View Full Version : Why no subforum for Desoxyn?


Dogg
12-06-05, 06:36 PM
Why dont they have a section for this medication? Is it because its methampetamine and not PC or is it because no one uses it or can get ahold of it?

Braack
12-07-05, 01:43 AM
Because it is frowned upon for medicinal use. Only in extreme circumstances does it work. And because its compound is 50% or more potent than other medications which means your sleep is going to be effected severely. Its the cost/benefit factor.

TheBrainiac
12-07-05, 11:01 PM
Because this site discourages drug seeking behavior. A lot of ADD sufferers have had problems with drug addiction in the past, and Desoxyn is severely contraindicated for those patients. More than likely, it is simply because a physician that is Rxing Desoxyn better have a good reason for doing so, Pharmacies dont carry it, and its very expensive and only availiable in 5mg tablets. Generally one of the other sympathomimetic stimulant medications is more than sufficient for ADHD. No, they may not be good for "Getting High" but that is not the purpose of these medicines. There is a reason these medications are Schedule Two prescriptions, and the scope of accepted prescribing of methamphetamine is VERY limited.

MafiaKiddo
12-08-05, 12:46 PM
LOL I don't know about the site. I know I've never mentioned it because I've never heard of it. Of course if I had used it and it worked for me I would have no problems sharing that info with others. I take Adderall XR (also a schedule 2 narcotic) which is often mentioned on this site so I doubt that it is taboo because of it's classification.

Since I never heard of it I did a bit of searching to find out more and I haven't found anything that said Desoxyn is any more dangerous (or safer to be fair) then any other stimulant medication. From the info I found it is prescribed just as a lot of other ADHD meds are prescribed at the lowest possible dose (5mg) and working up from there until you find the theraputic dose. Most of the references I saw stated that the average dose of Desoxyn for ADHD sufferers was 20mg to 25mg daily. The only reference I could find for using the medication at it's lowest 5mg dosage was for treatment of obeisity. As for pharmacies not carrying it most will order it if you have a prescription. I know I've had to wait a few days before because my pharmacy didn't have my meds and quite honestly they are all expensive especially when you don't have insurance.

The fact that it is methamphetamine makes me question whether it is actually the strongest med prescribed for ADHD since I was always led to believe that methamphetamines were weaker then amphetamines. Of course I could very well be wrong, please let me know where you got your information. I like to keep up to date on all the treatment options and obviously I'm not up to date on this medication.

I gotta add the comment that a lot of ADDers have drug abuse problems kind of aggrivated me. More then that though you don't ignore a possible treatment just because some people somewhere might abuse it. Sure people that have had addiction problems in the past would want to avoid certain medication. That makes sense with any addiction whether it's stimulants, pain meds, alcohol you name it if someone abused it in the past they should avoid it in the future.

From the way it's worded in the above posts it sounds like doctors never prescribe schedule 2 medications for ADHD when in fact they are the most commenly prescribed medications. Adderall, Dexedrine and Concerta are all listed as schedule 2 drugs.

And again I ask you to explain if I'm missing something but it's stated that instead of using schedule 2 meds sympathomimetic stimulants are actually the most effect at treating ADHD. You can imagine after reading that I was confused again because what I know of sympathomimetic medication is that they are usually used for either resporitory or heart problems. For example I've never heard of anyone taking pseudoephedrine (sudafed) or epinephrine (adrenaline) both classified as sympathomimetic drugs, to successfully treat their ADD.

The only possibility in that class is dopamine and yes some people have had success with Welbutrin and thats wonderful but it doesn't change the fact that most ADDers do not get relief from their symptoms from antidepressants. So I'm sorry but I can't agree that sympathomimetics are more then sufficient. We all know that medications effects everyone differently talk to some people on the board and see how many meds they've had to try before finding the right one. Most have tales of being misdiagnosed put on a variety of meds from antidepressant to antipsychotics before finally finding something that worked.

mctavish23
12-08-05, 02:23 PM
I work with ADHD kids and I've never seen it prescribed.

My best guess as to your question would be that it doesn't get mentioned due to few people taking it or their kids taking it, etc.

Hyperion
12-09-05, 12:12 PM
Yeah, I don't think that abuse issues are the main reason for its lack of mention, since there are forums for all the other amphetamines. No, I'd say it's simply because so few people take it.

On the other hand, if there are more than a few people who are taking this medication, maybe it would be a good idea to set up a forum for it. Send an email to an administrator.

Dogg
12-13-05, 11:37 AM
Whatever helps people. Dont forget the average tweaker takes about 10X the dose that would be prescribed for ADD. So the effects would be completely different.

I dont know if methamphetamines are better than other meds. Just curious.

Daven
12-26-05, 06:18 PM
Methamphetamines, are very similar to amphetamines in reaction, but mg for mg, it is a much more potent substance.


There is the whole reason for its lack of use. The effects are very similar (if not technically identical, once you get past the metabolism of course) to amphetamines, and the track record of amphetamines is much more known. It is much easier to abuse a much more powerfull substance (in a sense) so theres really no reason to use it unless theres some very strange reason a subject would need to use it (as due to it's metabolism).

spoonbits
02-04-06, 04:00 AM
Diagrams of the amphetamine and methamphetamine molecules show them to be nearly identical in chemical structure. Below is a quote from a webpage describing the difference between Adderall and methamphetamine (Desoxyn).

“The ‘meth’ from Meth-amphetamine comes from the chemical name ‘methyl’. The chemical Methamphetamine is composed of an amphetamine molecule with an additional methyl group attached to its nitrogen (amine group). For Methamphetamine, the methyl allows it a little better fat solubility and thus better penetration into the brain.” http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=2846


Better fat solubility likely explains why methamphetamine is more potent and lasts longer in the brain. I’ve read posts elsewhere in which Desoxyn is described as not only more efficacious for ADD than Adderall, but “cleaner” (less side effects) as well.

As the above website mentions, however, methamphetamines carry with them a considerable stigma. It’s perception as an illicit street drug, with a negative social impact and substantial health risks for chronic users, is nearly universal. The stigma makes it difficult to think of methamphetamine as medication even though it's very nearly the same as the active ingredient in Adderall.

Tara
02-04-06, 06:40 AM
What is a "tweaker"?



Whatever helps people. Dont forget the average tweaker takes about 10X the dose that would be prescribed for ADD. So the effects would be completely different.

I dont know if methamphetamines are better than other meds. Just curious.

Tara
02-04-06, 06:44 AM
Nevermind I looked it up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweaking_%28behavior%29

mctavish23
02-04-06, 12:16 PM
I would venture to say that no one in their right mind would choose methamphetamines over the stimulants frequently used to treat ADHD; as appropriate for children.

If the commonly used stimulants worked, then there'd be no reason to even think of it.

As I've said, in the 22+years I've been here, I've never seen it used for kids.

spoonbits
02-05-06, 03:37 AM
I would venture to say that no one in their right mind would choose methamphetamines over the stimulants frequently used to treat ADHD; as appropriate for children.

Except that... chemically speaking, the active ingredient of Adderall (amphetamine) is virtually identical to methamphetamine.
Click here to see a comparison of the molecules:
http://www.erowid.org/cgi-bin/chem_compare/chem_compare.cgi?LM=_ch_amphetamines_ia_amphetamin e_2d.gif&RM=_ch_meth_ia_methamphetamine_2d.jpg


In methamphetamine, it’s still the amphetamine molecule that produces the psychoactive effect. Attaching a methyl group to the amphetamine molecule simply increases fat solubility. Since two thirds of the brain is composed of fats, the methyl group in methamphetamine enables better absorption of the amphetamine molecule into the brain, increasing potency.


Since methamphetamines are a more easily absorbed amphetamine, and amphetamines are “stimulants frequently used to treat ADHD; as appropriate for children” your statement could read "no one in their right mind would choose one amphetamine over another amphetamine."


It strikes me as being more a matter of perception. The idea of administering anything remotely “street drug” related to children (or oneself) isn’t particularly palatable. Keeping the word "meth" out of the AD/HD lexicon is probably a good thing - there's enough misinformation and doubt about AD/HD out there as it is.

lars
07-22-06, 05:11 AM
I am wondering why there is no subforum for the drug Desoxyn at this site?

I noticed that there are seven different stimulant drug subforums in the "ADD/ADHD Medications" forum here at this site. Of those seven, four are different brands or forms of methylphenidate. 4 out of 7! Wow! I started on methylphenidate, and I can understand why it is a first line drug, but I found it to be the least therapeutic of all the stimulants that are prescribed for this dissorder.

Desoxyn is arguably the most effective, and therapeutic of all the ADD/ADHD stimulant drugs, and also one of the oldest on the market. I can report about its therapeutic nature first hand, because I have taken Desoxyn (currently am taking it in fact), and each of the other stimulants prescribed for this dissorder at one time or another since 1992.

I can understand why Dr's might be afraid to talk to their patients about this drug due to the nature of the hysteria associated with the street version of this substance, and there is good reason to be afraid of the street version as it is a dangerous substance. That being said, the street version of this substance is not the same thing as Desoxyn. For starters, Desoxyn is not an illegal drug. Secondly it is approved by the FDA for the treatment of ADD and ADHD.

I am simply at a loss as to why I am unable to get an answer here at this site as to why Desoxyn is not included in its own subforum along with all the other stimulants who each have their own subforum under the "ADD / ADHD Medications" forum.

There are many people suffering from this dissorder who have found Desoxyn to be a miracle drug in their lives after having tried all the other stimulant drugs that are prescribed for this dissorder.

As long as this drug is legal, and still prescribed in the US, why not talk about it here at this site which seems to be interested in providing as much needed information as possible to people suffering from this condition?

I was instructed by a moderator here that the only way to get this drug included here was to speak out, and maybe get others to speak out about why Desoxyn should be included in the "ADD / ADHD Medications" forum. I hope that this thread encourages others who have this dissorder to ask why it is not here too. We all deserve the best treatment options available to treat our dissorder, and for some of us that includes the drug Desoxyn.

