If there is one thing that you often here from parents, it's that their kid's attitude sucks. They are not talking about the bad attitude that some ADHDers have although this is an issue for a number of ADHD kids. Rather, parents are talking about how these kids don't care, couldn't be bothered, and don't do much beyond meeting their immediate needs and wants.

The question I want to ask is, can the right attitude be taught to young ADHDers? Can a young ADHDers attitude be changed that way? Or could this be a developmental thing, where the young ADHD brain might not be typically ready to internalize and then act upon experience and knowledge until they are older. Or...could it even be that the skills needed to have the right attitude are at the heart of the impairment we call ADHD?


As a point of reference I'll use Steve Covey's 7 habits of highly effective teens.

Here are the seven chapter headings.

Habit 1: Be Proactive Take responsibility for your life.

Habit 2: Begin with the End in Mind Define your mission and goals in life.

Habit 3: Put First Things First Prioritize, and do the most important things first.

Habit 4: Think Win-Win Have an everyone-can-win attitude.

Habit 5: Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood Listen to people sincerely.

Habit 6: Synergize Work together to achieve more.

Habit 7: Sharpen the Saw Renew yourself regularly.

you have some good points there likes the 7 habits what ones do you adoped for your self ,,,,,if you dont mind me asking i think i have look at mine as well to make it fair ;.))) dorm

and again from the book which can be used further as another talking point.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?z=y&ean=9780743258159&brg=y&displayonly=CHP#CHP


The 7 Habits of Highly Defective Teens

Habit 1: React Blame all of your problems on your parents, your stupid teachers or professors, your lousy neighborhood, your boy- or girlfriend, the government, or something or somebody else. Be a victim. Take no responsibility for your life. Act like an animal. If you're hungry, eat. If someone yells at you, yell back. If you feel like doing something you know is wrong, just do it.

Habit 2: Begin with No End in Mind Don't have a plan. Avoid goals at all costs. And never think about tomorrow. Why worry about the consequences of your actions? Live for the moment. Sleep around, get wasted, and party on, for tomorrow we die.

Habit 3: Put First Things Last Whatever is most important in your life, don't do it until you have spent sufficient time watching reruns, talking endlessly on the phone, surfing the Net, and lounging around. Always put off your homework until tomorrow. Make sure that things that don't matter always come before things that do.

Habit 4: Think Win-Lose See life as a vicious competition. Your classmate is out to get you, so you'd better get him or her first. Don't let anyone else succeed at anything because, remember, if they win, you lose. If it looks like you're going to lose, however, make sure you drag that sucker down with you.

Habit 5: Seek First to Talk, Then Pretend to Listen You were born with a mouth, so use it. Make sure you talk a lot. Always express your side of the story first. Once you're sure everyone understands your views, then pretend to listen by nodding and saying "uh-huh." Or, if you really want their opinion, give it to them.

Habit 6: Don't Cooperate Let's face it, other people are weird because they're different from you. So why try to get along with them? Teamwork is for the dogs. Since you always have the best ideas, you are better off doing everything by yourself. Be your own island.

Habit 7: Wear Yourself Out Be so busy with life that you never take time to renew or improve yourself. Never study. Don't learn anything new. Avoid exercise like the plague. And, for heaven's sake, stay away from good books, nature, or anything else that may inspire you.

If we could instill motivation in my son, he would essentially be cured. He's in the second grade. Basically, if there is not something in it for him right here, right now, he's not interested in anyting even remotely resembling work. Even if it's relatively interesting, if it isn't as interesting in playing the gameboy or watching tv or staring blankly at the wall in that moment, he's not going for it.

From my own experience, I know that as we develop we generally learn motivation beyond instant gratification. Certain abilities start to converge, and we are able to delay gratification, or derive secondary gratification in the Pavlovian sense. We (ADHDers) just seem to develop this ability later than normals, and not as perfectly.

i def do that in this thred see what you think once its done ;.))) dorm

part of it is certainly the fact that it is often hard for the add kids to focus on, and therefore be motivated by, things which are not directly in front of them. but i think that there is often another issue involved in the lack of caring sometimes. sometimes kids who are bright and trying very hard, but who are continuously derided as being 'lazy,' and often punished or given so-called 'tough love' as a 'motivational' tactic, wind up getting discouraged. when the adults in their life are unable to see their effort, when they feel that punishments or rewards are arbitrary and unconnected to their level of effort, eventually they will just decide that if they're going to be punished no matter how hard they try, then there really isn't any reason to try hard at all. if they view the system as rigged, or arbitrary and capricious, or simply unfair, then they're going to stop caring.

even people without add would have the same response if put in that situation. when the game isn't fair, people don't want to keep playing.

If there is one thing that you often here from parents, it's that their kid's attitude sucks. They are not talking about the bad attitude that some ADHDers have although this is an issue for a number of ADHD kids. Rather, parents are talking about how these kids don't care, couldn't be bothered, and don't do much beyond meeting their immediate needs and wants.

The question I want to ask is, can the right attitude be taught to young ADHDers? Can a young ADHDers attitude be changed that way? Or could this be a developmental thing, where the young ADHD brain might not be typically ready to internalize and then act upon experience and knowledge until they are older. Or...could it even be that the skills needed to have the right attitude are at the heart of the impairment we call ADHD?

When I was an undiagnosed ADD kid I hated when adults criticised me for having a "bad attitude", especially when they never gave me a clue as to what was bad about it or how to have a better one.

Lately I've been looking at the similarities between ADD and Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder. A lot of ADD behavior is mistakenly believed to be passive aggressive. Perhaps because of this similarity some of the behavior treatments for PAPD can help with ADD as well:

"As with any of the personality disorders, individuals with PAPD cannot achieve a personality style that does not fit them temperamentally, nor is it realistic to work toward a personality change that is extraordinarily different than what they already are. Oldham & Morris (1990. pp. 195-202) suggest that the leisurely personality style is the non-personality disordered version of the passive-aggressive or negativistic individual. The traits of the leisurely personality style are:


the belief that these individuals have a right to enjoy themselves on their own terms in their own time;
the inclination to deliver what is expected of them and no more; "enough is enough;"
resistance to exploitation; comfortable refusal to meet unreasonable demands;
relaxed attitude toward time; and
resistance to feeling awe toward authority figures.

"Individuals with a leisurely personality style hold the independence of self as a first priority. They are comfortable with themselves and skeptical of others, especially authorities. They are watchful of people asking too much of them and skilled at saying no. They own their own time and use time as they want. They do not put the needs of others first nor do they go too far out of their way to please people. These are functional behaviors and would be compatible with the basic attitudes and beliefs of individuals with PAPD. As such, they could form the basis of treatment goals directed at behavioral change."

