View Full Version : Compulsive lying


Humble1
03-27-06, 04:34 PM
here to start...

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Hello, I just joined your little family... of which I was a member since 1958... I cannot believe what I am reading in your forum; are we clones????????



I have been crying for the last 2 weeks (but I lost 12 pounds:). I was just pulled out of denial by life's last wake-up call.



I wonít get into details right now because a more urgent question presses me.



My ADD (or ADHD?) should have been obvious to all, way before now. ďTheyĒ let it slide ďIĒ hide in Denial land. I used lying as a defence mechanism (Compulsively I now think).



How common is this? I mean lying to get by...



Anyone?


Humble1

chameleon
03-27-06, 05:08 PM
I think it's probably pretty common.
Welcome by the way!!! Good to have you here :)

I think that trying to cover up our trails of ADDism from non ADDers is a natural reaction after getting ridiculed so many times.

Brandy
04-05-06, 04:06 AM
It is common! Welcoooome!

Uminchu
04-05-06, 04:39 AM
Howdy, Humble -- welcome to the forums!

I think lying to cover up is pretty common for ADHDers...

Here is a made-up story. Two parents have a son who is smart but lazy. No matter how hard they ride him, he just can't be made to do his schoolwork, or chores, or just about anything he needs to do. He is always getting into trouble for acting without thinking. They know that what their son needs is discipline, so they lay on that discipline real thick.

The problem is, no matter how much they punish their son, he won't get better! Now this is serious stuff -- he obviously needs even harsher consequences, until he understands the need to follow the rules. Better he learn these lessons now than after he is out on his own in the world.

At around age 9 or 10, the parents find out their son is not only lazy and impulsive, but a liar as well. He will swear up and down that he turned in that book report, but then mom finds a crumpled note from the teacher in the trash (note to self -- dispose of the evidence outside the house).

Meanwhile, the son is living in a world he doesn't understand. He doesn't know why he feels physically unable to do his schoolwork. He doesn't know why he thought it would be a good idea to cut a hole in the middle of the good sheet to use it as a parachute. Well actually he knows -- it's because he's lazy and bad (he is told that often enough) -- but he doesn't know why. Or maybe it would be better to say he knows why but doesn't know how to be different.

So when the authorities that seem to press in from every side ask him, did you finish your book report? Have you seen the good sheets? Do you know what happened to the blender? Did you throw that paper airplane? He goes for the painless alternative of lying. He also has a hard time thinking about the future. It's completely out of his mind; so he doesn't even consider the consequences of his lie. And when he is caught, his punishment won't teach him any lessons -- except to be a better liar next time.

~boots~
04-05-06, 04:49 AM
OK Uminchu, have you been watching my son through my windows again??????????????

How did you know all that..LOL..

Uminchu
04-05-06, 06:43 PM
How did you know all that..LOL.. Pure coincidence, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

That was just an illustration of how when you start punishing people for things they can't control, odds are they are going to start trying to cover up.

Another issue is blurting. We had a thread about this on these forums some time ago. It seems like a lot of ADHDers tend to blurt out all sorts of things. Sometimes they don't realize what they have said until they hear and process it themselves. (Hence the famed "oh crap" look)

In the thread, blurters seemed to fall into two camps -- people who impulsively blurted truthful things, and people who impulsively blurted untruthful things. This second type could look a lot like cumpulsive lying. I think the difference is, do you plan to lie or does something just pop out of your mouth?

PicklesPears
04-06-06, 01:47 AM
Just pops out. Hard to swallow later. "Why did I say that? If I had thought it all through, I would have remembered that such and so is also true, making the first statement not absolute, but qualified with that." I just say first & aim later. Horrible to admit. Wish I could control it. Don't see how yet if at all.

