempt me. :faint:

Please someone? Have I entered some forum portal to Crazyville???

Chameleon.. i'm sorry it took me so long to get here. I skimmed the posts, and can see how strongly you feel. I'm going to try and smooth feathers... like you do for me a lot, but I'm really bad at smoothing, and mucho better a ruffling.
... I was just saying earlier.. where is Barbyma, because I felt the posts about the Reliv were very misleading, and contrary to all the scientific evidence as applies to ADHD. I am, however, lazy.. and know I would have to do research to back my claims. I thought if Barbyma was around, she would post the studies and evidence which would absolutely refute such claims. I'm thinking (i may be wrong) that maybe she felt, because we've discussed science, proof, herbal remedies..etc.. at length that it would be superfluous at this point. I don't mean to say your intentions or what you were thinking Barbyma...just guessing.
..Anyway, I do feel the need to post. I am soooo happy you have found something which works for you and your family. How great it would be if we could all find such a fix. I, also, am an a great believer in nutrition and it's healing powers. I watched my Mother-in-Law, who has a doctorate in nutrition, place a loved one on the Micro-biotic diet, for cancer where, the person was only expected to live a few more months. This person lived for two years, until they tired of this stict regimented diet and began to eat as they please. They passed within two months. I don't know if it was coincidence or not...but very powerful example. My Mother, who is also plagued by many illenesses, several autoimmune diseases, at one point found a combination of vitamins called Dr. Rinses formula which greatly improved her health. Having said that, until now I have never heard of these types of things curing a genetic brain disorder. I tend to agree, that if we all had optimum nutrition, some might see great improvement in some symptoms... but most likely this would be because with the optimum nutrition, you body is better equipped to deal with stress, tends to get better rest, and some other advantages which many speak of helping with their ADD symptoms.
..I don't think anyone here is trying to discourage another from trying something which may help them... it's just a really idea around here to make such cure-all claims without an ounce of proof. If something is not harmful to your health, and someone wishes to try something bc they believe it will help... then that is great, because the mind's belief in a particular cure..may also be very powerful med. But, that is probably more for those where their brain functions properly.
..Most of us just feel this is a serious place to find serious information to help with our problems (i know.. ms. bad behavior saying this) and want to protect others from either wasting money, getting hopes up, or investing time in something where all scientific evidence tends to refute.

...several days ago there was a post by a new person claiming how stay at home mom's, or anyone els could make some money... and all it would cost them was 6 dollars and some stamps. The claim was that this was perfectly legal (as they had consulted an attorney.. and the scam had worked for them) I felt an obligation as an attorney to make sure none of the people attempted this without having all the information they would need to make a decision... so I posted my opinion, which was this was a very typical scam, and I hope nobody fell for it. As I was typing my response, the thread disappeared right from under my fingers..bc the Mods recognized this as well. So... if you really believe in this, and think it could really help some people... back up your claims, and bring something else to the table. If you really want to help then..bless you. If you are just trying to push the snake oil... then I hope you can't tolerate the guilt, and will take off the opinions.

sorry...ramble ramble ramble

Well, I'm sure one will be contacting you soon.

I'm sorry you're offended by the references to sales pitches, but posting anecdotes you copied off the manufacturer's website, pushing a product in numerous threads, and posting subjective & misleading reviews of studies that are twisted to support a view that diet is related to ADHD (when in fact there is much well-documented and solid evidence that diet is not related to ADHD)
sure looks like a sales pitch for dietary "cures" to me.Whoa:eek: Where did that come from!!
That was yesterday, I have long since moved on.
I have been Conversing with mctavish about numerous studies that he has pointed me towards.
If it looks like a sales pitch, then maybe I'm in the wrong line of work, because that was certainly not my intention. Just my success story, that's all.
The only thing I copied from another site was that dietary study.
Everything else I copied was from my own post's to save the typing.
It is no big deal, it just seemed a little late to come flying in like that.

