My little girl is 8 years old and she was diagnosed with ADHD and insomnia at age 5.As she is getting older more seems to be going on.She is VERY busy at times but her moods change very easy.For a example:this morning before school she stated that noone loves her and that is for sure not the case,she is very loved.I know a lot of us go through this but this is new for her.I am being told by a new doctor that he believes it is more manic or bi polor then ADHD,if anyone has any helpful info i would highly appreciate it.I am very worried and do not know waht to do at this point.I do show her a lot of love as she is my baby girl but do not know what to do.When she went on the kick this am about noone loving her i just reasured her that we all do lvoe her dealry and the sad thing is it came from no where,she was not in any trouble or anything as i know i used to do that when i was in trouble but she was taking a shower at the time when she just started crying and stated that to me.

Well it's surely possible. There are so many symptoms of ADHD and early onset bipolar that overlap that it can be very difficult to tell them apart. Many ADHD children also have co-morbid disorders, most commonly anxiety and depression, that with the ADHD can mimic Bipolar. Bipolar also tends to have AD/HD as a co-morbid disorder of it.

My son is pretty moody and his ped-doctor also thought he had Bipolar, although we did not, and his psychiatrist does not either. We are treating his moods though with a medication that is generally used to treat Bipolar. He can not handle stimulants at this point without becoming very moody (also common with bipolar), so we are getting his moods under control first and then adding back in his ADHD meds.

Anyway, it's really hard to say, but worth considering. It could be both, could be ADHD with co-morbids, could just be Bipolar. If you aren't comfortable with this doctors opinion, get a second one, and a third if you need to.

Good luck!

I would definately want a second opinion on that diagnosis since the medication for bipolar have more side effects some of which can be quite serious (though not as serious as untreated bipolar disorder). Emotional flux is very common with ADHD but tends to be more driven by events -- bipolar is much more intense and may be quite independent of events. Depression is also very common in ADHD kids (about 30% or so have it). Depression can easily come out looking like someone feels nobody loves them.

Because emotions aren't listed in the DSM-IV diagnositic manual not all doctors are as aware of the roles they are increasingly being found to play in normal ADHD. Thomas Brown in Attention Deficit Disorder: The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults has a very good discussion of how one of the executive functions impaired by ADHD is emotional regulation.

It is difficult to tell ADHD and childhood Bipolar apart at times, so a very skilled clinician is needed. My bias is toward a clinical psychologist who is very familiar with working with ADHD and Bipolar issues -- they usually have more time to devote to getting to the right diagnosis. They can then send their diagnositic findings on to a medical doctor or psychiatrist for medication management.

Is there a family history of Bipolar? How intense are the mood swings? Have there been manic or hypomanic episodes (these are needed for it to be bipolar and not just depression)? Bipolar disorder usually has a much more intense presentation than what is found with ADHD with pressured speech, flights of ideas, etc. Hallowell and Ratey in Delivered from Distraction says that while an ADDers run away talk may irritate you, a bipolar's pressured speech will blow you away.

At the ADDA conference I attended on ADHD and Comorbid Conditions, they discusses this. I don't remember the exact statistics but bipolar disorder while it does occur in children is not that common.

I hope you find answers that are helpful to your daughter.

Scattered

Thank you two very much for your input,much appreciated.
She is on Concerta 54 mg at 7 am and Serequol 25 mg and 0.3 mg clonidine for sleep.We tried to take her off of everything except for the serequol 25 mg at bedtime and she flipped right out on the 2nd day at school,like the sound of drums made her really upset,her teacher stated she was VERY off track and VERY bothered all day with just the sereqoul.Her mood swings arent really bad but enough to really notice.She has even went through stages where she didnt even want to go anywhere,she wanted to trap herself inside and didnt even want to go outside and play or anything.That went on for about 6 months and now she is back to wanting to go outside and play.She also has sometimes where she is wound up like a 25 day clock and then others she is calm down.She can be all happy one minute and then she will start crying real tears and then happy all of that within just minutes.
Thank you all very much for your help.

Forgot to mention that yes,her dads mother was manic before she passed away,my little girl was not much a part of her life but yes it was in the family on her dads side.

They thought this was the case with me. I was being treated (not diagnosed) for ADD with Stimulants, when it became apparent that there were other symptoms involved. The doctos immediately removed me from the stims and put me on lithium.

Bipolar disorder and ADD have a 1-way comorbidity, as I understand it. If you're bipolar your chances of having ADD are greater (someone can correct me on this if you like, I'm sure I may have misquoted).

So it could VERY WELL be both, as is my case. I know I was certainly displaying bipolar characteristics when I was that young. My mother used to tell me that when I was young I could be the sweetest boy on earth, or a major pain in the ***.

Either way, what your daughter needs is help, and above all some understanding and support. I don't care how old you are, feeling alone will ruin you emotionally.

I am an adult with pediatric onset bipolar disorder that is "secondary" to ADHD Hyperactive/Impulsive type and it sounds a lot like me at that age... and the research indicates that if a child has bipolar symptoms before puberty than there is usually ADHD (85-95% I think it was) or vice versa... my grandmother was "cyclothymic" which is mild bipolar from what i assume and my father had severe hyperactivity and impulsiveness and was described to me as "only able to calm down by using Cocaine" (i've never met him...thank goodness) and I am on a stimulant/anticonvulsant combination and it works better than either alone.

I just saw this comparison-list on MSN this morning. I don't know how accurate it is, but it may give you some idea what to look for in telling whether your daughter has BiPolar or AD/HD - or both. http://health.msn.com/centers/bipolar/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100078936

Have you looked into the differences between BiPolar 1 and BiPolar 2?