Andrew
07-23-06, 05:21 PM
I would encourage others to post their experiences with Desoxyn here as well. We'll use this and other Desoxyn posts to gauge interest.

theta
07-24-06, 05:07 AM
This is off topic for the thread but
on topic(since you want a place to talk about Desoxyn).
----------------
Possible mechanism for the neuroprotective effects of L-carnitine on methamphetamine-evoked neurotoxicity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12853314&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

-----------------
There is a study were carnitine was used to treat ADHD.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12213433&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
---------------

lars
08-01-06, 04:32 PM
I would encourage others to post their experiences with Desoxyn here as well. We'll use this and other Desoxyn posts to gauge interest.If you really want to encourage others to post in order to gauge interest in Desoxyn, why not just start a subforum for this drug like you have for all the other drugs approved by the FDA for treating this condition?

I noticed that you have even started subforums for other drugs that are not even approved by the FDA for treating this condition, like Clonidine, and Wellbutrin. No offense to anyone taking those drugs, I am sure they work for some people, but so does Desoxyn, and it has been around longer than almost all of the other drugs used to treat this condition plus it is approved for treating this condition.

If you want to gauge interest, then open up a subforum so that new people who have never heard of Desoxyn can ask about it. By not including it in your medications forum it appears that you are falling into the "rank and file" of our society that get caught up in the hype of the dangers of these drugs without looking at how beneficial they are for others. I think that is a shame Andrew. I love this site, and you have done a wonderful job creating it, but to be honest I feel that the fact that Desoxyn does not have its own subforum here and Clonidine does to be very telling of your personal intolerance for an ADD approved medication that for many is a true miracle drug. I hope I am wrong about that, but I find that many Dr.'s even have an intolerance too. It's very unfortunate.

lars
08-02-06, 09:41 PM
Why dont they have a section for this medication?Excellent question Dogg. I would like to know the answer to that myself.

Considering that there are subforums at this site in the "ADD/ADHD Medication" forum for drugs like Clonidine & Wellbutrin (neither of which are FDA approved to treat this dissorder), and yet there is not a subforum for Desoxyn (which is FDA approved for treating this dissorder), is very sad to me. Especially at a site that refers to itself as, "The Ultimate World Online Resource Center For ADHD." You would think an "ultimate" resource would certainlly include all the treatments available for this condition, especially a treatment that is arguably one of the best treatments available.

It has been my experience that most people who have a low opinion of Desoxyn have either A. they have never tried Desoxyn as a treatment, or B. they just assume that Desoxyn is the same as street meth & all that goes along with that.

*~ §EEK ~*
08-02-06, 10:31 PM
Lars,
I don't have any feelings one way or the other about Desoxyn. (In fact I wouldn't have even known about it if you hadn't mentioned it in another thread.) :) I also saw the another thread dated back to (I think) 2005 that you replied in Lars asking if this Forum/Website is biased against Desoxyn.

However, I think you should perhaps place a request in the Site Suggestions & Feedback (http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17) section and ask for a sub forum there! That's the most appropriate place for this type of post/request!

In fact, I'm actually surprised that Andrew didn't already move it there automatically in the first place, since that's were this type of thread belongs!

Peace, :)

lars
08-02-06, 10:50 PM
Lars,
I don't have any feelings one way or the other about Desoxyn. (In fact I wouldn't have even known about it if you hadn't mentioned it in another thread.) :) I also saw the another thread dated back to (I think) 2005 that you replied in Lars asking if this Forum/Website is biased against Desoxyn.

However, I think you should perhaps place a request in the Site Suggestions & Feedback (http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17) section and ask for a sub forum there! That's the most appropriate place for this type of post/request!

In fact, I'm actually surprised that Andrew didn't already move it there automatically in the first place, since that's were this type of thread belongs!

Peace, :)
I did that already Seek. I posted under the Site Suggestions & Feedback where I responded to a poll that was started by Andrew that was called "What's your honest opinion of the ADD forums?"

I decided to start a thread here asking why there was no subforum about Desoxyn, which is where Andrew responded. He did not move it there, because my question was already there.

lars
08-02-06, 11:21 PM
We'll use this and other Desoxyn posts to gauge interest.Well, I did a search here tonight at the site and here's how the interest adds up based on the total number of threads for a few of the other drugs you have subforums for, as compared to the total number of threads for Desoxyn:


Nopramine..........1 thread

Tofranil..............24 threads

Cylert.................68 threads

Desoxyn..............105 threads


Tofranil nor Nopramine have ever been FDA approved to treat ADD/ADHD. I also noticed that was the case with other drugs like Clonidine & Welbutrin that you had created subforums for in the medications thread, but honestly there was more interest in both Clonidine & Welbutrin than there was for Desoxyn, so I guess I can kind of appreciate why you would include them there before you might Desoxyn, but the truth is Andrew Desoxyn is FDA approved to treat this dissorder.


Andrew I have to ask, exactly what kind of interest are you trying to gauge?


It appears that you have your own personal reason for not wanting to include Desoxyn (which is FDA approved for treating ADD), and that is very unfortunate Andrew. Especially at a site that you call "The Ultimate World Online Resource Center For ADHD." One would certainlly think that an "ultimate" resource would certainlly want to include every possible treatment option. Especially when that treatment in question is arguably the best treatment available.

Master Rat
08-03-06, 01:04 AM
I am 43, very stable, have two kids with ADHD, married over twenty years and I personally use desoxyn. In my experience it is one of the best stims ever made. It is actually very sedating and easy on and easy off. If you have a problem supporting Desoxyn than it must be personal, because Desoxyn is too therapudic to be ignored.

I also mix Dex with my Desoxyn, because two Desoxyn are too strong for me.
Plus Dex gives Desoxyn a more waking affect and you can micro dial your personal aggressiveness with Dex; which is important if you engage in business. If they made 2.5 mg Desoxyn tablets; I would probably just stay on meth-anphetamine, which is Desoxyn if some people do not know.

The name of the drug you take is as important as it's deliver system.
Face it you can kill yourself with vitamins if you want to.
No legal drug that is therapudic should be hidden from discussion unless you really do not want to cure this ugly curse.

Best Wishes,

Tom

theta
08-03-06, 12:04 PM
Well you never know what peoples
motives are. Like some of the brandname drugs that have forums
could be because people with money have made sure that they are here and maybe even paid people to post here to boost one product and trash another. If a non-brand name off
patent drug that was the most cns selective ,longer acting ever became know to the public some people would be out of money.

lars
08-03-06, 01:16 PM
I thought about the possibility of product placement going on here Theta, but then I thought perhaps I was just being paranoid about that. I guess it is certainlly possible though, albeit very unfortunate if that turns out to be true.

I was hoping that it was just a case of not enough interest in Desoxyn here at this site, but when you do a search here at this site on Desoxyn, it is clear that there has been much more interest expressed for it than has been expressed for some of the other drugs that already have subforums in the medications forum.

theta
08-03-06, 01:39 PM
Yeah I doubt goggle ad's pay enough to fund this site. I do not know about
you but the ads render at the bottem of the page I never see them thus never
click on them. So the owner of this site is likely doing this as a break even
thing with no goal of making money. Or maybe there is another way to make
money? I mean how do we know if our post(me & you) may be wiped clean from this site. I notice this site has an extreme moderation one of my post
was deleted I think there was nothing wrong with it. There was no reveiw or
warning it was just removed then a warning about the post with a link to
a missing post(thats crazy). I PM the moderator but I never got a reply back. People that own the site are free to make the rules as they please but
in a public forum if there is something "under the table" going on I do not want to be here and their is laws againts it in some countries that this site is
veiw in. (payment for news == fraud)

Matt S.
08-03-06, 02:31 PM
I found the desoxyn gradumets I took for adhd in 1997 to be excellent as a medication when I took it it was 30 mg twice daily and it made me normal no issue just slowed me down and shut me up... I think that society has a big issue with the fact supported by psychiatrists that METHAMPHETAMINE has legitimate use for some people... I stopped desoxyn and dexedrine abrubptly and just got hyper no addiction just hyper

Tara
08-03-06, 03:57 PM
Lars,

Are you getting some type of kick back from the makers of Desoxyn? I can't for the live of me figure out any other reason for you to be hyperfocusing on the idea of a having a sub-forum for this medication. The plain and simple reason that there isn't a sub-forum is because there is not enough interest in this medication. It not been discussed much on ADDF over the 4 years I have been a members here. I don't see it discussed many other places either.

Maybe a better solution would be for ADDF to remove the sub-forums for the medications that are getting discussed less than Desoxyn.

FYI the owner and people who run this site don't get paid for it. The google ads way down at the bottom of the page aren't even noticed by most people. Therefore they are not bringing in much money. Even if they were making a ton of money so what!!! This site provides a lot of support to people.

I still don't get the point of this thread if you are looking to give or get support about Desoxyn then post about it in the correct area. This will will help others find info about the medication when they search on google or other search engines. Having a sub-forum pretty much helps to organize the site it doesn't really affect much else.

Crazy~Feet
08-03-06, 04:03 PM
Tara, I would have to agree with the idea of removing the non-active subforums. I can state that the Metadate forum sees virtually no action myself. Perhaps it would be better to class the medications by types then merge all the subforums? Just an idea. I am not sure what all the hollering is about desoxyn myself!

Where you have ADHD, there is bound to be some amount of hollering though, after all.

Crazy :cool:

lars
08-03-06, 04:54 PM
Lars,

Are you getting some type of kick back from the makers of Desoxyn? I can't for the live of me figure out any other reason for you to be hyperfocusing on the idea of a having a sub-forum for this medication. The plain and simple reason that there isn't a sub-forum is because there is not enough interest in this medication. It not been discussed much on ADDF over the 4 years I have been a members here. I don't see it discussed many other places either.

Maybe a better solution would be for ADDF to remove the sub-forums for the medications that are getting discussed less than Desoxyn.

FYI the owner and people who run this site don't get paid for it. The google ads way down at the bottom of the page aren't even noticed by most people. Therefore they are not bringing in much money. Even if they were making a ton of money so what!!! This site provides a lot of support to people.

