I have noticed that my recently turned 9-year-old ADHD daughter has been telling fibs lately. Little things like using my perfume but claiming the scent is from her hair detangler. Or claiming she'll be down for breakfast because she is putting on her socks. Only to come down 10 minutes later with no socks on. Or stating that she has to run upstairs to use the bathroom -- but she doesn't. Instead she just wants to change her earrings.

I do not have ADHD. And she is my only child. So I don't know how much of this is typical vs. ADHD behavior? I am really open with her and cool about things. We are not a strict parents. I've talked to her about fibbing and she says she doesn't know why she does it.

Punishment in our house: The first time's a warning. The second time is you have to write in about 100 words what you did was wrong, why you shouldn't do it again and what the right thing to do is. I've never had her do anything a third time -- except now for fibbing.

How do I correct this behavior? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Children lie to avoid punishment. My kids learned at a young age that doing something wrong meant a reasonable consequence, but lying was big trouble. If it is obvious your daughter hasn't put socks on, just look at her feet and tell her to go put socks on. Perfume? Just tell her you know she used your perfume without permission, your stuff is off-limits and discuss how she can earn her own perfume. Turn a negative into a positive.

They also fib when the ADHD steals their momentary memories or makes them impulsive. So combine that with what my cohort Miss Apple said :). She is simply trying to avoid punishment, and possibly her ADHD got the better of her.

Turn it to a positive. I have ADHD myself, so my tactics are different ;). I get to say "Did you go 'Running' when you went for your socks? I do that too, now go get the socks please." or "Now, I know that's my perfume perfectly well. If you forgot to ask first, you had better ask next time or earn your own by (_____________). I don't do that and I have ADHD too, and I have to earn my stuff now don't I?".

HTH!

Thanks for your input. I guess I am wrong to assume that she is avoiding punishment -- because our punishments are not strict. That is why I questioned if this is an ADHD behavior. She is always on the go. And is always 10 minutes ahead in her mind, so in a sense she is not on real time. And I understand that she forgets a lot and may make answers up just to have one.

I just don't want her to get in a habit of fibbing -- for whatever reason.

No, LM, you are correct! She needs to learn how to cope with the ADHD not learn how to cleverly fib to cover it up.

Have you done the reading on the disorder and understand what its like for her?

Is it possible that some of it isnt fibbing. I know I could say to my husband that I am going to get socks, but on the way I am sidetracked by something else. Ten minutes later I have folded laundry and made the bed but I come out with no socks on. It is very very easy to get distracted and forget what you were originally doing.

She may be just answering just to answer. It is frustrating enough to not know why you are doing the things you are doing and then to have to answer to some one else. The perfume, I bet was fibbing, but stuff like the socks, and even the bathroom, she is probably not intentionally fibbing to you.


I imagine this is frustrating for you.

Kayzie, she is a great kid. I've read every book I can find on ADHD just to help educate myself and guide her. That is why I was wondering how much of this is ADHD? I don't want to punish her because she is thinking 10 minutes ahead of my question. Or forgot what she went upstairs for. But I want her to learn early on not to fib about the little stuff -- because she will grow up lying about the big stuff.

Kayzie, she is a great kid. I've read every book I can find on ADHD just to help educate myself and guide her. That is why I was wondering how much of this is ADHD? I don't want to punish her because she is thinking 10 minutes ahead of my question. Or forgot what she went upstairs for. But I want her to learn early on not to fib about the little stuff -- because she will grow up lying about the big stuff.
Im thinking that she isnt seeing what she is doing as lying. She doesnt know how to explain why she didnt get the socks, so she says what comes to mind first. I think it is simply a communication problem. You know why she didnt get the socks (because she is easily distracted and the idea of socks has now left her mind altogether) so maybe say..."Did you get distracted when you went to get your socks? Go get your socks and come back." Remind her on her way to her room that she is looking for socks. We remind our daughter all the way to her room when she is going to get something. She will be distracted before she even leaves the kitchen or living room or whatever room she is leaving.

