Ok, so I'm off crystal meth for one year, which is great. I'm proud of myself. But I'm on 90 mg adderall a day and sometimes i even take more. Did I trade one addiction for another? If so, what's the point. I want to see if I can live life on life's terms. Without the use of drugs. BUt if I have ADD. and i was self-medicating, than what would be the point of going of the meds. I know when I do try to go down in dosage, I don't get the clarity and the focus i love about being on meds...but, again, maybe after some time that will change. It's so hard to figure this stuff out!

I too hate the idea of taking speed, but when I stop I end up needing it again to function especially when the work load is higher and I cant concenttrate and get overwhelmed

Self medicating...on Crystal Meth...what would be the point of going on meds???...you have got to be joking. It does sound like you have an addiction problem. I would bring this all up with your Dr.

crystal meth is speed....adderall is speed. Both are amphetimines. Desoxyn is methamphetamine. Perscribed for ADD. What's not to understand? I don't get the joke that you refer to.

I think it would be more accurate to say that they are both stimulants, there are differences beyond that.

I suspect that you were not ingesting your crystal meth so how can you compare the two stimulants if they had two totally different delivery systems? The outcome of taking both drugs over an extended period of time would be very different. That is where a little amazement on my part, came into the picture.

From a recent post of mine on the topic.

Snorting a stimulant over a short order of time will lead to addiction. As President Clinton would surely say about this topic, "it's the delivery system, stupid". Snorting puts the drug in your brain in fractions of a second and creates the high and crash of addiction. Try shooting alcohol straight into your neck and see if the delivery system doesn't totally change what that drug does. Glue sniffing also creates that rush. Ingest glue and no high.

Okay,

Methamphetamine and Adderall are in no way similar, besides being stimulants. It is like comparing a beer to moonshine. You can get the same effect of adderall with two to three 120 milligram pills of pseudoephedrine or Ma Huang (ephedra sinica capsules) if they still sold them. Pseudoephedrine is the cold medication used to make methamphetamine. If they were similar we wouldn't have been shutting down labs in the states, people would just take cold meds for the mild adderall high.

I've always said that methamphetamine is innocuous for six months to a year as a recreational drug, but over time pretty much everyone I've met in my fifteen years of stimulant use tends to spiral out and not make any sense. Also you have to worry about that entire illegal drug trade market.

I've been off mild Ma Huang stimulants for five years and I really miss the ability to get things done and focus. I just got health care again and I'm hoping I get an ADHD evaluation. I believe I was self medicating for years. However, meth is all over right now. Ask me if I want that crap, hell no. Three years in my early twenties was enough and I've seen the eventual devastation. Everyone starts out as a recreational user, few people stay in that category.

It is a shame that the FDA has become so uptight with stimulant prescriptions in this country that meth is an easier street alternative for young people. ADHD psycho therapy works, but with the collapse of the economy who has four years of evaluation for something that could be fixed with a simple low dose pill.

I suspect once again it is all about our countries current state of bottom feeding. Harder drug addicts, mean more money for incarceration and rehab programs.

What doctor would proscribe you adderall after you had been taking crystal meth?

Ok. Adderall is not speed. A pill doesn't fix or solve adhd regardless of your idea of self medication. A doctor eval is hugely important in adhd treatment and judging from the question you asked yourself you do sound like an addict.

First of all, congratulations for staying clean. That is HUGE! I wish there was a {{hugs}} icon on this board.

I'm a former cocaine addict, so I totally get where your fear is coming from. It's really had for someone who quit an illegal drug to switch to a legal drug that may have some similar "triggering" feelings. I have a friend who's a recovering heroin addict, and when he broke his leg he insisted that the ER set the bone without any pain killers, because he was so afraid of falling in love with that feeling again.

Talk to your doc about it, and your should really have a therapist to help you process your feelings about substance use and abuse. Just the fact that you are self aware and concerned that there may be an issue is the first step to making sure that you don't abuse your prescription.

Hang in there! :D

I understand where the person is coming from, the first time i felt normal in my whole life without insane amounts of caffiene was on crystal meth or cocaine and I vastly preferred the former...

