Sorry if this is in the wrong forum and if it is please feel free to move. :confused:

Ok... I read the end of the world topic and everyone had good points.

My question is: What are you prepared to do about it?

I don't want a list of amenities that you will cut... or how you will form a rally, or even that you will try to educate the public.

The problem with all of these Ideas and most of the ideas in the other post is that nobody is ready to put any political backing behind them. Everyone here seems to have pretty much the same take as me on global warming and where earth stands at the moment. Still, what can we few do to change the world?

I can tell you now... that writing your local, state, and national government won't work. Even If we could find enough people to start a protest, it would most likely go unheeded.

This is where The object of SB's derision comes into play. Money is the only thing that drives global markets. It's what drives the consumer. It's what makes and breaks political deals. Money buys lobbyists, who then buy votes. How can you or I compete?

The answer is simple. A non-profit think-tank that does nothing but try to generate money. They would hyperfocus on making money... and lots of it. Take ideas for inventions... and make them realities. Take the profits from those inventions to finance other inventions/financial opportunities.

It's hard to imagine a company that doesn't have shareholders... and that nobody profits from except the company, but I think it might be able to generate more money than any other enterprise on earth. Think about it. A company who's sole purpose is to save the earth. Not to fund research into better fuels... or technologies... but to buy them and put them into action for the betterment of mankind.

I hate the idea of a big corperation controlling the masses... but that's what's happening now. A lot of corperations are hellbent on making money and they are killing earth. They hire people with pedigrees that money provided... Ivy league colleges are paid for (for the most part) by rich parents that made their money by destroying the environment.

There are protest organizations that try to save the whales... but they will never be able to do anything other than postpone then inevitable. They might ram a ship and then go to jail... Which does nothing for the whales as a whole... It just saves a few for a time.

I know that everyone in the organization would not agree with all decisions. I just know that money is the only means that will accomplish any true lasting good.

Consider the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. It is a well established fund that addresses human needs, mostly in third world countries where the need is the greatest. The problem is that they address long term problems with short term solutions. They have the money... and they spend it. That makes them feel better. People are saved, but the cause of the problem remains. It's like treating an overpopulation of deer with food to support them. It will continue to spiral out of control.

I agree totally with DB about Online college courses and a testing center in every major city. That would be a good first step. Educate the people with the truth. Not the mindless fillers they try to zombize our kids with... but teach them to think... not memorize. Give everyone a shot at a college education without increasing taxes(by using the ADD'ers company profit).

Dissemination of information is one of the most important steps that mankind has ever taken. It all started with the guttenberg bible. Now we have the means to educate everyone... yet we don't. Education for the masses has made humans exponentially more productive. By productive, I mean the things we can accomplish as a whole. In contrast, it's a proven fact that (statistically) the more educated a couple are, the fewer children they have(thus decreasing global population and the need for more resources).

To sumarize I propose that we:
1. Form a non-profit organization to generate money.
2. Use that money to open more avenues for making more money.
3. Make enough money to lobby for(buy) laws that make sense.
4. Form a branch of the company for nothing other than educating those who wish an education.
5. Make sure the company is always innovating to ensure that competition is fierce.

Take over the world? Nope... just use brainpower to beat back ignorance, and ensure the destiny of the human race.:D

I'm sure everyone will pick apart this post and I'm ok with that. I just challenge everyone that does post to post something meaningfull. Please don't just call my ideas a political name... If you find something you object to... by all means, tear it apart. Just be sure to offer an option that you believe would easily replace what I'm proposing. Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post. Anywhoo:D

Hey!

You wouldn't lend me $5 would you?

... :-) ...

SB.

Great thing about borrowing money from ADDers ...
memory like sieves ... :-) ...
they'll have forgotten by tomorrow ...

A world full of ADDers.
A plan to get rich quick.
Opening the Windows and doors through to the Gates of perception of wealth.

Now - where'd I put that money?

Hey!

You wouldn't lend me $5 would you?

... :-) ...

SB.

Great thing about borrowing money from ADDers ...
memory like sieves ... :-) ...
they'll have forgotten by tomorrow ...

A world full of ADDers.
A plan to get rich quick.
Opening the Windows and doors through to the Gates of perception of wealth.

