Ok my six year old boy
ADD innattentive
not yet on meds

will not defend himself.
NOTat school where his "friend"/ bully kicks him when he's on the ground. (AND he doesn't tell the teacher).

NOT even when his 2 year old sister hits him. He won't defend himself (and he won't tell me.) Last incident (5 minutes ago) involved his sister hitting him with a fork repeatedly in the face and I find out about it when I hear him sobbing upstairs that he is sad.

Contrarily he WILL come tell me when his siter is in the kitchen throwing rice on the floor and he will tell the teacher when a kid iis doing something else unallowed.

Is this familiar to anyone? Is it the ADD?

We've done a bit of role-playing on the bully front and he does enjoy that but as we just started, I not sure if he's actually applying it. I can see it helps him anyway to talk about it. I wil start role-playing the sister thing and I will do more role-playing in general.

We will probably start him on stimulants just before school starts in September.

Any chance the meds will improve the social side of things as well?

thanks for any and all reports ideas.

Monkeyche

Hmmm it could be. I have certainly seen my own child fail to defend herself before medication. Seems she got all tangled up in the "why" of what was happening and drifted off with her thoughts instead of fighting back or reporting the offense. On the flip, she was highly intolerant of what might be termed "necessary" offenses. Those she could focus on quite well, again with the endless need to know "why?".

HTH!

I don't know if it's ADD or not. My ADHD 8 year old daughter had a boy forceably French kiss her after she said no and she was in a room only eight feet away from her parents -- but didn't know what to do at the time. I think sometimes stress closes down ADDers response system. I'm also ADHD and when I was about 6 a bigger boy in the hallway at school force me to do sexual touching and I didn't scream for help or know what to do though the nearest classroom was only feet away. So who knows, since many ADDers are stress intolerant maybe an overload makes them less likely to respond to defend themselves or get help.


Scattered

Is he possibly so in the clouds that he doesn't really notice it? And by the time he notices he's just confused?

That is my sense now that I've talked about it.

OK no I think It's what scattered said. I was just hoping beyond hope that he was daydreaming so not really feeling it. Pathetic huh? He's the most sensitive person I know.

He does shut down with stress. When he was 4 1/2 a friends daughter (not quite two) bit him in the back seat of the car. My friend and I were talking away in the front she was driving and he interupts to show me his hand teethmarks red swollen the whole mouth! He seemed so calm it was bizarre.

This seems a bit dangerous. I remeber his teacher when he was three telling me he was concerned that Milo would get taken advantage of (by other kids) and wouldn't tell him. What did you do for your daughter and did it work? Role playing Role playing? You thing meds will help?

Thanks for Everything. This is so important what you guys have created here. Especially for the KIDS.

Monkeyche

Sorry this is weird. I guess my Husband just registered last night (for a little living with me support maybe) and he left himself logged in and I posted under his user name. This is From Monkeyche

You know the last incident you shared had almost a mild autistic feel to it -- it reminds me of something I read recently in Shadow Syndromes: The Mild Forms of Major Mental Disorders that Sabatage Us by John Ratey and Catherine Johnson.

"Perhaps most shockingly in a small child -- in a person of any age, for that matter -- autistic children seem to possess no natural instinct for self-defense. Parents tell heart wrenching stories of running to the aid of their sobbing autistic child only to find him standing passively with big tears rolling down his cheeks as another child pulls his hair or twists his arm. The autistic child does not fight back." (p. 216)Children who can talk and have only mild symptoms are now said to have Aspergers Syndrome. I'm not saying this is what is going on with your son -- only an on the site professional can make that determination, but the story you told reminded me of what I had read. You might want to do some research on your own and discuss it with your doctor or psychologist. Sensory integration issues are also common which I believe you mentioned in another thread. I'll share more, if you're interested.

Take care,

Scattered

This is bringing back a lot of memories. I've got inattentive ADD as well and suffered severe bullying growing up.

I used to shut down completely under stress. Knowing what I do about ADD now, I'd say it was a major factor. Check out a book called Healing ADD by Dr. Daniel Amen. He found that under certain stressful situations, the bloodflow stops to certain parts of the ADDers brain. Figuring that out explained a lot in my case.

If someone would pick on me I'd completely freeze up, which made me even more of a target. Same thing with calling me names, I'd rarely respond back.

What added to it was the teachers wouldn't get involved in helping me out. I was also the skinny little runt of the class so it was like open season on a regular basis. They also would come at me in groups too, rarely one on one.

The meds might make a difference in his response, as well as his social ability.

Thankyou so much everyone!

Scattered thanks for bringing up the Autism/Aspergers thing it's alot of people's guess. It's already been ruled out. His current teacher is fresh from Special ed school where she taught autistics and kids on the spectrum. She says it's definately not that. Also not aspergers.

And thanks for the earlier reply. We roleplay every night now. It's a good thing. I hope the meds help this area too. I think you and Crackerjack are right on about the stress thing.

Did the meds help you crackerjack or did you not take them until you were an adult. Anything else you guys can tell me about personnel experiences and if you think there was long term impact, let me know. Also if you can remeber maybe when it stopped on it's own as I'm assuming like me you were medicated as an adult.

I'm sorry this happens to people. This I will stop to the best of my ability.

Monkeyche

feel free to use the personal message system or whatever. I have no idea as to the etiquette of this but I'm fine with it. This is my first forum exoerience anywhere. And I'm three days old.

I really don't think lack of self-defense is related to ADD at all, escept possibly as part of difficulty w/ stressful situations.