(from toad.net/~arcturus/dd/papd.htm)

I think the answer to your question is yes, the right attitude can be taught. My point is, looking at a kid as a leisurely sort sounds better for her self esteem than needing an attitude adjustment. It also seems like a better starting point for learning to be more productive.

BTW, those seven habits sound really helpful for ADD adults as well as for kids. Thanks for posting them, and also their opposites.

Right now, it seems I'm going to have to listen carefully to figure out how to help myself. I don't think I've ever had an unfriendly, negative or very disagreeable attitude, however, my approach to most kinds of work is still in a mess, leaving me as a kind of highly defective teen myself.


Commenting on The 7 Habits of Highly Defective Teens: Habit 1: React Blame all of your problems on your parents, your stupid teachers or professors, your lousy neighborhood, your boy- or girlfriend, the government, or something or somebody else. Be a victim. Take no responsibility for your life. Act like an animal. If you're hungry, eat. If someone yells at you, yell back. If you feel like doing something you know is wrong, just do it.
Sometimes I think about how it might've been possible to teach me much better, but I avoid blaming the schools, often because I concede that for now, ‘they don't know any better’. I don't yell at anyone, but instead speak too softly, which is sometimes even worse. As for acting "like an animal" or "doing something you know is wrong", I can prevent anything that I can convince myself has significant consequences. Even, for example, eating junk food is something I do with a lot of control. However, I frequently mess up in the area of not doing very much when much needs to be done (general clumsiness w/time). Habit 2: Begin with No End in Mind Don't have a plan. Avoid goals at all costs. And never think about tomorrow. Why worry about the consequences of your actions? Live for the moment. Sleep around, get wasted, and party on, for tomorrow we die.
I think about the short-term future all the time, but probably more in agitated fear than in planning. I think about the long-term future a lot, but with only a very confused sort of hope, and a generic goal of helping to improve society, where I'm always afraid I know way too little to be sure of what I'm good at. Habit 3: Put First Things Last Whatever is most important in your life, don't do it until you have spent sufficient time watching reruns, talking endlessly on the phone, surfing the Net, and lounging around. Always put off your homework until tomorrow. Make sure that things that don't matter always come before things that do.
I don't conciously put anything off, but it happens. I become impatient about figuring out what's happening, and soon enough I'm wrapped up in reading some news or updates or who-knows-what. I wouldn't dare lounge around, though, unless it were full-fledged sleep (I sometimes need to catch up on that), or deep thought about something on my mind. Likewise, I think reruns are a huge waste of time. I don't even watch much TV. Though on second thought, I sometimes do end up watching, say, someone playing an exciting video game, for a little bit. Habit 4: Think Win-Lose See life as a vicious competition. Your classmate is out to get you, so you'd better get him or her first. Don't let anyone else succeed at anything because, remember, if they win, you lose. If it looks like you're going to lose, however, make sure you drag that sucker down with you.
If anything, I'm too un-competitive. My mind can work with the idea of cooperation, but if my win can lead to someone else's loss, I'm sometimes tempted to let the other win. Unfortunately, sometimes people want students with a competitive spirit, and I'm just not one of them. Habit 5: Seek First to Talk, Then Pretend to Listen You were born with a mouth, so use it. Make sure you talk a lot. Always express your side of the story first. Once you're sure everyone understands your views, then pretend to listen by nodding and saying "uh-huh." Or, if you really want their opinion, give it to them.
I listen, and I think I manage to empathise with what others say, but it doesn't always make sense with the way I understand things, or it leaves some nagging questions unanswered, so I often fail to apply what's been said. Unfortunately, I'm too afraid of saying the wrong thing to speak up for myself frequently enough. Habit 6: Don't Cooperate Let's face it, other people are weird because they're different from you. So why try to get along with them? Teamwork is for the dogs. Since you always have the best ideas, you are better off doing everything by yourself. Be your own island.
Well, I'm trying and partially succeeding to be a part of the team in class. I sometimes struggle to find my own role in things. I figure I sometimes think too much about my own strategies, and probably hold them in too high regard, but I don't have so many anyway, and I definitely respect other's contributions to the plan. Habit 7: Wear Yourself Out Be so busy with life that you never take time to renew or improve yourself. Never study. Don't learn anything new. Avoid exercise like the plague. And, for heaven's sake, stay away from good books, nature, or anything else that may inspire you.
I exercise if I'm not too urgently busy for them to let me go to the gym. I probably end up spending a significant amount of time in some sort of relaxing or inspiring activity, though I don't get outdoors enough. I sometimes remember to study, but not as often as I'd like. My study techniques… could be better… and I'm as sickened as ever by the idea of memorizing by rote.


Well, that was a nice exploration of what my current behavior is, but I get the feeling that these seven rules are far from universal, and I'm going to need a lot more help to straighten things out.

I have a problem with Steve Covey's attitude. I think he's right in some things like you should try to understand people, but then maybe it would be a good idea for him to try to understand that teamwork is right for some people and working on one's own is right for some.

Apart from that the question is of course: What is the right attitude?
Covey talks about effective teens and to me being effective doesn't necessarily mean having the right (or even a good) attitude.

Then there's this thing that it's looked upon as better to be goal oriented than to be here-and-now oriented. Why's that? I would say it's a cultural thing, something that society promotes, but it's not necessarily written in stone.

The seven habits of highly defective parents and teachers


1. Never listen to me- do not try to understand why I think the way I do especially if you’re your self can not relate. I am an ADD teen therefore I must be lying.

2. Never ever value any thing I have to contribute- always assume I am making excuses or being selfish. What I am experiencing can not possible be real. Not matter what I say only what you perceive can be real... .because you know every thing including what it is like being me!

3. Always insist there is one way to do things-by all means never allow me to experiment or find my own personal style. Insist on doing things your way and if I fail then it is always me that has the defect because your way couldn't possible be flawed!

4. Don’t be an example- saying one thing and doing another is the standard of ineffectiveness and is a core principle. Correcting me for a behavior I learned from you is one of the most important elements by all means never ever see this annoying attitude in your self!

5. Criticize first/ assume the worst – always find fault never see my effort or genuine attempt…..assume the worst every time. Pick apart my every deed describing it as evil make sure to include every little thing!

6 Be inconsistent-keep me guessing so I know that coming to you for help is a waste of time! Be sure to say one thing and do another.

7. Always compare me to others-make sure every one can hear! be sure to squash any signs of individuality I may display....there is no room in society for unique individual traits or behaviors. Be sure to stomp on any spontaneous behavior or ideas I may have especially ones deviating from the norm!


A meadd823-original!

A meadd823-original!

And a good one too. I do see the type at school who fits your bill.