I would just work on communication between the two of you, and teaching her how to communicate. Let her know that if she got distracted or forgot, that it is ok to tell you that. Right now she is just trying to tell you something so she can answer you. It really is frustrating for her as well.

Below is an article I posted in another thread regarding this issue. Your daughter is only 9 years old, therefore some of the article below won't necessarily apply to your daughter.

I've also seen this discussed in the "Conduct Disorder" section, and in the "Parenting" section of our forums.

Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to locate "Fibbing", "Lying", and "Lie" on our forums. Doing a search for those terms brings up every instance those words were used, rather than "Specific" threads dealing with this subject.

The reason I know this is that my adopted brother's two boys (12 & 15) have ADD and they both have a problem telling the truth, which led me to search for information about this on our forums a while back.

Good Luck! :)

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There are a number of reasons that people lie. The first is fear. This is the most common reason that people may lie, and they are taking shelter from a perceived punishment. It may be because they know they have done something wrong a single time, in which case it is not compulsive lying. But if they are always in fear of being punished, it may become a habit, which is a second reason for lying. In this case, it may become compulsive lying, which is lying by reflex. Even when confronted by the truth, they insist the lie is the truth in this case. A third case is learning to lie through modeling. When a people see others lie, especially when they get away with it, they may become more prone to lying. Finally, people lie because they feel if they tell the truth they won't get what they want. Thus, out of the main reasons for lying, only lying by habit can truly be called "compulsive lying".

Increased lying has been seen with a number of psychiatric diagnoses such as ADHD and Bipolar Disorder. With ADHD people will often say "I don't know why I did that", and when confronted about why they lied, their answer will be the same. ADHD children also display impulsivity, and they may lie impulsively. Bipolar Disorder can be associated with low serotonin levels, which has been implicated in impulsivity, which, as indicated before, makes a person more prone to lie.

Pathological lying, though, can be thought of as being associated with a select few psychiatric diagnoses, which normally have their onset during adolescence. Namely, these are Conduct Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. In conduct disorder, it is common to see lying, conning people and other forms of deceit. In Antisocial Personality Disorder, there is a pervasive pattern of disregard or the rights of others, and with this, the person with this disorder will often lie to get what they wish – usually money, sex or power.

I found that when I was a bit younger, first faced with responsibilities, I would fib impulsively, espcecially when someone used a frustrating tone with me. Example:

"Hey, you took out the garbage right?"
"Yes!"

Then a second later I'd realize "Oh man, no I didn't...". But by then, I had my pride to lose. If I admitted I had lied, I would be in bigger trouble than if I just said that I hadn't taken out the trash, because I lied. But as I grew older and more mature, I started correcting myself with my parents...same example:

"Hey, you took out the trash right?"
"Yes"
....
"Oh, no I didnt. I'm sorry, I'll go do that right now".

My parents didn't understand, so they'd get a little frustated, but at least I don't do it anymore (kind of grew out of the behavior)...and what was funny is that I got rid of that behavior even before I was medicated. That's something to say for self discipline :P.

So in my case, things just worked out as I got older...but it's not always like that...

I have a sister with a lot of different diagnoses..I can't keep track of them all..but she does lie on impulse. And she still does, even though she's older than me. Plus, she won't correct herself unless shes in the "hyper-manic" stage of her bipolar, so my mother now asks questions a little differently:

"Did you clean your room yet?"
"Yes."
"Are you sure?"
"No...I'm sorry, I'll go work on it."

But when she HAS cleaned her room, and she's not lying, she gets extremely frustrated with my mother.

"Did you clean your room yet?"
"Yes."
"Are you sure?"
"YES!!!" (not with pleasant tone)

So this doesn't always turn out so well.


