We went to my son's psychiatrist today and agreed to try out meds. We've been trying the no-meds route for about a year. My son's main problem is being behind academically, and although we have made some progress, it hasn't been enough -- they wanted to hold him back in the 2nd grade this year.

We have received Ritalin, and we are supposed to give him 5 mg each morning and see if there are any side effects or improvements. If we do see improvements, that will go up to 5 mg twice a day, and then a maximum of 10 mg twice a day.

Our thinking is that if the meds give improvement, we'll use them until 3rd grade starts, and try going off again. I'm hoping this works out -- wish us luck!

If they're working...why would you be discontinuing them when the school year starts? I realize they haven't started yet, regardless. I realize it's a huge step for you and your wife to try medication with your son. I guess I'm not understanding why if something is working (if it does) you would stop using it when the need for more focus kicks in (schoolwork, etc).

:faint: ditto..you know how hard it was at school..you know ADD doesnt dissapear as an you get older...
you know next year he will still need the medication..I know he will still need it...
why do you intend to take it away next year???

If they're working...why would you be discontinuing them when the school year starts? I realize they haven't started yet, regardless. I realize it's a huge step for you and your wife to try medication with your son. I guess I'm not understanding why if something is working (if it does) you would stop using it when the need for more focus kicks in (schoolwork, etc). You've got a good point. We basically feel that if our son could get to an average level, he could keep up with the class without medications. It's getting to that level that has been very hard.

At any rate, not to get the cart before the horse -- we first need to try out the meds and see if they work.

I know it is such a hard decision to put you child on medication, it must be scary for you right now and I understand not wanting the medication to be long term. I'm 24 and my dad says the same thing.

That said, I also wonder why you would want to take him off meds. I always did well academically without meds (A's and B's), but it still affected me and my self-esteem because I "wasn't trying" and wondered how I would be able to do if I had been able to focus to do the reading and better quality work.

Average is good, but if he is capable of more with the level playing field the meds may give him, it would be such a great opportunity for him.

If he is 7 now, he is old enough to express how much he feels the meds help him. Maybe if they work, you can ask you son what he would like to do. You may need to help him remember what it is like with and without meds, but then you would know how he feels and how his self-esteem may be impacted.

Best of luck whatever your decision!

Hi Uminchu,

I'll be interested in hearing how it goes (it's a decision we're facing with out daughter who should be in third next year too). I hope things improve for your son academically. Keep us updated.

Take care,
Scattered

I know it is such a hard decision to put you child on medication, it must be scary for you right now and I understand not wanting the medication to be long term. I'm 24 and my dad says the same thing.It's true, I don't want the medication to be long term. Who would? :) I had been thinking that he might need to go on medications more toward middle school, when the workload got heavier. I had hoped he wouldn't need them now, but this whole retention thing convinced my wife and me that we need to try out medications now.

By the way, I had "the talk" with him over medications tonight. He doesn't think they're going to work. :rolleyes:

About the self esteem thing. I had some serious esteem problems myself, because I was always getting called lazy, and getting yelled at/punished, and I felt powerless to change. But with my son, I don't think self esteem will be as much of an issue, because we don't belittle him for his ADHD, and we try very hard to make sure his school doesn't either.

As for performing at an average level: while still in elementary school, I think average performance is fine. Personally, I don't think this is a time when test scores and such should play a big role in kids' education. Again, just my own opinion, but I'd much rather be teaching him rock climbing or kayaking than cracking the whip over reading Green Eggs and Ham. Then, I had a horrible time in elementary school; based on my experiences, survival is a fine goal. :)

As for performing at an average level: while still in elementary school, I think average performance is fine. Personally, I don't think this is a time when test scores and such should play a big role in kids' education. Again, just my own opinion, but I'd much rather be teaching him rock climbing or kayaking than cracking the whip over reading Green Eggs and Ham. Then, I had a horrible time in elementary school; based on my experiences, survival is a fine goal. :)I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression, I wasn't saying test scores are important and I think that in elementary school it should be more about having fun while learning and exposing them to new information. I don't agree with the pressure put on a lot of kids nowadays.

