PBS frontline aired this video located here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/view/
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/view/)

It leaves you wondering what are the long term effects of amphetamine use. Though Ritalin, Adderall if taken as prescribe has a different effect as using speed, it still leaves you to wonder about the long term use. Anyone has any thoughts on this video?

These people abuse drugs. They take quantities that are much higher than one would for theraputic treatment for ADHD. It's all about amounts.

I'm sure that there are some long term effects, as there are with anything. It is an interesting question, though.

Meth is not medicine. People do not cook it in their homes and die from their burns. Or nearly kill their children. My DH is a chemist, there is a big difference between methylphenidate and methamphetamine.

Just like cocaine and sugar-similar molecularly but that is where it ends.
http://www.chem.ucalgary.ca/courses/351/Carey/Ch22/ch22-0.html
http://www.nida.nih.gov/PDF/RRMetham.pdf
There is a difference between amphetamines and methamphetamine noted on the 1st page.

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/pccpdf/v05s05/v64s1103.pdf

This article talks about reduced risk of abuse with Methylphenidate compared to other drugs.

These are peer-reviewed professional journal articles which makes them excellent resources for understanding ADD and communicating w/ your doc.

Pharmaceutical-grade methamphetamine is prescribed for ADHD. It is not as popular, but I suppose that if used as prescribed, there should not be addiction problems, etc.

"Meth is not medicine."

"there is a big difference between methylphenidate and methamphetamine."

Not medicine? Interesting thing to say for someone who puts faith in peer reviewed material. Actually, meth is arguably the best medicine for treating this dissorder for many people. It is prescribed under the brand name Desoxyn, and it has been pharmaceutically available for over 70 years or more. I am currently taking Desoxyn, and I find it to be superior to everything else except immediate release Dexedrine.

You're right, there is a big difference between methylphenidate and methamphetamine. Methylphenidate is without a doubt the least therapeutic stimulant drug used to treat this dissorder, and had the greatest negative side effects for me, and everyone I have known who have had it prescribed for this dissorder. Methamphetamine is arguably the most therapeutic with almost no negative side effects for me. This is my experience, and I base this on having taken these drugs since 1992. Since 1992 I have taken every prescription drug available to treat this dissorder.

Have you ever tried Desoxyn yourself? I suspect not. Prior to trying it I too was afraid that it must be like the street version of methamphetamine, thereby making it very dangerous. I was way off. Desoxyn is nothing like street meth, except in chemical name alone.

I first became aware of Desoxyn after reading about it at remedyfind.com and then I asked my Dr. about it. My Dr. (like most doctors) had never heard of it. My Dr. was very surprised to find out that it even existed, and he is a psychiatrist. At first this really surprised me, but over the years since then I have learned that this is the case with most Dr's. The more I learned about the ignorance of Dr's concerning this very therapuetic drug for treating this dissorder, the more I developed an interest in going back to school and getting into medicine. There were other factors involved with me wanting to go back to school and then onto medical school, but that was the first factor.

As HighFunctioning said it is about amounts. I would add it is also about route of administration, as well as, amount. If you abuse tylenol, the liver damage can be irreversable leading to death. There are many useful meds that have the potential for abuse. This does not make the meds any less useful.

Amphetamine and methamphetamine are different drugs that do somewhat different things, and there are vast differences in taking a pure substance under a physician than abusing something tainted with toxic chemcials in massive amounts.

These people abuse drugs. They take quantities that are much higher than one would for theraputic treatment for ADHD. It's all about amounts.

I'm sure that there are some long term effects, as there are with anything. It is an interesting question, though.
LOL....First thing that came to my mind also.


Methamphetamine ABUSE. Thats the key word. Massive amounts that often also contain harmful impurities, and is snorted, smoked, or ingested.

Consuming a few glasses of water per day is essential for your health (although you consume a significant amount of water from food, as well), but if you were to consume a gallon or two at once, you would die from hyponaetremia.

Similarly, you must consume iron to survive, because it is required to form the hemoglobin that allow your red blood cells to transport oxygen. If you consume large amounts of iron, you will die.

