View Full Version : Any runners out there?
janesays 05-23-06, 12:14 AM I've been running on and off over the years. I live in the northern climates and I don't know how to keep my shape over the cold season, that's why on and off.
I need a program so I can pace myself. I think that's my biggest mistake in life I run at thinks to hard to fast and burn out too soon.
So in a way running is great therapy, also nothing else gives me the same endorphin boost that running does. Endorphins are good for depression.
Going to the book store tommorow or maybe payday. I've spent too much time at the book store lately. I need to get a book that will start me on a program so I can structure the workout so I can run without feeling like I'm going to die. I remember being able to run for miles and nothing compares.
Does anyone know of a good book to start an endurance running program?
Is Runner's World a good editorial?
I try to run several times a week. I've always hated running because of my air. I found a gal that walks/runs too so we meet at 5:20am. We tend to push each other. Now I'm getting to love it. My husband uses a heart monitor and a pedometer - this helps him control just about every aspect of his run. I'm more of a free spirit.
He works at CSUN (cal state university, northridge, ca) and takes all kinds of classes. He's been taking some running classes, some for speed, some for endurance. He learned a lot, so taking a class really works. If you're close to a college bookstore, check out the books there. They might be a little more instructional.
I can't run in the sun - it really makes me too hot and I overheat.
I also have to drink a lot of water before I run, otherwise I fade out. BIG difference.
I also have to warm up by walking uphill for a half a mile or so first - sweating and huffing and puffing.
I started building endurance for running by going downhill at a controlled pace.
Then we added running on some flat stretches, and today we added some up hill running. That's a nightmare but we did it.
Once you're running, keep your upper body kinda motionless. When I get winded and can't go on, I slow down and kinda 'bounce' - like almost running in place. But sometimes I'm gasping way too much so I walk. When I started I'd walk a bunch, then run some, walk, run, walk, run. The second run is hardest. the last is best.
Some consistency is important - like 3 times a week. If one of us can't run, we walk.
On the weekends we, the family, hike up in the santa monica mountains. I've been running trails. Wow, is that fun. I've collapsed because of not enough electrolites or even water so we take camel packs with watered down gatorade. yuck.... My husband runs a lot faster than I do and if I try to keep up, my head starts pounding, my cheeks start pounding and I look like a thermal reactor of some sort. so he runs ahead and back and circles around me. But hey - I do what I can. And I'm losing the fat on my back! That's the best.
I used to run sprints when I was a kid. Short and fast. Like running bases - sure fire way to kill those ham strings. I'm starting to stretch before and after I run now too.
Once in a while we add a fast sprint just to change it up.
I ran a 5K a couple of weeks ago. I ran the entire first mile! and the rest was mixed, but I ran the majority of it. And I ran into the finish. 39 minutes for a 5K. Not bad for an old lady who only started running after 50.
I love weight training - getting strong. But it is an entirely different strength and an entirely different work out. This was easier to do in Chicago than here in southern california.
So check out a health club or the ymca, get a buddy, drink water, stop running and bounce or walk if you have to, use gravity. If you don't have hilly terrain, then I don't know. Bike.
I tried the heart monitor. It's a device you strap around your chest like a bra and a receiver thing on your wrist. If you pay attention to your heart rate, you can monitor yourself according to your heart rate. Way cool.
Chicky75 05-23-06, 11:33 AM Well, I'm not exactly a runner... I do the elliptical machine at the gym, which I think is fairly close to running (at least if I get one of the ones that has moving arms as well as steps). And it does give me the same endorphin rush that I've gotten running. I've tried running in the past and like you, never knew how to pace myself, though in my case I always just ended up with really bad shin splints that wouldn't go away no matter what I did. And the one time I actually found a walk to run program that would start me off *very* slowly, I ended up with piriformis syndrome, so I decided that I'm really just not built to be a runner...
But with that qualification, I did do a lot of research during the last time I tried to start running and I did really like all the information in Runner's World. Even better though, was the Runner's World website, which has a program for starting to run without overdoing it (I think there are a few different ones depending on your goal and fitness level) and forums with very friendly and helpful people (at least in the Beginner's forum, which is where I spent all of my time). I'm sure they could recommend some good books. I've also heard good things about the books by Hal Higdon, a famous running coach, but I've never read them...