I still don't get the point of this thread if you are looking to give or get support about Desoxyn then post about it in the correct area. This will will help others find info about the medication when they search on google or other search engines. Having a sub-forum pretty much helps to organize the site it doesn't really affect much else.
FYI, it was Theta, and not me who introduced the idea that there was any money being made here by anyone, and I never once brought up anything about the Google ads, that was Theta too.

To answer your question, no, I am not getting anything from the manufacturer of Desoxyn, nor any kick backs from anyone else by posting here. I wish I was because the stuff is way over priced. The reason I am so vocal about this is because I have been taking medication for this dissorder since early 1992, and having tried all the medications, I have found Desoxyn to be a very good drug that is ignored by most people. I did not even know it existed for about 8 years, and when I asked my Dr. about it he informed me that he did not know it existed either. Since then, I have found out that this is the norm, and most people are completely unaware of this drug, or assume it is just like the illegal meth, or that it just can't be that much better than the other stimulants currently available. That is unfortunate since it is arguably the best drug available among the stimulants for treating this condition. My wish in getting a subforum here is nothing more than the hope that new people, or people like I used to be who are completely unaware that this stuff was even an available option will know that they have not tried everything under the sun and just give up in their search for the best treatment after they have tried everything else.

You claim that "you can't for the live of you figure out any other reason for me to be hyperfocusing on the idea of a having a sub-forum for this medication." I would have to assume that you have never taken Desoxyn, because if you have you would likely be able to figure that out Tara. This drug works unlike any of the other stimulant drugs, and I mean in a good way. I find this to be the most therapeutic drug available for this condition, and if you want to assume I am getting kickbacks, then go right ahead. I personally am more suspicious like Theta is that the ones who are getting kickbacks are the ones who appear to be hiding this drug. Even though I may be suspicious, I would never ask them that. I believe that actions speak louder than words, but I am certainlly interested in hearing why they have not included it here at this point. Do a search on this drug here at this site and see how many others here over the past few years have asked the same questions I am about why it is not included here in the medications forum.

I did post in the suggestions forum, and I also contacted several (3) moderators of the medications forum. Only one ever replied to my private message. That was "relvinnian" who told me, "Voice your concerns with an admin or post in the suggestions forum," which I did, and he further said, "to speak up (which you have) and hopefully enough other people will too." Well I voiced my concerns in the suggestions forum, and I voiced my concerns here too. I did not know this was breaking protocol, or offending, and the truth is I wanted to bring the name Desoxyn here because I believe it to be a wonderful FDA approved medicine for this dissorder, and I thought it should be seen in the "ADD ADHD Medications Forum." I was not trying to create such a hassle, and if you are not interested in Desoxyn, then simply ignore this thread. My goal is to do nothing other than maybe help this site be more of what it claims to be, "The Ultimate World Online Resource Center For ADHD." How can it claim to be "ultimate," which means final, maximum, furthest, highest, if it is not even willing to list all the FDA approved treatments for this condition? Furthermore, there are drugs that are listed in the medications forum that are not FDA approved for this condition like Desoxyn is, and which also have shown less interest from the members of this site than has been shown for Desoxyn.

Master Rat
08-03-06, 05:11 PM
No hollering, I just like things easy to find. Less wasted time = more of something else. I would never think the owners of this site are purely motivated by money; "I think they truely want to help people". I owned a large commercial website in the past and it was truely a labor of love.

I think Lars interrest is peaked by the excitement that something really works for him. My first interrest in Desoxyn's popularity is, I never want to see the drug taken away by the government, it works too well for me. My second concern is, I would hate to make the drug too popular like brand Dexedrine and have to worry about shortages of supply from July thru September.

In summary, I guess when something like Desoxyn really helps you and you see all the bad press on it; your more willing to stand up for it. I just got back from vacation out west and in Canada; I cann't remmember the number of anti Meth billboard signs I saw. My wife and I just laughed ever time we saw one, probably to get over the unconfortable feeling that I take this stuff to be normal.:confused:

Best Wishes,

Tom

Matt S.
08-04-06, 11:45 AM
i wish they'd put the long acting ones back on the market so I could take it again

lars
08-04-06, 02:17 PM
i wish they'd put the long acting ones back on the market so I could take it againI wish they would put that back on the market too, but I am not getting my hopes up. If the Desoxyn Gradumet was the only thing that you felt really worked for you, then I would suggest that you talk to your Dr. about the posibility of having a local compound pharmacy preparing an extended release version of this substance just for you.


Every Dr. in the US (maybe other countries too, I only know about the US) can choose at their discretion to order the base chemicals for any drug on the market, and then they can have a compound phamacy prepare the drug how they see fit for their patients.


Granted this is not done very often at all (especially with schedule II controlled substances), but it is a perfectly legal option, and since the version of this drug that worked best for you is no longer available, then it is something worth discussing with your Dr.


If your Dr. is willing to do this for you I would hope that you would be willing to post about it here after you try them out, and let us know how the new extended release version from the local compound phamacy compares to the old Desoxyn Gradumet.

Cyz19
08-07-06, 11:24 PM
ok so i've been on adderall for almost two yrs this fall and they've upped my dose as high as it could go, took me off xr, put me on regular adderall at 30mg three times a day, yet im sleepy, irritable, unable to focus and unwilling to TRY to accomplish anything... totally unlike myself thru the first year and a half of adderall. however, i talked to the dr about it and they tried ritalin which was horrible for me, VERY irritable, nauseaus, massive headaches etc... so they tried focalin short acting... 20mg 4x a day... not as much nausea or headache but my attention span was even worse than just taking adderall... so my question is... and im sorry if any of u have mentioned this in a previous post (most of em were too long and lost my attention lol) but i've been reading a lot about desoxyn on here lately and mentioned it to my friend whose the office manager at my therapists office who in turn left a message for the doc who is on vacation. however she says that she has not seen anyone in that office prescribed desoxyn, and wasn't even sure what it was herself until she looked it up. ok sorry i know that still wasnt a question... has anyone thats on desoxyn or taken it been on adderall long term before hand, and tried it afterwards?? adderall worked GREAT for me initally and i absolutely loved it... i'm hoping that desoxyn would be sort of like "starting over" with adderall or something similar. if anyone could give me some feedback before i try to press the issue w/my doc, that would be awesome. thanks!

lars
08-07-06, 11:54 PM
Hi Cyz19, I would be happy to share my experience from Adderall to Desoxyn. It is interesting that you speak of sedation from Adderall, as I actually found Adderall to be the most sedating of all the stimulants. The only other stimulant to have any sedation for me has been Desoxyn. That being the case I have still found Desoxyn to be a very therapuetic drug, but as a full time student the sedation (albeit mild) from Desoxyn is just not an advantage in a college classroom.

I have been taking stimulant medication since 1992 when I was initially diagnosed with this condition at the age of 22, and have tried all of the stimulants over the years since then. I find Dexedrine to be the most effective for mental alertness, and would put it at the top of my list. Coming in a close second would be Desoxyn with only two negative points. Point A: it is way over priced. Point B: it is mildly sedating. The other stimulants simply have too many powerful side effects for me. Even though methylphenidate allowed me mental alertness, it was VERY taxing on my cardiovascular system, and it also caused me to experience severe swings in mood when the drug would wear off, and when the initial effects would begin shortly after dosing.

I happen to have an appointment with my Dr. in the morning, and I plan on switching back to Dexedrine since school will be starting back up in a couple of weeks, and I will need the mental alertness that it provides. Granted Dexedrine is not as smooth in its effect as Desoxyn, and it is not as smooth when it wears off as Desoxyn, but it is important to weigh as many of the good and the bad factors as possible when choosing what works best for you.

I hope that you are able to find what works best for you.

attention
08-08-06, 12:21 AM
Desoxyn is one of the least scripted meds in the world-

lars
08-08-06, 12:48 AM
Desoxyn is one of the least scripted meds in the world-Well considering that it's only legal in the US & Chile certainlly limits its market a bit. :rolleyes:

Cyz19
08-10-06, 07:46 PM
:mad: well the doctor isn't "familiar enough" with desoxyn and has never prescribed it so she blew that idea out of the water. now she wants me to try this "patch" methylphenidate... same ingredients as ritalin is it not? i told her about how ritalin made me feel so sick and irritable, and that i have dermagraphasis or however its spelled which is a histamine disorder causing my skin to react very strongly to anything (bee stings, mosquito bites, TB tests, massage all cause a huge reaction w/redness and inflammation) yet she says try it still! ugh and its a 15mg patch of this crap and i've been on 90mg of adderall.. im so not looking forward to this... i'll have to keep u updated on whether i've turned into a dopey nauseas body rash w/a short attention span lol

lars
08-10-06, 10:33 PM
I'm sorry your Dr. was not more sympathetic to your pleas for something else, especially based on your previous reaction to Ritalin. I hope that the Daytrana works out better for you, and I certainlly hope that you keep us posted here at the site on how things work out.

Master Rat
08-11-06, 01:10 AM
Cyz19,

Do the world a favor, fire your doctor.:mad:

Ask your next doctor if you can try Dex and then Desoxyn.
Do a trail on both and pick the one that best fits your style.
Desoxyn is a very analytical thinking type drug, i find the sedating part a mild problem; however i was also sick at the time. I like Dex a lot, however it is too early to give a full report on it. I also mixed Desoxyn and Dex together with my doctors blessing and found that to work very well. I had a real bad case of fatigue lately that i am guessing was do to an urinary tract infection.
Don't be afraid of either drug they are probably the best on the market, especially if Ritalin hurts you.

Tom

LightShifter
08-19-06, 01:14 AM
Pompous doctor's who think they know our bodies better than our own personal experience need to be taken out of buisness. I agree with LARS. If I were you I'd start looking for a new doctor.... Trust your own expereince as the ultimate authority. Allowing others "authority" to drown this out is to allow your own personal brainwashing.... "To thine own self be True."