Just letting you know, you're not the only one, and I'm assuming your child will grow out of it, as long as she has a positive outlook on her diagnoses (the main different between my sister and I...I don't let my ADD control me at all, and I don't even like to believe that I have it, she on the other hand, likes throwing out these diagnoses as a way to get what she wants)

I hope this helped...sorry about the rambling.

Thank you everyone for your valuable input. I knew I'd find some great insights here!

I do alot of that lying stuff too. I will tell my mother I have done stuff when infact I have NOt done it. She will call me and say

"Did you change the cat litter?"
"No mom"
"GO do it"
"I will mom"
"Remember to do it"
I will ma"
"To change the cat litter"
"yeah ma"
"Change the cat littler"
"OK" *hangs up*

And two hours latter it still is not done! I do that with EVERYTHING I lye about Everything I do and I thought it was just me, but now I know other people do it as well! I do get side tract by things and if I am in the middle of doing something I will not do what my mother asks me to do untill I am finished with what I am doi ng at the moment. Leaving tasks half finished is a no no for me. I get distracted thought and I will start doing something else while I'm suppost to be doing what mom tells me. Sometimes I even forget wheree things are ((Like the time I put the toothbrush in the freezer!)) I think it is just general absentmindedness tthat does it for me but it might be something else. It is hard to explain but you get it right?

If you ever ask you daughter why she did something and she answers "I don't know" It is mostly because shge really does not know. She might do things onn impulse and she can not explain why she did it ((Like when I dyed my dalmatian dog blue)) I had no idea why I did it and when I look back on it I'm like "That was dumb!" When people ask me why I did it and I answer "I don't know" and they go "That's not good enough" and keep asking me why it makes me very frusterated and stressed, to the point where I want to hurt somebody! Try not to stress her out, but explain to her EVERYTOME she does it why it is bad and make her re-act the scenarioi again and tell her what she should do.

For the getting the socks thing, I always do that! Everyday when I get dressed IU get distracted so try nopt to worry much, she just has a busy brain.

There's something good to be said about people who are honest about their lying! LOL :D

Slight hijacking here, but on a similar note. Devin, my son, does this, but not specifically to avoid punishment. In fact, we have taught him that owning up means punishment is considerably less, but lying means the opposite. However, his 'fibbing' is more concentrated on him insisting he has been in situations (usually exciting) and seen wonderful things etc. Sometimes there's a small element of truth in there, like for instance, he was at a wedding, and they were given chocolate. He was telling me about this, and said "They put on the table big chocolate fountains, and then there were chairs made of chocolate, and big round disks on the table, and we ate them all up." But sometimes, his stories have no foundation whatsoever, and aren't particularly exciting. Like he'll see a horse, and say "I went on a horse with Aunty Claire," when in fact he didn't.

Thing is, he *knows* that the rule is, he can tell stories, but he must introduce them as such. he knows that if he says something that's not true, without telling people first it's a story, then it's a lie, and that's wrong. But he still does it.

What makes it tough is that we have got to the point now where we don't know if what he is saying is the truth or not. Even if it's a lie, he'll protest that it's true to the point of shouting, until eventually, after a while, he will apologise and say it was a story. This of course, leads to problems with making friends etc. And he, the same as the sister mentioned previously, gets really really upset when he *has* done something, told the truth about it, and we repeatedly question him about it.

What to do?

Slight hijacking here, but on a similar note. Devin, my son, does this, but not specifically to avoid punishment. In fact, we have taught him that owning up means punishment is considerably less, but lying means the opposite. However, his 'fibbing' is more concentrated on him insisting he has been in situations (usually exciting) and seen wonderful things etc. Sometimes there's a small element of truth in there, like for instance, he was at a wedding, and they were given chocolate. He was telling me about this, and said "They put on the table big chocolate fountains, and then there were chairs made of chocolate, and big round disks on the table, and we ate them all up." But sometimes, his stories have no foundation whatsoever, and aren't particularly exciting. Like he'll see a horse, and say "I went on a horse with Aunty Claire," when in fact he didn't.

