I'm 23 and I have suspected having ADD primarily inattentive type for a couple years now. My previous attempts at solving the problem only involved a short and rather unpleasent experience on concerta. Needless to say, I didn't do the research nor was I seeing a regular doctor or psychiatrist while taking the medication. Now that I have entered graduate school and I notice the persistence and raised level of my symptoms, I decided to nip the problem in the bud and get help from the school's counseling center. However, I was weary of going in claiming to suspect myself of having ADD, seeing that it is a large university campus and they would probably be incredulous to such suspicions, as they probably get kids in there trying to score the medication. So I simply went in and laid out all my problems... my procrastination... my inability to focus... my anxiety... my history of underachievement at school... my fidgeting behavior... my inability to finish a book, a movie, or learn a whole song on the guitar. I figured that the symptoms would pretty clearly point to ADD.

Apparently I was too subtle, as the counseler merely levied at me all the charges I've been hearing my entire life. That I'm "a perfectionist". That I need to "buckle down" and stick to a schedule (oh lord, have I tried doing that! That schedule gets ignored within a month), that I need to accept that work is hard (duh. For me, everything is hard), that I need to merely think about what is making me anxious (I don't know what's making me anxious. It kinda happens all at once) and then I'll understand. The guy just wanted to chat. I wanted some help. Not nescessarily meds, but at least help that didn't involve me lowering my own standards or simply accepting these behaviors that I believe are hindering my social and intellectual development. Where do they find these guys? Was I expecting too much? Looking back, I probably should have been straightforward from the get go, but wouldn't problems with concentration and organization raise a red flag?

I notice that a lot of people on here are professionals who were diagnosed in middle age. Did your previous success make people so incredulous to your plight? I'm really scratching my head here.

All is well though. I called a psychiatrist, asked to be tested for ADD, and I have an appointment next week.

Did you talk to you school's dept for learning and physical disabilities? ADD was handled at by them at my school. The counseling dept was for things like stress, depression, and other things better dealt with in therapy.

The counciler is probably a psychologist. He will probably want to talk with you a number of times before referring you to testing.

I think that he is being wise in rulin gout other factor before going with a decision for adhd. If you think you have adhd, you should have told him right on the spot.
He would probbly then send you out to read more on the matter and then ask you a lot of questions.

ME :D

I posted rather hastily, in the heat of the moment. I should have been frank about my suspicions, granted. My problem with the counseler was that he was rather sumg and glib about my problems, acting as if I have either: a fear of success, or that I'm simply acting out learned habits that I don't want to change. He also acted like I did not realize that worthy things take hard work. This all was ancillary to his lack of insight, which was unfair to expect. I called them again and was frank about both my personal dislike of the counseler and my suspicions about my own condition.
Fear of success was often ascribed to me, but it's one thing I don't think makes any sense at all. I don't fear success. I want success. I happen also to know that I have impediments to doing things that I love. Anyone else have experience with this one?

I posted rather hastily, in the heat of the moment. I should have been frank about my suspicions, granted. My problem with the counseler was that he was rather sumg and glib about my problems, acting as if I have either: a fear of success, or that I'm simply acting out learned habits that I don't want to change. He also acted like I did not realize that worthy things take hard work. This all was ancillary to his lack of insight, which was unfair to expect. I called them again and was frank about both my personal dislike of the counseler and my suspicions about my own condition.
Fear of success was often ascribed to me, but it's one thing I don't think makes any sense at all. I don't fear success. I want success. I happen also to know that I have impediments to doing things that I love. Anyone else have experience with this one?
Oh yeah, absolutely and to tell you the truth, its part of whats driven me to succeed in my profession (psychotherapy). A therapeutic relationship is just that: a relationship that is supposed to be conducive to progress. My first suggestion would have been to go have the necessary tests administered so that you not only have a definitive answer for yourself, you also have the quantifiable information to support your own advocacy. If when you meet with a professional (psychologist, counselor, etc.) and you feel immediately defensive, the progess of the work you do together will be impeded. If the professional appears not to take what you say seriously or simply, isn't listening to what you say, then you have every right to confront the situation and address the potential roadblocks to your own success. If you can request a change of professional, by all means do so now, before you begin a therapeutic process that may prove unproductive. In some instances, your choices are limited and you may not necessarily have the luxury of changing who you work with. Despite this, you DO have the insight and intelligence to make your therapeutic needs known and you will have the information to defend your right to have the best possible environment to work towards your goals. Please keep us posted in regards to this situation, i'm interested in knowing the outcome. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for chiming in here, Buffalo! I am heartened (Is that a word? Opposite of "disheartened") to hear such a supportive response from another in the profession.

