We hear so often from motivational speakers that ADHD has some upside. When they talk about the plus side to ADHD, creativity is at the top of the list.

I'd even love to see any study that states that creativity is enhanced by ADHD. Are we really that much more creative then norms? Could this thinking just be another ADHD subjective blindness that we generally accept? A "lollipop" used by writers to appease the parents of children with ADHD? Is this a myth built up by the ADHD self-help industry?

I'd even love to see any study that states that creativity is enhanced by ADHD. Are we really that much more creative then norms? Could this thinking just be another ADHD subjective blindness that we generally accept? A "lollipop" used by writers to appease the parents of children with ADHD? Is this a myth built up by the ADHD industry?There was a study on here a little while ago that tested for creativity, and found that although ADHDers measured slightly higher than norms on a creativity scale, the difference was not statistically significant.

The arguments that ADHDers are more creative seems plausible at least. If your mind is always jumping from one topic to another, you are more likely to have more ideas on many different things. I think I am that way. On the other hand, going from a creative idea to a creative result takes a lot of concentration IMX. Does hyperfocus help us do that? I'm not sure.

Is creativity just a bone that doctors throw to distraught parents? Sure, your kid is going to drive you to drink, but at least she's creative. :) Also plausible.

Uninhibited imaginations: Creativity in adults with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. [References].
Year of Publication 2006
Author White, Holly A; Shah, Priti.This study applies a theoretical approach to understanding creativity of ADHD individuals in terms of inhibitory control and its relative import in two aspects of creativity: divergent and convergent thinking. We compared adults with and without ADHD on the Unusual Uses Task (divergent thinking) and the Remote Associates Test (convergent thinking), and a measure of executive inhibitory control, semantic inhibition of return. ADHD individuals outperformed non-ADHD individuals on the Unusual Uses Task, but performed worse than non-ADHD on the Remote Associates Test and the semantic IOR task. The relationship between ADHD and creative ability was mediated, in part, by differences in inhibition. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2006 APA, all rights reserved) (journal abstract)

An Exploration Into the Creative Abilities of Children With ADHD. [References].
Year of Publication 2005
Author Healey, Dione; Rucklidge, Julia J.
E-Mail Address Rucklidge, Julia J.: julia.rucklidge@canterbury.ac.nz
Source Journal of Attention Disorders. Vol 8(3) Feb 2005, 88-95.
Abstract The purpose of this study is to explore whether ADHD is associated with high creative ability. Sixty-seven children, ages 10 to 12 (33 ADHD and 34 controls) completed the Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking (TTCT), Maier's Two-String Problem, and the Block Design and Vocabulary subsets of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC-III). The results show that there is no significant difference between the ADHD group's and control group's performance on either the TTCT, Maier's Two-String Problem, or WISC-III, suggesting that children diagnosed with ADHD are no more creative than children without the diagnosis. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2005 APA, all rights reserved) (journal abstract)

Stimulant Treatment of ADHD: Effects on Creativity and Flexibility in Problem Solving. [References].
Year of Publication 2003
Author Swartwood, Michie O; Swartwood, Jeffery N; Farrell, Jamie.
E-Mail Address Swartwood, Michie O.: swartwoodm@cortland.edu
Source Creativity Research Journal. Vol 15(4) Oct 2003, 417-419. http://www.leaonline.com/loi/crj
Abstract The objective of this study was to determine whether Ritalin (methylphenidate, MPH) affects cognitive flexibility and creativity in children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Measures administered included the Wisconsin Card Sorting Test-Revised (WCST-R), the Test of Divergent Thinking (TDT), and the Conners' ADHD rating scale, for both on and off MPH conditions. Comparison of on and off MPH data indicated that MPH administration significantly decreased symptoms of ADHD, as rated by parents on the Conners'. No significant differences were found on the WCST-R as a function of MPH administration. The Elaboration subscale of the TDT was the only scale to show a significant decrease in scores with MPH administration. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2005 APA, all rights reserved) (journal abstract)

