Hello to everyone:) I found this site online tonight and decided to write, I have a question that I am hoping anyone can help me out with.

I have a four year old daughter. She has some strange movements that can be associated with autism. When she gets excited, she will wiggle her fingers. She has seen an autism specialist and autism was ruled out for her. I have to agree for the most part, she just does not fit the "mold." She is really outgoing, social and she is not a rigid person at all.

My little girl's father (he has never been apart of her life) may have had ADHD. He was never diagnosed but many people in his family have been.

She is very hyper, it seems that everyone that meets her makes a comment about her hyper-activity. She also just had a preschool evaluation and it was noted she was easily distracted. As an infant, she never napped unless I put her in a car. She has always been a "tornado" when it comes to playing. She loves to bring out her toys but after just a few minutes its on the ground and she is looking at something new. She will ask for a movie but once its on, she already moved on to something else. She LOVES to jump on furniture and most of her day is spent talking just for the sake of talking. Aside from all this, she is such a happy kid. She is always smiling, always making us laugh and always finding a way to have fun. That is why I am rarely worried about her behavior.

Anyway, I am very curious to know if the hand movements are ever seen in kids with ADHD? If I can get any information, I would really appreciate it. I am now beginning to "worry" that there may be something "wrong" with her.

Thank you to all that can respond to me.

The hand movements could be a motor tic. It could be just a habit, and she could just be a little fidgety due to her hyperness.

My instincts are telling me that if this child is happy, healthy, and is doing well in school, socially, etc, that it might be ab bad thing to hang a diagnosis on her.


If there are problems, you might do well to have her evaluated by a professional.

ME :D



Hello to everyone:) I found this site online tonight and decided to write, I have a question that I am hoping anyone can help me out with.

I have a four year old daughter. She has some strange movements that can be associated with autism. When she gets excited, she will wiggle her fingers. She has seen an autism specialist and autism was ruled out for her. I have to agree for the most part, she just does not fit the "mold." She is really outgoing, social and she is not a rigid person at all.

My little girl's father (he has never been apart of her life) may have had ADHD. He was never diagnosed but many people in his family have been.

She is very hyper, it seems that everyone that meets her makes a comment about her hyper-activity. She also just had a preschool evaluation and it was noted she was easily distracted. As an infant, she never napped unless I put her in a car. She has always been a "tornado" when it comes to playing. She loves to bring out her toys but after just a few minutes its on the ground and she is looking at something new. She will ask for a movie but once its on, she already moved on to something else. She LOVES to jump on furniture and most of her day is spent talking just for the sake of talking. Aside from all this, she is such a happy kid. She is always smiling, always making us laugh and always finding a way to have fun. That is why I am rarely worried about her behavior.

Anyway, I am very curious to know if the hand movements are ever seen in kids with ADHD? If I can get any information, I would really appreciate it. I am now beginning to "worry" that there may be something "wrong" with her.

Thank you to all that can respond to me.

There are a few different things, as the previous poster said, could be a motor tic.
The other thing is, as you may already know, that some forms of high functioning autism can really mimic AD/HD. Some things like Aspergers may not be totally evident until they are around the age of 7, and the social aspect becomes more evident. Before 7, all kids can be socially quirky. So those that are very high functioning that are just "quirky", can go unnoticed until they are bit older, when it becomes more obvious that they aren't developing socially like their peers.
I have a 9yr old son who was initially diagnosed with AD/HD, mild anxiety & depression, possible mood disorder. AD/HD treatment failed miserably. He was then sent for a Bipolar evaluation, which was ruled out. ODD was added in. I got tired of it all, made a huge list of every single one of his symptoms and took it to a more qualified doctor. He is now being tested for Aspergers. His initial screening rated as having a high probability, but we have to finish the other tests up.
My son is also social, or at least tries to be. He likes play with kids, will try to be friends, but he doesn't know how to play with kids. He can play tag, or sports, but if they try to do anything beyond that, he is lost. He will either walk away, or try to wrestle (which never ends well). Kids think he is "weird".
He also doesn't play with toys because he lacks the imagination to know wha to do with them. He can play with things that have a specific purpose, or that he can mimic from life experience, like cars, trucks, sports, cards.


Anyway, my son also does a weird posturing thing with his hands, mostly when he is trying to walk fast, or is talking to someone. It's hard to explain but it's almost like he tries to bring his thumb and middle finger together.
When he runs he also either runs with his arms out (like a bird), or he pulls one of his hands up to his chest, elbow bent, and runs like that. He also does a little toe walking, not right up on his tip toes, but his heals don't touch the ground.

I do have a point:p . If you are sure the doctor that ruled out the Autism is well versed in the higher functioning forms of Autism, then I would just keep it in the back of your mind. Be sure to write down the things you notice now, in case you need the information down the road (you forget over the years). If you are not satisfied with the Autism being ruled out, then you could get another opinion.