I brought Covey into the debate because his text is a reccommended source for our learning strategies class. This is a course that has been running for about a decade and we have found that it is generally not effective for ADHD kids. We still run the course but it is populated by LD kids and kids who are a little weaker. They get something out of Covey, planners, goals, and all the rest. About a 1/3 to 1/2 of the class is for homework. ADHD kids have the hardest time getting anything done during that time, while the other kids used that time well. The ADHD kids would forget or deny that they had work to do. If you called them on it, well then, the work was in the locker or at home. They would have no materials to work with...and all of this could be legit. They could actually forget they had any homework until you opened their notebook. Funny thing was, that they knew this "home work time" was at the end of the day but they often couldn't be "ready" for it even if they had to get something done.

So what is the right attitude? Let me try.....Understanding yourself, believing in yourself, and doing the right things to move forward.

Covey ignores the understanding and believing in yourself part and seems much more task oriented. Perhaps this is why when I taught his ideas, it went over like a lead ballon with the ADHD kids.

Nice list Meadd; I'll try to keep those in mind for the next time I need to sort out what teachers/parents aren't doing right.

So what is the right attitude? Let me try.....Understanding yourself, believing in yourself, and doing the right things to move forward.
Somehow, I feel like there was just as much useful wisdom in that as in all of Covey's seven points. :D

Of course, Covey seems like more of the Sensing/Judging type than the Intuitive/Perceptive type we ADDers would relate to and thus make some real sense of. (Like you said, he's rather restricted to the "task oriented" point of view.)

Interesting discussion.

My ADD 8yo son doesn't have a problem with attitude.

He's super-sensitive and often latches on to the negative. He is especially likely to believe a negative assumption (such as getting hit in the head with a basketball at recess was not an accident, or his favorite toy was missing, so his brother must have lost it).

Other than those and being rather emotionally immature (but working on it), he's got a great attitude.

My son works his butt off at school and during his karate classes. He sometimes complains about homework, but often puts in a little bit of extra effort.

We made sure when he started medication that he did not attribute any of his successes to the meds. We also make sure that he doesn't use his disorder as an excuse or a crutch. His teacher is instrumental in this effort.

We continue to reinforce his behavior with praise for HIM, not his meds, and continue to punish him for behavior that isn't up to standards, even if we can explain it through his disorder.

At the same time, we consciously avoid putting him in situations where his disorder will cripple him. We do not ask him to do homework or other things that require focus when we know he doesn't have meds in his system. We also arrange his day so that he can maximize the benefits of his meds.

Keep in mind, though, that my son's ADD problems are almost entirely manifest in performance and focus; he has never been a behavior problem. He has trouble listening when he's unmedicated, but he tries like he**.

OMG Barbyma..I wish you were my Mum while I was at school

Covey ignores the understanding and believing in yourself part and seems much more task oriented. Perhaps this is why when I taught his ideas, it went over like a lead ballon with the ADHD kids.

Hmmm you may be onto some thing here. In reality Scuro I see most people as doing what serves their needs……I will admit some have a weird way of going about this..… I mean most work why? To eat, we rear our children as best we can why? Because we want portions of ourselves to out live us! We act out when we want to be heard……no longer ignored……….we become angry when threatened………or our boundaries become violated!

People are attracted by Covey’s books why? Because they want to be effective? What if being effective is a goal you see as being impossible to obtain no matter how hard you try? Would you bother? Besides Covey doesn’t speak ADD! He is rather “dry” even to me who just spent ninety minutes reading about researchers researching research!

Perhaps it is in the seeing ADHD children as overly different………instead of overtly extreme!

If the reality exist most people do things to serve a need and ADHD kids respond to immediate gratification as opposed to delayed then it isn’t the difference in motivation but the timing in which the rewards are seen!


It is an extreme timing thing in more ways than one!


I do not know about all ADDers but I am motivated by much of the same stuff as others………the desire to be loved and understood, the yearning to “fit” some where to be a part of some thing………..to have portions of me live after I am gone, to have food to eat, money to spend…………!

When addressing Jr. High aged kids in special education maybe they have given up on a lot of things including amounting to any thing……..why bother being effective when it doesn’t matter how hard you try you are forgetful, late, disorganized, and not very bright!

I think this age is a time filled with doubt, social stress, and often depression and even anger! Impending puberty or fresh puberty means the world as you once knew it is gone forever!. fear, feeling of being lost in your own body, strange urges and interest, time of disequal Librium even for non-ADD kids then add the ADD extreme is it any wonder why so many turn to drugs to relieve the pain and confusion!

What do you think? I am openly guessing using my own twenty some thing memories here-lol

Attitude is some thing I choose for myself! During a time when I was on the brink of loosing my mind-I simply was same enough to see it coming –that is when I “saw” the atom model I have posted about before!

It is some thing I believe older adult ADDers can understand but I do not see it as some thing that would be useful to youngsters! It was only after practicing this seeing the positive, negative neutral thing for years did I become able to choose my attitude about life!

Years of educating myself about ADD and how it expressed itself in me did I come to my beliefs about that aspect of me……..as much as I am seen as living in denial nothing could be further from the truth………I lived in “disordered camp” for years before escaping that vision of myself!

Treating my ADD and learning every thing I could get my hands combined with love from my family, my faith in spiritual matters, and personal choice=origins of my attitude………no matter how one views it……….my attitude is a choice I have made………!

Time management and goal setting is one of the largest segments in the "self-help" segment of book sales, and Covey is one of the biggest fish in that pond. Think about it, who are these books directed at, to a large extent...folks with ADHD! I can prove that. How can I prove that? I purposely put in that section about “highly defective teens”, and got a good reaction from Tammy. Tammy is my litmus paper! :) Nearly every behaviour quoted in the “highly defective teens”, describes ADHD kids.

Funny, Covey wasn’t writing with ADHD kids in the back of his mind, because if he did, his system wouldn’t fail so miserably for ADHD kids. When you take time to consider what Covey writes, it's really not a bad system that he has devised, but it just won't work for ADHD kids. That is, unless someone sits on top of these kids and force feeds it to them. If you do that you are have become a surrogate “executive function brain” for your child and you have defeated the point that the principles are meant to self-help you change your life.

Back to good attitude. I’m leery of using myself or my children as examples here. I will do it quickly just to show that not all ADHD kids are alike. My classic ADHD daughter has good attitude. She gets things done and cares about where she is going. Yes, we are doing many good things as parents, but I think it is more that she has inherited an anxiety component from her mom and that anxiety drives her. My other two adhd kids are slugs. I’m going to generalize here and state that most ADHD kids are not born with a “good” attitude. They either learn it the hard way or they have parents who prop them up for an extended period of time. That is, until they start to develop characteristics needed to self help.