The relationship among attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), personality type and creativity in adults using the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) and the Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking (TTCT).
Year of Publication 1999
Author Alt, Cheryl Ann.
Source Dissertation Abstracts International Section A: Humanities and Social Sciences. Vol 60(4-A), Oct 1999, pp. 1007.
Abstract The present study employed the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) Form G and the Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking (TTCT) Figural A to assess and evaluate whether adults who have Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) have characteristics of being creative individuals as measured by the TTCT, and prefer the intuitive function and the perceptive attitude as described by the MBTI compared to those who are not diagnosed with ADHD. The personality characteristics of intuition and perception, as measured by the MBTI, were specifically compared and evaluated. Creativity, measured by the Figural A form of the TTCT, was also compared and evaluated. The subjects consisted of 110 adults at least 18 years of age; 54 had been diagnosed with ADHD and 56 were not diagnosed with ADHD. The subjects were matched by age and gender when possible. The statistical methods used to compare the subjects were the Chi square for the MBTI and T-tests for the TTCT. The results of this study indicated that there was no significant difference in creativity between the ADHD subjects and those without ADHD. The study did, however, demonstrate that there was a correlation between personality type and ADHD subjects. Specifically, there was a significant (p <.001) correlation between the intuitive (N) function and the perceptive (P) attitude of the MBTI as being highly represented in the ADHD sample. This study contributed to the understanding of the ADHD personality. It provided information which may improve the way in which a person with ADHD should view themselves, with a positive rather than negative attitude. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2005 APA, all rights reserved)

Arousal, time estimation, and time use in attention-disordered children.
Year of Publication 1999
Author Shaw, Geraldine; Brown, Geoffrey.
Source Developmental Neuropsychology. Vol 16(2) 1999, 227-242. http://www.leaonline.com/loi/dn
Abstract To assess whether increased arousal would differentially affect time estimation in attention-disordered and normal English 13-yr-olds, 2 videotapes (1 of a police car chase for high arousal and another of cell division for low arousal) were shown. Self-reported arousal levels strongly correlated with pulse-rate change. Attention-disordered students estimated longer times in the low-arousal condition than normal students but not in the high-arousal condition. This evidence supports the cortical underarousal hypothesis as the basis for attention disorder. Compared to normal students, such children were poorer in use of time but better in imagery-based creativity tasks in high-arousal conditions. It would appear that attention-disordered children are unable to self-motivate in low-arousal situations.

Creative thinking, vividness of imagery and simultaneous information processing in children who have been diagnosed ADHD: The organismic child.
Year of Publication 1997
Author Mead, Sandra W.
Source Dissertation Abstracts International: Section B: The Sciences and Engineering. Vol 57(9-B), Mar 1997, pp. 5925.
Abstract The purpose of this study was to examine the assumption that some children who have been diagnosed ADHD (314.01, DSM-IV, 1994) gather and process information using modes of thinking, knowing and learning that do not correspond to nor respond to currently traditional evaluation procedures of treatment planning. Fifty-eight children ages 7-10 who had been diagnosed ADHD were assessed for levels of creative thinking, vividness of imagery, simultaneous information processing and complex integrated mental behavior. The selected children were expected to form vivid images; prefer simultaneous information processing; and present creativity all at a rate above the norm; and further, to present integrated mental behavior below the norm. The children were approached and the data interpreted through the theoretical framework of organismic self-referential self-regulation. While the hypotheses were not confirmed, results suggest that these children were making an effort towards self-regulation using covert premature closure processes. While some scores in the assessment were depressed due to this process, it did not prevent the children as a group from revealing complex integrated mental behavior (N = 38); simultaneous as preferred mode of information processing (n = 38); fluency (n = 38); originality (n = 40) and evidence of creative strengths (n = 34) all equal to the norm. The data revealed complex diversity that indicated the need for individualized attention to these children. Selected subgroupings within the sample are discussed. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2005 APA, all rights reserved)

Hyperactivity and creativity: The tacit dimension.
Year of Publication 1992
Author Shaw, Geraldine A.
Source Bulletin of the Psychonomic Society. Vol 30(2) Mar 1992, 157-160.
Abstract Performed discriminant analysis on the combined data from previous research by G. A. Shaw and G. Brown (see record 1991-31754-001) of high-IQ children with attention disorder and hyperactivity. Left-sided laterality, the ability to perceive coherence tacitly, the use of incidentally acquired information, stimulation seeking, and the use of imagery in problem solving and in a creativity task best discriminated these Ss from normal children. Figural creativity is best predicted by the ability to perceive relationships tacitly, by good memory for pictured objects, and by verbal creativity. A model is proposed to help explain the functioning of intelligent and creative attention-disordered individuals. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2005 APA, all rights reserved)

