Education?

Sorry about the mis-title of the thread. If Big or a moderator could change it to "Your Education?" that would be better.

Someday I'll create a poll about People's Jobs, but it would be sooooooo big....

Thanks

I don't know where I fit into this.

Completed high school, completed 1 year of (worse than worthless) Toronto School of Business, then dropped out of college after 1 year.

I added 2 choices for that type of situation.

I've no idea how I would fit in there, I had a relatively easy time up until college (still highly structured in Switzerland) although I was always worse in subjects that relied on remembering dates and names and place names etc. (esp. history & geography but also chemistry as I had a hard time remembering names of elements, reactions etc.). Came top of my class in college (3 1/2 years in the area I was from, we "graduate" with a "Matur" (equiv. of German "Abitur") at age ~ 18 or 19).

Started first year Uni (Pharmacy) could hardly handle any of the subjects apart from physics and maths, dropped out although just barely passed exams. Moved to the UK and did a 2 years GNVQ Advanced course in IT (vocational type course), couldn't afford non-EU citizen fees for University (~£10'000/year).

Wish I could go back and choose again knowing what I do these days *Sigh*

Thank you Tara for adding choices and fixing Title!

J

Isn't it interesting that so far 50% 0f us have completed uni degrees. I wonder how that compares to the rest of the 'normal' population and if we are too hard on ourselves because we are ADD. Maybe we are a group of high achievers.

No multiple answers? For I have two associate degrees: Mechanical Engineering Technicain and Architectural Drafting as well as over 60+ Credits in a 4 year college, I would have been a math, science, computer middle school teacher but ran out of money - a blessing in discise... for I wouldn't have become the cool drafter I am today :D

I marked currently attending graduate school, except that I don't officially begin my first quarter until December 1st.....

I do have a BSEd.

Way Cool Thread...!

Who said "Never let your schooling interfer with your education"?

I think I saw Truman Cappote in an interview say: "Go to school until you know what you want to do, then go out and do it."

Curiously, I just called in "computer Nerdz" as backup to make sure I hadn't missed anything in a knotty situation. Asking about education the "young" guy said:"No. they don't care about degrees or certificates, though you can have both if you want.

They give a test, and if you pass they hire you and if you don't they won't."

Really puts "education" in its "place." Perfromance is The Only Thing.

: } God help those with deviant performance!

According to this poll, everyone voting has been to college. That is quite interesting if it is a representative sample of the Forums members. I'm a little skeptical to assume that all forum members attended college, so I'm wondering if the non-college students are avoiding voting? ? ? More votes will make the poll somewhat more valid, so keep voting.

J :)

I have a B.S....and a couple of graduate classes under my belt....which will probably never transfer anywhere....

I have a B.A in Sociology and an Masters in Telecomunications.
I loved going to college during my Sociology degree, went to San Jose State. I had a great time, I loved being a college student. I lived real close to me school and had a bunch of roomates. We lived in a 2 bedroom house that had the garage and this other room converted into bedrooms, so in all we had 5 guys living there with at various times a person crashing on our couch. We affectionately dubbed the house, "The Slum". I can't say enough how I had such a great time in college back then. I guess, it was sort of a carefree time in life. Just needed to work about 20 hours a week, had very low rent. There were always friends around when you wanted to be social.

My Masters was a whole different experience. It was at National University and I was working full-time, married, and had 2 young children. It was a night program and it was a year long program with a new class every month with no breaks. While I did enjoy the classes, the experience overall was vastly different than my B.A, just not as carefree, more responisbilities, more pressure, less friends. Just a completely different place in life. It was more of a grind to get through the program verses the sheer joy of being a college student at San Jose State!

For those who obtained 60 + credits and have no degree, its something to consider that you might be able to transfer your credits to a jr college and walk away with a sheepskin, an AA degree with little or minimal effort. I did that before I continued with my BA degree, because I wanted to make sure I atleast had that AA degree.

Jon

Originally posted by jimmmaaa
While I did enjoy the classes, the experience overall was vastly different than my B.A, just not as carefree, more responisbilities, more pressure, less friends. Just a completely different place in life. It was more of a grind to get through the program verses the sheer joy of being a college student at San Jose State!

Thanks for sharing this James. I imagine that if I ever went back and completed master's studies (in nutrition), it too would be a total grind....which is why I will probably procrastinate doing it for a long long time.....

I was a bad apple.

I still am.

EkimDam

Madmike: You are NOT a bad apple....I'm glad you're back here....:) :)

Originally posted by Wheel1975
Who said "Never let your schooling interfer with your education"?

I think I saw Truman Cappote in an interview say: "Go to school until you know what you want to do, then go out and do it."


That sounds about right. I have a BA, MBA, JD and I still don’t know what the hell I am doing. I guess I’ll need to go back for a MD, PhD, DDS, etc.

I don't have anything and I know exactly what I am doing. Go figure! ;)

Originally posted by FlakeyGirl
I don't have anything and I know exactly what I am doing. Go figure! ;)


A lot of government jobs have what they call a “substitute of education for experience.” Meaning that if a job requires a certain number years experience you can be hired with no experience if you have a masters degree or higher.

Unfortunately, what I need is a “substitute of education for common sense.”