Coincidentally, I just posted this Bertrand Russell quote to my group members:

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
- Bertrand Russell


Blessings,

...Dan

lars
08-19-06, 01:40 AM
Thank you for your support Light Shifter. It's not just pompous Dr's who think they know whats best, but also admins at this site who do not allow a drug in their meications forum because they think they know what is best, even though said drug has been on the market longer than any other drug approved drug for this dissorder with the exception of Dexedrine. Unfortunately I will likely get banned for being this frank, or this post will be deleted within hours, but the truth is, people have been asking for several years around here why this drug is not included around here in the medications forum. It is clear that Desoxyn is not welcome, nor are those who speak to loudly about it like myself. I have been warned to tone it down, and frankly I do not care anymore.

I wish this drug was not as therapeutically safe as it is, because I would rather preach about something that is not as controversial. However, I am studying to take the MCAT, and since I plan on becoming a Dr one day I will not have the luxury of denying an approved FDA medication for treating this dissorder like the admins at this site are able to do. If a patient comes to me one day and brings up Desoxyn, I will have to discuss it with them, and I may actually have to prescribe it too based on the patients inability to find relief from other drugs. From my own experience I have found Desoxyn to be very therapeutic, in fact I have found it to be the most therapeutic of all the prescribed stimulants.

LightShifter
08-19-06, 02:21 AM
Lars:

It's bad enough we have to deal with stigmas regarding mental illness. To have to deal with stigmas regarding the medications we have to take as well adds insult to injury.

One of the other problems your dealing with in regard to this Desoxyn/ methamphetamine discussion is the additional stigma that's been placed upon methamphetamine with the Bush administration's focus on attempting to stop "the methamphetamine drug lab epidemic" that has been made publicly noticable by the signs in the (A & P) grocery stores serving notice of the need to limit pseudophed sales via the PAtriot Act.... What a bunch of bunk....leveraging the Patriot Act to serve such a purpose... But then again why not, they already have leveraged it to illegally spy on everyone. Yet another example of the "stupid people being cocksure".

Personally, I beleive the owners of this board are handling this situation very poorly. At the very least, they should provide an open/above board response as to why a seperate thread for a perfectly legal drug like Desoxyn is not allowed. This is supposed to be America not some communist country where people can't write or speak their minds.


Blessings,

...Dan

lars
08-19-06, 02:31 AM
I could not agree more Dan. I was actually asked by one of those ADD coaches that comes to this site if I was getting a kick back for mentioning Desoxyn as often as I was (LOL). What I found interesting (humorous actually) about that was that a person who claims to coach people with this dissorder would assume that I was being paid to talk about a drug that I and so many others (as well as anyone in the know) have personally have found so therapeutic. Needless to say, it's an uphill battle Dan, and do not be suprised if these post are deleted the next time you come here. There have already been post in this thread that have been deleted by admins here, and it appears that the subject of Desoxyn is not something that is very welcome at "The Ultimate World Online Resource Center For ADHD," which this site claims to be. Maybe I will be proven wrong, and this stuff will be allowed to stay in this thread. I doubt it though, but I certainlly hope I am wrong about that.

Peace be with you Dan, and thank you for your honesty brother, Lars

Andi
08-19-06, 11:15 AM
Lars, etal…

It is clear that there is frustration and a desire for self satisfaction. Understand that this is not a forum addressing one but many and although there has been some interest, little effort will be made when one presses or bullies their point of view. There is research to be done, policies and procedures to be followed before actions can be made. It is not just a matter of creating a new subforum but perhaps looking at the structure of the whole and questioning what can or cannot be done to improve the section. It’s unfortunate that instead of being able to focus on the matter there are other issues or posts such as these that need to be addressed. Patience is a virtue and sometimes people need to understand that although they want something NOW, it can’t happen in their timeframe. Please take the time to understand and note the following:

1. Conversations regarding Desoxyn and any other ADHD med are welcomed anywhere on these forums.

2. Staff retains the right to edit, delete, remove or moderate threads and posts as necessary on these forums.

3. Bashing/flaming forums staff or members will only get you suspended or banned. This is non-negotiable.

Good Day.

lars
08-19-06, 04:35 PM
Lars, etal…

It is clear that there is frustration and a desire for self satisfaction. Understand that this is not a forum addressing one but many and although there has been some interest, little effort will be made when one presses or bullies their point of view. There is research to be done, policies and procedures to be followed before actions can be made. It is not just a matter of creating a new subforum but perhaps looking at the structure of the whole and questioning what can or cannot be done to improve the section. It’s unfortunate that instead of being able to focus on the matter there are other issues or posts such as these that need to be addressed. Patience is a virtue and sometimes people need to understand that although they want something NOW, it can’t happen in their timeframe. Please take the time to understand and note the following:

1. Conversations regarding Desoxyn and any other ADHD med are welcomed anywhere on these forums.

2. Staff retains the right to edit, delete, remove or moderate threads and posts as necessary on these forums.

3. Bashing/flaming forums staff or members will only get you suspended or banned. This is non-negotiable.

Good Day.
Sorry for not being more patient, and I am also sorry for mentioning the name of another member in my post like I did.

LightShifter
08-20-06, 12:22 AM
Andi:

I think the frustration that's going on here lies much more in not getting any response from administration as to why a desoxyn thread cannot be created more than it has to do with obtaining the thread NOW.

I don't see any "bullying" going on here. The threats just recently posted by administration seem more bullying to me than anything else I've read here. There is simply a large degree of frustration about not getting any answer from administration. This "stonewalling" is what causes frustration to arise. If there could be some open discussion, then things could resolve but the silence and lack of response from administration provides no way to discuss or resolve the issue. This issue has been ongoing for sometime now and still no response is being given. I don't know anyone who wouldn't get frustrated if after a time no discussion or response was provided to their repeated request.

Certainly, adminstration can "pull power" whenever they choose on boards such as this. After all, you are the ones in charge. But I don't see that LARS or others who wish to have a seperate thread for desoxyn are doing anything that warrants such censorship. I would think administration would want to listen to and serve such interests rather than censor them - that is if they wanted to promote more interest in their site. Why become defensive against such a reasonable request?

Perhaps providing some kind of target date for a response might help ease tensions a bit. Just leaving this issue "hanging" creates kind of a "slow burn" that I think is frustrating to those members who take interest.

Blessings,

...Dan

Andrew
08-20-06, 11:04 AM
Dan, I am not speaking for Andi, but felt obligated to respond.

Lets try and clear this up. Administration isn't being asked for a THREAD on Desoxyn. We're being asked for a SUBFORUM for Desoxyn. Two completely different things. I and the other administrators have welcomed and encouraged (please see our comments elsewhere in the forums) discussions about Desoxyn and other (FDA and non FDA approved) ADHD medications. Never have we once bullied anyone into not discussing ADHD medications anywhere in the forums. So if its freedom to discuss Desoxyn or any other medication, you and every other member of the forums have had it all along.

However, what IS being asked, repeatedly, is that the format and structure of the forums be changed to accomodate the desires of a few...namely, to create a SUBFORUM for Desoxyn. Setting up a subforum takes more time, consideration and resources...not only in its creation, but in its ongoing management. Therefore, we don't just haphazardly create subforums, but take into account many factors, such as how many members are actually having discussions about the medication, historically how many threads have been created specifically about the med, etc. Since this is an international community, never once is consideration of whether or not a medication is FDA approved part of the decision making process.

We look at what's in the best overall interests of the forums community, and we then try to assign what limited resources we have to the areas that require them. These forums are run by very dedicated and extremely hard working volunteers that give of themselves tirelessly and with no compensation (and oftentime with no thanks) whatsoever to the seamless operation of this community. There is much that goes on behind the scenes to make a member's everyday experience a pleasant one here. We all strive to work hard at that, but sometimes a member's expectations or desires can't be met. In this case, a member wanted, very badly, for a subforum to be created...immediately. That's not how ADD Forums staff works. We'll evaluate the request, and we'll act upon it when we have all the information we need, and when and if its in the best interests of the community. Its hard to put a target date to make such a decision, when there are such limited resources available with which we're relying on to make such a decision.

Members are always welcomed to contact staff via private message, perhaps alleviating some of the apparently rising tensions. What also isn't apparent in the postings that were made in this thread, is that this member was in contact with administration via Private Message on several occassions, where we explained that we were working on evaluating the request. This member decided to vent his frustration in public anyway. This is his right, as is our obligation and right to react when a forum guideline is violated.

I welcome open dialogue, and look forward to hearing from all members when there is a request for new features for the forums. I can't promise that we'll be able to deliver on many if any of those requests, but we'll honestly look at each request and evaluate each and every one of them on their own merits. All we ask in return is that communications, whether via private message or via public posts, remain within the ADD Forum guidelines.

Thanks,

Andrew

LightShifter
08-20-06, 10:41 PM
Andrew:

Thanks so much for your clarification and insight. I think this will help other members as well to undertand why there have been delays and now also feel better about being heard.

This is a great site and I can appreciate how difficult it is sometimes when people don't understand how much of our own time we spend freely offering our services and funding our site (often out of our own pockets) to be helpful to others. I am an owner of an Emotional Support email group as well and believe me, I know where you're coming from.

Thank you again for your time and diligence Andrew. I'm sure you'll do all you can to be sure any reasonable request is heard, and implemented if practical and possible.

Blessings,

...Dan

MGDAD
08-21-06, 12:57 PM
It seems as though the criteria for creating a subforum, simply relates to "how many members are actually having discussions about the medication, historically how many threads have been created specifically about the med." Thanks for the response.

Crazy~Feet
08-21-06, 02:09 PM
Coincidentally, I just posted this Bertrand Russell quote to my group members:

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
- Bertrand Russell

Psssst, hey Dan? That's Hyperion's sigline.

Crazy :cool:

Andrew
08-21-06, 03:55 PM
It seems as though the criteria for creating a subforum, simply relates to "how many members are actually having discussions about the medication, historically how many threads have been created specifically about the med." Thanks for the response.