Also, both BiPolar and AD/HD are sometimes cormorbid with Depression, which could account for her starting to cry while in the shower. She may have been remembering something stressful or hurtful that happened to her and was flooded with feelings.

I have looked at all the info you all have helped me with and i thank you very much.This is very hard as a few things point towards bi polor and a few towards ADHD.VERY concerned about my little girl.I have had manyyyyyyyyyyyyy opinions on her and noone has made me feeling very good about this situation so it looks as if i gotta keep going with this as i will, i refuse to give up this is my little girl and i am very concerned about her.Any more help from you all is gratefully appreciated.

Like Mspen said if she has bipolar she probably has ADHD too -- when a child is diagnosed with bipolar the chance of having both are extremely high. Having a grandmother with bipolar definately puts her in a higher risk category. It would still be a good idea in my opinion to get a second opinion from a specialist not connected to the first doctor. If she does turn out to have bipolar she can still have a happy productive live, so don't despair. It will just have more hill and valleys than most. You might want to take a look at Kay Jameson's book called, "An Unquiet Mind". She is a professor at John Hopkins specializing in the treatment of bipolar and has writen her life story as a women who has suffered with bipolar disorder since her teenage years.

For what it's worth, my daughter does many of the same emotional things you describe. I was also prone to depression and anxiety as a kid and being off the wall at other time. To date (and I'm in my mid 40's), neither of us has been diagnosed as anything other than hyperactive emotional ADDers.

Take care,
Scattered

I am going to get right on this tomm morning.I have been on it dont get me wrong but we just made a major move from michigan to oregon so i got to locate some specialist and go from there.Is anyone from oregon here and knows of some good specialist or suggestions on where to look even?Thankl you all so very much for ur support and advice.

My little girl is 8 years old and she was diagnosed with ADHD and insomnia at age 5.As she is getting older more seems to be going on.She is VERY busy at times but her moods change very easy.For a example:this morning before school she stated that noone loves her and that is for sure not the case,she is very loved.I know a lot of us go through this but this is new for her.I am being told by a new doctor that he believes it is more manic or bi polor then ADHD,if anyone has any helpful info i would highly appreciate it.I am very worried and do not know waht to do at this point.I do show her a lot of love as she is my baby girl but do not know what to do.When she went on the kick this am about noone loving her i just reasured her that we all do lvoe her dealry and the sad thing is it came from no where,she was not in any trouble or anything as i know i used to do that when i was in trouble but she was taking a shower at the time when she just started crying and stated that to me.
This type of ADHD has six or more symptoms listed in the DSM-IV for Psychiatric disorders in both hyperactivity and inattention. This is the most severe type of ADHD, and it is the most difficult to treat.

In the category of hyperactivity/impulsivity, an individual must have six or more of the following symptoms: often fidgets while sitting, often leaves seat in structure setting, often runs around inappropriately (restlessness), often has trouble playing quietly, often talks excessively, often blurts out answers before question completed, often has difficulty waiting turn and often interrupts or intrudes on others.

Some of these symptoms must have present before the age of seven, and they must have lasted for at least six months.

In the category of inattention, an individual must have six or more of the following symptoms: often makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work and other activities, often has difficulty keeping attention sustained in task or play activities, often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly, often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities, often avoids and dislikes tasks that require sustained mental effort, often loses things that are necessary for everyday life, often is easily distracted by extraneous stimuli and often is forgetful in daily activities.


Some of these symptoms must have been present before the age of seven, and they must have lasted at least six months.
The combined type of ADHD is actually the most common among ADHD sufferers. They are also the individuals most at risk for other negative problems in their lives due to the nature of the disorder. First of all, children with Combined Type ADHD have higher rates of conduct disorder (Conduct Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder). Also, they have higher rates of bipolar disorder. As a while, children and adults with combined type area at a higher risk for other psychiatric disorders.

Parents who have a child with this type must be extremely vigilant in the care of their children. They really must constantly be on the lookout for problems in other arenas of their lives besides specific symptoms of ADHD. As a side note, speaking to a medical professional from the outset can minimize any chance that your child will experience difficulties in their lives. Just keep in mind that problems in the emotional, psychological and social domains are a result of a response to having ADHD, and not the disorder itself.


As your child with Combined Type ADHD reaches their teenage years and into young adulthood, they will be at a higher risk for many things such as illegal drug use, general illegal activities, overdrinking and other activities of concern. Raising your child will involve more dedication and vigilance in all areas.

Combined type is what they diagnosed her with at age 5 and they still say that but her new doctor thinks she also has some bipolor trates.

Combined type is what they diagnosed her with at age 5 and they still say that but her new doctor thinks she also has some bipolor trates.It sounds like you've got a competent doctor for your daughter!

Bipolar disorder is highly comorbid with ADHD and doesn't have to be unmanageable. If your daughter's doctor decides it is indeed bipolar disorder, she'll probably take a mood stabilizer along with the stimulants she takes for ADHD. If depression becomes a serious problem, an antidepressant could be added.

The good news is that the medications developed in the last 30 years or so have been fairly successful with few side effects.

Good luck!

It sounds like you've got a competent doctor for your daughter!

Bipolar disorder is highly comorbid with ADHD and doesn't have to be unmanageable. If your daughter's doctor decides it is indeed bipolar disorder, she'll probably take a mood stabilizer along with the stimulants she takes for ADHD. If depression becomes a serious problem, an antidepressant could be added.

The good news is that the medications developed in the last 30 years or so have been fairly successful with few side effects.

Good luck!
Yup :)