Good luck with your running!
I've written about this many times, but it bears repeating. I've read that I'm in the top 5th percentile for runners over 40 that have not become injured in their first year of running.
The message boards are full of examples of the damage done to young and old alike.
The long wave length of the process of adaptation was what appealed to me about running. My brain adapts very quickly to the demands of running. My muscles take about six to eight weeks to adapt to the increased stresses. My semi hard tissues like tendons and ligaments take a few months and my bones take years to suck up the changes taking place.
So it's been a slow and steady process that's worked for me. I've also written here and elsewhere about how long it takes to establish a habit. Most people take 12 weeks to establish a habit. With that knowledge my focus was solely on making the date, not obsessing about the progress. I took 14 weeks to go from walking a half hour to running a half hour.
I was very deliberate about the process and knew I had a boat load of miles to log before I needed to pay the slightest bit of attention to the details. In the beginning I would increase my mileage by no more than 10% every week and I only advanced the mileage for three weeks. The fourth week I would go back a week to a reduced mileage to ensure all systems had a good chance to recover.
I never ever take this type of approach to anything! Patience and no impulsive decisions are not my style, but I really really really wanted to be able to run. My old running journal was full of grief from shin splints to colds and no end of grief from over training and it helped to be reminded of that.
I keep a careful journal and log weather, mileage, perceived effort as well as tracking how many miles are on my shoes. I ran 500 miles last year and my shoes were done by 400 miles. I'm easy on tread but hard on cushion.
So once I was running I set out a conservative schedule of heart rate training miles. I stuck with that for nine months before heading into a tough 8 week program to train for my first 10km. I missed that race from over training and missing the signals my body was screaming at me. I'd never done speed work before and the demands were surprisingly heavy.
Once I recovered from that I began to acquaint myself with speed work and spent a month trying on the various incarnations of that technique. I ran my first 5km race after that and was very happy to be competitive. Mostly it was just exceeding my own expectations that got the competitive juices flowing. :D
Then I bit off a half marathon training schedule and began once more to build my mileage and intensity. By last new years I was up to 20 miles a week as I was in July of 2005. Once again I crashed and burned with a combination of allergies and sickness. I just wasn't attending to the increases in sleep and nutrition enough to recover well enough between workouts and ended up faltering big time. It's taken me all of this spring to rebound from the mistakes. To be fair to myself, it wasn't all my doing. The environment conspired to make things more difficult with the warmest winter on record. Spores that should have remained dormant weren't and I suffered a much weakened immune system as a result.
This is all cause for celebration really. I've kept scrupulous record of the process so can learn from my mistakes and take heart from the things that have been beyond my control.
Three weeks have gone by now where I've put in three runs of 5km or more and last week I had one of those golden moments that come along every few weeks if I'm training smartly where everything came together and I once again felt like superman. :D I ran a quick four miles instead of my three just because I felt so dang good!
There are a number of good plans on the web to follow, but they all need to be tempered with the ability to listen to ones body carefully. I was hopeless at it in the beginning, but there are signs of improvement. We are all an experiment of one.
What distance do you want to train for?
http://www.halhigdon.com/
Here's an amazing story in support of heart rate training. Link seems to be broken so I hope it works later, it's a great little story.
http://www.duathlon.com/articles/1460
This is a site full of wise runners.
http://www.runningmania.com/forum/
From runningmania.com:
Training Programs
Here are some great links to other running websites where you can get training programs and information about training theory.
While there is no one perfect training program, these sites should give you a starting point to design a program for yourself. (note: most of these programs list distances in miles. To convert to kilometers, simply multiply by 1.6)
Jeff Galloway (http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/index.html) has a variety of programs for beginners to advanced marathoners. These are great programs for people who want to run 3-4 times/week and incorporate cross-training into their running program. There is a 5K training program which starts with running 10-15 minutes at a time. His half-marathon programs and marathon program incorporate walk breaks; Galloway was one of the pioneers in using walk-breaks to help average runners improve running endurance. His marathon programs include beginner programs and time-goal programs for advanced marathoners. The advanced marathon programs have you building to long runs which exceed the marathon distance (including walk breaks), a somewhat controversial training practice.