Now - where'd I put that money?heh... yes, I'm sure there are add'ers that would forget and lose track.... But I wasn't talking of hiring exclusively adders. Just forming the company with the mission statement and making sure that I HAVE 100% CONTROL of the company... MUUUUUUHAHAHAHA:D

- More seriously -
Saving the world is what this is all about.
~noting~
...that our continued existence predicates on the world being saved.

... ... ... the comment on {understanding mind} on the thread, from whence we came, in 'General ADD' ... ... ...
ADDF thread:: (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32813)Scilly Illuminati
... was kinda meant ... {fleshing the idea out} ... {just a little .. :-) ...} ... to initiate a train of events which'd show that man was absolutely a consequence of the environment - and that without a super-being to swoop in - our continued existence is in our own hands.

To re-state - the idea is simply that comprehension of {architecture, behaviour, development, functionality of} mind at a deep level is all that is required for man to accept responsibility for him and herself.

And a neat side-effect of this one basic deeper understanding - is that we reveal the aspects of life which we find rewarding.
The beautiful irony of our condition being considered a disorder of central reward neural networks ... ... ...

The beautiful irony - because the yearning from feelings of dissatisfaction place us on a very special level - the metalevel above normal life - from which the question - 'what do I need?' may be answered.
...........................{All~I~need++}++
~not~
...........................{{All I need}+$+}+$+

... and so consequently - my more serious answer to your question would be ->->->-
~achieve a uniform understanding of mind {globally} {context-populations}
~achieve a uniform understanding on how we may maximize happiness and minimise unhappiness
... I feel therefore I am - is the best we can do ...
~define all we need
~And then just step back and 'enjoy'

The new path for Homo neosapiens will becme apparent following following the steps above - taking that path, will ~I feel~ lead to a new society in which we sink back into synergy with our planet - after all ...

... we're on a rock in the middle of nowhere ... ~you see~
... and about all that's going for us ... ~is that~
........ ............ ... ... it's a pretty rock ... ... ...

SB.

... don't think though of this as a utopian world, free from change,
It'll never end.
There'll always be change.

You see ... ... ...

'we're billion year old stardust'
'and we gotta' get our selves back to the garden'

But it ain't happening any time soon ... ... ...

Evolution is a Universal truth which arises from the most fundamental level of physics (and mathematics) - and which generalizes
through
and
past
->->->-life->->->-
up to
and
into
->->->-the emergence of cosmological phenomena.

It's really blindingly obvious.

Everything is about E=mc'' ...is about pushing the E back into m... after Dr Seuss let the cat out of the bag, no ~fog~, no ~hat~ ... eh? ... 'little cat Z' ... ... ...

...<<< boom>>>

Mornin' Foghat {she says on a morning when she is once again playing the Med Tweaking Game and has not yet had coffee--Dave will fall face-flat in his cornflakes!}...it really is happening and we don't need to kill a lotta trees to do it.

Its very simple, really, ya see--we're breeding :D and we have big mouths, at least some of us do. I know I do, and the Kid is sorta a Mini-Me.

Change is constant. That used to be my sigline until my Easter Basket overfloweth. Sure, its coming slower than the ADD brain would prefer? But every time we post the truth, every time we stand up and say "Nooooooooo, I do not do it that way, I do it "THE ADD WAY" and some NT goes "WTF?? :confused:", every time my Kid pours forth something prosaic out of seemingly thin air and thanks her Guys and her genetics for the talent...something changes.

The wheel of change grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly fine ;), and we are always gonna need our Freindly Neighborhood NTs to skin the bears anyway. We will be off planning the next hunt, but we still gotta eat, ya know?

...something changes...the sentiment contained within those two words
{is all that is required}

...really...
{is *all* that is required}

sb.

Understand what? changes - and why? and
{that is **all** that is required}

I love you all!

OMG I SO want in on this operation! I'm cute and personable, I can make alot of money really fast! [/donates 10$] Hey look, now we have 15$!

... we love you too ...
but please ...
... put your money away ...

you're not going to be needing it,
not going to be needing it, not where we're going ... :-) ...

$b @|)

... :-) ...

