I go to a karate class on Wednesday nights and there is this older woman there who thinks that she can bully me. Before I'd even had cause to speak to hert, she'd been glaring at me in class for several months. A few weeks ago, she was in my way and I politely said excuse me, and promply got my head bitten off. My response was something to the effect of not being threated by her so don't try it. Last week I had to speak to her regarding the relocation of the signing in sheet. Later she came and had a go at me for being rude (which I wasn't - she just doesn't like being told). I said nothing and turned away.

I've been in situations like this before and I have never known how to deal with it. It's usually an older woman thinking that they can treat me like dirt and be mean and horrible and even if I'm polite I still get my head bitten off. If I'm rude I get told not to speak to them that way regardless of how they have been treating me. It's kind of like they think that they can treat me like I'm less than human but as soon as I do anything back or stand up for myself I get the, "How dare you" garbage. I'm so sick of being treated like crap by people who want to get off on picking on others.

The only idea I had is to pair up with her in sparring and get her a good one in the nose.

I think men and women get very different treatment in some situations, and I'm afraid this may be one where my direct experience doesn't apply much.

the martial arts way?

what is the best way to win a fight?

#1 run away
#2 talk them out of it
#3 make them want to quit
#4 make them unable to continue

This is a crappy situation, sorry to hear about you being in it...

Unfortunately, there is no way to control this other person's behaviour short of getting the martial arts teacher to control them, which is probably not practical.

All you can control is your own reaction to her.

If you can find it in you not to care, that would probably be the best... but that's not always an easy thing to do.

Intentionally bopping her on the nose in sparring might feel good, and I'll admit its the sort of thing that would tempt me, but it's also the sort of thing that could get you kicked out of your class if your teacher is anything like the ones I am familiar with...

Another thing that may not be easy: approach her directly. Ask her if you offended her somewhere in your past, and if so, what can you do to make up for it... honey catches more flies than vinegar sort of deal.

I wouldn't hold it against you if you couldn't do this, though. It would rankle in my throat to approach a bully like this. Only my outside perspective lets me see this as a possible solution.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

The only idea I had is to pair up with her in sparring and get her a good one in the nose.

This sounds about right.

What do you suppose will happen if you punch every bully who bullies you?

#1: They will respect you for standing up for yourself.

#2: The powers that be will punish you for being violent... you will get the consequence you wished upon your bully.

#3: Your bully might beat you up.

#4: Assuming you beat your bully up, there is nothing to stop them from feeling vindictive and coming back with a baseball bat or a few friends.

Violence begets violence, Penultimate. You sound to me like you are bitter about some past experiences in life and not too worried about who you take that out on.

You know Paul, you are so right.

1) don't care and avoid the problem situations
2) direct and concilliatory approach (requires lots of real guts, vulnerability, and courage (you can't control the outcome in this situation anyway, but it feels more so in this action!))

Appeal to higher authority is always better than taking things inot ones own physical or even political power hands. It is called leverage, and if you go through societies mechanisms instead of being self reliant and self sufficent, you gain society's protection socially instead of earning societies wrath!

Good Advice!

PS. The direct approach really works. But you have to be completely ready for it NOT to work before hand. It really seems to matter!

I think the bully just has one big case of envy. I say this because I had a friend who at times would snap at innocent people, one thing was that she was sick and tired being over looked by guys because she was big (She weighed near 400) and instead of being upset with the men or questioning her weight, she lashed out at any woman who flirted with friends of ours who were male. It was because the college police stepped in and arrested her that she got her head on straight. Later she told me she never even thought what she was doing was wrong, not till she looked at it from another point of view. She was so embarrased by her behavior.

My suggestion: Tell your karate teacher or someone you trust in your class and ask that they watch her behavor. The more people on your side will help you in a long run.

Violence begets violence, Penultimate.

Fear begets violence, my friend. If you show the bully you are not afraid you don’t have to fight. If you fear him or retaliation, he wins and continues to bully. A show of strength is the ONLY way to stop a bully. Note I said a SHOW of strength, not beating the hell out of someone.

Sparing is allowed and won't get her in trouble.

I agree with a lot of what you said but I disagree with your denial of my points...

And if you're going to one up her in sparring... beware. AGAIN, you still run the exact same risks as above...

Play within the rules strictly, or the teacher may come down on you, or the other person may want revenge on you as well...

I don't think we disagree on too much here. I would advise playing within the rules as well.

I'm kind of like the assistant teacher to the two Sensei's (one is my Hubby) and I didn't think any of his ideas to deal with her were particularly good. I hate confrontation and my mental state at the moment is simply not stable enough to cope even if I 'win'. What I want is for her to go away and leave me alone.

What I have asked Hubby to do is stay within earshot on Wednesday so if she starts being nasty, he can deal with her and kick her out of the class if need be.

She's belted me before in sparring so I owe her one anyway. I think that she thinks I'm an easy target because I'm young looking (28 but look like I'm about 18) and small (5ft 1). I'll just have to do it 'within the rules' if you know what I mean.

I'm confused as to whether violence breeds violence

or if

Bully's are cowards and a good punch in the nose stops them.

In my experience, neither one has worked and I can see that there are two conflicting viewpoints here. Can you give examples of situations where your approach has worked so I can get an idea of the context?

Oddly enough, in my own experience the opposite position to what I am advising has been true.

I only ever fought back against a bully once in my life... in grade 2. In front of a crowd, he punched me in the stomach. The crowd were egging me on to hit him back, and I didn't, then one of them said "He's not gonna hit him back. He's too chicken." So I punched him - gave him a bleeding nose. He never bothered me again.

Do I feel good that I punched him? No. Did it work? Yes. Did I suffer any consequences? If so, I don't remember them...

So my experience would seem to contradict what I would choose to do in the situation...

Of course... that was grade 2. We're all adults now.

Originally posted by waywardclam

Of course... that was grade 2. We're all adults now.

Maybe 2nd graders know best

In my experience bullies are a very insecure lot. When insulted in grade school I would reply that I had heard that one already and that they needed to work on new material to impress me or I would look at them blankly with no response and let their words hang in mid-air. In high school I was asked by another girl if I was so and so and when I replied that I was, she went on to tell me that I was quite ugly. Not batting an eyelash I told her that I was aware of it and was considering my options and did she have any suggestions for me. She was taken aback and never came within three feet of my after that.
As an adult when folks get nasty I smile and say I am sorry you feel that way and walk away. Bopping your antagonist would be fun, but it only escalates the war and she will be ready to retaliate. Bullies are disarmed by no reaction which equals no payoff so they move on to others. Hope that helps.