Another thing is sensory issues. Sometimes children will do movements like that when seeking stimulation, or being over stimulated. The jumping on the couch can be a sensory thing as well. If she shows any other signs of sensory issues, clothing bugging her, over responsive or under responsive to touch, sound, smells, etc, then you may want to have her evaluated by an occupational therapist.

Does she have any developmental or language delays, or has she ever had them? Any obsessions, or limited range of interests?

I don't think the hand stuff is related to AD/HD, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have AD/HD.

Good luck :)

Welcome to the forums, KDNelson!:)

Tourettes and motor tics are no infrequent companions of ADHD. A lot of kids also outgrow their tics. I have several small tics that don't cause me any trouble, but I have a brother with full blown Tourettes syndrome. It is possible that they share some common gene pathways according to what I've read and observed in my own family. I wouldn't worry to much if there don't seem to be other problems and if it doens't seem to be getting worse. ADHD is all about dysregulation and that can show up a lot of different ways.

A good book that discusses the milder forms of ADHD, anxiety disorders (such as OCD, Tourettes, etc), autism and so forth is John Ratey's Shadow Syndromes. It discusses some of the possible genetic connections and also natural as well as medical treatment.

Take care,
Scattered

Welcome Kdnelson :) my dad is undiagnosed formally but admits to being ADHD (he says its not an issue for him) and he has a few tics like that. He shrugs, and he rubs his fingers together but he does that all the time without any sign of excitement.

The kid and I do some mild stimming like you mentioned, and for us its all about trying to create external focus or else blocking some of our sensory integration issues (different stims apply for each situation for us as well).

Hubby admits he used to flap his hands as a child when he got excited and he does not have ADHD nor does he have any Autism Spectrum disorder (he is another type of neurological challenge entirely).

That being said, I don't know if I am helping or muddying the issue by contributing. I can say that this is an issue that apparently occurs for a lot of people, regardless what DX they fall under.

Crazy

Wow, thank you everyone for your responses. I logged on today hoping to see atleast one:)

Anyway, as it stands now, I will just let her be a kid and *try* to put my worries to rest. If it is autism, I know she is very high functioning. It will just be a waiting game at this point, I just hate the wait.

If it is ADHD or something, or anything for that matter, it will come to surface when the time is right.

I did have a question for crazy feet...you mentioned that your husband was a flapper. Do you have any idea when this stopped in his life? I get mixed information about stims. I hear they go away with age but I also hear that they are with a person forever. I just feel so bad for my daughter because her movement looks odd, I would hate to know that something like that would single her out for teasing in school.

Again, thanks for all the responses, it really helps:)

I did have a question for crazy feet...you mentioned that your husband was a flapper. Do you have any idea when this stopped in his life? I get mixed information about stims. I hear they go away with age but I also hear that they are with a person forever. I just feel so bad for my daughter because her movement looks odd, I would hate to know that something like that would single her out for teasing in school.

Again, thanks for all the responses, it really helps:)
Hmmmmm not sure...he's on a run right now, he drives truck. I know its a family "legend" but not a life-time occurance. I can venture a guess...probably sometime in elementary school. Maybe what Scatt said?

He has a pretty good attitude about "not caring" what others think of him as an adult, I gotta say!

Crazy

A real high percentage of kids have transient tics during childhood. Even the majority of Tourettes symptoms ease up for most folks in adulthood, but definately not all. I have a brother who still has the full syndrome.

I don't know how much there is to it but there have been some folks who claim that changing diet has helped when these traits are related to autism -- at least if it is implemented soon enough. Apparently a number of autism/aspie kids have a reaction to milk and also frequently gluten. Fighting for Tony by Mary Callahan and Autism and Pervasive Developmental Disorder by Karyn Seroussi (both nurses and mothers of kids diagnosed with autism who recovered) discusses how symptoms such as flapping, spinning and other autistic traits dropped off. This may not be what's going on with your daughter at all but I thought I'd pass it along in case you're interested. ADHD and motor tics (or Tourettes) seem like likely culprits if her social skills, speech, eye contact, and such are developing appropriately.

Scattered

I am slightly more coherent after my nap (and I do mean slightly, please bear with me). Hubby had a severe head injury at age 2, and his development (like Scatt said once again) was normal. He has other symptomatology as an adult that would tie in with his head injury and not apply to this child. That's why I mentioned him :) the diagnoses mentioned have been pretty much ruled out in his case.

Crazy

My mom was a "hand flapper", I think it was a nervous thing with her. I find myself doing something similar with my hands or my legs when I'm nervous or feeling very fidgetty.

I've heard that jumping on a trampoline is very good for kids who have Auspergers and some cases of AD/HD too. Even just a mini trampoline is a good idea and saves on the furniture, eh?