View Full Version : Diagnosed at 30--still havent' allowed myself to cope


88ssp
03-22-06, 11:12 PM
I was diagnosed almost 2 years ago and I have yet to actually allow myself to "mourn" or get a full grasp on the effects this disorder has had on my life. Heck, I tried to take a concentration/detail oriented/deductive reasoning "test" the other day (as part of my work) and I felt like a complete idiot.

Growing up, I always did very well in school. Of course, I always forgot my homework, had a messy desk, talked a lot in class, couldn't pay attention, yada, yada--typical stuff.

I actually decided to investigate the possibility of ADD once I got into physical therapy school and my whole academic load changed.

TO top it off, I'm an unmedicated member of this group because I can't afford the meds yet (until I graduate from school--but that is another story altogether.

How do y'all cope? Did you go through the stages of "loss"? It just seems like my "deficits" are becoming a more glaring problem, everyday.

I'm going crazy.

chameleon
03-23-06, 12:13 AM
Let me get this in real quick in case you leave -
I felt JUST LIKE YOU about a year ago when I got dx'd.
I'm so glad you came here. THIS place is how we all cope!
Now I'm going to write a longer post...

chameleon
03-23-06, 12:34 AM
I have struggled all my life. It seemed my destiny to be the "dumb blonde".
Everyone laughed at me all the time. I know they thought they were laughing with me but, it hurt.
I had been told I was stupid so many times I thought I was. I'd have flashes of brilliance that would make everyone fall out of their chairs (including me!) but there were so many things I struggled with, I thought the brilliant flashes must have been the side effect of brain cells dying off :p
My boyfriend at the time had ADD and he swore to the heavens above that I had to too.
I didn't know much at all about it. He convinced me to get tested.
I went to an ADD specialist for intensive testing.
Waiting for the results was torture. I knew there was SOMETHING wrong with my brain during the tests. I was driven to tears from my frustration during them.
I couldn't decide if I wanted it to be ADD or not -
if I didn't have it I was just a brain damaged moron.
if I did have it .... well, did you ever watch the TV show "Coach"? If so, do you remember his daughter's fiance on the show? The guy who was whiny and sniffly and easily brought to tears and annoying and constantly needed his inhaler or nose drops or eyedrops. I felt like if I had ADD I'd be like him -
"Oh everyone has to EXCUSE me now because I have a condition!".
It sucked both ways.
Then I started researching ADD.
By the time I went back in for my test results I HOPED I had it because then I could DO SOMETHING about it. Plus, I didn't feel so embarassed at the idea of having ADD.
Turned out I did have it - severely. Severe ADHD with many comorbid conditions.
I got a lot of flack when I revealed my test results to my parents. They don't believe in it. I look up to them. It was hard on me. But I came to terms.
I did spend a period grieving then. Grieving that I couldn't just "straighten up" for them and not be some drivelling dweeb with an ADD diagnosis. Grieving for all the pain I went through all my life (I'm 42) as I struggled SO HARD without knowing I had ADHD. I went through an ANGRY period, angry at my parents for not believing in it, so not getting me help early on in life (it was SO OBVIOUS that I had it), angry in all my relationships that people weren't more understanding. That they demanded I behave like them, think like them, when now I knew that was impossible, but I TRIED SO HARD.
I felt sorry for myself for a while for the unfair treatment my whole life. For all those lost opportunities that if I'd had treatment I could have taken.
I grieved who I might have been. How far I might have gone.

Then I woke up. I came out of it and looked around here.
There's not one aspect of ADD you can experience without finding someone here that's experienced the same.
We've all lost out on opportunities.
We all grieved.
We all gotten SUPER angry.
We were all misunderstood.
I've been on ungodly high doses of ADD meds and anti depressants and anti anxiety drugs. Right now I'm on none.
The point is, you're not alone anymore.
Welcome home.

addinbc
03-23-06, 04:37 AM
Chameleon;

Thank you for writing that....

I know it was meant for 88ssp, but it hit a nerve with me too. I was diagnosed in June of last year, less than a year ago, and I'm still going through all of this. Right now, the frustration and sense of underachievement is what is killing me. It really is so painful!