Consuming a few tablets of tylenol every few hours to deal with a fever or aches and pains can be very helpful. Consuming several grams at once will cause fatal liver failure (treatment for which must be given within 12 hours, despite the fact that symptoms may not manifest for up to 16 hours).

The dose makes the poison.

Reminds me of a true lab story I heard from a physicist a while back: A valve on a liquid nitrogen tank burst, filling the room with nitrogen. This tripped sensors, and an alarm went off, the fire department was called, and the building was evacuated. This was because a room full of nitrogen would be dangerous if one were to unknowingly walk in. As the room contains only nitrogen and no oxygen, you would suffocate to death without even known what was happening. However, the scientists who worked elsewhere in the building were upset at having to waste the better part of the day outside, and felt that the fire department was taking too long. A joke went around that the fire department wouldn't let them back into the building because they'd gone through with a portable nitrogen-sensing device and were shocked to find nitrogen levels at 70% in each room (ok, bad science humor).

An atmosphere of 70% nitrogen is perfectly safe, a room full of only nitrogen is deadly. Similarly, an atmosphere of ~20% oxygen is very good for us. An atmosphere of 100% oxygen would be a fireball waiting to happen the instant anything sparked it.

Oh, and oxygen is one of the most caustic, corrosive, explosive, flammable, destructive element out there. Many organisms on the planet, who appear to be descended from the most ancient lineages, cannot handle oxygen. For them, it is a poison that literally burns them.

@lars:

Methylphenidate is without a doubt the least therapeutic stimulant drug used to treat this dissorder, and had the greatest negative side effects for me, and everyone I have known who have had it prescribed for this dissorder. Methamphetamine is arguably the most therapeutic with almost no negative side effects for me.What exactly do you mean by stating: Methylphenidate is without a doubt the least therapeutic stimulant drug used to treat this dissorder, and had the greatest negative side effects ?

Why least therapeutic?
And why greatest negative side effects? Can you give examples?

@lars:

What exactly do you mean by stating: Methylphenidate is without a doubt the least therapeutic stimulant drug used to treat this dissorder, and had the greatest negative side effects ?

Why least therapeutic?
And why greatest negative side effects? Can you give examples?I'm with you Katy! Can you offer us some evidence, as in studies?

This is my experience, and I base this on having taken these drugs since 1992. Since 1992 I have taken every prescription drug available to treat this dissorder. Ok then, this is YOUR EXPERIENCE and I will not take that away from you. :) However:

had the greatest negative side effects for me, and everyone I have known who have had it prescribed for this dissorder.OK I accept that for you this is truth, but addressing the underlined, you now know me :) so kindly add me to the list of "virtually no side effects from methylphenidate" patients, will you please?

Crazy

Lars, my comments were not about Mallinkrodt's produts.

Not medicine? Interesting thing to say for someone who puts faith in peer reviewed material.
From the video, I am equating meth with home cooked street drugs. there is no comparison. period. Mallinkrodt's pharaceutical grade methamphetamine is a completely different kettle of fish.

I find it interesting that you believe I put faith in peer reviewed studies rather than using my own ability to think critically. If you read my posts you will find that I have never been one to run into a wall from blind faith.

Have you ever tried Desoxyn yourself? I suspect not.
Whoa, This was not a personal attack on you. Just a discussion of the video.


I really love an open, respectful discussion.

RADD

@lars:

What exactly do you mean by stating: Methylphenidate is without a doubt the least therapeutic stimulant drug used to treat this dissorder, and had the greatest negative side effects ?

Why least therapeutic?
And why greatest negative side effects? Can you give examples?
It was the only prescription stimulant that caused any problems with my heart, or blood pressure. As I originally stated, it had the greatest negative side effcts for me.

I'm with you Katy! Can you offer us some evidence, as in studies?

[font=Verdana][font=Fixedsys]Ok then, this is YOUR EXPERIENCE and I will not take that away from you. :) However:

[font=Verdana][font=Fixedsys]OK I accept that for you this is truth, but addressing the underlined, you now know me :) so kindly add me to the list of "virtually no side effects from methylphenidate" patients, will you please?