As far as pushing a product I guess there is a lot of guilt to go around, I read and have read a lot of folks singing the praises of Adderall, Staterra, Concerta, Ritalin. (bold is mine)

I was just sharing my success story, and that is all. Reliv worked for me and my family.

At least the other members were happy I've found something that works.
Are you happy?

Chameleon,
You seem know everything about ADD, maybe you could explain to me why you think biofeedback doesn't correct the condition when there has been lots of studies to prove it does. Do you know what biofeedback is?

If you want to find out all about biofeedback, go to the search engines.

Why do all those who think drugs are the only answer think that when someone says that there is an alternative, they think we are trying to sell something? Fact is, this is an alternative that has worked for my children.
For all those that want to use drugs, so be it. The drug companies will love you for it. Not everyone wants to dose themselves up with drugs, especially when the long term side effects are not known.

I already know about feedback. I've tried it. Thought it was about the dumbest ADD treatment I've ever been talked into, right up there with electro shock therapy to treat ADD.

I never said I think drugs are the only answer.

For your information, I'm not currently taking ANY meds, or powders, or potions, or witchcraft, or voodoo for my ADHD. But I have tried many many treatments, some were more helpful than others.

As is the polite norm here I say - I'm happy you've found something that works for you and your family! Have a nice day! :)

Sorry Chameleon if I tire you. I was talking to BarbyMa, and simply pointing out that the whole sales pitch thing was resolved.:)

I just didnt feel like defending myself from another relentless onslaught of questions, and proving everything.
My testimony is the only documented proof I currently have.That will change.I am sure that will be the case with most non FDA governed alternatives treattments.
However, the problems we had that were associated with the ADHD are now gone using Reliv.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen the first post that makes that same claim for any of the scientifically backed meds. that are mentioned here.

I will have more testimonies from other people soon, real people, with very similar stories.
No, I wont have a full blown FDA approval guide or test sheet showing all of the information.
What good is that information anyway if the problem is still there after you use the medication?
Just a lot of bothersome side effects, but hey:D we can fix that with this pill, and if this one causes this side effect let me write you this script.:confused:

You see, I have been there, done that. I am not an idiot.
I fully understand blind placebo testing and the positive effect that the mind can generate without anything but a happy thought.

No one has yet come forward and said this medication will fix it,and
I did not say that Reliv would fix it either, I did however say that it worked for me and my family, and I am sure we are not the only ones that may benefit from this.:D

Not everyone wants to dose themselves up with drugs, especially when the long term side effects are not known.Most of the drugs used to treat ADHD have been studied for decades. We know more about them than just about any other drug.

Biofeedback has not been proven to cure ADHD. If you want to convince me otherwise, show me one peer-reviewed study showing this conclusively.

If there were a proven alternative to stimulant meds for ADHD, it would be on the front page of every newspaper in North America, and on the 7:00 news on every TV station.

The reason you can only find out about this stuff from the people selling it ought to tell you something. And the answer is not that the "powerful drug companies" are somehow quashing valid research. This stuff has been researched to the gills.

But that said, I am glad you have found something that works for you and your family. :D

...I love you Uminchu...:D

Dont worry, stick to what you know is working.
I too am a strong advocate of alternatives to drugs, especially since we are not quite clear of the long term effects yet.
But trust me when I tell you this, even though you are in the correct forum for posting to alternatives, most of these kind folks would love some sort of FDA style approval sheet, you know the kind the pharmacist prints out and stuffs into your bag with your pills.

Basically what a lot of people want is proof that it works, if you are going to make a statement that something works.

If you are the only proof that it works, prepare for an onslaught of questions.
It is guilty until proven true.

Just a heads up

Greg F
Reliv worked for me and my Family:)

Sorry Chameleon if I tire you. I was talking to BarbyMa, and simply pointing out that the whole sales pitch thing was resolved.:) It's not been resolved with me. I saw how Reliv works. I went to their site and saw how it's like Amway with distributors clawing their way through each other to make a buck. This board is heavenly fertile hunting grounds for such a distributor, and yes, I'm protective of my friends here.