I feel like I've been a fish floundering on the sand all my life, just desperately trying to get into the water so I could swim freely. But I just never could. And until I was diagnosed, there was no reason for it!! It seems I've been watching everyone else swim past me freely and easily, and I didn't know why I couldn't keep up with them, yet I always knew somewhere inside that I was capable of SO much more!! The frustration could rip your insides apart!

Thanks for your thoughts! This is a great place, 'ain't it? :D

chameleon
03-23-06, 04:41 AM
omg yes addinbc! I love this place. It's the ONLY positive input I get on my ADHD.

Another time I felt REALLY CHEATED was when I first took anti depressants. Finding out how other people feel, I grieved SO MUCH for all those years I suffered. Now I'm off them but I'm still happy I got to see what the world can look like if you're not me. It's beautiful.

~boots~
03-23-06, 04:53 AM
I have struggled all my life. It seemed my destiny to be the "dumb blonde".
Everyone laughed at me all the time. I know they thought they were laughing with me but, it hurt.
I had been told I was stupid so many times I thought I was. I'd have flashes of brilliance that would make everyone fall out of their chairs (including me!) but there were so many things I struggled with, I thought the brilliant flashes must have been the side effect of brain cells dying off :p
I couldn't decide if I wanted it to be ADD or not -
if I didn't have it I was just a brain damaged moron.
if I did have it .... Then I started researching ADD.
By the time I went back in for my test results I HOPED I had it because then I could DO SOMETHING about it. Plus, I didn't feel so embarassed at the idea of having ADD.
Turned out I did have it - ADHD
I got a lot of flack when I revealed my test results to my parents. They don't believe in it. I look up to them. It was hard on me. But I came to terms.
I did spend a period grieving then. Grieving that I couldn't just "straighten up" for them and not be some drivelling dweeb with an ADD diagnosis. Grieving for all the pain I went through all my life (I'm 42) as I struggled SO HARD without knowing I had ADHD. I went through an ANGRY period, angry at my parents for not believing in it, so not getting me help early on in life (it was SO OBVIOUS that I had it), angry in all my relationships that people weren't more understanding. That they demanded I behave like them, think like them, when now I knew that was impossible, but I TRIED SO HARD.
I felt sorry for myself for a while for the unfair treatment my whole life. For all those lost opportunities that if I'd had treatment I could have taken.
I grieved who I might have been. How far I might have gone.

Then I woke up. I came out of it and looked around here.
There's not one aspect of ADD you can experience without finding someone here that's experienced the same.
We've all lost out on opportunities.
We all grieved.
We all gotten SUPER angry.
We were all misunderstood.
I've been on ungodly high doses of ADD meds and anti depressants and anti anxiety drugs. Right now I'm on none.
The point is, you're not alone anymore.
Welcome home.
OK, you just wrote out MY LIFE..well done :D Saved me doing it LOL
I still have not told my parents....Have they come to terms with it yet? I told my Dr I was ANGRY at my parents for not getting me the help i so obviously needed, and he said they wouldn't have been able to do much back then anyway...

gee, now I have forgotten what the original post in this thread was about..sorry:eek:

~boots~
03-23-06, 05:03 AM
I have gone back and re-read the first post

"How do y'all cope? Did you go through the stages of "loss"? It just seems like my "deficits" are becoming a more glaring problem, everyday"

I went into anger at my parents (but they don't know LOL)..was relieved to finally *come out my ADD closet*, then went to denial "I lived this long without meds..41yrs..why bother now"...and today I am glad I am part of this forum :-)

I honestly can't believe so many of us have been through the same thing our entire lives. I read these posts and I am like totally blown away at how someone can say EXCATLY what I have been like/through all my life....

I still have not told anyone except my best friend and my husband ....oh yeah, and half the world here on this forum...LOL

I want to email my old school reports to my high school and ask WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??? COULDN'T YOU SEE THIS GIRL NEEDED HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am still tempted hehehehe

Uminchu
03-23-06, 05:24 AM
I was 34 when I found out, diagnosed at 35. When I found out, I was completely shocked.

At first I was so excited: at last, I had a reason for all these parts of my life I could never explain before! And there was a name for it other than "lazy and crazy" :D

Then I started getting bummed out. First of all, having a genetic neurological disorder means you're "damaged goods." It also meant that it was my fault that my son has ADHD.