Laterality, implicit memory and attention disorder.
Year of Publication 1991
Author Shaw, Geraldine A; Brown, Geoffrey.
Source Educational Studies. Vol 17(1) 1991, 15-23. http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/carfax/03055698.html
Abstract Assessed 97 6th-7th graders who presented with behaviors characteristic of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), but who had high IQs (115 or above) on a range of tests (cognitive abilities, verbal and figural aspects of problem solving, and creativity). In spite of cultural differences, results duplicated the earlier findings of G. A. Shaw and G. Brown (see record 1990-25919-001), suggesting a stable pattern of characteristics associated with ADHD and high intelligence. These Ss had more mixed laterality and allergies; used more diverse, nonverbal, and poorly focused information; and showed higher figural creativity than did high-IQ Ss without attention problems. Results support N. Geschwind's (1984) prediction that high talent would be found in some types of learning-disordered individuals. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2005 APA, all rights reserved)

Laterality, implicit memory and attention disorder.
Year of Publication 1991
Author Shaw, Geraldine A; Brown, Geoffrey.
Source Educational Studies. Vol 17(1) 1991, 15-23. http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/carfax/03055698.html
Abstract Assessed 97 6th-7th graders who presented with behaviors characteristic of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), but who had high IQs (115 or above) on a range of tests (cognitive abilities, verbal and figural aspects of problem solving, and creativity). In spite of cultural differences, results duplicated the earlier findings of G. A. Shaw and G. Brown (see record 1990-25919-001), suggesting a stable pattern of characteristics associated with ADHD and high intelligence. These Ss had more mixed laterality and allergies; used more diverse, nonverbal, and poorly focused information; and showed higher figural creativity than did high-IQ Ss without attention problems. Results support N. Geschwind's (1984) prediction that high talent would be found in some types of learning-disordered individuals. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2005 APA, all rights reserved)

That is all I could find in psychinfo ^^^ Looks like we are good at some types of creativity.

It's interesting how the first study says we have better divergent thinking and the third one says it is reduced on ritalin. I know other aspects of cognition improve on meds. I guess it makes sense in a way. Looks like we are better at visual creativity.

Re the myers briggs study, here are some descriptions of the intuitive and perceptive scales

Intuitive:

Some of us choose to rely on our five senses. Some prefer taking in information through our "sixth" sense. Sensing people are detail oriented, want facts, and trust them. Joe Friday from the TV show Dragnet epitomizes the extreme sensing detective. All he ever wanted was "just the facts".

Intuitive people seek out patterns and relationships among the facts they have gathered. They trust hunches and their intuition and look for the "big picture." The quintessential intuitive was Albert Einstein whose fanciful thought experiments revolutionized the 20th century. He could see patterns where others saw randomness or chaos.

The majority of undergraduates are sensing students. Based on data from the Center for Applied Psychological Type (CAPT) between 56% and 72% of over 16,000 freshmen at three state universities were sensing students. Interestingly, almost 83% of national merit scholarship finalists and 92% of Rhodes Scholars were intuitive students. Our own data base indicates that over 65% of business majors are sensing students.

The majority of university faculty are intuitive. CAPT reported that almost 64% of 2,282 faculty are intuitive. We obtained the same percentage from our business faculty data base.


Perceptive:
Some of us like to postpone action and seek more data. Others like to make quick decisions. Judging people are decisive, planful and selfregimented. They focus on completing the task, only want to know the essentials, and take action quickly (perhaps too quickly). They plan their work and work their plan. Deadlines are sacred. Their motto is: just do it!

Perceptive people are curious, adaptable, and spontaneous. They start many tasks, want to know everything about each task, and often find it difficult to complete a task. Deadlines are meant to be stretched. Their motto is: on the other hand ... .

The majority of undergraduate students are judging students. Based on data from the Center for Applied Psychological Type (CAPT) between 46% and 60% of over 16,000 freshmen at three state universities were judging students. Interestingly, almost 64% of Rhodes Scholars were perceptive students. Our own data base indicates that over 70% of undergraduate business students are judging students.

The majority of university faculty also have a preference for judging. CAPT reported that almost 65% of 2,282 faculty prefer judging. We obtained the same percentage from our business faculty data base.