QueensU_girl
04-12-06, 07:39 PM
The things I recall from reading about lying in CD kids: the kids lie (a) even when they don't have to, and (b) even when they are caugh red-handed IN A LIE.

chameleon
04-12-06, 07:50 PM
I lied today.
I decided last night to let my sons skip school today. It's the last day before a 4 day weekend, and I figured they deserve it - they've been working hard to bring up their grades, and I haven't been letting them stay home over tummy aches and such. Also, one of my sons was getting picked on at school, and today was going to be the breaking point for him and he would have gotten himself into trouble.

So my husband calls this morning. He's away on business.
He asks if I got the kids off to school.
I panic and say yes.
He questions it.
I repeat yes.

A little bit later I call him back and tell him I lied.
After thinking about it, I know why I did it. I'm tired of having to pay HIS consequences for the parenting decisions I make. I'm tired of hearing that I'm doing it wrong in his opinion. It just saves me the hassle to lie to him.
But, if I'd taken a moment to think about it, I wouldn't have lied. It's not worth it.

Nova
04-13-06, 12:53 AM
I have no opinion of this, whatsoever, unless a lie affects me, personally...lest I be inadvertantly called 'The Morality Police', LOL!

Also, note there is a difference, between compulsive lying and chronic lying.


Peace out,

Nova

ms_sunshine
04-16-06, 08:51 PM
Chameleon, regardless of anything, I'm proud of you for making a decision and sticking to it. I'm proud of you for calling back and clarifying your decision, too. :) Good for you!

I think I may have been married to someone very much like your current situation. I got more exhausted from trying to meet his expectations than trying to learn to cope with myself. I remember getting to the point where I just told it like it was, whether he was pleased with me or not. At least I was being true to myself.

Cking212
08-08-06, 04:35 AM
Yes, Compulsive lying is something that I have a lot of trouble with... even though I know that the more I lie the deeper I get... and the worse off things are... I still can't stop. I have now put myself in a hole... I don't know who I lied to or who knows what. My parents think one thing... my boyfriend thinks another.. and my friends another... and now its so normal for me to just lie... it just pops out... and I am convincing too... I feel like I need help... its affected my relationship with my friends and family- especially with my parents... I didn't end up graduating college... and I lied and said I did... and then on top of that I lied and told them I got a job... now things aren't adding up and they are starting to question me- and I feel as if I have no way out- because it would be so devistating to them. I live my life in denial... its so awful... and its all because of my ADD- it was so hard for me to finish school- I have ritalin.. but i never take it... and I know I am ADD I got tested when I was younger... and just my symptoms add up! I am lazy and I can never be motivated to do my work... anyway... im at a loss... I just don't know what to do anymore... this is something that I don't think any ADD drug can cure... haha- its not like I can start taking my meds tomorrow and my lies go away...

Crazy~Feet
08-08-06, 11:22 AM
Cking you are correct. Living with ADHD is similar to an ongoing process of recovery from drugs or alcohol. Many of the 12 steps can be slightly modified to suit us, as well as many of the slogans. Medications are a tool only!!

A sample of how the successful AA program can be modified to suit an ADDer follows:

<center>12 Steps for ADHD</center>


Honesty: Admitting we were powerless over our ADHD, and all it entails (insert personal symptoms {piles, procrastination, lying to cover our tracks, impulsive poor decisions, etc.} include whatever hurts your functioning on any life level) and that our lives had become unmanageable.
Hope: Came to believe that ADHD is a lifelong condition and that a power greater than ourselves could set us free from the spiral we are stuck in. If we could have done this on our own, we would have done so by now!
Faith: Made a decision to turn our ADHD and our lives over to a higher power, as we understand it, and became committed to the idea that what we have tried in the past may need to be discarded.
Courage: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves, making sure to include our strengths as well as our weaknesses! ADHD people are not without gifts and strengths, nor are we inhuman.
Integrity: Admitted to a higher power (as you know it, or a doorknob, or a member of the clergy, whatever works for you!), another (trusted friend, therapist, member of ADDF, etc.) and ourselves the exact nature of our weaknesses and strengths
Willingness: Were entirely ready to move forward and beyond the chains that bind us, focus on our strengths and strive for our best model of functioning.
Humility: Humbly asked for the help we need (from appropriate sources) to move forward and out of the patterns we have been stuck in, always bearing in mind that all things are not possible for all people. This may include medications for clarity, dietary changes, exercise, therapy, etc.
Truthfulness: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, including ourselves, and became willing to make amends to them all, committed ourselves to a plan of honesty and respect for ourselves and others, and dedicated ourselves to the concept that ADHD is not an excuse, although it is a medical condition.
Justice: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others, and also made amends to ourselves for the process of beating ourselves up for what we had done when our ADHD was unknown and unmanaged.
Perseverance: Continued to take personal inventory and when we did poorly or did very well promptly admitted it.
Spiritual Awareness: Sought in the ways that work for us to improve our conscious contact with a higher power, as we understand it, seeking only for knowledge of the way for us and the power to carry that out. Your higher power will become known to you as what works for you and need not make sense to anyone else.
Service: Having been enlightened as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other people with ADHD and the families they live with, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Higher Power is anything that the ADHD person accepts, be it a God, Goddess, the Tao, Nature, and/or even the group; it is to be used in such a way that the ADHD person is getting away from the self and selfishness, feels safe to admit they have ADHD and can rely on to help them break old patterns while not losing sight of the goodness within them.


<center>Five States of Mind or The Death of the Old Way of Life</center>


Denial: I donít have a problem, I cannot help this, ADHD is something nobody can understand or help with.
Anger: Everyone is after me, itís their fault, why me? Why should I bother to try if ADHD is incurable?
Bargaining: Iíll take my medications and hope for the best, I wonít take risks, Iíll blame my ADHD for my shortcomings...etc.
Depression: Iím a bad person, I canít do anything right, life sucks.
Acceptance: First step in the healing process!

<center>Healing for Family and Friends of ADHD People
</center>


ADHD people do not do all that they do on purpose, sometimes they canít help it. There is something different with the way their brains work and process, they are and always will be ADHD and this may affect them and others both mentally and physically.
Donít take the ADHD personally. You didnít cause it, you canít control it, and you canít fix or cure it. You canít even help the person, unless they want help first. The person is in pain on some level, even if you are unable to detect that.
Be willing to confront the symptoms of ADHD in a descriptive manner. Donít shame or nag them, but be firm and gentle. Learn all you can about ADHD and strive to seperate the symptoms from the person.
Be willing to lose your relationship with the ADHD person if the person repeatedly refuses to seek help for himself or herself. You are a human being too! Some people must hit bottom in order to admit defeat.
Donít cover up, enable, or shield the ADHD person from their behavior, whenever possible. Do not lie to others or make excuses, but please do attempt to transmit knowledge to detractors who would use lack of understanding to sway your position.
Arm yourself with understanding, knowledge and education about ADHD. Know that denial is not the same as lying, the ADHD person often times cannot see the obvious because it hurts too much. Remember that ADHD causes different issues for children, adolescents, teenagers and adults.

HTH!

Crazy :cool:

PicklesPears
08-10-06, 06:56 PM
ADHD 12 STEPS TO NOT BEATING YOURSELF UP

Iíd like to say 12 Steps for ADHDíers is like 12 Steps for Cancer patients. Or 12 Steps for Short People. ADDíers & ADHDíers have been through enough.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Denial Ė First of all, whatís to deny if youíve never been diagnosed. If I have cancer, but donít know it yet, am I in denial? No, Iím innocent and uninformed. Nobody caught it yet. It happens. Iím not a doctor, how would I know what diagnosis to assign myself? People called me ďblondeĒ or ďairheadĒ or ďditsyĒ or ďforgetful.Ē Iím not born with a diagnosis chip that spits out a health report ĒYou have ADHD Ė go get a m p h e t i m i n e s.Ē <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Denial, my butt. As soon as I figured it out myself with help from no one else, I went to see about getting diagnosed.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Lying Ė I donít know. I think all people lie sometimes, some more than others. I think as a kid I lied at times when I was frightened. I lived in an abusive alcoholic home. I survived. It was a horrible childhood. Iím lucky Iím still standing.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