I was just getting a little ahead and thinking of high school and beyond...:o

I've decided to move to Japan and let you and your wife adopt me. LOL This way, I figure I can "do-over" my younger years and get the positive reinforcement I missed the first time around. You will both be okay with this, right? *gives best smile and tries not to look desperate*

I've decided to move to Japan and let you and your wife adopt me. LOL This way, I figure I can "do-over" my younger years and get the positive reinforcement I missed the first time around. You will both be okay with this, right? *gives best smile and tries not to look desperate*Depends -- do you do dishes? :D

Umnichu, you might be interested in some of Samuel Goldstein's books. I just took a CEU class on what of his books. He said that they haven't been able to show with research studies that meds alone (despite what seems like would be true) improve long term outcome (although they definately improve the short term). He said the things that help any child succeed -- stable loving family, developing empathy, etc help an ADD child succeed. He has a book out called Raising Resillant Children -- I've heard other author's refer to it and have it on my "gotta get" list. He seems very balanced in his approach from what I've seen. He's definatley not anti med but includes a lot more than that in building for success.

Scattered

I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression, I wasn't saying test scores are important and I think that in elementary school it should be more about having fun while learning and exposing them to new information. I don't agree with the pressure put on a lot of kids nowadays.
Hey, no problem. That test score rant was more about me than you. :)

My kid is smart, so yeah it would be nice if he could excel in school. But even before we knew about the ADHD thing, we weren't all that wound up about academic performance. He will start to shine when he is ready.

Umnichu, you might be interested in some of Samuel Goldstein's books. I just took a CEU class on what of his books. He said that they haven't been able to show with research studies that meds alone (despite what seems like would be true) improve long term outcome (although they definately improve the short term). Thanks a lot for the recommendation. I'll keep my eye out for it.

can we pretend I do?

can we pretend I do?Sorry, that's my job. :D

We gave our son his first dose of the medication this morning. My wife volunteered at the school today, and she says the change in him was amazing.

He was concentrating on his work, sitting still without fidgeting or getting distracted. He didn't rush through his work, and even his handwriting improved. She said he was also talking more slowly than normal. At recess, instead of hanging with the hellion boys and running around, he played with one of the quieter boys, sitting down and playing some game.

This is a huge change from the way he normally is. It's great to us that he is actually learning, but such a major change in personality is kind of scary. I am hoping this will level off after a few days, especially since he is only on a half dose of the medication (5 mg Rit).

wow, thats a positive change already...I hope it works out ok

Uminchu,

I'm so excited for you to have made such a leap. I know it's scary, but it's also hopeful & today is a demonstration of that.

I agree that average is just fine, even for children capable of much more. However, this is a time in school (my son is also 2nd grade going into 3rd) when memory is vital. This is also when ADD kids begin to slip behind and without treatment they usually can't get back to even average. I think they'd actually have an easier time trying to get off meds in later years.

I don't hold any real hopes that life without meds is possible, though. I see this very much as a chronic physiological problem not unlike a thyroid condition or diabetes. I wouldn't want to try to function without the help of meds; why would I make my child suffer through it?

Try not to think of these changes as personality changes. They really aren't, at least by the psychological definition (personality wouldn't change with medication). I think of the medication as the lifting of a fog that's been keeping my son's true personality from coming through. Now he's a happy, confident kid that has always been underneath & frustrated.

I thrilled that it's showing promise and I hope you consider allowing him to continue.

Try not to think of these changes as personality changes. They really aren't, at least by the psychological definition (personality wouldn't change with medication). I think of the medication as the lifting of a fog that's been keeping my son's true personality from coming through. Now he's a happy, confident kid that has always been underneath & frustrated.

I thrilled that it's showing promise and I hope you consider allowing him to continue.Oh, we're definitely going to continue.

You're right, of course. It's not that his personality changed, but I really didn't expect the changes to be this dramatic. I was thinking, maybe he'll pay attention a little better, but according to my wife, the change was pretty dramatic.

It does concern me, though, that even his choice of playmates and play activities would change. I had kind of naively assumed that the changes would be confined to the classroom.