From another site

S/N scale: Area 2: Sensing/Intuition, two different preferences, complimentary ways of taking in information. The sensing function takes in information by way of the five senses--sight, sound feel, taste, and smell. This is what they trust most. The intuiting function processes information by way of a “sixth sense” or hunch. This is what they trust most. Both ways of perceiving and taking in information are used by everyone, but one is usually preferred and better developed (and trusted). People with a prefe rence for intuition focus on the future and possibilities. Sensing: here now, real . . . Basic issue between the two is the issue of time. Also, specifics versus patterns or context. Sensing: individual tree; Intuition: forest. Everyone takes in both kinds of information; but, greater weight is given to one or the other. Intuitive types like the opportunity to look at things in new ways. Sensing types think intuitive types are impractical and dreamers. I . . . Sensers likes set procedures, established routines. Intuitive likes change and variety. Sensers may seem materialistic and literal-minded to Intuitive. Intuitive may seem fickle, impractical dreamers to S's. Those with a preference for sensing like to gather facts and details, concrete information. Those with a preference for sensing like to experience the world directly, relying on the physical senses. Because they trust and rely upon what they experience, those with a preference for sensing tend to be practical people. They like specific detail, are present oriented and trust their own experience. They are usually patient with routine and usually enjoy using skills they have already mastered. Those with a preference for Sensing naturally look for details, facts and concrete information while those with a preference for intuition look for patterns, meanings, relationships and possibilities for the way
things could be. People who prefer intuition usually focus their attention on what lies beyond the surface. For them, future possibilities are often more important than present realities. They envision for the future easily. They generally love learning new skills and trying new experiences. The might be abstract and theoretical. They are patient with complexity as they try to see the big picture. In our American population: S = 65-70%; N = 30-35%.


J/P scale: The fourth set of preferences has to do with how we live our everyday lives, one of two basic approaches. Jung only alluded to this set of preferences. Myers and Briggs named and developed them. Again, a reminder about vocabulary. Judging does not mean judgmental and Perceiving does not mean perceptive! JUDGMENT and PERCEPTION which are terms are complimentary lifestyles. Judging does not mean judgmental; it means having a preference for making decisions. A judging lifestyle is decisive, planned and orderly. Perceiving - a perceptive lifestyle is flexible, adaptable, and spontaneous. Perceivers like freedom to explore . . . no limits. Both attitudes are part of everyone’s lifestyle, but one is usually preferred and better developed. J/P: different perceptions of time. Another sense of distinguishing between the two is the internal “press.” Perceivers have a rush of energy around deadlines. That is where they get their drive to do things. With a six-month project, the J will feel press right away. A P will not feel it until towards the end. Perceivers don’t want to come to closure prematurely. Perceivers like to continue using their perceiving function. Judgers like deciding. But, everybody does both. Do we prefer structure (J) or spontaneity (P)? Do we reach decisions quickly (J) or prefer to look at all our options first (P)? Those with a preference for Judging prefer to make decisions quickly. They feel more comfortable with things are settled and organized. People with a preference for Judging like to know the objective that will be achieved before any activity takes place. They enjoy planning and deciding. They feel more comfortable when things are decided. Once they have decided something, they can relax because they have a structure. They usually like to complete one project before beginning another. They generally think of themselves as organized and purposeful with steady work habits. They commit easily to plans or decisions and often finish tasks before deadlines. Those with a Perceiving preference are
opposite. They prefer taking their time and taking in as much information as they can before closing off options to make a decision. They like to stay flexible, keeping their options open. When new information is presented, Perceivers tend to reconsider and may change their minds. People with a Perceiving preference are open to seeing things from a variety of perspectives. They often work in spurts with varying levels of intensity. They may enjoy working on several projects simultaneously. They tend to be adaptable and are able to tolerate ambiguity. They are motivated by deadlines and usually prefer to finish tasks no earlier than the deadline. In American society: J = 50-55%; P =40-45%.

There are two other scales as well. Maybe we should do our own research. There is a myers briggs type indicator on the web.

There are two other scales as well. Maybe we should do our own research. There is a myers briggs type indicator on the web.We have had a poll on this:

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=985

The NP type is extremely highly represented.

Oh damn!

Wow so many infps! They are supposed to represent 1% of the population but they represent 24% of the population of this forum. Far out!!

I wonder if people rated themselves for before they went on meds there would be even more NPs!

I, posted enough articles about this subject matter, on here, as it is, Scuro, Dawlin'.


Nova (winkin' at ya)

I'm one of those. (0;

Sorry, I can't read all of the above. But I want to put my 2 cents worth in and say that I believe I'm a bit more creative than norms because I come at everything from a different angle. My lack of understanding of the norm's world is because I don't see things as they do - but I DO see things! Just differently.
That doesn't make a lot of sense. Doesn't really describe what I'm thinking...
Does anyone understand?
What am I saying? Of course people here do. :rolleyes:

Yes! I do!