I never told the doctor about this for fear of having it put in my chart and being labeled drug seeker, particularly with my profession this would be quite bad. Also my choice of drugs was not the most socially acceptable...people tend to look the other way at someone smoking a little pot once in a while but look down their nose at someone hiding in the bathroom with a piece of foil and a lighter.

Ritalin....helps me NOT want to abuse drugs. Thank you Ritalin for giving me my life back. You are a gift from God.

I let my hubby hold them til i knew i could be trusted. And I can!

The person may have a high tolerance to stimulants due to past drug use. (I don't though... I take 20 mg three times a day, sometimes only twice). Or they are trying to get a euphoria from it. You dont have to feel your meds for them to be working.

Okay,

Methamphetamine and Adderall are in no way similar, besides being stimulants. It is like comparing a beer to moonshine. You can get the same effect of adderall with two to three 120 milligram pills of pseudoephedrine or Ma Huang (ephedra sinica capsules) if they still sold them. Pseudoephedrine is the cold medication used to make methamphetamine. If they were similar we wouldn't have been shutting down labs in the states, people would just take cold meds for the mild adderall high.

I've always said that methamphetamine is innocuous for six months to a year as a recreational drug, but over time pretty much everyone I've met in my fifteen years of stimulant use tends to spiral out and not make any sense. Also you have to worry about that entire illegal drug trade market.

I've been off mild Ma Huang stimulants for five years and I really miss the ability to get things done and focus. I just got health care again and I'm hoping I get an ADHD evaluation. I believe I was self medicating for years. However, meth is all over right now. Ask me if I want that crap, hell no. Three years in my early twenties was enough and I've seen the eventual devastation. Everyone starts out as a recreational user, few people stay in that category.

It is a shame that the FDA has become so uptight with stimulant prescriptions in this country that meth is an easier street alternative for young people. ADHD psycho therapy works, but with the collapse of the economy who has four years of evaluation for something that could be fixed with a simple low dose pill.

I suspect once again it is all about our countries current state of bottom feeding. Harder drug addicts, mean more money for incarceration and rehab programs.

Oh, Portland.

Methamphetamine and Adderall are in no way similar, besides being stimulants. Pretty similar, actually. PERSCRIBED doses of Adderall are not similar to methamphedamine as the amount of total absorbed amphetamine is drastically smaller. While there is a lot of variance involved in the potency and way it's used with meth, a typical meth fix for a new-to-moderate user results in around the same amount of total amphetamine as a 80-100mg dose of Adderall. While Adderall's chemical composition is designed for theraputic use additional things have been included to aid in this, the 'main attraction' is still plain ol' amphetamine, which is the same story with meth. Of course, the method of use varies in both cases, different methods increase or decrease absorbtion, but it really isn't that far apart. I mean, they've actually taken meth and turned it into an obesity / ADHD medication with Desoxyn. Not exactly apple to oranges, here. What seperates meth from Adderall is that the amounts and potency is controlled with Adderall, you're not putting cleaning chemicals and acetone into your body and the "ride" is smoother - Meth is like getting shot out of a cannon, complete with impact, so users are more apt to continue use to avoid said impact, and the intensity is so acute that they become tolerant quickly and need to use more and more to reach it again. Adderall has some of these properties, but in recommended dosages, they are greatly minimized.

On the east coast, most rehabs aren't filled with opiate users, alcoholics and the cast of Trainspotting anymore. They are currently out-numbered by kids who can't stop putting things up their noses 3-1. In the ten-clinic group I have personal knowledge of in Boston, I'd say at least over half of the people staying over for cocaine or meth use cite Adderall or Ritalin as their first love.

I've always said that methamphetamine is innocuous for six months to a year as a recreational drug. It certainly feels that way, doesn't it? Unfortunately, that's mostly the euphoric beginings convincing you that you're not becoming completely addicted and your lack of tollerance allowing you to get good and spun off of 'safe' amounts. The trick of speed is that it makes you think everything is okay until, suddenly one day, nothing is. This day tends to happen while in jail or broke / withdrawing. Meth is addictive 100% of the time, from the first time it is used to the last time, -especially- injected. When you do something and it's the best feeling you've ever felt, you're probably going to do it again - And again, and again, and again, with diminishing returns and effects on your body and mind similar to being infected with that zombie virus from 28 Days Later. In terms of the physical and psychological addiction it causes, no other drug even begins to compare with the exception of maybe Heroin - It blows out your reward complex. Nothing feels good after you quit, and it stays like that. For years. Sometimes for life.