Of course, he came home today and he was my little guy again. Straight to the gameboy and TV. While simultaneously holding a conversation with me in English and his grandparents in Japanese. :rolleyes:

But he also seemed happy about what he accomplished at school. He said the teacher told him she was proud of him. As far as I know, that's a first. :D

Alright, I shouldent be giving my opinion here because I am pretty mentally screwed myself, but read this anyway.

Ritalin has been shown in studies to shrink the brain. I was on that crap for a year of my life, and it was bad. Ask your son if he is experiencing any weird side effects like feeling cold all the time, sweating, or hating life.

After I was on the satanic ritalin for a year, being off of it was pretty great. I had energy again, I wasnt experiencing MAN shrinkage anymore, I was happier. In my own crazy, non-PHD opinion it is much better to have your kid take the pill a couple of times a week.

Thats what I did after I took a month break. I took it every couple days. It helps to see the difference in how you act, and how you think. Then your kid will start to concentrate more on his own without the meds.

But hey, if you dont like what I posted here, dont read it again. I am just another forum member sharing his 2cents. Have a great day

Ritalin has been shown in studies to shrink the brain.Which studies, please?

The psychiatrist actually told us to send him to school a day or two without meds, to give the teacher a better idea of any changes. She also said to give him a med holiday when there was no school.

Other physical effects of Ritalin include brain shrinkage, according to a 1986 report by Henry A. Nasrallah:

A team led by Henry A. Nasrallah (1986) from Ohio State found shrinkage of the brain more than 50% of twenty-four young adults with hyperactivity since childhood. Shrinkage—or the more technical term, atrophy—indicates that brain tissue has become withered and reduced in volume.[24] (http://www.tldm.org/news6/ritalin.htm#_ftn24)

Ritalin has also been proven to effect growth in children:

Dozens of studies have demonstrated that Ritalin disrupts the normal cycle of growth hormone production in the body. By the mid 1970s, the effect of Ritalin in disrupting growth hormone levels in most subjects was already “unequivocal.” The adverse effect on growth hormone is so regular and predictable that it can be used as a measure of whether or not the Ritalin is active in the child’s body.

Heres the link: http://www.tldm.org/news6/ritalin.htm

[24] (http://www.tldm.org/news6/ritalin.htm#_ftn24) Whew! (wipes brow) Breggin -- I thought you might have found a valid study showing this!

I'm sorry your own experience has not been very good, but I'm afraid that this kind of "research" is nothing but scare mongering.

We gave our son his first dose of the medication this morning. My wife volunteered at the school today, and she says the change in him was amazing.

He was concentrating on his work, sitting still without fidgeting or getting distracted. He didn't rush through his work, and even his handwriting improved. She said he was also talking more slowly than normal. At recess, instead of hanging with the hellion boys and running around, he played with one of the quieter boys, sitting down and playing some game.

This is a huge change from the way he normally is. It's great to us that he is actually learning, but such a major change in personality is kind of scary. I am hoping this will level off after a few days, especially since he is only on a half dose of the medication (5 mg Rit).
Wow! That is a huge change! And if such a low dose is going to work for him that is very good! I'm glad your family is feeling happy overall as well.:)

With the choice in friends, you described his regular friends as active and running around, and the new children today as quieter and more settled.

It would be interesting to hear which group is more like how he prefers to be. Is it possible he was hanging around the more active boys because that's how his mind was and he couldn't focus on the calmer games, which may have been his preference? Or, maybe he just wanted to give those games a try and didn't feel he could focus well enough before?

I hope the success continues!

Wow! That is a huge change! And if such a low dose is going to work for him that is very good! I'm glad your family is feeling happy overall as well.:)
Yes, we were very pleasantly surprised at how effective the medication was.

It would be interesting to hear which group is more like how he prefers to be. Is it possible he was hanging around the more active boys because that's how his mind was and he couldn't focus on the calmer games, which may have been his preference? Or, maybe he just wanted to give those games a try and didn't feel he could focus well enough before?
Well, he plays with both sets of boys, but the quiet ones he usually only plays with outside of school, at play dates. At school, he usually spends all his spare time running around, playing active games.