I just didnt feel like defending myself from another relentless onslaught of questions, and proving everything.Then don't come on this board and claim miracle cures! Anyone who does is going to be subjected to an onslaught of questions and demands to prove their claims!

My testimony is the only documented proof I currently have.That will change.I am sure that will be the case with most non FDA governed alternatives treattments.
However, the problems we had that were associated with the ADHD are now gone using Reliv.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen the first post that makes that same claim for any of the scientifically backed meds. that are mentioned here.

I will have more testimonies from other people soon, real people, with very similar stories.
No, I wont have a full blown FDA approval guide or test sheet showing all of the information.
What good is that information anyway if the problem is still there after you use the medication?
Just a lot of bothersome side effects, but hey:D we can fix that with this pill, and if this one causes this side effect let me write you this script.:confused:

You see, I have been there, done that. I am not an idiot.
I fully understand blind placebo testing and the positive effect that the mind can generate without anything but a happy thought.

No one has yet come forward and said this medication will fix it,and
I did not say that Reliv would fix it either, I did however say that it worked for me and my family, and I am sure we are not the only ones that may benefit from this.:DI don't want testimony. I want valid, scientific research results.

But I'm glad you found something that works for you and your family! :D

Chameleon,
You seem know everything about ADD, maybe you could explain to me why you think biofeedback doesn't correct the condition when there has been lots of studies to prove it does. Do you know what biofeedback is?
...I can assure you Chameleon is very familiar with many different treatments and their effects. I just suggested that maybe she take a break before she gets in trouble. She among others I've seen here, are very interested in credible, scientifically tested methods which have the potential to positively effect ADHD.
... Are you a distributor of this "remedy" or not. I think many just have a problem swallowing as credible information data produced by someone who can win a trip if they push enough pills. I did go and check out the web-site for this product, and the similarities with the Amway craze were profound. There are rallies, training, trips and prizes to those who "succeed in spreading the word". As I recall, those people were just as spirited and angry in defending those products. I think all anyone around here asks is some unbiased reliable proof.

And as for FredMerc...Around here, we believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion a we all on occassion hotly disagree, but all i've seen from you here... is an attack on a longstanding, well loved member, without any true info within the posts... this is just my opinion, but I think that is a really bad idea.

...as for mctavish, i would be very interested in what he has to say. i have seen many posts from him which involve alternative type treatment. mctavish has been around a long time, and in my short time here, have seen nothing but respect for the forums in his post. i also believe he understands the importance of reliable info.. i have not seen a post from mcctavish about this, but maybe if there were, he could discuss the studies and info in an accurate and intelligent manner, and i'm sure many would listen.

As for the meds.. i don't know of many around here who believe that any specific med is the comp answer to these problems. Many choose not to medicate and look into other methods, and i support their decision 100%. My personal opinion is I believe some of the current medications can relieve many symptoms of ADHD.. but I also believe there is much more work to be done. I'm a big believer in an emotional/behavioral therapy called REBT.. it has worked wonders for me. There are many people who don't like it at all.. but that's okay.. i'm not selling anything, or receive a trip to cancun if get people to sign up for REBT. I think meds, some sort of therapy, coaching, proper nutrition, exercise, general healthy living, are all necessary to manage ADHD. I'm sorry I just haven't heard of..until now.. or seen any proof that a specific nutritional or herbal type suplement has any profound benefit upon ADHD.

Oops, my bad. Let me make a correction pcrenovation. When i saw the post about you discussing studies with mctavish..etc.. the way it was worded, to me seemed like a kind of endorsement or support from said person. I went back, and realized mctavish already posted and made opinions known.. i apoligize.

They have clinically proven that it works.

No, they have not. If you make claims like this, please provide citations to peer-reviewed research that supports the claim.


Medication is just the band aid approach. These programs correct and repair the brain.
Medication is NOT a "band aid" any more than insulin is a band aid to diabetics.