Thing is, he *knows* that the rule is, he can tell stories, but he must introduce them as such. he knows that if he says something that's not true, without telling people first it's a story, then it's a lie, and that's wrong. But he still does it.

What makes it tough is that we have got to the point now where we don't know if what he is saying is the truth or not. Even if it's a lie, he'll protest that it's true to the point of shouting, until eventually, after a while, he will apologise and say it was a story. This of course, leads to problems with making friends etc. And he, the same as the sister mentioned previously, gets really really upset when he *has* done something, told the truth about it, and we repeatedly question him about it.

What to do?
I use to do that ALL the time when I was younger. I would lie about the stupidest things and say I had done stuff that I had not done just to get people to pay attention to him. See the thing was with me, I had no friends and I was a very lonely child (My mother worked all the time) So I would make up stories I guess to compisate for what I did not have. If I told these stories people would look at me funny and I would get so embarassed! But I did it anyway just so I could get some attention. Now I;m not saying you don't pay attention to your sonbut that is how it was with me. Sometimes I just did it because I am a compulsive liar, but most of the time it was for the reaction of the people and attention.
Even now I still do it a bit, like I will add little tid-bits here and there that are exagerasions or are not true at all just so it makes for a better story. I always felt like I needed to beat someone in telling the best story(or in this case lie) I acctually got myself in trouble by do that over the internet once XD
I hate having the feeling no one believes me because that makes me lie even more. I honestly do not know why but it just does. I want people to believe me but it is hard to gain someone's trust after you have broken it. I lie to my mother alll the time about what I have done during school and where I am but that is for a good reason-so she does not worry about me and so I do not get in touble XD

I say do not allow him to tell stories AT ALL. He will just get better at telling more realistic ones and he could get himself into trouble with the other kids. Be openly honest with him and tell him you want him to be honest with you. Tell him Grown-up people can see through lies and that it is not nice to lie to them. Tell him it's a matter of respect and not just because he has too.

I say do not allow him to tell stories AT ALL. He will just get better at telling more realistic ones and he could get himself into trouble with the other kids. Be openly honest with him and tell him you want him to be honest with you. Tell him Grown-up people can see through lies and that it is not nice to lie to them. Tell him it's a matter of respect and not just because he has too.
Sounds like you have learned from your past mistakes and perhaps have become very wise for them. This gives me respect for you. ;)

Thanks for that advice. It's an excellent insight! We have done most of what you suggested to be honest, explaining that we know he's not telling the truth, and being dishonest is not a quality (he even agrees and says that if he's dishonest, he'll not meet a beautiful girl who will want to be his wife!)

Our new approach is, when he starts a story to say "Devin, we don't like lies. If what you are about to say is not true, we don't want to have a conversation with you." then we always follow with something positive, like how much we love his conversation when he tells the truth etc etc. It's just difficult preventing him from expressing his imagination, because you feel bad, because his imagination is like that of a professional writer! It's almost like he's addicted to telling these stories though. We had thought about getting him to write these things down, so they are catagorized as stories, but of course, he wont write!

I guess we just got to stick with it.

Sounds like you have learned from your past mistakes and perhaps have become very wise for them. This gives me respect for you. ;)
:D Aw come on now! WE all learn for our mistakes weather we know it or not. I just hate to see kids in the same situation I was in because it hurts and I know it does. I'm just your adverage teen with too much to say :p Thanks though

Thanks for that advice. It's an excellent insight! We have done most of what you suggested to be honest, explaining that we know he's not telling the truth, and being dishonest is not a quality (he even agrees and says that if he's dishonest, he'll not meet a beautiful girl who will want to be his wife!)

Our new approach is, when he starts a story to say "Devin, we don't like lies. If what you are about to say is not true, we don't want to have a conversation with you." then we always follow with something positive, like how much we love his conversation when he tells the truth etc etc. It's just difficult preventing him from expressing his imagination, because you feel bad, because his imagination is like that of a professional writer! It's almost like he's addicted to telling these stories though. We had thought about getting him to write these things down, so they are catagorized as stories, but of course, he wont write!