Wouldn't THAT be nice? How about substituting experience and/or education for deep insight and keen problem solving ability ? How far would we be then? :rolleyes:

I have my HS diploma. I have tried college 4 times now. I did well in 1 course a quarter and that is about it. I have become a supervisor where I work. The other supervisors have college degrees. I struggle to keep up but have done okay. Maybe someday I will go back. (yeah right :D )
Jim

I keep trying to avoid graduate school. I am told I have some talent in counseling, that I have great insight. I also happen to find psychology and all those related subjects, like cultural anthropoloyg and sociology, fascinating. I really do love psychology, even if I have areas to disagree with, there is so much there to be fascinated with. Part of that reason of course, is my own desire to explore my own psyche and understand who and why I am. But never the less, I have a legitimate interest in the topic, both academically and personally. Yet, I am scared to death to go back to graduate school. I know my concentration is so dependent, upon circumstance, and am afraid of failure. I have not failed at school in ages, and have done so well all the times I went back; graduated Cum Distinction in 1998, and got A's in 3 grad school classes when I attended in 2000. But I'm scared to death to start again. I need to do it, because everything seems to be leading me towards a counseling career. The people I have coached have told me that they have seen therapists who did not give them as much as I have given them in terms of insight and inderstanding themselves better. My own therapist says I have a calling. I feel it too. But I'm afraid.

Now I'm looking for people to say "go do it"

This is really bad. I should not need people to say this to me. I should know for myself what I want and what I can do without a cheering section.

I am conflicted. And I feel now in this post I am looking for attention, and I feel bad about it. Damn, what the hell am I afraid of?????? This is truly absorbing my attention, trying to figure out the fear. It could be so complex, as deep as the fact that my brother is a psychologist, a successful one - si that causing me a fear of not being as good as him? Or that my mother is a little bit on the needing services side - ok - alot on that side - and am I attracted to psychology to heal a parent - which I don't think I can do? Or is it because I am so enthralled with my own personal processes and want to validate those processes through the counseling of others - not a good reason I think? Or is it because the psychologist represents the core polar opposite of the mentally ill, the locus of knowledge power and control - in my family the psychologist was the one who decided who was ill and who was not ill - do I seek that power? How much harm could I do to others if my reasons are not pure? Are any psychologists reasons pure? Aren't they all in it to find out who they are, to have some form of intellectual power, to have validation that they are not crazy? How many of them are in it for the pure reason of helping others? Is there such a thing, is there such a pure person on earth? Or are all those things possibly existing at the same time, and can a man provide useful psychological services, ethically and morally, while all factors are in existence at once?

I wrestle with all of this. And I wonder if I wrestle with this because of this, or because I am just plain scared of going to school and finding myself in a situation where I am failing or in a situation where fellow students don't like me, or in a situation where a professor realizes I am ADD! All these things I tell others not to be afraid of, I am afraid of!

Well, enough rambling from the soul that is feeling the pressure to decide.

J

Do you really want to go back? These days, I don't think it is always as important to have a degree as it used to be. Just for some industries/positions.

After the stock market bottomed out, we started having the "College isn't for everybody" talks with our kids. LOL, they were in Kindergarten, 1st and 3rd grades.

Well, I'd rather be magically donned a therapist, and not go back! But that is not an option - lol. I have a business and don't have to go back. But maybe I won't want to be doing my business 5 to 10 years from now. I have other opportunities which don't require so much college. But this seems to be my calling. I wonder if this is my purpose in life. My therapist thinks I need to quit avoiding the education factor, and go get the masters degree at minimum. I told her I am afraid I might not be able to study. She baulks at that and says it simply is not the case, she has watched me for 2 1/2 years, for more than 3 hours a week in psychodrama, and strongly believes I need to get the degree, then do whatever I want with my life.

I talk about setting up special programs for adults with ADD, she is 100% behind these ideas, but again comes back to my age, I'm not spring chicken, not 21 anymore, and that I need the masters, the credentials, to embark on all these paths I want to follow.

Isn't there some way to do it without more school!!! This means I have ot face one of my biggest fears!!!! I may have done well in college rescently, but I had my set back earlier, had to quit college twice before getting that BA. And there was a time when I was a failing HS student. Those years of being a failing high school student had an impact on my psyche as far as school goes.

As I write I am beginning to realize those years were only from 10th grade to 12th grade, and the second part of my first year in college, and those years are becoming a smaller and smaller part of my academic history. They were fraught with a myriad of problem circumstances.

Maybe I need to focus on the latter years, and the earlier years, the success years, and not keep going back to the failures. I am a great student. I need to realize that.

J

FG,
Was your response directed at me? Because the answer is no. College has ended up being a very hard experience for me. Told everyone this is the time I will succeed and did not. Hard to tell people you have flunked out again. Not good for the self esteem.

Jay,
I think if it is what you truley want to do go for it. I know as an ADD er I think about things so much I end up never doing them. You seem to have a lot of insight and compassion. Go for it!
Jim

LOL, J. that post was for gymsocks. OOOPS, we got crossed up. Imagine that.

I think 2 things on yours.

First, do you need a cheering section or a good shove in the direction you already know you are headed? I LOVE the former, but I NEED the latter.

Second, therapists, psycologists, even MD's (look how I inadvertently went up wiht that) roll around in the mud like the rest of us.

For what it's worth.

Go Do It!!!

And I recommend to ANYONE who has a "dream" or has some semblance of knowledge of what they want to do -- JUST GET STARTED.....If you just get started, the universe will lead the way....Even if it's the wrong first step -- the universe will let you know that too.....The only failure is never trying...and I SOOOO believe this to be true....:)

gym, you're doing pretty well in your career, I understand, so why bother going back?

I loved college! The learning part, not the studying, being on time, competing, parking, paying, socializing, pre-requisites....

