Not sure if this is the right place to put this, if this is a man/woman thing, if the other half is just lazy inconsiderate and selfish or if I am just far too insecure and impatient (whether or not that is related to ADD is another question!).

I'd just like to know whether any of you have had similar problems in relationships, especially as far as non-ADD partners are concerned when it comes to promising something to the impatient ADDer (who themselves are likely to forget stuff) and then not understanding why the ADD partner gets depressed and stressed over it when the promise isn't kept or the non-ADD partner takes their sweet time over getting something done.


I know a lot of non-ADD spouses have that problem with ADD partners but this is kind of the other way around, i.e. my boyfriend does not have ADD nor anything else that is stopping him from getting his stuff done and getting through life without missing appointments or handing things in too late.

I need to know things there and then or as fast as possible, whereas he doesn't give a s**t if things are unsure and unclear up until it's too late, he's flexible and happy no matter what's thrown in his way. He takes everything in his stride and takes things as they come, not worrying about anything and enjoying his life while I fret and feel burdened and unable to cope.


The problem at hand is the fact that like every year, he wants to go see his parents over Christmas. This year for the first time he has a girlfriend (me) and the idea is that we both go to see his parents for a week or so - but between us we have 4 pets, and living in a student town most people tend to go home to their parents over Christmas (most younger people he knows have stayed here after Uni).

And those few who either don't go to their parents or have parents nearby neither have a car nor would they want to stay at the house during that time (since that would mean their own house would be open for burglars - bf's words not mine). So there's a problem - who is going to look after the pets? :confused:


We discussed this a while ago (maybe 2 months?), and discussed various scenarios depending on whether we'd find someone. Most of these involved either going over Christmas and staying for a week, or going after Christmas when people were more likely to be back and able to house-sit.

In any case what would happen depends a lot on whether his mates or some of the neighbours were here over Christmas or not, which would involve ASKING them about this in advance. He said about 1 1/2 months ago he'd sort it out since he knows several people in the same street (most of whom I hardly know) and he is unemployed so unlike me has all day at home to go round people's houses, make phone calls etc.

Fair enough I think out of sight out of mind, I'll trust him on this and leave it up to him since not only did he promise, but it's also his family we visit.


Aaaanyway, fast-forward to 1 1/2 weeks ago, when my few friends back home start bugging me about what I'm up to over Christmas (because they are wondering if I am going to go and visit them), so because I feel silly not being able to give them an answer I have a word with him, ask if he's even asked anybody about this (he has seen several of those neighbours as well as a friend who lives nearby since we had last discussed this).

He acts all surprised and apologises, saying that no he hasn't but he'll do so ASAP because yes he knows how anxious I get when these kinds of things are uncertain, then we discuss the options again and leave it at him going round to ask the neighbours (his mates), most of whom would be at home as at least one memmber of each household doesn't work.


Fast-forward to today, where even my parents start hassling me about what I do over Christmas and act funny when I say I don't know. Like it's my fault he hasn't sorted this out yet or something!

Anyway I sent him a text message to ask if he's done anything about this (since he has spent the past 2 weeks doing nothing but play games all day) and he acts all upset that I ask about this - after all there's still 4 weeks to go and "If they are not going to be here then they are not going to be here, no matter if I ask now or a day before Christmas". :rolleyes:

Well D'Oh yes of course but is it so unreasonable to ask him to maybe ask around NOW rather than leave this up until the day before Christmas so even on my last day at work I still haven't a clue where I'm going to spend Christmas, while everyone at work has long ago made plans and knows what's what?

After all I mentioned before that one of my friends from back home might have wanted to come and see me, so if he hadn't found a cat sitter I could've arranged for her to come over while he's off to see his parents (that way we don't need a cat sitter) but I'm sat here unable to make ANY plans for Christmas now because he doesn't feel it's necessary to ask about these things in advance.

And yes I know I could do this myself but I neither know these people too well nor do I want to hurt his feelings because as he says he'd be upset if I didn't trust him to sort this out. (Why doesn't he DO it then?) I also know I am overreacting but this is the ONE thing I have been blatantly honest with him and have explained to him time and time again that I get on the verge of a nervous breakdown trying to organise something like a holiday on its own, let alone trying to co-ordinate things when he isn't pulling his weight.

The ONE thing I CAN NOT cope with is uncertainty and sudden changes once I have set my mind on something (or rather once I've been told "This is how we're gonna do this"). I like to know things in advance because change is difficult enough for me without the added pressure of knowing that I won't know what's happening until he deems it close enough to Christmas to bother asking anyone :(


Aaaanyway sorry for the rant but am I being that unreasonable? He does know how much stuff like this bothers me, and he's normally caring and tries to accommodate my quirks wherever he can just like I cater for his quirks and make sure I don't push anything on him that is likely to upset him, but this is driving me NUTS! :mad:

Earlier this year I had a huge fight with me parents because I was given the blame for a similar incident where he couldn't be bothered to get his passport sorted in time and then I was accused of not wanting to go and see my parents and being a lazy cow because I didn't want to book the flights (which my parents had paid for!) before I knew my boyfriend was even able to leave the country.

