I'm sorry if this is oversight But I can't find a forum for add inattentive?

Do I post to general talk?

There's got to be a separate forum at least for the innatentive-kids no?


Also is there a hair brained theory forum?

You know for the hair brain theories! Related to ADD of course. Maybe even with anonymous posting options for the hairier theories?

Sorry I'm new and the search box is giving me Zeros like more than 50 percent of the time


Thanks much

Monkeyche

me 35 add innatentive
medicated/diagnosed at 20 years old
Ritalin

son 6 year add inattebntive
unmedicated

We don't have separate forums for ADHD subtypes, though we do have a parenting section. So yes, post in General ADD talk. :)

I think both of these are great ideas. Especially since there are so many forums already, what's 2 more? As it is, I perk up whenever I see threads on inattentive, so it'd be cool if there was a place for them.

As for hair-brained theories, I've got plenty of them. Speaking of which, do any of you feel like you have a vast reservior of potential locked away, and that you'd become unstoppable if only you could find the key? Not like, "I'd be much more successful if only I could get my crap together." I mean like, "This world and its inherent limits are only illusions, and if I could train my mind to see past that, I would break free from it's constraints." I know it sounds Matrix-y, but I've been thinking this since way before the movie - for as long as I can remember.

I honestly prefer that there be no division of subtypes in the forums myself. I get great advice and good info from so many people here!

Plus if there are too many forums I might get lost :eek: and I would hate that!

It was very exciting to read your post Clay. I am predominately inattentive and I told my doc, in less matrix-y terms..."I feel like I have this great brain if only I could access it"...then I love to bust my husband's chops and tell him, "Imagine what a freakin' genius I'd be if I didn't have this ADD?"...But quite frankly I mean it...Now if I can only find that key I keep losing!

... for as long as I can remember ... Me too.
... lost ...Me too.

...:-)... lost, for as long as I can remember ...:-)... SB.

Incidentally, the 'white rabbit' and 'tabla rasa' were principal principled themes in both the 'Matrix' and 'Lost'.

The term is 'freakin' ADDer-freakin' genius', I believe ..:-)... and the -key- thing or the -spectacles- thing or the 'where was I ...?...' thing and even the 'ermmm ... who am I ...?... ...again...???...' thing, are all inextricably linked with the 'G' word.
No, no, no ..:-)... the 'g' word which rhymes with 'abstemious'.

Monkey --- are you based in Grenoble?

I have this nagging feeling that I'm forgetting my best ideas!

I know certainly I've forgotten at least one great invention. I remember where I was when I thought of it and where I was when I realised I'd forgotten it (and forgotten to write it down).

I think Hair Brained theories are what ADD is about. It's the best of my brain. The problem is what to do with my hair brained ideas. I'm kinda afraid to post them.

I think the uninterested should be spared my hairy brain.

Monkeyche

I sympathise with getting lost in the forums. I get lost in the forums. But inattentives are SO underdiagnosed.

OK -How about just an addition to the parents diagnostic forum?


I'm sure everyones heard about the movement to separate the diagnosis. And that would be a shame because they are the same thing.

But they have Different Diagnostic Criteria.

Inattentives have alot more memory issues I think. That's something we could get a better sense of if there was a diagnostic subgroup.

AND misdiagnosis of Kids is probably a different problem, To the untrained eye these kids can look like high-functioning autism, aspergers, or most commonly-nothing at all ("he's just shy and he thinks to much").


My kid is intellectually hyperactive. I know this applies to ADHD as well, but these kids often don't have the addition of disruptive motor flags for diagnosis.

My kid does have motor stuff. Innatentive motor stuff. Nobody notices.

He's got it bad. Thoughts just flow like water from his head. And he usually can't even talk about them before they are gone. And he is getting his ***** kicked all over the play ground and he can't manage to get out the word stop much less defend himself. He can't even cry until they actually do stop. I posted on this subject and almost all or perhaps all of my responses were from inattentives relating there own childhood experiences. only half or less were parents. Yet where else do I post? If I post in general talk they would just move me to parents.


Maybe they'll find some kind of motor inhibitory mechanism in place for inattentives that worsens under stress. You know like the other Dopamine disease that freezes people up: Parkinsons disease. These nonattentive kids often show physical lethargy and the worse the stress the worse the lethargy I'm guessing. School is stressful. kids can become physically lethargic. And Hyperfocus confuses everything and makes it really hard to identify these guys.

Think about how many depressed couch potatos out there might be low functioning ADD innattentives. And then they just can't take the frustration and the looks of disappointment in the eyes of the ones who love them and know how smart they are and have seen them at their best. But it's the self critique that really destroys them. If they get the right doctor- they might just get the help they need. If they get the wrong doctor this looks alot like bi-polar disorder in adults. I'll let you imagine your own worst-case scenario.


If we had only caught them when they were kids.