Yay! Thank you Nova. :D

Many years ago - almost in another lifetime I was a biotechnology scientist (molecular biologist). While I wasn't the sharpest tack on the block, I did have the honor of working with more than my share of current Nobel laureates and many who went on to become Nobel laureates (in Biology and Chemistry).

Many of these people had ADD big time! They really did forget to tie their shoelaces, and couldn't get along without an assistant to organize their lives. The image of the "absent minded scientist" really held true in these cases. There were exceptions, however, but few and far between. So I would definitely link ADD to creativity. Too bad it didn't work out that way for me. Unfortunately, as we all know, ADD can screw up things so badly as to hinder success as well.

yes i think add /adhd dose inhace crativity skills the artest see things from so meany diff points an can mixs diff demionle styles ie to mix say goth with a imprisionist with say oils an arcrilxcs the art......is a true way to expresss them selfs....i aslo know for fact that dyleaxa dose do the same thing id aslo think being closely related that they work on the same areas brain its possable that the same in depiesion say birpoler when going though amkct favssss ie when there creatvite gose outer control so theres so meany links to think about....whats everyones eles take on this ;.)))) dorm

this isn't scientific in any way, but i thought i'd post my personal experience. i'm a graphic artist with ADD. i was diagnosed & started ritalin last fall. in the last couple of months, i've noticed a pattern. during the day, while i'm on ritalin, i'm better (but still not that great) at scheduling projects, organizing files & communicating with clients/vendors. in the evening, when the ritalin has worn off, i find myself feeling more creative & better at design & illustration. as long as i've set everything up during the day, i feel i can let my mind wander & come up with unique ideas in the evening.

Thanks geckogirl for finding all that information. Food for thought. :)

You're starting to remind me of Mctavish...

He used to say *thanks* in that same manner...

I miss him.

McT is a class act. Not only does the guy know so much, but he learns from his mistakes, and he can be as gracious as all get out. Best of all he loves giving the Scientologists a good kick now and then. Now that is my type of guy. :)

I really think there is connection between AD/HD and Creativity. But creativity is a double edged sword. There times when my creativity has helped me but there are also times when my creativity hurts me. What good are my "creative" thoughts if they get in the way of me doing things that I really need to do.

I'm an INFP and I scored really high on intrapersonal skills in a multiple intelligences assesment. I'm always in my own head...And I can get lost in it too...lol

What happened to Mctavish? Is he gone for good? I know nothing of him leaving :confused:

I was wondering about that too! I haven't seen him post in so long...

I'd even love to see any study that states that creativity is enhanced by ADHD. Are we really that much more creative then norms?

I don’t know about ADDers in “general” but I think the ones who post here probably are…… as I have read some of the stuff posted by Barbyma, McT and even you ADDers in and of themselves as an entire group can run the gamete of very bright to not the sharpest knife in the kitchen.

Sense I have read these posting and some thing written by CarlaB. I have begun looking at post and even some of ADDF membership profiles and I believe the ADD group that post here tend to represent the higher functioning ADDer population however I think that the results from studies may represent the more sever ADD population that would stand out like a bandit…………….. which IMHO is the reason for many a conflict here!

Many higher functioning people do not like being placed into the “can’t” group. Those who truly can’t majority haven’t gotten as far as the internet and even fewer have managed their way to ADDF!

I think the crowd here creativity and their ADD do go hand in hand………..because they are of the higher functioning spectrum of the ADD population………… this came in a flash when I was responding to another thread just before leaving for “home” Wednesday………..that folks here are not the representation of the most severely dysfunctional. I see a lot of professionals in the membership here…….of those not already in a profession many are seeking in obtain one!

Could this thinking just be another ADHD subjective blindness that we generally accept?

I not only serve to annoy folks here like Scuro I even belong to a debate forum that is a general debate forum……..and I will admit that ADDF more than prepared me for the general population…......in the area of debates. I walked in with what felt like a head start……….blowing a bunch of “norms” away was like no problem after being here for slightly longer than 18 months!

Today I gave my daughters college educated boy friend a surprise when her apparently dingy mom whipped out a brain! Used stuff I researched two months ago then polished off with a second research done in another area but it fit soooo well I would venture to say that lack of boundary isolation (an ADD trait) was a factor


Even if ADD and creativity can’t be connected by empirical evidence I think when some one has both ADD and creativity then they are intertwined in that person because without ADD the person would be different than the one that exist now……and I have read more than once many here believe that it is their creativity that keeps them employed!