Anyway I'll go and have my lunch now and hope I calm down before I go home!

Originally posted by Sc@tterBr@in_UK
Not sure if ... or if I am just far too insecure and impatient (whether or not that is related to ADD is another question!).

I'd just like to know whether any of you have had similar problems in relationships, especially as far as non-ADD partners are concerned when it comes to promising something to the impatient ADDer (who themselves are likely to forget stuff) and then not understanding why the ADD partner gets depressed and stressed over it when the promise isn't kept or the non-ADD partner takes their sweet time over getting something done.

I have similar problems.

... but this is kind of the other way around, i.e. my boyfriend does not have ADD nor anything else that is stopping him from getting his stuff done and getting through life without missing appointments or handing things in too late.

I need to know things there and then or as fast as possible, whereas he doesn't give a s**t if things are unsure and unclear up until it's too late,

too late for whom? I contend that I need MORE TRANSITION TIME, MORE ADVANCED PREPARATION, and it is documented in "ALL THE BOOKS." But when I know HOW MUCH advance I need, and ask for it, and don't get it, I do know for a fact that I will have all the problems that result from "inadequate preparation." and I do. So I am the only one NOT surprised, and everyone else gets ****ed with me being ****ed, because in their view, nothing has started to go wrong yet, and in my view, it is already too late!

... while I fret and feel burdened and unable to cope.

Your requirements are not his requirements, and vice versa. You must not expect him to understand yours anymore than he should expect you to understand his, in anything more significant than a language processing depth or significance


He acts all surprised and apologises, saying that no he hasn't but he'll do so ASAP because yes he knows how anxious I get when these kinds of things are uncertain, then we discuss the options again and leave it at him going...

Fast-forward to today, where even my parents start hassling me about what I do over Christmas and act funny when I say I don't know.

I also know nothing.

It is "enlightened" when Socrates says " This I know, that I know nothing." On the other hand, he is dead, and by no small detail, the result of being poisoned by his mates the result of being so unbearably irritating.

Like it's my fault he hasn't sorted this out yet or something!

You two DON'T have the same timing or requirements. Both of you need to take care of your own needs, or explicitly make and get commitments with time certain, and leave it to that.

Anyway I sent him a text message to ask if he's done anything about this (since he has spent the past 2 weeks doing nothing but play games all day)

This is irrelevant, unless he is a free loader, at which point you need to understand that you have got a "house husband"... a role not too many men are actually good at filling (thus, the reason they get employed by others who "make" them work...) and accept that the "relationship" and "physical components" are what you are bargaining for... Finally, With boy friend status instead of husband, he has made no major commitment, and you might be well advised not to invest to deeply in a such an "unsecured" loan...


and he acts all upset that I ask about this - after all there's still 4 weeks to go and "If they are not going to be here then they are not going to be here, no matter if I ask now or a day before Christmas". :rolleyes:

True, but irrelevant. Simplify. Set a time certain. don't leave that to chance or differential judgement.

Well D'Oh yes of course but is it so unreasonable to ask him to maybe ask around NOW

Yes in fact, it is unreasonable to "ask him to maybe" when you mean, "to ask him to by time certain."

rather than leave this up until the day before Christmas so even on my last day at work I still haven't a clue where I'm going to spend Christmas, while everyone at work has long ago made plans and knows what's what?

After all I mentioned before that one of my friends from
....
but I'm sat here unable to make ANY plans for Christmas now

Two different styles don't "mix" they "coordinate." mixing always fails!

because he doesn't feel it's necessary to ask about these things in advance.

And yes I know I could do this myself but

no buts! either you can or you can't. There is, in my humble opinion, no such thing as "can but can't." That is sloppy language, sloppy thought. IMHO


I neither know these people too well nor do I want to hurt his feelings because as he says he'd be upset if I didn't trust him to sort this out. (Why doesn't he DO it then?)

Honestly? You already answered this! Because he doesn't NEED to and doesn't REALLY understand your need for him to. So you know this already, why are you asking?