I guess we just got to stick with it.
Wonderful idea! I would have never thought of it. I've got an idea! How about every time he wants to tell one of his stories tell him that he can say it after diner (or when ever you have time) and tell him that you'll write it do for him. Then read it back to him maybe and tell him how silly it sounds when a grown up hears it but how amazing it would sound if HE wrote it down. You know the kinda pro/con approch? Sounds like he would make a wonderful actor or Oral history professer

That's an excellent idea. I'm going to try that tonight. Thank you.

The only problem is, that often you don't realise it's a 'story' until he's got a fair way through it, because he is very, very convincing. Also, it'll start with something simple, and as he gets into full flow, it gets more and more outlandish. I know most non ADHD kids probably do this anyway, but he also manipulates people through not telling the truth. Say, for instance, his mum will be upstairs, and he'll ask if he can go on his bike. She'll say no, but he'll come down stairs and say she said yes. It seems like he can't help himself, because he *knows* I am going to do upstairs and check with his mum, but he still protests it's the truth.

Little things too, which aren't even that big a deal, which makes it difficult to challenge! Like today he said that the kids at school got given money for good behaviour. I asked him who gave them money? Was it the teachers? And he said yes. I always call his bluff when I suspect he's telling a lie, so consitently say "Ok, well, I'll check with (so and so)" Even though he knows I always do this, he will still protest that he's telling the truth, sometimes to the point of crying in protest (which makes it really difficult when he actually IS telling the truth.) Then, after he has calmed down, he says "well, maybe it was lunch money, or actually, it might have been their mum." It's then I'm a bit lost as to what to do, because he knows he has told a lie, and he knows we don't like it, but he has come clean, so I'm sort of torn between praise for coming clean, and discipline for lying in the first place. It's difficult to work out where to draw the line!

That's kind of odd. I would say you should say "I know you are lieing now" When he gets to the point where it is juist whacky and outlandish. If he protests do not even fight with him, keep telling him "I know you are lieing and I am not going to believe you if you keep talking."

Oh! How about you throw it in his face kinda. If you DO let him lie say to him the next time he talks to you "How do I know you are telling the truth? Could Mommy back you up? Do you have PROOF that it is true?" I suggest telling him the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and get him to realize if he keeps lieing that no one is going to believe him. My mother hardly believes a word I say (Though I do lie about where I am going and who I am going with) I lie to her just so she will stop bothering me or by mistake and I'm too cowardly to own up to it XD. If he lies about stuff (Like the money) ask him what he thinks makes you believe his stories. I believe in being honest to childern so I think you should be honest with him and tell him alll the bad things lieing does. Tell him storiers about times that you lied and got in big trouble for it. Get him to realize BAD THINGS WILL happen if he says wrong or untrueful things and follow through.

Fibbing: Typical Behavior or Typical ADHD Behavior? Good question -- wish I knew the answer. My oldest daughter (8) who definately has ADHD is painfully honest and always has been. She can however spin amazingly detailed and funny tall tales that string you along for a while until you finally catch on. :D

My youngest daughter (4) who is starting to look more ADHD these days fibs all the time. Even about unimportant things. I know many ADDers are know to lie. Sometimes it's a real lie to cover up a mistake or unfortunate impulse and sometimes they forgot the details and make up details to fill in the holes. She can do it with an absolutely straight face -- maybe it's a skill younger siblings develop. I'm not sure. I'm sure ADHD impulsivity makes lying more probable, but not a given.

I was always very painfully honest too -- like my oldest. If I had ever tried to lie it would have been all over my face, since I have the least poker face of anyone I know.

We're still working on the problem with our youngest too.

Scattered

That's kind of odd. I would say you should say "I know you are lieing now" When he gets to the point where it is juist whacky and outlandish. If he protests do not even fight with him, keep telling him "I know you are lieing and I am not going to believe you if you keep talking."