Tammy, on a personal note...I do not see you living in denial. Denial is when you think you don't have the disorder and you do. Or denial is when you see yourself having the disorder but it's a wonderful disorder that makes you something special. That is not the case with you.

Much of what you say is good and right. I believe good attitude is a process and the first step is becoming self aware. You have done that. Next is believing in yourself bacause if you do see nothing but negative you are in the bottomless pit. Finally comes the stage of doing the right things for yourself and I believe that journey is a lot harder if you haven't done the first two steps. And if I do sometimes harp on the negative, it's because I think sometimes that first step is ignored or papered over on this board. Sometimes I feel like I'm on the smurf board. :D

You are also right on the immediate rewards and positive feedback. In grade 9 or 10 often all these kids need is someone to help them get things done, to have self understanding(if they don't already have that), and to be understood by an adult. ADHD kids do think and dream about the future like other kids. Their compass just seems to be broken when they travel through time. And again, you are right...once they have failed too many courses they are smart enough to realize they have hit the point of no return, and give up.

Everyone, ADHD or not, is struggling to have the right attitude in todays' society. :(In industrialized countries, like most people who are on here are from, life is so fast-paced and concerned about material things it is depressing for the average person.

I do not believe that humans are designed for the society we live in.:mad: It is evident in the health (emotional and physical) problems people are having. There are so many choices and society is so concerned with having it all, that it is overwhelming for people without a disability, never mind those with one, such as ADHD. It wasn't that long ago that people were stuck according to birth social class, and it's still like that in much of the world, so I think everyone is still trying to adjust a flexible socio-economic society.

I think it is important for everyone to try to instill the right attitude in all children, ADHD or not. To people struggling just to make it in school or in a job, it is very disheartening! Not to be a scrooge, but I think parents and teachers can only do so much when society as a whole is sending a different message. On the positive side, it has to start somewhere! Why not with us!?!:p

I believe good attitude is a process and the first step is becoming self aware. You have done that. Next is believing in yourself because if you do see nothing but negative you are in the bottomless pit. Finally comes the stage of doing the right things for yourself and I believe that journey is a lot harder if you haven't done the first two steps.

Agreed! :D

I think it is important for everyone to try to instill the right attitude in all children, ADHD or not

Right on! ;)

Before we can teach attitude the pupil must first become self aware………..if one can’t be aware of self then there can’t be conscious decisions about internal matters like attitude!


Becoming self aware includes both the positive attributes and the negative ones. Although I am a motivated person who has a lot of creative energy, original ideas, and an even temperament. I am also tend to be too chatty, I am easily bored, a touch hard headed, I was born late and things haven’t improved with age…….chronic tardiness continues to be a problem!



and if I do sometimes harp on the negative, it's because I think sometimes that first step is ignored or papered over on this board

It is an attempt to reach balance……harmonious equal state of being………what all living things strive for I believe it is also called homeostasis!


I tend to divert away from the negative because of the years wasted feeling inferior……..I didn’t believe in my self, I felt like I was intellectually dim……………so I never tried past “getting by”………getting by was all I thought I could accomplish in life so that was as far as my goals went!

I wasted years………….good years living in “the bottomless pit” of continuous negative perception of self, situations, and 98% of the world’s population!

The thing that we do have in common is that we are driven by our personal perception both the ones we hold internally of our selves which greatly affects our interpretation of external events. We are ADDults at the opposite end of the ADD spectrum of behavior me being hyper while you “do not have a hyper-active bone in my body”…………….the internal “drivers” behind our reactions are probably similar to the ones that determine the attitudes of our children!

Attitude is a choice but we are also affected by genetic predisposition, environment, and past experiences……..as are our off-spring!



Sometimes I feel like I'm on the smurf board

Smurf ..crap I though you said surf…………I would rather surf than be a smurf…..even though I have never done either!

I also alternate my ADD moments with dyslexic ones! :o



In industrialized countries, like most people who are on here are from, life is so fast-paced and concerned about material things it is depressing for the average person.

Because society tends to focus on material stuff…….guess they never heard the saying “He who dies with the most toys dies any way!”



There are so many choices and society is so concerned with having it all, that it is overwhelming for people without a disability, never mind those with one, such as ADHD.

Over whelming for people with out a disability…………..shoot they are the ones who are society! It is their stupid rules we ADDers can’t conform to…………..it is their ideas of proper we can’t live up to!!!

But I do appreciate you making this statement as it brings me to the second reason why I have “an attitude” as scoro so honestly stated. :p

I often wonder why “we” are labeled “impaired” when there is so much ramped insanity most see as perfectly normal and often expected……….why am I “disordered” because my “kind” is in the minority…………. :confused:

People considered socially impaired are the ones who don’t get social clues or become confused by them! Really, why is that? :mad: Couldn’t be because they are stupid non-sense rules to begin with!!!

Some questions that frequently boggle my mind:

Why must I sit still to learn? Why can’t math be taught along with hop-scotch?

Spelling with dodge ball or in a gaming manner…….remote learning boring but I am the one who is “impaired”!

Why is it better to let some one you call a friend walk around in a dress that makes her look ten pounds heavier than it is to flat out say that dress broadens your butt by at least six inches! :eek:


Why are the incompent rewarded while the people who are the back bone of a company are worked harder………….punished?

Why do we let people who can’t balance a check book run countries?

Why do we let people who are uncaring self centered jerks remain teachers, and health care professionals?

Why are people intimidated by doctors when they are the ones paying his salary?

Why is it we insist on ruining beautiful land with yet another shopping mall…..isn’t the one two miles down the street close enough?

Why do humans see a wonderful climate, clear running streams, and breath taking scenery as a place to build hundreds of ugly people boxes? If it is beautiful we will move there and ruin it!

I assume that the reason none of this makes sense to me is because I am “dysfunctional”…………………I don’t “get it” because I have ADHD!




I think parents and teachers can only do so much when society as a whole is sending a different message.

Why do we continue to put up with stupid stuff than makes no sense………….if society is full of rotten apples why don’t we change it?



On the positive side, it has to start somewhere! Why not with us!?!


Now your talking pro-action instead of reaction! :cool: I like it already!

Maybe our children display the hopeless attitude they see in the adults around them..........they are "getting it" perhaps better than we know! :(

Everyone, ADHD or not, is struggling to have the right attitude in todays' society. :(In industrialized countries, like most people who are on here are from, life is so fast-paced and concerned about material things it is depressing for the average person.I think you're basically right here, but I also think we ADHDers tend to bring our chaos with us, no matter where we go. I ran away from all the hustle and bustle around me for years, finally settling in a rural area of Okinawa, surrounded by sugar-cane fields and overlooking the ocean. Very laid back here. But lo and behold -- all that chaos followed me here, too! It was then that I realized that the chaos wasn't around me, it was in my head. Hard to run away from your head... ;)

Wow I went half way down that post before I disgreed with something. :p
I often wonder why “we” are labeled “impaired” when there is so much ramped insanity most see as perfectly normal and often expected……….why am I “disordered” because my “kind” is in the minority…………. :confused:

People considered socially impaired are the ones who don’t get social clues or become confused by them! Really, why is that? :mad: Couldn’t be because they are stupid non-sense rules to begin with!!!