People weíve harmed Ė I donít know about you, but what people? Iím a nice, good person. Iíve been annoying. I apologize for that as I spot the behavior & try to not annoy again. My goodness, when I think of all the bad things my friends, coworkers and families have done in the sin department, being annoying seems rather mild. When I was five, I swung our family cat by its tail. I still cringe when I think I could do that. I love animals and spoil them rotten now. I forget birthdays sometimes, but I love people almost too much, and constantly put them before my own needs. I need to try to balance it out and take care of me some, too. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Maybe the 12 Steps should be:
1 Forgive yourself
2 Forgive others
3 Forgive your faults Ė the stuff you wish youíd not said or done
4 Donít blow this out of proportion Ė Iíve got a friend with Type 2 diabetes who ate himself into a situation where he may have to have his legs cut off. Things could be much worse. ADHD has good things about it & bad & itís not the end of the world.
5 Have some fun
6 Forget yourself and just relax and enjoy life
7 Donít be so critical
8 Ease up on yourself. Remember, you're a good person and your higher power loves you.
9 Ease up on others
10 Try writing things down when you get the urge to talk too much or blurt things out & you sense you might be annoying to people if you gave yourself half a chance
11 Remember youíve got a good heart, and youíre a treasure<o:p></o:p>
12) Remember God loves you and tons of people have had their lives improved greatly by you. You are awesome. Youíre a survivor, and a blessing to this world. Pat yourself on the back for being such a good sport about the whole thing. Go have fun. Lifeís short Ė you wouldnít want to miss it!

superman_undies
04-04-07, 04:08 AM
Strange... that made up story seems to be my life story! :eek:

I am only just understanding ADD. I discovered ODD today - this is madness. to discover that maybe I am not purposely...
Lazy
Stupid
Deliberately Forgetful
Useless
Dishonest
Argumentitive
Annoying
Deceptive
Untrustworthy
Obnoxious
A Loser
An Underachiever

Just a few of the choicest tags that people use to describe me.

"I never wanted to be what I am, I'm certainly not doing it on purpose"

I said these very words to my wife about a year ago.





She always said I was odd! (geddit... geddit... odd.... you know ODD!!! yeah sorry I'll just be leaving then) :rolleyes:



Howdy, Humble -- welcome to the forums!

I think lying to cover up is pretty common for ADHDers...

Here is a made-up story. Two parents have a son who is smart but lazy. No matter how hard they ride him, he just can't be made to do his schoolwork, or chores, or just about anything he needs to do. He is always getting into trouble for acting without thinking. They know that what their son needs is discipline, so they lay on that discipline real thick.

The problem is, no matter how much they punish their son, he won't get better! Now this is serious stuff -- he obviously needs even harsher consequences, until he understands the need to follow the rules. Better he learn these lessons now than after he is out on his own in the world.

At around age 9 or 10, the parents find out their son is not only lazy and impulsive, but a liar as well. He will swear up and down that he turned in that book report, but then mom finds a crumpled note from the teacher in the trash (note to self -- dispose of the evidence outside the house).

Meanwhile, the son is living in a world he doesn't understand. He doesn't know why he feels physically unable to do his schoolwork. He doesn't know why he thought it would be a good idea to cut a hole in the middle of the good sheet to use it as a parachute. Well actually he knows -- it's because he's lazy and bad (he is told that often enough) -- but he doesn't know why. Or maybe it would be better to say he knows why but doesn't know how to be different.