But more than that, I had always been optimistic. Next time I'll apply myself. No more all nighters and late deadlines. Next time I'll keep my mouth shut. Etc. etc. But knowing that this was all neurologically based somehow destroyed that naive optimism. To be honest, I miss it. :)

Funkville lasted a couple of months. Then I just kind of snapped out of it, and got on with life. I figured I have a good career and a great family; people have told me I have a dream life. What's to mourn about? Sure, there are still things I struggle with, but at least now I can cut myself a little slack about them. My mission is now back to where it was: live the best life I can, but now armed with more information. Good deal.

Knowing about this has also made my relationship with my son 100% better. I had been very strict with him, because I saw the same things in him that I saw in myself, and I didn't want him to turn into a lazy, undisciplined idiot like me. ;) But I have learned a much better way to interact with him now.

chameleon
03-23-06, 05:35 AM
Tracy - no my parents still don't believe in ADD. I'm sure to them I'm a whiny, sniveling, crybaby with inhaler, eardrops, eyedrops, and nose spray in hand.
At my parent's anniversary party we threw for them - a gala affair, rented town hall - decorations to the nines - my dad took me aside, sat me down, and proceeded to tell his little girl how she's been brainwashed by medical quakes, and sometimes a duck is just a duck, and a dumb blonde is a dumb blonde.
I don't know how I managed it but I smiled sweetly, thanked him for his advice, and went in the bathroom and screamed.
I haven't mentioned ADHD to them again.

It is SO GOOD to hear that the way ADD has effected my life, and my reactions to it, are not solely mine.
And YEAH Tracy! We SHOULD write to our old teachers and say "YOU FAILED!"

Oh Uminchu, for me it was the opposite, instead of thinking "I'll do better next time :) " I thought, "WHY AM I SUCH A DOLT???"
What a wonderful thing it did for your relationship with your son though :)
My son's have it too.

Uminchu
03-23-06, 05:46 AM
My mom was convinced about ADHD after she read the copy of "Driven to Distraction" I sent her. She is sure she has it, too. :) I guess we are just lucky that way.

I never asked myself "why" I did all the stupid things I did. I knew why: because I was lazy and crazy. But I did try to hide the fact that I was so lazy. I worked twice as hard as everyone around me so they wouldn't catch on that I was a big old fraud. ;)

addinbc
03-23-06, 05:56 AM
But I did try to hide the fact that I was so lazy. I worked twice as hard as everyone around me so they wouldn't catch on that I was a big old fraud. ;)
Uminchu!

Oh ho ho!! How I can relate to this!!! I eventually totally burnt myself out with all my 'doing everything to hide it' tactics! Had a breakdown of sorts. The thing is, I didn't even fully realise I was doing it! It made me totally exhausted :faint:!

chameleon
03-23-06, 06:22 AM
I didn't have anyone fooled for a minute.

~boots~
03-23-06, 08:36 AM
I didn't have anyone fooled for a minute.
I only had one person not fooled!! I am proud of myself:D

~boots~
03-23-06, 08:40 AM
"I want to email my old school reports to my high school and ask WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??? COULDN'T YOU SEE THIS GIRL NEEDED HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I am going to scan one or two from when I was about 12...and post in our photo section...If my kids got a report like that I would be straight to school!! And My parents will still think I am perfect! LOL..job for tomorrow..

Roy G Biv
03-23-06, 09:21 AM
It's a gift.


How few of us know who we REALLY are?

Now you know-use it to your life's advantage.

~boots~
03-23-06, 09:28 AM
I have scanned my yr 8 report and posted on web, sorry for hijacking this thread..I am not sure if that is polite...here is the link, one report is worse than the other
http://static.flickr.com/34/116752894_794fdf5d70_b.jpg
I am not sure if you can read this, but it can be enlarged if you run your mouse over the bottom right corner and wait for the enlarge box to appear. What do you think?

chameleon
03-23-06, 02:57 PM
I commented at the link's thread Tracy. *Doh!*
I should copy and paste it here, but I'm far too lazy. Can I hire someone to do it for me? :p

runinl8
03-23-06, 03:25 PM
It's a gift.

How few of us know who we REALLY are?

Now you know-use it to your life's advantage.
I have to agree with this mostly because I don't really know what you're going thru with the depression about it. I was just so excited to find out what was wrong. To know that I had ADHD and was not crazy was like having a bit of a weight lifted. I really hope that one day you will be able to look at it this way.