Is this a myth built up by the ADHD self-help industry?


It doesn’t really matter what studies say when my back is against the wall what matters is if my creative ADD can get my hyper hinny out of what ever predicament I have found myself in…………..some situations are caused by my impulsive self however most are just the run of the mill life happens! Now what ???? I see little reason to question what I live or believe in order to satisfy some ones else’s need to shove me into some statically orientated box for reasons unknown!


Why remove people’s reason to see the positive in a condition they are going to have no matter what sort of out look they have? Might as well see the positive aspects like creative, free spirited, and unique, along with the chronic tardiness, loss of keys, and over cooked dinner!


It doesn’t matter if I see creative free spirit, or dysfunctional disaster ADHD is a part of being me!!!! I did not choose to have it, no one asked me if I wanted to be ADHD…………I was simply “blessed” with ADHD; “acquiring” it was beyond my control! However what is under my control is my attitude!!! My attitude is some thing they can’t study or put in statistics, or beat out of me (already been tried)……………it is mine and I am sticking to it!

P.S. I am backkkkkkkkkkkk

I have begun looking at post and even some of ADDF membership profiles and I believe the ADD group that post here tend to represent the higher functioning ADDer population however I think that the results from studies may represent the more sever ADD population that would stand out like a bandit…………….. which IMHO is the reason for many a conflict here!
Interesting theory, you would think that researchers would screen for that sort of bias.


I not only serve to annoy folks here like Scuro...
Someone has to keep me on my toes! :)

Even if ADD and creativity can’t be connected by empirical evidence I think when some one has both ADD and creativity then they are intertwined in that person because without ADD the person would be different than the one that exist now……and I have read more than once many here believe that it is their creativity that keeps them employed!

Maybe, maybe not. Now if we went to the Depression message board or say the OCD message board, or the cutters board...would they all consider themselves to be more creative? Does being an outsider make you more creative in some areas? And if so, why? What I got from the studies above, was that some aspects of creativity may be enhanced by ADHD.

I see little reason to question what I live or believe in order to satisfy some ones else’s need to shove me into some statically orientated box for reasons unknown!
That could just be it! This sort of exploration of a topic may seem threatening to some.


Why remove people’s reason to see the positive in a condition they are going to have no matter what sort of out look they have?
Could be that some are looking for affirmation of their belief systems while others are looking to better understand the characteristics of this relativity new disorder. Some want to go forward with their life, others want more knowledge for their job or to help loved ones.


However what is under my control is my attitude!!! My attitude is some thing they can’t study or put in statistics, or beat out of me (already been tried)……………it is mine and I am sticking to it!
You got attitude all right. ;)

The people here seem pretty intelligent. I dunno about the spectrum of severity of ADD but it is independent from intelligence. I'm a case in point - my ADD sucks though my IQ is in the top 1%

your right carmolon i think the same way ive never evey though the same as norms do they to set in there ways inflixable....yes there costs to our gifts but in the end its the norms who are the one with poblems not us i gave up trying to fit in an non longer do lol....;.)))) yes jon your right add adhd can hinder what you wish to achive in life but as long as you as someone close to me said have faith in your self like others do nothing is impssaoble imporblembley maybe but never inpoassable rembers is not us with the porblm its that we dont fit the norms idea ofve how it should be we are who we are some go foradews thougher than we do but in the end we all in the same boat just going at diff speeds dorm i wish you an anyone eho reads this luck in what ever makes them happy cos it dont have to be a work thing to be happy ;.0))))

: I believe the ADD group that post here tend to represent the higher functioning ADDer population however I think that the results from studies may represent the more sever ADD population that would stand out like a bandit…………….. which IMHO is the reason for many a conflict here!Many higher functioning people do not like being placed into the “can’t” group. Those who truly can’t majority haven’t gotten as far as the internet and even fewer have managed their way to ADDF!


I agree with just about everything you said in this note, Tammy, and have a few related thoughts to offer.

First, yes, you are correct to sense that the people who tend to arrive in a forum like this skew to the "higher functioning" side of the ADD spectrum, no question. They have the resources, skills, means and awareness to find and plug into a place like this.