I hope the success continues!Thanks! I'm gaining hope that this will be very good for my son.

:) I am thrilled to pieces this is going so well for him, and for you/your wife. :)

I'm very happy for Umnichu!:D That's pretty amazing. I don't know why I should be so surprised though -- the first time I took Concerta my interactions with my husband and children changed immediately for the better.

And as far as that brain shrinkage stuff (thought of a worse word but didn't want you to have to edit my post!:p ). I was reading a study done over a period of several years (I'll look around to find it again if you like) that found that the white matter in kids on Ritalin normalized after the kids had been on it for several years instead of remaining at a lower volume like the untreated ADD group and was about the same as the non ADDers.
Scattered

You're right, of course. It's not that his personality changed, but I really didn't expect the changes to be this dramatic. I was thinking, maybe he'll pay attention a little better, but according to my wife, the change was pretty dramatic.

Yeah, teachers get to see these massive changes a lot from what I understand. But, then again, we didn't see much of an impairment in my son at home. We can see them now that we have some perspective; he can't concentrate in karate class w/o meds (he started karate about a month ago) and he's a bit sluggish during the day w/o them.



Of course, he came home today and he was my little guy again. Straight to the gameboy and TV. While simultaneously holding a conversation with me in English and his grandparents in Japanese. :rolleyes:

But he also seemed happy about what he accomplished at school. He said the teacher told him she was proud of him. As far as I know, that's a first. :DOh, I'm holding back tears! I love these stories!

She also said to give him a med holiday when there was no school.There are three major reasons for med holidays:

1) Why engage in risks without benefits? Unless he's helped by them, it makes sense to not take them. You wouldn't take asprin for no reason, right?

2) If there are any negative side effects such as weight loss or sleep problems, regular breaks can limit or even eliminate them.

3) Even though there is very little risk of physical depenence, there are adjustments that the body makes that can make the meds less effective over time. Giving breaks reduces this process.

Other physical effects of Ritalin include brain shrinkage....
Man, there's a whole world out there of reliable, verifiable, testable information.

It's almost like people want to believe this propoganda.

Originally Posted by 2Busy2Think
Other physical effects of Ritalin include brain shrinkage....
:rolleyes: :eyebrow: :eyebrow:


And you are quoting Breggin?
:eyebrow: :confused: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :faint:

2busy2think, time to do some thinking on this subject.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20721&highlight=breggin

Thanks for all the support, everyone.

This is the third day of medication, and I remain amazed.

I also have learned that I was a bit hasty in saying self esteem problems weren't an issue. Last night he told me that usually [a list of all his friends] are "smarter" than him, but today he was smarter than [a few boys].

What's kind of funny is that he does not associate this at all with the medications. The start of meds coincided with a book read-athon, and he has been reading a book every morning before school. He is convinced that reading the book made him "smart," and so he says he is going to read a book before school every day from now on. I asked him if he thought the medicine had something to do with it, and he rolled his eyes and said no, it didn't do anything. :rolleyes:

But getting back to the "smarter" comment. I could tell by the way he said it that he has had a pretty low opinion of himself until now. Before he would act like he didn't care, but this revealed that it was all a brave front. I suppose I should have noticed this earlier -- but I've got enough guilt without dwelling on that one as well.

The good news is, he really does seem to be doing well on the medication. You read about it a lot on these boards, but it really was incredible how a tiny little pill can make such a difference.

Thanks just soooooo great! I love happy stories! Your happy story encouraged me to work a little harder on my own project and I now have a Ritalin prescription for my daughter and permission to start it in a week and a half.:)

Keep us posted on how things continue to go -- much success and happiness to you and yours!

Scattered

Thanks just soooooo great! I love happy stories! Your happy story encouraged me to work a little harder on my own project and I now have a Ritalin prescription for my daughter and permission to start it in a week and a half.:)
That's awesome, Scattered! I hope to see your own story up here soon.

Wow. It is amazing how so many of us have second graders. Three of us are just starting meds and Barb started a few months ago. I guess second grade is the magic time to diagnose ADHD.

One thing looming in the distance is fourth grade. I hear that it is really demanding and difficult for the kids to adjust to it.