No, there are others...such as, do we have the resources (read: staff available to moderate an additional subforum). Clearly, its not all black and white, but I appreciate everyone taking the time to try and understand some of the things involved in making the forums "hum".

renrac
09-04-06, 06:25 AM
An interesting discussion….

This is my first post, but I have read these forums with great interest.



I have taken nearly all the ADHD meds, usually at well over the recommended dosage. I have an extremely high tolerance to medication, what is often referred to as a "fast metabolizer". After trying everything for the ADHD, I am now prescribed Desoxyn. My dosage is 70mg day. I take the 5mg Ovation pills-14 per day.



The fact is that there is a great deal of misinformation and lack of valid information about this medication on the WEB. Search engines pull up lots of information about the Desoxyn, which is invalid since it is referring to the previous version made by Abbott. The chemical is the same, but the newer Ovation tablet release much faster than Abbott’s version. The fact is that the rate of release makes the Desoxyn of today much harder to regulate a proper therapeutic blood level. It is undoubtedly the greatest limitation of Desoxyn 5mg IR made by Ovation.



As is often pointed out, Desoxyn is not often prescribed for ADHD patients for a number of reasons. It is true that this medication is available in only a fast release (IR) form. It has been pushed to the side as an ADHD medication and, until recently, was more frequently given for obesity and narcolepsy. For the ADHD patient, it is no wonder that even many experienced Doctors treating ADHD have never heard of, let alone prescribed this medication. Also, this chemical, (pure Methamphetamine HCL) has been become the poster child for drug addiction, Meth Labs, and all that. Despite the fact that Desoxyn is not the problem, and the drug can be the most effective for certain ADHD patients, many patients and Doctors operate in a climate of ignorance and fear, not science, when considering this medication (if they even know about it).



For no other reason than the fact that the ADD Forums could offer the "go to" site for those seeking reliable and current information about Desoxyn, I think a Desoxyn sub-forum would be a true service to the ADHD community. The community of ADHD patients and Doctors is growing worldwide and no one can dispute that stimulant medication (including Desoxyn) is the single greatest therapy available for the treatment of ADHD. This can be a truly devastating life-altering illness and effective medications like Desoxyn need to be talked about and reviewed. Does it make sense to give medications like Clonidine and Wellbutrin (both good drugs) greater deference in the ADD Forums than a truly effective legal medical stimulant like Desoxyn? Only a climate of fear engendered by politics, not science or medicine can be causing this to happen.



Desoxyn proved to be the most effective medication for me, and I would be the last person to suggest that it is the right medication for everybody. Personally, I think its greatest limitation therapeutically is the fact that it is not available in an extended release form. Ovation, the manufacturer, talked about making an extended release version a couple of years ago, but has not gone forward. In its currently available IR form, it probably would not be the right medication for many who would otherwise benefit from if it were available in an (ER) extended release form. Taking the Ovation 5 mg IR requires adherence to a very precise dosing schedule. Otherwise, it is more up and down on mood than Dexedrine IR. People often talk about how Desoxyn "lasts longer" and there is no need for an ER version. Not true, Desoxyn 5mg IR is effective no longer than Dexedrine 5mg was for me. It just works better. The Ovation 5mg Desoxyn of today is reformulated for even faster release than the Abbott version. This fast release might have been good for using Desoxyn for the treatment of Obesity, which it is no longer prescribed for. However, for ADHD use, a slower consist release with a longer duration of action is what is needed. The drug is great but the delivery needs to be retooled for the general ADHD patient that might benefit.



Based on my own experience, Desoxyn would be a far better general ADHD medication, and in much greater use, if it were reformulated into an ER version like Dexedrine Spansule, or Adderall XR. Perhaps some consensus among those who take this medication might lead to Ovation going back to the drawing board and creating an ER version.



If there was more discussion among ADHD patients taking Desoxyn, it might become clearer how this medication could best help those with ADHD.

lars
09-04-06, 05:54 PM
Hi renrac, and welcome to the ADD Forums. I agree with you about the benefit of having a subforum for Desoxyn here, and I also agree with you concerning the benefit of an extended release version of this drug.

I would not hold your breath concerning Ovation working on an ER version, but I hope I'm wrong about that. In the meantime I would suggest that you talk to your Dr. about the possibility of having a local compound pharmacy creating an extended release version of Desoxyn just for you. This is perfectly legal, and is done in cases where a formulation of a particular drug has been discontinued. It's certainlly worth looking into.

Chris2
09-04-06, 06:56 PM
All first-line medications should have a sub-forum, I don’t see how that can be debated. The only reason most doctors use it as a 2nd and 3rd line medication, is because they don’t like the sound of the word "Methamphetamine". Which isn’t a very scientific reason.:rolleyes:

I do understand that the mods also don't what to be seen as giving into demands of people bugging them for things. But having a subforum for a drug that is very effective and obscure is most in need of a subforum, to educate more people about it. As mister spock once said "the good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one"

Master Rat
09-04-06, 07:24 PM
renrac,

Great post. Desoxyn last 7.5 hours for me and peaks at 2 hours after dose. My formula to get around the peaks is to equally divide my daily dose every four hours or three total doses. Plus I add to first dose 7.5mg of Dex (kick start ) in the morning and a wind down dose I add 5mg of dex at night to my last dose. Desoxyn may be instant release but it takes longer to kick in than Dex.

I agree Desoxyn is a highly mis-understood drug. My prefference of scipts would be Dex, Desoxyn, Ritalin.

Tom

renrac
09-05-06, 06:40 AM
Hi all,



Thanks Lars. I appreciate the suggestion about using a compounding Pharmacy to produce a longer extended release Methamphetamine HCL (generic active ingredient of Desoxyn) version as a substitute for Desoxyn IR 5mg. I actually did look into this a few months ago and it can be done. For now, I have been managing the 5mg IR tablets well. I am maintaining a precise dosing schedule, which I have found to be necessary for me to get the best therapeutic response. As long as I can stay on schedule, I will be able to get the most benefit out of the IR and not worry about an ER. I am hoping that Ovation will eventually get back to the extended release Desoxyn idea they raised two years ago, and that an Ovation version of the former Desoxyn Gradumet will make a comeback. From what I have read about the former Desoxyn Gradumet, it appears that it was a very effective extended release medication for ADHD symptoms. Unfortunately, I have not read much commentary about the use and benefits of the Abbott Desoxyn Gradumet for adult ADHD. Adult ADHD started to get on the radar just as the Desoxyn Gradumet was being discontinued. It seems to have been given more to treat narcolepsy than ADHD. Anyone with Adult ADHD have experience with the Gradumet by Abbott?



I also appreciated Master Rat’s comment regarding adding Dexedrine to Desoxyn for improved effectiveness. I have not personally taken two different stimulant medications at the same time, but I have read numerous accounts of ADHD patients who have done so under Doctor supervision and who have had good results. The dosage strategy suggested seems reasonable to me based on my experience with both medications (but that is always for my Doctor to decide). From what I know about Dexedrine and Desoxyn, I think they are probably the most chemically compatible Cerebral Stimulant medications for ADHD. My Doctor is not a fan of mixing stimulants, so he may not consider this strategy appropriate for me. Since your Desoxyn dosing schedule is similar to mine (minus the Dexedrine), I will do some further research about this. Thank you for sharing your experience. I have not taken Dexedrine in a while, but I think I remember Dexedrine (SKF) was just a tad slower on release than Desoxyn for me. Desoxyn IR releases in around 15 minutes. Dexedrine took 20+minutes, as I remember.

Master Rat
09-05-06, 01:41 PM
renrac,

I agree both drugs do start to release rather quickly, but for me Dex kicks harder and faster than Desoxyn. Meaning I get to a therapudic dose quicker and I feel wakeful quicker. But Desoxyn in the long run allows for clearer brain.

Tom

charlesklein
03-15-07, 02:27 AM
The Us Air Force Uses Desoxyn For Its Pilots If Its Good Enough For Them Its Good For Me! If Other Drugs Were Better They Would Use Them The Air Force Is Cheap Desoxyn Is Expensive The Most Expensive $150 A Bottle Verses $50 For Adderall So If Addreall Would Work They Would Use It

charlesklein
03-15-07, 02:36 AM
DESOXYN WAS MADE ORGINALLY BY ABBOTT LABS NOW ITS MADE BY OVATION AND THEIR IS A QUALITY DIFFERANCE FROM WHAT I HAVE READ SO DESOXYN IS NOT NECESSARILLY DESOXYN AND BRAND CAN MAKE A DIFFERANCE

i am new to this all never used drugs before now 47 most of my life is destroyed i suspect i could have gotten help from desoxyn now tring to find it but having problem becasue others abused it.

i am on SSI and do not know if county permits it if anybody has any suggestions on how to obtain it plaese conatct me i am available threw e-mail

charlesklein
03-15-07, 04:36 AM
POSSABLE DESOXYN STORY- my freind was obeise he had fat arms legs and pot belly from birth in high school he smoked marijuana buts thats all he felt it was ok to do a drug if it came from a plant.

i had not seen him for a month when i saw him next he was skin and bones and he sytayed that way for the rest of his life his brother said he had been up for 3 weeks and never slept.

he would not be involved in hard drugs what ever he did he smoked it he would not due pills. but nobody not even him remebers he is of less then avaergae intelagence.

we can say he did some kind of speed but what he found was medically important can this be done with desoxyn

meadd823
03-15-07, 07:12 AM
Welcome to the forums charlesklein. . . .

The Us Air Force Uses Desoxyn For Its Pilots If Its Good Enough For Them Its Good For Me! If Other Drugs Were Better They Would Use Them The Air Force Is Cheap Desoxyn Is Expensive The Most Expensive $150 A Bottle Verses $50 For Adderall So If Addreall Would Work They Would Use It

Okay now about the military statement I will have to disagree. There is no evidence that I have been able to find that the US military current gives it's members this medication . While searching I did find out even a legal prescription by a doctor will cause you to be disqualified from joining the armed forces. . .