However, stimulant ADD meds could very well help nonetheless. Because of their dopamine and adrenaline-boosting effects, they typically cause increased feelings of confidence and stimulate the part of the brain responsible for inducing a "fight or flight" reaction.

Of course, those feelings are entirely chemically-induced, and dissipate as soon as the medication wears off. Using drugs to create an artificial sense of confidence is how people become addicts. However if the meds help his ADD symptoms while also helping him stand up to a bully and defend himself, *that* would provide a real, long-lasting boost to his self-esteem, while also encouraging bullies to leave him alone.

mounkyche beeter to do something about it now or he get wroc thats could get worc i was and iam still like him but you see it dont go anywere still inside and it bulidsss up an up untill you blow soooo id look into helping him to he,p himself in many diff ways role play helps but there other ways as well ask him why hes like that an what makes him do the things he doseee an dose he wont to chagen?? i hope tyou get what your asking 4 dorm

Yup. Sounds like he needs some SKILLS training, so he can make the best of any potentially bullying situation. Goodness knows we ADDers encounter those Monsters enuf.

To shut down, or FREEZE [with the paralysis of terror] certainly happens, when kids are scared. I see that it is a Third Reaction (in addition to "Fight and Flight").

This Survival Tactic (like Playing Dead) is often challenged by observers/judges/society to make the smaller/weaker Victim accountable in court cases, where there are more capable/stronger/intelligent/older Attackers.

As though not "saying no", or failing to fight, is a form of passive consent to assault.

It would be great to find a Behavioural Therapist (etc) who can help teach your kid some defensive skills, physical, verbal and intervention-wise.

Of course, those feelings are entirely chemically-induced, and dissipate as soon as the medication wears off. Using drugs to create an artificial sense of confidence is how people become addicts. I'm going to disagree with you here -- the confidence is not chemically induced. The confidence is based on better functioning and thinking. When the reuptake of dopamine in the synaptic gap is normalized braining imaging scans have shown that the ADDers brain operates similar to a non ADDer utilizing more efficient pathways for making decisions. Also with their brain doing a better job of screening both the internal and external extraneous "noise" (distractions, incoming sensory input, feelings, thoughts, etc.), the ADDer feels less bombarded, less thin skinned, and more in control.

People become addicts according to my psychologist when their brain is receiving more stimulent than it can utilize. In an ADDer who is correctly medicated the stimulent is used to address the dopamine shortage in the synpatic gap and there isn't a lot of extra rushing around the system creating euphoria or a false sense of confidence. For example, in some countries in Europe heroin in used to manage extreme pain and there is not the addiction problem there would be if you or I used it, because their body is able to utilize it without all the excess. My therapist explained this better than I can, but maybe you get the drift of it anyway.

Research has shown that ADDers using stimulent medication in their teens are half as likely to abuse drugs as non medicated ADDers resembling non ADDers likelyhood of misusing drugs. In fact, many drug and alcohol users with concurrent ADD have difficulty quitting until they start medication.:soapbox:

Okay, this kind of termed into a speech :rolleyes: -- sorry -- I guess I feel passionately about this subject.

I do agree with you that I think it would make it less likely that he would be bullied because he would be projecting himself differently and also would be more aware of social cues than indicate a potential problem.

Scattered

I was quiet when I was bullied, although I can't reacall it happening a lot...I wish I could have stood up for myself too...good luck with your Son

Scattered, I'll concede that I was wrong to say that the feelings of confidence are *entirely* chemically-induced. However I definitely do not agree that such feelings are based solely upon better functioning and thinking. It's very well-known that increased dopamine levels induce a heightened level of confidence and wellbeing. It's why I said that depending on a dopamine reuptake inhibitor for feelings of confidence leads to addictive behavior-- I've known quite a few people who became cocaine addicts for that very reason.

However, I think we can both agree that someone who most likely has low dopamine levels--as evidenced by an ADD diagnosis and an unwillingness to stand up for himself--could benefit by using stimulants as a tool to temporarily boost his self-confidence (and dopamine) to a more normal level. And his improved (albeit drug-induced) ability to handle confrontational situations would pay dividends in his *real* confidence/self-esteem. That's the point I was trying to make in my earlier post. :)

Scattered thanks for bringing up the Autism/Aspergers thing it's alot of people's guess. It's already been ruled out. His current teacher is fresh from Special ed school where she taught autistics and kids on the spectrum. She says it's definately not that. Also not aspergers.

Have you gotten your son evaluated by a specialist for any co-morbid conditions within the austistic spectrum or are you going off the teacher's opinion?

I have found that although teachers have had many exeperiences with many types of children and have very well had direct experience with specific populations, they do not have the clinical training needed to make a diagnosis. The austistic spectrum is especially broad, and only a clinically trined specialist can rule out the possbility of a disorder or syndrome.

My son's 1st grade teacher told me that she has had a lot of gifted students and that if my son was gifted he'd be getting his work done and on at least the same level as the brightest kids in the class. Well, his IQ tests well within the superior range and his academic testing show him above grade level, even though he rarely did anything in class but punch holes in his assignments with his pencil. He also tested into the district's gifted and talented education program. She also said she has had many ADHD kids and my son just doesn't fit into that pattern. All observations and ratings so far have indicated all the typical ADHD behaviors. All of thse tests and evaluations were done through the school psychologists and he is now in the process of being evaluated for a difinitive diagnosis by a child psychologist who specializes in attention disorders.

If your son is doing something that is a-typical for his age and it worries you, ask to have him evaluated by the school psychologist or take him to a mental health professional.