Wow. It is amazing how so many of us have second graders. Three of us are just starting meds and Barb started a few months ago. I guess second grade is the magic time to diagnose ADHD.Yeah, after bombing 1st grade we knew something was up... We tried without meds for about a year, and although there was progress it wasn't enough.

Wow. It is amazing how so many of us have second graders. Three of us are just starting meds and Barb started a few months ago. I guess second grade is the magic time to diagnose ADHD.It's when the work load starts to go from "enough to tell if they're getting it" to "volume is part of the grade".


One thing looming in the distance is fourth grade. I hear that it is really demanding and difficult for the kids to adjust to it.I've heard 3rd, but regardless I think it's better to catch it now!

It was the same here. We started to really see our sons ADHD show up in 1st grade. "We" always knew he had it, but only some aspects were really showing in kindergarten, where he was only there for 3 hours a day.
In second grade he started to struggle a lot.
In third grade (this year), it was simply to difficult, academically and behaviorally. We got his diagnosis this year, and started meds. He does so much better on medication in school. It's amazing really. Unfortunately we are having medication issues, and he is off them for the moment. He is miserable. He practically begs us every day to put him back on them because he says school is so hard without them. It breaks my heart:(

I'm glad your son is doing so well. It is such a heartwarming thing to see them so happy, and feeling really good about themselves. I love reading stories like yours. It brings so much hope, and confirmation that treatment does work when you find the right med.

Ladym,

Are you going to try other meds?

Now that the side effects seem to have completely worn off, we had made the decision to start giving our son a second dose of Ritalin (both 5 mg), and we decided to give him the second dose after school.

Holy moley! :D This stuff really works! It's one thing to see your son doing well at school, but at home it was truly dramatic.

Two days ago, after our son got home we gave him a dose of the medicine. He went off to his room, and after about 30 minutes we followed him in, expecting him to be goofing off. Instead we found him reading a book. :cool: Without knowing our son it might be hard to appreciate what a major thing that in itself was.

Until now, a 30-minute homework sheet bundle would be stretched out to 8:00pm or later in a whine-fest.

I said, "OK, let's get that homework done, OK?" Son rolls off bed and says "OK," and gets straight to work! Within about 2 hours he had finished all his homework and read three books.

I told him, "Great job! You have done really good today! Now you can do what you want. What do you want to do -- watch tv?"

My son answered, "No, I want to read some more." :faint::D

At that point, I literally had to fight back tears. It was like the little guy I had always known was in there was finally coming out. In the end, we stopped at 5 books that day. He is in a read-a-thon, and we figured his teacher would think something was funny if he read more in one day than the past week combined.

To top the day off, my son brought me a stress toy of mine that he had broken the other day. I had seen him do this, and hide it, but didn't say anything to him -- but I did talk about it with my wife, as more worrying evidence that he was tending toward lying/sneaking lately. Well, this day he brought me the toy and told me he broke it, and apologized! :cool:

In fact, he was the most agreeable, pleasant kid I have been around in a long time. This is how he used to be before all this ADHD stuff came out. I can tell that the past year has really ground him down -- I am optimistic that we can make a turnaround now.

That sounds wonderful! Your whole family must feel so proud! It's amazing how a pill can make such a difference!

That's so cool, Umnichu!:cool: The difference really can be amazing -- my daughter seems so much more mature on medication -- not just in her behavior but in the way she thinks about things. I went to a workshop today at ADDA with Tom Brown and an MD whose name is escaping me -- the safety record of these meds is really something. It reduces the chance of taking illegal drugs by half and reduces the chance of Sudden Unexpected Unexplained Death from a baseline of 1 - 2 per 100,000 to 0.6 per 100,000. They also explained how the guy that pulled the meds in Canada did so to promote Strattera as it was coming on the market. Their explanation and pictures of how stimulent medication normalize the brain's activity were really interesting too. Like you said, "This stuff really works!":D

Scattered

Glad to hear it was so effective for you. I too, will never forget my daughters expression after the first day of taking her meds. She was so calm and happy that she could do her homework, and she knew the meds made the difference.