I also know I am overreacting

This really burns me up! Overreacting according to whose needs and whose impositions? How "reactive" would he be if his ability to plan as he needs to do so were disrupted equally significantly? Well that is exactly the rub, isn't it?

but this is the ONE thing I have been blatantly honest with him and have explained to him time and time again

Yes, but explained wrong. you allowed for his judgment, you did not declare a time of day; and your asking him with implied consent is not the same as requiring an honest "yes i will by this time of day this date" and no i can't commit to that. You can't bulldoze his answer by your setup of the question and expect reliable results. You can't include flexibility in the description of the execution that you can't actually survive!

that I get on the verge of a nervous breakdown trying to organise something like a holiday on its own, let alone trying to co-ordinate things when he isn't pulling his weight.

Be clear. He isn't pulling YOUR weight. This is YOUR problem, not his. If he agrees to help, he owns responsibility, but never the problem, never does it become "his weight."

The ONE thing I CAN NOT cope with is uncertainty and sudden changes

Well documented many places. An attribute of ADHD or LD or both.

once I have set my mind on something (or rather once I've been told "This is how we're gonna do this").

I like to know things in advance because change is difficult enough for me

Indeed. Me too. But that is a period. The "added pressure is irrelevant. fail to understand and respect this, (preceding) and nothing further is required to create "disaster."

without the added pressure of knowing that I won't know what's happening until he deems it close enough to Christmas to bother asking anyone :(


Aaaanyway sorry for the rant but am I being that unreasonable?

Yes. I think your expectations of him are as wrong as his of you.

He does know how much stuff like this bothers me,

He "knows" but the distance between that and "understanding" is perhaps infinite.

and he's normally caring and tries to accommodate my quirks wherever he can just like I cater for his quirks and make sure I don't push anything on him that is likely to upset him, but this is driving me NUTS! :mad:

Earlier this year I had a huge fight with me parents because I was given the blame for a similar incident where he couldn't be bothered to get his passport sorted in time

Easy enough "advice" here... don't fight other peoples' fights. Have them argue with your bf. stay our of it. Don't make arrangements for others. Make your own. So what does that do to the idea of "interdependence? Shoots it to hell I think! : )

and then I was accused of not wanting to go and see my parents and being a lazy cow because I didn't want to book the flights (which my parents had paid for!) before I knew my boyfriend was even able to leave the country.

Anyway I'll go and have my lunch now and hope I calm down

You just have to get clear on the details, in large part, skip the reasons! (Coming from me, the reason chaser, that must seem incongruous.) But the DETAILS are all there are.

The "reasons" are an abstraction, and are "virtual" at best. Where they don't help, they don't help.

Just get clear on who does what by when, and the consequence, in advance, if that is not done, met, etc. and then leave it. Pick the times and consequences carefully so they are REAL and really MEET the time and consequences NEEDS not SHOULDS of the people involved. If you screw that up by WISHING to be able to tolerate what you cannot, you'll really have no one to blame but yourself.




before I go home!

Originally posted by Wheel1975 This is irrelevant, unless he is a free loader, at which point you need to understand that you have got a "house husband"...
It matters to me because he seemed to think he had better things to do than sort out the arrangements, when the main activity during the past couple of weeks was something as trivial as playing a game. (So not like he would not have had a chance or time to sort any of this out)

He is not a free loader, the fact that he is unemployed IS an issue for me but chiefly because he is far more choosy (in type of jobs he applies for, NOT quantity as he DOES apply for a lot of jobs) than his work experience (or lack thereof) justifies.

He does do a surprising amount of work in the house (well, for a guy anyway) but the intention is not that he will stay a house husband, and it does annoy me when he sends a handful of applications for jobs that are aimed at high school leavers or people with far more experience in the office area (+ is unwilling to do anything other than relatively cosy admin/office work), plays games most of the time and can't even sort out things like popping round a neighbour's house.

But really that's not for this forum to discuss, and I have ranted about this aplenty in my journal on here ;)


Originally posted by Wheel1975
So I am the only one NOT surprised, and everyone else gets ****ed with me being ****ed, because in their view, nothing has started to go wrong yet, and in my view, it is already too late!

Wow that really does hit home hard, especially about "nothing has started to go wrong YET" part!


I do understand that I need to be more clear in what I say (also remember this is not my monther tongue some things just do not translate all that well so maybe the language barrier also adds to it all?), and that we need to find some way of quantifying our expectations so that we can each understand what the other means.


But in this particular case I have told him that "a few weeks in advance" are not enough when it comes to holidays, I mentioned to him a mere 2 weeks ago that I need some kind of feedback on this (Christmas) issue within the next couple of days (from then on) and instead of doing anything about it at all he spent two weeks playing computer games.

When it comes to anything else I can mostly understand why he feels like I don't believe/trust him to get things done (although that he promised me to do things in the garden 3 months ago - quantified by saying "I have 2 weeks off I will do this now" so not a vague promise here - is another thing where he doesn't understand why I am not thrilled), but in this particular case I have said very recently that I needed feedback ASAP/within days.