So when the authorities that seem to press in from every side ask him, did you finish your book report? Have you seen the good sheets? Do you know what happened to the blender? Did you throw that paper airplane? He goes for the painless alternative of lying. He also has a hard time thinking about the future. It's completely out of his mind; so he doesn't even consider the consequences of his lie. And when he is caught, his punishment won't teach him any lessons -- except to be a better liar next time.

PicklesPears
04-08-07, 10:21 PM
I like this approach. Just telling it like it is. I have trouble with lying, and then with being too truthful or blurting. Or telling too many people too much. Or telling certain people some of it or all of it & then forgetting to tell the rest. Or not knowing who to tell. And then I just tell everyone everything so that no one feels snubbed. I don't know who to tell what & how much & when and how to act normal. I've not grown up with normal. I don't know how to behave normally. And then I find people end up looking at me as though I'm odd. And I am odd. So it's hard to me to hold a job. I like people and want them to like me. But I can't control if they do like me. And there is a lot of politics on a job. Also I have health problems. And I've no energy to make friends; I can barely do the job.

Chameleon, regardless of anything, I'm proud of you for making a decision and sticking to it. I'm proud of you for calling back and clarifying your decision, too. :) Good for you!

I think I may have been married to someone very much like your current situation. I got more exhausted from trying to meet his expectations than trying to learn to cope with myself. I remember getting to the point where I just told it like it was, whether he was pleased with me or not. At least I was being true to myself.

maximos300
06-01-11, 10:18 PM
I am an 18 year old male, and this describes me exactly. I want to stop lying very badly, but I am always being bombarded with questions about my assignments by my mom, and so I just lie, because it always seems easier, but then I always end up getting caught or I just feel so guilty that I come clean. I have been punished for lying many times, and I think you are right in saying that I don't consider the consequences of my lie. But I disagree that punishment teaches me to be a better liar the next time. I don't want to be a better liar. I just want to stop.

lmmeade
06-24-11, 01:52 PM
Howdy, Humble -- welcome to the forums!

I think lying to cover up is pretty common for ADHDers...

Here is a made-up story. Two parents have a son who is smart but lazy. No matter how hard they ride him, he just can't be made to do his schoolwork, or chores, or just about anything he needs to do. He is always getting into trouble for acting without thinking. They know that what their son needs is discipline, so they lay on that discipline real thick.

The problem is, no matter how much they punish their son, he won't get better! Now this is serious stuff -- he obviously needs even harsher consequences, until he understands the need to follow the rules. Better he learn these lessons now than after he is out on his own in the world.

At around age 9 or 10, the parents find out their son is not only lazy and impulsive, but a liar as well. He will swear up and down that he turned in that book report, but then mom finds a crumpled note from the teacher in the trash (note to self -- dispose of the evidence outside the house).

Meanwhile, the son is living in a world he doesn't understand. He doesn't know why he feels physically unable to do his schoolwork. He doesn't know why he thought it would be a good idea to cut a hole in the middle of the good sheet to use it as a parachute. Well actually he knows -- it's because he's lazy and bad (he is told that often enough) -- but he doesn't know why. Or maybe it would be better to say he knows why but doesn't know how to be different.

So when the authorities that seem to press in from every side ask him, did you finish your book report? Have you seen the good sheets? Do you know what happened to the blender? Did you throw that paper airplane? He goes for the painless alternative of lying. He also has a hard time thinking about the future. It's completely out of his mind; so he doesn't even consider the consequences of his lie. And when he is caught, his punishment won't teach him any lessons -- except to be a better liar next time.

This is EXACTLY my daughter. What do I do in place of punishing the lying? I can't let it go unanswered, but punishing her feels like putting the wheel in perpetual motion. Help please, I'm at a loss. She's 12 and on 72mg of concerta. She was diagnosed adhd at age 4 (couldn't potty train her). She's out of control when off of her meds. Her lying has become a huge issue in the house and something HAS to give.

Lisa

freedomwriter71
06-26-11, 05:55 PM
I have a similar problem lmmeade. If you want some advice from my POV I might be able to help you.