I think I may go back and audit some classes. When all of the freeloaders move out of my house, that is.

I tend to need the shove if its something I am afraid of. Once there I probably would like to have the cheering section. Ohh how I dread certain things! There is also the time factor, but that is just an excuse. I look at myself in the mirror, and I wonder how long I can avoid embarking on the dream, if the dream will just die and fade away. It doesn't and I feel it harder and harder to look at myself. How long can I continue to avoid that which is before me as an opportunity and how long will the opportunity be before me? Will I grow old wishing I had - will looking in the mirror get harder every day, every year, every decade? How long can I avoid jumping off the cliff? I always feel like its a cliff when there is a huge decision in front of me. I felt that way when I was deciding whether to go into my own business or not - just like I would jump, and if there was anything good about what I was doing I would not fall to my death. I feel it again. My bones creak against it, but my mind surges forward wanting it. Why can't I be satisfied with what I have? It's my nature.

J

FG,
I think I always keep the option of going back open, but at least at this point I do not plan to. I really do not have a reason to.

I love to learn also. The studying was what killed me and the numerous parking tickets :D

J--something to be said for the rush of a good free-fall.

lol at parking tickets. I forgot how hard it is to park.

I am seriously thinking more on the lines of private education and just realized one more reason ...parking! I don't have time to fight for spaces and be late to class!! I can't come extra early; I have a business to run and children to ferry around. I'll be lucky if I can have time to attend class let alone struggle for a parking space. How funny..why did you choose to go to private graduate school over public graduate school? ...because the parking was plentiful.

:)
J

Hey FG ~ come to Florida and we can jump out of a perfectly good plane together.

J

TY Joan for your encouragement. I know you did it, despite any fears or perceived obstacles.

J

I could park okay most of the time. It was remembering to feed the meter that got me. Over $400 parking tickets. :eek:
Jon,
I think you have answered your question. Its time to take the plunge.
Jim

Finished High School and have taken many night school College and continueing education classes.

Just for intrest sake the High is done this way for a reason

and the reason is.... (Gary?)

I think Garry is trying to say it's because he......is.....tall :)

James guessed it

i know this thread is really old but just wanted to add my 2 cents...

there is SO little parking in my city... it costs ridiculous amounts if you want to park anywhere. the rent is high too...

also my whole neighborhood is known as "the student ghetto"... lol it's funny becuase everythings so crappy but NOBODY cares becuse we're all students!! 6 guys live in the upstairs of my house and have parties all the time - one time we had 3 kegs in our front hallway, lol

btw i TOTALLY agree that education means nothing compared to practical experience... from what i've seen you learn almost everything on the job anyway. this is all just background.

I met an engineer over the summer who had never gone to college, but instead started as one of the guys who did the grunt work (this was in the oil industry). he took classes through the company and read up on stuff, and he worked his way up to being the top sort of engineer there. he was the best at his job and everything. but it was difficult still, and it took a lot of being in the right spot at the right time. also most engineers at that company only stay an average of 2 years before moving on or moving up. his education background prevented this, even though i'm sure he would have done a fantastic job.

it's really sad and if i were in charge of the world i would change it! lol (spoken like a true naive college student...)

Yes it is an old thread chris
but I wish to expand on your point of the engineer who was self taught with a true life storey

I worked at Fisher Bearing in 1983-1985 starting as a machine operator and working my way up to Quality Control Technician

10 of us won 1/2 a million dollars in my department in 1985 and shortly after I quit at FISHER BEARING and moved on in life to other jobs and interests

12 Years later when I was looking for a job I saw my same job that I had when I left FISHER BEARING was open , so I applied and was rehired

When I went back all the leadhands had been promoted to forman and all the supervisors had been replaced by ENGINEERS fresh out of college.

These engineers were very smart kids but They didnt know JACK about making bearings . They were all book learned and many of them thought thaat that was the only way to do the things we had to do.

You would see these new people come in when they were fresh hires wanting to change the world as they knew so much becuse they were ENGINEERS , and six months down the road you would then see them starting to get down off there high horse and start talking to the simple people , the machine operators and the Quality Control Techs to see how we would go about solving some of the simple problems that were costing the company millions of dollars every year.

ALLWAYS REMEMBER

what you seem to have learned allready

I TOTALLY agree that education means nothing compared to practical experience... from what i've seen you learn almost everything on the job anyway. this is all just background.


and you will do fine

Well, I think that what you say "Education mean nothing compared to practical experience" is not all correct. Education is like a big test. It shows that you can have the discipline to follow through on something. It exposes you to a lot of perspectives and can be a key to get you through some doors. Education needs to go hand in hand with experience. Most degrees will take you at minimum 4 years, most of the time more. It took me from fall of 86 to Spring of 94 to get my degree. I did take a break of a year and 1/2, but it still took time and long term commitment. There were papers and group projects, deadlines and tests. All of those things show that you can complete stuff.

This not a comment on those who have not gone to college because I know that in working there is responsiblity and stuff you get done. You develop systems and you do your job. School is not for everyone, I understand that. I just wanted to share another view on it. I guess, also, I really loved being a college student. My wife is back at school getting her masters in Spanish and I envy her a little. Granted it is not the same as when you are single with no kids, but I love the college campus environment. It is not boring, and if it is one particular semester you would always have another set of classes very soon with New challenges. I guess it must have fed something in my ADD, that part that always likes to start something new: New class, new project, new paper, a new hunt.