I think these guys get deceived. Not easily but when it happens loyalty, the excitement of someone who seems to understandand you and out-side-of-the-group tendancies, can lay them open for some of the most virulent manipulators out there. Or just well intentioned people who they've come to trust who are just tragically wrong about their diagnosis. And they are easily confused when under pressure by someone to do something they don't want to do. It's like we don't have the persistence to fight off people we've come to trust who obviously seem to care about us.

If we had only caught them when they were kids.

I know this applies to ADHD as well but you guys get noticed, in the critical 6-12 year old range.

Sorry about the length. I would post this to both parents diagnostic innatentive and hairy brain forums. I would post maybe a greatly abridged version to general talk, if at all. And if I did post an abridged version to General Talk you might not see it anyway. My last one got bumped to parent diagnostic.

Most of the best replies were from adder non-parents or adder parents describing their OWN experiences as kids. But if you don't read parenting-diagnostic...

OK i'll stop writing now.

If you made it through to the end of this post-Thanks for listening! This resource is invaluable.

Monkeyche

I think the uninterested should be spared my hairy brain.monkeyche(?veuxcerveau?) ...:-)...

they are the same thingAbsolutely. The profoundly ridiculous and relentless drive to label aspects of mind with as many TLAs (as the alphabet and basic rules of combination permutation allows) ... is the direct basis to Rutherford's statement that ... 'all science is either physics or stamp collecting' ...
... Are you close to CERN ...:-)... ?

My kid does have motor stuff. Innatentive motor stuff. Nobody notices.That's a real key observation, and one which is helping us up to the next level in understanding ADD. Increased physical activity and brain activity (thought) accomplish the same goal for the ADDer brain --- overclocking the mind in an inattentive daydream, or overclocking the body in physical endeavour --- 'no problem ...:-)... ... markedly different from the outsider ->->->- looking in, ADD specialists scratching their heads, but from the inside ->->->- looking out ... not so different, maybe we'll find.
Here's another, neither 'motor'-cognitive, nor 'motor'-physical ... but 'motor'-motor activity too ... a little too fast on a motorbike which is itself, a little too fast ... very pleasant ... ... ... indeed.
To be clear, one can understand the last of those three observations relating to the ADDer, if one sees how the last is a composite of the former two.

He's got it bad.I think that may have been why I flew into the gym at around 11 or 12 years of age ... and continue to this day; although perhaps of little immediate assistance ... as he grows and tames his ADD, I know that these problems will lessen. ADD is ... (continuing atop of the biker theme) ... ... ... a Ducati Monster as your training vehicle ... after selling out of (soon to scale down production in) the 'normal' choice (CG-125(cc)) ...:-)...

Maybe they'll find some ... No, they're ostensibly the same 'in here'.

These nonattentive kids often show ...Though there may be a little more inertia - imagine how the inattentive-ADDer might enjoy physical activity and thought simultaneously. That's two helpings of chocolate ice-cream.
[[...:-)...the mysterious multi-contrarily-headed nature of ADD...:-)... though not really.]]]
So ... motor-'cognitive' and motor-'physical' processes ... simultaneously.
ADDer heaven ... and perhaps there's just a little or is that a mighty slice of these combined activities in the ADDer spelt with a capital H.
For the inattentive, it's just a case of experiencing the benefits for oneself, first-hand ... *without* anybody sceaming at us to do *it* differently ... incidentally, it's better, at first and maybe beyond, to engage in solo sporting activities. Team sports are fun, but don't accomplish the exact same goals to the ADDer --- of course the same goals outside ... on the body, but inside one's hair bear bunch hairy not-airy brain, where ADD resides, inside our mind ... the constant conscious intervention which team sport requires (pretty much all team sports, at least at first, and some beyond) ... ... ... constant conscious intervention throws a spanner in the precision clockwork mechanism which the ADDer mind is driven to keep in motion.

So ... a post running gently offeredtangerines to your main questions, but I hope of some worth, regardless.

[b]SB.

Yes. I guess he is my key. It's been my nickname for him since he was an infant. since he was an infant. Yes, CERN. In the pays de gex. GOOD guess.

Thanks for the benefits of I type. That's comforting. And it's how i remember my childhood. But I wasn't getting my *** kicked all over the playgroung and I was able to perform in kindergarten. He looks at his notebook of unfinished work and he says "But I want to do it". And sometimes we'll finish an assignment at or two at home. But mostly the motivatin passes so fast and he's off in his head again and off on his feet again. Like a bird. We've got a really big house.

Monkeyche

I don't think that a separate forum is necessary, or even a good idea. Most ADDers are combined type, or at least have some symptoms from both the inattentive spectrum and the hyperactive-impulsive spectrum. Unlike some people, I do not believe that inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive strains of ADD are different disorders. My personal opinion is that what we're seeing is a much deeper disfunction that often presents inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive symptoms differently in different people. Sort of like how two people might get the same flu bug, but one person gets the runny nose and fever, while the other gets the aches, cough, and upset stomache. The inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive diagnoses are more related, in my opinion, to the outward symptoms displayed, but these symptoms share common root causes in the brain.