One thing I've found that is incredibly common in former meth / cocaine users (Let's say that I have a professional and personal interest in the subculture) is the evetual return to stimulant use via ADHD diagnosis. There is an additional reason that psychiatrists don't perscribe stimulants to former addicts, especially meth users - The aftermath of sustained meth use is basically artificial ADHD. It may have not rerouted your executive function system or saddled you a chronic chemical imbalance, but it -did- fry your receptors to the point where standard stimulus is no longer effective and you struggle for years. A rehabbing meth addict and someone with ADHD are virtually identifical in terms of complaints, symptomology, temperment and cognitive ability.

So I'm torn on if recovered meth and coke users should consider their 'drug years' as a period of self-medication and embrace an ADHD diagnosis. If your life before using showed an incredibly evident series of ADHD symptoms that weren't caused by circumstance, depression or general teenage angst, I'd say it may be worthwhile, but you have to realize that a quasirelapse using a different drug is still a relapse, and a very large percentage of formers 'come back' through pharmecutical stims. Why reopen the door if you finally managed to close it? Anyone will tell you that while heroin carries the heaviest physical addiction, methamphetamine carries the highest psychological one and it stays with you for a long time. If I were a former addict, I'd stay as far away from Adderall as possible.

Although I should probably mentioned that I didn't. ;)

The aftermath of sustained meth use is basically artificial ADHD. It may have not rerouted your executive function system or saddled you a chronic chemical imbalance, but it -did- fry your receptors to the point where standard stimulus is no longer effective and you struggle for years. A rehabbing meth addict and someone with ADHD are virtually identifical in terms of complaints, symptomology, temperment and cognitive ability.
If anything, that sounds to me like an argument for former meth addicts to take ADHD meds. What does it matter whether your ADHD symptoms are caused by genes or meth use? If people who have been meth addicts feel the way I do after quitting, then I say give them Adderall. I don't think anyone should have to live like this, I don't care how they got this way.

It sounds to me just like the idea behind methadone. Which I think is a very good idea, in fact, I've seen it work. It doesn't interfere with the person's life by giving them huge highs and lows, doesn't encourage illegal drug-seeking behaviors to pay for the addiction- like theft, it just ends up being a medication that the person takes like any other.

As long as the person isn't snorting or injecting the Adderall, what's the difference between them and any other person who needs a stim to function normally?

Actually yeah, adhd meds are sometimes prescribed like methadone. Taking more than the prescribed amount though? Bad news.

So it is true then, that ADHD medications can lower the risk of developing substance abuse, and NOT treating ADHD with meds can increase the risk? This is an argument my husband and I have often when discussing meds and our kids...both with diagnoses for ADHD...both adopted from parents with profound substance abuse histories.

So it is true then, that ADHD medications can lower the risk of developing substance abuse, and NOT treating ADHD with meds can increase the risk? This is an argument my husband and I have often when discussing meds and our kids...both with diagnoses for ADHD...both adopted from parents with profound substance abuse histories.

Yes, that's true. It's not a sure thing that they will abuse, but the risk is there. People with ADHD might be unhappy or frustrated and get in trouble... or simply make impulsive choices... which leads to smoking, drinking, drug use.... and depending on how they take it, the might feel like it helps them... For a while.

It's not a sure thing. I don't even like drinking. I wouldn't smoke in a million years. (I can't take the taste and smell, I'm a lightweight, and I have asthma.)

But I was trying all kinds of vitamins and supplements, eating continuously while studying, chewing gum 'til my jaw ached, taking otc sleeping pills, drinking gross calming herbal teas, and taking caffeine pills and energy drinks... all trying to get away from the symptoms and feel normal. It wasn't illegal and might not have hurt me, but a lot of it was a huge waste of time and money.