I am taking a Creative Writing class this semester at a community college, just for fun. But it is exciting anyway to be back on a college campus! :)

I stand 100 % corrected and agree with you totally.

My prasing of this matter was definatly a sign of poor wording and judgment

Foot in mouth disease i think

I have forced myself to go to detention and stand in the corner for 1 hour

but experence is worth 51 % and education 49 %

Yes I agree with you too, I guess what I really meant was that all the education in the world won't help you without experience.

But yeah... college definately improves your thinking skills - i've noticed that i've gotten a LOT better at scrabble (i actually beat my dad!! plus I don't take 10 years to take a turn anymore...) I'm convinced it has somthing to do with the problem solving skills i've been learning. also thinking outside the box.

foot in mouth diesese here too.... lol (aren't we great?!)

The thing is that I go to a really stuck up school - all theory and research, no real life training. and also 80% of the students here come from families with a lot of money, they dont' pay for their own school OR anything else... they take it all for granted and think they are so smart becuase they go to a "GOOD" school.

Somehow or another I think the school brainwashes the students into thinking they are somehow superior to other schools (and by extension, also people who didin't go to college.) That's the attitude that I hate, and it kills me everytime I see it.

Yes, I think that there should not be that kind of attitude of superiority regarding school.

And sometimes all the education in the world can't teach people common sense.

"If you have a university degree, you can be sure of one thing: You have a university degree." --- unknown

I spent so much time, money and grief just to get an undergrad degree and I'm really bitter. I didn't access student services (don't think they had them then) to keep my marks from being lackluster to dismal. Didn't know about the ADD at that time (thought I was just a loser). I believe it may have been a bad choice for me. I got stuck with a huge student loan, a useless degree and a job that I dislike that pays 5/8 of f***ing nothing.
Life has taught me so much more.

Is this bad parenting: We are already starting with the "College isn't for everybody, kids" speech? <----Is that a question?
Our kids our 11, 8, 7 and a couple babies. The big kids all have ADHD with varying degrees of H. They are brilliant, (unbiased as I have had it confirmed to me by ininterested parties) but have so many interests other than acedemic. They all like school, like, not love. So what to do? I certainly cannot afford to send them all to college. The college funds we started years ago took a dumper after 9/11.

Hi FG -- Thought I'd just share a little of my experience (having raised a "successful" ADD son as a single mom).
I think "like school" is acceptable because it isn't "loathe school". That tells me your kids have adapted to that environment exceptionally well as kids who have AD/HD.
I suspect you define your parenting role as that of teacher/coach/space-maker etc. so it probably comes to you quite naturaly to teach while you parent. Just using your gift of remembering childhood and making choices from there.
I always wanted my child to attend university and I needed to come to terms with how my expections (and secret, unfulfilled dreams of my own) were getting in the way of my true appreciation of my kid as he was. Who he was didn't jive with my plans for him. When I let go, he soared. He didn't attend college, but he never stopped learning (a value that I hope I had something to do with). Because "hands on" is essential for him, he willingly apprenticed himself to several good mentors over the years. He emerged solid in his work and emotional life (I'm so proud of him, can ya tell?). He works as a studio sound editor and has flexibility with regard to how when/how much he works.
His handwriting still looks like something from grade 6, but he's a fast typer.
His genius is in finding his groove.
As a single mom, I undoubtedly placed more responsibility on my son that was good for him. Ironically, this is what he tells me helped him the most. Go figure.

I wish I had not gone to college. I tried on 4 different occasion and never did succeed. I am still dealing with self esteem issues from that time in my life. I beleive there are other alternatives college and I wished I had explored them. I worked 15 years at very low paying jobs until I found an above average job I could do well and moved up. I think all kids should be presented all the options. when I went to college ADD inattentive was not well known. I think college is great, but it is not the answer for everyone.

Thanks for the validation, guys:D I went to college, but (surprise) didn't graduate. I'm really ok with it except I still feel like I have let down my parents. I think I will just learn from that and NEVER, EVER use the word "disappointed" with my kids. It is so much more damaging than "angry." I wish they were angry, I know what to do about that.

Don't you hate it when you hear, "the world needs ditch-diggers, too?"

Yes "disappointed" is a very ugly word. although you know from my posts I do not do well with angry. I am learning to deal with it slowly bu surely.

Originally posted by Christiana
Yes I agree with you too, I guess what I really meant was that all the education in the world won't help you without experience.

But yeah... college definately improves your thinking skills - i've noticed that i've gotten a LOT better at scrabble (i actually beat my dad!! plus I don't take 10 years to take a turn anymore...) I'm convinced it has somthing to do with the problem solving skills i've been learning. also thinking outside the box.

foot in mouth diesese here too.... lol (aren't we great?!)

The thing is that I go to a really stuck up school - all theory and research, no real life training. and also 80% of the students here come from families with a lot of money, they dont' pay for their own school OR anything else... they take it all for granted and think they are so smart becuase they go to a "GOOD" school.

Somehow or another I think the school brainwashes the students into thinking they are somehow superior to other schools (and by extension, also people who didin't go to college.) That's the attitude that I hate, and it kills me everytime I see it.



Yes, I think that there should not be that kind of attitude of superiority regarding school.

And sometimes all the education in the world can't teach people common sense.


__________________
-James




Thank you for putting my thoughts to better wording


And sometimes all the education in the world can't teach people common sense

Originally posted by FlakeyGirl

Don't you hate it when you hear, "the world needs ditch-diggers, too?"