Btw my Mother has informed what a bunch of crap it is. My Father on the other hand is very supportive. Of course he would love me even I "were" crazy.;)

Crackerjack
03-23-06, 04:37 PM
I always "knew" something was wrong, especially in the last few years but couldn't get anyone to believe me. I had been diagnosed with an LD and a "touch" of ADD back in college, so all I figured I had to do was concentrate harder and my problem would be solved. (Bahaha!)

So last July I ended up getting a SPECT scan done, which confirmed my ADD was worse than I thought. What added to the "fun" of my diagnosis was there was an area of my brain which wasn't responsive in the scans - meaning there was something there. So in addition to all the memories and emotions of my first diagnosis years ago, I had that to deal with. I later found out it was a "anatomical variant", meaning it's a natural thing.

What upset me again was how everyone didn't seem to understand what exactly this diagnosis meant to me. Plus I didn't know what that thing was in my head and was trying to deal with that - everyone brushed it off and told me not to worry about it - yeah, right. I got into a huge fight with one of my best friends because she got mad since I wasn't handling it the way she thought I should - I never forgave her for some of the things she said and ended up cutting off all contact with her a few months later.

My parents still haven't completely come around to ADD, even though my dad has it (he won't get diagnosed). What's funny (not really) is how they keep saying how they've listened to me over the years about me and my dad having ADD, but in reality they never listened at all.

I think I went along the stages differently. :D I accepted I had ADD a long time ago, but I'm angry at everything I could've been and wasn't (I'm 33), especially after the second diagnosis and following other traumas I've had in my life. I'm depressed because right nowI'm at a point in my life where I'm trying to figure out if I have a future or not because there's so much to catch up on. I'm unemployed and am afraid of being in temp jobs for the rest of my life when I know I can so better.

It might sound like "pity", but I'm tired of having only myself to rely on to get myself through the major problems I've had while everyone else minimizes what I'm feeling.

Aside from going to a newly found local ADD support group once every month, I only have one other person I can talk to about my feelings. Ironically, she's not ADD.

So...I've accepted it...but boy, am I enraged. I used to take that rage and beat myself up, but now I think I'll focus it outward and do something constructive...like get my life back.

~boots~
03-23-06, 09:22 PM
I copied it for you Chameleon, I hope that's OK!

COPY OF MY SCHOOL REPORT COMMENTS I was 12, and 1st year in high school..and no-one noticed..

"Okay...onto your grades young lady! -

Look! You are produced a "pleasing result" and "a good enthusiastic student" in art! How very ADD creative of you!

Clothing & Fabric Class - "Tracy is talkative in class and a distraction to other students!" Where is that girl? I'll flog her right now! :mad: :p

Other comments - "could be more attentive", "Tracy is easily distracted", "needs to show more attention in class", "she is very easily distracted", "Tracy would improve by concentrating on directions and on her work", "Tracy lacks concentration", "....weak, especially in the listening tests", "Tracy lacks concentration", "Tracy lacks concentration in class and is a distraction to others", "Very easily distracted", "Tracy lacks concentration in class and is sometimes a distraction to other students".

OMG! I could diagnose ADD there if I was a drunk monkey!
You poor poor girl! :("

Gee, I thought you were a DRUNK MONKEY LOL

~boots~
03-23-06, 10:08 PM
So...I've accepted it...but boy, am I enraged. I used to take that rage and beat myself up, but now I think I'll focus it outward and do something constructive...like get my life back.
good idea and the best of luck :p

chameleon
03-24-06, 03:46 AM
I'm glad you copied and pasted my reply Tracy, thanks! :D

Crackerjack
03-24-06, 10:22 AM
good idea and the best of luck :p
Thank you. :D

~boots~
03-24-06, 10:55 AM
Thank you. :DYou are welcome :D

~boots~
03-24-06, 11:00 AM
Chameleon;

Thank you for writing that....

I know it was meant for 88ssp, but it hit a nerve with me too. I was diagnosed in June of last year, less than a year ago, and I'm still going through all of this. Right now, the frustration and sense of underachievement is what is killing me. It really is so painful!