In fact, I would not be surprised if further discoveries with regards to autism show it to be our sister-syndrome, as both are childhood-onset neurodevelopmental disorders with regressive and progressive tendencies at different times. Of course, there are very different outward symptoms, and there are also almost certainly very different root causes, but I do see some very interesting similarities: "stimming" vs "fidgeting," for instance, as well as the tendency to experience sensory overload and "innerspace." (Of course, the possiility also exists that my aspie-ish tendencies are skewing my little sample n=1 study here).

I don't think that a separate forum is necessary, or even a good idea. Most ADDers are combined type, or at least have some symptoms from both the inattentive spectrum and the hyperactive-impulsive spectrum. Unlike some people, I do not believe that inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive strains of ADD are different disorders. My personal opinion is that what we're seeing is a much deeper disfunction that often presents inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive symptoms differently in different people. Sort of like how two people might get the same flu bug, but one person gets the runny nose and fever, while the other gets the aches, cough, and upset stomache. The inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive diagnoses are more related, in my opinion, to the outward symptoms displayed, but these symptoms share common root causes in the brain.
Oh thank you Hyperion! That was so eloquent :) and I totally agree!

Certainly so, though I'd push it just a small stage further.
[[[Complete agreement with you on autism ... and 'Theory of Mind' helps us to understand why. Prof Simon Baron Cohen, Centre for Autism Research, Cambridge is a great guy and strong advocate of ToM - a place to begin looking, should more information be sought by any]]].

Relative to diseases of the periphery, I'm pretty sure that we'll find that diseases of the mind overlap to a far greater extent. This is strongly evidenced by the extent of co-morbidity between mental disorders. The comparison isn't simple for multiple reasons, including number of conditions in these two sets, but these issues aside, following suitable correction, and considering only the more prevalent of conditions, I'm pretty sure that we'll see that this basic statement will hold.
The significance of this observation (although not the sole potential reason for its occurrence) l believe, we will see, is that the closeness of disorders and the few but very significant differences between each taken in turn relative to one another, will be sufficient for us to generate a high-level model for the normal mind (each higher level construct instantiated by *actual* lower level mechanisms). ADD and autism supply a good many of the necessary parts to build this conceptual framework for mind.

A point which I haven't seen made out here on the forum is whether the pain we feel through certain mental conditions, is borne through a physiological process gone awol ... or just plain working as it should ... ... ... kind of like an alarm which gets stronger the longer it goes unheeded. There's a perspective shift which is kinda' like diving into a usually toasty warm swimming pool ... only to find out that it's been chilled down to just above freezing ... on point of contact ... ... ... ... ... ... a dramatic perspective shift if we were to look upon straight up anxiety and depression under this light. Imagine someone kicking your leg. Sure it'd be nice to switch off nervous sensation in the leg ... ***no pain*** ... though none of us would ever choose to voluntarily lose this facility. To some major extent, isn't there a question mark over whether alleviating straight-up anxiety or depression through medication, is akin to the guy who chooses to have an all-over one-time-only neuroshave.

SB.

I honestly prefer that there be no division of subtypes in the forums myself. I get great advice and good info from so many people here!

Agreed besides inattentives tend to over think things and the decision to post or not to post and well lets just say posting response speeds and participation is greatly helped by the combined and impulsives-lol! I like the great grand mix thing myself. There are several members here who have not been formally diagnosis one way or another where would they go? Most are combines types.

Another not yet mentioned thing a ma gig is as us impulsives get older and loose some of out “go juice” we gain a few inattentive traits not experienced until the late 30ish mark. I also notice when my Adderall first wears off I have more inattentive traits than I do my normal impulsive one. It isn’t until my medication has completely worn of for several hours that I begin to get the bounces back. My medication doesn’t really stop the wiggles either it just allow me to foreground and back ground. When it first wears off I got to wiggle or I will go into some sort of stupor. .




you'd become unstoppable if only you could find the key?

I have the key just can’t remember where I put the thing!





I think the uninterested should be spared my hairy brain.


Post away. Man no one is forced to read your hairy brain. If the title is descriptive and this one was then it is how did that person in another thread put it so eloquently

“Read at your own risk” Yea that was it!

However write at your own risk as polite disagreement is allowed also.





Inattentives have alot more memory issues I think[quote]

Long term memory yes but apparently even impulsive ADDers have “working memories” problems. As an impulsive who has shown up for work on the wrong days I am forced to agree!




[quote]
Yet where else do I post? If I post in general talk they would just move me to parents.