Ironically, this HF subset also represent a contingent who frequently have a harder time getting diagnosed, since as you note, the formal studies do tend to skew to those with the largest, most obvious struggles in life. As a result, a good many observers still equate ADD with dim or ditzy [no grin].

I even heard one "expert" say at a conference years ago that the higher functioning should not even seek diagnosis because it took resources and attention away from those who needed it "more." I think that kind of opinion is less often expressed out loud these days, but I have no doubt it still exists. In a word: sheesh. Would those same observers be so quick to wave off the bright and talented if, say, we were talking depression? Clearly not. But when it comes to ADD, they still do.

As for the creativity correlate, again, I think the instincts of all of you who perceive such a link are right on. Read the bio of any "extra high creative" and it sounds like an ADD story, right?

Kay Jamison MD, in her eloquent work about bipolar, has explored this link in depth and really believes in it. I think there is little question that a large contingent of those with ADD would probably be bipolar too if you turned up the dial to intensify their anamolies.

As I said in some note somewhere people with ADD live on the "tails" of many curves. That is, we occupy the extremes, even as the specifics vary. So finding that a large subset is extra bright or extra creative fits right in actually; it is just, for a number of reasons, less often mentioned or confirmed except when those affected gather in places like this :)

'As I said in some note somewhere people with ADD live on the "tails" of many curves.'


Great, great observation, Carla.

I'm not speaking about myself, when make this compliment to you, either.

Thanks much, Nova!

Glad it rang bells for others who live on the tails as well <gg>

Someone has to keep me on my toes

Hey some one has gotta do it :D



Does being an outsider make you more creative in some areas? And if so, why? What I got from the studies above, was that some aspects of creativity may be enhanced by ADHD.


Here is some thing that reminded me of you Scuro…..

Learning Discoveries (http://www.learningdiscoveries.org/ADDADHD.htm)

Quote***
The individual with ADD often possesses very positive and desirable qualities. However, these are often forgotten or overlooked as most of the attention is focused on the negative features of his behavior and personality.
Furthermore, several elements of the ADHD mind favor creativity (Hallowell & Ratey 1994). A working definition of creativity is the tendency to see life's elements in new ways, to combine personal experiences into new forms, to give shape to new ideas. These elements include:

1. Having a greater tolerance for chaos than most. For all the problems it can pose, it can also assist the creative process. In bearing with the tension of the unfamiliar and unknown, one can enable something new to come into existence. The very uncertainty with which ADHD people react to most stimuli allows for the messages to metamorphose before they solidify in the mind. This tendency to get things confused- so often the bedevilment of the ADHD brain- can enhance creativity.

2. Impulsivity. It could be said that creativity is impulsivity gone right. Creative thoughts happen unscheduled. Ideas and thoughts appear out of nowhere, on the wings of impulse. Nowhere is where most ADHD people live all of the time.

3. Hyperfocus. This capacity is often overlooked. Attention deficit is a misnomer. The difficulty is one with attention inconsistency. A child can be absorbed for hours on a model airplane or an adult can be obsessed with the completion of a project.

4. "Hyper-reactivity of the ADHD mind" (Barkley). People with ADHD are always reacting, even when they look calm and sedate they are usually churning inside, moving this piece of data and putting the idea on the fire to burn. Such hyper-reactivity enhances creativity because it increases the collisions in the brain. Each collision has the potential to create new light, new matter. The trick for the ADHD person is to harness these processes productively. Some people spend a life time trying. They burst with creative energy but like a live wire without a socket to plug into, they dispel their energy
***End Quote

Hey Barkley said some thing positive in #4!


That could just be it! This sort of exploration of a topic may seem threatening to some.

When one is secure in their own perspective then there are no threats via means of diverse opinions………… security does not equal unmovable- secure structure in my mind is much the same as that seen in buildings……some flexibility is required.

My use of above source and first notation about Barkley should indicate this!

I refuse to shove my self into others statistical boxes has more to do with personal preference……I became a very young mother (15 years), suffered various abuses, my exposure to illicit drugs (by 12), untreated ADHD, dyslexia, ninth grade high school drop, out my chances of becoming a professional any thing were statistically what??? How about a professional two things?? Exactly! Statistics are like people boxes made to be broken free of despite the odds! A meadd823 ADHD specialty……like a favorite hobby!

Personal point completed………statistics do not determine my out come in life…… :eek: ….I have determined my own p* :cool:

Nice try though! :p


Originally posted by meadd823:
Why remove people’s reason to see the positive in a condition they are going to have no matter what sort of out look they have?