Oh! How about you throw it in his face kinda. If you DO let him lie say to him the next time he talks to you "How do I know you are telling the truth? Could Mommy back you up? Do you have PROOF that it is true?" I suggest telling him the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and get him to realize if he keeps lieing that no one is going to believe him. My mother hardly believes a word I say (Though I do lie about where I am going and who I am going with) I lie to her just so she will stop bothering me or by mistake and I'm too cowardly to own up to it XD. If he lies about stuff (Like the money) ask him what he thinks makes you believe his stories. I believe in being honest to childern so I think you should be honest with him and tell him alll the bad things lieing does. Tell him storiers about times that you lied and got in big trouble for it. Get him to realize BAD THINGS WILL happen if he says wrong or untrueful things and follow through.
I'm sat here chuckling to myself, because that is EXACTLY what we have done.

He still does it though.

Although, of late, it's less so. I think he's getting bored of us not being interested. It's weird how a tiny change in how we react to things, or even our facial expressions, make a difference.

I'm sat here chuckling to myself, because that is EXACTLY what we have done.

He still does it though.

Although, of late, it's less so. I think he's getting bored of us not being interested. It's weird how a tiny change in how we react to things, or even our facial expressions, make a difference.
:p See, even though I'm younger I know what I'm talking about!
He's probably bored that he is not getting a good reaction from you. Watch out because I think he will start fibbing to other people and since you are the parents you are going to get nailed for it.

My granddaughter started lying when she was about 4. I think it's something most kids do as part of their learning about life. At first my daughter got very upset and yelled and punished her for it. But what ended up working best was when she very calmly says something like, "Okay then, if I go and look at your room I'll see that it's all picked up and your bed is made, right?" And then my granddaughter doesn't get so defensive and has a chance to say, "Let me go and look again first." And she'd goes off and does a little more picking up before she gets distracted again.

I know with me I often gave any answer that popped into my head just so I'd have an answer and not be sitting there looking stupid and saying, "I don't know."

Hmmmmm -- just had a conference with my oldest "honest" child's teacher. Apparently we've been tweaking the truth a bit lately. She fessed up and we had a long talk about honesty and trust. We'll have to wait and see if it takes or not.


Scattered

I have noticed that my recently turned 9-year-old ADHD daughter has been telling fibs lately. Little things like using my perfume but claiming the scent is from her hair detangler. Or claiming she'll be down for breakfast because she is putting on her socks. Only to come down 10 minutes later with no socks on. Or stating that she has to run upstairs to use the bathroom -- but she doesn't. Instead she just wants to change her earrings.

I do not have ADHD. And she is my only child. So I don't know how much of this is typical vs. ADHD behavior? I am really open with her and cool about things. We are not a strict parents. I've talked to her about fibbing and she says she doesn't know why she does it.

Punishment in our house: The first time's a warning. The second time is you have to write in about 100 words what you did was wrong, why you shouldn't do it again and what the right thing to do is. I've never had her do anything a third time -- except now for fibbing.

How do I correct this behavior? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.When I was younger and even now I will catch myself lying, or telling only part of the truth... for the simple reason that it's sometimes easier to lie than to explain the thought processes that led you to do it in the first place. There may have been 4 or 5 reasons to "go upstairs" and it just takes too long/too much effort to explain the real reasons so I might just say "to get socks"....when I really went upstairs because I forgot my wallet or my keys or maybe I forgot the reason I went up there in the first place.

About the perfume: If she is like my brother was when he was younger (he's hyperactive ADD), he would do something impulsively and without thinking about the consequences(like putting on the cologne/perfume), and try to cover it up because he can't explain why he did what he did. He knew the "I don't know why I did it" excuse just wouln't cut it... and by lying, he had at least a chance of getting away with it. My mother was kind of strict and didn't like excuses. He did learn over time that lying and getting caught is much worse than owning up to a mistake.