As a mover of threads from time to time I go by the over all subject yes if it is more of a parenting issue the thread gets moved to the parenting area. A lot of people are not sure where to post especially when they are fairly new (okay this can be confusing when one has been here awhile to)

If the subject would be better addressed else where yes staff does move it but we don’t think bad thoughts about the person. We also leave a re-direct in the original place you put your post so others who come say here looking for it can easily be re-directed to your threads new home. You would also receive notification as the where your thread is I personally always include a hyperlink in the notification letter as it make finding your thread so much easier.





I know this applies to ADHD as well but you guys get noticed, in the critical 6-12 year old range.


Getting noticed isn’t always a good thing either. Getting noticed doesn’t always lead to diagnosis or help some time it simply leads to physical abuse and mean comments. We suffer more ridicule from parents teachers, and we have a harder time staying out of trouble because we are noticed.

No ones brand of “suffering” here is any better or any worse just different! I even think struggles differ from person to person even if even with in the confines of the “sub-sets”. In other wards I have met other impulsive who have different problems than I do but my actually share this problem with some one who is combined ADD!





That's a real key observation, and one which is helping us up to the next level in understanding ADD. Increased physical activity and brain activity (thought) accomplish the same goal for the ADDer brain --- overclocking the mind in an inattentive daydream, or overclocking the body in physical endeavour --- 'no problem ...:-)... ... markedly different from the outsider ->->->- looking in, ADD specialists scratching their heads, but from the inside ->->->- looking out ... not so different, maybe we'll find.
Here's another, neither 'motor'-cognitive, nor 'motor'-physical ... but 'motor'-motor activity too ... a little too fast on a motorbike which is itself, a little too fast ... very pleasant ... ... ... indeed.
To be clear, one can understand the last of those three observations relating to the ADDer, if one sees how the last is a composite of the former two.


What he said here! SB always makes explanations so much more fun!



Sort of like how two people might get the same flu bug, but one person gets the runny nose and fever, while the other gets the aches, cough, and upset stomache. The inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive diagnoses are more related, in my opinion, to the outward symptoms displayed, but these symptoms share common root causes in the brain.

Agreed! Also a good way of putting it!

Hair brain theories? Um.... Well see, it's like this. Garden Gnomes are evil. EVIL I TELL YA! They steal underwear and intend to use said underwear in their diabolical plans for world domination and subjegation of the human race....

Curses E-boy! MUST you always plant that dreadful earworm at my unmedicated moments?

gotta go to work, work all night, look for underpants hey, we won't stop until we have underpants, le-da-da-de-da-day!

Clearly you aren't taking this VERY REAL threat to civilization, as we know it, very seriously.

So they tell me, E-boy, so they tell me about so many, many things :D but remember I am apparently so "disorderly" as to be unable to know what's good for me, or so the mysterious "they" at my RX plan would have me believe.

Maybe it is the lack of Cocoa Puffs in my diet? Ya think?

I'm a big fan of fruit loops myself. They scratch the roof of my mouth though... :-( Might help if I didn't devour them in huge bites, but there are protocols to be observed.

Ok will start with autism and then move to gnomes.




It's serendipity? I was driving and jotting my equations on a piece of scratch paper and thinking no this is way to hairy to post and maybe it will offend and here you guys are writing about the autism add thing.

DANGER VERY HAIRY! POSSIBLY POLiTICALLY INCORRECT or DOWNRIGHT OFFESIVE



ADD + SENSORY INTEGRATION = CAPD/ADD INNATENTIVE
(CAPD = ADD inattentive)

ADD + GIFTED + (Some kind of bonding disorder?) + OCD?= ASPERGERS

ADD + (SOME KIND of bonding Disorder)+OCD? + Language disorder=AUTISM (subtract for low spectrum high functioning stuff) or (addition gifted for savant type stuff)




ADD + ? = Bipolar/ADD type primarily IMpulsive (does this exist)?
( BIPOLARS type manic =ADD Impulsives) (BIPOLAR TYPE DEPRESSIVE =ADD Impulsives + long term depression?)

ADD + Gifted = ? (subtype distinctions would affect this how?)

This would mean ADD hyperactive is the purest form.


Don't say you weren't warned! I don't know enough about these things. I'm still waiting for my books. It's just a hunch.

Hunches and Intuition and serendipity?



OK now I attack gnomes

Monkeyche

ADD + SENSORY INTEGRATION = CAPD/ADD INNATENTIVE
(CAPD = ADD inattentive)

It has been questioned whether or not CAPD and ADHD are the same disorder, and researched, I believe.... Here's something interesting:

http://www.incrediblehorizons.com/Auditory-Difficulties.htm

{{{ QUOTE

ADHD, Central Auditory Processing Disorder, and Learning Disabilities

In recent years, several researchers have suggested that there is considerable overlap between ADHD and central auditory processing disorder (CAPD). In fact, some have questioned whether CAPD and ADHD are actually distinct disorders, and have suggested that children diagnosed with ADHD often have CAPD instead. A study published in the Journal of Learning Disabilities takes a careful look at this issue (Vol. 32, 1999).

