Hi,

I've been on Adderall (about 60mg) for several months now - and am currently scripted for 40mg XR twice a day. I try to stay below that at, around 60mg - more on tough days less on easier ones (when concentration isn't required).

I had little or no problems crashing earlier on Adderall. Now it seems, no matter what the dose - I do fine (I am calm as a cucumber) until it wears off and then Bam! I feel like crap. My heart rate and respiration are just fine while the stuff is working, but go way up when it wears off - almost to the point of panic attacks. Eventaually (in a few hours) it goes back to normal. Its getting to the point where I am not sure I want to continue it anymore for the crash - which is unfortunate.

The only think I can think of that has changed is that I'm wanting less and less food - not that I've lost any weight - so I don't know if its significant. I've tried lower doses, higher doses - all make me crash. Any ideas? Adderall has been so damn helpful, but I dread the crash.

Oh, by the way (not that it probably matters), but I'm an old fart in my 50's - very fit and healthy, however. So none of this really makes sense.

Hey JO :) could you maybe be experiencing what we call a "rebound" effect? That would be a period of time when your ADD symptoms get worse than usual as the meds wear off, then gradually level out to "normal" level of impairment?

This rebound effect... could I be getting that too on Ritalin? 20mg a day.

I am on the fast acting, and it only seems to last about 2.5-3 hours depending, and when it wears off I seem to get more energy.

Sometimes. I am not sure if food has anything to do with it or not, but, I get this extra energy.

Sometimes, it is restless energy and I get irritated, and sometimes it is more like hyperactive energy.

I use to be hyper as a child, but, as I have gotten older I am more inattentive now.

I also notice that I do more "duh" related ADD things as it wears off, and most of the time I dont even realize that I did a stupid ADD things. My BF will point it out to me... and I will be like.... "oh! I had no idea!"

Veighen, any of us on stimulant meds may experience rebound. I define rebounding the same way my psychiatrist did:


"Rebound". This is a period of time after the meds wear off that your ADD symptoms will actually increase before leveling off to "normal unmedicated" level.

This can be very uncomfortable and stressful.

Okay another question.

Why does the rebound happen? Why would your symptoms increase?

thanks.:)

I am not sure about that bit. I am not savvy on the scientific details involved in why the meds work in the first place :). I am more of the attitude that I do not need to know the chemical process by which ingredients become pudding; I either have pudding or I don't. There is no litmus test for ADHD either ;) unless you count the fact that we do not experience the same effects as nonADDers do from the proper stimulants at the proper dosage.

Heres the deal on this, or at least i suspect this is the deal.

Adderall is broken up into two different compounds D-amphetamine and L-Amphetamine. Now D-amphetamine is the nice calming stuff that gives the whole cns stimulation. L-amphetamine on the other hand is a much weaker cns stimulant that effects the cardiovascular system primarily, it gives that physically wired feeling, it causes your heart rate and blood preassure to be high and in general doesnt feel great. So why do they put it in adderall? Because it lasts longer than D-amp and thats adderalls big selling point.

Now kindly explain why rebound is known to happen to people who take methylphenidate :). I was unable to answer Veighen on that score.

:p

I re-posted the same questions in the other thread... just in case?

:p

I re-posted the same questions in the other thread... just in case?:D

We are pretty used to that here V. I am hoping some science-savvy person will answer that for the both of us! Like I said, I have pudding or I don't ;) and I know I have experienced rebound on Concerta.

Theres no real explanation on the rebound other than that ritalin just has a short half life in the body. Which is why they dont prescribe IR ritalin much anymore. Ritalin is another drug guilty of using both the D and L isomer of the drug. With essentially the same results as adderall, the L-methylphendiate creates more cardio stimulation but it lasts longer. This is the reason they made Focalin (its pure D-methylphendiate).

I have experienced rebound on Concerta as well, although I haven't taken it in a while.

What is strange about the rebound that I talk about is that it involves terrible anxiety and heart pounding when the adderall (when its working) does quite the opposite. I am a fast metabolizer - IR adderall lasts only about 3 hours and XR about 5.

Check my first post, i explain the heart pounding stuff.

Jo, have you developed anxiety spirals as a coping mechanism during your undiagnosed years? Sounds a bit like a panic attack you are describing, IMO. Have you reported this to your doc?

"Crashing" is not an apt term to use to describe what is more commonly known as rebounding.

See this post.
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=332001&postcount=11

"Crashing" is not an apt term to use to describe what is more commonly known as rebounding.Well, I "grew up" in the 60's - so crashing seems appropriate - and people can use these terms in ways that do not suggest abuse. I think words are just that - words! So lets not become over-obsessed with them!

Question to DB ...... if L-amphetamine is the culprit, whats the best way to get around it? Dexedrine? Thanks.

I think words are just that - words!

Then why not use them correctly? I grew up in the 60's also and have no problem using the proper word for the proper term...even when terms are updated. Brotherman, not everyone was "crashing" back then. ;)

Well, I "grew up" in the 60's - so crashing seems appropriate - and people can use these terms in ways that do not suggest abuse. I think words are just that - words! So lets not become over-obsessed with them!

Question to DB ...... if L-amphetamine is the culprit, whats the best way to get around it? Dexedrine? Thanks.I was born in the 60's and lived through the cocaine 70's and 80's...I also take stimulant meds as an addult. It is because of the years I lived through that I, personally, prefer to use the proper termilogy to describe the rebound effect. Its is terms like "crashing" that lead the misinformed to believe that we who take stimulants are addicted to our medications, IMHO.

I personally believe that since it is unclear what causes rebound, a person who rebounds on one stim may very well possibly rebound on another stimulant. I do not believe a switch to Dex is a way to escape rebound (D.B.'s theory notwithstanding). I can personally verify that I experienced distressing rebounds from Concerta (which does not even contain L-amphetamine) and that my doctor worked with me until I adjusted to my Concerta and eventually, my distressing rebound receded.

HTH, OP and good luck. IMHO rebound is something some of us just have to work with, or around.

I grew up in the 60's also and have no problem using the proper word for the proper term...even when terms are updated. Brotherman, not everyone was "crashing" back then. ;)Well, then I'll give you another term from the 60's: "lighten up"!

Really, lets get to answering my original question - as it is help that I was looking for. Thanks.

Ok here we go...distressing rebound for me, Jon, was addressed by upping my dose of Concerta, and adding additional IR Ritalin in the evening.

I, and I hope Scuro, are reacting so strongly to your use of the term "crash" because there are so many people out there who argue against our use of stimulant medications, believing we absolutely MUST be addicted to these substances...and use of terms like "crash" may give them more cause to believe they are correct :(.

What happens to us when the meds wear off is rebounding, and this term does not "feed the frenzy" for those who would criticise us.

HTH.

Question to DB ...... if L-amphetamine is the culprit, whats the best way to get around it? Dexedrine? Thanks.Dexedrine would be the logical choice yeah, its just the matter of talking my good doctor into it. Im not sure what sort of weird stuff the adderall reps have been telling doctors so this might be harder than i realize. i think though from a physical stand point the case for a change would be a good way to go. L-amp raises your blood preassure and heart rate dramatically in comparison to plain d-amp. Adderall also requires larger doses in comparison.

I think the reality is that L-amp is just a nasty bi-product of d-amp synthesis and the original company that made adderall lacked the sophistication to purify their product. it just happens to have the side effect of lasting longer.