Originally post by scuro:
Could be that some are looking for affirmation of their belief systems while others are looking to better understand the characteristics of this relativity new disorder. Some want to go forward with their life, others want more knowledge for their job or to help loved ones.

:confused: Although I agree with the above……the connection to the indicate quote was like ???? for me! Clarification would be appreciated! :confused:

Just looking at the report I got in high school (MY SIGNATURE) it seems to agree..

although, honestly, I don't even remember liking art..or even going to art..LOL..
maybe I was creative...

Ironically, this HF subset also represent a contingent who frequently have a harder time getting diagnosed, since as you note, the formal studies do tend to skew to those with the largest, most obvious struggles in life. As a result, a good many observers still equate ADD with dim or ditzy [no grin].

Even some of those of us who learned to use the outer appearance of ditz aren’t exactly dim! I often allow people to perceive what they will……have any idea how much information is opened up in front of those considered to daft to “get it”… I do not look like an information monger……….well unless one actually lives with me and has to navigate over my diverse masses of books, which can resemble a maze!




I even heard one "expert" say at a conference years ago that the higher functioning should not even seek diagnosis because it took resources and attention away from those who needed it "more." I think that kind of opinion is less often expressed out loud these days, but I have no doubt it still exists.

...........again and I am the one with the "disorder" :mad:
High functioning radicals intelligent radical social differential ADHDer with hyper motivation trapped by civilized societies…..no chemical relief………. a good thing in the long run? Maybe for us! :D



In a word: sheesh. Would those same observers be so quick to wave off the bright and talented if, say, we were talking depression? Clearly not. But when it comes to ADD, they still do.

Bias is such a hard thing to over come……well unless one is particularly forgetful of boundary things like that!



Interesting theory, you would think that researchers would screen for that sort of bias.

I believe they try but often the folks used in the research are from community centers, and observance by teachers and other professionals………..who you ID as having ADHD are more than likely the kids who are the most “non-functioning” in you class room am I correct?

Any thing that uses a type of observation of one human by another can’t help but be in danger of bias on some level! :soapbox:

Researchers even research their own bias- (now I have read it all) :faint:

Researcher researching research (http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~maccoun/ar_bias.html)

Quote snippets***
I refer the interested reader elsewhere for discussion of bias in the conduct
of research, including research design (Campbell & Stanley 1963), choice of
study populations (e.g. Graham 1992, Hambrecht et al 1993), statistical analysis
(e.g. Abelson 1995, Rosenthal 1994), data presentation (e.g. Huff 1954,
Monmonier 1996), experimenter gender (e.g. Eagly&Carli 1981), and experimenter
expectancies (Campbell 1993, Harris 1991, Rosenthal 1994).

Analyses of student ratings of the quality and persuasiveness of these studies
revealed a biased assimilation effect.students more favorably evaluated
whichever study supported their initial views on the deterrent effect, irrespective
of research methodology. Students. open-ended comments reveal how either
methodology.cross-sectional or longitudinal.could be seen as superior
or inferior, depending on how well its results accorded with one.s initial views.
I have cited a wealth of evidence that biased research interpretation is a common
phenomenon, and an overdetermined one, with a variety of intentional,
motivational, and purely cognitive determinants. But there is danger of excessive
cynicism here. The evidence suggests that the biases are often subtle and
small in magnitude; few research consumers see whatever they want in the
data. The available evidence constrains our interpretations.even when intentions
are fraudulent.and the stronger and more comprehensive the evidence,
the less wiggle room available for bias. In addition, far from condemning the
research enterprise, the evidence cited here provides grounds for celebrating it;

systematic empirical research methods have played a powerful role in identifying
biased research interpretation and uncovering its courses.
Nor are all biases indefensible. There are some normative grounds for accepting

differing opinions about imperfect and limited research on complex,
multifaceted issues. There is nothing inherently wrong with differing standards
of proof and nothing shameful about taking an advocacy role.provided
we are self-conscious about our standards and our stance and make them explicit.

Fostering hypothesis competition and a heterogeneity of views and
methods can simultaneously serve the search for the truth and the search for
the good. But there is a pressing need to better articulate the boundary between
adversarialiasm and what might be called heterogeneous inquisitorialism.a
partnership of rigorous methodological standards, a willingness to tolerate un-
certainty, a relentless honesty, and the encouragement of a diversity of hypotheses and perspectives.
End of quotes***