Has anyone one here been to any of the Amen clinics? It doesn't appear so but I thought I'd ask.

I haven't been. My therapist however went to some workshops by Dr. Amen. He felt that while he had something to offer that he went too far with his pushing for expensive SPECT scans that haven't been validated as effective by others outside his practice.


Scattered

I have never been there either.........think I was diagnosised before those things were known to the general public however I agree with Scattered docotrs statement about the SPECT thing!

Well, I have an appointment about 2 weeks from now. I'll let ya'll know what happens, good or bad.

Hi guys,

I went to a neuro-psychiatrist who is considered the second best in Australia for severe ADHD; I could never hold a steady job, never study, life was a bit bad.. at least I had my health. The first day that he saw me, he said I was the simplest case he's had in 6 years. He started drawing all this stuff up on the whiteboard and classified me as having Bipolar II disorder. He told me that Bipolar I is the one that is severe, not bipolar II.

Anyway, I got the SPECT scan done and it was expensive. He referred to the temporal lobes in the printouts from the scan, and it showed us where there were underreactive and overreactive chemicals in my brain. Without the scans he wouldn't have been able to prescribe accurately the right drug.

In looking at the SPECT scans and using the Amen classification ,He proceeded to give me mood stabilisers and this has been the best money I have spent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder#Diagnostic_classifications_of_bip olar_disorder

The point is that without a spectrum scan, the doctor is in the dark and simply guessing what chemicals are lacking. I believe that if your doctor does not request you to get a SPECT scan, and is trying you on all different medications, that would be a worry.

ADHD usually coexists to some degree with the following orders, but not limited to
ADHD = DEPRESSION + BIPOLAR + SCHIZOAFFECTIVE

This schizoid sense makes part, because the definition is to focus concentration very sharply. Perhaps symptoms associated with bipolar and schizophrenia tend to come out in later stages and more severe types of ADHD. and no.. I've never done drugs.

find out more info about SPECT scans here:

http://brainmattersinc.com

blashyrk -

Number one, "schizoid" and "schizophrenic" are not the same thing. The first is a personality disorder. People get them confused.

Number two, schizophrenia is virtually totally unconnected to ADHD. If someone with ADHD has schizophrenic family members, having ADHD appears to increase their risk of developing schizophrenia as well, but that's the only connection I've ever heard of. ADHD is not early-stage schizophrenia. If a doctor told you that, he's an utter quack, even if he did give you meds that help you.

I am glad you have found medications that help you however the information about SPECT-being a diagnostic tool in eliminating all other disorders is not entirely accurate!

From the reference provided to the Wikipedia encyclopedia I followed the links to the diagnosis section which reads a lot like the book I just read on bipolar.

diagnosis section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_diagnostic_criteria_for_bipolar_disorder)


Neither makes mention of SPECT being a diagnostic tool for evaluating bipolar!


He referred to the temporal lobes in the printouts from the scan, and it showed us where there were underreactive and overreactive chemicals in my brain.

Temporal lobes have what to do with emotional states I couldn’t help but wonder if they had any thing to do with bipolar or speech, facial recognitions, the price of fish at Fred’s?

I decided to go on a little research hunt and find!

“Users Guide to the Brain”
John Ratey M.D.
Pg. 161

…some types of funct6ions do seem to be more localized in certain parts of the brain than others. For example vision in the occipital lobe and the speech in the temporal lobe.

temporal lobes functions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe)

Begin Quote***
The temporal lobes are part of the cerebrum. They lie at the sides of the brain, beneath the lateral or Sylvian fissure. Seen in profile, the human brain looks something like a boxing glove. The temporal lobes are where the thumbs would be.

Behind (posterior to) the temporal lobes is the occipital lobe, where visual information first reaches the cortex. Above and to the rear are the parietal lobes. The temporal lobes enclose the hippocampi and amygdalae.


Function
The superior temporal gyrus includes an area (within the Sylvian fissure) where auditory signals from the cochlea (relayed via several subcortical nuclei) first reach the cerebral cortex. This part of the cortex (primary auditory cortex) is involved in hearing. Adjacent areas in the superior, posterior and lateral parts of the temporal lobes are involved in high-level auditory processing. In humans this includes speech, for which the left temporal lobe in particular seems to be specialized. Wernicke's area which spans the region between temporal and parietal lobes plays a key role (in tandem with Broca's area, which is in the frontal lobe). The functions of the left temporal lobe are not limited to low-level perception but extend to comprehension, naming, verbal memory and other language functions.


The underside (ventral) part of the temporal cortices appear to be involved in high-level visual processing of complex stimuli such as faces (fusiform gyrus) and scenes (parahippocampal gyrus). Anterior parts of this ventral stream for visual processing are involved in object perception and recognition.
The medial temporal lobes (near the sagittal plane that divides left and right cerebral hemispheres) are thought to be involved in episodic/declarative memory. Deep inside the medial temporal lobes, the hippocampi seem to be particularly important for memory function, and they also seem to play a part in controlling spatial behavior.
End Quote****

Lets break this thing down for real!!