Crazy
To answer the first part of your question, there are two research articles from the prestigious St. Louis Medical School in St. Louis, Missouri: (1)Fischer, VW et al. (http://www.addmtc.com/ref1.html)Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) 1977; 238:1497 and (2) Henderson, TA et al. (http://www.addmtc.com/ref2.html)The American Journal of Cardiovascular Pathology 1994; 5(1):68.


To answer the last part of your response, I do not know you just because we are both members here at this site. I have only been a member here for a few weeks. I was referring to people I have known personally since 1992 who have this dissorder. Maybe I should have been clearer about who I was talking about when I said people I know, but I assumed that was implied since I really do not know anyone here personally. I am very glad to hear that you have experienced virtually no negative side effects from methylphenidate.

Whoa, This was not a personal attack on you. Just a discussion of the video.
I did not take anything you said as a personal attack. I asked the question about Desoxyn based on your statement that "meth is not medicine." You have since clarified the issue and shown that you obviously see that illegal meth, and prescription meth are not the same thing. Sorry that you assumed that I took what you said as an attack.

I love an open and respectful discussion too, and I assumed that was what we were having all along.

From watching the video (I watched all 4 parts), I got the impression that the meth was NOT so dangerous because of any impurities (that doesn't mean that there aren't impurities) because they were the whole time talking about how it's made from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine. So I strongly get the impression that the drug itself is dangerous- with an without impurities.

I know some, especially Lars, will contradict me.. But what you're taking is also made from ephedrine, isn't it?
Right, the dose makes the poison. But I'm not sure if you can justify any drug respectively the danger of any drug by the same old examples (oxygen and so on- PLEASE don't get offended, Hyperion!) I just don't think meth is ever healthy, even in a small dose. Yeah, you function better and so on but healthy for your body? I don't know about that!
I take methylphenidate because it makes me function better and makes my life easier in different ways, but I would never tell myself: "It's healthy in small dose, only in you take huge dose it's unhealthy." In my opinion (and from the studies I've read so far), a stimulant is never healthy and I'm not lying to myself, just because it makes me more comfortable taking it. You just have to decide if the benefits are worth it, and everyone has to decide it for himself.
Anyways, my point is :faint: : I personally would never try meth as ADD treatment, because I believe it's worse for the body than methylphenidate, but of course that's only my personal opinion or the way I interpret the studies on meth compared to the studies on methylphenidate.

Didn't mean to p**** you off, Lars ;) Please don't get offended.
Freedom of opinion.

PS: The "some is good for you, much is bad"- equation is not transferable on anything. 40 cigarettes a day is bad but 4 cigarettes a day are good for your body? "The dose makes the poison" examples are always the same, because there are limited.

Actually Katy there is no reason at all to fear Hyperion :) he knows how to make a statement to ADDers without getting cranky. I kinda wish he would pop in here and also Barb, I wanna know if they have seen the studies presented.

I am no scientist nor am I researcher, I just play a sympathetic person with ADD on the internet ;).

To answer the last part of your response, I do not know you just because we are both members here at this site. I have only been a member here for a few weeks. I was referring to people I have known personally since 1992 who have this dissorder. Maybe I should have been clearer about who I was talking about when I said people I know, but I assumed that was implied since I really do not know anyone here personally. I am very glad to hear that you have experienced virtually no negative side effects from methylphenidate.See, now there ya go! Misinterpretation of implications is fairly common among people who have ADD. Correct, you do not "know" me in one sense and on the other foot, in another sense you do know OF me. And I quite naturally "assumed" when RADD said "meth is not medicine" she meant street meth...because I do not know anyone personally or over the internet who calls meds the same name as a street drug.

And I did slip up when I placed Adderal in the methamphetamine class. You were correct. What I meant to say was its in the amphetamine class...so my brain knew the right thing but expressed it improperly and stood corrected. Hyperion and Barb give me room to explain myself too.

It happens a lot here, par for the forum course.

Crazy

I am personally glad you react well to

@lars:

I read your replies after my last post. Thanks for the studies about methylphenidate. Aren't there any studies on meth that refer to the same problem? I'll see if I can find the studies on meth which I read awhile ago, only if you're interested..