... we love you too ...
but please ...
... put your money away ...

you're not going to be needing it,
not going to be needing it, not where we're going ... :-) ...

$b @|)

... :-) ...
I agree with Foghat if I am understanding correctly. We can sum it up to "Educate the public so they know" The more you know the more you can do with the stuff that you know and the more that you do with the stuff you know the better the world will be! So we take short term problems, fix them up one by one and move onto the big ones one at a time? I think I lost myself on the way :faint:

To where ever we are going:)

I agree with Foghat if I am understanding correctly. We can sum it up to "Educate the public so they know" The more you know the more you can do with the stuff that you know and the more that you do with the stuff you know the better the world will be! So we take short term problems, fix them up one by one and move onto the big ones one at a time? I think I lost myself on the way :faint:

To where ever we are going:)WooT!!:D Finally someone understands!! (Because you surely couldn't understand and not agree!:p) If we could put our creative minds to use to make money...(which compounds continually) We could change the "Norm". We use that money to start an online college that would be free. Spread knowledge across the continent/world. Educated masses equal more intelligent/caring global/local decisions. Better decisions=better government and a better(read longer lasting and happy) world altogether. (I will never be convinced that "ignorance is bliss")

The problem with the ADD mind... is that we not only think outside of the box... we think WAY outta the box sometimes. The only problem with that is that the universe is a big place... and Way outside the box has many directions... which can create lots and lots of space between what is meant and what is percieved(and perception is 9/10's of RRReality [or is it rrreality?:confused:])

Next, you'll be wanting me to explain how the company would get it's start;).

Anywhoo.... :D

Donations Donations Donations!

I understand what you mean! but don't you think that we should charge a bit for the coledge because the world does not pay for itself you know....We could use the funds from the coledge to build or comanpy and build the stuff we need! We could have an office building that is SHINNY! with black marble tables and everything! We need fundings so the colledge is a good idea but I think we should charge fo rit and tell them it is being donated to an AD(H)D fund and that it will be put to good use. But we need to open it up. I think we should charge according to the social class one is in. Like rich people pay more, poorer people pass less, so it is fair to all.

But...but...I dowanna be responsible for paperwork and alla that happycrappy http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/kzrainbow/gagme.gif.

I stand by what I said and what SB said. No funds required!

Fullmetal: I'm not looking for donations. It was more of an idea of a sort. Some things in life should be free. Among these, education.

A greater man than myself said:

"I do nothing but go about persuading you all, old and young alike, not to take thought for your persons or your properties, but and chiefly to care about the greatest improvement of the soul. I tell you that virtue is not given by money, but that from virtue comes money and every other good of man, public as well as private. This is my teaching, and if this is the doctrine which corrupts the youth, I am a mischievous person."

And is attributed with saying:

"-An education obtained with money is worse than no education at all."

There are already colleges that offer degree programs online. An Ivy league college has just offered free online auditing courses to be available to the public for a limited time. They won't get you the sheepskin but you will be able to sample the Ivy league experience.

The reason for me even coming up with the idea of a company to make money was to fund a TRUE INFORMATION AGE. One where money doesn't buy a degree... but where anyone regardless of their background or social status has the same chance in life.

No blanket statement is always true, but for the majority of people, they begin life in the same social class as the one they will end in. I would never advocate any type of redistrobution of wealth, but education should be distributed as FREELY as possible, and by any means available.

Do I ever think this idea will work as I state it?:( No! I just think that there are more people out there that think the way I do(if not exactly;)). I believe that there are many people out there with the same idea... and someday... someone will do something about it. Heh... I come up with the idea... you just have to make it your lifes work.:D

BTW... that was Socrates:D

Anywhoo

But...but...I dowanna be responsible for paperwork and alla that happycrappy http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/kzrainbow/gagme.gif.

I stand by what I said and what SB said. No funds required!
Exactly what part was happy crappy... and why?

And what exactly did SB say that you agree with? Could you sum it up for me please?:D

Fullmetal: I'm not looking for donations. It was more of an idea of a sort. Some things in life should be free. Among these, education.