Hal Higdon (http://www.halhigdon.com/) also has programs ranging from beginner to advanced marathon. His website has something for everyone. His beginner 5K programs start at a slightly higher level than Jeff Galloway's, but can be adjusted down and lengthened if necessary. There are a variety of programs at each distance; for example there is a "beginner" half-marathon program which reaches 10 miles (16K) as the maximum distance, as well as an "advanced" half-marathon program which reaches 15 miles (24K) as the maximum distance. His advanced distance programs generally incorporate 5-6 running days and high mileage. He also includes marathon programs for seniors, as well as "Boston Bound" program designed to train for the Boston Marathon. None of his marathon programs include long runs that exceed 20 miles (32K).
John Stanton's Running Room training programs are not fully available on-line (you have to buy "Running Start to Finish" by John Stanton, or join a Running Room clinic). However, the general layout of the programs is available on these links:
10K Program (http://www.runningroom.com/content/?id=334)
Half-marathon program (http://www.runningroom.com/content/?id=335)
Full-marathon program (http://www.runningroom.com/content/?id=336)
Runner's World Magazine website (http://www.runnersworld.com/) is another good source of training programs. This site links to various articles which describe different training programs, ranging from 5K to advanced marathon.
Race Goal Times and Training Paces
For all of the above programs, if you are training for a distance race (10K or higher) you will need to decide on a goal time and training paces, especially for your long runs. Here are some links that will help you do this:
runningforfitness.org (http://www.runningforfitness.org/) will allow you to predict a race goal from shorter race times. It also has great calculators for pace calculations and conversions, calorie burning, and heart rate training.
The MacMillan calculator (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm) will help you determine what paces are best for different types of runs.
Advanced Marathon Programs
Additionally, here are some links to advanced marathon training programs:
Advanced Base Building Program (http://www.runningmania.com/resources/programs/adv-basebuilding.php) (by Jacob Sears)
Pete Pfitzinger’s program (http://www.runningtimes.com/issues/01julaug/marathon.htm) (Pete Pfitzinger is an Olympic marathoner and author of “Advanced Marathoning”; his program is a high mileage, high intensity program)
The Hansen program (http://www.runningtimes.com/issues/05mar/hansons.htm) (a high-mileage program which has no single run greater than 16 miles, or 26K)
The FIRST program (http://www.runnersworld.com/article/printer_friendly/0,5046,s6-51-0-0-8257,00.html) (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training) program. This is a low mileage, high intensity, 3-day/week program.
Heart Rate Training
For those who are interested in the theory behind heart rate training and how to use it to improve your running, here are some good links. In general, this type of training is done when not training for a specific time goal, but to improve overall aerobic fitness and running speed.
Mark Allen on Heart Rate Training (http://www.duathlon.com/articles/1460)
Want speed? Slow down! (http://www.rrca.org/publicat/slowdown.html) (by Dr. Philip Maffetone)
Hadd on Distance Training (http://www.ffh.us/cn/hadd.htm)
Thanks, Ian. Lots of good info.
That's what happens when I leave my dex behind. :D
No problemo
janesays 05-31-06, 11:32 PM Thanks for all the info. I got a book with a beginners running program in it. I don't move forward with my workouts until they are easy. Maybe I need to push it a little more. I remember getting in shape used to hurt. I guess time will tell.
That's bunk Janesays! Do you want to do this as a lifestyle change or just until you burn out and or get hurt? You are one of the wise ones. Pushing hard is the mistake that gets made way way too often.
If you are really fit, you can push hard a couple of times a week, but most of the work should be done at an aerobic pace. That's dead easy. A quick test is to carry on a conversation. If you can't talk easily, then you are working "anaerobically" and that's a whole different ball game.
As I understand it I really benefit from keeping the majority of my workouts at a very low and aerobic pace. If I'm working out five times a week like I do when I'm gearing up for an event, I'll only have one day a week where I'm pushed. If I can recover from that three weeks in a row and still continue to adapt to increasing mileage, I'll consider introducing another day of intensity of some sort.