Allow me to provide the source of my information along with a quote from the article itself.

ADDA (http://www.add.org/articles/armedforces.html)

Note that the fact of a behavior disorder is not disqualifying unless it is likely to prevent reasonable adaptation to military life. Therefore, the existence of AD/HD, in itself, is not disqualifying for military service.


Medication: The current use of medications in order to assist in managing the symptoms of AD/HD is per se disqualifying even if the medication would effectively enable the applicant to adapt to military life.


DoD Directive 6130.3 provides in part:

current use of medication to improve or maintain academic skills (e.g., methlyphenidate hydrochloride) is disqualifying.

Therefore, many applicants with ADD are effectively barred from military service.
***End Quote

~underling Mine~

I am a stickler for accuracy and provision of the facts to the best of my knowledge, it is a me thing really.

Thanks for letting me clear this up .

charlesklein
03-15-07, 07:28 AM
I am not a drug person maybe i should not use the word drug i alawys thought the drug people to be nonproductive and thats being polite about it frreaks would be a better word.

then i found out that the US air force uses desoxyn and 25% of harvard uses adderall WELL EGG ON MY FACE I payed the price for my stupitity with my life i am now 47 years old and the drugs could have made a differance. but we had no computers then either.

thanks to the computer and people like lars maybe i will at least know what direction to travil in.

if anybody had suggested desoxyn and then told me it was meth i would have run away

we not only need education we need reeducation we neeed to counter the meth storys most of my life is destroyed from the "JUST SAY NO" drug advertisments i said no look were i am now.

charlesklein
03-15-07, 07:34 AM
alright correction the air force only gives it to the jet fighter pilots on missions when flying combat

i did not mean the whole airforce was fryied just the pilots!

the exact perscription is 5mg every 2-4 hours

emo537
03-15-07, 12:37 PM
Hey everyone,

this is my first post in this thread...as far as i know.

Desoxyn has me pretty interested...i guess simply because drugs, medicine, pscyhology, the brain, and brain chemistry are really fascinating to me. I'm going to check this online pharmacy to see if they have pictures...

SOMETHING A LITTLE RANDOM:
If you want to learn about a completely different drug that is way up and above the other standard prescriptions...check out Fentanyl. That stuff is CRAZY!! haha ...80 times as potent as Morphine!

Anyway...i just thought i'd say something on the matter...

eric

emo537
03-15-07, 12:49 PM
Ok, well, here's what I found on the website i'm constantly resorting to, to get info.

They only have Desoxyn in 5mg tablets.

The manufacturer: OVATION

Ingredient Name: METHAMPHETAMINE (meth-am-FET-a-mine)

It says the price for 100 TABLETS is $265.99. Not cheap, but not as expensive as some other drugs...

The website is: http://www.walgreens.com/library/finddrug/druginfo1.jsp?particularDrug=Desoxyn&id=1451

gh342000
03-15-07, 10:57 PM
DESOXYN WAS MADE ORGINALLY BY ABBOTT LABS NOW ITS MADE BY OVATION AND THEIR IS A QUALITY DIFFERANCE FROM WHAT I HAVE READ SO DESOXYN IS NOT NECESSARILLY DESOXYN AND BRAND CAN MAKE A DIFFERANCE

i am new to this all never used drugs before now 47 most of my life is destroyed i suspect i could have gotten help from desoxyn now tring to find it but having problem becasue others abused it.

i am on SSI and do not know if county permits it if anybody has any suggestions on how to obtain it plaese conatct me i am available threw e-mail
My local pharmacy carries Desoxyn, and any pharmacy can order it if you have a prescription.

gh342000
03-15-07, 11:02 PM
alright correction the air force only gives it to the jet fighter pilots on missions when flying combat

i did not mean the whole airforce was fryied just the pilots!

the exact perscription is 5mg every 2-4 hours
Actually, the Air Force does not use Desoxyn, they use Dexedrine. Different drug. An Air Force buddy of mine flies B2 bombers. He has Dexedrine in his mission kit.

steviefranchise
03-16-07, 01:07 AM
Lars,

I have read much of your input regarding Desoxin with great interest.

I need a high dose of Adderall to be effective and now, since being on it since December of last year I am to the point of having consistant high blood pressure.

I take a combo of XR and IR and am getting to the point where I don't think that I can take the Adderall much longer.

My doc has been very helpful and flexible to try different variations including trying Focalin which gave me a bad result. Ritalin type meds don't work well for me at all and I don't see many options on the horizon.

I ask about the Focalin in order to lower my overall dosage which I would love to do and perhaps there is a bit of hope that the Desoxin may be an option for me.

I am becoming discouraged especially since I have had many good days after actually experiencing great clarity and calmness that I never had before.

Lars, any thoughts on the blood pressure issue and comparison of dosages of Adderall vs. Desoxin?

Thanks much in advance for your response!

MafaldaMay
03-16-07, 01:14 AM
Desoxyn is not commercially available here in Canada. I suppose it was not approved by Canada Health Agency, probably because of the fear it would generate with the public regarding addiction. And now that we have a conservative federal government, things are not about to change...

However, as a person with ADHD who, so far, reacted poorly to Ritalin and negatively to Concerta and Adderall XR, I am interested in knowing about all the possibilities that exist for ADHDers, even if a few of those medications are not available for me as a Canadian. Who knows, one day I might move to a different country (although I don't really think so). Or the medication might become approved here after the studying of its positive use in countries where it is already approved.

My point is knowledge is something that trespasses borders... you never know when you might actually benefit from learning about things that initially appear to be useless. This is more or less what we want our kids to keep in mind when they tell us they hate school and they don't know why they're "forced" to go: they'll greatly benefit from it later.

So, even for me, who cannot legally get Dexosyn (and who won't get it illegally either), I would be interested in a subforum about that medication. I can't be the only one in Canada who thinks that way, much less in the rest of the world. And people who actually take that medication would definitely benefit from such a subforum. It would be a great sign of respect from managers of this forum, in my opinion, to give Desoxyn users their own section where they can exchange their experience, thoughts and advice about that medication; as well as a good place to learn about it for other ADHDers. :)

emo537
03-16-07, 03:33 AM
Hey everyone,

I agree with MafaldaMay. There should be a Desoxyn subforum to benefit people that take it and people that want to learn more about it.

MafaldaMay, you stated your points well!

eric

charlesklein
03-16-07, 04:14 AM
reply for gh342000 just because yourB2 freind uses dex does not mean that the F16 dont use desoxyn

maybe the needs of the f16 are differant from the b2 maybe every type of aircraft has a differant drug

F104 pilots were given cyanide. If you got assigned to a f104 it was guaranteed you would crash and burn generally during take off due to engine failure. but it was a good wing design.

unfortunitly like desoxyn it got a bad reputation and was never used again

charlesklein
03-16-07, 04:21 AM
What is the difference between dexadrine and desoxyn? From the reads according to Lars it sounds like desoxyn is sedative and dexadrine is not is there a chemical reason

charlesklein
03-16-07, 04:33 AM
Is desoxyn really crack cocaine with the only difference being the available dosage

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desoxyn being 5 mg were crack cocaine is perhaps 50mg.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

What would be a good guess of what the average dosage assuming such a thing existed is for a puff of crack cocaine?

MeGgHeAd
03-16-07, 04:54 AM
Desoxyn is not crack cocaine. Desoxyn is methampetamine and is very closely related to Dexedrine (dextro-amphetamine), same overall structure, except that Desoxyn has a methyl group (CH3) attached to its amine nitrogen (and one less hydrogen on the same nitrogen). So they act differently.

charlesklein
03-16-07, 05:01 AM
Fentanyl seems to be a form of heroin can that be used for add? can morphoine be used for add? lets stick to add solutions. I want to improve my brains not burn them out. I do not want to join grace slick down the rabbit hole.

charlesklein
03-16-07, 05:09 AM
reply to meghead what exactly is the differance bewteen desoxyn and dexedrine sorry i do not understand or need to know the chemical reasons just what it does.

is dexedrine better for the mind then desoxyn

MeGgHeAd
03-16-07, 05:35 AM
reply to meghead what exactly is the differance bewteen desoxyn and dexedrine sorry i do not understand or need to know the chemical reasons just what it does.
In ADHD patients, therapeutic doses of either of these drugs can enhance concentration and alertness, and help reduce distractabilty and impulsivity.

is dexedrine better for the mind then desoxyn
I can't really answer whether dexedrine is "better for the mind" compared to Desoxyn. Never tried Desoxyn. Desoxyn and Dexedrine are both central nervous system stimulants and act much in the same way, and involve the same neurotransmitters in the brain. Desoxyn is thought to be somewhat more potent than Dexedrine.

Response to ADHD medications differ between individuals. Best to talk to your doctor about medication for ADHD, if that is what you need. You can't make a decision on what drugs is best for you, until you've begun treatment...and you obviously can't begin treatment without seeing your doctor. Good luck to you.

lars
03-16-07, 06:01 AM
Lars, any thoughts on the blood pressure issue and comparison of dosages of Adderall vs. Desoxin?
Brother we each respond so differently to these drugs more often than not that it would be difficult for anyone to say for sure comparing dosages between these two drugs unless they were only speaking about dosages for themselves. For example, Adderall was the only stimulant medication that caused me to experience pronounced sedation. None of the other stimulants did that to me. All of the others offered me stimulation to one degree or another.


I would definately recommend that you discuss this with your Dr.

chad31687
03-16-07, 11:12 AM
Diagrams of the amphetamine and methamphetamine molecules show them to be nearly identical in chemical structure. Below is a quote from a webpage describing the difference between Adderall and methamphetamine (Desoxyn).

“The ‘meth’ from Meth-amphetamine comes from the chemical name ‘methyl’. The chemical Methamphetamine is composed of an amphetamine molecule with an additional methyl group attached to its nitrogen (amine group). For Methamphetamine, the methyl allows it a little better fat solubility and thus better penetration into the brain.” http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=2846


Better fat solubility likely explains why methamphetamine is more potent and lasts longer in the brain. I’ve read posts elsewhere in which Desoxyn is described as not only more efficacious for ADD than Adderall, but “cleaner” (less side effects) as well.