.......

In the study, the authors began with 3 groups of 15 school-age children. One group was comprised of children with ADHD alone, a second group included children with ADHD and a learning disability in reading, and the third group was made up of children without either diagnosis. The ratio of boys to girls in each group was about 3:1. (Note: It would have been preferable if they included a fourth group comprised of children diagnosed with CAPD but not ADHD, and a final group of children with both CAPD and LD as this would have allowed for a more complete set of comparisons.)
Each child was given several different tests of central auditory processing ability. These tests included: completing words that were presented with portions missing, an auditory discrimination task in which participants were asked to repeat words that were presented with background noise, dichotic listening tasks in which different words were presented in each ear, and participants have to repeat both words in a specified order, and an auditory conceptualization task in which children had to discriminate different speech sounds (the sound of /p/ from the sound of /b/), and to perceive and compare the number and order of sounds within a pattern. All of these tasks are elements of determining whether an individual child has CAPD. All testing was done individually, and care was taken to ensure that children with ADHD had not received any medication for at least 48 hours prior to testing.

The results were quite clear. Based on a composite score derived from the different auditory processing tests, children with ADHD alone did not differ from the control group. Children with both ADHD and LD, however, scored significantly lower than both control children, and children with ADHD. This clearly suggests that problems in central auditory processing ability are associated with LD and not ADHD. It is also provides strong evidence that ADHD and CAPD are truly different disorders, rather than being slightly different expressions of the same basic disorder.

Now, even though these results suggest that ADHD and CAPD are distinct conditions, it is still quite possible that some children with CAPD are misdiagnosed as having ADHD. If this were to occur, it seems unlikely that proper treatment would be instituted, although there is some data to indicate that stimulant medication is helpful to children with CAPD. These results also suggest that children with ADHD who are also learning disabled in reading may be especially likely to have CAPD. For such children, a careful evaluation of this possibility may prove to be quite helpful in developing the most effective treatment plan.

}}}

It says that LD and CAPD have the correllation, not ADHD and CAPD. But doesn't ADHD-PI and LD have a higher correllation then with the other subtypes of ADHD? Not that this is the best study in the world...

In general, those with CAPD have a strong bias torwards auditory inattention, whereas those with ADHD are more universally inattentive.

GNOMES and phobias
Discrepencies.

Usual hairy disclaimer This one gets really bad.

Hair brain theories? Um.... Well see, it's like this. Garden Gnomes are evil. EVIL I TELL YA! They steal underwear and intend to use said underwear in their diabolical plans for world domination and subjegation of the human race....

Yes. Garden Gnomes bother me too. And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

As do some of the avatars I come across here. Contrarily some are very soothing. Like yours. Two of the people who's avatars bug me the most have great stuff to say. And so I search further. I read their other posts. Why such a discrepancy between the avatars people chose and the words people chose (i.e. the people). There's one that actually scares me. As do garden gnomes.

scared = extreme intellectual distraction and/or emotional distraction
sadness=extreme emotional distraction + intellectual distraction?

discrepencies= intellectual distraction?


emotion

Loops and Unifying theories

So i'm consumed and distracted with diagnosing Junior and realising how much moving to France from California and having to talk in a new language and get use to new weather, has thrown me for a loop.

I hate loops.

physical loops can be very soothing. Mental loops destroy me. I do physical loops to relieve the mental loops. It's loop therapy.

Loop therapy: The act of performing physical loops (or eating them eboy?) to relieve mental loops. Often seen in people with ADD and spectrum disorders. (Does spectrum disorder cover autism and all that?, I'm still waiting for my books)


Unifying theories:


All science is physics. and math is the language.

Evolution is the key to biology.

? is the unifying FORCE. (try and think more physics and less star wars)

ADD is either the mother of something or the key to something. It is a unifying theory,

The +'s of ADD?

Oh I forgot TOURETTES

ADD type hyperactive+ADD Type Impulsive = tourettes?
(maybe we need to addition OCD?)
and my end statement should have been

ADD HYPERACTIVE AND ADD IMPULSIVE but that doesn't sound right.
ADD HYPERATIVE + ? = ADD Impulsive?


I say give offer them all a trial on stimulants and see what happens.

And when in doubt treat the ADD first. Or the suspected ADD.

It's just ADD! At least there's ritalin. And It'll get better. And it explains alot.


Simplify. Please fix change add. thanks.

I want to talk more about gnomes phobias and discrepencies later. That is if I haven't been kicked off the forum. And physical non loops.
Here comes the sun!

Then I attack Mad Cows. (the hairy brain disease).

Monkeyche

Disclaimer: I know nothing about any of this stuff.