There is no "program" that can repair one's brain! Period.

The only thing I copied from another site was that dietary study.
Everything else I copied was from my own post's to save the typing.?
Try again. Here's a "testamonial" that's on several webpages selling this product. You quoted it here as if it is supposed to mean something.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=271007&postcount=8

Chameleon,
You seem know everything about ADD, maybe you could explain to me why you think biofeedback doesn't correct the condition when there has been lots of studies to prove it does. Do you know what biofeedback is?
I can confidently say that Chameleon does indeed know what biofeedback is, as do I.

I realize you didn't ask this of me, but I can explain why I think biofeedback doesn't correct the condition: because there have been NO studies to prove it does. In fact, studies demonstrate repeatedly that it does not.

... I was just saying earlier.. where is Barbyma, because I felt the posts about the Reliv were very misleading, and contrary to all the scientific evidence as applies to ADHD. I am, however, lazy.. and know I would have to do research to back my claims. I thought if Barbyma was around, she would post the studies and evidence which would absolutely refute such claims. I'm thinking (i may be wrong) that maybe she felt, because we've discussed science, proof, herbal remedies..etc.. at length that it would be superfluous at this point. I don't mean to say your intentions or what you were thinking Barbyma...just guessing.

Sorry! I've been swamped.:o I'm not even finished reading this thread yet.....

But, it's nice to know I've been missed!:D

I do think it's a bit like beating a dead horse, but it still has to be done!

I won't post studies refuting this stuff, though, because there aren't any studies that support it. If studies proporting to support it are posted, I'll show why those are not credible, though!

We seem to have picked up quite a few snake oil pitches in the last few days....:eyebrow:

Sorry! I've been swamped.:o I'm not even finished reading this thread yet.....

But, it's nice to know I've been missed!:D

I do think it's a bit like beating a dead horse, but it still has to be done!

I won't post studies refuting this stuff, though, because there aren't any studies that support it. If studies proporting to support it are posted, I'll show why those are not credible, though!

We seem to have picked up quite a few snake oil pitches in the last few days....:eyebrow:Call it what you may, snake oil, whatever. Acuse me of a sales pitch, frankly
I do not care.
For the most part I think the whole point has been missed here.
I am not a salesman:faint: I am simply saying that if everyone here is as "open minded as they say they are" and "willing to try something diffferent" to help themselves or a loved one.......then give it a go.

But since everyone seems to believe I sell the stuff because it all sounds like a marketing approach, maybe I'll call them up and ask them for a job in marketing:D

As I have said before, Reliv is patented as a food product, the company makes no claim as to curing anything. That is true.
However, not everyone that has a positive testimony in reference to Reliv is
selling it, no more than everyone that owns a Kirby vacuum cleaner is going door to door trying to sell one.

I did not make any false statements in reference to the product, I simply shared my success story, and all hell broke loose because I couldnt stuff a little paper in the pharmacist bag indicating all of the possible side effects (none BTW)

Oops, my bad. Let me make a correction pcrenovation. When i saw the post about you discussing studies with mctavish..etc.. the way it was worded, to me seemed like a kind of endorsement or support from said person. I went back, and realized mctavish already posted and made opinions known.. i apoligize.I guess we are both prone to making mistakes......I completely forgot that I posted (copied) that one...........shame on me, but thanks for making sure that you caught that mistake for us.;)

We seem to have picked up quite a few snake oil pitches in the last few days....:eyebrow:Yes, and interestingly enough, there seems to be a pattern of the "pitchers" posting for the very first time right in middle of another pitcher's thread :rolleyes:

I did not attack anyone. I just posted something that my family is using, and finding amazing results. I was attacked for stating this! I just wanted to help others who were looking for something outside the medication. This post is not for anyone that believes medication is the only way. This is for all those who are tired of the medication and want to actively do something to try to correct the condition permanently. I knew I was not going to go the medication route with my son, so I went in search of something to help. This SharperPrograms is what I found, and IT DOES HELP!
Here is a small bit of information about the program we are using. It was developed by a Dr. in Toronto. It was tested for over five years, and an many individuals before it was released for sale to the public.