Yes, what a dumb remark....because it's not all black or whie....either one goes to college OR becomes a ditch=digger....it's not like this....

I spent so much time, money and grief just to get an undergrad degree and I'm really bitter. I didn't access student services (don't think they had them then) to keep my marks from being lackluster to dismal. Didn't know about the ADD at that time (thought I was just a loser). I believe it may have been a bad choice for me. I got stuck with a huge student loan, a useless degree and a job that I dislike that pays 5/8 of f***ing nothing.

Gosh, I can so relate to that, although it wasn't college that tripped me up but law school. I wish I'd never gone. It was one of those impulsive decisions borne of ADD. I worked in a law firm as a paralegal and I liked the people I worked with, ergo I concluded from that I should be a lawyer. The attorneys I was friendly with begged and pleaded with me not to go: Get a master's degree, get an MBA, ANYTHING, but don't go to law school. Well, I went anyway.

I was there about a week and I knew I didn't belong there. Still, my parents urged me to stick it out for the semester and then for the year, and before I knew it, I was finished and had a JD in hand, along with a student loan payment as big as some mortgages and absolutely no desire to practice.

The whole experience of law school was very rattling for me, emotionally and otherwise. I've always thought of myself as smart, but in law school I started to think I might not be. Before that, I'd always coasted through school. I never cracked a book in grammar school and high school, and except for some stumbling through Algebra and science classes, I did well. Things came easily to me, and I write well, which makes up for a lot on tests. :D College was even better, I really flourished there, because once I got the stupid required classes out of the way I could focus on what interested me, and usually what interests me comes easily to me as well.

Law school was a whole other ball of wax. It's not an environment conducive to the ADDer. For starters, the accepted method for imparting knowledge to students is the Socratic Method, otherwise known as Learning By Terror. You HAVE to be prepared unless you want to be picked apart and humilated by the prof in front of 100 people. Of course, I rarely was prepared. They deliberately give you more material than you can ever hope to cover in a night's worth of homework. For someone with impaired priortizing skills, this is the equivalent to being tossed overboard from a ship sans lifeboat in the midst of a storm. To make matters worse, not only is there too MUCH material, but the great majority of it is boring. Nothing makes an ADDer's eyes glaze over faster than reading from the Internal Revenue Code, lemme tell ya! In addition, there is ONE test per class at the end of each semester, so it's sink or swim. I had migraines for three weeks leading up to finals every semester.

Now, certain aspects of law do appeal to me. I'd probably make a great judge. I like to parse out the more abstract concepts and theories on which law is based. I like to talk about justice and morality and all of that. And every time I hear about or read in the paper of some horrible injustice done to some child or elderly person or animal, I am overcome with an urge to call the state bar and have them send me an application. But the urge always passes when I remember that 90 percent of the job isn't spent in court championing the downtrodden; it's spent bent over a desk for hours and hours and HOURS (AS IF I could stay focused for that long!) with cases and codes and all kinds of other boring stuff doing research and writing briefs and memoranda and petitions and . . . Z z z z z z z z z z z

I wish I had known BEFORE I went to law school what ADD was and that I have it. I might not have gone, or I might have at least made sure I had medication for it and took advantage of the resources center that's there to help people with learning difficulties and other disorders. Instead I hit the wall (as ADDers usually do at some point in their lives) and to this day I struggle with feeling stupid or flakey in certain situations -- all of that in addition to my debt load.

So I said ALL of that to say, for anyone with ADD considering law school, I won't say don't go because obviously there are lawyers with ADD who do quite well for themselves and as with everything, if it's something that interests you, the hyperfocus will come in quite handy. But if you go, make sure you have some coping mechanisms, safety nets, whatever you need in place FIRST. Talk to the learning resources office, find out about accommodations you can arrange (maybe more time to complete your tests or whatever, tape recording your classes for those who have a tendency to tune out, etc.) because it's a treadmill and it won't take long at all to fall behind and then you're drowning.

From ShinyObjects ----> Quite happy working in the far less lucrative but way more exciting world of web production

College does not make you successful - you make yourself successful! I dropped out of college 20 yrs ago & recently went back. It is easier now (especially on meds) & am about to graduate with my masters degree. There was no way I could have done this when I was younger. I needed the life experience to help me cope. BTW I was already successful in my career before I went back to college. It was a free choice to expand my horizons, which is what any education should be.

As usual I am going to have to make a counter point. I agree that we should not judge people for their lack of education and that sometimes people with real world experience are better at the job BUT… I also don’t like people who are anti-education either. Maybe I am biased, I, like ShinyObjects am using my law degree (and MBA) to cover a hole in the wall.

Let me explain. I work for the government. <ducks to avoid eggs and rotten tomatoes> In my career field you now need a bachelor’s degree to get in and a masters to get beyond a certain point. Most of the people I work with have neither. They were allowed to keep their current positions but they cannot move up. So most of them are just hanging on until retirement.

One of these hangers on is particularly nasty. She always complains about ‘people with pieces of paper who don’t know anything.’ I don’t criticize others for the choices they make and I don’t think it’s right for them to do it to me. I suppose in a way she is right but it still ticks me off. I mean those people don’t have diplomas but they do have homes, families, and spouses, all things I don’t have. But I will.

Because I am over educated (and under appreciated), I have very good prospects for moving up in this career field either here or anywhere else the US Government operates. Things are definitely looking pretty good for me right now. I am weighing my options, looking at the opportunities out there and I finally feel like I am getting somewhere. None of that would be possible if I didn’t get those ‘pieces of paper.’