*Anyway* off home soon let's see how I can dig myself out of this one. Problem is when I write I can think things through and express myself but in conversation I just end up freezing and can't say what I mean as soon as he shows any signs of being upset or not *getting* what I am trying to say :rolleyes:

As far as "letting them (parents/friends + boyfriend) fight it out" is concerned, I am afraid that is not possible since neither of them speaks enough of the others' language (Parents/friends German, boyfriend English) to hold any conversation beyond trivial stuff like "How are you" and "Oh how nice the weather is today". ;)

Originally posted by Sc@tterBr@in_UK


Wow that really does hit home hard, especially about "nothing has started to go wrong YET" part!

OK

I do understand that I need to be more clear

NO! ( : ) ) Not "more" clear. Clear. Not week(S) not "a couple of days." By Numbered Date. Anything else is uncertain. Certainty is the thing that allows synchroization and agreement on the facts. Explicit and defined. Social "flexibilty" fails between people of different social understanding.

If you say to someone "come over any time" and that is code for "I want credit for saying something nice and never appear in my presence again without an engraved invitation" if you don't both "take" the same meaning from it, there will be problems!

in what I say (also remember this is not my monther tongue some things just do not translate all that well so maybe the language barrier also adds to it all?)

I think the desire motivated practice of working with social assumptions that are not actually assumed the same by both is more likely the major problem.

, and that we need to find some way of quantifying our expectations so that we can each understand what the other means.

EXACTLY!


But in this particular case I have told him that "a few weeks in advance"

"a few weeks in advance" is a distaster between you. Not because I say so, because you say so. So DON'T do that again! Say "by numbered day" or don't engage on this topic.

are not enough when it comes to holidays, I mentioned to him a mere 2 weeks ago that I need some kind of feedback

some kind of feed back MEANS something to you different from what it means to him. Therefore, you MAY NOT SAY IT TOO HIM and get the result YOU WANT.

on this (Christmas) issue within the next couple of days (from then on) and instead of doing anything about it at all he spent two weeks playing computer games.

His use of his time is his. You really have no business bringing that up. If he is expected to be contributing MONEY in the amount of $XXX EU per week, and he isn't, that is germane, but a different subject altogether, and not related to what you want him to do that he isn't... except it is one more thing he isn't doing that you want him to do. You wanting him to do things he doesn't already do may be a problem... your problem.

When it comes to anything else I can mostly understand why he feels like I don't believe/trust him to get things done (although that he promised me to do things in the garden 3 months ago - quantified by saying "I have 2 weeks off I will do this now" so not a vague promise here - is another thing where he doesn't understand why I am not thrilled), but in this particular case I have said very recently that I needed feedback ASAP/within days.

Time management class taught us never say ASAP. It is Possible so differently for one than another. Set a date and time for starting and completion. That is all.

*Anyway* off home soon let's see how I can dig myself out of this one. Problem is when I write I can think things through and express myself but in conversation I just end up freezing and can't say what I mean as soon as he shows any signs of being upset or not *getting* what I am trying to say :rolleyes:

I'm with you there!

As far as "letting them (parents/friends + boyfriend) fight it out" is concerned, I am afraid that is not possible

Great! I'm not kidding! they have a bone to pick, let them get a translator other than YOU.

since neither of them speaks enough of the others' language (Parents/friends German, boyfriend English) to hold any conversation beyond trivial stuff like "How are you" and "Oh how nice the weather is today". ;)

Good luck!

My contention is that, regardless of our understandings or expectations (based on understandings...) if reality

DEMONSTRATES

something else, it is the reality, not our expectations or understanding that needs to have the credence and respect.

He is NVLD? Unrealistic? so why not expect that that alone makes these "otherwise" reasonable expectations, truly, unreasonable?

Again, if it is demonstrated that he "doesn't" get these things done in this situation, what is the most fruitful portion to argue?

How it MUST be a way that it isn't?

Or how to understand how it is?

... to provide leverage for getting to the goal regardless of the inscrutability of the presenting problem.

To me, this dynamic works BOTH WAYS in EVERY ADHD or (other) differential relationship. IMHO

really. If you think he CAN do this and he just ISN'T, are you serious? What motivation do you attribute to that? Have you confronted yourself explicitly with what that is and evaluated whether you really think so? Have you confronted him? Does he agree or disagree.

If he does not think he is "doing or not doing" just to get your goat, and you believe him, where does that REALLY leave you? What do you REALLY think is REALLY going on? Really?

Sc@tterbr@in you have an amazing amount in common with my poor wife...