Anyways, it's good that it has worked out for you since so many years.

Another question that REALLY interests me: Why do meth abusers age so fast and get this horrible face/skin?? I never saw this at any other drug abusers (heroine junkies, crack, etc.). What exactly causes this horrible "look"/change?

I am not offended or angry at all Kathy. I respect your opinion. I am happy that you have found a med that works, and I would stick with it as long as it continues to work. I took methylphenidate myself for the first 5 years or so after I was diagnosed, and I loved it initially. If not for the side effects I experienced I likely would have never gotten off of the stuff. None of us are the same, and each one of us will respond differently to drug "A" or drug "B." I am just grateful that there are alternative drugs for those of us who need an alternative drug. I wish I could say that drug "A" or drug "B" cured me of my dissorder, but I have yet to find a cure per se. What I have found is that drug "A" is more therapeutic than drug "B" for me, and I am grateful to have had the opportunity to find that out.

@lars:

I read your replies after my last post. Thanks for the studies about methylphenidate. Aren't there any studies on meth that refer to the same problem? I'll see if I can find the studies on meth which I read awhile ago, only if you're interested..

Anyways, it's good that it has worked out for you since so many years.

Another question that REALLY interests me: Why do meth abusers age so fast and get this horrible face/skin?? I never saw this at any other drug abusers (heroine junkies, crack, etc.). What exactly causes this horrible "look"/change?Yes, I would be interested in learning more if you can find anything.

That is a good question concerning meth addicts. I am not sure really, but I suspect that it may be due to the amount of impurities that they are ingesting, and maybe lack of proper nutrition? The chemicals used to manufacture meth are very nasty, especially when one compares the constituents of meth to the constituents of heroin and crack for example. I am not trying to imply that heroin or crack are healthy, but compared to the constituents of street meth, they almost look like healthfood. :rolleyes: Perhaps someone who knows why this happens to meth addicts may chime in and answer your question. I would be interested in knowing too.

If one's main focus in life is the next fix, nutrition, hydration and sleep are not a priority.

@lars:
I am not trying to imply that heroin or crack are healthy, but compared to the constituents of street meth, they almost look like healthfood.
Why do think are heroin and crack "healthier"? I'm seriously! curious :)
When I was young I always thought heroine is the worst drug, then I believed it's crack and now it seem meth is even worse ?
But I think crack addicts usually die faster than meth addicts. I got this impression because in the videos a lot of addicts say they started when they were really young kids (because their parents made them addicted-horrible!!) I don't think a crack kid would survive that long. :(
God, I better stop now :eek:

Nah its a valid point there Katy. The reason crakheads manage to live as long as they do probably has something to do with the myth that crack is cheap. For an addict, its not cheap at all. The high is so short there is never enough! Eventually the crack runs out and they crash, then they do have spend some time gathering money for the next party, during which time they realise that they are hungry and tired and they eat and sleep.

JM2C though.

Crazy

@lars:

Why do think are heroin and crack "healthier"? I'm seriously! curious :)

I do not think heroin or crack is healthier. What I said was that "they almost looked like healthfood" compared to what the constituents of street meth are. Heroin and crack are not made from caustic chemicals like street meth is.

I do not think heroin or crack is healthier. What I said was that "they almost looked like healthfood" compared to what the constituents of street meth are. Heroin and crack are not made from caustic chemicals like street meth is.I would have to agree with that. Analogy is something I can definitely relate to :).

Crazy

Sorry for going on.. but I got a couple more questions..:eyebrow:

(Like meth) Crack isn't pure (cocaine) most of the times either, right?

So, could you say "cooked/heated" ephedrine is more dangerous than coca per se? You know what I mean..

I really wish we had a chemistry prof/dr./student here who could explain the exact way meth, crack/cocaine and heroine are made (of)..
For some reason it really interests me.. :)

@lars:
Is the "meth" you're taking as medicine also made of "cooked ephedrine" ?

Sorry for sounding/expressing myself in such an unprofessional way, but I don't want to try to hard to sound smart ;)
Plus I don't want to sound like a smart *** or nerd :)

We might have one here Katy, or at least someone capable of finding out :) cannot wait to see it!

Crazy

@Crazy:

Where is this guy ;) ? Do you know his name and could you please tell him to answer my questions :) I don't wanna die stupid!

Katy, you are sooo good with those laser pointers. :D Just keep them off my chest when you are working with SWAT.

My DH is a Chemist, I will ask him what he might know. You could email Mallikrodt for some info too. I am sure they would send you some info. After, the facts are the facts, and they know their chemicals. And CO is carbon monoxide which is totally different from CO2, carbon dioxide.

Warning: I am on my :soapbox:
Pure, commercially produced under strict manufacturing standards, amphetamine is a world of difference from the meth produced with stolen anhydrous ammonia, stock-piled or illegally obtained sudafed, recipes from other meth heads off the internet, and cooked by often addicted, often greedy people with no concern for their own, their family's, or their neighborhood's safety. Let alone the safety of fire, police, and hazardous site clean-up technicians. :soapbox: Warning ended.
RADD

Good plan RADD! I'll be watching for that ;) Mr NT comes in handy this time huh?

Crazy

Better to die stupid than? We love you and your search for knowledge.

What is NT? splain to me Lucy.

The opposite of neuro-diverse, Ethel...neuro-typical :).

@lars:
Is the "meth" you're taking as medicine also made of "cooked ephedrine" ?
I don't know Katy. I do know that Desoxyn does not feel like street meth feels. I know this because I actually smoked some herb about 12 years ago at a party that was laced with street meth. It was a much different effect than Desoxyn. I am no longer an herb smoker, and since I have not mixed my daily dose of Desoxyn with any herb, I am unable to rule out any possible synergistic effects between the two that may explain what I experienced years ago, but from what I remember the street meth was very intense in its effect which was completely seperate from the herb's normal effect.

@RADDmom.....Mallinckrodt does not make Desoxyn. Desoxyn is made by Abbott labs for Ovation pharmaceuticals. There was a generic made by Able labs, but Able labs declared bankruptcy in early 2005 less than a year after they recieved FDA approval in 2004 to make a generic version of Desoxyn.

I don't know Katy. I do know that Desoxyn does not feel like street meth feels. I know this because I actually smoked some herb about 12 years ago at a party that was laced with street meth. It was a much different effect than Desoxyn. I am no longer an herb smoker, and since I have not mixed my daily dose of Desoxyn with any herb, I am unable to rule out any possible synergistic effects between the two that may explain what I experienced years ago, but from what I remember the street meth was very intense in its effect which was completely seperate from the herb's normal effect.Sigh...OK Katy, speaking just for me and bearing in mind I have never taken Desoxyn, I will attempt to address this. I was a serious weed smoker for ages, going back a lot more than 12 years ago.

In my experience, marijuana became available in even more poetent forms over the many years, and the more potent the more expensive it would be. Expensive high-potency weed is very trippy in effect and produces a body high that is very rubbery and relaxing.

Street meth, I have done that too. Smoking it is a very uncertain method by which to ingest it, simply due the unknown amount of cutter. Some cutters are meant to mimic the effects of meth, and when smoked will not melt and the resulting high is negligible or nonexistent.

@RADDmom.....Mallinckrodt does not make Desoxyn. Desoxyn is made by Abbott labs for Ovation pharmaceuticals. There was a generic made by Able labs, but Able labs declared bankruptcy in early 2005 less than a year after they recieved FDA approval in 2004 to make a generic version of Desoxyn.I don't personally care if she gets her info from the manufacturer or her husband. In some place the chemicals are known and verified. Too bad DH is on the road, he was a chemist for Roche Pharmacueticals once, and I bet he could be helpful here too.