Anywhoo... Hope this helps.

Hmmmmm -- just had a conference with my oldest "honest" child's teacher. Apparently we've been tweaking the truth a bit lately. She fessed up and we had a long talk about honesty and trust. We'll have to wait and see if it takes or not.Well, at least you set a good example for them! :)

Both of my adopted brother's teenage ADD boys lie and so does he! My brother has lied so much for so long that nobody in the family believes a word he says anymore. It's really quite sad! And now the two boys are exactly like him!

Nobody else in my family lies! Not even my sisters two ADD children lie. (Well not so far at least! :) )

So, I'll just say this then...
I never lied and my sister never lied like my adopted brother lies. My mother and father taught us not to lie. Therefore, in my opinion this isn't about nurturing. It seems to be more biological (Or the type of ADD my brother and his two boy's have).

Oh, and just as a final note, my brother's boys have never lived with my brother because he's a drug addict, so they didn't learn to lie from him!

Which is why I think it's more biologically related!

Peace! :)

I only have memory of lying once as a child and I was so conscious stricken that I told on myself before the day was through. Generally I was one of the most honest kids I knew. I do think a lot of the tendency is biological although I believe a moral upbringing can mitigate that -- but like everything with an ADDer it takes a lot more repetition before those lessons stick. The naturally tendency to mess up more or forget thing really makes it more likely that one might be tempted to lie and add to that the impulsivity that ADHD kids have and well ...

I'm adopted too and when I met my birth family as an adult, the genetic components of behavior and personality where blatantly obvious. However, our religious belief systems were quite different (although I think we all aim to live moral lives) -- so environment weighs in more heavily on those sorts of things. My birth father whom I never met was a criminal and that definately wasn't passed on genetically -- I believe that wonderful environment my adopted parents provided was able to suppress those genetic weaknesses. Some things I've read in Russell Barkley's book Taking Charge of ADHD indicate that moving on from ADHD to ODD or Conduct Disorder has a lot to do with the environment. Environment has little to do with whether you'll have ADD or not, but which course it takes definately is influenced by the environment.

Scattered

...I've read in Russell Barkley's book Taking Charge of ADHD indicate that moving on from ADHD to ODD or Conduct Disorder has a lot to do with the environment. Environment has little to do with whether you'll have ADD or not, but which course it takes definately is influenced by the environment.

Scattered
OMG! I have that book! :eek: I have the parent's guide so it's a bit easier to understand for me since I know what I have to to myself.

I live in a city

DO you think that has alot of effect on how I use to (and sometimes still do) fib?:confused: People here generally are horrible so I guess it is a learned behavor? But no, because Scattered said that he/she never lied. So it is not learned...then what is it?

OMG! I have that book! :eek: I have the parent's guide so it's a bit easier to understand for me since I know what I have to to myself.

I live in a city

DO you think that has alot of effect on how I use to (and sometimes still do) fib?:confused: People here generally are horrible so I guess it is a learned behavor? But no, because Scattered said that he/she never lied. So it is not learned...then what is it?Scattered definately did lie -- just not much. I also have a active anxiety disorder that wouldn't let me rest at peace with a lie on my conscious!;) Strange as it sounds sometimes an anxiety disorder can help balance out the tendency to misbehave that an ADHD kids might otherwise have. I believe it was Scuro who was saying that kids with anxiety disorders rarely grow up to be adults with conduct disorders.

I think lying is an easy behavior to use when you're impulsive and hoping to avoid getting into trouble for one of your numerous screw ups or slips in attention when you're ADD. As an adult for a while I was lying to my husband to avoid fights, because emotion turmoil like that felt so overwhelming to me. I grew up in a very stable mellow home where telling the truth felt safe. Like most things -- lying is a combination of environmental influences and genetic vulnerabilities. We do have a choice, but it is likely to be harder for us than for non ADDers.