All I can suggest is that you communicate with him as much as you can how much this upsets you. He doesn't want to be nagged, and you don't want him mad at you, but that doesn't justify things going all nutso and wrong in your life. If he loves you he will find it in himself to respond to a gentle but firm approach.

To be blunt... you might consider having him read this thread.

Thanks for your responses!

Wheel - The "expectations" are not unreasonable, especially since this is not about something I have asked or told him to do, but about something that he volunteered to do, things where he said "No worries I am going to ask X Y and Z", in response to which I reminded him that I would be greatful if he could ASK as soon as possible (and he DID see all of the people he was going to ask shortly thereafter so there was a chance without even having to run after them or ring them) because "You know how worried I get when I don't have enough warning".

I even said I could do it if he didn't want to and because he knew how I really wanted this done more than a few weeks before Christmaas, and I didn't say "Organise this" it was merely about at least putting out the word, asking a few people if they would even be here.


By the way my parents never had a "problem" with my boyfriend, they simply decided that it must be my fault (i.e. that I didn't really want to go and see them) that I hadn't booked the tickets more than a few weeks before going, where

a) I was overwhelmed with trying to organise everything and plan cat sitters/house sitters/book my holidays/co-ordinate things with when my few friends back home would be at home, and

b) I couldn't just book the holidays when I wanted, since it took the other half a few weeks to even start looking for the papers he needed for his passport ("There's no need it's months away yet, stop fretting"), he then realised he didn't have them, had to get them from his parents, then took his sweet time in filling in the forms and sending off for his passport.

To him it was incomprehensible that I couldn't just book the flights without knowing that he actually had his passport.

Instead, I wanted to know he had it in his hands before booking the flights and risking losing the tickets or having to leave him here simply because he'd sent off for his passport too late or because the passport took longer than the absolute minimum time he was told it would take.


As for NVLD - well, he read a bit about that, decided he had it but had "got over it" and that was it. He has not spoken to anyone who actually has it nor has be even considered looking at other things or researching this any further. He is uncomfortable around new people (whom he doesn't know) as opposed to me who is uncomfortable around ALL people, and as a kid he was slow at learning how to express his body language.

He has no problems handling himself in groups or keeping up with various conversations/looking people in the eye etc., nor has he any problems with understanding pragmatic or any other language, is not naive nor does he have any problems detecting or using irony and sarcasm (that he manages to "catch me out" with this all the time is a different story altogether. I'm not *really* naive or gullible.. but, but... :o ).

He also has no problems with planning and organising, time-keeping or memory, in fact his logic skills and planning are far better than that of most men I've ever met and he is capable of getting an amazing amount of things done without procastrinating ANYTHING.

So no, I do not feel that this has anything to do with something he briefly read about and then diagnosed himself and hasn't as much as thought about (apart from occasionally throwing in "Well my handwriting is bad because of NVLD" and similar quips) for the past 6 months.

He does seem to have a slightly more simplistic view of the world than I do (whereas I overcomplicate and overintellectualise everything, he takes things easy and doesn't worry himself too much about things), but no more than any man I've ever been with, if anything he is far more clued-up than most of them ;)


In any case, as waywardclam mentions as well, this is definitely a problem of communication, and as Wheel mentions earlier on it has a lot to do with what HE deems "enough time".

He is of course right that "a week in advance is reasonable enough" as far as possibly still getting a ticket on Christmas Eve within seven days is concerned (even that is not sure since a LOT of people will be making that journey on the same day), however I would like to have SOME idea how and where I am likely to spend Christmas, whereas to him that doesn't matter as he can visit his parents at any time anyway, even if they live 4 hours from here.

The PROBLEM was in me thinking that just because he had told me he "felt exactly the same way" when I broke down from the stress of trying to sort out our holiday to Switzerland, and explained to him just how HARD it was for me to plan things like that and to prepare mentally for going away when things were unsure and when I don't know where I stand, that he actually DOES feel that way.

He quite obviously doesn't NEED to know things in advance and can happily live for months without a care in the world about what will happen in the future, or what he will be doing over Christmas, because he's happy either way and flexible enough to find himself a comfortable and cosy solution no matter what. I on the other hand, can't do that, and while I CAN always come up with solutions and am flexible and adapt fast, I am unable to ENJOY things or relax when things just hang in the air like that.


I think a LOT of this is also down to the mindset here in the UK.

In Switzlernd (And Germany, France etc.), people plan things in advance (*too* far usually, which is hard if not impossible for me, as my concept of time doesn't stretch that far, however in this case I am not demanding a rigid plan but some kind of rough estimation of what the situation will look like) and it is deemed common courtesy to inform others of your plans and to make sure things are done as soon as possible instead of leaving people in the dark constantly.