I have an associates degree in Electronics...Would have been nice if ITT Tech would have told me that electronic companies would only hire ppl that had work experience..then I would have tried to go out and got me a job in electronics before I knew what I was doing. sheesh go figure!

Finished high school, did not know myself then what to take, so I tried Auto Mechanics. Could not grasp every thing I was trying to learn on the subject, no tutors in this area to help me, so out of flustration I quite before 1st year was in.

Soon after was put on disability and the student loan was forgiven.

About 10 years later I tried again, 8 month course for CDL Truck Driving License, and I passed. I just don't feel comfortable that I have enough training and never seriously followed up in that work field. Had a contributor at the time anonimously help with my cost for the course, I was paying when I could, but some reason the person up and withdrew the account with the bank I was paying through. No one could ever help me locate the contributer to finish my financial obligation.

Now I want to go back, Now I finally know a better direction for my schooling efforts, but I am stuck on trying to also bring in income to maintain (so schooling is not realistic) but I am trapped because of the lack of certified education. I am at a cross of wanting to advance in english to brush up on my writing skills, and business management, or finances field to add to what I currently work in now.

I have been told my student loan is barred, due to disability (but they claim that it should not be - since I am no longer on disability) All because I got married and spouses income knocked me out of being eligable.

But with my current education, I can't break past $20k per year,

PROTEST... There is NOT a catagory for have attending trade schools/vocation schools. I would have to vote other attended and sucessfuly completed two vocational / trade schools!!
Tammy

I was about to post the same Tammy! *Protest*
I'm in an allied health type school.. It doesn't have degrees.. just certifications.. and it agrees with me much more than any college has :)

Crap I got distracted I saw you are from georgetown! I used to live in Austin :)

High School and two certificates programs.

I went to college but didn't take credit courses.....

finishing bs
double bio chem degree with math minor
then grad school for molecular bio
and hopfully either bioweapons, or food, or drug production through genetics.
i like to play
oh yeah
and would like to make the world a better place too

robnhill---personaly I would prefer you made the world a better place with the food thing there. The biowepons Hmmmmm... I just don't think that would do much to help as the human race can't deal with the wepons it has now safely...unless you go into anti-biowepons.. :D

Tammy

I have an associates degree in X-ray but I plan on going back to college. I went to a tech school before so I didn't need undergrad classes. I will this time around. I am pretty sure i want to go into phychology and get my doctrine but I am going to start college as undecided and just get my undergrad done and explore other opptions. Maybe I will find something that intrest me more? Who knows?
X-ray just didn't work out for me so this time I plan on asking to shadow someone before I go though all the classes to end up back in something that doesn't work out for me. Esp since going for a doctrine will take so much more time and money I want to be postive and without a doubt that this is what i really want to do with my life. I have even considered double majoring in either business or health.

Wow I wanted to be an x-ray tech about five years ago. I worked at a walk in clinic and took "basic" x-rays for about two years; I loved it (exception screaming kids plus freeked parents) After two years some law changed and I had to take classes called something along the lines of uncertified x-ray tech.

The lady who taught me worked with "real" x-ray tech. students on thier second year clinicial. Anyway I have a goofy personality. She taught some of the other girls two and three at a time; she saved me for last and I was "in a class by myself", literialy. On the first day of my class she started to explain some basic stuff like the way x-rays make images (du) I complted her sentences. See looked at me and said "I see you have already read the book"
I'm like " what book?"

Apparently I 'm smarter than I act. She was especially surprized I even knew she saved me for last because she thought I would be hard to teach. By the end of our short sessions she asked if I'd though about x-ray school, The closest one for the classes was in Witchafalls( the other side of Texas from San Angelo where I lived at the time) It was an unreachable for me at that time because I still had my girls at home.

Scense then I've went to drafting school, wanted to be a carpenter, archetect, and an auto macanic, maybe hang out here and see where my present recycling business goes. If it don't get to growing in the right direction in next year 18 months, may go back to nursing.

I have sooo many interest I couldn't figure out what I wanted to be "when I grew up". Instead for doing the "norm" thing of picking one career thought I would try them all( or at least as many as I can before I die)No ADD traits here.

What about your previous career didn't fit? Did you just get burnt out? I got feed up with nursing. I don't blame you for not wanting to invest years learning some career only to hate it. That is why I asked what about radiology "didn't fit" you may want to avoid what doesn't work. Good luck. Shadowing someone is a sound idea.

Tammy

Meadd, I actually did well in school. Graduated with 3.89 GPA but when it came to my clinicals I got overwhelmed. I needed more one on one training . It was too fast paced where I was at. I did fine with darkroom, extremities, and chest but had a hard time with just about everything else. I also had a hard time with the fact that you end up hurting people in some positions you must try your best to put them in or get greif from the radiologist.

I don't work well under that kind of pressure where you lose no matter what you do. Either get your boss mad at you or put someone in physical pain. Too many people out there don't know that you have to do what may hurt them doing an X-ray. Trying to explain that to them when they are already in tears from pain doesn't help the situation. I don't want to hurt them but you have to come as close as possible to the view you need as you can. Still even so the radiologist complain you didn't do it right knowing your not supposed to put them in more pain than they can handle. At the sametime if you don't come close you could miss something critial in the x-ray that needed to be seen.