Impetus
07-19-11, 10:00 PM
I have heard the theory that compulsive lying is more about poor self esteem than ADHD. We are often punished and berated for behaviors we can't control because of our impulsivity..... so lying seems like a good chance at not getting in trouble....

if you have low self esteem, you will do and say anything to keep from getting in trouble. again.

We hear that we are lazy, stupid, and liars so much that we start to believe it.... hey, go with the flow, right??

sarahsweets
07-19-11, 10:27 PM
Is there a compulsively honest category? It gets me in trouble alot. The thing about lying is isn't it just easier for the person lying to lie? Lie to : avoid pain,fear, love , hate, people, decisions. Lying to feel better, get ahead, one up someone, impress, protect someone the list for why lie is a lot longer than the don't lie list. It doesn't make anyone bad or horrible. There is a reason why lying is so easy to do and crushing the spirit of a loved one far more difficult.

ginniebean
07-19-11, 10:29 PM
I do not have a compulsive lying problem I have a compulsive truth telling problem.

sarahsweets
07-19-11, 10:59 PM
I do not have a compulsive lying problem I have a compulsive truth telling problem.

She is not playing when she says that. Holla!

Impetus
07-20-11, 06:15 AM
I do not have a compulsive lying problem I have a compulsive truth telling problem.

I'm in the same boat. I have to admit, this is where my mother's unyielding neglect has served me well. She barely interacted with me enough to pulverize my esteem directly.... (my parents paid good money to the diocese for that task.) she simply couldn't be bothered! end result is my truth telling is still pretty much in tact.

when I hear someone say "what's this???" the old tape I hear in my head is Sister Betty, my elementary school principal. It isn't my mother.

Andon
08-25-11, 05:59 AM
man i lie about almost everything lol...
its just so much easier then telling the truth...well that is until you get caught in a huge web and 2 stories dont match up

meh just make up more lies to cover your tracks

toogled
08-26-11, 10:49 PM
a song
"how you gunna play with fire untill you become a liar?"
lol

mctavish23
09-03-11, 11:22 PM
Compulsive lying is an artifact of disinhibition + poor problem solving "on the fly,"

also known as cognitive shift, as well as impairments in the internalization of

language and verbal fluency;all of which are Executive Function impairments

(Executive Dysfunction) associated with ADHD.

HOWEVER, diagnostically it's going to be classified within the DSM-IV TR as

312.9 Disruptive Behavior Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (NOS),which is

between ODD & Conduct Disorder.

All of those,including ADHD, are grouped under the category of Disruptive

Behavior Disorders in the DSM-IV TR.

Hope that helps.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Simenora
09-03-11, 11:41 PM
Compulsive lying is an artifact of disinhibition + poor problem solving "on the fly,"

also known as cognitive shift, as well as impairments in the internalization of

language and verbal fluency;all of which are Executive Function impairments

(Executive Dysfunction) associated with ADHD.

HOWEVER, diagnostically it's going to be classified within the DSM-IV TR as

312.9 Disruptive Behavior Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (NOS),which is

between ODD & Conduct Disorder.

All of those,including ADHD, are grouped under the category of Disruptive

Behavior Disorders in the DSM-IV TR.

Hope that helps.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Yes Robert but how does one treat it?

mctavish23
09-04-11, 06:27 PM
Hypothetically speaking

Usually,a rewards based Behavior Management/Home Token Economy program

that balances rewards with natural & logical consequences.

If ADHD is involved, then obviously medication management is a FIRST TIER

intervention.

When you get a chance, please check out...

The Parents Guide To Atention Deficit Disorder
by Stephen McCarney,PhD & Angela Marie Bauer,MA
(Hawthorne Press).

It's the BEST behavior mod book written exclusively for ADHD I've ever encountered,

as there's NO THEORY; just 100% practical things you can do today/right now.

Hope that helps.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)