Impairment is not about how you act, how many of you there are, or even if you have difficulty communicating. Impairment means that the disorder, on some level, is messin' with your ability to function. So you can rude, blunt, and step on toes...BUT as long as you have friends, a loving family, and no one at work would see that side of you, no impairment.

Some questions that frequently boggle my mind:

Why must I sit still to learn? Why can’t math be taught along with hop-scotch?

Spelling with dodge ball or in a gaming manner…….remote learning boring but I am the one who is “impaired”!

Why is it better to let some one you call a friend walk around in a dress that makes her look ten pounds heavier than it is to flat out say that dress broadens your butt by at least six inches! :eek:

Why are the incompent rewarded while the people who are the back bone of a company are worked harder………….punished?

Why do we let people who can’t balance a check book run countries?

Why do we let people who are uncaring self centered jerks remain teachers, and health care professionals?

Why are people intimidated by doctors when they are the ones paying his salary?

Why is it we insist on ruining beautiful land with yet another shopping mall…..isn’t the one two miles down the street close enough?

Why do humans see a wonderful climate, clear running streams, and breath taking scenery as a place to build hundreds of ugly people boxes? If it is beautiful we will move there and ruin it!

I assume that the reason none of this makes sense to me is because I am “dysfunctional”…………………I don’t “get it” because I have ADHD!

Why do we continue to put up with stupid stuff than makes no sense………….if society is full of rotten apples why don’t we change it?

You have heart, you care. That is not an isolated ADHD trait. The indifference shown by many is a bad thing. This is nothing new. This biblical phrase sticks in my mind, "harden not your hearts...".

Some questions that frequently boggle my mind:

Why must I sit still to learn? Why can’t math be taught along with hop-scotch?
It can! The problem is identifying the needs of each individual child in time to do something about it....



Why is it better to let some one you call a friend walk around in a dress that makes her look ten pounds heavier than it is to flat out say that dress broadens your butt by at least six inches! :eek:
You are my kind of friend.

People's jaws drop when they hear the way my hubby will tell me that something doesn't look good on me, but I appreciate it!



Why do we let people who can’t balance a check book run countries?
Because nobody who is actually qualified or capable wants the job!



Why do we let people who are uncaring self centered jerks remain teachers, and health care professionals?
Because most people can't take the low pay, so there's a shortage and the uncaring self-centered jerks can get those jobs.



Why are people intimidated by doctors when they are the ones paying his salary?
Now, I know all the psychological explanations about authority & stuff, but this one still baffles me!




Why do humans see a wonderful climate, clear running streams, and breath taking scenery as a place to build hundreds of ugly people boxes? If it is beautiful we will move there and ruin it!
Because there are too many freekin' people in the world!!!! But, no, I'm not volunteering to leave it...:rolleyes:



I assume that the reason none of this makes sense to me is because I am “dysfunctional”…………………I don’t “get it” because I have ADHD!
Nope. You don't "get it" because most of it just doesn't make sense. Reality is pretty interesting, but also rather frustrating!



Why do we continue to put up with stupid stuff than makes no sense………….if society is full of rotten apples why don’t we change it?
Some of us are trying! :)

Wow I went half way down that post before I disagreed with something

Now that is scary-lol….must be slipping in my old age! :p



Impairment is not about how you act, how many of you there are, or even if you have difficulty communicating

Okay I got this far……….


or even if you have difficulty communicating

Okay this will have a student dinged disabled quicker than most others things I can think of (including the previous two mentioned above)…………….my difficulty communicating had school officials thinking I was retarded!

I did not understand then like I do now…………in the third grade I was seen as being unable to read………….or write..... really! Thus I was retarded because third graders are supposed to know how to do these things.

What I understand now is they thought I couldn't read or write because I could not properly say (pronounce) many common words nor could I spell them. It is easy to see why many believed I did not understand their meaning!

Two days of specialized testing. Cool puzzles, things that were like games dyslexia was the diagnosis…………in third grade I had the vocabulary comprehension of a sixteen year old…………the meanings of words was HOW I read!!! I got by merely memorizing books quickly….very quickly which is why my difficulty wasn’t caught until third grade where books had to many words to parrot the sounds of all in rapid fire fashion! I could comprehend the story but it was discovered I did not do some thing they called de-code!



how many of you there are

Spelling is an impairment here because I have to get the words spelling pretty close for others to understand what I am posting(more read correct spelling as opposed to incorrect)…………how ever spelling isn’t near the impairment when I write to my mom When writing other dyslexics spelling isn’t an impairment at all because they understand the way I write without me having to edit…….….the words do not have to be spelling correctly for them to comprehend……………….so impairment IMHO is relative not absolute!

Which is where we so often fail with our children…..we see impairment in terms of absolute……as opposed to relative. Many kids by Jr. High have basically given up and for what are obvious reasons…… :soapbox: ….all they have ever been is different, disorganized, failures, behaviors, and inferior in functioning! :( :(

Dyslexia is an obvious impairment correct?….in reality for many of us it simply our "native language"…….. yet it is still English………we know what the other is saying with out their having to edit……but less than 5% of the population will be able to comprehend!

Not all dyslexics can do this but there are many of us who can communicate in our “own language”… a few of them are members here….. :eyebrow:

Dyslexia makes reading post written by folks who’s primary language isn’t English easier………I do not depend too much on spelling to understand and the syntax can be jumbled quiet a bit and still not loose me……

I can read through post written well above my educational level because it is a context thing for me…I learn the definition as I read my limit is I need to know the meanings of 50% of the sentence I can comprehend the rest ….

NOW…………the million dollar question…… :D …… How impaired it that ? :cool:

Impairment isn’t about how you act

Notation!
I am responsible for editing my post as much as possible so all can understand. I have to be responsible and use spell checkers out the wazoo when posting in public or as a moderator…..it is not up to others to decipher because I am lazy or too arrogant to try and post in real English……...I am responsible and do understand there are times when not knowing how to spell sucks!

However...............

Many of our children are so burdened by their own disabilities and the inferior feeling that accompanies being unable to do the same things their classmates can especially at an age when they WANT to be like every body else (thank God we do out grow this)

IMHO..................

