I was excited today. A friend of mine, who I had a little feelings for (We've known each other for 14 years), invited me to go to a our city's local hockey game. I haven't been to the new center (My old company worked on the construction aspect of it) and I was curious to see what a hockey game is like and the new building. We get there and have a blast. He even hugged me when every one had to hug the person next to each other if a camera focused on you. I was thrilled.

On the ride home, he said he had something important to tell me. I asked what and he told me that he signed up for e-harmony ($50 a month, $100 for three months). I just looked at him puzzled, I laughed and asked why hasn't he asked me and he said "I'm looking for someone younger than me, not my age or older" My mouth dropped open. I thought I heard wrong.
He saw my confusion and quickly said. "Kassie, I love you but you have to know. You are almost 40 and I want two kids. You are too old and I know you 've been looking for someone but you will be hard pressed to find someone your age for they will want kids too and what can you offer?"

I'm crushed.

Is this true?

Not necessarily. Not everyone wants kids....Maybe he does...and maybe he wants someone "younger" but he was speaking only for himself....not everyone else. I think he was way overgeneralizing.....

AND 40 is not too old to have kids by the way. My 48 year old sister had my niece when she was 41. My niece is 7.

Thanks Joan, I just think having more kids isn't for me. I'm so busy and with my two kids I just can't imagine having more.
But if that is what men are looking for, I'm out of luck. I'm sure they think that I won't have more.

I'm rather blue about this. I'm am trying not to take this too hard but as with most things, here I go to extreme...

No kassie

thats not what all men are looking for

maybee he is

from what I know of you from here you have more to offer then a lot of men deserve

Garry

Originally posted by Keppig
I was excited today. A friend of mine, who I had a little feelings for (We've known each other for 14 years), invited me to go to a our city's local hockey game. I haven't been to the new center (My old company worked on the construction aspect of it) and I was curious to see what a hockey game is like and the new building. We get there and have a blast. He even hugged me when every one had to hug the person next to each other if a camera focused on you. I was thrilled.

On the ride home, he said he had something important to tell me. I asked what and he told me that he signed up for e-harmony ($50 a month, $100 for three months). I just looked at him puzzled, I laughed and asked why hasn't he asked me and he said "I'm looking for someone younger than me, not my age or older" My mouth dropped open. I thought I heard wrong.
He saw my confusion and quickly said. "Kassie, I love you but you have to know. You are almost 40 and I want two kids. You are too old and I know you 've been looking for someone but you will be hard pressed to find someone your age for they will want kids too and what can you offer?"

I'm crushed.

Is this true?


Shall we list 90 year old men who have children with "yonger" women?

there are also perfectly reproductive folks who cose NOT to have children.

Seems like with adoptiona ALL your options are open for as long as you want them, regardless of "the ticking time bomb."

Don't be crushed.

Do take his suggestion. It works for people. Times have changed. church and temple aren't the best places to find mates, and parents got pushed out of the role, perhaps for good reason, but that leaves it to (us) amatuers... I got married late, had kids late...

chin up. You are wonderful. but don't expect "just that" to "do it" for you. it takes more now. Just like always, it takes help. Except the old sources of that help have failed, and so there are new ones developing. do everything. meet everyone. issue invitations yourself. be obvious but not panicked or frantic. (Easy fro me to say?)

Does thsi make any sense?

David

My two bits...

40 is not old by any definition. Isn't that when some women start to really explore their sexuality and the drive increases? Isn't that when maturity starts to kick in enough to let you be a great date and a good listener? There are men who want kids, men who don't want kids. Obviously, you don't want a man who wants kids to be your long term love, as you know its going to run into problems if you disagree on such an important choice. So, put you antenna up for the men who really are done raising children and are ready to live life with a fun loving adult women who can really be special to be with. There are plenty of men who fit the description of craving such a woman. Never think there is only one love in life, there are many.

I'd also like to point out, that rather than see how insensitive and unsupportive and naive your friend was, you immediately came to doubt yourself and your own worth. Its time to take a look at yourself, and how you judge, value, assess, your own self worth, and how willing you are to take things to heart, rather than see rationally that one person's needs are not the same as your needs. Your self worth must be stronger than a foot in mouth statement, because foot in mouth statements are made all day long, by well meaning people who don't know any better. If I had my dithers, though, I would say the words from your friend were expressing his own frustration at finding a mate that matches his needs. For some reason, he seems to believe that all men his age want children and want a younger woman to bear those youngsters. There are plenty of men who don't want more children to feed. Personally, I think his assumptions are based on egocentric projection, rather than any reality based survey of men.


Jonathan

Sorry to disappoint you but I agree with him. I am at the same stage in life he is. I would not want to date someone who is not able/willing to have kids.

It has to do with where he finds himself in life and where you are—not how old you are. He is looking to start a family and you have been there, done that.

Look for someone who is at the same stage in life that you are. That does not necessarily have anything to do with age by the way.

Maybe it would be better to look for a guy who already has kids without looking at his age. Although I suspect an older guy would be more receptive.

Anyhow isn’t this how it has always been? Girls and woman always look to the older guys leaving the younger guys in the dust. Now he feels like he is one of the older guys that younger women desire. So why shouldn’t he (we) go for the younger women at this point?

I mean, we were burned by ‘the system’ for years and now that we are the ones who benefit from it you expect us to do anything but take advantage of it????? Sorry, not going to happen.

Not to be too crass, but you had your chance at guys his age 10-15-20 years ago but you were dating older guys and rejecting him. Now it’s too late. Sorry.

One vote for Kassie being ultra cool and her friend being an insensitive boor... :D

Well, no doubt she is cool but I disagree about him. Women always complain about this but it is the woman who perpetuate it by insisting on older guys when they are young. I would have named this thread "Women only want older men."

Hey, just look at Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher

Penultimate: Sorry but not entirely true in my opinion and experience.....I am in Kassie's age range....and 10 or 15 years ago....I did not want so called "older" guys....I wanted guys my own age.....a year or two older perhaps...but that's it.....I don't think it has anything to do with what we "USED to want".....it has to do with the way things are now....

But I do agree with your comment about Kassie (and me too) needing to seek out guys that are looking for the same things we are (i.e. no kids).....and it has entirely nothing to do with age or the past....

Joan, I too vote for "stage in life" match, older or younger!

David

I have to agree here, he can't generalise his own preference like that! I think he was just trying to justify his own choice/preference to himself in a way because he knew it would hurt you to be "turned down" by him.

There are plenty of guys 40+ who have either had kids or never wnat them and are looking for someone their age to share their life with, not start a family. In fact from the people I know, the ones who meet a new partner at 40+ and start a new family from scratch are in the minority.

Originally posted by Sc@tterBr@in_UK
I think he was just trying to justify his own choice/preference to himself in a way because he knew it would hurt you to be "turned down" by him.

You might have hit the nail on the head here... that is a very perceptive statement. If that's the case, I withdraw the boor comment, but he's still being insensitive, just with better intentions.

However there ARE plenty of people in this world who are short sighted enough to make blanket "I will never go out with this sort of person" statements... it is still possible this guy is one of them... *sigh*

Penultimate, I have to say that you made a generization that didn't apply to the women I know. I and my other friends went for younger guys (like 1-4 years younger) why? Because we were all young minded. :D I think its my view of seeing younger men as those I want to date that is getting me in trouble now. For its the older men that don't want more children or no more children. Who's kids are teens and are looking forward to more freedom.
For it not that I can't have more kids. My doctor says I can have children till I'm 50 for my body is so "young" Oh so you all know I turn 40 in June. I know... I don't look it :D I appear to be 30 which is a scream :) The main reason I don't want children is that I really love to travel and I now that my kids are teens I can go to the book store or go game and they can watch them selves and better yet, they are so much fun on a road trip with the music playing! :D

ps Paul, I think my friend is insensitive, hense his status of being single at 37, never did he have a long relationship.. gee I wonder why. But I'm not angry at him. I knew this about him and am his friend anyways. Besides if I really wanted him... I would have him :)

Kassie,

Not that you want to trot it out, but I either don't know or have forgetten your story as to how you did get to where you are.

In any case, being the solution minded male that I am, I would not encourage "all men think this" kind of reaction. You are looking for a particular se of characteristics.

Perhaps it is easier when we are young and horny and either don't know what comes next (all puns intended... even the ones haven't thought of!) and life sort of leads us through. But all that means is you'll have to be a bit more deliberate in your approach to the ball(sports analogy) rather than just letting nature take its course. It doesn't mean you have to settle for soemthing other than what you want. IMHO

It just means you might have to seek it differently than you had anticipated. I'd hope that you'd not let that difference disuade you from doing what you must to get what you want.

I've let that happen in my life, many times, in many important and unimportant ways. i think It might have to do with ADHD or just be a consequence of the world not working the way 1) I thought it should and 2) Me not working the way the world (and eventually I) thought I should.

We, who are not part of your target market, still wish you well!

David

"We, who are not part of your target market, still wish you well!" - Wheel

Oh my gosh, I have no idea what my target market is?!

Kassie walks away laughing hysterically........... :D

love and peace

I can't tell what my target job is, or what I should do next!

Good point.

Enjoy!

David

Would you?

Hey Cassie, I turned 40 in June too. Unfortunetely I do look about my age! I don't feel it or act it!
Interesting that I have always perfered older men. Not my fathers age though! While you perfer younger. My age gap is narrowing a bit as I feel that men are likely more reasonably adjusted after their 40's. But why let age be a factor?
I never did it just seems to be what I am attracted to or get along best with. I have dated men from 26 to 66. I just seem to fall for the ones 7-14 years my senior.
Other than for reproductive reasons men are attracted to younger bodies/faces, but truthfully so are women, it is of less importance though to us females, the other qualities take precidense moreso. It bothers me that men are so driven for such younger flesh. But most of them know what's really important, or there brains do at least!
Good luck

Originally posted by janine
Would you?

Hey Cassie, I turned 40 in June too.

Other than for reproductive reasons men are attracted to younger bodies/faces, but truthfully so are women, it is of less importance though to us females, the other qualities take precidense moreso. It bothers me that men are so driven for such younger flesh. But most of them know what's really important, or there brains do at least!
Good luck

You must "understand" as a system, to keep from getting into some really "bad" systemic pathologies, it is important, so far, for the base real criteria of the sexes to be significantly different and unrelated... to stir the pot. If men weren't "drawn" to younger flesh then women would have to be reproductive their whole lives, and men would have to go through menapause (requireing women to be drawn to younger flesh!)

So you get what you get... besides, as someone pointed out to men and women decrying the constitions of the opposite sex, men are what men are BECAUSE women "preffered" them that way, and vice versa. Men are the result of female breading choices, and women are what they are due to male breading choices.

that's it from the cognitve tower. : )

david

Kassie,

I posted what I did kind of late at night and you know how the impulsivity can get. Anyhow, I think that what I posted was factually correct but kind of insensitive so I apologize for that.

Having said that I disagree 100% with these attacks on the guy. In my opinion he was being wise and was doing the right thing. He is an adult and he has decided that having children of his own is a priority. He is entitled to make that determination. You have decided to go another way, as is your right.

As you yourself admitted there is no chance of the two of you getting together. He wants kids and you don’t want any more. Which makes the two of you incompatible.

Which leads me to my other point...once you realize the two of you are not going to be a couple, who he dates is none of your business.

What right do you or anyone else have to criticize him for deciding how he wants to live his life? Answer—NONE!

I think he did the right thing. He knows that you two are not going to get together so he is looking for someone who is at the appropriate stage in life for him. You should do the same. Stop obsessing about a person’s age and look for a partner who is where you need him to be.

Bottom line: This guy isn’t it. Move on.

David, you point out good stuff. we are all wired for the survival of the species.
I would like it if you would elaborate more about the "Breeding Choices" stuff more thoroughly. In what way are men a result of female breeding choices, and visa versa?
Thanks Janine

The argument goes like this:

Those of either gender that reproduce are "chosen" from the available population by the OPPOSITE sex.

Therefore, the characteristics of those individuals are given weight by reproduction, and those who do not breed are seen, from a genetic point of view, to have reduced comparative representation in the next generation, genetically.

It is exactly the same simple and primitive "genetic engineering" by selective breeding that is held responsible for all the domesticated animals that exist.

You can find more about this from published authors on the subject.

There are some obvious aberations: Ghegas Kahn's reputed to have fathered 10,000 children in his time. Indeed, his genetic markers are found in perhaps as much as 6 to 10% of the population of that part of the world. How much choice was involved on the part of those women may be at question. I would not assume that all those women were raped, yet I would also find it hard to beleive that some were not co-erced.

Indeed however, when news of sexually transmitted diseases are told, I am always amazed at the (male) individuals who get large numbers of women to have sex with them, willingly, sometimes as many as a 100, in a year or two or less. They seem like the dregs of the earth, and yet, they get large numbers of wiling sex partners!

I hope that answers the "breeding choices of the opposite sex" question.

?
_______________________________________________

Which leads me to my other point...once you realize the two of you are not going to be a couple, who he dates is none of your business.

What right do you or anyone else have to criticize him for deciding how he wants to live his life? Answer—NONE!

I think he did the right thing. He knows that you two are not going to get together so he is looking for someone who is at the appropriate stage in life for him. You should do the same. Stop obsessing about a person’s age and look for a partner who is where you need him to be.

Penultimate
________________________________________________

Maybe I'm reading your posts wrong but it sounds like you are accusing me of being noisey and obsessing. I'm am neither. My friend told me he was looking at e-harmony. I didn't ask. He had asked me out on a date a few years ago so I asked him what about me in a joking kind of way, he has been hitting on me for years. I didn't expect his reply. Since he's one of the 5 single guys in our gaming group, I was surprised what he told me. He cares about me so he was tell me his trueth. I just posted so I can tell if this was only his thoughts or was it indeed an general consensus. I was curious, not obsessing. I'm not worried or upset now. I was temporarily upset because I didn't expect it.

I love my friend and wouldn't do anything to hurt his happiness. That's what friends due. I don't think he was delibrately mean. He does say things, without meaning to, that are hurtful... Don't we all?

Peace and love all :D

Now we get to the real reason for your post. You were not looking for an analysis of the situation or advice, you were looking for validation.

I read your post as a complaint against the guy because he decided to date younger women rather than you. Really what your post says is “I am sad because he has decided not to date ME and I need comfort.”

I guess I’ll have to dust off that old Deborah Tannen book about communication between the sexes... :D

Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus :)

Originally posted by Keppig
I just posted so I can tell if this was only his thoughts or was it indeed an general consensus.

Originally posted by Penultimate
Really what your post says is “I am sad because he has decided not to date ME and I need comfort.”

What is wrong with this picture?

Read between the lines.

One cannot assume what Kassie's reasons for her post were. I always see validation needed in every post here, so that goes without saying. However, the post could be truly an inquiry into the minds of men, to find further information on this quality of some men.

I do see a lot of defensiveness in some posts, as if Kassie were attacking men who were interested in younger women. That does not seem to be the case, but on the other hand, simply not being intended as an attack does not logically equal that the post was therefore a search for validation. It could very well be a search for information. The idea that something is either an attack offensive, or a validation defensive move, does not really compute for me as logical.

by the same token, people generally post here for validation, so the validation aspect of any post is basically an assumed component, regardless of the other components that may be present, and regardless of the degree of the other reasons for posting. So that is a mute point.

Personally I find it a little assuming however, to assume one knows why Kassie is posting. Better to ask Kassie, rather than assume. We are not mind readers, any of us, so might as well check it out with the other.

Finally, though, I want to say to Kassie, I understand why you would be put off by the comments made; the main comment that bothered me was the one that insulted your ability to provide or offer something of value to men your age or younger than you. That not so subtle attack was in my opinion a cover and justification for his own guilt at not choosing you and at his own guilt about knowing he is very age conscious and searching for a "younger babe." It was all justification for his actions, which truly did not need to be justified - he has a right to prefer younger women - but he doesn't know yet he has that right - and doesn't know you accept his right to that preference - and he felt he had to go on the offensive and make some lousy bashing generalizing statement which in some way was putting you in the wrong, like "how dare you Kassie, think I the proverbial elderly male who is finally eligible for younger flesh, expect me to date you, who doth now want to produce a litter of puppies!"

lol...I had to add some humour at the end!

You are fine Kassie, and some men are going to go wild over you, and over your flesh, and they will be extremely glad they are not dating immature unpredictable versions of the opposite sex!!! Some men are ready to settle down with someone special like you!! Its your job to find them and make yourself available to them, emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually!!

Jonathan

:lol: Jonathan, Thank you! You understood me!! (Kassie is doing cartwheels) You made my day!! :D

Penultimate-I figured you were reading into things. In the future when you read posts from me, I say exactly what I'm thinking. If I was angry I would have posted it. If I thought he was a jerk, I would have posted it. I have seen your other posts so I was confused why you were posting to me that way. Now I know. Friends :D

And don't worry, I'm still looking :)
Peace

Your most welcome Kassie! I'm glad I understood someone this week! :)

Jon

Just keep your chin up.

I'm posting late in the game on this subject but "Do men only want younger women?"

My answer, I'm 24 yrs old and have a 21 yr old girl friend so i'm mearly posting an opinion as i'm not looking for a woman at all right now. But I would have to say that a woman 10 yrs older than me would be quite a delight maybe even 15 yrs older... Now i'm not sure how that would ever work out in the long run but I think it would me sexy if you know what i mean LOL

But that is just an opinion and not something i'm chasing after

Amen to that. I'm 21 and my closest friend is a 31 year old woman. We've both admitted that one of the only reasons we aren't more than that is because her 13 year old daughter is closer in age to me than she is and that's a bit spooky in both our books. Honestly, I'm pretty bored with women (girls) my age and don't have the patience for them anymore (I think older women value the fixer-upper a bit more), I've moved on to women 3-8 years older than me, who knows if that's who I'll end up with.

Wait a minute: you've known this guy for more than a decade. If he wanted kids, he had a long time to drop that little piece of information. What was up with him that he didn't share this with someone he was suppossed to have feelings for?

I wouldn't be real thrilled with ANYBODY said to me, "You are too old and I know you 've been looking for someone but you will be hard pressed to find someone your age for they will want kids too and what can you offer?"

Bull pucky. Lots of people don't want more children. . .or ~any~ children. What kind of father would he be anyway, with a life view like that? Maybe years ago he was the bees' knees, but maybe in 2003, he isn't quite as grown up as you are.

I just hate it when I let myself be defined by other people, and I have done it, too. I also get anxious when I feel like I am giving more than I am getting back. I am sure you will feel much better soon. Be good to yourself and spend time with people who appreciate how caring and nice you are.

That's exactly what I'm doing nowadays... Guess who's got a date Saturday :D

cool! Have a great time!
J9

Wooohooo!

Be good, or if you can't be good, provide us details :D

Kassie: So.....who is he, what's his name????:D

Have a blast.....Give us the play by play, if you wish, the next day....:)

His name is Steve and he's also ADD, similiar to mine which as we all know means we'll either hate or love each other :D
And yes, Joan, I will let you know how it went for you are my friend for live :) (You too, Paul! - and do you really want the "bad" details? ;) )

Oh and he's a year older than me :D

Originally posted by Keppig
And yes, Joan, I will let you know how it went for you are my friend for live :) (You too, Paul! - and do you really want the "bad" details? ;) )

Ooo, don't tempt me!

On second thought... tempt me all you like :D :D :D

Well the date was ok, the guy only talked about himself and was too tired to do more than a fourth of the museum, which bummed me out. He then showed me all the places his old girlfriend and he used to hang out at... Sigh, I would think a 40year old would be more mature than that... He hasn't talked to me since then eighter... sigh. Sorry it isn't more exciting, Paul ;)

Darnit, sorry Kassie. Yes you WOULD think a 40-something year old male could do better than that.....apparently he's stuck on the ex....bummer.....:(

Does HE have a friend for you?

Perhaps Santa will put someone in your stocking....:)

P.S. Guys please explain -- WHY do you insist on talking about yourselves all night? (those of you who do...that is...what's up with that?)

I don't do that! I LOVED hearing about my partner when I was dating!

And sorry to hear this was a bummer, Kassie... you deserve somebody more stimulating than that...

The title of this thread blew me away. Maybe insecure men need a gal ten years their junior draped off their arm. Personally, I find women in general spectacular in ways that go well beyond sex appeal. If I wasn't an atheist I would call it a spiritual thing. Older women are, to me, even more feminine and attractive. My wife is five years older than me and very mature for her age. Kassie, 40 is prime time for a lady as far as I am concerned. That guy who told you he loved you but needed someone younger did you a favor! At your age you know precisely what you want, you are mature, stable, in your sexual prime (not trying to be offensive, but they do say mid thirties to early to mid forties is sexual prime for women), you are undoubtedly independent, and there are a host of other qualities I could go on and on about. I got around the block a time or two before I finally settled down, and I am here to tell you I prefer the company of a lady I can have mature and stimulating conversation with and still have no dount I am in the company of a Woman with a capitol "W"! There are young ladies who can pull this off, but it is far more common in older women.

Any guy that turns you down for that reason is a straight up idiot!

Originally posted by Keppig
Well the date was ok, the guy only talked about himself and was too tired to do more than a fourth of the museum, which bummed me out. He then showed me all the places his old girlfriend and he used to hang out at... Sigh, I would think a 40year old would be more mature than that... He hasn't talked to me since then eighter... sigh. Sorry it isn't more exciting, Paul ;)

1) yes he's a jerk... and
2) he was trying to be "vulnerable and self exposing... trying to let you know about him through exposition.
3) he doesn't know much, so he talked about what he does know.
4) socialy it is bad form to talk about ex-s... he's ADD? So he won't get that till someone etches it on his coneas...
5) he thinks he knows he really disappointed you, so he won't call from sheer embarassment.
6) he doesn't feel like he can keep up with you physically, so he won't go there...

Don't feel too sorry for him... calling him and saying you had a good time would confuse him. calling and saying you'd like to see him again would confuse him, but wouldn't seem insanely untrue... rescuing him won't make him socially better, physically stronger, or a better conversationalist.

Let him pass and get another?

Next date, (with anyone) do something explicit:
Say "telll me about..." or
"Let me tell you about..."

Do it until he does...

Originally posted by waywardclam
I don't do that! I LOVED hearing about my partner when I was dating!


Paul: I am SOOOO glad to hear this.....I can't tell you how many dates I have had where the guy jibber jabbered ALL NIGHT LONG...and didn't ask a thing about me....

And when I would turn the coversation back to myself -- he would immediately turn it back to HIMSELF.......Yuck:(

Kassie: With all of these good ideas, I'm sure you will have a better date soon:)

Joan,

I dig the quote. I'd say it applies unless your name is Jim fix. ;-)

*End wrenching subject change*

As far as the whole dating scene goes, I hated it. Guys will go on and on about the virtues of bachelorhood but I don't see it. Maybe I am alone in the male world in valuing family and having folks to share life with, but I doubt it. I didn't have the best family life growing up, and while my relationship now is certainly complicated we definitely love each other. My wife may sometimes wonder about my feelings for her, but she needn't.

I bring this up because of the reasons for her fears... Women get bombarded with so much crap about "what men want". Teenage girls drive themselves to distraction trying to be like models in magazines, diet books sell more than the classics. It's getting crazy. My wife thinks because she is getting older I am going to lose interest... First of all, she is aging a hell of a lot more gracefully than I am. Second of all, if a man is that shallow then the sooner you get rid of his sorry kiester the better off you are!

Diet and exercise are important to health, and I recommend anyone who is interested in pursuing a healthier lifestyle do so. I don't recommend they do this if their goal is to look like Cindy Crawford or the like though. It just isn't likely to happen, unless they have that particular body type and that kind of metabolism. I happen to be in pretty darn good shape now, almost as good as I was in high school. I don't look anything like Brad Pitt though. Can't say I care either. My build is all torso. Short limbs, and long back don't make for a particularly striking figure. Odd is more like it. My wife seems to dig it though and I know my Mommy will always love me. ;-) Bottom line, no one likes to be alone, but being with a jerk is worse than being by yourself. At least that's how I feel.

You know, I have no idea if one word of that long ramble was even remotely coherent or relevant to any of this... I hope so... I am not having a very good day. I am in a bit of an odd state of mind. Let me apologize in advance if I have made an *** out of myself...

I thin the Bible reflects some profound truths, whether people wish they were so or not.

there does seem to be an inexplicable drive for women to "hunger after a man."

Thank God.

There is no other sane reason < big grin >

It is high irony that men who are "fix it" inclined, and perhaps too simplistically reasoning oriented to have their need to be needed met by an otherwise sane individualy feeling affection for them based on pure insanity... <smile >

Biology is destiny? Maybe. But it doesn't preclude certain exquisite forms of subversion. We humans are so clever at finding ways around these things.

Kassie, do you require men to be older than you or would you be willing to open your mind to dating younger men? As AD/HD women, we are perennially "young" and I personally (not by conscious choice) find myself routinely dating younger men because we have so much fun (sometimes I feel like a 21 year old boy trapped in my body). I haven't actively pursued anyone -- they ask me. I'm not all that attractive either. It's also been interesting for me to note that younger men don't have as much baggage around this as men my age.

When I was younger (and reproductive), I wanted an older man to take care of me and my babies. That doesn't work for me anymore.
What is it they say (who's "they") "you gotta kiss alot of frogs before you find a prince".

Let your joi de vive shine girlfriend and you will be irresistable.

Peace love $ road hockey.

I LIKE that attitude! :D

I have no problems with older women within my age range but really i tend to go out with younger women. i dont know why, but i guess for some men its a power trip. if the person has a nice personality and i like them i wouldnt nessecerily look at age. there is 5 years between my mum and dad (my dad being the oldest) and thats fine.

citruscat- "Kassie, do you require men to be older than you or would you be willing to open your mind to dating younger men?"

To me it depends on the person. I just need someone secure with themselves and their lives. Too many times I get a younger man interested in me but I turn into their mother. They are lost souls who are attracted to my sureness and confidence. I'm their Angel. While I like to be needed, I sure would like to be equal with a person. You know, both having jobs, in counciling if they need it, stuff like that. I honestly never dated except recently (museum date) anyone older than me. My "child-like" wonder of things tends to attract the younger. I wonder how the older gentlemen would have reacted if he saw me playing computer games with my teens :D

You need to find a childlike older gentleman, Kassie! :D

Originally posted by Keppig
I wonder how the older gentlemen would have reacted if he saw me playing computer games with my teens :D

He may have invited you over to HIS house for a play date....and told you to bring your teens and THEIR computer games.....Not bad, huh?

Haha :)
Actually the gentleman in question wasn't sure if he likes kids or not...
I miss gaming, there, even though none are interested in me, is where the older guys who have their inner child. You know what kills me, When I weighed 50lbs lighter they were all over me, now that I'm bigger I'm egnored. They have no idea what they are missing ;)

Someone will appreciate you Keppig... give it time... we do :D

Keppig,

I passed up a dear young woman who was over weight.

She invited me to her wedding... she was still, curvy, but very slender in telling spots (NOT anorexic, just really a healthy balance.)

I felt like a heal for not giving her a spin... her husband got interested while whe was heavy and she lost weight the result of bein gloved for who she was.

I was sorry I had been "weight" bigotted, but in all honesty, it was my vicerol reaction. I really couldn't help it at the time.

As much as I want to be a perfect guy, I am wht I am. On the flip side, my sife started out slender and two children and several diagnosis later, has picked up weight, and I really am not bothered in the slightest. Same guy, different day?

keep looking gently. don't settle, and don't force. and keep looking... enlist others. make it a project! but relax... the right match will happen at the time the creator has arranged. I think.

Signed, more honest than perfect.

Everyone finds what they find attractive, to be that way for their own reasons. To call yourself biggoted over that may or may not be true. I know when I was younger weight bothered me far more than it does now. I think this is mostly because I confused what was important to society in general and my peers with what was important to me... The bottom line is that you are the only one whose opinion counts in such matters. It just takes time, especially for us men, to get to a point in life at which we begin to separate ourselves and our interests, from what other people think they should be. I think I may have broken away early, simply because as much as I like people, being mentally ill made them entirely too much work on any terms but my own for a while. Kind of an odd way to mature, but I suppose it makes up for all the ways I am still growing in my other facets.

Maybe it's my swedish blood, or maybe just happenstance, but I am not big on sticks. I like women who look like women. Now this doesn't mean skinny is out, but it does mean that women who are so malnourished that they have hollow cheeks, and are bony as hell (I suppose they call it the waifish look) are totally out. I want no hugs or intimacy with someone who is capable of inflicting blunt trauma injuries to my internal organs with their boniness.

My wife bemoans the loss of her figure... Truthfully, she still looks the same to me. Blond hair, deep blue eyes, short, stocky italian build, and as feminine as they come. In short, while I am sure she has changed over time, her essence has not, and she remains the same woman I married and evokes the same feelings although they are perhaps more evolved now. Everything from the physical attraction I have always felt for her to the deep and abiding love that, in spite of the tension and bad blood my mental illness and ADD have produced, remains still. No, I don't suppose she is a spring chicken anymore, but then, neither am I and, frankly, she's a hottie and I am not. ;-)

Oh, I should probably add a disclaimer here, lest anyone become confused by past and/or future events...

ADD is, as most, if not all, of you, know, very hard on relationships. Many of you also have a similar row to hoe with the additional burden of mental illness on your relationships. I am sure there are many who have far worse situations than I do, but I would like to clarify mine calmly now so that perhaps you all could remind me of this calm at a future date.

My wife loves me. Of that I have no doubt. I love her, although she, I believe, does have her doubts. The reasons for this are myriad, but I am sure they would be familiar to you folks. Some typical marital issues, but mostly ADHD, and mental illness. My wife waffles as to her belief in the validity of said issues.

Needless to say this has led to many a major conflict. In the last year they have been especially bad, as my talent for saying amazingly stupid things was assisted greatly by antagonistic meds I was unaware were making me increasingly hostile and even further reducing my ability to maintain any king of editorial control over speech when upset. The upside is I got off one of the responsible meds and was able to regain enough control over my mouth to avoid the more spectacularly and ridiculously insulting utterances. The downside is that my wife doesn't believe there is any nuerological basis for having difficulty controlling speech editing. She thinks I am making an excuse I guess. I told her I wasn't. I told her the fact that it was exceedingly difficult to control did not make it impossible, and while I had not at the point in time in question found an effective means of doing so, I did. In other words the behavior was not acceptable by any standards, and I don't expect her not to be upset. She got heartfelt apologies. I asked her to read some stuff from my coach and Doc so she could see it was not simply a matter of me just being evil. Now at least, having gotten off that med and finally mediated it she can see I was being proactive too. How does one make up for such things though? One can't. All you can do, is show that you truly are sorry and give it time. Try to make amends.

She also sees the forgetting as an intentional act. Even Adderall and religious use of a PDA don't 100% fix this. The fact that she has been putting up with it for so long that any small lapse is now cause for major upset on her part, doesn't help much.

It isn't that she doesn't have cause to be upset folks. She does. Nor is it that I am not doing what I am supposed to in the way of correcting things. It is that it has come to a point, where she is short of patience (she has a full plate of her own you see) and not sure if she believes in this stuff (and yes she has been to this site and yes she has spoken with my coach and doctors. Hell, her Doc is ADHD!) so she gets very angry and well... Let's just say all the practice, and lifestyle changes, and working out, and medication, and PDA applications, and coaching tips, and organization in the world don't do a thing for me once I am good and stressed out. It all goes out the window.

So, some days we are the loving couple. Some days she is convinced I am pulling a scam and treats me like all those teachers and my parents once did (and you bet I resent it!), and some days we just calmly discuss separating.

My ship placed me on limited duty and shipped me back to ease the stress and allow me a better opportunity to address my symptoms. I have gotten worse since I got back though because the stress is worse. They did me no favors. They did my family no favors. Heck, they didn't even do themselves any favors because I was contributing more than my share on that ship.

I just don't know what is going to happen in the end folks. Not about anything. Oddly, I am somewhat happy at the moment. Only because I have come so far from where I started when I set out to find out what the heck was wrong with me though. As far as life in general goes, I find myself deeply sad more often than I care for. I know a lot of that is the loss of 400 MG of Wellbutrin a day. I mean one is bound to get break through depression when you cut your anti-depressant dose in half and have things to be sad about anyway right? I guess confused and busy is a good way to put it. I am hoping if I keep moving forward I will be across the bridge before I end up swimming.

Kepping,

Just so you know dear, my wife is only two years your junior. Told you I dig older women. ;-) You need to find yourself a nice cabana boy, who is financially independent, wise beyond his years, and in need of an education. ;-)

It also occurred to me that I have always liked younger and older women... but younger women keep getting older!

And the age at which a "woman" is too young to be able to conceive of being attracted to in a relationship keeps increasing...

I think the question might need to be split...

Do men want women who are younger than they are?

Do men want women who are younger than I am?

I am sure there is not a single answer for either of those, though I am sure you are still too young for some men!

Well, I am off the market myself, but I can still say that, absolutely age independent, ALL women are special to me. Best creatures to walk this earth in my humble opinion. Just ask your average five year old what he thinks of his Mom. ;-)

Well I will respond to the last couple of posts. At least I will start out that way. I was 36 when I met my 40 yo wife. She has gained weight and that has not changed my desire any. she was not super skinny to begin with. I to liked societies def of a nice women, but have learned it is what is inside that is more important. I would be lying if I said that I do enjoy looking at a good looking women. Anyway Keppig I think there are men who are your own age who would love to get to know you.
E-boy,
I can relate to your relationship issues. I think part of them are the men-women things and then ADD/mental issues on top of that. My wife thinks that I forget things or don't do things to hurt her. She gets very impatient. We are like you 1 minute a happy loving couple and a moment later talking about seperating. Sorry to hear you're feeling sad. Hope things look up for you soon!

I have to share this with you all, lately I've been getting hit on by men 10 years younger than me!! Talk about a switch of experiences! Now I find myself hesitating to these younger guys. I mean I'm 39 and the guys are 29... What they remember in their childhood I remember as a teenage!! Its fun but freaky! :D

lol kassie!! that is so funny.... kinda weird... are you thinking about going for any of them? :D

(PS i just found this thread... just thought I'd say that I'm not attracted to older guys at all, I'd much rather have someone my age. My bf right now is 6 days older than me, which is PERFECT in my opinion :))

I have found this to be true....men do look for women younger..maybe it makes them fell that they are recaputring htere youth..who knows...but lately from a woman's point of veiw men or age are sooo imature and not ready to commit so we look else where in older men so it kinda works out for both.

OOOOPH!!!!!!!! Did anyone get the license plate on theat stereotype?! I think I broke my spleen!

Ummm, I just proved someone's point didn't I? Aw, shucks!

Heh heh. Good one, E-boy! ;)

My experience probably isn't typical, but from late 20s on I have tended to attract younger men. My husband is 6 years younger, which I don't consider a very big age gap. (Sometimes he still strikes me as a child, but I think that has more to do with his silly sense of humor than with his age. ;) ) Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I don't consider myself an adult, and I was afraid an older man might expect me to act like one....? :eek:

Topic? I don't think older women are out of the running for a mate, although it may take them a little longer to find a good one.

When I was 21, I refused to see a guy who was 19 because I was too "old" for him. At that time, I had a baby and responsibilities so I really was older in experience. It felt like a chasm at the time. Then at 23 I saw a man 15 yrs older than myself and enjoyed feeling appreciated as a "young thing", but also found him to be a great friend.
Not sure where I'm going with this, but maybe whether or not we accept an age range relationship depends alot on where we are developmentally. If someone has taken alot of responsibility at an early age (had children while young, or had younger siblings to take care of, or they work in a high-responsiblity job etc), they seem more mature.
To me right now, the ten years between 29 and 39 yrs old does not seem to be alot. Now the 10 years between 20 and 30 are vast. Am I making any sense? After the age of 40, we are all officially grown up anyway!.

Kassie,

My youngest brother David (ADHD, ANXIETY, MANIC DEPRESIVE) married a woman 5 years older then him. Mellissa is a "normie". They have been together for 10 years happily married for 9. They have 2 beautiful boy's (ADHD) and a lovely new daughter.

They are incredibly close; because, they counter balance each other's fault's and insecurities. Were my brother has trouble focusing (bills,cleaning, etc.) Mellissa takes over and makes sure bills and such are kept done. Were Mellissa is incredibly shy and quiet never speaking up for herself. My brother is outgoing and very defensive of his wife.

YES they fight; but, at the end of the day it comes down to they love each other, accept each other's faults and work together as a TEAM!!!! TEAMWORK TEAMWORK is what makes a relationship or breaks it.

I pray this gives you hope and courage to keep trying.
Praying for you, Cherity

Part of the reason men like younger women aside from the visual (which reveals immaturity, so take it as an indicator) is that older women commonly have this tension to them, that they're constantly evaluating everything we do, say, wear, etc. in judging us as possible lifemates, are we marriage material, etc.

This leads to the "job interview" feeling when we're on a date with someone like this. And that's no fun. Younger women tend to be more in the moment, able to just accept a relationship for whatever it happens to be without having to constantly be evaluating it.

Try instead to make yourself someone dateable and desirable, and tell the guy you don't want to get married on the other hand, and he will desire you like crazy. It's working for my girlfriend.

But, is it wise to start any relationship out on a lie?

Actually a force of good, I think you are on to something. I act so young for my age and that draws a guy in. But then when they meet my kids, I'm chop liver

Then the guys aren't worth your while.

I married a woman who already had a kid. The experience has been... educational.

Know what? Im in the midst of a divorce and have been doing some re-evaluating of me and my life. I find that I havent the energy to expend on whether or not I can MAKE someone like me, i havent the time or the inclination. I did all that stuff, i did the say this and he will say that stuff, i did all the what do you look for in a woman, all the what do i want in a man. The bottom line for me is, we havent the faintest idea . I am me, you wanna date me? excellent. You dont or find I have faults? Tough cookies, because Ive got some news for you, it isnt important to me today. Im darn near forty and I havent time for games, they wear me out. I wear out easily today and I make no apologies for that, i didnt get to be this age because i wasnt once younger...stupider...less original...less ME. I made it this far, no way will I revert back to who i was when I was 20 so some one else feels ok with themselves.

Chrissy- Perfect, that was perfect!!! :)

Originally posted by Nucking_Futs
But, is it wise to start any relationship out on a lie?

If you think I meant lie when I said take the attitude of not constantly evaluating every relationship in terms of it's probability to lead to marriage, I guess I didn't communicate that well enough.

My point was that in constantly evaluating, you defeat your own purpose, because you set up a situation where someone feels they need to show qualities they think you think show what they're looking for.

Which means that you're not seeing the real person. Which invalidates the evaluation. Which is no fun for either person, and is a whole lot of work, for nothing.

So since it's so utterly pointless, is it any wonder why guys are turned off by this perfectly womanly crazy trait?

I used to have a roommate who wanted to deeply discuss everything. At first it was cool, because you don't get meaningful discussion a lot in Los Angeles. But after a while, I got to dread it, because it meant I couldn't even veg out and watch tv without having to have a discussion about how the jack in the box commercial was so symbolic of the military/industrial complex or whatever. Kind of the same thing.

Also, on a completely different note, younger women don't constantly compare us (as much), their current boyfriends, against previous ones. It's like we have to pay for someone else's sins, and that really blows. Don't do it.

eeek I'm sorry force I am sure I would have realized what you were saying had I read the post a little closer. I completly understand and as a big girl can admit I was wrong. I am sorry for jumping to conclusion's about your moral character and yes I believe you are absolutly right on this one.

No, problem, like I said, I don't think I communicated my point clearly enough- the real message was kind of "between the lines".

I was reading your post and I will say this... I have also joined e-harmony partially because men on other sites have such concrete age restrictions that it is hard to date anymore. I am in my 30s, have never been married, no kids, I'm in shape, educated, employed, etc. When I'm out men talk to me. On-line I get screened out due to the age limit. I'm not taking about men wanting women their own age, I'm talking about men wanting women 10-20 years younger!!

When I was younger older men asked me out all the time. I said no because I was dating men my own age. Sure bimbos said yes, but that's their problem. Older men have always wanted younger women. We didn't cause this, it's called NARCISSISSM!! Healthy well-adjsuted people want people they are compatible with. That means in the same stage of life, similar values, etc. Men on dating sites consistantly lie about their ages, use really old pictures (when they still looked good). I can't tell you the comprimises I've made to continue dating. It doesn't have a *($&#ing thing to do with having children. I do not have children, but I am prefectly capable of having them. It is simple narcississm, older men want younger women because they view them as trophies to show off to their friends. I get messages from men who are old enough to be my father!

Edited by Admin. Please read the Forum Guidelines (http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=75) before posting again in the forums.

Catsmeow.. I believe what the administrator is saying is.. you can post..you just cannot do so to upset someone.. ie, being inflammotory.

If you are unclear about something, you are welcomed to PM me. Flaming other forum members is against forum guidelines.

I am interested Kassie how are thing's going now?

Kassie, this may be posted a little late....however, I will let you know that I have been separated now for like 4 years. We cannot afford a divorce yet, but we told everyone that we were. My ex blames me for the debt we are in of course. It is and was my fault for everything....me and my best friend, ADD. I say he couldn't deal with my intelligence and charms! Ha!

Anyway, I met a really nice guy who is just like me. But he is more disciplined which I need desperately. He is funny and we have a lot of laughs about our forgetfulness. He is a cancer and I am a pisces. We get along great!

My ex was a gemini and his energy made me crazy among other things.....but don't give up, they are out there! My ex and I remain friends and that is as far as it goes. The many astrology sites I have been to have all said pisces and gemini is a mix to avoid. I see that now! My ex is dating a girl (libra. They are supposed to get along with gemini), but she is 5 years his senior. He is 42 and she is 47.

From now on, I am going to look into dating my sun sign match. I have never dated a sun sign match for me. This is the first time and I am here to tell you, I have never been this crazy for someone before. I swear to it. It is just way different. I don't want to say he is my soul mate just yet...but it may be a possibility. Good luck!

The only guys I've known that were looking for younger women weren't looking to have kids. They were looking for sex.
I knew I guy who, at 40, thought he was having a serious relationship with an 18 year old. When I asked him what they could possibly have in common... all he could offer was.. "the sex is great!".

Being 46 years old the only women that would interest me are my age or older. Of course, I have sons that are in their 20's so being with any woman in her 20's would be like being with my daughter, sort of. And if it was anything but plutonic or on a professional level for work I'd say.... YUCK! Relationship? Not gonna work....

The "I want to have kids" reasoning is a pretty lame excuse for not comitting to a relationship that actually has a snowballs chance in hell of making it. Any guy that thinks a 40+ year old woman isn't capable of having kids is living in the stone age!

Oh yeah, my youngest is 3 years old and my wife is now 43... do the math!

Now, if you wanna start the discussion about whether we'll have the energy to get out of bed when she is in High School?:D

We could take the subject out of all of these posts and substitute anything else, like maybe choosing a flavor of ice cream. What you get will sound a bit like the Three Stooges hiding under a bed, speculating on what might be making the strange sound. (Sorry, I don’t mean to insult any stooges with that…)

The thing is, we’re all talking about our lives, a really important part of it, too. So why is it we can’t hear the tone of what we write?

This stuff usually sounds like superstition, the kind of thing that your mind makes up when you don’t see what’s causing a problem. Are Kay and I the only people to recognize that? It was an important realization early on in our lives together; sometimes it was the only thing that could get us past a problem.

I don’t mean we figured out what was going on, either. We just knew that the ideas running around in our heads (and all of our friends' heads) about male-female relationship issues had to be bogus.

To us, it’s like trying to do the Price is Right thing, for fun, about something neither one of us can see. Quick, there’s a present hidden in the closet of that house over there, which we’ve never seen before this instant. How much did it cost?

Any answer to that question is based on random noise, and sounds like it. Just like this thread sounds. Knowing that we must not know why we acted and felt certain ways kept us thinking about the problem and working on it for more than thirty-five years. We just hate knowing we don’t know; it’s an ADD thing.

We did figure some things out about it, so we know (for example) that the real reason that a guy says he wants to date a younger woman is least likely to be what he says the reason is. We also know why males and females don’t know the reasons for what they’re trying to do, and that the male and female reasons are totally different.

But there just ain’t a magic bullet for this one, I’m afraid. I know all about why lots of little things happen. But I’m also saddled with understanding Jimmy Swaggart, and knowing that his behavior probably wasn’t so hypocritical after all.

He might seem dumber than a whole bag of hammers, but he isn’t. He was just too serious about some of the same kinds of things that we’re talking about here, and he thought he could figure them out using his stock in trade.

I am in no way knocking religion or the Bible as a source of comfort and personal philosophical inspiration. It’s just that the higher understanding one gets from them is about other things, like most other sources of personal wisdom. Specific about things like moral stance, and being firm in the face of doubt and temptation, and staying the course even when the tide is against you.

All of which I believe Jimmy Swaggart did. The problem is that none of it provides an actual description of what we’re working with, so there’s nothing to apply the wisdom to. And if you keep staring at it hard enough, you can start to make out patterns in the noise, and they start to look like Real Things That Can Be Dealt With.

Only it’s still just noise, and the things you see in it are illusions. That’s what Jimmy Swaggart was doing, I believe. I believe it simply because it’s easier to believe, even if the idea that we really don’t see what’s driving us seems far out.

So it ends up being complicated. If I can see Jimmy Swaggart’s actions in a benevolent light, you better believe that I think everyone here is trying their best to do things right. I’m sure that the guy in Kassie’s original post was acting in what he thought was a completely fair and moral way, at the time. By now, he may have changed his mind, and might wonder how he could have been such a boneheaded fool.

We guys find ourselves thinking that sort of thing a lot; the world of men is divided into those of us who don’t do dumb things to woman, and those who admit it.

I can’t offer much hope for a change, because even if you change, what we’re talking about requires another to complete the set. And there’s nothing you can do about that. (grin)

But it really helps to notice that we all act like we don’t have any idea what’s really going on, and then realize that we actually don’t. You just can’t get as mad at yourself, or anyone else, either, and ramping down emotion is always a step in the right direction. And you might end up figuring some of it out.

Stabile,

It's funny that you brought up "noise". I was just thinking that most of what we encounter, especially in the realm of emotions, usually ends up being and generating a lot of "noise".
I generate it just as well as anyone else.... it's no wonder I like to listen to loud music a lot.... it helps drown out all the rest of the noise!

So, does that mean that opinions are just "noise"?
Uh, er.... maybe that should be left for another thread.... I don't want to hijack this one. :uhh:

Too late, too late...

What is that thing from that John Ford movie? "We don't need no stinking badges..."

Oh well. We call it social noise, and it's one reason that undiagnosed (or untreated) men get agoraphobic in their late thirties / early forties.

By the time I was forty-two I couldn't go to a movie theater; I lasted about five minutes. Malls were a constant challenge. And I knew what the problem was. I didn't use any medication at the time because I didn't really need it to work or at home.

Once I started meds, the whole thing disappeared again, just like I expected.

And the link to the thread is that almost all of the social noise is about male-female posing, posturing and general yoo-hoos.

FightingBoredom wrote:

‘The only guys I've known that were looking for younger women weren't looking to have kids. They were looking for sex.’

I think you are only telling half of the story. Here’s what I mean. I started internet dating a few months ago. I limit my searches to women 25-41 old. (I’m 36.)

I set my lower limit at 25 because I figure that by the time someone is 25 she is fully an adult. Any younger than that and she’s a ‘Lolita’ and of course the relationship is all about sex.

My upper limit is 41 because the seniors I drooled over when I was in 7th grade are now 41. I always prayed that one of them would go out with me so if God wants to grant my wish now, 24 years later, who am I to say no? Any older than that and you are getting into Mrs. Robinson territory. Like Lolita, a relationship with Mrs. Robinson is purely physical.

This is not to say that I won’t date a Lolita or a Mrs. Robinson but I don’t seek out that sort of thing. If it happens it happens but I don’t go out of my way to find it. When I am looking for something long term I stick to my age range. I just don’t see Lolita or Mrs. Robinson as marriage material.

In my opinion women have as much to do with the whole ‘men want younger women’ thing as men do if not more. Dating is controlled by women*. GENERALLY, the women who agree to date me are usually between 27-33 years old. My theory is that by the time a single, childless woman reaches that age she has established herself in a routine careerwise and she starts thinking about having a family. I am willing to date the 25 and 40 year olds but I guess they are looking for something else. See what I mean? They are in the driver’s seat, I’m just along for the ride.


*Yes, there are exceptions please don’t flame.

No flames, I promise. But this is exactly what I meant when I said it ends up being complicated.

When Penultimate says women have responsibility for what goes on, he’s talking about the stuff that we all have inside of us. Not some specific woman, but the operation of those universal things inside her. Even if he feels like he can relate it to a specific conversation with a particular individual, it’s still those common primitive drivers doing the talking.

Of course, they only operate in concert with his version of those things, and so we have frustrated female forum members saying men are responsible. And they’re both right, although I personally give a bit more of the credit to the men.

That’s exactly what I was trying to address; those exquisitely detailed low-level mechanisms that operate without us seeing them. Some of them go back hundreds of thousands of years; if there actually is a woman responsible for the things we’re discussing (and I doubt it), she lived back then, not now.

We don’t see these things operating, and so we make up all of this stuff to explain the results. A lot of the standard explanations were in place long before we were born. But in my mind that just makes them a kind of urban legend.

We ADDers have begun to see these things, and I know that contributes to the confusion. We hold the power to unveil the truth, and put the urban legends to rest for good. Isn’t that perhaps why we’re all talking about it, here?

So lets do it. All it takes is the nerve to say, “I don’t understand what anybody’s talking about, and I sure don’t know what the heck is going on.” It’s not that hard, really.

You should try skimming what we’ve all said here; it sound like dialog from some low comedic farce. And that’s us being as sincere and open as we’re able. No wonder things get misunderstood, eh?

It all has me confused!! But, I have always enjoyed older men more. And generally older people male or female. Older men know more likely where they are going or want to be. They talk about more interesting things than most younger men. My last short lived infactuation bored me the second time I saw him. He was younger.
It all about reproduction, whether we know it or not, want kids or not. Many men unconciously are attracted to Younger women. As they are more likely to bear more and healthier children. And women more are often attracted to older men. They are generally wiser and therefor more able to protect us our families our lives and thus our ability to reproduce-survival of the species.

But... Then what happens as I am 40 and a lot the men10ish years my senior seem less than appealing physically, or are on the verge of big health problems. It kind of changes things for me as I still find most of the younger men immature. Basically I don't mind pot bellies or loss of hair a problem. But sometimes the package looks rather old as I still think of myself as a kid.

I find it discouraging when I meet a great guy who wants a very young or just younger woman. But I don't often have that problem as I am still pretty much attracted to older men. Just seems more younger men, the older I get. I often don't even realize I am older until we talk. Then I try to keep an open mind.

I've already elaborated some very good solid reasons why men desire younger women so I won't repeat them, but I will say this-

I have learned a few things in my life, and one of them is that whenever you make a sweeping generalisation, most of the time you're wrong.

So those who would ascribe men's desires for younger women to one motivation are only fooling themselves. It is similarly a mistake to automatically assume that these desires for a younger woman are bad or the result of some weakness or fault in the man.

This is not to say if you're an older woman you're undesirable, it is meant as a helpful reminder that if you have the NEGATIVE QUALITIES of older women (even if you're young) then THAT is what's making you undesirable.

"I have learned a few things in my life, and one of them is that whenever you make a sweeping generalisation, most of the time you're wrong."

Bingo.

Hi Kassie,

To answer your question, "do men only want younger women"? I want to tell you a few things, what I want to tell you will start horrible but it gets much better. A few years ago a Spanish man pursued me, so eventually I thought I would take the offer up. Then he discovered my age and that I had a small child. He told me that he couldn't continue with the relationship any longer because his family would not accept him going out with a woman 15 years older than him. I sobbed for two days. After that and other incidences like that I decided that I would never go out with an older man, because I want to give them a taste of their own medicine. I had a wonderful boy friend from Morocco who was six years older than me, I left him because he started to age. He did wait for me for 10 years hoping that I would change my mind, now he is married. Men seem to be scared of an number greater than theirs. They feel that what is expected of them is to have a younger wife, because family and friends will be more accepting of that. They also like to dominate women and they feel that younger women are more malleable.

Beauty has no age, whilst spending one month travelling around the States I noticed the most beautiful woman I met was 46 year old from Virginia, and she was a natural beauty. In fact Kassy men age quicker on the whole than women, men loose 1% their collagen in their skin every year women don't lose any until 52, the menopause years. Women have a later physical peak than men and we live 5 years longer on average, so I think it is in women's interest to take a younger husband. Talking of which you are not too old to have children. Professor Roger Gosden the author of "Cheating time" wrote a letter to me saying that the best age for women to have children, well at least sociologically is between the ages of 30-50 years old, which makes a good age for women to start their families at forty. My mother had me at forty and she conceived very quickly. My best friend is pregnant at the moment and she is 41 and a lady who used to live down the same road as me thought that she was going through the menopause at 50, she wasn't, she was pregnant. To tell you the truth I know more women who have had kids in their forties than in their twenties. I am forty-two and I want to start a family soon and guess what I want a younger man because men's fertility also drops with age.
More good news, I did my M.A on the abolition of the menopause which will happen in the future, and then men can not say that they want a younger woman in order to have a child.

As for your not so nice male friend, I hope he dose met a younger woman and I hope also that either he or she can't have a child because that will teach him. Just because a woman is young it dosn't mean that she is fertile. A woman of forty can be more fertile than a woman of twenty it is an individual thing it just so happens that on average fertility goes down with age.

I also feel that men are accepting of a woman if she looks young as if a woman is some kind of status symbol. Whilst travelling though the States I met lots of men aged between 29-56 and guess what, the man I am still in contact with is the 29 year old, in some ways he was the most mature, just because a man is young that dosn't mean he is immature. I also want to say that men take younger women because it is the norm at the moment, but go back to Feudal Britian and Shakespeare's wife Ann Hatherway was 8 years older than him and it was more acceptable then for a woman to have a younger man. However good news again, where I live the couple who live in the flat above me the woman is 12 years older than her partner, also the woman who lives in the flat next door is 15 years older than her boy friend. One in four marriages the woman is older, and in the 30s and 40s age range one in three women are married to younger men and its on the increase.

I think we women should treat men in the same way as men treat us and then they will realise how stupid they are always taking younger women when there are plently of older beautiful women out there that perhaps they are more compatible with and that they are ignoring.

Hope these comments were of some help to you,
regards melanie

I have been learning about this very topic in class. We just discussed a study that was done on preferred age difference in mates in 37 different cultures. In every culture men preferred younger mates and women preferred older mates. In all 37 cultures men placed greater value on physical attractivness, health and relative youth of prospective mates because those things tend to be associated with her reproductive potential. In 36 of the 37 cultures women placed greater value on earning capacity and their ability to provide for a wife and family, since age and income tend to be linked among men.

One more thing.....I'm surprised that so many people think her friends comment was so rude. If I were her I would appreciate his honesty. His statement has nothing to do with her and everything to do with him. He knows or thinks he knows what will make him happy, so who are we to judge what he wants for himself? Yes, he is over generalizing but that is his perception.

Well, he has a goal of a younger wife... so in his case it is very much true.
I think he could have been nicer to you.... people are so selfish.. <g>

As I see it....
I think men see younger women as available, but I don't think younger women are preferred....at least that is how I feel about it. I do not like women older than me, and I never did. I do know guys who prefer older women. I think you hooked up with the wrong guy. Pick someone who like you as you are, and not for what you can do for him (like having babies for him). Kids are optional and too damn expensive, in my opinion.

Me :D


I was excited today. A friend of mine, who I had a little feelings for (We've known each other for 14 years), invited me to go to a our city's local hockey game. I haven't been to the new center (My old company worked on the construction aspect of it) and I was curious to see what a hockey game is like and the new building. We get there and have a blast. He even hugged me when every one had to hug the person next to each other if a camera focused on you. I was thrilled.

On the ride home, he said he had something important to tell me. I asked what and he told me that he signed up for e-harmony ($50 a month, $100 for three months). I just looked at him puzzled, I laughed and asked why hasn't he asked me and he said "I'm looking for someone younger than me, not my age or older" My mouth dropped open. I thought I heard wrong.
He saw my confusion and quickly said. "Kassie, I love you but you have to know. You are almost 40 and I want two kids. You are too old and I know you 've been looking for someone but you will be hard pressed to find someone your age for they will want kids too and what can you offer?"

I'm crushed.

Is this true?

It all has me confused!! But, I have always enjoyed older men more. And generally older people male or female. Older men know more likely where they are going or want to be. They talk about more interesting things than most younger men. My last short lived infactuation bored me the second time I saw him. He was younger.
It all about reproduction, whether we know it or not, want kids or not. Many men unconciously are attracted to Younger women. As they are more likely to bear more and healthier children. And women more are often attracted to older men. They are generally wiser and therefor more able to protect us our families our lives and thus our ability to reproduce-survival of the species.

But... Then what happens as I am 40 and a lot the men10ish years my senior seem less than appealing physically, or are on the verge of big health problems. It kind of changes things for me as I still find most of the younger men immature. Basically I don't mind pot bellies or loss of hair a problem. But sometimes the package looks rather old as I still think of myself as a kid.

I find it discouraging when I meet a great guy who wants a very young or just younger woman. But I don't often have that problem as I am still pretty much attracted to older men. Just seems more younger men, the older I get. I often don't even realize I am older until we talk. Then I try to keep an open mind.
I think many of us don't feel our age. I'm 46 and still run and ride my bike like I always have, but not many of my peer group do the same. I feel what you're saying in finding younger guys desireable, but here's my personal opinion.

As a general rule, I have always found women to be much more attractive in every aspect at 40 than they are at 20. Of course this depends on her lifestyle and whatever, but IF all things were even, it's true for me. Hell, women aren't even cool until somewhere between 35 and 45 years old depending on the person. It seems as if women become cool, or at ease with themselves, all at once in their 30's or 40's. Suddenly one day, a woman sees herself as we see her, simply beautiful. Her hair is not too straight or too curly, her butt is not too big or too small, her boobs are fine, she's not too short or too tall, or any of the other 80 million things women do to themselves when they're young. Suddenly, she's just right. She's at peace. Then fellows, watch out brother because here it comes.

I've observed this since I was a child and no one seems to see it but me for some reason. The sad thing for my fellow brethren, the unfortunate thing, is most men wear themselves out chasing and marrying 20 year old women who don't know who they are or what they want just yet, they're just young and physically attractive. So, he's chasing and she's running away. Suddenly 20 years later she quits running and he's stopped chasing years ago and it's no fun for anybody.

Girls, take it from me.....trying to get a thing going with way younger guys won't work. You won't be happy. The education level and thinking patterns are totally different. The other day, the girls who work for me had no clue who J.F.K. was on the anniversary of his assassination. What's up with that?! Sure, we see middle aged or older, successful business guys dating the little hatchlings all the time. Those guys are blind. They're lying to themselves and following society rather than their heart. Pity.

I've taken too much of y'alls time now. Besides, my amp is all warmed up now at 3:49am so it's time for me to rock. Can you believe my neighbors have been rudely sleeping peacefully through the night?!! I simply cannot have that. I'm thinking maybe some April Wine or Stray Cats stuff tonight. heheheheheheee I am sooooo going to hell.....

Zippy

I like the attitude, Zippy! whew, I read the whole thread(just found this today)...well, some interesting perspectives, that's for sure! are any of the original people who started this thread still posting on this forum?

my opinion on all this.... people choose who they like and don't like..maybe they are younger, maybe older...I like both! I used to live with a very beautiful older hispanic woman(she turned out to be a beautiful PSYCHO!) she was 37, I was 32. I have also had girlfriends a few years younger than me. I prefer older woman, but now that I'm 36, and singlem it seems the older the woman, the more issues/"BAGGAGE" she has..a couple of divorces, kids, etc...so, I'm currently trying to meet woman my age(well 35) and younger(to about 27). I figure I only have a little more time, before I can still get woman in there 20s, without kids and have by some miracle never been married, and most importantly SAIN, not INSAINE! finding SAIN woman has been tough, that's for darn sure!

Goodnight

I like the attitude, Zippy! whew, I read the whole thread(just found this today)...well, some interesting perspectives, that's for sure! are any of the original people who started this thread still posting on this forum?

my opinion on all this.... people choose who they like and don't like..maybe they are younger, maybe older...I like both! I used to live with a very beautiful older hispanic woman(she turned out to be a beautiful PSYCHO!) she was 37, I was 32. I have also had girlfriends a few years younger than me. I prefer older woman, but now that I'm 36, and singlem it seems the older the woman, the more issues/"BAGGAGE" she has..a couple of divorces, kids, etc...so, I'm currently trying to meet woman my age(well 35) and younger(to about 27). I figure I only have a little more time, before I can still get woman in there 20s, without kids and have by some miracle never been married, and most importantly SAIN, not INSAINE! finding SAIN woman has been tough, that's for darn sure!

Goodnight
Responding to the first paragraph, I'm glad you enjoyed my little meandering. It was meant as light hearted muse. As to your question, I believe a great many people starting threads no longer post here. I think old threads are left here because time doesn't make them any less relevant for you, me, and the rest of our little orchestra on this site.

Most women with whom I've had a substantial relationship, but left because I thought them unstable, have been diagnosed with one thing or another. Typically, the problem was alcoholism. Of course, I've contributed to my share of injecting unhealthy offerings into a relationship as more than one woman can attest. Besides insanity from one or both of the parties involved, I've a different viewpoint on marriage.

My MD told me people of similar diagnosis to mine often question the validity of traditions or what I would call social "givens". I just try not to repeat things that don't seem to be working. I think marriage CAN work, but I'm also saying in general it doesn't. I don't care about pointing fingers of blame as that's such a waste of time and makes no one happy in the end. I just think marriage is not working well and society would do well to analyze and evaluate this tradition. I will stop and re-evaluate my assessment on the day more people tell me how much they love their partner than how much they detest their partner.

On this and many other topics, the fact that mainstream society views our behavior as disordered is almost laughable.

Take care and have some fun today.

Awww, I'm sorry that happened! :(

Well, yes, as many people have already said, there are tons of men out threre that don't just go for women younger than them.
You'll find someone perfect, who won't toss you aside just because of their desire for a younger woman. Yeah, you'll find someone better. Well I better stop talking since I probably don't know what I'm talking about. But I hope everything turns out wonderfully for you!!!

You are too old and I know you 've been looking for someone but you will be hard pressed to find someone your age for they will want kids too and what can you offer?"

I'm crushed. Is this true?


Kassie,

I only read the first post.......no time to read the whole thread..........my two cents:

Dont let this discourage you. There are lots of children in need of adoption and foster homes. Keep your chin up and keep looking...........you'll find a match. Maybe you should try e-harmony as well!

Dont forget how much better off your body will be if you dont have kids......when his 30 yr old wife turns 40............chances are you'll look even better (and youll be 50). Childbirth and the stress involved with children takes its toll on the body! :eek:

Best of luck to you!

mel007 says that there are other reason why women should take and marry younger men. There is a form of dementia which occurs much earlier in men which is caused by little stokes. So why marry a man who ends up with dementia a few years later.
However the real reason why women should marry and take younger men is because if you take the world as a whole for every 100 girls born there is 106 -108 boys born and the equilibrium between the sexes doesn't happen until men and women reach 50, before 50 world wide there are more men and after 50 in most countries except for some aisian coutries there are more women after 50. So, go for were the surplus is, more you men, more older women. I disagree with the person who says that most women in 36 cultures wanted older men and men wanted younger women all my female friends say they like younger men. The more economically independent a woman is the more likely she is to want a younger man. Women only married older men in the past and in some socieities today because they are not economically independent. I have an M.A in social science so I have studied these attitudes.

mel007 says that there are other reason why women should take and marry younger men. There is a form of dementia which occurs much earlier in men which is caused by little stokes. So why marry a man who ends up with dementia a few years later.
However the real reason why women should marry and take younger men is because if you take the world as a whole for every 100 girls born there is 106 -108 boys born and the equilibrium between the sexes doesn't happen until men and women reach 50, before 50 world wide there are more men and after 50 in most countries except for some aisian coutries there are more women after 50. So, go for were the surplus is, more you men, more older women. I disagree with the person who says that most women in 36 cultures wanted older men and men wanted younger women all my female friends say they like younger men. The more economically independent a woman is the more likely she is to want a younger man. Women only married older men in the past and in some socieities today because they are not economically independent. I have an M.A in social science so I have studied these attitudes.
How can there consistently be more men than women under age 50? Using America for example, in the four years of civil war 500,000 men died. Most of these were quite young. I realize at the time the mortality rate during child birth was astronomical with some estimates at 20%. Is that what brings things back in balance, or off balance after 50 as you state?

I like a sexy woman

:D

I still like sexy women :D

I was excited today. A friend of mine, who I had a little feelings for (We've known each other for 14 years), invited me to go to a our city's local hockey game. I haven't been to the new center (My old company worked on the construction aspect of it) and I was curious to see what a hockey game is like and the new building. We get there and have a blast. He even hugged me when every one had to hug the person next to each other if a camera focused on you. I was thrilled.

On the ride home, he said he had something important to tell me. I asked what and he told me that he signed up for e-harmony ($50 a month, $100 for three months). I just looked at him puzzled, I laughed and asked why hasn't he asked me and he said "I'm looking for someone younger than me, not my age or older" My mouth dropped open. I thought I heard wrong.
He saw my confusion and quickly said. "Kassie, I love you but you have to know. You are almost 40 and I want two kids. You are too old and I know you 've been looking for someone but you will be hard pressed to find someone your age for they will want kids too and what can you offer?"

I'm crushed.

Is this true?


good god .. an emphatic NO

hes just got his mid life.. ohh my god i'm getting old .. i need a good young woman on my arm so everyone can look at me crisis a few years early.

I'm in my 30s, and most women my age are already married. The only eligible ones are much younger, usually in their mid to early 20s. Not really a preference per se, just a matter of neccessity. Furthermore (warning, controversial opinion coming here) most women my age that I meet don't seem to be as adaptable/open to a new person in their life as those 10 years younger. They're used to being single and 'set in their ways' and seem more reluctant to get involved with someone whose life doesn't exactly parallel theirs. Women my age also seem much more cynical about relationships. Not that I blame them, I can relate somewhat. At least that's been my perspective.

As far as I know, the mean age difference in couples decreases the less women have to look for someone who protects and feeds them.
The difference is thus highest in some African countries and lowest in Sweden, as in Scandinavia in general.
In Germany, the mean difference is now 2-3 years. I do not really know the earlier figures. But at least in southern germany (still very conservative) the percentage of marriages in which the woman is older or at the same age has risen.
Often, only wealthy men marry a younger woman. When partners come from very different social classes, women are usually older than their partners.

--> Maybe the social status outweighs the age ????

what are we talkinga bout

It's in response to the first post on this thread. But it's been a while and 8 pages later. Still, fresh input is not discouraged.

Not all women date older guys in their younger years. Personally, I'm 22 years old and dating a guy who's... 22. He's older than me, alright... by less than a month. The vast majority of my friends are dating guys who are the same age as them; the rest are either single or good at keeping secrets.

Due to some confusion because this thread started in 2003, I have closed this one and will start a new thread regarding this subject. Thank you for visiting.