Scattered

Both of my sons are ADHD (11 and 8) and sometimes lie/fib without even thinking about it - especially if they are engrossed in watching tv, eating or on a mission to go play or 2 steps ahead of what i just asked of them. It's scary how automatic their lie can be and impulsivity does play a role. And I've found, it's never intended by them to break that "golden rule" in our house that "you get in less trouble when you come clean, than to maintain your lie!" I consistently try to break any cycle that may form.

So, I don't ask close ended questions anymore - I try to set them up to tell me the truth all of the time and sometimes it doesn't work, but they're not very good liars thankfully. (Kind of like the other examples I read in other posts.) I have always maintained with them that lying will never stand them in good staid with their peers, teachers, friends or family - not that it always sinks in. But, me telling them that have one basic rule - if you lie to me and I give you the opportunity to come clean and you maintain your lie...well, then, watch out - horns exposed. :) So, when I ask them, "did you finish brushing your teeth?" and they say, "yeah" - I offer them the olive branch - "sure?, now's the time..." And if they come clean, we talk again about why it's good to try to slow down and think about the consequences.

So, I always ask, "are you sure?" They KNOW what that means at our house - LAST call! Nowadays, i get more often than not, "I'm not sure.." haha, but hey, maybe that's progress.

Scattered-
I lie and fib as well when my feelings are involved. I have very active axiety disorder so maybe that is why I'm realy bad at lieing, but I can do it without feeling remorse or anything. I mean I will feel bad but I won't regret it

Focus88-
I do the exact same things your sons do! My mom will call me ask if I did something for he that she asked me to do in the begining of the day and I go "Uh...yeah!" And sometimes I avoid the situation until I get the backlash from what I did or did not do that I needed or should not have done. I could lie to mom about where I am or where I am going but I always tell her afterwords because then there is nothing she can do about it.
I lie to my teachers too! Like today my English II teacher asked me if I got an essay done and I was like "Yeah it's at home" When I have not even started it yet!

I don't know why my adopted brother lies so much. He was brought up the same as my sister and I so the environment didn't cause him to lie! It's probably all the drugs he's done. Which unfortunately my family has been unable to stop him from doing.

We think that perhaps one of his biological parents (That gave him up for adoption) may have been a drug addict, or did drugs during the pregnancy, but we're not really sure. He has never made any attempt at contacting his biological parents either. So I guess we'll never know for sure.

It's unfortunate that the proper upbringing and good home life that my parents provided couldn't keep my brother from taking the path he has taken. It makes me angry because I know that it brakes my parent's hearts to see him this way, and there is nothing that they can do anymore! They (We) tried for years and years but to no avail. Now they've made it their goal to try and save his two boys from going down the same path. Perhaps we'll have better luck with his two boys!

At least they are being treated for their ADD. Their mother was tested for ADD and didn't have it. My brother unfortunately refuses to be checked. He prefers doing Crack, Crank, Meth, Pot, Alcohol, and being homeless rather than going thru rehab and taking ADD medications. Which makes me mad and sad and hopeless!

That is discouraging Seek. I have a brother also adopted but from a different family who I'm very sure is inattentive ADD. He's not into addiction thankfully, but his life has never quite succeeded to the level I know he is capable of reaching. I think meds could really help, but I've said about all I can without creating a rift. I hope someday your brother realizes he needs help. If he is ADHD, his chances of getting of the drugs would be vastly helped by the right medication and therapy.

In one of the classes I took (can't remember now which one), they really emphasized that "people make choices". It doesn't matter how good or bad the environment, people still make choices. The best parents in the world can increase the chance that a child will grow up to make good choices, but sadly they can't assure it.

Take care,
Scattered

Thanks Scattered. :)

I wish we could talk him into getting checked out. I think it would make a big difference in his life. Unfortunately, he puts all his efforts into getting on disability so he doesn't have to work.

Oh well, sigh... Cest la vie!

Have a great day! :)