Relative….impairment is relative not absolute! This is what these LD. ADD kids need to learn; attitude will follow when they begin to see the things they can do especially when a disability leads to an ability………….ADDF helped me turn disability to ability by providing opportunity and exposer with high function individuals who understand at least the ADD…because LD’s tend to keep company with ADD wha la opens up the dyslexic thing at the same time!

Short attention span, distractible moderator, long post, oops forgot to edit last part of post..…..another responds any way……..accidental second language……..how? :soapbox: IMPAIRMENTS are RELATIVE!

PLEASE NOTE:
I had to have a loving parent who fought in my corner or I would have never had the drive to even attempt this ADDF experience!

LOVING PARENT………….have one be one!!! Best attitude medicine!

CARING ADULT------------->CHILD PERCEPTION---------------->ATTITUDE------------->BEHAVIOR!

small writting at the bottom-results enhanced but not guaranteed due to nature vs nurture thing=some variations may occure

EXAMPLE------The example is your attitude------------the attitude you desire others to display toward you is the one to adopt for self!



You are my kind of friend.

People's jaws drop when they hear the way my hubby will tell me that something doesn't look good on me, but I appreciate it!

It is comforting to know I am not alone in this confusion because I am the same way……if my butt looks six inches bigger or my stomach pooch becomes a possible pregnancy then I feel a friend would TELL me!

I once saw the cutest shirt in the mall and tried it on….my late faïence took one look at me in it and said “it looked better on the hanger”

Other women in the busy store all froze instantly waiting my response which was

“Thanks I thought so to but wanted to double check”

HOW can lying be considered friendship? Tact yes it is nice but please don’t flat out lie to me! I would rather have tacky truth than a nice sounding lie!

Sooooooooooo happy I am not the only one!




Nope. You don't "get it" because most of it just doesn't make sense. Reality is pretty interesting, but also rather frustrating!

Okay I feel better knowing things like this don’t make sense to well educated people either…………at the same time scary because you guys don’t know what is going on either…… :eek: ……Hey Barb who is driving this ship……..I always figured I missed some thing every one else got……figured I was merely dim…………..YIKES :eek: the truly “impaired” are making these silly rules :confused:



Some of us are trying!

Here is the plan you take the high road and I will take the low road (I am afraid of heights :o ) we’ll met in the middle! ;)

Impairment is not always relative. With ADHDers we see some of them totally impaired in childhood and this changes with time to the point where they funciton in society. We have gone over this before. With others it becomes a horrible slow motion crash and burn. This is influenced by some degree by the level of severity. This was discussed recently in the level of severity thread.

Should we then not identify so that we don't label and so that kids self esteem is not affected as yours was? Indentification is a double edged sword. One the one hand, an identification can be wrong(as in your case but happening less often as the folks who identify become more sophisiticated with their knowledge base) ....or those who are supposed to do something about it, take the wrong course of action(again, with time I believe that this is happening less and less often).

Yet, on the other hand, I have read countless examples of folks who thought the identification and the accommodations that that brings has made a major difference in someones life. ADHDXYZ recently had a post on this subject. I believe there was also a thread on this subject, and most ADHDers wished that they had known earlier that they were ADHD, then to not have known at all.

IMHO, identification works much better then ignorance. I had also been thought to be slow as a child. For my self esteem, I wish I had known back then so that there was a reason for my struggles. Good Spec ed teachers can make a huge difference. My identifed kids passed 97% of the courses that they took last semester. That is better then the average for the norms at our school. The other nice thing about an identification is that parents now have a legal stick and they can be ignorant folks over the head with it again and again, until they get it.

IMHO, identification works much better then ignorance.

Okay I said impairment is realitive not absolute…..My question is where did ya get the idea I would be against identification or looking for systems to assist kids who are struggling...or admitting the struggle exist???

Scuro it isn't an all or nothing thing proposition .......I have hyper activity= good thing when you are nurse / bad thing= in customer service (sit all day, on phone, no wiggles)

Relative dude relative to environment =impairment or trait or difference/ good/ not good/ which one is which is probably the most important thing about educating self about ADD in self! Not denial of tardiness, over cooked food, or loss of car keys!

Don't become a cook, agent at rental car agency, above all avoid all endeavors where the world will end if you are five minutes late=success/ failure/ bad attitude/ good one! It is all in context.....really ID of trait must be made to have idea of traits both good and bad!

I break out if I eat lemons. Are lemons inherently bad? For me yes /for others no…but a lemon is still a lemon an allergy is still an allergy itch scratchy…….allergy trait of meadd823 avoid lemons…….ID of problem = idea of answer!

Relative dude relative to environment =impairment or trait or difference/ good/ not good/ which one is which is probably the most important thing about educating self about ADD in self!

It ain't necessarily so.

From the age of say 8 to 15, I was impaired in all aspects of life. Put me in any environment and I was impaired. That is, unless I was by myself tobogganing...or exploring nature. There are also adult ADHDers who are permantly impaired in a number of enviornments because they have severe ADHD.

It's not the environment that makes you ADHD. You are ADHD and then the environment determines the degree of impairment ( if any ).

I once saw the cutest shirt in the mall and tried it on….my late faïence took one look at me in it and said “it looked better on the hanger”

We REALLY need a ROTFLMAO smiley!!!



……Hey Barb who is driving this ship……..I always figured I missed some thing every one else got……figured I was merely dim…………..YIKES :eek: the truly “impaired” are making these silly rules :confused: Unfortunately, THEY are. By "they" I mean a whole bunch of people that I would never invest time or energy to interact with. The majority of Americans -- even the world.

I hate to sound sour about people, but I'm just so far from a humanist.
It's kind of strange to admit that, because I'm also quite an optimist.... :confused:

The truth, IMO, is that we all have specific issues, strengths, weaknesses, etc. The one that people share on these boards is ADD, but that doesn't set us apart from the rest of the world. If we were all clumped into little boxes with our exact set of "abnormalities", we'd probably each be alone in the box.

That said, however, the majority of people don't think, yet the majority forms the culture we live in.


Here is the plan you take the high road and I will take the low road (I am afraid of heights :o ) we’ll met in the middle! ;)Deal.

Unfortunately, THEY are. By "they" I mean a whole bunch of people that I would never invest time or energy to interact with. The majority of Americans -- even the world.

I hate to sound sour about people, but I'm just so far from a humanist.
To borrow a line from The Barfly (great movie):
I don't hate people. I just seem to feel better when they're not around. :D

The truth, IMO, is that we all have specific issues, strengths, weaknesses, etc. The one that people share on these boards is ADD, but that doesn't set us apart from the rest of the world. If we were all clumped into little boxes with our exact set of "abnormalities", we'd probably each be alone in the box.

I agree another way of saying the same thing differently, sort of! ( me meds gone bye bye :o )




That said, however, the majority of people don't think, yet the majority forms the culture we live in.