"Neurofeedback, which is a form of biofeedback, has been used for over 20 years to treat concentration related difficulties associated with AD/HD and LD. In general, Neurofeedback is a modality that uses an EEG recording system along with training software to enhance brainwave activity that is instrumental for improving concentration.

The premise behind neurofeedback is related to earlier findings that established that individuals with poor concentration lack sufficient levels of Beta 1 (this band is also commonly termed SMR, for sensory/motor rhythms) brainwaves to sustain attention. The findings also showed that these individuals exhibit excessive amounts of slow brain wave activity, especially Theta waves (Lubar, 1984, 1976; Tansey 1991, 1985). In these studies, treatment modalities focused on enhancing the SMR/theta ratio, demonstrated the effectiveness of Neurofeedback in treating children with attention deficits and learning disabilities, which usually resulted in improved school performance and behavior control. During Neurofeedback sessions, the person wishing to enhance concentration uses feedback coming through an EEG machine to enhance SMR and decrease Theta. After a certain amount of training, typically between 40 and 60 sessions, the individual is able to produce more SMR at will.
Neurofeedback treatment can also result insignificant improvement of intellectual functioning, as measured by increases in IQ scores (Linden, Habib & Radojevic, 1996). Such improvement is most likely the result of the treatment’s positive impact on the person's ability to concentrate.

More recently, Monastra (2002) found that neurofeedback has proven to be successful in long-term improvement of AD/HD symptoms. In this study, 100 children, aged six to nineteen years, diagnosed with AD/HD were monitored for one year. All children received parental counseling, academic support, and Ritalin. Half of the children also received Neurofeedback training. After 12 months, all children showed improvement in their attention. However, childrdren who stopped taking Ritalin and did not train with Neurofeedback, lost the gains they had achieved, whereas those who also received brain wave training, kept their gains even after they stopped using Ritalin."

If you find this of interest to you and want to know more about it, go to the SharperPrograms site and read it for yourself. There is a lot of information, and if you want you can call and talk to the doctor yourself as I did.

If you don't think that this can help you, fine, but don't say it won't work when you haven't tried it. There are different forms of biofeedback, and I know you haven't tried this because if you did, you would know it works.

I did not attack anyone. I just posted something that my family is using, and finding amazing results. I was attacked for stating this!

If you don't think that this can help you, fine, but don't say it won't work when you haven't tried it. There are different forms of biofeedback, and I know you haven't tried this because if you did, you would know it works.You were not "attacked", you were called to the floor for making claims like "...and I know you haven't tried this because if you did, you would know it works".

I will be the first to admit I am skimming a lot of this.. so if i misquote.. just let me know. I really don't know why I keep coming here dispensing the attention ya'll so desire for your product. It's kind of like a train wreck... we know it is just an ugly mess, but we can't seem to turn away (at least i can't ).

Here is a small bit of information about the program we are using. It was developed by a Dr. in Toronto. It was tested for over five years, and an many individuals before it was released for sale to the public.