“The Bipolar Disorder Survivor Guide”
David J. Miklowitz, PhD.
Page 87


Begin Quote***
To get technical for a moment, we strongly suspect that people with bipolar disorder have disturbances in the production and catabolism (chemical breakdown) of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine, dopamine, acetylcholine, serotonin amd GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid). We believe that some of these neurotransmitters are over or underproduced during different pahses of the illness, then not broken down quickly enough, or broken down too quickly. We also know that people with bipolar disorder and unipolar depression have an abnormal production of horomones ( for example glucocorticoids such as cortisol) produced by the adrenal glands when the person is under stress. Long term stress and glucocrticoid overproduction may damage or destry cells in the hippocampus, a brain structure that is important component of the limbric system which regulates emotional states. Sleep, and arousal (Sapolsky, 2000; Manji, 2001)
End Quote***

Underline mine!

I am sorry my sources disagree with the explanation you were given. I did post my findings in the interest of others who may be currently following this thread as well as those who may stumble upon it in the future!

I encourage all who read this post to please thoroughly research all treatments and diagnostic procedures especially if they are expensive (if $$$ is expeced in full up front make this a rule)!

Coming to this thread a little late...

I got my ADD diagnosed with a SPECT scan at an Amen Clinic. Great group of people and they were very open/responsive to any questions I had.

From what I've read and in talking to the people at the clinic, a SPECT scan isn't always advised for every single person who comes in. They advise getting a scan if: 1. You've had a past head injury. 2. There's a history of dementia in the family. 3. If you have PTSD.

The scan was pricey but well worth it for me. If you don't want to do the scans, they can still do diagnostic testing, though I'm not quite sure what that entails since I didn't go through it.

I know there's a big question as to how valid a SPECT scan is in treating ADD. What's made the biggest difference for me is Dr. Amen's findings that a number of ADDers (myself included) lose bloodflow to their prefrontal cortex when they try to concentrate or are put into a pressured situation. This explained to me why I "froze" in a number of situations and when I tried to work through it, it got worse. Relax the pressure and it's easier to think through things. I've noticed this in postings from others here as well.

Healing ADD by Dr. Amen covers quite a bit of this and a number of ADD behaviors/treatments. It's one of the books I recommend to anyone who wants to learn more about ADD.

Jack I am glad you were helped however at this time research is still inconclusive about the value of imaging studies in the diagnosing of ADD .....in other words the accuracy of imaging doesn’t justify the cost when compared to through exam by qualified health care profession familiar with ADD.

Please bare in mind you mention previous head trauma this alone may indicate need for imaging to rule out injury. Image studies maybe useful during the diagnosis process as a means of ruling out other causes for the symptoms which was your case.

However the image studies them selves are not currently being advised as a diagnostic tool for diagnosing ADD!

I think there is a time when brain scans are important -- I'm less clear about how to know when that is. I think it is more important for what it rules out than for diagnosising ADHD. My father recently shared a story from a friend who had their daughter on stimulent medication for ADHD and for some reason had a brain scan where they discovered a brain tumor that was causing the ADHD like symptoms -- fortunately, they caught it in time and she's doing okay now.

Scattered

My father recently shared a story from a friend who had their daughter on stimulant medication for ADHD and for some reason had a brain scan where they discovered a brain tumor that was causing the ADHD like symptoms -- fortunately, they caught it in time and she's doing okay now.

Scattered you brought up one of the best reasons for careful follow up during ADD treatment. Tumors tend to grow and symptoms would more than likely appear progressive which my have prompted the doctor to go ahead with the imaging studies. This too would fall under the “rule out” category.

“Rule out” diagnostic testing is often used with unexpected out comes or unexplained progression of symptoms despite consertive first line medical treatments.

Excellent post Scattered!

Scattered you brought up one of the best reasons for careful follow up during ADD treatment. Tumors tend to grow and symptoms would more than likely appear progressive which my have prompted the doctor to go ahead with the imaging studies. This too would fall under the “rule out” category.

“Rule out” diagnostic testing is often used with unexpected out comes or unexplained progression of symptoms despite consertive first line medical treatments.

Excellent post Scattered!Thanks, Tammy!:) That makes sense about as the tumor grows symptoms get worse -- I couldn't figure out how they knew to look for something else.

Scattered

Okay I am totally late on this discussion, but I am always late so nothing new there. :p I was diagnosed at the Amen Clinic in Fairfield without the SPECT scan. This was almost eleven years ago. If I remember correctly I filled out a huge packet of info prior to my appt. Then my actual appt was like, six or seven hours long. I think they did some type of computer testing but I don't remember what it was, and a ton of background info, psych. review, physical workup. I don't remember what else but I do remember it was thorough and I spoke to a few different people. I was recommended to have the SPECT during my treatment there and my psych. even talked Dr. A into doing it for less than half price because my brain had so much stuff going on. But I still couldn't afford it at the time. I am now seeing a doctor who knows Dr. Amen and has worked with him. He is awesome and the first doctor to really think outside the box when it comes to my meds. So, now I am on quite a cocktail but after 11 years I think we have found a good combo and things are going great!:D

So, now I am on quite a cocktail but after 11 years I think we have found a good combo and things are going great

Glad to hear it all points of view aside finding a treatment that is effective is what's important!