Crazy (clearing things up=muddying the waters at first glance)

Links to info on amphetamine related compounds

All these products are related but chemically different. Katy, don't freak out-all prescription drug sheets about any type of drug can freak anyone out. Your doctor is the best person to discuss the available treatment options for your individual needs. The nice thing in America is, if you are not comfortable with your doc, choose another. Hopefully one who listens to you, is respectful, answers your question fully, and is well-versed in treating ADD/ADHD.

desoxyn info it is methamphetamine 100%-just cooked in a highly-controlled Federal government regulated, manufacturing environment.

http://www.ovationpharma.com/images.../desoxyn_pi.pdf (http://www.ovationpharma.com/images/products/pdf/desoxyn_pi.pdf)

http://www.ovationpharma.com/phys_cns_deso.htm (http://www.ovationpharma.com/phys_cns_deso.htm)

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/methamphetamine.htm (http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/methamphetamine.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn) good read on desoxyn.

Adderallxr info several amphetamine related compounds here.
http://www.adderallxr.com/assets/pd...information.pdf (http://www.adderallxr.com/assets/pdf/prescribing_information.pdf)

Dexedrine-dextroamphetamine
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_dexedrine.pdf (http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_dexedrine.pdf)

Katy, there are other similar compounds, for space and time, I just put these three in. You can google any drug you want to learn about and get tons of info. Just stay with reliable sites. At least in your esteemed estimation.

RADD, the facts ma'am, nothing but the facts.

I don't personally care if she gets her info from the manufacturer or her husband. In some place the chemicals are known and verified. Too bad DH is on the road, he was a chemist for Roche Pharmacueticals once, and I bet he could be helpful here too.


Crazy (clearing things up=muddying the waters at first glance)
I am about to aquire my second bachelors degree, and will be entering medical school next year. Granted I am not a chemist working for a pharmaceutical company, but I am also not a child speaking from little experience or knowledge on this subject. I am 36 years old, and have been researching these drugs since 1992. I'm sorry if you feel like I am blowing smoke up anyone's dress around here. I feel it is unfortunate that you assume I do not know what I am talking about concerning this suject.

I do not know who DH is, but I agree that it is too bad that they are not here, as I am sure if they were a chemist for Roche that they would indeed confirm that what I have said concerning the manufacture of Desoxyn to in fact be the truth. It's not really important to me if you believe me or not, albeit unfortunate, but I do think it is important for anyone to not disregard the truth when it is right in front of them.

I am about to aquire my second bachelors degree, and will be entering medical school next year. Granted I am not a chemist working for a pharmaceutical company, OK bravo for you. I am always impressed by people with ADD who have degrees :) since I am lacking one myself.

but I am also not a child speaking from little experience or knowledge on this subject. I am 36 years old, and have been researching these drugs since 1992. I don't recall ever labeling you a child. I happen to be 40 by the way, so also, not a child, chronologically speaking.

I'm sorry if you feel like I am blowing smoke up anyone's dress around here. I feel it is unfortunate that you assume I do not know what I am talking about concerning this suject. I'm not saying that you are, where have I said that? I don't assume anything, especially about what I read online. I have asked elsewhere about the studies you posted :) I am hoping the person gets back to me soon.

I I do not know who DH is, but I agree that it is too bad that they are not here, as I am sure if they were a chemist for Roche that they would indeed confirm that what I have said concerning the manufacture of Desoxyn to in fact be the truth.DH means darling husband, and I happen to know mine pretty well. :) that's my job these days. And he was chemist for Roche...do they even make Desoxyn? Last he told me they were making diet pills at his plant.

It's not really important to me if you believe me or not, albeit unfortunate, but I do think it is important for anyone to not disregard the truth when it is right in front of them.Sigh...that's what so many people here in the South keep telling me about not going to their church. See my point?

Its not personal, or aimed at you. Its about how I make up my own mind.

Crazy

OK bravo for you. I am always impressed by people with ADD who have degrees :) since I am lacking one myself.

I don't recall ever labeling you a child. I happen to be 40 by the way, so also, not a child, chronologically speaking.

I'm not saying that you are, where have I said that? I don't assume anything, especially about what I read online. I have asked elsewhere about the studies you posted :) I am hoping the person gets back to me soon.

DH means darling husband, and I happen to know mine pretty well. :) that's my job these days. And he was chemist for Roche...do they even make Desoxyn? Last he told me they were making diet pills at his plant.