Also not having all the equipment like the sponges got to me. Some pt's could have been so much more comfortable had we had them. Each machine was different I had a hard time remembering which did what better. We didn't have all the different size films you should have. It was all just so much to remember while trying not to get behind in a place that was fast paced. Not to mention all the Dr's liked different special views done. I couldn't keep up with who liked what and they got upset if you forgot anything. I tried writing it down but sometimes things were going so fast there was no time. You really needed to know without having to think about it. The people that trained me didn't help because they didn't really train me. They just through me in and basicly wanted me to do their job...........I wasn't getting paid to do their job and training someone usually involves being their shadow for a while then trying some with them there. Then once your confident you do the ones you know best on your own. If you do enough right on your own then your expected to know it without help. I didn't get help from day one. They expected me to know how already. You can't get all that training in school. You don't get to see it not being able to practice real x-rays because of the radiation.

I also had a hard time with knowing how much to adjust kvp, mass, and time...........you know everyone is a different size so the same technique doesn't work on everyone or you get flims that are too dark or light. If it had been a set technique for everyone I would have done fine with that part of it.

So basically I got too overwhelmed. I tried going to another less paced place. By then it had gotten to me so much I had developed high anxiety issues for the first time in my life. I couldn't focus on it enough to get better. I was totally burnt out and had to get counciling and meds for the anxiety and low self esstem it caused me. I felt like a complete failure esp. after I did so well in college (which was the first time I had done well in school sence elementary school) and felt like I waisted my parents money. i didn't know I had ADD until 4 months before going to college. My parents can't afford to send me back. I just got lucky (so to speak) I married a man in the military(not so I could get the benifits of course just an added bouns hehe). So school will be cheaper and I can probably afford to send myself eventually. Once we move and get adjusted to sharing our money. *Sigh* LOL! Part of being in a new marriage I guess!

I was in a Allied Health School. I got an associate of science degree so I voted associates degree. It wasn't a full 2 years though only 15 months. I got certifications there to in..... ECG's (once known as EKG's), phlebotomy, CPR, urinalysis, vital signs, and injections. X-ray techs in most schools don't get medical assistant certifications like we did at my school.

robnhill---personaly I would prefer you made the world a better place with the food thing there. The biowepons Hmmmmm... I just don't think that would do much to help as the human race can't deal with the wepons it has now safely...unless you go into anti-biowepons.. :D

Tammy


unfortunately we are the only ones with the money to research them fully
and since nature is still the best at bioweapons so unless she stops we cann't. and one works on both bio and antibio as you need both.

the us did most of the safety set up for nukes and we gave the info away to our enemies so their weapons would be safe.
it takes a lot of info to keep things safe and you can not close pandora's box you can only deal with information and using the information.
and besides you get great labs when you work for them.

plus it will help with regular disease and other things.

but working on drugs would be fun too.
i like working with plants as well and we need to radically change the way we farm it is to hard on the environment
especially organic farming which is the worst in many ways.

Briannee---I resemble your feeling about the health care profession. Radiology is only one of the medical departments that frequently is expected to care for patients with out the necessary supplies. Nursing also carried many of those fustrations. I did some job hopping in my career. If a place didn't have the supplies necessary to care for patients my mouth usualy got me in trouble. I made it as long as I did in nursing because I stuck to night shifts. There was still much work to be dome but less distractions. Rarely any faminly, adminstrators, calls from MDs ( unless I called them first for patient emergencies). It wasn't until two years after I got diagnosed with my ADHD that I ventured into the world of doctor's clinics, x-rays, labs, and multi-tasking in forced fast pace.

The fact that I got EXCELLENT training HELPED emensily. I would not have done so well had I not been trained properly. Adjusting technique is one of the few things that came naturally. Once I got the hang of it and knew what made it blacker / whiter and what made the film have more shades of grey the mathmatical adjustments just happened. To me adjusting technique is like a percentage thing ( parts of a pie picture in my head) Can't explain it. Like I know exactly how fast I need to go to get from one end of town to the other and hit all the lights green(wish every one did).I know nothing about speed vs distance.I couldn't begin to give an equasion I can just see it I just know I do the samre thing with drug dosage ratios. I ALWAYS double check with pharmist a second nurse ( pref. one good at math) when doing drug calculations but I know the answer before the calculator spits out it's answer. Math good that I can "see" ;spelling bad "can't see"??? Go figure(lol)

I have been to jobs where I was "thrown on the floor". I was blessed that respect also. The nursing school I went to in Denton Texas was run by a very smart RN who did her students the biggest favor a teacher can give. She actually prepared us to be thrown out on the "floors" with out orientation. She knew this would happen therefore no one could pass thier final clinical and graduate until they could handle being "thrown out there" with out making a huge mess. Of coarse patient safty came first so we were never actually left with out proper supervision. The regular nurse was to over see our every move plus an instructor (usualy her, the head nursing instructor) was assigned one on one. So not only were we expected to "handle it" our every move was scrutinized( some thing else a nurse has to get used to). I was barley 17, they counted on thier fingers to make sure I would be 18 when I graduated ( you have to be 18 to hold a state license)

Brianne I BOMBED BIG TIME-- it took my instructor and two other nurses to un-do the mess I created the first time I was expected to "handle" a regular nurses assignment "on my own". I did the patient suff safely but some medications were late, another almost missed procedure appointment in another department, the paper work OMG that is probably still a mess. I knew I had failed but MS. Roberts ( the one who did this too me) had me come into her office and step by step we went over how where and why what went wrong...she drilled me till I was almost in tears ( not because she was unkind but because I felt like such a failure) She gave a second chance the following week after spending a week shadowing a regular nurse on the floor. I did much better my second time around. I hated the experience it was one of the most unpleasent things ever done to me, but 20 years later I KNOW SHE DID RIGHT, as I have been "thrown to the wolves" when I was already licensed and I realy was on my own. Training MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE. I'm sorry you were cheated out of yours.