I feel like I've been a fish floundering on the sand all my life, just desperately trying to get into the water so I could swim freely. But I just never could. And until I was diagnosed, there was no reason for it!! It seems I've been watching everyone else swim past me freely and easily, and I didn't know why I couldn't keep up with them, yet I always knew somewhere inside that I was capable of SO much more!! The frustration could rip your insides apart!

Thanks for your thoughts! This is a great place, 'ain't it? :DI just re-read your post...it seems we all feel the same way...I bet the next generation of Add'ers don't have to go through this crap:( well, I hope they don't have to....well said, and ditto from me:(

Crackerjack
03-24-06, 11:21 AM
I just re-read your post...it seems we all feel the same way...I bet the next generation of Add'ers don't have to go through this crap:( well, I hope they don't have to....well said, and ditto from me:(
Unfortunately, I think they will.

There's still a lot of ignorance out there and my experience has been most people aren't as openminded as they say they are. If something doesn't fit with their idea of how things should be, more often than not - in my experience again - they'll reject it.

On the plus side, there's more books and resources for ADDers than 10, or even 5 years ago. I've also talked to several people who recently found out they were ADD and gave them some advice/listened to their concerns as to how they felt and they've been thankful because I'm one of the few who haven't laughed at them or told them it's all in their head.

I know I've learned a lot more about my ADD, as well as how different types of ADD affects others, by finding this board a couple weeks ago and knowing others go through the same struggles I do. I already "knew", but it's nice to go and have somewhere to vent or just read something and know you're not the only one who runs the dishwasher without putting the soap in (bahaha).

So...thanks everyone. :D

Naomi2
03-24-06, 01:07 PM
I have struggled all my life. It seemed my destiny to be the "dumb blonde".
Everyone laughed at me all the time. I know they thought they were laughing with me but, it hurt.
I had been told I was stupid so many times I thought I was. I'd have flashes of brilliance that would make everyone fall out of their chairs (including me!) but there were so many things I struggled with, I thought the brilliant flashes must have been the side effect of brain cells dying off :p
My boyfriend at the time had ADD and he swore to the heavens above that I had to too.
I didn't know much at all about it. He convinced me to get tested.
I went to an ADD specialist for intensive testing.
Waiting for the results was torture. I knew there was SOMETHING wrong with my brain during the tests. I was driven to tears from my frustration during them.
I couldn't decide if I wanted it to be ADD or not -
if I didn't have it I was just a brain damaged moron.
if I did have it .... well, did you ever watch the TV show "Coach"? If so, do you remember his daughter's fiance on the show? The guy who was whiny and sniffly and easily brought to tears and annoying and constantly needed his inhaler or nose drops or eyedrops. I felt like if I had ADD I'd be like him -
"Oh everyone has to EXCUSE me now because I have a condition!".
It sucked both ways.
Then I started researching ADD.
By the time I went back in for my test results I HOPED I had it because then I could DO SOMETHING about it. Plus, I didn't feel so embarassed at the idea of having ADD.
Turned out I did have it - severely. Severe ADHD with many comorbid conditions.
I got a lot of flack when I revealed my test results to my parents. They don't believe in it. I look up to them. It was hard on me. But I came to terms.
I did spend a period grieving then. Grieving that I couldn't just "straighten up" for them and not be some drivelling dweeb with an ADD diagnosis. Grieving for all the pain I went through all my life (I'm 42) as I struggled SO HARD without knowing I had ADHD. I went through an ANGRY period, angry at my parents for not believing in it, so not getting me help early on in life (it was SO OBVIOUS that I had it), angry in all my relationships that people weren't more understanding. That they demanded I behave like them, think like them, when now I knew that was impossible, but I TRIED SO HARD.
I felt sorry for myself for a while for the unfair treatment my whole life. For all those lost opportunities that if I'd had treatment I could have taken.
I grieved who I might have been. How far I might have gone.

Then I woke up. I came out of it and looked around here.
There's not one aspect of ADD you can experience without finding someone here that's experienced the same.
We've all lost out on opportunities.
We all grieved.
We all gotten SUPER angry.
We were all misunderstood.
I've been on ungodly high doses of ADD meds and anti depressants and anti anxiety drugs. Right now I'm on none.
The point is, you're not alone anymore.
Welcome home.
That was well written! I mean, it stuck a chord in me. And the bit at the end where you said 'welcome home', that was somehow so beautiful.