But here in the UK, people generally are far more relaxed about these things, they take things as they come and don't worry much about the future or about the consequences of their actions, many don't save money, have thousands of debt on credit and store cards, don't care much for where they throw their rubbish, it's OK for students to waste their student lones on drugs and booze and sleep with everything that crosses their ways, teenage pregnacies and truancy are soaring, things are generally not on time and unreliable and not many people care to pay bills or taxes (council tax, everything else is usually deducted straight from your wage) on time.

Now one part of me LIKES this "don't care" aspect to life here, because there is FAR less pressure on me and I am suddenly not the sloppy, messy, lazy, chaotic, unreliable or uncaring girl any more but here I am actually quite passably conscientious, reliable and punctual compared to the average Brit. People are also more open and more likely to talk to you, so I feel much less like a freak or an outsider who can't "fit in".

I often think that maybe that's why my cousin (classical Asperger and *anally* organised, neat and rigidly tidy) wasn't really seen as THAT odd by our family - after all being anally tidy and rigid is pretty much what the sterotypical Swiss person is "supposed to be like" :eek:


HOWEVER, just because some aspects mean there is less outside pressure on me to perform, to adapt and be "efficient", this doesn't mean that I have the faintest idea how to cope with the vagueness and insecurity that this lifestyle and attitude bring with them.


It's kind of sad really, I have the choice of either being the outsider because I am seen as unorganised, chaotic, sloppy and "odd" (although I was also anxious, overly cautious, rigid and naive so the unorganised aspect of me wasn't the only reason I didn't fit in as a child) in Switzerland, or I can look well-organised and well-behaved to most people, but appear a bit anal and very naive and boring, and feel totally lost and helpless in the vague and "don't care" attitude people have to life here in the UK :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Sc@tterBr@in_UK
Thanks for your responses!

Wheel - The "expectations" are not unreasonable, especially since this is not about something I have asked or told him to do, but about something that he volunteered to do, things where he said "No worries I am going to ask X Y and Z", in response to which I reminded him that I would be greatful if he could ASK as soon as possible (and he DID see all of the people he was going to ask shortly thereafter so there was a chance without even having to run after them or ring them) because "You know how worried I get when I don't have enough warning".

He also has no problems with planning and organising, time-keeping or memory, in fact his logic skills and planning are far better than that of most men I've ever met and he is capable of getting an amazing amount of things done without procastrinating ANYTHING.

The PROBLEM was in me thinking that just because he had told me he "felt exactly the same way" when I broke down from the stress of trying to sort out our holiday to Switzerland, and explained to him just how HARD it was for me to plan things like that and to prepare mentally for going away when things were unsure and when I don't know where I stand, that he actually DOES feel that way.

He quite obviously doesn't NEED to know things in advance and can happily live for months without a care in the world about what will happen in the future, or what he will be doing over Christmas, because he's happy either way and flexible enough to find himself a comfortable and cosy solution no matter what.

I on the other hand, can't do that, and while I CAN always come up with solutions and am flexible and adapt fast, I am unable to ENJOY things or relax when things just hang in the air like that.


I simply don't understand:

1) What defines whether an expectation is unreasonable? Who holds it first?

2) He Understands the importance and hs the opportunity and doesn't perform, because why?

3) He feels the same way, about exactly what? And how does that impact or not impact him doing what he said he would?

4) His personal need for said performance is low, so that impacts his performance? Excuses his failure to perform for you?

5) He doesn't procrastinate, so why doesn't he do things he says he will?

6) You seem to care that he doesn't perform, but you also seem to excuse him in every direction, but still complain.

That combination leaves me utterly confused.

You do not owe me clarity, I just thought i'd share that I can't contribute to this line further from my utter confusion.

Enjoy. see you later.

What defines whether an expectation is unreasonable? Who holds it first?
Personally I don't understand how you can even call it an "unreasonable expectation" if someone promises you to sort something out.

They VOLUNTEER to do something that will profit both of you, under the parameters you have agreed. It would be unreasonable to expect them to do things faster or better, however I do not see how assuming someone will do what they promised constitutes and "unreasonable" expectation.


He Understands the importance and hs the opportunity and doesn't perform, because why?
See below - we discussed this, and it turns out that his idea of "as soon as possible" was something along the lines of "do it before Christmas" (i.e. his personal need was a lot lower than mine)


He feels the same way, about exactly what? And how does that impact or not impact him doing what he said he would?
He said he felt the same about not liking abrupt changes/surprises, he was wary of change and had trouble getting used to things (that was incidentally when discussing NVLD).

I later mentioned again (several times) that I relly have a huge problem with not knowing things way in advance and needed a very long time to prepare for things, especially when going away somewher is cocnerned, and again he said he felt the same.