As the above website mentions, however, methamphetamines carry with them a considerable stigma. It’s perception as an illicit street drug, with a negative social impact and substantial health risks for chronic users, is nearly universal. The stigma makes it difficult to think of methamphetamine as medication even though it's very nearly the same as the active ingredient in Adderall.




This sounds to me like meth is, in a way, similar to adderall as crack is to cocaine. Better ingestion, one's body makes better use of the drug, etc. I don't believe meth lasts much longer than adderall at all though. I have had a short episode with m-amphetamine (in pill form), 40 mg made for a powerful 6 hour tweak, followed by decent stimulation for a good 10 hours after, and as for addictiveness, yeah I used to fiend for it for a few days after real bad. An acquaintence of mine did a 30 mg IR and felt similar effects, a little less tweaked, but for just as long. I also heard that harder drugs like crack and m-amphetamine release much more dopamine than less hard drugs, causing the massive difference in stimulation and addiction.

lars
03-16-07, 11:36 AM
This sounds to me like meth is, in a way, similar to adderall as crack is to cocaine. Better ingestion, one's body makes better use of the drug, etc. I don't believe meth lasts much longer than adderall at all though..
From what I understand methamphetamine has a little bit shorter half life than amphetamine. I was surprised by that when I learned it I recall.

Here is a link to an older thread from here at the forums that was all about the differences between methamphetamine and amphetamine:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34371&highlight=methamphetamine+action

Once there check out the #3 post on page one of the thread. It was one of my post and it contains a couple of links that might help you better understand the difference between the two.

Bugs-n-Bunnys
03-16-07, 12:17 PM
Desoxyn is offered by Caremark which is the 3 month mail in pharmacy used by BCBS of NC. Here is the info stuff on Desoxyn from the Caremark website.

It IS prescriped to children greater than 6 years of age. it's MAIN indication is ADHD.

I have BSBC of NC and THEY suggested it to my doctor after dexedrine was discontinued. I get a 3 month supply at a time. I take four (4) 5mg pills every four hours during the day for a total of 80mgs a day. I get 1440 pills at a time, in really big bottles! I get the funniest looks from people when it's time for my next dose. I have to carry the bottles with me because of the lable proving it is my prescription in case police or somebody ever needs to know.

It has literally SAVED my life. So for those who don't know any better and are against "just because" - STOP IT and SHUT UP. People like you are fueling the fire that is preventing this medication from possibly saving another persons life.

Those of you with Blue Cross and Blue Sheild insurance - look into it. BCBS will be happy to speak to your doctor for you. They did for me!



Description: Methamphetamine is an oral sympathomimetic amine with CNS-stimulant activity. It is used for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and exogenous obesity. Methamphetamine's effects are mediated by the action of norepinephrine centrally and peripherally, and appetite-suppression activity is believed to be in the lateral hypothalamic feeding center. Amphetamines in general have a high potential for abuse and addiction. This drug was approved by the FDA in 1943.
Contraindications/Precautions: Advanced arteriosclerosis, symptomatic cardiovascular disease, moderate to severe hypertension, hyperthyroidism, glaucoma, agitated states, history of drug abuse, during or within 14 days of MAO inhibitors.
Drug Interactions:
See drug interactions content of other amphetamine monographs (i.e., Amphetamine; Dextroamphetamine or Dextroamphetamine for further information).
Guanethidine: Amphetamines can decrease the antihypertensive effect of guanethidine.
Atomoxetine and Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs): Can increase the pressor response of amphetamines.
Tricyclic antidepressants: Can decrease the effects of amphetamines.
Urinary acidifiers: Decrease the half-life, decrease the duration of action, and shorten the clinical effects of amphetamines.
Urinary alkalinizers: Increase the half-life, increase the duration of action, and prolong the clinical effects of amphetamines.
Adverse Reactions: Palpitations, sinus tachycardia, hypertension, overstimulation, restlessness, dizziness, insomnia, dyskinesia, euphoria, dysphoria, xerostomia, diarrhea, constipation, anorexia, weight loss, impotence.
Dosage:
For treatment of ADHD:
Children >= 6 years: Initially, 5 mg PO once or twice daily. Increase by increments of 5 mg at weekly intervals. Usual effective dose is 20—25 mg PO daily divided into two doses.

For adjunctive treatment of obesity:
Adults: 5 mg PO 30 minutes before each meal, or 10—15 mg of long-acting form PO every morning. Treatment should last for only a few weeks.
<HR align=center width="90%" SIZE=0>



Indications: • attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
• obesity

lars
03-16-07, 02:01 PM
Thanks for such a wonderful post about such a wonderful drug Bugs-n-Bunnys.

Several years ago after reading other reports from people expressing having had a similar experience like you expressed about Desoxyn as a lifesaver, I finally decided I had to check it out for myself, as long as my Dr. agreed of course. I had read several reports of people who had tried each of the other prescription stimulants, but it was not until they tried Desoxyn that they ever experienced any therapeutic effect from a stimulant.

It was after learning this that I thought to myself, "wait a moment, I've tried all the other prescription stimulants like a lot of those folks reported having done, I had experimented with different combos periodically like some reported doing," for Pete's sake, I was doing the work, I was baby stepping. :)

Once I realized the potential benefit of the stuff from all the "lifesaving" reports I had read, I got so excited about the possibility of having it prescribed that I began to preach the gospel of Desoxyn to just about anyone that would listen. By the time my Dr. appointment came around I could hardly wait to discuss it with him. It was certainlly worth the effort to learn as much as I could about Desoxyn before the appointment. It is without a doubt, the most therapuetic stimulant I have ever used. There were virtually no side effects for me, other than the cost. :o

emo537
03-16-07, 06:46 PM
wow, this all sounds pretty good about Desoxyn. I know from a lot of my own research that there's a lot of "Over-hype" about a lot of drugs.

Lars, I'm wondering where you found those articles about all the people having good experiences with it. Also, I'm taking Adderall XR 30mg right now...and I know you're not a doctor, but if Adderall wasn't working like you wanted it to, would you then move to Dexedrine? And if Dexedrine didn't work, consult a doctor about Desoxyn?

When you say you've really tried everything for your ADHD can you name off your tail of medications and combinations?

thanks

eric

lars
03-17-07, 12:46 AM
Hey Eric, great questions man.

However, I do need to clarify one thing, I did not read any "articles" man. I just read online "reports." I'm really sorry if I might have done anything to give you the impression I was referring to peer reviewed articles if that's what you might of thought. I just read online "reports" like those here at this site, or at other sites like remedyfind.com among other places online where people report their own personal experiences with these medications.

To answer your question about what I would do if the Adderall was not working for me, yes I would switch to Dexedrine just like you described, but I am not so sure I would immediately go to Desoxyn first after the Dexedrine or not. Even though Desoxyn seems like a good next step, after trying Focalin last summer I found it to really rank right up there with Dexedrine and Desoxyn in many ways. That being said, I would likely try the Focalin prior to trying out the Desoxyn if I was going through the process again. The reason I did not choose this route initially was due to the fact that Focalin was not on the market when I started taking Desoxyn.

Here is my trail of stimulant medications since 1992 as you requested:
Ritalin (including every generic available)
Adderall (no generic available when I took it)
Dexedrine (including every generic available except the Ethex brand generic)
Desoxyn (no generic available when I took it)
Focalin (no generic avialable when I took it)

Here are the stimulant combos I took:
Ritalin/Dexedrine
Focalin/Dexedrine
Ritalin/Desoxyn
Dexedrine/Desoxyn

emo537
03-17-07, 01:09 AM
Hey Lars, thanks for the reply. Sorry about the reports/articles mixup...just a careless error I guess :-/

Yeah, I do ask quite a few questions...I'm a very curious person. I think I'll look more into Focalin, as I only know a little about it. Am I right in saying that Focalin is to Ritalin as Dexedrine is to Adderall? (The whole ingredients thing...Focalin and Dexedrine are just pure doses of only the "Dextro" ingredients from Ritalin and Adderall?) I guess I have some questions that should be proposed on another category...so I might just do that...

Thanks again for the feedback!

eric

P.S. - I almost forgot...are the admins or moderators considering making a sub-category for Desoxyn?

lars
03-17-07, 01:42 AM
Hey Lars, thanks for the reply. Sorry about the reports/articles mixup...just a careless error I guess :-/That's quite ok man. I do it all the time.


Am I right in saying that Focalin is to Ritalin as Dexedrine is to Adderall? (The whole ingredients thing...Focalin and Dexedrine are just pure doses of only the "Dextro" ingredients from Ritalin and Adderall?)You are exactly right in comparing Focalin & Dexedrine to Ritalin & Adderall respectively.



P.S. - I almost forgot...are the admins or moderators considering making a sub-category for Desoxyn?
Good question. The moderators are not in charge of making subforums. The last I heard concerning this issue was that the admins were waiting to see how much interest there was in Desoxyn.

I suspect that eventually with enough post like yours, and other members who post on the subject of Desoxyn, that we might one day find a Desoxyn subforum here at the site. Time, and interest will tell I guess.

charlesklein
03-17-07, 02:51 AM
i am a social security story SSI now 47 most of my life is gone because i just said no to drugs its really sad.

the real importance for this web site for me is in the education i need to combat the county hospital i get the doctors that nobody else would hire most of them are completly irrational!

i said the word desoxyn to the doctor who FLIPED out! her exact words "WELL DONT WORRY I WOULD NEVER PERSCRIBE THAT FOR YOU" i was not worried i was asking for it

but this is how they talk nothing they say seems to have anyhting to do with what i said.

when i asked exactly what the problem was with this drug she said "THEIR ARE BETTER DRUGS AVAIABLE" the question was not answered when i asked which drugs she said their are "THOUSANDS" of better drugs thanks to lars i think i have a list of all 6 this is what the county is like.

then she tryied to sell me prosac they seem to want everybody to take prosac i am a college student its were i try to send all my time and i can see no bi polar reasons again thanks to your web site.