I nominate this for scary thought of the day! ......... :faint:


Deal.
:D :D :D




From the age of say 8 to 15, I was impaired in all aspects of life.

Okay perhaps we have different views of “impaired”…..

I mean you could dress and feed your self could you not? Eight out of ten times you could find your way to school/ home; figure out location of 95% of your classes four out of five days!

I see impaired at least three eight hour shifts a week! Some of these people do not even know their own children…a few can’t recall their own name! That is impaired cognitive functioning!


You are ADHD and then the environment determines the degree of impairment ( if any ).

Remember as environment brings out the degree of “impairment” in individual contrast will bring out the observer’s perceptions of same impaired individual!

Gary is probably “impaired” in all areas of life however he does function……….ie he works, pays own bills, feeds self, is not destructive, seldom breaks laws, and can manage most superficial interactions, and business conversations!

Is he impaired? Well exactly what is functioning “unimpaired”?

Okay perhaps we have different views of “impaired”…..

I mean you could dress and feed your self could you not? Eight out of ten times you could find your way to school/ home; figure out location of 95% of your classes four out of five days!

I see impaired at least three eight hour shifts a week! Some of these people do not even know their own children…a few can’t recall their own name! That is impaired cognitive functioning!
I believe we do have a different view of impaired. I can understand this because you work in a hospital. But I do believe you can be functionally impaired. That is, you can do all the things that a regular person does but have no where near the same quality of life.

I can be charged with impaired driving in my province if I drink 3 beers. I'm positive I could fully operate a motor vehicle after a few libations yet my ability to do so would be to a lesser degree and also measurable.

An online dictionary definition of impaired. ->"diminished in strength, quality, or utility; "impaired eyesight".

On-topic somewhat:

But I do believe you can be functionally impaired. That is, you can do all the things that a regular person does but have no where near the same quality of life.
Speaking generally, this is true. Someone could be doing everything "like everyone else," but if they were under an unusual amount of stress doing so, that would be impairment...wouldn't it?


Randomly:

Unfortunately, THEY are. By "they" I mean a whole bunch of people that I would never invest time or energy to interact with. The majority of Americans -- even the world.

I hate to sound sour about people, but I'm just so far from a humanist.
*confused yet again*

(Source: dictionary.com)

1. A believer in the principles of humanism.
2. One who is concerned with the interests and welfare of humans.

3.
a) A classical scholar.
b) A student of the liberal arts.

4. Humanist A Renaissance scholar devoted to Humanism.
Which definition are you using? :confused:

But...yeah. People stink, basically. I'm not convinced that anyone who's ever had charge of the "ship" at any point really cared about anything other than their own self-interest. Unfortunately, the people who really want to drive the ship are those who should definitely not have the job. And those who SHOULD drive the ship don't want to!

Oh, but:

Why are people intimidated by doctors when they are the ones paying his salary?
I can't answer this one either, but I really want to know, because that's me! And it wasn't when I was younger. I wasn't afraid of a single soul until I was at LEAST 12 or so. And then something changed (gradually, I think), and I want to know why!

I don't hate people. I just seem to feel better when they're not around.
As a huge introvert, I think that is the best quote ever. :D I'm considering stealing it, and putting it in my signature.

->"diminished in strength, quality, or utility; "impaired eyesight".

Hey my eyesight isn’t impaired I simply can’t see any thing !! :p Sorry Scuro I couldn’t resist! :rolleyes:


But I do believe you can be functionally impaired. That is, you can do all the things that a regular person does but have no where near the same quality of life.


Quality of life?? Not as happy as one could be, not as productive, what exactly determines quality of life and how would one go about determine a person present quality of life could be better ……………if said person is indeed functioning?

The above reads confusing to me and I wrote it but can not seem to restructure it to increase clarity!

I will use present partner as an example because he is such a good one…..he is a bouncy but* deluxe…..displays more hyper active traits than I ever did! He lives in the ADDult river of denial. He works for him self and is able to make as much money as he feels he needs…..makes more than most high school drop outs without schooling / training.........more than some who have schooling / training ...…he can go and come as he pleases…. He travels a lot…..(takes me with him some times)………….he pays bills, and is able to do all activities required in daily living.

He has arranged the environment to go around ADD traits….probably the classic example of “functional impairment” as you write it… in what could only be interpreted as a weak moment he finally admitted that even if I (and several of his family members) were correct and he did have ADHD he did not want to take pills every day he wasn’t interested in changing his brain chemistry he liked it just the way it was!

Could he function better?

Yes but who in the humanoid species doesn’t have room for improvements?

Does he perceive an “impairment”?

No ….

Do others?

Some yes some no

Not every one he meets. .his friends wouldn’t know him if he were any different!

Yes….
especially slow drivers who get in front of him when he is in a hurry ………. In reality who doesn’t have those quirks our spouses tend to affix labels to like “passive-aggressive” / “anal retentive” / “Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde” / “moody” / “scattered” / “dingy” ect….

Who decides weather or not Gary is impaired?.. Gary or his partner who must drive through an ever changing obstacle coa rse to get her car out of drive and onto public road! :eyebrow: :faint:


"impaired eyesight"

My sight required a -4 correction to bring it 20/20!

Obvious Impairment?

Driving a car with out corrective lenses….most defiantly!

Getting clothes off line at mid-night without outside lighting before storm arrives
Looking for flash light when lights go out
Not having to buy reading glasses as one passes over 40 line=shortened arms

No, it is an asset…….

Impairment Relative to situation…not according to how near sided I am (very)….not absolute impairment because it isn’t a handicap all situations! Can be an asset in some situations!


I can understand this because you work in a hospital

I can understand this because you work in a school! (your perspective)

Perception is also relative not absolute :soapbox:

Interesting discussion.

My ADD 8yo son doesn't have a problem with attitude.

He's super-sensitive and often latches on to the negative. He is especially likely to believe a negative assumption (such as getting hit in the head with a basketball at recess was not an accident, or his favorite toy was missing, so his brother must have lost it).

Other than those and being rather emotionally immature (but working on it), he's got a great attitude.

My son works his butt off at school and during his karate classes. He sometimes complains about homework, but often puts in a little bit of extra effort.

We made sure when he started medication that he did not attribute any of his successes to the meds. We also make sure that he doesn't use his disorder as an excuse or a crutch. His teacher is instrumental in this effort.

We continue to reinforce his behavior with praise for HIM, not his meds, and continue to punish him for behavior that isn't up to standards, even if we can explain it through his disorder.

At the same time, we consciously avoid putting him in situations where his disorder will cripple him. We do not ask him to do homework or other things that require focus when we know he doesn't have meds in his system. We also arrange his day so that he can maximize the benefits of his meds.