if anything I mention about the above quote is listed somewhere in your post I apoligize and just show me the way... if not. These are the things that are annoying so many.. "here is info on program we are using".. what program exactly are you speaking of here. The SharperProgram you were talking of previously.. the one you said you found... and that it works. Okay.. great. Where did you find this program. What led you to it.. are there any studies at all to look at to objectively evaluate this program on our own. How exactly do you feel "it works". If this was something used on your children, explain how this program was administered to them, and exactly what benefit or improvement you saw in them. How would you explain to someone you were certain this program produced these results.
.."it was developed by a doctor in Toronto".. well which doctor in Toronto. What is he a doctor of.. how many years experience does he have directly with ADHD..and many more questions. "it was tested for over five years".. well, where was it tested, what methods were used for testing, how was it tested.. you get the idea. I have been testing a peaceful, kind, accepting, and loving attitude, for waaaay over five years.. that thing still doesn't work. "and tested on many individuals".. what individuals, and did any of these individuals have ADHD... i know you're getting the pattern here. I've also tested that aforementioned attitude out on many individuals... doesn't mean it was successful.
...I know I'm very low on the list to give advice on tact and etiquitte (and spelling), but I could go back and help you with your post... it might go a little something like this. Hey guys, I am new here, but I just really would like to let you know about a product my family and I have tried, and feel has helped us tremendously. It is called Reliv (i think that is it).. it is a nutritional supplement.. these are the ingredients.. developed wherever, been out so long.. whatever general factual info there is on the product (i'm not trying to be sarcastic... i just really don't want to read). My family and I have been taking this product for X- long. I feel it has helped my family tremendously in that the children now...(list what you feel improvements are). Here is the website for this product. I hope anyone interested in alternatives to meds will take a serious look at this, and I will be glad to discuss it with you. Thanks for listening.
Oh what happy campers eveyone would still be.. the train would still be on the tracks.. and their would be no bodies to step over. Just a thought.

Yes! Yes! Yes!
Exactly Lettie.
I would have welcomed a post like that about Reliv and SharperProgram.

However, the problems we had that were associated with the ADHD are now gone using Reliv.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen the first post that makes that same claim for any of the scientifically backed meds. that are mentioned here.
Well, you haven't looked hard enough, because they are most certainly here to be read.

My son's ADHD symptoms have disappeared.

Yes, we've dealt with some nonADD issues and we did have to switch to a different medication because his first try made him moody, but the second med works EVEN BETTER than the first with none of the moodiness or any other side effect, for that matter.



I will have more testimonies from other people soon, real people, with very similar stories.

Testimonials don't cut it. Anecdotes mean nothing in the way of evidence for many reasons. I can recommend quite a few books on the subject of knowledge acquisition (mostly on how science operates) if you are interested. They can explain quite thoroughly why the scientific method and peer-review publication are necessary if one is to draw any sort of valid conclusion.

I'm happy for you that this works for whatever reason it does, but please do not misinform those looking for valid, proven treatments.

Misinformation was not the case, I was sharing my success story.

The only interest it received was the deliberate efforts to debunk the nutritional alternatives.

Of course I was angry when I was attacked for sharing a success story and being accused of selling snake oil.

I have definetely learned a lesson here on this site.
There are some people who want help and others who dont.

Greg F

I'm happy for you that this works for whatever reason it does, but please do not misinform those looking for valid, proven treatments. Please dont deny the fact that they do work, or acuse me of invalid information.
Clinical trials also rely on testimonials from there test subjects.


Greg F

There are some people who want help and others who dont.
yes, here i am again. I think this should really say.. there are some people who want to help, and others who wish to force specific ideas whether harmful or helpful. Or maybe "there are some people who want to help, and others who lack the specific knowledge to do so.
....just wondering. did you see anything wrong with my suggested post, and do you see how it is very different from yours?

TESTIMONIAL FOR THE EXTRODINARY POWERFUL ADD NECKLACE
..the following is a testimonial from a well known and respected member of ADD forums.. and many other respected groups. For two years now she has been wearing the ADD remedy necklace.. and exclaims "it works" She also states... "before i had the necklace my ADD symptoms were so severe. Every day since the necklace has been like a breath of fresh air taken with brand new lungs." "If you do not try the necklace, you will be depriving yourself and loved ones of this fresh air. If you know something works.. it would just be crazy not to have it." It works.. don't be the only ADDer suffering without the necklace.
...the wonders of a testimonial. I just wrote all that down... really. I wrote it even though i don't believe a word of it. If you pay me some money or give me a vacation i will say it even better.

..i wonder how proven scientific studies feel about cancun.