However if he really had the same or a similar need for certainty and safety when it comes to such changes, he would have had a far greater desire to sort it out as soon as he could, rather than feeling that a week before Christmas was enough.

I do not think he will ever be able to genuinely understand the panic that goes on inside of my head when the thoughts about going away somewhere start snowballing off in my head.


His personal need for said performance is low, so that impacts his performance? Excuses his failure to perform for you?
It doesn't "excuse" anything, but it explains why his understanding of "do it as soon as possible" was very different from mine. If he had a similar need for certainty and "knowing where you stand", his idea of "getting soemthing done soon" would more likely than not have been far closer to mine.

He doesn't procrastinate, so why doesn't he do things he says he will?
Because in most cases (there are always exceptions!) it isn't a question of him thinking "Oh I should do this but I can't be bothered" or "God I don't know where to start", but rather a question of having a vastly different understanding of urgency.

To him (and probably to many other people) it doesn't matter whether the hedges are cut in September or November because they're not gonna grow anyway, and he KNOWS he's going to do this - to me it's a question of *having* to get things out of the way as and when you remember them (since I know I would forget all about it otherwise) or start worrying about "What if the landlord sees that the hedges are a few inches too long, he might tell me off".

So when he says "I'm going to do this now that I'm not working" he doesn't think that it is really somehting he ought to be doing within a few weeks, and he probably doesn't think ahead and consider that he might end up having another placement before he gets it done - and even if it doesn't really matter because the hedge is not going to grow in that time anyway.

I'm not saying I am entirely happy with his "laisser faire" attitude towards certain things (and I know I should tell him this more often, not nag but at the very least not let him think I'm happy with it), but I also know that a lot of the miscommunication is down to me assuming he knows exactly what I mean when I say "I worry about this" or "I need this sorted soon". Hence my vow to use more concrete concepts like exact dates from now on.

Originally posted by Sc@tterBr@in_UK

Personally I don't understand how you can even call it an "unreasonable expectation" if someone promises you to sort something out.

They VOLUNTEER to do something that will profit both of you, under the parameters you have agreed. It would be unreasonable to expect them to do things faster or better, however I do not see how assuming someone will do what they promised constitutes and "unreasonable" expectation.



That is "fair" of you.

But i still think it makes the "ADHD misunderstood" point.

I used to "try" to accept responsibility for doing things without human reminder, without timers, without notes, and without human reminder. Did i mention without human reminder? :)

So I would VOLUNTEER. It was STILL UNREASONABLE.

That's how I can say it. Just because two people make a mistake in expectation instead of just one, doesn't mean a mistake hasn't been made.

On the other hand, maybe he is just a jerk, or maybe i am just a jerk.

Perhaps there is a third option. You seem not to want to call him a jerk, for his failures to perform, but you still complain, and you don't seem to want to consider that it may be unreasonable to hold your expectation of him.

I'd be curious to know what the "third option" might be.

Yours,

Sc@tterBr@in, I have a suggestion that has helped a little bit with my wife, re: the "As soon as possible" bit.

I also have noticed that many times I will tend to "budget" the time needed to do something at the last available slot before it needs to be done... i.e. if my wife says "Can you change the cat litter today?" I assume I have until I go to bed to do it, where she will actually mean she wants it done before company comes over that night...

If you are asking him for favors, maybe you could try being more specific as to the "deadline" you want them done by? Same deal if he volunteers for it, i.e. in the case of Christmas cards, you could say something like "Ok hun, but I really want to have all of our Christmas cards out by the end of the week.... it will stress me out if it isn't dealt with by then." And don't let him argue with you as to the deadline... either he will help you or he will not, I think you should be assertive about this... if he won't help you, then bite the bullet and do it yourself. At this point if he feels bad about not helping you, that is HIS issue, not yours... and if you feel bad about him not helping you, then you have learned something more about him, because he didn't leave it till the last second this time but actually refused outright.

I dunno if any of this helps. I just feel your pain because my wife goes through the same thing with me. And changing the "deadline" to what she actually meant has helped us in many cases.

Thanks for that waywardclam, communication really isn't easy because we may say the same thing but really we mean two quite different things.

I think from my experience this does seem to be at least partly a male/female perspective thing (although I do not feel that many women stress out about stuff like this quite as much as I do), because women tend to want to get things out of the way as soon as possible, whereas most men I know prefer to leave things until last minute. (Deliberately because they feel it's not necessary to do it any sooner, NOT because they are overwhelmed or can't cope with doing it earlier, i.e. not an ADD procastrination thing)

Quote "Not sure if this is the right place to put this, if this is a man/woman thing, if the other half is just lazy inconsiderate and selfish or if I am just far too insecure and impatient (whether or not that is related to ADD is another question!).