Keep in mind, though, that my son's ADD problems are almost entirely manifest in performance and focus; he has never been a behavior problem. He has trouble listening when he's unmedicated, but he tries like he**.
I really like this post. He sounds a good bit like our son. No behavior problems. Except for his Hyperactivity and lack of focus, he's actually a dream child. Straight A's in school. Very caring of others...etc.

I will use present partner as an example because he is such a good one…..he is a bouncy but* deluxe…..displays more hyper active traits than I ever did! He lives in the ADDult river of denial. He works for him self and is able to make as much money as he feels he needs…..makes more than most high school drop outs without schooling / training.........more than some who have schooling / training ...…he can go and come as he pleases…. He travels a lot…..(takes me with him some times)………….he pays bills, and is able to do all activities required in daily living.

He has arranged the environment to go around ADD traits….probably the classic example of “functional impairment” as you write it… in what could only be interpreted as a weak moment he finally admitted that even if I (and several of his family members) were correct and he did have ADHD he did not want to take pills every day he wasn’t interested in changing his brain chemistry he liked it just the way it was!

Could he function better?

Yes but who in the humanoid species doesn’t have room for improvements?

Does he perceive an “impairment”?

No ….

Do others?

Some yes some no

Not every one he meets. .his friends wouldn’t know him if he were any different!

Yes….
especially slow drivers who get in front of him when he is in a hurry ………. In reality who doesn’t have those quirks our spouses tend to affix labels to like “passive-aggressive” / “anal retentive” / “Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde” / “moody” / “scattered” / “dingy” ect….

Who decides weather or not Gary is impaired?.. Gary or his partner who must drive through an ever changing obstacle coa rse to get her car out of drive and onto public road! :eyebrow: :faint:

My sight required a -4 correction to bring it 20/20!

Obvious Impairment?

Driving a car with out corrective lenses….most defiantly!

Getting clothes off line at mid-night without outside lighting before storm arrives
Looking for flash light when lights go out
Not having to buy reading glasses as one passes over 40 line=shortened arms

No, it is an asset…….

Impairment Relative to situation…not according to how near sided I am (very)….not absolute impairment because it isn’t a handicap all situations! Can be an asset in some situations!


You can function well with an impairment, especially if the tasks that you do are geared towards your strengths and you pick a job where your impairments don't really matter. Why do so many ADHDers own an independent business? Because then they don't have to function socially within a group or they don't have to meet expectations on a timeline. Having accommodations can also help a great deal. For instance, someone in a wheelchair could become a great accountant. The person in the wheelchair may need accommodation in that they may need toileting twice a day. They couldn't do that job without the accommodation. You husband may be the same way. He has picked a job geared towards his strengths. I'm not sure if he needs accommodation but my guess is he may rely on a secretary or for someone to do his book work. That sort of help with the business would be an accommodation.

Now, can impairments sometimes be an asset? Sure, why not. The person with Depression may have great empathy skills...perhaps to great. The ADHD person may have boundless energy. But in both cases, when you consider the impairment in a wholistic manner, the impairment overall is not an asset, notwithstanding the few board members who think ADHD is a real ADDvantage.

The other thing that should be talked about here, is that ADHD impairs on so many different levels. It's not like eyesight where the problem is one dimensional. ADHD impairs all executive brain functions and meds don't restore them all back to baseline. So in closing, yes impairment is relative to the situation but ADHD is not a disorder caused by the environment. It is always there but sometimes it's like an iceberg, you don't see much of it.
--------------
--------------

Now back to regular programming. How do you change a kids attitude? Lets hook it up to what we just talked about. One major way of making sure that an ADHD kid sticks with the program, is to accommodate their needs.

Quote:
(Source: dictionary.com)

1. A believer in the principles of humanism.
2. One who is concerned with the interests and welfare of humans.

3.
a) A classical scholar.
b) A student of the liberal arts.

4. Humanist A Renaissance scholar devoted to Humanism.
Which definition are you using? :confused:
Sorry for the confusion; #1. In psychology, one of the schools of thought that was popular about 3 decades ago was that all people are born with the potential for only good. It is subjective experience and choices that make us evil.

Humanistic perspectives promote the idea that unconditional positive regard creates good people.

Oh, thank you! Usually people I know use definition #2, but that didn't make sense in context, and definition #1 quoted there is not too clear...

Now I understand what you were saying, thanks. :D

part of it is certainly the fact that it is often hard for the add kids to focus on, and therefore be motivated by, things which are not directly in front of them. but i think that there is often another issue involved in the lack of caring sometimes. sometimes kids who are bright and trying very hard, but who are continuously derided as being 'lazy,' and often punished or given so-called 'tough love' as a 'motivational' tactic, wind up getting discouraged. when the adults in their life are unable to see their effort, when they feel that punishments or rewards are arbitrary and unconnected to their level of effort, eventually they will just decide that if they're going to be punished no matter how hard they try, then there really isn't any reason to try hard at all. if they view the system as rigged, or arbitrary and capricious, or simply unfair, then they're going to stop caring.
What you just said.

(and parental pats on the back only go so far to compensate, since it's part of our job description..)

Oh, thank you! Usually people I know use definition #2, but that didn't make sense in context, and definition #1 quoted there is not too clear...

Now I understand what you were saying, thanks. :DYeah, I'd really rather just say "People S*ck", but something tells me that "I don't follow a humanistic perspective" just isn't as insulting to people! :D

If there is one thing that you often here from parents, it's that their kid's attitude sucks. They are not talking about the bad attitude that some ADHDers have although this is an issue for a number of ADHD kids. Rather, parents are talking about how these kids don't care, couldn't be bothered, and don't do much beyond meeting their immediate needs and wants.

The question I want to ask is, can the right attitude be taught to young ADHDers? Can a young ADHDers attitude be changed that way? Or could this be a developmental thing, where the young ADHD brain might not be typically ready to internalize and then act upon experience and knowledge until they are older. Or...could it even be that the skills needed to have the right attitude are at the heart of the impairment we call ADHD?


As a point of reference I'll use Steve Covey's 7 habits of highly effective teens.

Here are the seven chapter headings.

Habit 1: Be Proactive Take responsibility for your life.

Habit 2: Begin with the End in Mind Define your mission and goals in life.

Habit 3: Put First Things First Prioritize, and do the most important things first.

Habit 4: Think Win-Win Have an everyone-can-win attitude.

Habit 5: Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood Listen to people sincerely.

Habit 6: Synergize Work together to achieve more.

Habit 7: Sharpen the Saw Renew yourself regularly.
Great list.

My ADD 23 year old son did not return my three phone calls to his cell phone. Why?
"I didn't want to."

And he screams at me whenever I bring up ADD as a problem he should learn about.
Pure denial.

Any ideas?