If anything, that sounds to me like an argument for former meth addicts to take ADHD meds. What does it matter whether your ADHD symptoms are caused by genes or meth use? If people who have been meth addicts feel the way I do after quitting, then I say give them Adderall. I don't think anyone should have to live like this, I don't care how they got this way.

It sounds to me just like the idea behind methadone. Which I think is a very good idea, in fact, I've seen it work. It doesn't interfere with the person's life by giving them huge highs and lows, doesn't encourage illegal drug-seeking behaviors to pay for the addiction- like theft, it just ends up being a medication that the person takes like any other.

As long as the person isn't snorting or injecting the Adderall, what's the difference between them and any other person who needs a stim to function normally?

The difference is that they were an addict. And by were, I mean are, myself included. You have a lifetime membership. If you've ever been controlled by a controlled substance, you retain the propensity to relapse and a high probability that you will. ADHD medications are incredibly easy to abuse and the slope is slippery, especially for those with a history.

ADHD medication acts as a adequate replacement for most conventional uppers. It also trades and sells well enough to be turned into anything else you might find yourself interested in obtaining. You not only give a former addict a new flavor, you give them keys to the whole ice cream shop. Regardless of intentions, length of sobriety, medical diagnosis or support network, it is a very tall order to ask someone who has had a problem in the past to moderate their own medication and avoid going back to old behaviors. Is the reward worth the risk?

Even getting the ADHD diagnosis and getting medication begins with dishonesty, which breaks the Know-All-End-All core of virtually every rehabilitation program and sobriety system. You have to tell them you used to be an addict, and that severely limits what most shrinks will be willing to give you. As compasionate as they may be, they're not going to risk losing their license on a hedged bet. And honestly, if you did hard drugs every day for a number of years, the soft stuff probably isn't going to work.

So what does a person who believes they have ADHD but is a former addict do? Good question. Our country really isn't set up very well in terms of supporting, rehabilitating and treating people with the disease of addiction. For one, most recoveries are flat broke by the time they wander into treatment, so that automatically disqualifies them from 98.9% of availible options. A number of them picked up an arrest or two thanks to this fantastic Drug War so they can't earn a decent living. Stay on something long enough and you'll find that your friends and family stop calling, so you really don't have anyone. So what does a person do with no psychiatric / psychological treatment or support, money, no job or professional prospects and nobody in their life who cares?

I'll give you three guesses but you'll probably only need one.



So it is true then, that ADHD medications can lower the risk of developing substance abuse, and NOT treating ADHD with meds can increase the risk? This is an argument my husband and I have often when discussing meds and our kids...both with diagnoses for ADHD...both adopted from parents with profound substance abuse histories.

Tricky. ADHD and addiction go hand in hand, we're easily drawn into any activity which provides large amounts of stimulation. Doctors and psychiatrists will argue that starting children out early on ADHD medication saves them from a potential life of unhappiness and drug abuse.. Which, if you think about it, really makes no sense. You take a child who is in the formative years of their life, tell them that they are flawed in a way they can't change themselves and give them a pill that is supposed to fix it. Not exactly a strong reinforcement of self-confidence, restraint and anti-drug sentiment. I know many, many, many, many, many, many people from Generation R (children born in the 1980s and grew up while Ritalin blanketed the nation and was pushed on kids by schools, doctors, etc) that ended up figuring out that it was fun to snort their medication and ended up with substance abuse problems later. I also know a lot of people here and elsewhere that had untreated ADHD and turned to drugs as a self-medication when they couldn't cope. I personally feel that nurture beats nature when it comes to addiction, and while you won't have 100% certainty that they won't use after having a supportive, loving, caring, healthy and structured upbringing, at least you'll know that they made the choice they did inspite of how you raised them rather than because of it.

Funny that you mention that, I think the first time I ever heard of Ritalin was sometime around '93, when one of my teachers told the class that she used to sell hers.

Actually she was a really good health teacher. Brutally honest about drugs and STDs. Scared the hell out of me. And gave me the highest mark of my life... 117% :D