I'd just like to know whether any of you have had similar problems in relationships, especially as far as non-ADD partners are concerned when it comes to promising something to the impatient ADDer (who themselves are likely to forget stuff) and then not understanding why the ADD partner gets depressed and stressed over it when the promise isn't kept or the non-ADD partner takes their sweet time over getting something done."

OMG do I know how you feel! This has caused me sooo much stress in my relationships and for some reason I can not over come it. Patience for me has got to be the single most difficult issue in my life. No matter how much I reassure myself that things are going to just have to happen on their own I simply can not stop stressing and pressing issues. I have had relationships end over this and its quite frustrating. Thank God I am finally in a relationship where my partner is very understanding about my ADD..... She still has some hang ups and can be quiet stubborn about some things. This impatience does cause me quiet a deal of pain and some tears at times. I simply can not get over it and I don't know what to do.... I stress and re stress and stress again to the point it drives me completly "Mad" (in the head)

I am going through something in my relationship that requires a HUGE amount of patience and understanding on my behalf and let me tell you I am to the point where I think if I just cut loose and cry about it I would feel better. I keep supressing it thou and just breathing deep when I feel a "bout" of impatience coming on.

I love my girlfriend with a love I have never had for any other significant other in my life and I'll be danged if my impatience ruins this.

I used to stress out about everything it seemed. I kept a lot of it to myself. Over intellectualized/worry worry worry! It seems way easier now, but I am also single 6 years now. Not just a coincidence! But, I actually am wanting to reinvest myself in a commited relationship when I find the right man.

We need to...
Communicate clearly and directly.
Take complete responsibility for what you say.
Take complete responsibility for your state of mind. Everything that goes on and happens to you. I have felt so much more calm, less reactiveness, even in my very recent past only few month long boyfriends/relationships. I just am clearer. I haven't lost my temper over others choices, I don't say things I don't mean. I think it's because I have learned to validate myself in the ultimate way--by taking responsibility for every feeling I feel. I am said by my friends to be a clear communicator and very self aware, it is my life pursuit for happiness/goodness, it just gets better.
I was given a poem by a stranger in a healthfood store, (about10 years ago. He looked in my eyes and said "this may help you" I was secretly very embarresed that people could see my pain in my eyes. I was feeling very hurt for 7 years, straight. (Very sad relationship with the love of my life, (so I thought).
I felt the poem was speaking of me, it completely described the pain I felt daily. This poem helped, I feel so much more in controll. Maybe it will help others. I will post it when I dig it up.
Janine

Thanks Janine and ConfusedAlot, it's good to know that others have the same problems with impatience, and that it is possible to overcome :)

Dig Janine Dig ! I can't wait to read the poem !!!

=P

And sc@tterBr@in I am the one that should be thanking you! Your post made me realize that I am not alone as well. I have always felt that their was something wrong with me do to my lack of patience but since reading your post and the posts of others I have become more understanding. I belive this understanding will help me over come my frustration

Originally posted by ConfusedAlot
I have always felt that their was something wrong with me do to my lack of patience but since reading your post and the posts of others I have become more understanding. I belive this understanding will help me over come my frustration

It has most certainly taught me a lot, although I don't think I can shake the anxiety and the fear of the unknown just like that.

What bugs me is that by nature, I am a patient, well-meaning person who doesn't want to upset anyone and wants to please everybody.

I don't get furious in queues and am not generally impatient (not in the way of swearing when I have to wait for a while) and tend to sink into the depths of my head when I have to wait for something.

I can sometimes get angry (only inside though I would never show it outside!) when things are slow or people act like they're braindead, but even if I'm bored waiting for a bus or standing in a queue, my mind just tends to wander and I don't usually get upset or angry when I'm in a situation where many people might get "impatient" in the classical sense.

However, when it comes to things that are important to me and that I need to know in advance in order to mentally prepare, I start to get incredibly impatient and feel enormously anxious and worry way too much. That's not the kind of "impatience" you generally hear about, so it's really hard for me to understand what's going on, and why most others don't seem to feel the same.

Posted by Scatter: However, when it comes to things that are important to me and that I need to know in advance in order to mentally prepare, I start to get incredibly impatient and feel enormously anxious and worry way too much. That's not the kind of "impatience" you generally hear about, so it's really hard for me to understand what's going on, and why most others don't seem to feel the same."

God is that ever me!!! If it is important to me and I need mental prep I go insane. Its like if I'm having problems with a signigicant other and she desides to take a "break" to think on her own...... I can't help but worry, call her, worry cause she won't talk to me, worry, call etc...... According to the non ADDers I am insecure, Hell i'm not insecure I just need to know things that are important, screw time to think, either a person knows or they don't.