DisclaimerWhen my community somehow convinced my community of the lack of worth in personal theory, enquiry, observation ... my community shot its own community-self in the head.
You know your mind, and the mind de ton clef ... nobody else will ever come even close.
To be clear - ADD confers the capacity of observing the inner workings of the mind through providing a permissive environment for multiple threads of conscious awareness ... multiple simultaneous trains of thought ... and before I'm asked *1 ... 'and ...???... your point is ...'

*1
... who better (with our unique insight) to provide anecdotal analysis on mind (-especially in an environment of others with similar piercing anecdote) ->->->- than ADDer ->->->- towards 'Model for mind' ...?...

To be *even* more clear - the mind (consciousness) and the fundamental nature of the sub-atomic particle are the only two attractive hunting scapes*2 for the metaphorical ADDer hunter ... keen on stretching our muscles of movement, thought and need for speed. We gravitate towards theories of mind (rrreality) and theories of the sub-atomic (RRReality) ... whilst moving around like crazed llamas ... which is why I spend my time (currently) on the structure of the brain (ok ... murine) (till my work is published) ... and, of course your conCERNs ... and my run with XenaZenXenoZero (woof! woof!) ... immediately post-post.

To be just yet a little further more clear - the mind *falls* on our watch.

*2
... in a recent Journal article (the Journal 'Science' (Science magazine) ... published in Summer '05 ... academics were asked for the ?big question? ... the top 20 questions were pretty much all drawn from the a deeper understanding of rrreality and RRReality --- though ... it must be admitted that these two arenas rather do encapsulate, kinda' pretty much everything). The interesting point though is that the heart of mind of ADDer is revealed by the observation ... which you surely will make with time ... the observation that the only two areas which'll explode the ADDer (us) into a fit of frenzied flame-throwing ... are the structure
... of mind
~and~
... of atom.
--- --- --- ... of 'mind and matter' --- --- ---

The nature of these subjects and the ADDers violently emotive reaction to their discussion ... coupled with the observation that these are the two major questions which possess the academic spirit (and *not* the average) ... ... gives us unique insight in on the ADDer drive ... ... ... the ADDer's 'heart of academic' drive for *knowledge* ... contextual disorder, unfortunately does however though obscure this picture --- though, I believe that ... perhaps ... ... well ... ... ... let's see ... ... ... ...

~Should mention that ... ~
rrr -> personal reality -> the reality models which we store within our mind, and are restricted by our mind, with our own internal personal reality encapsulating only a small portion of ... ... ...
RRR -> true objective reality.

To be rather a little more *even* more rather considerably more clear - the first (most important) stage of understanding that need be reached in reaching some understanding of these two subjects ... is reached by the understanding that 'rrr' doesn't provide a perspective in on 'RRR' (per se) and that ... ... ... ---very--- *importantly* that rrr doesn't provide a perspective in on RRR ...

... :-) ... I know (but, it's simply just that important
... ... ... all else flows froms the deep understanding that all that we know is individual/personal/our take based on our experience/locked away in our heads/stored in our minds!
Rather a couple of rather some standing, in my eyes, describe this idea as 'the individuals' internal models of reality'.

SB.

When my community somehow convinced my community of the lack of worth in personal theory, enquiry, observation ... my community shot its own community-self in the head.

Okay so I have problems switching gears I do have more than one. Too much main stream posting clogging up my brain-lol! Let me hit it a few times see if I can clear things up.

Okay all better . . . . .


two areas which'll explode the ADDer (us) into a fit of frenzied flame-throwing ... are the structure
... of mind
~and~
... of atom.

Some simply do not sneak out side of then four corners of the wwworld within. (I have found = sounds of the box people – okay it has a rhythm inside my head)


Okay SML II take these things of ToM, Tom, and Tam-Tom = Big Bang big hairy deal but what is (_______)ing each (part)-cle is placed into the box -rrreality as desired as all are of same substance in space so any will fit . . . . Perhaps the difference is all in my head not what is perceived by those who are not! M-dot to above is similarity of “added” to mmmany things *not* therefore fit in accordance to ea rrreality!

am i ()?

Yeah that's me.

And I am full blown add innatentive. Anti-impulsivity? (mostly verbal) meaning I do not talk when I am bored intellectually. Examples of verbal impulsivity: exageration infiltrates my writing sometimes. I hate that. I try to proofread with an anti exageration pen.

ADD software tools: spell check, Exageration check, Excessive word play check, condescending check, Get to the point check, site your references (if you can remember them) check, stream of conciousness check, expecting others to follow your mental gymnastics check, don't forget the connection to the relevant check, enough said (your exhausting your audience) check. parentheses inside parentheses check.

And I do not talk when I am looping. When I am stimulated or interested I talk. Have been known to say inappropriate things. I interrupt when interested. Mostly due to fear of forgetting what I need to say. And hoping that if I say it someone will hear it remeber it and remind me. Ritalin helps alot. These things are rarely noticed by anyone.

It's just like SB said earlier in this thread with the hyperactivity. I am motor impulsive. But nobody sees it! I'm primarily intellectually impulsive. EX.I am impulsive when I write/think. But I edit and nobody sees it. It usually stays in my head and I treat it by looping physically.

It also helps to write things down. Forcing my mind to do the things I hate/love example: organize/write with a pen. Helps me remeber.

I talk/think too fast for many people. That gets noticed. But its just seen as high IQ. ITS the ADD.

Ritalin helps alot.


Ok more Pluses (plus = add=+ =ADD)

BIPOLAR= ADD type impulsive + gifted

(the higher the intelligence the more depression? Depression caused by guilt over impulsive acts. Gifted = higher moral standards. Gifted= perfectionism. And more self blame for not fullfilling ones potential. Frustration=depression. )

Treatment=
1. ritalin,
2. additional SRI for depression,
3. ADD diagnosis to answer the whys + skills training to help with memory problems and impulsivity
4. Lots of love
5. Fire your shrink he'll never see the forest through the trees.
6. Loop therapy (see my earlier post in this section, I mop my stone floors. It's a very big house).

This is the group most at risk for suicidal thoughts, shock therapy, doping down the symptoms. Anything to stop the pain.

Plus one more thing and I'm pretty sure you've got sociopathy. what to plus?

Or what to subtract?

OK now this is a big leap------maybe, you subtract ADD from this and get sociopathy. (and then theoretically we would ,have to add something else other wise giftednness in its purest form = sociopathy and that doesn't seem fair or logical because not all sociopaths are gifted are they?

gifted=highly intelligent



I think its lack of high moral standards, what causes that in a highly intelligent human beings?

disparity between intelligence and level of moral standards



intelligence subtract something= Sociopathy (Which would mean intelligence is a plus plus thing. )

No intelligence is language. Math is the language of science. Intelligence is the language of neurology/ neurotransmitters/ neurons?

Sociopathy could be like high intelligence + intelligence processing disorder (as in language processing disorder)

ADD could be thought of as an intelligence processing disorder.

Does ADD have a dark matter/ antimatter analogue?

Is anyone following me?

Normal hairy disclaimer: i don't know anything about anything.


Maybe you guys can help me sort this out?

ANY autistic/ Aspergers/ OCD input?

thanks

Monkeyche

Ok i'll post this article then read SB and mMEad's posts.

Later I'll word play their pseudos. Like alot later!

I am having as much fun as anyone here but I'm also urgently trying to understand Junior. Which is very similar to trying to understand ME. Which seems to be helped alot by understanding YOU.

I FEEL AND OVERWHELMING DESIRE TO INSERT A SMILEY to convey my undying gratitude. Do they have one for that? No i'm just not a smiley kinda girl.

Article. Levine I think.


http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/tcaw/11/i03/html/03health.html

Here's an excerpt its the CAPD/ ADD Innatentive subject

"ADHD Alternatives
Several groups of children are likely to be misdiagnosed with ADHD, leaving other disabilities or extraordinary abilities unrecognized. Individuals with a central auditory processing disorder (CAPD) are often easily distracted, have difficulty starting and/or completing assignments, are easily flustered or confused in noisy environments, are sensitive to loud sounds, and demonstrate difficulty following verbal directions. These individuals usually have normal “hearing” but because of disorders of the central auditory nervous system, they cannot interpret or process speech when in a suboptimal listening environment.

Because of the overlap in behavioral characteristics indicative of CAPD and ADHD, Joan Burleigh and colleagues at the Center for Auditory Research at Colorado State University (Fort Collins) recently compared behavioral checklist data from three groups of individuals who had been tested for CAPD at the center. The researchers looked at

aberrant auditory behaviors (e.g., easily distracted, easily flustered or confused, sensitive to loud noises);
aberrant classroom behaviors (e.g., daydreaming, forgetfulness, restlessness, and incapacity to complete assignments);
aberrant social/emotional behaviors (e.g., anxiety/tension, frustration, lack of confidence, attention seeking); and
disinhibition behaviors (e.g., irritable, hyperactive, impulsive, disobedient, disruptive, uncooperative).
The first group (n = 41) had normal central auditory processing, the second group (n = 50) had been diagnosed with CAPD but had no indication of ADHD, and the third group (n = 57) had been diagnosed with ADHD and subsequently referred to the Center for CAPD for auditory processing testing.

Of the 24 criteria found to clearly distinguish between normal central auditory processing and CAPD, only the disinhibition behaviors were more frequently reported for ADHD/CAPD individuals than for those with CAPD alone. All aberrant auditory behaviors reported in CAPD/ADHD individuals and many of the aberrant classroom behaviors appeared just as frequently in the CAPD group that did not have ADHD. Interestingly, these are the behaviors most likely to indicate Inattentive-type ADHD, a subgroup that some ADHD researchers believe should not be included as a type of ADHD.

Another group of children that exhibit many behaviors characteristic of ADHD are exceptionally intelligent or “gifted” children, who are loosely defined as those with IQs higher than 120. These children often display exceptional intensity, emotionality, impatience, high energy, and inattentiveness. The behaviors may occur because the child is not sufficiently engaged in the classroom, in other words, bored. Alternatively, they may actually have “dual exceptionalities”—giftedness and ADHD.

Obviously, defining ADHD and its associated disorders remains a murky endeavor, but improvements in diagnosis and understanding will be forthcoming."

He's almost there. But he's got it backwards. ADD is not the misdiagnosis it is the Unifying disorder. All this in the mix spectrum stuff is ADD plus. (where's my condescension editor)

disclaimer hairy brained: I know absolutely nothing!


monkeyche

Okay. so I'll save SB's post and Meadd's analysis for after the kids are in bed. At least the 2 year old. I can throw away my cryptic crossword. This should relax my mind enough to sleep. Last question before relaunch. Do you have to be a moderator to get a cool flippy pseudo-name thingy? And what's up with all the subliminals? I guess I need to ponder this a bit.

Monkeyche

Mad Cows anybody?

Do you have to be a moderator to get a cool flippy pseudo-name thingy? You need to have 2000 posts. You'll get there :)...so how is your patience level, says the pot to the kettle?

ton clef, 'che' ...
Welcome to the forum.

.....:-)...

... SB. ...

intelligence subtract something= Sociopathy (Which would mean intelligence is a plus plus thing.


No intelligence is language. Math is the language of science. Intelligence is the language of neurology/ neurotransmitters/ neurons?

Sociopathy could be like high intelligence + intelligence processing disorder (as in language processing disorder)

ADD could be thought of as an intelligence processing disorder.

Does ADD have a dark matter/ antimatter analogue?

Is anyone following me?



You would be surprised what I can follow the only reason they keep me around here these days. I may not end up in the same place you do but rest assured I followed you to where ever I am- always glad to met up with some one else who can write their mind!

Write as you think (with in guidelines = moderator disclaimer thingies) unless you must enter into flat land box country. :faint:





Maybe you guys can help me sort this out?

Don’t know about sorting categorization is not my strong suite however I will be more than happy to help you mixed it up differently. It will appear fixed merely because it is different. ;)






ANY autistic/ Aspergers/ OCD input?


I only have ADHD with “H” factor, dyslexia, and some strange sleep patterns and a hint of Heinz 57 sneaking in between.



understand Junior. Which is very similar to trying to understand ME. Which seems to be helped alot by understanding YOU.


It may help if I understood what you are trying to understand about him? My children are grown and I had periods of fog along with periods of clear skies.

Are you trying to determine if he has CAPD, ADD, giftedness, or a combo.






Do you have to be a moderator to get a cool flippy pseudo-name thingy?

Well I got one faster that way ; however once a member reaches 2000 post they can do the same time with their user title.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15844

Custom Titles* For the "elite" ADD Forum member - Exceed 2,000 posts (not spam messages, mind you) and you can create your own custom title in the ADD Forums.

So, instead of "ADDvanced Forum Veteran", etc., you could create a title that says "Mother of 8yo ADDer", "Mountain Biker" etc.

2 Exceptions to this: No medical, coaching or legal titles (i.e. Doctor, ADHD Coach, Attorney), and nothing that violates the Forum rules and guidelines.

Please contact a Site Admin when you qualify!








And what's up with all the subliminals? I guess I need to ponder this a bit.


Don’t ponder “play” let your mind do the thinking for your brain, too much analysis will cause insanity not to mention sever head aches.

Much understanding lies behind the door that can only be opened with the key of acceptance. Many are unable to because they feel they have no time when in reality time combined with acceptance will reveal that which the analyzing mind set is unable to access. In this sense time has no meaning as it is all one life time of seeking to connect. This has a duel application of coa rse . . . .This will not only assist in the “subliminal” here but will also free up the mind to reach that which you seek to connect within your son. . . . . connection comes first but only after acceptance last of all over time the revelation which some time is so slow it the realization strikes sudden.

When analysis fails try play where one seeks to gain knowledge allow acceptance to stand. Realize this gives most hope when all linier and logical attempts have come to no avail but part of the acceptance of mind is realizing there are things which you may never understand . . . .If a person can live with the latter then the first step has been taken the only thing left is the journey!

I wish I could be of more help but all I have to offer is the experience of my mind with it’s limited understanding! :o

hi long time. I'm back. what a ride. Bought a new printer and its dead again.

slept some.

need to sleep more.

will go back and take a look at standard model.

Can't quite get all the pieces together of this puzzle which I thought was an image but is words.

.need just a bit more sleep.

anycomments on a med called bromadiazepan or something like this? And cerulyse to unblock the ears?

Any psychics out there? I could use one right now?
monk

font(ain)s are fun eh?

disclaimewr I know nothing.

hey Monkeyche...I was wondering where you disappeared to!!!