A greater man than myself said:

"I do nothing but go about persuading you all, old and young alike, not to take thought for your persons or your properties, but and chiefly to care about the greatest improvement of the soul. I tell you that virtue is not given by money, but that from virtue comes money and every other good of man, public as well as private. This is my teaching, and if this is the doctrine which corrupts the youth, I am a mischievous person."

And is attributed with saying:

"-An education obtained with money is worse than no education at all."

There are already colleges that offer degree programs online. An Ivy league college has just offered free online auditing courses to be available to the public for a limited time. They won't get you the sheepskin but you will be able to sample the Ivy league experience.

The reason for me even coming up with the idea of a company to make money was to fund a TRUE INFORMATION AGE. One where money doesn't buy a degree... but where anyone regardless of their background or social status has the same chance in life.

No blanket statement is always true, but for the majority of people, they begin life in the same social class as the one they will end in. I would never advocate any type of redistrobution of wealth, but education should be distributed as FREELY as possible, and by any means available.

Do I ever think this idea will work as I state it?:( No! I just think that there are more people out there that think the way I do(if not exactly;)). I believe that there are many people out there with the same idea... and someday... someone will do something about it. Heh... I come up with the idea... you just have to make it your lifes work.:D

BTW... that was Socrates:D

Anywhoo
It just does not seem realistic. I do not believe that this company will have a free ride because nothing and no one is for free. You can only get people to do what you want them to do if you pay them so we have to get SOME kind of funding other wise we can not run ourselves the way we will hope too.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=339854&postcount=6

Says it all Foghat. ;)

special Fx2
I guess it could be called error propagation.
The point being that ... understand mind ->- understand our fundamental drives ->- happiness falls out of an understanding of those fundamental drives ->- maximize happiness ->- {{{nowhere is the $ visible in this scenario (though)}}} ->- without fleshing out each stage in this argument ... the answer may be vizualized - simply ... ... ... by answering the question of whether money can exist without 'have nots' ... ... ... if financial systems require some to have ... and the rest to have not ->- then we're in for ~trouble~ ... ... ...
->- but if that argument appears a little soft, idealistic and tree-huggingly twee - perhaps if we could show that material gain was not directly or even indirectly contributing to the satisfaction of those drives (the very drives which lead to happiness) - surely that'd be enough ... {surely} ... {...:-)...} ... :-) ... and that we're only behaving in that way - because it's the expression of lower organismic tendencies ... ho lordy! ... when the rich and the famous attending their charity HIV extravaganza find out ... rich person 1 and rich person 2 - attempting to outrun one another to be caught in a photoshoot with the AIDs infant who's about to die ...
- madness -
... when the rich and the famous attending their charity HIV extravaganza find out ... one can only assume that they will be outta' their tiny tree ... :-) ... poor little lesser thicka5$ rich person ... come home with me - I've a gilded cage just for you ... ... ... and your destiny is to be trapped therein - within until without.

sb.

It just does not seem realistic. I do not believe that this company will have a free ride because nothing and no one is for free. You can only get people to do what you want them to do if you pay them so we have to get SOME kind of funding other wise we can not run ourselves the way we will hope too.Eh... The company would be an entity. There would be no us nor ourselves. It would be a means to an end. The company (IT) would make money. IT would then fund FREE EDUCATION beyond primary. IT would be a tool to shape the future of mankind. IT would fund think tanks and research. IT's main purpose would be to finance the education of mankind so THEY(we) stop making the same mistakes over and over again.

There is NO proof that an educated man/woman would make the RIGHT decisions in most situations... but I have faith in knowledge to tip the scales. I understand that knowledge, while much easier to obtain is not as reliable as wisdom... But, we humans are a short lived race... which makes us focus more on material needs/WANTS.

SB... You'd make one hell of a medicine man:rolleyes:. Speak English man. I know what you are saying... but you sure make it hard to argue.:D Let the future flow like the river and enjoy the sounds of the bubbling brook. Man will eventually evolve again... and again... and again... or BOOM- The END

- if it goes boom.... (who really cares)
- cause life will have gone... and will come again [or not] {as the case may be}
- why worry your little {tiny brain} [as neosapians will have a grasp on everything much better than ;-)) you '-) or I

.........;-)) money for nothing and checks for free... we we are all a product of our environment and our environment (may have) possibly [might have] screwed up... the rrreality of it is that existence won't be around in either case::::-))) at least for us.
+$+$ does nothing except make for more +++++
Which makes for ((((((( because the grasp always excedes our/your grip and +++ is never enough.
<b>o
---silly--- you will never make enough $+$ to be happy
so why spend your time... (which is finite) chasing that which (most likely) is not?
-money = preocupation... happiness is relative.
-choose to be happy... and life will be{or death[as both can be happy]} carefree.
-take what comes... .... you can't stop it. Everything is inevitable in this river. Everything you take for granted is limited... and will soon fail.

It's too late... but "So Long and Thanks for all the FISH!! ;;;;-)))

Oh... and lovely avatar Crazy!! :D <"bows"><bows>
</bows></b>

... funnily enough ... I agree in all things bar the $illy $tuff ... ... ...
with happiness as goal ... only one impediment exists ...
the not so humble -$-
... the very embodiment of everything which we must shed.

Understand evolution and understand that which drives 'us' forwards.
As long as 'us' is society - society must travel forwards as one.
Money divides - and there's no intrinsic value in it - it's just a surrogate for the other thing - which {at least previously} - we could not locate - but which {now} - we understand.

*It* (the other thing) provides us with a mechanism for defining what is important - in *all* domains of endeavour.
The goal has never been to make money - though has only ever been to make money.
At least until now.
That drive has run its course - and the fine ideals which you express in your post - become our drive
- except -
... without the involvement of money.

Even today ... another comp. sci. guy - came at me with a 'too complicated' 'subsistence farming' 'thought' and 'beauty' ... ... ... argument ... it's running rampant through my community of sci guys ... and good for the sci-fly guys ... I say ...

Yes - I agree {though} only in the sections which involve money - if they're tempered with the earnest desire to dismante the anachronism.
Of course - it won't happen tomorrow - but maybe the day after ... ... ...
and perhaps sooner ...

We've a mind to think - and so place ourselves in the peculiar position of having the capacity to shape our environment - and hence evolution - though - of course - where we'll end up - is not our call - that's a little and will always be - well beyond our means ....

...so... 'yes' ... I think ... :-) ... to which bit - your call ...
I sense that you have my corner down - and so think you well suited to make that call ...
:-) .... cool!

sb.

SB... It's always good to find like minds:D. I think we share the same Ideal in most cases...

BUT- I believe Capitalism is the fastest way to reach our technological future. Think about it. If everyone were content farming, then everyone would be a farmer... and nobody would be a blacksmith. This would be hard for any kind of innovation to pop up.

Capitalism has it's flaws. Of those... Greed, Politicians, and competition. It would be nice to say that all men/women are created equal... but that wouldn't be the truth. The fact is, humans are animals. We are in competition with each other to make sure our offspring are the ones that "inherit" the earth. It isn't consciousness that drives us... it's genetics. Inherent in this idea is survival of the species.

Fast forward 20 years... A commet the size of Rhode Island is 23 days from impact with earth. The US(or any country) deploys a scramjet missile loaded with a solar sail. blah blah blah... the missile "lands" on the comet... and nudges it in the right direction.

I truly doubt that innovation will happen fast enough to deal with the coming calamities even with a capitalistic base. But there is always the possibility... If you take the competetiveness out of the picture... you remove all chances for mankind to succeed, or to last. It is the nature of ALL LIFE to compete. Why should we change things so we can be PC?

If you are happy with what you have... I envy you :).
I just say... don't try to "compete" by belittling others. Any opinion is just. Add all of the criticism you would like... but please make it constructive.:p

The idea of this post was to get constructive criticism as to how we "ADD'ers could "Change the World"... as a posetive thing. If you think we should start a commune where everyone shares resources... that's fine with me. I just wanted to do the same with education. Make it FREE. Imagine a world in which every child had the same chance at education, regardless of race, nationality, religion, or creed. Would that be a bad thing?

Say your parents were functioning addicts that barely knew you were alive... They didn't instill in you the virtues that would help you get good grades or high act/sat scores. They didn't make enough money to/nor would they care to... send you to college. You get married young... and without someone to tell you how stupid you are, you realize that you aren't stupid. But you now have 3 kids a stack of bills and a meth addicted wife. Should you divorce and persue an education that costs 80k$ so you can get custody of your children from your spouse that will surely cause emotional, if not physical damage? In a womans world(children) it's hard for a man to compete. That's kind of hard to do when you make $10per hour.

You can call it stupid if you want... but I think it's uninformed at the most. People are "partially" a product of their environment. I've known some VERY intelligent people that couldn't pay for college. I call that a waste. Not just a waste for the person... but a waste for humanity. There are so many people out there that are more qualified for the position mentally than their bosses... problem is... education.

You can't blame lack of education on early twenty somethings... hell... they don't even know if they are smart at that age. They just keep remembering what their parents told them... that is their self image. Once they decide that they were "Stupid for Listening to their Parents"... It's too late. I know my mother never cared if I went to college or not. At the time... she made too much money for me to go to college... but of course she didn't want to help. BAhh...




I'm sure I could write all day long and never convince some. But the idea is to inspire. I understand not everyone is from the US and not everyone likes the US, but I think the WORLD would benefit from free education... and not just from knowledge. I'm talking about a true to life "sheepskin" that any employer would take.

Hope this makes it a little clearer.

Anywhoo:D

The world has never seen true capitalism or even true socialism. Greed and the police powers of the state enabled those, to whom we entrusted the responsibilty of maintaining some semblance of order, to steal from the collective and hoard for themselves. The responsibility for war, disease, and the deaths of many can be placed squarely on those "leaders". The capacity to look at another human being and find a difference and use that difference to divide is a product on unchecked power. The desposts of the world and their equivalent govts. have always conquered by dividing. Its somehow easier to hurt, maime, and steal from someone if you somehow dehumanize them or lower their value in the pecking order of nature. Some have mentioned that distribution of wealth is somehow a bad idea, well then how about the removal of all wealth and possesions. Anarchy?? Yes maybe, but then who would be the ones causing the violence and chaos?? Only those who have lost their economic advantage over their fellow man. The supposed lower classes would no longer be disadvantaged and therfore have no need to commit any crime. Those who viewed their fellow man as somehow less than themselves would become as those they formerly condemned. Elimination of the need for money, the removal of any devices used to divide, namely personal possesions would soon force all to accept the facts that we are all one and that we are all connected to the social fabric of life. Each is dependent and part of the other. This is possible but not if we allow those who we entrust to manage to not have any police powers.

I may have more but its getting late here and i am very busy.

The world has never seen true capitalism or even true socialism. Greed and the police powers of the state enabled those, to whom we entrusted the responsibilty of maintaining some semblance of order, to steal from the collective and hoard for themselves. The responsibility for war, disease, and the deaths of many can be placed squarely on those "leaders". The capacity to look at another human being and find a difference and use that difference to divide is a product on unchecked power. The desposts of the world and their equivalent govts. have always conquered by dividing. Its somehow easier to hurt, maime, and steal from someone if you somehow dehumanize them or lower their value in the pecking order of nature. Some have mentioned that distribution of wealth is somehow a bad idea, well then how about the removal of all wealth and possesions. Anarchy?? Yes maybe, but then who would be the ones causing the violence and chaos?? Only those who have lost their economic advantage over their fellow man. The supposed lower classes would no longer be disadvantaged and therfore have no need to commit any crime. Those who viewed their fellow man as somehow less than themselves would become as those they formerly condemned. Elimination of the need for money, the removal of any devices used to divide, namely personal possesions would soon force all to accept the facts that we are all one and that we are all connected to the social fabric of life. Each is dependent and part of the other. This is possible but not if we allow those who we entrust to manage to not have any police powers.

I may have more but its getting late here and i am very busy.Wow! That's a very nice post... but it seems to stray from the original topic(although I think I was led astray myself).

ADD'ers Save the World- was ment to be a discussion on how WE(heh.. if I'm dxed as such) could change the world... and more to the point, how FREE ONLINE EDUCATION would change the current social norm.

The points you made are all valid in that they are true today(to some extent). The points that you don't cover concern me more though. How much would our government officials get away with if the general public were taught more "Critical Thinking" instead of "learning by rote". What if we knew that there would always be more to learn... and it was always within reach?

I'm sorry... but the redistrobution of wealth is a terrible idea... and I have no wealth! What we need to be discussing is a distrobution of education... and if you have an eye for statistics... it ends up to be pretty much the same thing.

No... I'm not saying an IVY LEAGUE education garantees you more money... but more opportunity... If you decide not to take it... that's on you. What I am saying... is open up education opportunities to the masses. With the advent of the internet and broadband capabilities... there isn't a region of the world that couldn't/wouldn't benifit. And an Intelligent society makes more intelligent choices. (any arguements there?)

If a college like the "University of Phoenix Online" can "PROFIT" off of such a program... then it seems to me that the government could pay for a "Federal University", cheaper than it could offer grants to the poor. That way those caught in the middle class "flux" could enter as well.

Middle Class flux is when someone is raised in the middle class, but at age 18 is cast out on his/her own. Parent's make too much for grants... but pay nothing for college. Some often promise an education and then yank it from beneath their children.

I was pretty much kicked out 2 days after graduation. I recieved not another dime from either of my parents. I tried 3 semesters in college but ended up flunking out because of bills/skipping class to work. At one point before the last semester I had a 3.7gpa... Keep in mind that I didn't know that I (might-undiagnosed still) have ADD.

All I'm saying is EDUCATE THE WORLD. The people that know what they do... learned from their predecessors... Someone probably charged them money... but that doesn't mean they should continue to do so to those who follow.

I Challenge anyone to prove or even argue that free education would be harmfull to society. Professors would probably even benifit. It would free up more private teaching positions... as FREE EDUCATION would of course not change the privilage that the rich enjoy... It would just up the bar for normal every day citizens.

Anywhoo... :D

Do you believe that the general subject of morality is important to this discussion?
Who is 'you'?
What is 'morality'?
Which 'discussion'?

As always - your call ... ... ... :-)

sb.

ps ... there's always a point ...

... and whilst we're here ... what would you like to educate people on? ... :-) ...

Ahh... Well someones the devil and anothers the addvocate... and then you have the devil's advocate... and the advocate's advocate. Hmm...

We all live on the same "pretty rock" in the middle of nowhere.... we tiny ants crawl the earth with our pittiful struggles to gain... get... own... and be happy. We all conform to a sort of morality but we often mistake the morality of others for our own.

The have's and have-nots are happily toiling away their lives... except for the haves who have too much... too easily... so they require struggle... so they must create some sort of struggle/drama... so even tho they have... they still don't have what they wish for... which is? (love, acceptance, more money, power, fame). [most have-nots feel that being a have would complete them... until they become a have and then they want to become a "Have-more".]
The "Has-some's" have it bad... as they are viewed by the have-nots as haves... and they are viewed as the Haves as have-nots. They of course want to be haves so they show nothing but disdain for the have-nots while they pretend and strive to be haves. They spend money to attain toys that the haves have, which would better be invested so as to become haves... but alas they must appear better than the Have-nots so spend they do.
The Have-nots have less time and less money than the haves... but they aren't happy either. ... because the Has some's and Have's have much more than they do... and they see the barriers to getting what the Haves have... and they feel downtrodden because it's always the haves that make the rules. The haves hold the key to the have-nots getting what the haves have... so it makes sense to be against the haves and Has some's.

heh... it gets kind of confusing... but the morality of it all is that there is no morality.. It's all self imposed.

As to education... If there is a university course on the subject... It should be free. If there isn't... there should be... and it should be free as well. Knowledge can be explained the same way money can be. Those that want it should be able to get it though. I just think Ideas and knowledge should be freely exchanged... If you HAVE the knowledge... it should be recognized and allow (yes I'm going to say it:D) competition with those who can and do afford a university education.

Survival of the fittest has gotten us this far... which isn't very... if you ask me... but you didn't:eyebrow:. If knowledge and education was free... then it would allow natural selection to work once more. Although... as it stands now... almost everyone breeds... whether they pass the test or not:faint:.

Bahh... my head hurts now.... and it's past my bedtime....