I am trying to use the above exaggeration to just try to make you understand.. nobody wants to attack you... but these claims and testimonials are no different than the above example. Most are just asking if you make definative claims and concrete statments concerning the healing ability of.. anything.. please be prepared to back those claims with reliable scientifically tested proof.. or expect to be called to the carpet. If you have no such information.. and wish to avoid severe carpet burns... take a look at my suggested post again...just an idea

I am closing this thread with a few comments of my own.

I know that we here at the forums are wary of "miracle" solutions and I am glad that our members look out for each other. However, in reviewing this thread I have seen repeatedly that our new members state over and over that they are not trying to sell anything, that they made sure they posted in the correct section, that they were not trying to make any specific claim other than that something they tried worked for them.

The information provided that cautions everyone to be wary of non-traditional approaches has come through loud and clear, but it's time to leave it at this. This is getting to the point of "beating a dead horse".

I agree that there are many "hoaxes" out there. I had a friend who showed me an article that claimed a specific algae that could only be found in ONE lake in Oregon was "proven" to "cure" ADHD. I thanked her for caring, said I'd check into it, and tossed it in the trash. I am glad that she has such faith in these things because it is part of what makes her who she is, but it doesn't mean I have to follow her path.

I can only encourage ALL of our members to keep an open mind, do their research, work with professionals, etc.

Please dont deny the fact that they do work, or acuse me of invalid information.
Clinical trials also rely on testimonials from there test subjects.


No, they do not. This is my line of work and I know what I'm talking about.

There is no evidence (valid research) to support the effectiveness of any dietarty treatment. In fact, there is plenty of evidence to refute it.

Testamonials, stories, anecdotes say absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of a product. Even if one is to believe these testamonials are true, ever heard of the placebo effect?



Misinformation was not the case, I was sharing my success story.


I beg to differ. Posting testamonials and links to commercial sites that include lies is most certainly misinformation.

Yes, I said "lies."

Had I all the time in the world, I would break down every study cited in your quote and tell you precisely why the comments about those studies are lies. Since I don't have that kind of time, but certainly won't say something so bold without support, let me just tell you about this one:

"More recently, Monastra (2002) found that neurofeedback has proven to be successful in long-term improvement of AD/HD symptoms. In this study, 100 children, aged six to nineteen years, diagnosed with AD/HD were monitored for one year. All children received parental counseling, academic support, and Ritalin. Half of the children also received Neurofeedback training. After 12 months, all children showed improvement in their attention. However, childrdren who stopped taking Ritalin and did not train with Neurofeedback, lost the gains they had achieved, whereas those who also received brain wave training, kept their gains even after they stopped using Ritalin."

It took me less than 3 minutes to examine that study closely enough to discover that those "sustained" improvements were measured after a one week washout from Ritalin. ONE WEEK.

The only children who sustained improvements longer were those who resumed and continued treatment with Ritalin.



The only interest it received was the deliberate efforts to debunk the nutritional alternatives.

There is no conspiracy here. NOTHING that actually works can be debunked.



There are some people who want help and others who dont.

There are some that are truly open-minded, but there are others who ignore mountains of counter-evidence for reasons unknown.

Examining evidence does not mean one is closed-minded, and being open-minded does not mean accepting whatever fluff is dished out.

Leading people down a path to nowhere is not helping, it's hurting. People come to these forums for information, not fluff.

Kimalimah, you are so right.. we should all get it by now. I wanted to speak of something specifically in here, but haven't had the sleep, time, or energy.. to dig through my research to post properly. I have done considerable amounts of research in areas i feel directly apply here.. the cult mindset and attitude. The manipulation of people by supplying emotional needs... many others such as Amway, how this became such a craze.. the specific and trained speech of those dedicated to such groups. Anyway... all i'm saying is i became nervous as i recognized what i believed to be typical motivational, intimidating, and morality questioning techniques.. that I feel through my research are typically taught and almost idolized in groups i feel are similar to these. Just got a little nervous..felt they were way to cool about the situation, and worked common sympathy techniques i recognize from my research. I was worried about what might be considered the next move in a typical playbook used by many such groups... with that said.. no more. unless ya'll want to talk about this sooo interesting.