Naomi2
03-24-06, 01:09 PM
Tracy - no my parents still don't believe in ADD. I'm sure to them I'm a whiny, sniveling, crybaby with inhaler, eardrops, eyedrops, and nose spray in hand.
At my parent's anniversary party we threw for them - a gala affair, rented town hall - decorations to the nines - my dad took me aside, sat me down, and proceeded to tell his little girl how she's been brainwashed by medical quakes, and sometimes a duck is just a duck, and a dumb blonde is a dumb blonde.
I don't know how I managed it but I smiled sweetly, thanked him for his advice, and went in the bathroom and screamed.
I haven't mentioned ADHD to them again.
That's why I can't bring myself to talk to my parents about it :( particularly the bit about being brainwashed :p

QueensU_girl
03-24-06, 10:43 PM
Are you registered with the Disability and Student Health centers at your School?

My Student Health service has a special "medication fund" for kids who can't afford medications. You could inquire there. Also, some Drug Companies have free samples. The Adderall and Strattera companies offer samples. The Adderall samples are 14 days worth. (At least here in Canada...)

Contact your Student Awards Office. They would be very likely to help you with a BURSARY award for Medication.

You will never know unless you ask, right?

You deserve it. Do it.

Naomi2
03-25-06, 05:25 AM
Thanks, I will try, but I haven't had an actual diagnosis yet. Still in the process of trying to sort that out :( :rolleyes:

xlr26
04-08-06, 02:48 AM
"I want to email my old school reports to my high school and ask WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??? COULDN'T YOU SEE THIS GIRL NEEDED HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I am going to scan one or two from when I was about 12...and post in our photo section...If my kids got a report like that I would be straight to school!! And My parents will still think I am perfect! LOL..job for tomorrow..
I'm 39 and was just diagnosed two years ago. On many occassions I've also wished my teachers, parents etc. would've noticed (and have been ****ed that they didn't), but in all fairness to them, ADD wasn't on anyone's radar in the 1970s and really didn't hit the mainstream until maybe the late 80s....at the earliest. Guess what I'm saying is you can't really blame them, or at least I don't think you can. :)

tristan k
04-08-06, 12:22 PM
I was 34 when I found out, diagnosed at 35. When I found out, I was completely shocked.

At first I was so excited: at last, I had a reason for all these parts of my life I could never explain before! And there was a name for it other than "lazy and crazy" :D

Then I started getting bummed out. First of all, having a genetic neurological disorder means you're "damaged goods." It also meant that it was my fault that my son has ADHD.................

................Knowing about this has also made my relationship with my son 100% better. I had been very strict with him, because I saw the same things in him that I saw in myself, and I didn't want him to turn into a lazy, undisciplined idiot like me. ;) But I have learned a much better way to interact with him now.
I was also diagnosed at 35 and felt a lot of guilt because my daughter had it (and possibly other conditions) b/c of me. Hard thing to think about and come to any sort of terms with. But understanding myself in a different way has helped me understand her and be better able to help her in the ways she needs. Kudos, Uminchu for being aware and doing something different for your son.

from tracyhaddb......... I just re-read your post...it seems we all feel the same way...I bet the next generation of Add'ers don't have to go through this crap:( well, I hope they don't have to....well said, and ditto from me:(
from Crackerjack.............. Unfortunately, I think they will.

There's still a lot of ignorance out there and my experience has been most people aren't as openminded as they say they are. If something doesn't fit with their idea of how things should be, more often than not - in my experience again - they'll reject it.

The difference for my daughter will be that she will have had support for her ADHD from the beginning. I will be the last person to tell her to "just try harder" without working on a new way for her to succeed. She won't feel that her parents think she's been brainwashed. She will have had an advocate in me for her education......and I refuse to allow the school system to meet her needs by limiting the content for her.

Society's acceptance of ADD or ADHD probably won't change as long as it's not affecting the "normal" population. But, I am able to provide a different foundation for my children that doesn't mirror society's beliefs.

And that will make all the difference in the world for my children and for any other child with an ADD parent. If you know it should have been different for you, chances are you WILL make it different for your children.

just my own way of thinking around the ADD parent/ADD child issue.
be well,
tristan:rolleyes: