The Dore Programme does work well with some dyslexics including myself but I can't comment on ADD / ADHD.

The science behind it and similar systems like learning breakthrough is reasonable. The cerebellum and vestibular which control balance can be underdeveloped in people with learning difficulties. Through exercise these areas are stimulated and do develop resulting in better physical and mental coordination.

The main difference between Dore and Learning Breakthrough is that the exercise programme is personallised and updated every six weeks after an assessment. This is why it costs significantly more than Learning Breakthourgh. Both programmes require a long time, at least 6 months, of use before their effects really start showing.

How is the program working for your son? I am very interested in learning more about people's experiences with Dore.



14th May 2005
My son has had behaviour problems at school and has delayed speech. He is now 7.5 yrs old. Tantrums & not waiting his turn. Also failing to complete tasks.

He has been in Speech pathology for 2 years, & has been diagnosed in the Austism Spectrum, though I have my doubts myself...or perhaps I am a overprotective parent. Everyone wants to label "our" children it seems.
You couldn't "pick it" by looking at him. He does not display the classic symptoms of the disorder & I will not have him on any medication.

I have just been through the Dore assessment yesterday with him and observed all the diagnostic tests. I must say, that if the tests are not a con, every child should do them. There does seem to be science behind it.

We started the excerises this morning. We are looking for behavior changes, and social improvements. His reading is above average for some reason.

We go back for a checkup in 6 weeks, where they compare the original baseline assements against new data.

Should be interesting....& yes..its expensive..$4500.00 Aussie Dollars
Here's Hoping..
I may update this for people's info as we go.

Hopeful Dad!original thread titled: Dore Achievement Centers

My son David has been on the Dore program for 10 months and we are so pleased with his progress, he was diagnosed as Dyslexic 2 years and we tried many things before Dore, just like most folk we were sceptical at first but decided to try this as nothing was working and its the best decision we have made because the changes are vast not only to his learning but for him, he is now a confident happy little boy who actually looks forward to going to school.

The thing that makes Dore work for us are the 6 weekly sessions with the counsellors, my son has fallen in love with his and she is delightful, the program and the measurements are scientific and you can see the changes on the computor printouts and the excerses are personalised, we know other children on the program and their excersises are very different from Davids.

I think the program works because of the specific measurements which identify the best excercises, I was told at the center that the wrong excersises could do harm as th could stimulate the parts of the cerrabellum that do not need the work so I am confident the measurements are acurate

At my last center visit I met a man with a 12 year old Dysbraxic daughter who been on the program for 8 weeks and she was back for her first assessment, he was telling everyone that she had learned to tie her shoe laces since doing the Dore program and this small thing was such a massive achievement for her and him

Maggie

Thanks for your thoughtful response to my inquiry. I am going for my first battery of tests on Friday. Please post updates on how your son is doing and I will post my experiences as well. Thanks again for taking the time to respond and share your experiences.

It sounds like a great idea and I'm interested as there's a centre in Brisbane where I live, but I'm worried about the costs

I know Hallowell in his book Delivered from Distraction really had good results for his son who has ADD and dyslexia. My impression from what I've been reading is that it seems to help some folks quite a bit and others not. We'd like to try it, but since it seems like a bit of a crap shoot as to whether it will work or not, I don't know. We don't have several thousand extra dollars laying around for an experiment I'm afraid.

Scattered

I have tried both my sons on this treatment, one has ADHD the other ADD. I found that with the core behaviours of ADHD it helped a small amount but found it most helpful with the anxiety my adhd suffered from. The down side is it is very expensive.

Currently trying my youngest on the learning program but it is too early to tell whether it has had any significant effect on him. The ADHD son has no significant learning problems but just has great difficulty keeping focused and on task hence he takes slow release ritalin. I hate giving it to him but it seems the only thing that really helps him have tried virtually every alternative around! I've told him that once he feels able to cope without it we will try him without it. The youngest son has learning problems although he is quiet at school that is why I've gone for the learning program.

I am Adhd myself and have long suspected my husband is too. I'm on medication as well which I dislike taking but am awful without it!!

Still searching for a solution for my two boys, myself and my husband but have seen that works for one ADHD person does not necessarily work for another. I am a little wary of things that promise the earth now as I have had experience of them not working and costing an arm and a leg.

Until these various treatments can definitely analyse the adhd person in such a way to conclusively prove that their treatments will work for them it is very much trial, error and good luck.

Hope you all have success in your search for alternatives and I will keep you up dated with my youngest ones treatment.

Keep up the good work.

Janep

Hi,

I took my youngest to his Learning program, the lady conducting it confirmed something that maybe of interest to you all apparently a some add/adhd children do not fully loose their baby reflexes. I found this most fascinating as my eldest one who is ADHD was part of a study at the University of Western Australia and they also found that a lot of his baby reflexes were still there. The researcher at UWA said that they had found that the majority of the cases they were studying had infact still had some of their baby reflexes and as part of her research was looking at how exercise could help them loose these reflexes.

The learning program that Adam is on doesn't just deal with the cerebellum but deals with the whole child so that hopefully any baby reflexes left will be dealt with. Another thing that I knew already and the therapist confirmed that Adam has poor tracking of his eyes which makes it very difficult to read and write easily. This can be another problem that ADHD and ADD people suffer from; I know I do.

Have I noticed any changes in Adam? Well he has been going for about a month and I have noticed little changes but whether from the treatment or from him maturing a bit I don't know. As this program is very much cheaper than dore I will continue takig him and let you know if this works for him. I tend to be rather skeptical of alternative treatments now although originally I was very naive and assumed what they were telling me was correct. As I said I will keep you informed about Adam's progress.

All the best

Janep

Hi Everyone.

I've been reading this thread and the DORE websites with great interest, I've noticed that opinions are vastly different and thats because everyone is different and probably responds to treatments differently.

I personally want to check the DORE program out thoroughly before I pay any money or even think of doing the program, if the program's for me then I'll pay any amount of money just to improve my quality of life.

I've also read that the DORE centre's are in Australia and there's one in Brisbane where I live, so as soon as I get around to it I'll check it out.

I'd like to hear of people who've tried this treatment and have actually benefited from it.

Thanks
Selena:)

WHATS THE DORA CENTERS THEN IF YOU DONT MIND ME ASKING THANKS DORM

:(
Hi, i took my son yesterday to a dore centre and i feel i have been misled by them i thought i would get a diagnosis for my son ADHD and rule out anything else that they were looking for. To my disappoinment the doctor didnt want to label children and i am no further on in knowing whether my child has this or not. His behaviours have been to the extreme since he was 3 years old and i was desperate for answers. I paid the balance in full and i am hoping to get a refund. I was hoping some of you on the forum might have tried to get a refund or know anything about this. I feel really stupid for falling for this treatment but i was desperate for answers and hey the cure for my son like most mothers and fathers.

Hello all, I am a newbie posting here, but have been lurking for about a month gathering info. After much hem and haw, and a good relationship with Lady Visa, signed up my 13-yo son with the Dore Program here in Phoenix. I am hopeful. I have not experienced it as a sham or scam or scheme, or have been misled in any way. I did alot of research, and asked a ton of questions, and went to an open house where more parents asked more questions. What cinched the deal for me was knowing someone who had gone through the program here in Phoenix with great success. My son starts the eval on May 10.

We already had a psych eval so know where he stands on the ADHD (98 percentile), and realize that the Dore eval is not going to give you a foot to stand on as far as anything the school may require for a 504 or IEP or other modified educational program. But, it will find any other learning challenges that we have missed along the way, and deal with those. I plan on going back to my (independant) psych for a re-eval when done with Dore to see where my son stands from his psych baseline.)


DORM, to answer your question, the Dore Acheivement Centers program offers exercises that stimulate pathways in the cerebellum. Winford Dore from the UK, who pulled the program together, was a wealthy businessman who's daughter was very dyslexic and attempted suicide 3 times because of her challenges. Mr. Dore brought researchers, experts, studies that have been around for years and developed this program. The "program" is new, but the philosophy, science and exercises have been around for a long long time. There are other programs that are similar, and less expensive, but you are on your own, with no baseline established, you don't know which exercises to do out of the thousands, you are not monitored for progress, and you don't know when to start or stop the certain exercises you choose. Not a way we wanted to go. I took on a second job for a year to pay for it.

I will continue to post with progress, and am very willing to share info along the way, so just ask if I don't cover it. Of the 19,000 folks that have been through the program, there is very little in feedback on forums such as these. I assume no news is good news, and that they are busy living their lives. :)

I am amased at some of the scathing comments re DORE in this forum my son is dyslexic and been on the program for quite a while and has made very good progress, at the centre we attend we meet folk who have ADHD and are on the program with simular results as us..

I can only think that the people who try this and fail are not folowing the exercises in the right way or supervising their children, I spoke to one parent a few weeks ago who has weaned his son off Ritalin whilst he has completed the program..

I also feel the regular reviews are essential because not only can you see the benefits in the personal tangable results but this also allows you so see the measurement scientifically which is very uplifting and motivating..

By the way it took a few months to see us to see tangible benfits but my son said he felt happier almost from the word go..

Maggie, my son is about to start the program, and is worried that it will "change him." Bless him, some of the meds we tried took away his happy, and he does not want to lose that ever again. Would you be able to say what if any changes in personality you have noticed with your guy? And, has your son noticed any changes himself?

David is more confident, he is definately happier and contented and I would say is building self esteem due to the fact that each time he goes for his assesment he is showing improvement.... His school have also noticed these changes as well and his teacher says he has become more active in class activities..

Hey gals! My kiddo went through the eval today. He came out as "borderline" meaning he almost didn't make it INTO the program. (Maybe it's just me!) But they found plenty to work on nontheless, and we got all the toys, and my 13-yo is just ecstatic about getting to them! He loves the bean bags and the ball. This is going to be hard though, because the exercises are on a rotation, not the same ones every day for six weeks.

Bad news though, we have to take him off of the omegas which were helping so much. If Dore can accomplish what the omegas do, and kiddo won't have to take them all the rest of his life, that's a good thing. They said that the oils coat the new pathways, making them slower and more difficult to develop. And, they did not think we should do the crawling exercises either, which we started together on Monday. They might conflict with each other. My kiddo said he'd still help me with crawling though, so we'd both get better. The PT is going to check on the Miriam Bender crawling program and see if it would not conflict with what the Dore does, and get back with me for sure.

Also, Mr. Dore himself, is coming to our center for a meet and greet thingy, tomorow, so that should be very interesting.

And, they did not think we should do the crawling exercises either, which we started together on Monday. They might conflict with each other. My kiddo said he'd still help me with crawling though, so we'd both get better. The PT is going to check on the Miriam Bender crawling program and see if it would not conflict with what the Dore does, and get back with me for sure.
Hi CalicoRose,
Is the crawling therapy for ADHD?

Yes, I didn't go into detail did I? I'm posting on two forums, and forget.

The crawling exercises are from the book "Stopping ADHD" by Nancy E. O'Dell adn Patricia A. Cook, both Ph.D.s. Their program which is free, and can be done at home with a coach (family member) in 10 minutes a day, 5 days a week, for 8 months with progressive crawling exercises to mature the STNR reflex. If one did not crawl well, long enough, or correctly, this reflex does not mature, and causes symtoms of ADHD. Many people have been cured of thier symtoms by doing this program. I don't know if I have ADHD, but I have always been real fidgety, and VERY uncomfortable sitting, and many of us take on funny postures and postitions to be comfortable, like the "slacker" position with legs stretched out in back, or sitting on the feet tucked under the bum to force a sit, etc. Both parts of the body are not comfortable being bent, so one part will seek to be straight. Ive been doing them now for a week.


I had the opportunity to talk with some of the Dore people, including Wynford Dore, last night! The physician that was there stated that all of the baby reflexes are tested and dealt with, so I'm glad for that part for my son. He will also be getting a much more comprehensive program for his specific areas that need improvement.

We got all of his exercises and equipment, and started them tonight. I can also see the value not only in the exercises, but they are a great practice at listentening and following directions and instructions, as the exercises are not difficult, but they have to have correct posture, track the eyes without moving the head, etc. The are actually fun.

If anyone has questions, please feel free to PM me

CalicoRose-

I am sorry that I was not able to hear Wynford Dore when he was here in Chicago. How was he? I would have loved to hear about the current research that is being done on the Dore method.

I started the program in March and have high hopes. The first 6 weeks assessment was somewhat of a dude as it did not show a great improvement from the baseline test but I do see improvement in my coordination (and posture).

What other forums are you in? Do they relate to the Dore program? It would be great to hear about other people's experiences. All the best to your son and I look forward to reading about his progress!

Does the Dore method involve the Dore contraption which was discussed in this thread?
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27205&page=1&pp=15

This all seems like a bit of a stretch to me. ADHD is a developmental disorder. How can you increase the speed of the development of the brain by exercises of any sort? It would be like exercising the lips of a 4 month old with the expectation that they talk. The child will use words when it's brain has developed to a point where it can use words. Using that hypothetical situation, if you worked on the program long enough you would see measurable improvement in speech but not because of the intervention. Likewise, if you did the DORE system long enough you would most likely also see some improvement but one would have to question if it were because of the DORE system. The impairments of ADHDers will improve over time but typically at a slower rate then these attributes would improve in a "norm".

Scuro-

There is a growing body of evidence that shows new neural pathways can be developed in the brain after adulthood. Victims of car accidents who incur brain damage can rebuild the areas that were affected. The same with stroke victims. Through physical therapy, they can see results. The DORE is based on the same primus.

Mrwhiskers! I am so happy to see someone else here in support of Dore! Please keep posting right here and let us know how it is going for you. They did tell us not to expect much until after the first 3 months or so, and from what I've read from others, that's about right. It's nice to know that you are already seeing some positive changes.

I think it was Janeep earlier here who mentioned the baby reflexes. I had a chance to speak with the physician who heads up Dore in the US (maybe I"m ADD to, as I cannot recall her name.) But she said that it's something quite new for Dore to test for and address these immature reflexes, as some have not done as well as they had expected, and had to go back and readdress those reflexes first, then move on from there. I wish I had had my son do the crawling exercises first, which do address one reflex, then go through Dore, but they said it was alright that it would be addressed in the exercises he'll be given.

There is a lot of new information coming to the forefront, and I appreciate your bringing up the ability to develop new nerual pathways. The interactive metronome is another area of promise for ADHD (and strokes or other head injuries) as well, in this regard.

And, Mr. Dore was really very nice to meet and speak with. My son was expecting a celebrity, but instead just found a very nice, very genuine, caring (albiet stinky rich) father who never gave up on finding and getting help for his daughter, and wants to help as many children as possible with what he has pulled together. His goal is to get this program available in the schools. (Have the kids come into the nurses office to do their exercises instead of giving out ritilin, what a thought?) Even my son's counselor was of the same mindset.

I'll keep posting with our experiences right here

Scuro-

There is a growing body of evidence that shows new neural pathways can be developed in the brain after adulthood. Victims of car accidents who incur brain damage can rebuild the areas that were affected. The same with stroke victims. Through physical therapy, they can see results. The DORE is based on the same primus.

I dunno. ADHD is a problem of self control through time. I believe that the brain is plastic but I have no idea how DORE will improve self regulation, especially before the ADHD brain is developmentally ready.

Thanks for the encouragement 1kid2dogs! Keep me posted on how things are going and I will do he same:--)

well, I don't know..
I don't really have the capacity to way all this stuff up...
to dore or not to dore that is the question..
would love to hear some more concrete stuff

Mrwhiskers! I am so happy to see someone else here in support of Dore! Please keep posting right here and let us know how it is going for you. They did tell us not to expect much until after the first 3 months or so, and from what I've read from others, that's about right. It's nice to know that you are already seeing some positive changes.



I don't know about this product but I have heard that Feldencraiz Method helps people with serious conditions like celebral palsy, MS, etc. But that FM approach can change brain function.

I find that sometimes with a serious problem it can be more effective to take a multi-disclipline approach. Why just limit treatment to using one thing if you can use movement with say homeopathy and nutrition or diet, etc. These things can work together and will not interact with each AND do not have harmful side effects. And, of course, some psychology for behavioral issues.

Sometimes even minor lifestyle changes can help. I think it is always best to keep looking for something that helps even if it only applies to say one symptom, that is still something. There is no one panacea out there, so sometimes using different things that can compliment can work effectively, but takes more work (and money) to research all these things.

I understand the premise of the Dore approach and want to try it, its non-panaceaic nature and unproven status. What's stopping me right now is the, um, not-so-impressive staff I've encountered so far. With the first one (saw in person at open house), I thought, oh well, she just has some personal issues, doesn't know when to shut up, and isn't really that into the science side of it. Then a sales person from my parents' area called me. Good lord. She was even less professional than the first. I was going to pay up-front for 2 of my sisters to do the program as well, but if this woman would be their account manager, NO WAY. My sisters and I are in a LOT of pain with the ADD stuff, we all feel extremely vulnerable and raw around these issues, so there's not a lot of emotional energy left for being "evaluated" by flakey crumpets.

One thing that bothered me about both women was the emotionally manipulative, rhetorically flawed sales arguments they tried. It was pretty funny with the sales caller. She seemed to have a canned approach, and when my interests and objections didn't fit what she was expecting, she was stumped and went back to grabbing for prefabricated answers to questions I didn't have. Of course, her mediocrity (both in sales and in clinical interviewing) has nothing to do with the actual approach of the Dore treatment program. Still, it's not something I want to deal with.

I'll still visit the centre nearest to my sisters and see if they can get their evaluations and supervision done by someone more competent than the two I've been unlucky enough to see/hear from so far. For now, I'm optimistically presuming that the peripheral staff isn't a fair guage of the quality of the actual treatment program.

Clarity, I am so sorry about your experiences with the staff at the center you were at! I would think that for the amount of money we are putting into this, they can have competent staff and be able to answer your questions to your satisifaction. Everyone at the center in Phoenix that I have encountered has been all of professional and very well able to answer some pretty tough questions, both of myself and from other very intellegent parents at the open house.

I do think that you are right, in that the quality of the program itself, and the evaluation and the physican's input would not be comprimised by the intial experiences you have had so far. If you have a chance, try to meet the therapists who will be working with you and your sisters, as after the evals, this is the key person you will be working with. I also was not real impressed with the person I spoke with at the initial call. Yeah, prefab all the way.

Please let us know how it's going for you and your sisters if you decide to carry on with it.

the dore sales lady came to my house this morning, she was nice and genuine, she did kind of just go through the script and told some of her story and she did'nt know awnsers to a few questions. I am feeling quite positive about dore and think I will try it.

Loversinc, if you do decide to Dore, would you please join us with your experiences with it? Is this for yourself or a child?

When I went to their open house, and the first evaluation, the ones I talked to were able to answer all of my questions. However, I also had an awsome rep who came to my house. She did not know some of the answers, but by gosh she went and found out and got back to me the next day. She was awsome. Maybe if you write them down and take them with you, you will be able to get them answered there.

How's it going gang?

Here's our update:


I have made a turnaround in my son's therapy. After I signed him up, I was doing tons more reading and researching and question-asking. My son also has a good profile for having an immature STNR reflex (I have a thread going about that one here also if you want to read more about it.) So much more information came to me after he was signed up, so I called my son's Dore therapist and asked her if we could take a hiatus (even though we just started a month ago) to do the STNR exercises which take 6-8 months. She was supportive, but thought that the Dore program would also address this. I just wasn't convinced since studies have been done that show maturing after doing 6 months of straight STNR exercises. Dore does some of those, but not six months straight, and intense, as they should be done to correct this reflex. She did say that we could pick up where we left off, no problem, within the 6 months. I'm doing it this way, so that the Dore program will be as effective as possible, since it addresses neurological developments that ocurr after the age of 2, when those baby reflexes should already be matured. If they are not, it might be like building a house on sand. Just woudn't be best. So, we are both crawling now! It's hard, both doing the excersises and each coaching each other as well. He's such a great sport, a 13-year-old guy crawling with his mum.

I'll continue to post on our progress, but I may not have much to say until about 3 months down the road. I have much faith that after the 1 1/2 years it will take to complete both programs, he will be relieved of a great deal of his symptoms.

On a progress report as far as Dore, I do have to say after even a month into it, I am seeing him starting to think things through, like think ahead more. This has always been an issue for him, to plan and prepare. It's really a weird change because he's not in school right now, it's summer vacation! But he really thought well ahead this past week, and he was packing for camp. I just did not have to prompt him, did you do this and pack that. He had it all done (for the most part, including the roll of toilet paper for TPing at night.) Since he had to do the exercises at camp, he even went through his book and reviewed the one's he'd be doing there, and got all of his gadgets together! That just blew me away. It's been showing in other ways too, not just for camp. It's a great improvement.

not much news... have sent the cheque to start the dore program.. its for me... and have yet to have my first appointment.. i will keep u all posted on the progress. what might also be of interest to those in the uk is that I'm going to try and get social services or the nhs to pay for it.... should be fun!

1kid2dogs, does Dore issue a refund to people who decide to put the treatment on hold or do they keep your deposit?

Welcome to the club, loversinc! Let us know how your eval goes, and if you have any luck with assistance. Here in the US, they said the physician's fees could be attempted, depending on the insurance coverage one has. Mine would be out of network, and I have a high deductible. Towards the end of the year I'll give it a go.

Imnapl: I did not ask for a refund, and I don't think they would anyways. I'm putting on hold for the sole purpose of my son being in better shape to accept the changes implemented with the Dore program. They do have in thier contract, if no improvement is noted after a period of time (I forget the time frame) they would refund. But I understand that even folks who do not need or qualify for the program, but who are just interested in it for sports improvements or such, do indeed improve. So, if one did not do well, it would be most likely a compliance issue.

Hi, 1kid2dogs, my nephew is 7 yr old and joined the Dore Program for nearly 2 months. He does improve a little bit but it's hard to tell. My question is: Do you think that he can do the Dore and the STNR at the same time?

Thanks!

Hi Beseem! Welcome!

Your nephew is just at the age that Dore starts taking children. It will be interesting to watch how he does. They say to wait about 3 months before seeing changes is about typical. As far as doing the STNR exercises, BOTH programs recommended NOT doing them at the same time, as both build neural pathways, but differently. It would be too much, is why we took, a hiatus from Dore to do the STNR ones first. And, there's not a lot of information out there that would suggest even doing it this way, the STNR first, then Dore, it's just other's experiences that have made me consider this.

Would you keep us posted on how your nephew does?

I am going to get my second 6 week evaluation on Monday. This will include my first OMT (eye movement) test after the initial evaluation. It will also include the postography test (balance). I hope to have some good results to report back. I have been in the program now for about 3 months.

As I said, we "feel" improvements on him and don't want to stop Dore now. But he does has STNR problem. I will ask Dore on 14 July appointment.

Sure I will keep you posted on how's the progress.

Cheer.

Hi 1kid2dogs,

Thanks for your reply! I'm glad to hear that you're actively doing what's most helpful for your son.

I seem to have 'stumbled' onto help somewhat resembling the dore approach. I had 6 or 8 physical therapy sessions for neck problems, then it was time for more active physical exercises. During my first introductory training session in the exercise room, the therapist/trainer noticed I was having non-standard issues with balance and coordination. She asked if I was too tired for that exercise. When I said that no, that was typica for mel, a flash of recognition went across her face.

She's working on her doctorate and spends half the week in a center developing specific exercise treatment programs for people with head injuries. Her professor has apparently had a lot of success improving function in patients with developmental disorders.

She had to finish showing me the exercises for my neck problem, but worked in a few wobble-board exercises and at the end took non-paid time to show me a few brain-focused exercises to do at home. She hesitated a bit and said this wasn't anything resembling a work-up and treatment plan, but I was SO happy to hear some hope and get some concrete steps to try.

Just in the first week, I noticed an improvement in my comfort and confidence on the road.

Tonight the monitor/trainer was a physical therapist I hadn't seen before. At first she was pretty gruff and grilled me on why I was doing the balance stuff if I had neck problems, but when she saw how much "non-standard issues" I'm still having, she softened a bit and showed me a few more balance exercises.

Sure, I'm not being tested on NASA-controlled equipment. Nor do I have pre-printed self-evaluation charts. But right now I'll be very happy if I make significant progress. And Mr. Dore is first and foremost a businessman, so some aspects of his program seem very clearly designed to sell.

Hi Clarity! That is so cool, and thanks so much for sharing, that is VERY interesting, and that you notice a difference already from something you were not even expecting! Dore does use the balance board too. It's actually hard to do! But you are right, you are doing a no-frills version of sorts, and why not? If you are getting a great benefit from it. I know about the sort of therapy that is done for head injuries and strokes, so I also believe that those neural pathways can be developed in a "healthy" brain also, to good benefit.

My son was doing the Dore, but we are taking a hiatus to do the Bender program for the STNR first. We are actually both doing the crawling exercises. We are into week two. It's really hard! But, we are hoping to acheive the same sort of thing as you are.

Do write up from time to time and let us know how you are doing and the improvements your are developing with what you are doing there. I'm very excited for you!

My son was doing the Dore, but we are taking a hiatus to do the Bender program for the STNR first.
Yeah - I'd gone back through your post history to get a picture of what you were up to, and that's what I meant by you actively choosing what you feel is best for him, rather than just going with prescriptions.

This morning I was able to choose an outfit spontaneously (normally I have to plan out an entire work-week's outfits on Sunday) under time-pressure, and I even looked really good. In a totally new combination, no less.

Good news. I went for my second 6 week evaluation on Monday and the tests showed significant progress! I was really worried because my first 6 week eval did not show any improvement. If I test well in the next eval, I will move into "mental tasks". I was told that this is a big step up and that people really start to show improvment when doing these. I am very encouraged and reenergized about the program.

The Dore website asserts that they "assess precisely the function of the cerebellum. If we find that the cerebellum is not functioning as well as it should, we offer a highly-structured, prescribed program of exercise-based activities designed to continuously stimulate the cerebellum during the treatment."

Yet I cannot find a description of how they go about assessing cerebellar function. Is it through MRI scans? Is there a set of symptoms which indicate cerebellar dysfunction, and if so, why do they feel that certain clusters of symptoms are corellated with cerebellar dysfunction, and how would we differentiate between an underactive, overactive, and normally active cerebellum, either via imaging scans or symptomatically? They mention a "Dynamic Posturography" balance test, but they do not mention how these results would differentiate a neurological cause from an inner-ear cause from a neuromuscular cause. They mention only that "special equipment" isolates the various input sources.

They mention an optic test without describing how they would control for astygmatism, optic nerve damage, or other neuromuscular issues involving the eyes.

What is extremely disturing is that when they describe these tests, there are no citations which point towards evidence of the validity of the tests. I am not saying that such evidence does not exist, but it is strange that they would make such claims and descriptions without any citations. Surely if these diagnostic tests were backed by solid evidence, as they claim, they would wish to cite it when making these claims. That is standard medical practice.

Finally, it has been asserted that the Dore program can build neural pathways. Does anyone know where I could view an image showing new pathways eing uilt?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but these are fairly important questions. These are the basic criteria which would apply to any potential treatment. The Dore program has a fiduciary responsibility to provide this information to potential patients prior to treatment, as this information is necessary to make an informed judgement regarding its effectiveness. The Dore program chose to make these specific claims; they therefore have the obligation to provide evidence to support their claims.

This is not just criticism, mind you, it is also part suggestion. If the Dore programs do not address these issues, they create potentially serious legal liability issues. Leaving aside the risk of a fairly toothless FDA imposing administrative sanctions, there is a very real risk that they could find themselves party to civil litigation, which could potentially be very costly even should they prevail. If I were the executive director of this program, I would be on the phone to my legal counsel as soon as possible.

Well Hyperion, I hope you never havea a stroke, because I doubt that you would want to receive treatment for it for the same reasons you state above. It's the same kind of therapy and I don't see anyone beating it do death. It's just standard accepted therapy.

Errrrm, don't you think that's a bit of a non-sequitur? If I had a stroke, I'd want the appropriate treatment for a stroke. If I want to treat ADHD, I'd want the appropriate therapy for ADHD. You may as well assert "let's use dialysis for ADHD patients, and if you object, I hope you never suffer renal failure, because it's the same kind of therapy they'd give for that."

I think that you may have misunderstood my objections there. I went to the Dore program website, and I read several claims, and I had some questions regarding those claims. Specifically, I was curious about their diagnostic criteria. I am not familiar with these techniques, and they do not seem to provide any citations for them, which would explain the exact procedures involved, as well as the evidence for their validity. This is fairly standard practice with regards to most medical treatments

If you feel that I am in error, then all you have to do is provide the information which I said I could not find. I asked a few simple questions, basic questions which I felt were not answered on the website, relating to specific claims which the Dore program chose to make. If it turns out that this information does exist, but simply was not on the website ecause of space or bandwidth or artistic design reasons, or if I was simply looking at the wrong page, then all you have to do is tell me where to find it.

I don't see the need to take such a sarcastic attitude simply because you dislike my questions. I'm planning on meeting with the (disease name witheld for confidentiality reasons) Association in a few weeks, and I fully intend to ask them similar questions with regards to their suggestions for clinical practice guidelines. I can guarantee you that if they were to answer in a manner similar to yours, they would be asked politely to leave the office.

You ALL might find some of the answers you're looking for in some books or articles by a scientist that specializes in sorting fact from fiction in the field of clinical practice. His name is Scott Lilienfeld. I heard him talk at a conference recently and was very impressed.

His newest book is due out in October: "The Great Ideas of Clinical Science: 17 Principles that Every Mental Health Researcher and Practitioner Should Understand"

He's also written or edited some good books available now: Science & Pseudoscience in Clinical Psychology, Seeing Both Sides: Classic Controversies in Abnormal Psychology, and Navigating the Mindfield: A User's Guide to Distinguishing Science from Pseudoscience in Mental Health among others.

If you aren't up for an entire book there are several articles he's written available on Amazon.com that specifically address issues discussed on ADDF.

"Should we disregard psychotherapeutic approaches that are not backed by solid scientific evidence?" (PRO & CON): an article from Clinical Psychiatry News

"ABC's 20/20 features segment of 'goggle therapy' for depression and anxiety" an article from Skeptical Inquirer

"Should we disregard psychotherapeutic approaches that are not backed by solid scientific evidence?" (PRO & CON):
There's a con position? What did they do, interview a phrenologist?

There's a con position? What did they do, interview a phrenologist?LOL! :D

I haven't actually read this one, but I'm going to!

"Should we disregard psychotherapeutic approaches that are not backed by solid scientific evidence?" (PRO & CON)

Thanks! I'll check this out.

I think there are indeed some "cons" to disregarding unscientific approaches.

In my case, I get the premise of Dore, but don't buy that their approach works as precisely as they claim. Their "sales" people managed to un-sell me. But learning about Dore still got me to look at what I can do physically to help my mind. My physical therapist has cautioned me not to get too excited about the improvements I'm seeing - she says that what I'm seeing right now is probably just 1) a result of getting back into physical activity at all and 2) the same kind of improvement anyone would see if they started doing coordination exercises. She says that any genuine improvement will take a while.

Often, non-scientific approaches give a structure that patients wouldn't otherwise have. In religious communities, belief in prayer supports a very structured network of support when something's wrong.

I had my initial assesment at dore yesterday and have signed up for the program. Luckily for them I have a strong intuition and i follow it, i believe this is a good principle to follow with regards health... so far it works for me!!
Why i say luckily for them is because it is a poorly run show! terrible sales people! awful information! not great customer service... dis-honesty.
They really need to get there act together because they put so many people of with there claims!! marketing... sales pitches... etc..

thing is having done lots of my own research and following my own intuition I am convinved that the dore program will have a postive effect on my life.. if all it does is help me with coordination and eye tracking, that will be good.. but I'm sure it will help with more than that.

One of the biggest mistakes dore makes, similar to lots of people that find something really cool... they think its the end... its the be all and end all..
kind of like religious people or capitalists..

we must mostly all know now that there is never just one awnser, and that we must'nt judge people by appearances. Like the dore program looking like a sleazy money making scam!

we must mostly all know now that there is never just one awnser, and that we must'nt judge people by appearances. Like the dore program looking like a sleazy money making scam!
Quite possibly the single funniest thing I have read all day. Actually, I think your whole post is great, very Steven Colbert-ish.

I have read the post here and appreciate all the information and personaly testimonies shared. I have two children who are both ADD/ADHD, they are 13 and 9. The 9 year old also has sensory integration problems, is pulled out in school for speach as well as Occupational Therapy.

I have recently come across DORE and was interested in the program, however, it is very expensive times two children. Also, the nearest center is approx. a 4 hour drive from my home.

I have also heard on this site about the Learning Breakthrough Program which I understand to be similar and at a much reduced price. I would greatly appreciate any personal testimonies anyone has, success or otherwise about this economic alternative to the DORE Program.

Thank you.

Hi Newbie! I've done some reading on the LearningBreakthrough program, but have not come across anyone who has actually completed it, or been able to testify as to it's effectiveness. There's a lot of interest in it though. The Dore program actually uses some of the same philosophy. What I've come across is that it does leave the participant on his own, without much direction or motivation, or tracking of progress. Which, is why there is not much compliance with actually completing the program. Dore individually develops each program to the individual's needs. Learning Breakthrough can't do that, so you are a bit blind as to what to do for what issues. There is the Brain Gym program too, which I have heard some good things and results with, better than the former. The only testimony I have heard from is from the Dore center, which is one of the many reasons why we chose it. It is pricey. Good luck with your decision.

What happened to the post that was here earlier today? A newbie posted here (not Newbie2006) which included a link to a webpage of a different treatment program? Or did I dream that? I had tried the link earlier today, and my internet went down and did not see it. What's up? Now it's gone??

I have also heard on this site about the Learning Breakthrough Program which I understand to be similar and at a much reduced price. I would greatly appreciate any personal testimonies anyone has, success or otherwise about this economic alternative to the DORE Program.If you want to truly help your children, and the rest of us, please don't feed money into an industry that is simply out to scam you.

It just leads to more of the same.

The best thing you can do for your children is listen to their doctor and educate yourself about the disorder and truth behind the scams.

I have also heard on this site about the Learning Breakthrough Program which I understand to be similar and at a much reduced price. I would greatly appreciate any personal testimonies anyone has, success or otherwise about this economic alternative to the DORE Program.

You can find lot more details of Dore on my website including background science and criticism. There is also an interview with Wynford Dore that I did based on questions sent in from readers so that might help answer some of your queries.

Having been through the Dore programme for my dyslexia and tried aspects of the Learning Breakthrough my opinion is that you get what you pay for. Dore is expensive but is personallised where as with Learning Breakthrough you need to put more time and effort in yourself.

Both probably work to the same extend and both are 100% dependent on doing the exercises everyday, day in and day out. The hardest part of either programmes is the amount of dedication needed to do this. Unless you are 100% committed to do them, and to do them for months without any obvious changes, then both programmes are a waste of money.

If you want to truly help your children, and the rest of us, please don't feed money into an industry that is simply out to scam you.

It just leads to more of the same.

The best thing you can do for your children is listen to their doctor and educate yourself about the disorder and truth behind the scams.What evidence have you got that Dore is a scam?

There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that the cerebellum is a problem in ADHD. There are also plently of first hand accounts of sucessfull treatment using Dore (including my own).

Wynford Dore has invested millions in 27 clinics around the world. This isn't a scam. Dore 100% believes in what he is doing.

How effective the Dore programme is at treating ADHD is another question. Dore claims a 90%+ rate for those people who complete the treatment but his drop out rate, by my estimate, is at least 50%.

It is clear that Dore works for some people and is sold as a genuine way of helping people.

It is also worth remebering that Doctors perscribes medications based on drug trials paid for by the drug company. The drug trials for Ritalin lasted only a few weeks (six I think) yet Doctors are perscribing medication on the expectation that the patient will be on them for years.

The side effects, possible long-term health issues and the fact that medication doesn't treat ADHD, it only reduces the symptoms, are all well documented.

The Dore approach is a long way from perfect but neither are doctors or the drug industry.

Chris, I remember reading on your site a long while ago, a conference where the speculation was about the STNR reflex and the Dore program, needing to address the immaure refelxes first. This is exactly what I am doing with my son, as he fits the profile of having an immature STNR. We are in week 5 of the Bender program. Faithfully, every day. I was a bit shocked to see you thoughts on the Dore program retention rate, which is terrible considering the amount of money they put into it. It is a huge committment. HUGE!

I am very happy to see you here on this forum and voicing your ideas about these two therapies. We really need more support.

What evidence have you got that Dore is a scam?
First, the burden of proof is not on me, it's on Dore.


There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that the cerebellum is a problem in ADHD. There are also plently of first hand accounts of sucessfull treatment using Dore (including my own). First, cerebellar contributions to the disorder are not well understood.

Second, anecdotes do not qualify as knowledge or evidence for many reasons. Methods have been discussed at length in ADDF, but the best way to learn about how knowledge and evidence are developed is to take a basic research methods course or pick up a decent book on the topic (I've posted lists of recommended reading in other threads if you're interested).



Wynford Dore has invested millions in 27 clinics around the world. This isn't a scam. Dore 100% believes in what he is doing.My friend's cousin's grandmother believes 100% that she has psychic abilities. That doesn't make her practice of taking money for "readings" any less of a scam.



It is clear that Dore works for some people and is sold as a genuine way of helping people.I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. It is NOT clear that Dore works for some and investing in such pursuits often means using the only resources available for real treatment.



It is also worth remebering that Doctors perscribes medications based on drug trials paid for by the drug company. The drug trials for Ritalin lasted only a few weeks (six I think) yet Doctors are perscribing medication on the expectation that the patient will be on them for years.Again, misinformation.

The FDA may approve medications based on such trials, but it's wrong to assume that a Doctor's reason for prescribing medications is anything but individual.

Drug companies certainly do pay for and conduct some trials, but they do not pay for and conduct ALL trials. There are many independent studies, particularly on long term effects, of medications like Ritalin.

A GOOD doctor considers all the evidence, not just the trials sponsored by the manufacturer.


The side effects, possible long-term health issues and the fact that medication doesn't treat ADHD, it only reduces the symptoms, are all well documented.The word "treatment" is, IMO, misused here, but nobody claimed that medication cures ADHD. These facts are not in question. There is no "cure" for ADHD. There's no cure for the common cold, either, but that doesn't stop people from seeking relief from symptoms.

The effectiveness, reliability, and risks of medication are IRRELEVANT in this discussion.

By your logic, I should throw out my antihistamines and eat cumquats because some guy believes 100% that cumquats will cure my runny nose.



The Dore approach is a long way from perfect but neither are doctors or the drug industry.Nobody is claiming doctors or pharmeceuticals are perfect.

Science, however, says they are leaps and bounds ahead of quackery in treating ADHD.

What evidence have you got that Dore is a scam?
Well, there's the fact that they don't cite a single one of their claims, and that there is little or no independently reviewed evidence for their claims.

There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that the cerebellum is a problem in ADHD. There are also plently of first hand accounts of sucessfull treatment using Dore (including my own).
non-sequitur. You are correct to note that some researchers have found ADHD kids to have slightly smaller cerebella. It is not known conclusively what role (if any) this difference plays with regards to ADHD (whereas differences in some other areas have been linked to some ADHD symptoms such as inattention). However, the logical fallacy here is that there is no evidence that the Dore programs can:

A: Correctly diagnose cerebellar dysfunction and distinguish it from other causes
B: Successfully treat cerebellar dysfunction

And this is even before discussing whether or not it can successfully treat ADHD in general.

Wynford Dore has invested millions in 27 clinics around the world.
As has the Church of Scientology. That he has invested millions in these clinics is fairly irrelevant as to their effectiveness.

Dore 100% believes in what he is doing.
A double fallacy:

A: Calls for speculation as to another man's mental state. We do not know whether Mr. Dore truly believes in what he is doing.

However, I could grant you the benefit of the doubt, except that

B: Whether Mr. Dore believes in what he is doing is completely irrelevant. It is entirely possible to believe 100% in one's actions and be incorrect. The Puritans believed 100% that the men and women executed in Salem were guilty of practicing witchcraft.

How effective the Dore programme is at treating ADHD is another question. Dore claims a 90%+ rate for those people who complete the treatment but his drop out rate, by my estimate, is at least 50%.
Assuming that your dropout estimate is correct, this would give a 45% treatment rate. And that's if it is only 50% dropout rate (you mentioned "at least"). That Mr. Dore claims a 90% success rate, while the actual rate is closer to 45% is a fairly good indication that this is a scam.

It is clear that Dore works for some people and is sold as a genuine way of helping people.

It is? I think it might be more correct to say either:

"It is clear that some people believe that they have been helped by Dore."

or

"In my opinion, based on the fact that some people feel that it has helped them, Dore is a genuine treatment."

Of course, I'd have to ask if that was a personal opinion or a professional opinion. By professional opinion, I mean that there are third-parties who would pay you money to give them that opinion in writing along with your data.


It is also worth remebering that Doctors perscribes medications based on drug trials paid for by the drug company. The drug trials for Ritalin lasted only a few weeks (six I think) yet Doctors are perscribing medication on the expectation that the patient will be on them for years.
It appears that you may not understand how medications are approved for use in the United States of America. I cannot speak for other countries (although most Western industrialized nations are similar), but in the US, yes, drug companies pay for the testing of their drugs. Unless you would like another 20% of your paycheck to go to Uncle Sam, then trust me, you want it this way. What this means is that if a drug fails out (and they do, quite often), the drug company is stuck with the bill.

However, the part that you failed to mention is that these studies are independently reviewed by the FDA, which is a federal government agency. There are very strict standards for this testing, and lies, delierate misstatements, or other chicanery is considered a federal crime for which those involved would face very long prison sentences. After three or four phases of testing, the FDA may decide to approve the drug, provided that it is shown to be reasonably safe (that is, the risk of using the drug is less than the risk of failing to treat the condition, which is why chemotherapy is held to a different standard than drugs to treat toenail fungus), and if it is shown to be effective in treating the problem. The drug is then approved for that particular use, although physicians may prescribe it for other reasons if they have good reason to believe that it may be helpful. However, the drug company is only legally allowed to advertise the drug for treating the purposes for which it was approved.

Of course, I find it hilarious that you mention drug companies funding their trials, which are independently reviewed, while failing to mention how Dore funds its own, non-independently reviewed "research," and that the Dore website, which appears to be the only source for information on this subject, is quite clearly not an impartial source. I'm not saying that these things alone would completely destroy their case, just that I find it amusing that you look at what drug companies do and ignore this issue completely with regards to Dore.

The side effects, possible long-term health issues and the fact that medication doesn't treat ADHD, it only reduces the symptoms, are all well documented.
Of course, the irony is that the side-effects, long-term health issues, and the question of whether Dore treats ADHD, or even reduces the symptoms, are not well documented at all for the Dore treatment. Do you see the irony here? You believe that these things are liabilities, when in reality having documented evidence is a strength. It lets us know, for instance, that people with certain cardiovascular issues may wish to avoid certain medications.

Oh, and just so you know: I consider it a good thing that medication alleviates the negative symptoms without "curing" the ADHD-ness that gives me my creativity. I don't think that I'd want a permanent "cure" for something neurological in origin (unless it was something like epilepsy, of course).

The Dore approach is a long way from perfect but neither are doctors or the drug industry.
"Well I may be, but so are you." Real mature. Here's the thing, I know that doctors aren't perfect. Hell, I was on the phone with a physician today explaining some things to him and answering questions. However, I know that I can call a physician into my office and ask him to explain the evidence behind his actions. I know that a physician whose actions harm a patient will face serious consequences. I know that drug companies are regulated so heavily that the only way you could get more invasive would involve a proctologist and a colonoscopy.

Chris, I remember reading on your site a long while agoChris also posts articles like:
Stim Nation: Ritalin and Cocaine Addiction (http://www.myomancy.com/2006/05/stim_nation_rit.html#more)


1kid2dogs, not my idea of a reliable source of information for parents. :confused:

On the other hand, I appreciate people who notice questionable business practices.
Dore Deceptive and Abusive Advertising (http://www.myomancy.com/2006/01/dore_deceptive_.html#more)


http://www.myomancy.com/2006/01/dore_deceptive_.html

Chris also posts articles like:
Stim Nation: Ritalin and Cocaine Addiction (http://www.myomancy.com/2006/05/stim_nation_rit.html#more)
1kid2dogs, not my idea of a reliable source of information for parents. :confused:Out of curiosity, what is it that you object to in this article?


Chris

Hyperion / Barbyma

With regards the Dore / Scam comments, I largely agree with your comments. However the word scam means deliberately setting out to deceive people for money. The point I was making was that whatever faults Wynford Dore may have, I'm 100% sure he is not running the centres to deliberately defraud, rip off or generally abuse his customers. Of course he may be 100% wrong in his science but that doesn't mean he has any ill-intent or devious purpose behind it.

Unproven, unreliable and expensive is a valid way to describe the programme. Calling it a scam implies criminal intent and I think that its inappropriate to ascribe that to any person without good reason.

Moving on to medication. The point I was making (badly by the looks of it) was that Dore can be justifiably criticized for their limited research data however so can the long-term prescription of stimulants. The short-term data I'm 100% happy with and there is no doubt that medication works at relieving symptoms in most people. However the long-term impact is little known and some of the evidence points to potentially serious damage. Yet drug companies encourage doctors to prescribe for months and even years. Yes, this criticism can be leveled at Dore but have you any data that suggests a mild exercise programme is bad for your health?

The Dore attracts a lot of negative opinions and I think this is mostly because he is brash and very good salesman. Personally I wish he would be more reserved and more scientific in the way he marketed his company because this reaction to the man and his company obscures the real debate about the role of the cerebellum in ADHD and dyslexia.

Out of curiosity, what is it that you object to in this article?


ChrisThe title, for starters.

The title, for starters.Its an article about three scientific studies on cocaine addiction and Methylphenidate. As most people know Methylphenidate as Ritalin its appropriate to use the words Ritalin, Cocaine and addiction in the title.

The phrase 'Stim Nation' was used because this post was part of series of articles, all entitled 'Stim Nation', about the use of stimulents and their effects.

I could of given it a different title. Something like "An examination of three papers on coca derived crystalline tropane alkaloid and Methylphenidate" but no one would of read it.

There are people who want this sort of information. In the last thirty days eight or so people have visited Myomancy because they were specifically looking for information on Cocaine and ADHD, Ritalin or Strattera.

I hope the information on Myomancy was useful to them and allowed them to make better decisions about their treatments.

I could of given it a different title. Something like "An examination of three papers on coca derived crystalline tropane alkaloid and Methylphenidate" but no one would of read it.Is this responsible journalism?

There are people who want this sort of information.Why?

In the last thirty days eight or so people have visited Myomancy because they were specifically looking for information on Cocaine and ADHD, Ritalin or Strattera.

I hope the information on Myomancy was useful to them and allowed them to make better decisions about their treatments.Not very many responses in that period of time. I frequent sites with a more open attitude to treatment and reliable information. All of them are very active.

Tis the biggie question here!

Chris also posts articles like:

btw-I dis-like the title of this article and I have yet to read the article = must do the dishes and cover the compressor after this post!

I think that you may have misunderstood my objections there. I went to the Dore program website, and I read several claims, and I had some questions regarding those claims.

Meadd823 scratches her head, and wonders if Hyperion thought to ask the makers of the Dore WEB site these same questions. The people at the Dore clinic may have an answer well I am thinking they would be the most appropriate ones to ask any way.

But learning about Dore still got me to look at what I can do physically to help my mind.

Dore aside, exercise buttttt exercise brain after all, they are connected. There is plenty of scientific evidence to back that one up. . . .go ahead just try to think with your feet or wash dishes with your brain . . . . .


I would greatly appreciate any personal testimonies anyone has, success or otherwise about this economic alternative to the DORE Program.

I do not know about the specific Learning program you mentioned but if you can’t afford the Doer program and I have read it is expensive could you afford to have your two children take martial arts classes. I am not kidding here martial arts is excellent for ADD children actually it is excellent for just about any one ADD or not. Most effective due to the combo effect of mind / body exercise! A good instructor will train the mind right along with the body, no better treatment out side of the standard medical practice in my opinion!

I was on ADD medications when I began martial arts; by the time I had reached the point where I was performing in demonstrations I was cutting my medication doses in half. I have severe ADHD with “H” factor!

There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that the cerebellum is a problem in ADHD.

All this time I have been told ADD was a frontal lobe problem!

I know that drug companies are regulated so heavily that the only way you could get more invasive would involve a proctologist and a colonoscopy.

OUCH not a pleasant visual going on! :eek:

Okay procologist aside I thought we were supposted to be addressing exercise. Gluteal tightening by the mention of colonoscopy could be considered an exercise :p (shrug)

Its an article about three scientific studies on cocaine addiction and Methylphenidate. As most people know Methylphenidate as Ritalin its appropriate to use the words Ritalin, Cocaine and addiction in the title.

I have read your article of Ritalin and cocaine I have read your reference to which I have already typed a two page reply. I can not post it here. This thread is about exercise and Dore not cocaine and Ritalin!

I would love to challenge this accusation head on however this is not the appropriate forum for this type of discussion. This type of discussion belongs in the academic scientific discussion area not an area devoted to exercise. If the moderators of this area choose to split this thread up and place the latter half of this thread there in academic area then you shall see me again.

Until then I shall leave with this one little bitty point. If cocaine and Ritalin were the same chemical compound they would be the same thing. Remember there is only a one atom difference between gold and lead, which are definitely NOT the same thing!

~*~*~*Peace Out!*~*~*~

This thread is about exercise and Dore not cocaine and Ritalin! Fair point. I'm happy to carry on the discussion elsewhere if anyone has a suitable thread.

Chris

Fair point. I'm happy to carry on the discussion elsewhere if anyone has a suitable thread.

Feel free to begin a new thread, should a suitable one not already exist. This discussion sounds like one that will need a thread of it's own.

I would like to see the all the evidence you have behind the claim that Ritalin and cocaine are the same thing chemically. Your opening evidence to back up such a statement sounds like a good thread starter to me.

Best ADDF sections - Scientific / Academic area under general or General Medication under ADD treatments would be the most appropriate areas in my opinion.

at last something positive to feedback on with regards dore.
I've had a tough old time with terrible sales, poorly trained staff, lack of management, doubts of honesty.
So i complained.
It has been dealt with more than satisfactorily.
Having been passed on to the customer service lady who took me very serioulsy, she had a two meetings, one with head of UK finance and another with the UK Medical director.
I spent half an hour on the phone to the UK Medical Director today... he answered all my questions more than satisfactorily.
So I am definitely going to do it now, not only that but I am going to do what I can to help set the record straight a bit, to awnser peoples questions about it etc etc.
Dore have just finnished there first study of 1000 people that have gone through the program, its getting presented in the states next week and will be up on the site soon. It is very exciting for all of us.

The Englsih dore site is rubbish and will be changed very soon
the american one is better but is also being improved.
the organisatin has grown rapidly and there are definitely teathing problems... especialy with sales and marketing.

So i got a hotline now to the medical director.
I've read in this forum a lot of anti dore stuff.. I'd love to get some awnsers to that stuff.. and i'm going to get them.
to make it easier for me could any of you guys... especialy the particulary smart and well read ones amongst you.... give me one or two criticims of dore?
I really think its in all of our interest to find out if this is something that could help us all a lot.

thanks everyone.

love

robin

Questions:

1. How long have Dore Centers been operating?

2. Why are there no Dore Centers in Canada?

3. Does Dore reward customers for making referrals?

In the last thirty days eight or so people have visited Myomancy because they were specifically looking for information on Cocaine and ADHD, Ritalin or Strattera.
I wonder how many of them clicked a link posted here? I know I did and I was not, in fact, seeking info on any of the above to be honest. I was just clicking.

Crazy :cool:

Imnapl

(I did not mean to step on Loversinc's toes, if that is who you were waiting for an answer from, so I'll just barge in with my own)

1) First doors opened in England April 2000.

2) There are no Dore Centers in a lot of places. It's not McDonalds. They are established in the UK, Australia, US and New Zealand. They just "launched operations" in Africa. When I spoke with Mr. Dore and his reps personally, their mission was to continue expanding. I would hope Canada was on their list. It might be, you might check their website for their developments.

http://www.dorecenters.com/index.php

3) Not that I'm aware of. Should they? Does your doctor offer you rewards if you refer someone? Most don't, but the really thankful ones might send you a thank you card. :-)

So i got a hotline now to the medical director.Loversinc, I look forward to your answers to these questions:
Questions:

1. How long have Dore Centers been operating?

2. Why are there no Dore Centers in Canada?

3. Does Dore reward customers for making referrals?Edited to remove the Freudian slip? :D

I keep hearing about Dore. What exactly is their treatment approach. Would love to hear about it.

What is their mission/vision.
What is the treatment algorithm.
Are there any double blind studies.
What is the deductible/copay.
I always research everything I think may have the potential to help me manage my ADD. Drives my doctor crazy some days-other doc is OK and is cool with it. I have always been proactive in my medical care.

I would love a description of the method and know whether my insurance will pay for it. I am in America.

Thank you so much for your help. I look forward to learning more.

RADD there is more info HERE. (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27205&highlight=cure+add)

Courtesy of Finder of Lost Posts, free of charge as always, no thanks required.

Crazy :cool:

3) Not that I'm aware of. Should they? Does your doctor offer you rewards if you refer someone? Most don't, but the really thankful ones might send you a thank you card. :-)We have a public health care system in Canada and do not pay doctors out of pocket. Due to a shortage of doctors, many doctors are not taking new patients. Family doctors make referrals to specialists.

RADD there is more info HERE. (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27205&highlight=cure+add)

Courtesy of Finder of Lost Posts, free of charge as always, no thanks required.

Crazy :cool:
. . . and I thought my over-the-door pulley system was kinky! :D

. . . and I thought my over-the-door pulley system was kinky! :DI have a toaster oven I can loan ya!

Crazy :cool:

Imnapl, I apologize again then.


Raddmom, here is Dore's US website. My son is signed up and will start in December.

http://www.dorecenters.com/index.php

cer·e·bel·lum (sĕr'ə-bĕl'əm)
n., pl. -bel·lums or -bel·la (-bĕl'ə). The trilobed structure of the brain, lying posterior to the pons and medulla oblongata and inferior to the occipital lobes of the cerebral hemispheres, that is responsible for the regulation and coordination of complex voluntary muscular movement as well as the maintenance of posture and balance.

[Medieval Latin, from Latin, diminutive of cerebrum, brain.]

How does this tie into ADHD, please??

Crazy :cool:

1kid2dogs

Do you have to have been a Dore client to promote it? I am unemployed right now and looking for a job. I was reading about websites you can host that allow you to make money when people click on links or results in google searches. I think it is a neat service for businesses and sounds like good way to work at home.

I read that lots of business finds it a great, low cost way to advertise and I know of some other businesses that do it too. My last paycheck arrives next week. If you know anything about how to do this, pm me. Thanks. I appreciate the help. If it is so good for so many people I am interested in learning more. I sounds like you are really excited to get your son started.

RADD.

RaddMom, I'm sorry to hear you are between jobs, that's a tough one. I've heard of the service you are asking about, actually, on a local craigslist, but I don't know anything about it. To answer your first question, to promote Dore. I am not a client, and my son has yet to start or complete the program, and you see me here "promoting" it, because I know of a good number of individuals who have received positive results from it. If they are willing to pay the price and commit to the program, and overall it makes their life easier, less frustrating, or more enjoyable in any way, I am all for that, and that is what this program has done.

I'm not sure how that ties into your job question though...please let me know if I missunderstood, and you are welcome to pm me with Dore questions too. I'm happy to talk with you.

CrazyFeet, here is a good article that mentions the cerebellum in connection with ADHD.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20021012/fob1.asp

"The data reveal that several discrete brain areas were smaller in children with the most severe forms of ADHD symptoms, which include inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsiveness, than in kids displaying milder versions. These areas consisted of parts of the frontal and temporal lobes, the inner-brain region known as the caudate nucleus, and the cerebellum. Earlier, smaller MRI studies had primarily implicated the frontal lobe in ADHD.

"This study provides a new look at the developing brain in ADHD," remarks psychologist Carl M. Anderson of McLean Hospital in Belmont, Mass. Of particular interest is the possible role of the cerebellum in ADHD, he says. Research now suggests that this rear-brain structure, which is usually associated with coordinating motion and balance, aids in coordinating thoughts and emotions, according to Anderson."

If you do a search [ADHD cerebellum], you will find a lot of information, but it is still relatively new. The Dore exercises are aimed at stimulating the cerebellum, which develops these brain areas to function more optimally.

Raddmom...after a good nights sleep and morning shower, it finally occurred to me that you were eluding to the possibility that I am cashing in on my passion for what Dore does by posting their website and they pay me for every click you fine folks make?? Is that what you meant by you last post?

If you do a search [ADHD cerebellum], you will find a lot of information, but it is still relatively new. The Dore exercises are aimed at stimulating the cerebellum, which develops these brain areas to function more optimally.Thanks for your reply, but I believe that for me and my children, the time Dore might take to provide relief is too great and too iffy at this time. Plus its entirely too expensive and I cannot afford to lay out that kind of money for a "maybe" answer when a "yes, definitely" answer is available to me at my price.

I am not one to waste time and I have little time to waste for my own self at this point. Maybe later I will be proven to have been mistaken and if so, I will admit to that and deal with the consequences of my actions.

Crazy :cool:

CrazyFeet, here is a good article that mentions the cerebellum in connection with ADHD.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20021012/fob1.asp

"The data reveal that several discrete brain areas were smaller in children with the most severe forms of ADHD symptoms, which include inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsiveness, than in kids displaying milder versions. These areas consisted of parts of the frontal and temporal lobes, the inner-brain region known as the caudate nucleus, and the cerebellum. Earlier, smaller MRI studies had primarily implicated the frontal lobe in ADHD.

"This study provides a new look at the developing brain in ADHD," remarks psychologist Carl M. Anderson of McLean Hospital in Belmont, Mass. Of particular interest is the possible role of the cerebellum in ADHD, he says. Research now suggests that this rear-brain structure, which is usually associated with coordinating motion and balance, aids in coordinating thoughts and emotions, according to Anderson."

If you do a search [ADHD cerebellum], you will find a lot of information, but it is still relatively new. The Dore exercises are aimed at stimulating the cerebellum, which develops these brain areas to function more optimally.This article does mention the cerebellum, but it's main focus is the effect of stimulant medication on the ADHD brain. Very interesting.

"This disparity is most pronounced for the children and teenagers with ADHD who have never taken a stimulant medication, such as Ritalin, say psychiatrist F. Xavier Castellanos of New York University and his colleagues.

Overall, kids with ADHD had total brain volumes about 3 percent less than those of unaffected youngsters. Brain development followed parallel paths for participants with and without ADHD, but the 3 percent disparity in brain volume stayed constant.

Never-medicated children with ADHD also exhibited smaller white-matter volume in the brain than did both those taking stimulants and those free of mental ailments. White matter, which grows thicker as a child matures, consists of fibers that establish long-distance neural connections.

"It's possible that stimulant medication promotes brain maturation," Castellanos says."

This article does mention the cerebellum, but it's main focus is the effect of stimulant medication on the ADHD brain. Very interesting.

"This disparity is most pronounced for the children and teenagers with ADHD who have never taken a stimulant medication, such as Ritalin, say psychiatrist F. Xavier Castellanos of New York University and his colleagues.

Overall, kids with ADHD had total brain volumes about 3 percent less than those of unaffected youngsters. Brain development followed parallel paths for participants with and without ADHD, but the 3 percent disparity in brain volume stayed constant.

Never-medicated children with ADHD also exhibited smaller white-matter volume in the brain than did both those taking stimulants and those free of mental ailments. White matter, which grows thicker as a child matures, consists of fibers that establish long-distance neural connections.

"It's possible that stimulant medication promotes brain maturation," Castellanos says."I have heard that myself Imnapl. If that is what the meds do why would I waste time using an expensive procedure?

That's more like what I meant to say. TY for your input!

Crazy :cool:

Crazy, it gets even better! I found a study that showed stimulant meds help us ADHDers increase white matter in our brains . . . but I don't want to hijack an exercise thread. No pain, no gain and all that. :D

Crazy, it gets even better! I found a study that showed stimulant meds help us ADHDers increase white matter in our brains . . . but I don't want to hijack an exercise thread. No pain, no gain and all that. :DBy all means then begin another thread, and allow the exercise thread to run on without our OT input muddying the issue for the ones who rely on this thread.

Crazy :cool:

I thought this seemed familiar! :D

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=320507&postcount=13 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=320507&postcount=13)

this is all so interesting..
but i wonder why people are not typing adhd cerebellum into google.. i guess cause there's a million other things to do.
i just typed adhd cerebellum into google... i suggest everyone here does the same!!

i already know about the link between the cerebellum and adhd, this has never been an issue for me with dore. I also know that through exercise it is possible to kick start neural pathways... again.. look at google if u want proof.

as mentioned above proof for dore has come out a bit and is about to come out a lot more.

One of my biggest problems with dore was this idea that they tailor exercises to the individual... and that i might even harm one to do anothers exercises. These two things sounded to me like a way to make money... people will not pay a big some of cash for a book with a few exercises.. but a tailored 1 year program with check ups.. maybe.

How this tailoring works has now been explained to me, and i am happy enough with this explanation to fork out money that i do not have...
it is possible to pay monthly over a few years.. which will help...

The explanation is simple.
After the tests that are done at the assesment, it is determined at what level the client is at.. with there balance and eye tracking, this along with some other factors basicly tells dore what level of exercises to give..
So the tailoring is more to do with levels of difficulty of the different exercises.
Then after ur 6 weeks you go back.. they see how u got on with the different exercises and then decide what level of exercises you do next.

That makes perfect sense to me..
Does it to you all?

The other point about harm of doing someone else's exercises is just a precautionary thing like what u get on all medications etc... they have to say that.. like on perscribed drugs.. it always will say.. do not ever take someone elses drugs... this is even if the drugs are pretty harmless..
They don't actualy believe doing the exercises could ever harm anyone.. just have to say it for legal protection.

That also makes sense to me.

Questions please.

I can see where one may not have the money to invest to this system and / or not have six months for results i.e – your kid is going to be kicked out of school the next day.


I can also see why people may prefer to not take medications due to the chemical in the body thing. (Hey that’s their right to feel that way)

Then there is the 20% or so of people diagnosised with ADD who are not helped by medications.

I am of the "WEW" clan = What Ever Works!


Just because medications work for me and may even work the majority of ADDers doesn't mean they will be the right answer for all people, just as Dore isn't the answer for all. . . . . . . .the word that is most needed in these threads is acceptance. In this case acceptance that we are not “cookie cutter” people we are all different (biologically and situational) and thus different things work for different people.

Questions please.Did I miss something? Loversinc did you answer my questions from the last time you asked for questions?

OK loverinsinc, I did Google and it was mighty interesting.

***source quote***Exploratory Analysis of ADHD Dysfunction—F. Xavier Castellanos, M.D.
The cerebellum is emerging as one of the strongest anatomical findings in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and this network is linking basic and clinical investigators who will explore cerebellar-prefrontal-striatal dysfunctions in ADHD. The central hypothesis of this study is that there are two cerebellar-related dysfunctions implicated in ADHD: insufficient cerebellar vermis stimulation and abnormal neocerebellar mediated temporal processing. These dysfunctions are purported to result in striatal and prefrontal deficits and problems in executive functioning and performance variability. The network will address the hypothesis, via pilot functional MRI studies on ADHD adolescents and pilot studies in rats trying to localize dopamine relative to norepinephrine in the cerebellum and the effects of stimulants administered directly to cerebellum via microdialysis. Overall, this collaborative project will provide new information regarding the neuroanatomical substrates associated with symptoms of ADHD.***end quote***

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/scientificmeetings/adhdconsort.cfm

What leapt out at me was the identification of the role of the cerebellum as a hypothesis, the need for further study, the failure to mention exercise as a cerebellum stimulus, and this odd memory I have of a drug called Thalidomide, which when it was emerging as a safe treatmment for morning sickness during pregnancy was used by many women...with disastrous and permanent results to the fetus.

I will stick with the things that have been proven to work by scientific studies over a long period of time.

Crazy :cool: (and Imnapl, you missed nothing...the answer is "NO")

Did you know, that Hollowell has teamed up with the Dore center? Here is info from the Hollowell site:

http://www.drhallowell.com/hallowell_center/dore_center.html

Yes, 1kid2dogs, the subject of Dr. Ned Hallowell being a paid advisor for the centers (I've chosen not to use the name and therefore increase hits on Google and support unpaid advertising :D) has come up before on ADD Forums. If memory serves, Dr. Hallowell's son who has Dyslexia went through the program.

(I've chosen not to use the name and therefore increase hits on Google and support unpaid advertising :D).

What???????:eyebrow:

What???????:eyebrow:Exactly what she said, as evidenced by an earlier post by Myomancy claiming his site had many recent "hits" regarding Ritalin. I know perfectly well that I was one of those "hits" and I was simply clicking a link provided here...I did not go there for any new info on Ritalin.

If you don't know the name you cannot Google and if there is no link you cannot click. QED.

Crazy :cool:

Yes, 1kid2dogs, the subject of Dr. Ned Hallowell being a paid advisor for the centers (I've chosen not to use the name and therefore increase hits on Google and support unpaid advertising :D) has come up before on ADD Forums. If memory serves, Dr. Hallowell's son who has Dyslexia went through the program.I read this also, Imnapl. The son was indeed dyslexic and Dr. Hallowell is a consultant for the purpose of determining whether or not this system is helpful to those with ADHD. Bear in mind that Ned Hallowell is a 20%er...one who is unable to respond to any medications. ;) I believe he still prefers to determine if meds should be ruled out first before proceeding with a "no-meds" option in his own practice, however.

Crazy :cool:

Excuse me, did I violate a forum or other guidline by posting a link here? I still don't quite understand, and feel a bit attacked, in addition to RaddMom's earlier post and something to do with a home job and my posted link to the Dore Center (Sorry to mention the four-letter word again). What exactly are you getting at? I don't expect anyone to believe what anyone writes, and it has been reiterated in many discussions here and on other forums that you prefer to have links provided to back up what an individual states on a post.

I am simply a mom with an ADHD son who cannot take stims due to seizure activity, and have decided to try something else, and have absolutely NO financial anything in the Dore (pardon me) Program other than the money I paid THEM, OK????

OK, this is bugging me, so let me try to clear the air. It seems there is the idea that by clicking on a link provided on this site that it will somehow generate income to the posting individal??? I had to google this to find out something. Just FYI, there is a clicking program that one can have ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE, such as the Myomancy site, that when someone clicks on advertisements, they do get paid by the advertiser. It's all very customary. The links I post are not my own websites. I'm not that crafty to design a corporate website. Does that clarify anything? Nobody needs my little input here to bump up their google ratings either. I don't think that much of myself. I am aghast that anyone here would think that I would use a place I come to give and recieve support for any kind of gain whatsoever. My objective is just to pass on something someone might find usefull. I apologize if I have offended anyone in any way.

Exactly what she said, as evidenced by an earlier post by Myomancy claiming his site had many recent "hits" regarding Ritalin. I know perfectly well that I was one of those "hits" and I was simply clicking a link provided here...I did not go there for any new info on Ritalin.

If you don't know the name you cannot Google and if there is no link you cannot click. QED.
You weren't one of the hits on the Ritalin and Cocaine article.

I know this because I was quoting the number of people who find my site via search engines not via links.

Just for the record. I did not post the article on Ritalin and Cocaine and the only reason I mentioned the traffic I got was to point out that there are people who want to know this information.

I admire your ethical stance in not mentioning Dore Achievement Centres ( or Dore Achievement Centers if you are American) but I have to point out that its rather pointless.

Just mentioning DAC's name will not increase Dore's position in the search engines one bit. If there was a link to their site everytime they were mentioned then it would help them. This would effect their rankings for people searching on their name but if someone already knows their name then you not mentioning it isn't going to make a difference.

If you want to stop people using Dore then what you need to do is mention Dore in this thread as often as possible. Then when people search for Dore, they will find this thread and be able to read your opinions about Dore and be able make an informed choice over whether to use it or not.

If you want to put your money where your mouth is then you could set up
a domain called Dore-Waste-Of-Money.com or similar and put whatever you want up there. I would even link to it from Myomancy.

Chris

... Just FYI, there is a clicking program that one can have ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE, such as the Myomancy site, that when someone clicks on advertisements, they do get paid by the advertiser. Technically I get paid by Google not by the advertiser. I have no control over which adverts appear on the site.

For the record, I get about £10 a month profit after deducting hosting fees etc. That probably works out at about £0.20 for each hour I spend working on the site.

Chris

Thanks for explaining that. I stand corrected. I did not know how it worked, and did not really want to spend my time trying to defend anything either. I really have much better things to do.

Do you have to have been a Dore client to promote it?

Nope. If you're looking for work you can do from home, you can even become a sales "intake consultant" for them.

You don't have to know anything about ADD, you just have to follow a script and talk a lot about yourself or someone who's been helped. (Sorry for the sarcasm - I've been pretty put-off by their extremely unprofessional sales approach, even if I see some validity to the treatment.) Seriously - you already know more about ADD than their average sales person does and you're DEFINITELY more intelligent than both the sales people with whom I've had contact AND the therapist who gave the tour of the open house, so if you find the Dore approach makes sense, working for them might be a good option for you. I'm sure you wouldn't let yourself get locked into their idiot-script or use their emotional-manipulation dirty sales techniques, so you'd also be doing a service to those of us who want the help but find the business structure pretty dodgy.

And once you're working for them, maybe you can get a tip put into the staff-training materials: SHUT UP ALREADY! :rolleyes:

Thankyou clarity, I have had company and did not have time to pull all my research on this idea together for a post. So, it kinda sounds like telemarketing with an internet option thrown in.

Yuck, did that once-lasted 6 weeks. Not a good fit with my artist brain. I think I will begin writing and considerstarting my own website -free access-but something above board to earn money to keep it afloat. But not just another ADD site-lots of ideas up my sleeve.

Becky

RADDmom, no with Dore it would be an actual job, you'd follow up sales leads from inquiry cards people send in and so on, and do intake assessments and the sales paperwork. They provide training, and I doubt it would be a full-time commitment.

Just for the record. I did not post the article on Ritalin and Cocaine and the only reason I mentioned the traffic I got was to point out that there are people who want to know this information.I must be missing something. Myomancy, you do have the article on Ritalin and Cocaine posted on your website, correct?

If you want to stop people using Dore then what you need to do is mention Dore in this thread as often as possible. Then when people search for Dore, they will find this thread and be able to read your opinions about Dore and be able make an informed choice over whether to use it or not.This is not about stopping people using Dore. As far as I know, they are not doing anything illegal or life threatening. What is confusing and annoying are the number of people who have never completed the exercise program who repeatedly post recommendations for the program on any discussion forum they can. These people rarely post anything else on these sites.

If you want to put your money where your mouth is then you could set up
a domain called Dore-Waste-Of-Money.com or similar and put whatever you want up there. I would even link to it from Myomancy.An Anti-Dore website? But that would be like an anti-med website; one should have personal experience with the Dore program to have such strong opinions.

Why would I take my valuable time to set up any website? That would indicate I had the will and the time to do so. I do not, nor do I have sufficient interest.

Crazy :cool:

I don't think people here want to be "anti-Dore," they just want to know that they are not inadvertently supporting something they personally don't believe in. The forum guidelines say we can disagree as long as it is done respectfully. You will find I have never disparaged you, just asked questions, stated my opinion, and posted information I have found while looking at what the Center has to offer. To have strong feelings about something is not a personal attack on the person who believes strongly in something.

When I visit a website and it is not evident that I am supporting it by clicking on links bothers me. Plus, I find no link on the myomancy site back to the ADD forums-I was told I could not have my MySpace.com page in my signature unless I put a link to the forum on it. So you can see the kinds of questions this is raising in many of our minds. We just want all this information to be upfront. I am confused as to why you have no link to the ADD Forums.


As far as earning money-here is a quote from a link on the purple linked site:

Here is a quote I found on this site, http://www.tregenza.com/ (http://www.tregenza.com/) easily found when googling for more on dore and myomancy.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

September 12, 2005<o:p></o:p>

What is Dyslexia?<o:p></o:p>

I've had an article published entitled 'What is Dyslexia? (http://www.lifestyle-weblog.com/50226711/what_is_dyslexia.php)'. This is basically a copy of <o:p></o:p>

'The Dyslexia Myth: So What is Dyslexia? (http://www.myomancy.com/2005/09/the_dyslexia_my_4.html)' from my Myomancy (http://www.myomancy.com/) site but for this article I get paid based on how many times it is read. So please pass it on to as many people as possible. (Emphasis mine.) <o:p></o:p>



---------------------------------------

The open and free exchange of opinions is what promotes understanding, innovation, and many other things. The big problem I see with Dore is that no one gives any kind of detail at all about the treatment. I even went to the site and found all kinds of testimonials and info about screening and the cost and virtually nothing about the course of treatment other than it is a progressive group of exercises designed to stimulate and develop the cerebellum.

The problem is that ADD also affects the cerebrum, and then there is the limbic system. Executive funcion in frontal lobes is just one aspect of it. I have a gross motor control disability that no amount of exercise can "correct." No matter what I have done this is part of who I am. Yes, I can develop new neuropathways for many things, but this is hard-wired genetically in my brain.

Neuroscientists are just beginning to explore the complexity of the brain and the interconnection of the three major parts-the cognitive, affective, and the psychomotor. I personally have a hard time seeing how one modality of treatment such as Dore can treat ADD.

In non-western medicine, the person is treated as a whole, hence holistic medicine. I believe the interplay of traditional Western medicine, alternative medicine, and eastern medical practices will eventually find effective, holistic treatments for ADD/ADHD and the entire spectrum of related disorders.

The one caveat-the genetic basis-unless we can prevent the inheritance of the chromosomes that cause this spectrum, it will never be cured.

Info on myomancy found on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myomancy

This post is my opinion, is not or ever has been intended as a personal attack or put down of another forum member. It contains my thoughts and information I have found while researching Dore just like a do everything else that might help my ADD.

As Andi's signature says- You must do what you know in heart is the right thing to do. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Eleanor Roosevelt. So, let's see if Hoover is built yet again or not.

Becky
I Think
Therefore I am Dangerous

RaddMom, here in the States, the reps actually go to the homes and meet and talk with the family, they have the computer powerpoint presentation they bring along, it is pretty canned, and takes a couple of hours if you have a lot of questions. I didn't have any trouble with the process we went through, because they didn't have to sell me on anything. My rep is a doll, and she came with many years of school sped experience. I asked a ton of questions, and if she didn't know the answer, she did find out for me. She did even ask me if I would be interested in doing what she does part time as an rep for our area. I wasn't too keen on giving up my p.m. hours too, and they work on commission, so the income would be very erratic. It would definately be evening and weekend make-your-own kind of schedule though. You sound very creative, best of luck in your search.

I would also like to apolozige if I missunderstood the meaning behind your earlier post, it is difficult sometime to distiguish between an honest question and an intent to slam.

Raddmom, you are welcome to contact me privately if you would like some more information on the treatment question you posted while I was writing the above. My son has completed partial treatment and is on hiatus for another therapy, so I can do my best to answer your questions if you like.

I must be missing something. Myomancy, you do have the article on Ritalin and Cocaine posted on your website, correct?
As this is a discussion about promoting web sites, I was referring to the link to my article in this forum. The article on Myomancy was written and posted by myself.

Chris

When I visit a website and it is not evident that I am supporting it by clicking on links bothers me.
They only way you can support a web site by clicking on links is if those links are adverts. All adverts by reputable companies such as Google are marked as adverts by the company themselves, e.g. the 'Ads by Google' heading above or below the adverts. This applies to nearly all web sites. There are spam sites that trick the user into clicking adverts but these are rare. Clicking a link from one article to another article does not support Myomancy or 99.999% of web sites out there.


Plus, I find no link on the myomancy site back to the ADD forums- .... I am confused as to why you have no link to the ADD Forums.

Technically its against the rules for me to post this link as I'm not allowed to post links to my own site but here is the link back to these forums.

http://www.myomancy.com/2006/07/dyslexia_and_ad.html


As far as earning money-here is a quote from a link on the purple linked site:
Yep, and I earned sweet FA from it.


The open and free exchange of opinions is what promotes understanding, innovation, and many other things. The big problem I see with Dore is that no one gives any kind of detail at all about the treatment. I even went to the site and found all kinds of testimonials and info about screening and the cost and virtually nothing about the course of treatment other than it is a progressive group of exercises designed to stimulate and develop the cerebellum.

I 100% agree with you.

For ease, lets refer to Dore / Learning Breakthrough / INPP etc as Cerebellum Programmes or CP for short.

... I have a gross motor control disability that no amount of exercise can "correct." No matter what I have done this is part of who I am. Yes, I can develop new neuropathways for many things, but this is hard-wired genetically in my brain.
This is a very big claim. How do you know that you cannot correct your motor control problems? Things you may of tried in the past might not of worked but that doesn't mean that nothing will work.

The key to CP exercises is that start at the absolute basics. Things a one or two year old would be able to do. This is where these programmes differ from say, learning martial arts or gymnastics. Sports assume that you have a basic level muscle control and coordination and then train up the areas needed for the specif