By the way I too became burnt out. Even with medication for my ADD the medical profession as a hole can be VERY emotionaly draining. When I began to hate it so much I thought I would go nuts I got out and am still out. I am in the rcycling business. I always thought I could run something now I'm going to find out.

Tammy

P.S. New relationships are hard to get used to but well worth the work (try telling myself ever time my partner irritates me) Money has been a BIG adjustment for me too; more than I expected. I think it is a control thing on my part I am soooo used to being in control and not having to share it.

Meadd, Wow I can really relate to what you went through. Nice to know someone knows what I am talking about when it comes to the details of X-rays and the medical field in general.

HUH ??????????????

ROB HILL Could you explain what you mean by this statement

especially organic farming which is the worst in many ways.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Can you explain what you feel we need to change to make farming better for the enviorment

we need to radically change the way we farm it is to hard on the environment -----------------------------------------------------------------
Being that you are from New York City I am assuming that you dont have a lot of first hand experence in living and working on a farm and in a farming cummunity.

I could be wrong on this as you may very well have had many experences

and if so

I will stand corrected and appologize in advance
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Rember to

"Thank A Farmer, If You Ate Today"

and also remember

"If you Have IT"
"A Truck Brought It"

I was curious on the farming thing too but by the time I got finished with my long winded respose to Brianne my meds had worn off and I'd used up all the response space one should so away I went to never never land. Glad some one asked how is organic farming worse and what methods need to be changed in farming, and are they physicially (or financialy) feasable????

Tammy from Texas

PROTEST... There is NOT a catagory for have attending trade schools/vocation schools. I would have to vote other attended and sucessfuly completed two vocational / trade schools!!
Tammy
I have managed to swipe certificate classes over the years, like one day class here or there... have advanced with Excel & Word for office this way!

I just don't have the money or time for college, but I would give anything to change that if I could.

I also do a lot of research, reading and learning on line, through various sites of interest, like the FTC and such on credit reporting issues.

Love learning, wish I could make a job of it,

School can be expensive and time consuming. Most of us have to work to pay bills, many of those who stay home do so with young children. Who could possibly study in a house full of children under school age. Once the little ones get to be school age they want to drag other children home with them. I not only have ADHD but I have dyslexia as well therefore learning can be more time consuming for me than most. The dyslexia makes reading and writting especially hard. I have my computer set so it will not auto disconnect when idel too long. I have it completely off because it takes time for me to translate my thoughts in to words type and edit. This same disability makes chat rooms hard also as by the time I respond another subject has already been introducted and discussed. I have tried the ADD forum a couple of times now that my typing speed is slightly above snail scale. But I still hate who ever dicided to put o & P, M & N k and l next to eachother.

The ADHD decreases my fustration level, as well as focus. My medication helps me with the fustration/ focus thing some but even on my medications my brain will only take so much before it rebels. I still love to learn I just need to be able to learn at my pace my way. Most schools expect things to be learned in a certain order in a given time period. I went to LVN school right out of high school, I went to school full time but didn't have to work. The second vocational school both daughters lived with thier dad most of the time and the school was only part time. I still had to go extra off class time to be able to keep up. The circumstances that unraveled during that 14 months were overwhelming to the point where one of the other student got me a Auto cad program for my personal computer so I could work on class stuff at home ( I was primary care giver of terminaly ill partner) I was blessed by nice people but the fact I graduated was a mercile from above that would compete with parting of the Red Sea.

I got a grant and a loan, which made passing imparitive. Grants now days expect to be paid back if you fail or drop out of a coarse. Loans of coasre have to be paid back six months after graduation.

Tammy

PS I can't believe vocatioal school and certification programs were not listed as an option on the poll.

But I still hate who ever dicided to put o & P, M & N k and l next to eachother.


me too.... :mad:

I am a proud high school drop out. (I felt It was a big waste of my precious time) My mom knew I was just B.S.ing my way through. So she pulled me out and wanted me to go to community college like my brother did, he was 15 when they let him in. They changed the rules a couple years later. The new rule said you have to have a GED, but I couldn't get one till 17 I think, the law in Hawaii at the time. I guess we could have fought it? Anyway, my dad was going to prison, Mom was making her escape. So the entire family went different directions, it was all at once kind of like the BIg Bang.

I checked the some college choice, since I did get my G.E.D a few years later. And attend some college. As it turned out my mom would have liked me to have a masters or doctorate in college. But I had no finnancial or emotional support. (I had all A's for the first semester, I took 8 courses and was self supporting, including the college fee's. Talk about a tough road, (Music college). After a semester I got a job offer performing(Travel) and decided I wanted/needed that more. I never regretted it. But nnnnow suddenly for the first time, I just thought about going back to Music college someday. I have already been seriously thinking psychology. Oh well...Time and money.

Hi Jonathan,
Your poll reminded me of a "suspicious" comment a colleague made years ago, and I thought you and others might get a kick out it:

"I don't trust anyone who's got any letters behind their name. To me, B.S. stands for 'bull#*$&', M.S. stands for 'more of the same' and PhD. stands for 'piled higher and deeper!"

lol, cute, shadowfax!

sorry about not putting vocational vo-tech choices in the poll. I didn't think of it. My apology.

Jon