Sigh...that's what so many people here in the South keep telling me about not going to their church. See my point?

Its not personal, or aimed at you. Its about how I make up my own mind.

Crazy
Sorry to post like I did. I have been having a pitty party today as I broke up with my fiance (whom I dated for over 4 years) earlier tonight after confirming that she has been cheating on me for the last 2 months (that I know of). I am sorry to bring my pitty here, and to blame you for accusing me of being a child. Certainlly uncalled for on my part. I'm sorry.

Sorry to post like I did. I have been having a pitty party today as I broke up with my fiance (whom I dated for over 4 years) earlier tonight after confirming that she has been cheating on me for the last 2 months (that I know of). I am sorry to bring my pitty here, and to blame you for accusing me of being a child. Certainlly uncalled for on my part. I'm sorry.Its OK Lars :) we all do it sometimes. Par for the forum course after all.

No sweat, I will forget about it soon enough anyway LOL.

Crazy

Hey Lars,
Sorry about your break up.

Hey Lars,
Sorry about your break up.
Thank you, I appreciate that. However, sometimes things work out for the best even when they do not work out the way that we want them to. Unfortunately this is one of those things that is working itself out in my life. Time will be the greatest healer for me I believe, and I wish her the best in all things. She gave up a good thing in me, IMO. She is sorry for what she did, and I have forgiven her at this time. I only hope she learns as much from this experience as I have. I hope and pray that peace will always be with her. She deserves much happiness in her life, but she does not deserve me.

@RADDmom
Katy, you are sooo good with those laser pointers. :D Just keep them off my chest when you are working with SWAT. We love you and your search for knowledge.

Wow, you made my day ;) !! Thank you!!! I love you, too :)

And thank you for all that great info, I've to look it up later today!


@lars:
Keep your head up!

Another question that REALLY interests me: Why do meth abusers age so fast and get this horrible face/skin?? I never saw this in any other drug abusers (heroine junkies, crack, etc.). What exactly causes this horrible "look"/change?Hi Katy! :)

I've just started reading this thread, so I'm still playing catch up!

However, below are 2 links I located to articles about "Meth and Meth Abuse" that may help answer some of the questions you raised!

http://www.rnceus.com/meth/metheffects2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine


Have a great day! :)

Thank you! I'll look up all that info, I'm very interested!
I just wish I'd have some more time :(

Have a great day, too :) !

http://www.rnceus.com/meth/images/metheffects.jpg

.
Holy Cow!

.
That would be a good picture to put on one of those "Just Say No!" T-shirts!

.
Yikes! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Nothing like a picture to get the message across.

It is worse in person. My BIL use to be a meth adict. We could tell when he was using, as he would get scary looking each time. He went through the state sponsored vacations (prison) several times and has been clean for quite a while this time.

http://www.rnceus.com/meth/images/metheffects.jpg
.
Holy Cow!
.
That would be a good picture to put on one of those "Just Say No!" T-shirts!
.
Yikes! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Heh...Super Sniffer does not need a picture. The stench of a sweaty meth-head is something unique and impossible to ignore, for me anyway.


Crazy (meth-head means addicted to street forms, must remember my disclaimers!)

He went through the state sponsored vacations (prison) several times and has been clean for quite a while this time.Congratulations Vickie! :)

I sure bet that's a relief! :)

Heh...Super Sniffer does not need a picture. The stench of a sweaty meth-head is something unique and impossible to ignore, for me anyway.Unique smell? Really? Huh..... I didn't know that!

How would you best describe the smell?

Unique smell? Really? Huh..... I didn't know that!

How would you best describe the smell?Chemical, with old sweat and fear, combined with a touch of rotting flesh?

The Kid is better at that than I am but I keep her away from meth-heads.

Crazy

Chemical, with old sweat and fear, combined with a touch of rotting flesh?

The Kid is better at that than I am but I keep her away from meth-heads.

Crazy
That's interesting! It comes out of their pores I guess!

People that get into a car accidents (Or any Accident) and bleed after they have been drinking always have a sweet sickening smell to them!

Something about the alcohol in their blood makes them and their blood smell funky!