I CAN RESPECT YOUR SAYING TALK TO A DOCTOR BUT FROM YOUR POSTS I CAN SEE RELATIONSHIPS. you people should not be scared to spaek your mind in many cases you know more then the doctor you have taken the drug.

charlesklein
03-17-07, 02:57 AM
a freind called me afetr 10 years he had done prosac his wife divorced him his new girl freind left him saying get ride of the prosac i personally htink it may have caused him brain damage.

in just 6 months prosac destroyed his life this was anther reason i never did the drugs people calling you who you have not heard from for 10 years to warn you. the doctors are causeing quite a problems becasue they do not use the drugs and never talk about the victims that did.

when i told my prosac story to my doctopr she simply said "OH WELL THEIR WILL ALWAYS BE THOSE! TYPE OF STORYS"

charlesklein
03-17-07, 03:04 AM
a freind called me afTer 10 years he had done prosac his wife divorced him his new girl freind left him saying get ride of the prosac i personally Think it may have caused him brain damage.

in just 6 months prosac destroyed his life this was anther reason i never did the drugs people calling you who you have not heard from for 10 years to warn you.

the doctors are causeing quite a problem becasue they do not use the drugs and never talk about the victims that did.

when i told my prosac story to my doctopr she simply said "OH WELL THEIR WILL ALWAYS BE THOSE! TYPE OF STORYS"

has anybody ever heard of any HORROR storys from dexdrine or desoxyn

he blindly obayed the doctor and payed the price and you tax dollars pay for the damage.

for you people its simple you have real doctors i have to educate myself and ask evry serious questions of my QUACKS! this site is saving lives and tax dollars im not brain dead yet from porsac! believe me i do not have the symtoms! i seem to match narcolepsy or add or a combination

charlesklein
03-17-07, 03:18 AM
for me its a war and education is the bullet the questions kill them dead you can see it in their face the hatred and anger and then they have no real answer they just side step the question.

this is how i identfy them spot them by HITTING them with the question and seeing the result as they FLIP out on me.
this web site is the ammo.

beware the doctor they may send you on the last trip you will ever take.

lars
03-17-07, 05:12 AM
has anybody ever heard of any HORROR storys from dexdrine
Here's one: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,76438,00.html

charlesklein
03-17-07, 06:33 AM
Lars your very interesting!

double plus good you get double word score! well that brings severial posts together.

I thought that dexedrine was suppose to help clear the mind maybe they did not take enough!

well it does appaer you proved me wrong i guess they do use dexedrine and not desoxyn well egg on my face again!

do you really beleve the drugs were in any way to blame for what they did!

this is not what i would call a reality situation.

its intersting to note the air force seems to feel dexedrine is some type of "NO DOZ" caffine pill

Crazy~Feet
03-17-07, 06:53 AM
I thought that dexedrine was suppose to help clear the mind maybe they did not take enough! Stimulants only clear the mind for a person with ADHD, who has some areas of the brain that are sluggish. For person without ADHD, all stimulant medications are speed. Naturally speed would keep a pilot awake during flights over 10 hours long if administered in the "proper" dose.


.

gh342000
03-17-07, 01:38 PM
Lars your very interesting!

its intersting to note the air force seems to feel dexedrine is some type of "NO DOZ" caffine pill
Why is it interesting? Caffeine is a stimulant just like dexedrine. The reason they give dexedrine is that caffeine will not keep you awake for 30 hours, and to stay awake that long on caffeine would require lots of dosing and terrible side effects. But dexedrine will keep you awake for 30 hours.

Now if I was a pilot, the dexedrine probably would not keep me awake. Adderall and methylphenidate products don't keep me awake. I can easily fall asleep after taking the stimulants.

charlesklein
03-17-07, 10:09 PM
to gh342000 you mis the point!

its interesting becasue while everybody else is claiming dexedrine is a death drug the air force is passing it out like caffine pills which is what they seem to feel it is.

i do not think there is anyhting wrong with caffine pills or dexedrine

if used by a normal person its like speed so you are hyper but not crazy that not a reason to blow up your own people.

he did not do LSD and claim he was attacking godzilla

can dexedrine make a normal person a fool? hyper is one thing a fool is anther could it impair judgment?

i think they are fools instaed of just saying we made a mistake and probably are not fit to be pilots they try to blame the drugs only a fool does that and claerly the air force does not think their is anyhting wrong with dexedrine or normal people using it

charlesklein
03-17-07, 10:15 PM
to emo537 i tryied to answer about why make dexedrine but it was destroyed by the administrater

is this stuff being read as i type it perhaps understandably nothing illegal just not appriate talk i discussed religion in combination with the answer

any way their seems to be a need for it to be produced in smaller doses 1 mg not 5 so more accuarte dose can be done also it is very expensive so was curious if i could make it myself

charlesklein
03-17-07, 10:36 PM
to gh342000

i am extreamily curious about what you are saying about falling asleep while using the drugs.

part of my problem is staying awake i can sleep 12 hours a day

you are saying adderall and desoxyn make you fall asleep but dexedrine does not

charlesklein
03-17-07, 10:44 PM
to gh342000 ok read it again now it seems you are saying that none of the drugs keep you awake?

are you saying onply normal people would be kept awake?

i am interested in add drugs because they seem to improve mental alterness what words should i use to describe this and they help you keep awake.

you can say ask your doctor but i am on county and they refuse to talk about it they really are all crazy they think if you use it you will DIE they really beliveev this thats why i happy to contact you people who seem to be living threw it all productivly

except for the jet figther pilots.

gh342000
03-18-07, 04:10 PM
to gh342000 you mis the point!

its interesting becasue while everybody else is claiming dexedrine is a death drug the air force is passing it out like caffine pills which is what they seem to feel it is.

i do not think there is anyhting wrong with caffine pills or dexedrine

if used by a normal person its like speed so you are hyper but not crazy that not a reason to blow up your own people.

he did not do LSD and claim he was attacking godzilla

can dexedrine make a normal person a fool? hyper is one thing a fool is anther could it impair judgment?

i think they are fools instaed of just saying we made a mistake and probably are not fit to be pilots they try to blame the drugs only a fool does that and claerly the air force does not think their is anyhting wrong with dexedrine or normal people using it
How did I miss the point? Who feels it is a death drug? It is simply a stimulant. Period. The reason it is vilified is because of misunderstanding. Does it impair judgement if you take 10mg of Dexedrine, most likely not it is generally well tolerated in the body. If you insulfate 100mg, your judgement is going to be impaired.

ADD people need the stimulants to keep their lives in control just like a pilot on a 24 hour mission needs it to stay alert and able to complete the mission.

gh342000
03-18-07, 04:20 PM
to gh342000

i am extreamily curious about what you are saying about falling asleep while using the drugs.

part of my problem is staying awake i can sleep 12 hours a day

you are saying adderall and desoxyn make you fall asleep but dexedrine does not
You misunderstood what I said. When I take stimulants, they mellow me out and the more I take the more introverted I become. Of course I am sure there is a point where they would wind me up which is not what I am looking for. Without the stimulants I am almost unbearable to be around because I am so wound up.

Some stimulants make me lethargic and/or sleepy, specifically Adderall. Of the stimulants that I have taken, I have never had any problems going to sleep, in fact, I sleep better when I am on the meds. I actually can sleep in the middle of day while on Methylphenidate. I have never tried Desoxyn and haven't used Dexedrine for 30 years so I don't remember.

My point was if I were a pilot, I would have to take huge amounts of stimulants to stay awake, at the small doses (like the ones given to the pilots) they would do nothing at keeping me awake. If the pilot had ADD, the stimulant may not work real well at the desired effect that the Air Force wants which is an awake alert pilot.

gh342000
03-18-07, 04:26 PM
to gh342000 ok read it again now it seems you are saying that none of the drugs keep you awake?

are you saying onply normal people would be kept awake?

i am interested in add drugs because they seem to improve mental alterness what words should i use to describe this and they help you keep awake.

you can say ask your doctor but i am on county and they refuse to talk about it they really are all crazy they think if you use it you will DIE they really beliveev this thats why i happy to contact you people who seem to be living threw it all productivly

except for the jet figther pilots.
Yep, I am saying that stimulants in the doses that I take for my ADD, they don't keep me awake. I am sure if I take a big enough dose, it would interfere with my sleep, but so far, I take 36 to 54mgs of Methylphenidate a day and never have problems falling asleep.

gh342000
03-18-07, 04:45 PM
you can say ask your doctor but i am on county and they refuse to talk about it they really are all crazy they think if you use it you will DIE they really beliveev this thats why i happy to contact you people who seem to be living threw it all productivly

except for the jet figther pilots.
You are not going to die taking stimulants unless you have a heart defect or something(?). There are things that stimulants do to your body that are not good. For instance, they increase blood pressure. For some people this is bad. This good of the meds has to be weighed against the bad effects of the meds.

Stimulants have been around since the turn of last century and have very useful applications, Narcolepsy, ADD, weight loss, etc. So, yes, there are many people where the stimulant meds are a quality of life issue.

Also, keep in mind that the jet fighter pilots, they use them to stay alert so they don't end up crashing their $50 million+ jet because they fall asleep or fatigue and being unalert causes a mistake in their mission that causes huge collateral effects. The pilots are not allowed to use them willy nilly only specifically on a mission under approved circumstances. Using them or abusing them is a quick way to get your wings taken away.

If you think you have ADD, go to a PDOC and get an evaluation. I was on stimulant meds when I was a kid, off the meds until the age of 40 years old. At that time went to the doctor and went back on the meds. My quality of life is far better with the meds than without.

Andrew
03-18-07, 05:48 PM
This thread has skidded far from its intended purpose - the discussion about why there was no subforum for Desoxyn.

The suggestions have been noted by administration. Thanks to all that participated in this thread.

Andrew
03-20-07, 08:43 PM
Please note that a Desoxyn section has been opened: http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=317

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this suggestion thread!