The key to it all is in the recovery. I think the generally accepted rule of thumb is that no more than 10% of your weekly mileage should be of a high intensity. There are many ways of mixing it all up though. I'm just really conservative when it comes to this. I see the bigger picture and I have no interest in quitting or being injured.
I track my lowest heart rate regularly at the same time of day. Many people do it right when they become aware in the morning, but before even moving a muscle. If I'm recovered my pulse will indicate it by being lower than normal. If I'm stressed from whatever, I'll register a pulse rate above what is normal and I should then take a day or two off.
If on the other hand my pulse is down five beats per minute, I can be pretty sure that a painfully hard workout will evoke the training response and I'll become stronger. Of course that is if I can get rested from it again.
Without some means of testing ones progress it's tough to say whether one is simply going through the motions or whether one is actually doing something beneficial, so the resting pulse is very handy to avoid over doing it.
I used to very frequently make the mistake of thinking I wasn't doing something worth doing when working out if I wasn't heavily toasted at the end of it. That was a huge mistake and wrong thinking. It might work for some, but the vast majority find progress so much more available if they slow down and lighten up. On the slow days I usually come back refreshed and as high as a kite.
It was suggested to me that I should come back from those workouts feeling like I could turn around and do it all over again and that I could do it every day of my life, although I wouldn't recommend that.
Rest is where I gain. I stress the system in cycles trying to recover well in between. I never run two hard workouts back to back. I'm also respectful of the days where I'm feeling wiped out. I'll gain as much on those days and I'm betting more, than if I would have run being tired.
It's a happy thing. I have to feel like doing it. It's play, fun and should be making me happy. If it's a chore or yet another monkey on my back I simply will lose interest or become sick and or injured. I want to be happy. I've spent too much of my life miserable at my own hand. This is one way I can take the best of my abilities and for one of the first times in my life turn them on myself, because I'm worth looking after.
I put in 5km today. I was really slow. Yesterday I could hardly keep my eyes open. I was in bed and asleep shortly after ten and with a break at 5am I slept again trough 9:30! Whoa, I must have needed some down time.
Fight! Ian
I grew up in N. Iowa and after going all over the place ended up in Minnesota like you. I spent about $1,400 in all on a nice treadmill for the winter. Not only is it good to run when it's cold outside it's also nice if you just feel like running in boxers and undies a short while after getting up. It's great running outside if you have a golfcourse you can run on and it's 62F outside but that's not always available. I used to run 5 miles/day when I was younger. Now that I'm in my early 30s with kids I have to force myself to run but when I do I am always glad I did. Running is not for everyone but it's pretty easy to get into and you're right, never ever hit it too hard. Always take your time because it's not worth an injury no matter how slight. Note: To give you an idea... I used to run the 800m in about 1:57 tops and the 5K in about 17:00 on good days. Now I totally take my time and do low inclines, rolling hills, and I back off and stretch out shin splints if I get them. No more speedy running for me. To run hard you have to work up to it, period. I run 10:00 miles now, 2 of them for 20:00. WAY easier lol.
Solid infor DRM, thanks. I especially like the part about taking your time. :D
Ian
ricksan 07-20-06, 11:26 AM I'm a runner. Started almost 7 yrs ago and made the typical mistakes, cheap shoes, did too much too soon, and got hurt. After recovering from injury, I started back very slowly, just walking, and eventually adding very short running segments to my walks. Thirty seconds of running, became 1 minute. One minute became two minutes, and so on. Since then, I have run 10 marathons and 1 50-mile trail race. I have started participating in sprint triathlons and this fall I am running a 40-mile trail race on my 40th birthday. Anybody can run, it just takes persistence. You have to start from where you are, not where you wish you were. Search online for beginner's programs, there are many very good ones out there. Buy a good pair of running shoes, preferably get fitted at a specialty running store. Good shoes are not cheap but that's really the only gear you need. I run by myself during the week and it is great time to think, ponder, reflect, create. I really need and enjoy the solo runs, but I also run with a group. Try to find a running club in your area. Don't be bashful, runners are mostly firendly and encouraging. I found an incredible group and my running buds are some of my closest friends. Hope this helps.
Rick
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