LarryJohn - boy, can I empathize! Eventually I have somewhat gotten my ADHD needs addressed, but it took a full year of making a fulltime job out of it. Good luck, brother.

Sue

I had the same unfortunate misunderstanding with a counsellor. I don't mean to degrade counselling in any way (I have friends in the profession and admire their work) but their job is exactly that, to counsel, and unfortunately they don't always get it right. I hope you have better luck with a psychiatrist, who should at least attempt to address your concerns rather than merely dismissing their validity.

buffalo --

Thanks for the response. It's nice to see a psychotherapist on the board. What puzzled me most about the experience was that his goal seemed to be to undermine my immediate concerns, as though looking for some "hidden" reason why I'm "really" acting in particular ways. His accusations were not unfamiliar to me, but I cannot imagine any situation in which having pointed out to you that you don't really know what's the matter with you would be helpful. Is there a particular approach this would fall into? This guy was merely an M.A. doing his practicum, so I'm guessing he was blindly groping for an approach he read about somewhere.

The guy also lacked any sort of what one would call "bedside manner". He took no notes, seemed to pay very little attention to me (literally, I had to remind him when I referred to things I had previously talked about), and would mutter things to himself after I made comments. Case in point: After he said I was a perfectionist, I explained that at points when I had difficulty finishing projects, it wasn't because I expected them to be "perfect" in any way, rather I just underestimated the work that was needed and required more time to finish them. I said that, "when people ask me why won't I finish (meaning, hand in the assignment), I just have to tell them that I'm not done! (meaning, I have more work to do)." After I said this, he mutters to himself "that's some circular reasoning"

First of all, it was not circular reasoning, just a imprecise choice of words. Secondly, even if it was, I hardly see what would be accomplished by mocking the reasoning of the patient under one's own breath. If he did not understand what I was saying, then he should have requested clarification.

The bad thing about counseling in this country is that people think that doing well in psychology classes translates into skill at counseling. Saddly for the poor patients involved, this isn't always the case.

People with ADHD usually don't need counselling for their ADHD; they just need the correct diagnosis and treatment.

People with ADHD usually don't need counselling for their ADHD; they just need the correct diagnosis and treatment.
I must politely disagree. Counseling is often very helpful for ADHD once the proper diagnosis has been made. This is mentioned in the majority of books out there.

Counseling is often very helpful for ADHD once the proper diagnosis has been made. This is mentioned in the majority of books out there.Please share. I guess the books I have are out of date and I would like to keep current.

Of the ones I have at home, it's mentioned by Solden, Hallowell, Kelly and Ramundo, and Quinn. Each author having multiple books, but it is not dwelt upon in great length. The thing is getting counseling for ADHD and it's related issues, not being told that "It's not really ADD"

In fact Sari Solden, author of Women with Attention Deficit Disorder is a licsenced counseler. Oh and Terry Matlen mentions it too I think, but you know how it is trusting ADDer's memory's.

Of the ones I have at home, it's mentioned by Solden, Hallowell, Kelly and Ramundo, and Quinn. Each author having multiple books, but it is not dwelt upon in great length. The thing is getting counseling for ADHD and it's related issues, not being told that "It's not really ADD"

If we use the word counselling to refer to therapy, is it possible that having ADHD is something therapy can fix? Comorbid conditions which tag along with ADHD are not exclusive to ADHD and not every person with ADHD develops comorbid conditions which might respond to counselling or therapy. Many people spend countless hours and dollars only to "fail" therapy; the fortunate ones discover why.

From page 304 of You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid Or Crazy?! by Kelly and Ramundo:

About Crutches, Ladders and Assumptions
An ADD adult who seeks help can be a paradox to mental health professionals. She doesn't fit into either of the two main categories of mental health care. In one category are professionals who deal with the chronic disabilities of the severely mentally ill. They assume that a cure won't be forthcoming. In the other category are those who work with the less severe mental and emotional health issues of patients who can be cured of their bothersome symptoms. It is expected that these patients will eventually graduate from therapy, prepared to function as whole and independent human beings.

By virtue of the chronic nature of her symptoms, the ADD woman fits in the first category. But she doesn't need treatment for a severe mental illness because she isn't severely mentally ill! By virtue of the degree of her disabilities, she fits in the second category. But she will frustrate her therapist's efforts to cure her because she can't be cured! She is a very confusing patient. She's obviously mentally healthy but doesn't seem to make suffiecient progress toward graduation. The therapist may fall into the same trap as parents and teachers do, assuming that the ADDer is just difficult.

The thing is getting counseling for ADHD and it's related issues, not being told that "It's not really ADD"As in the troubling symptoms are not part of ADD?

If we use the word counselling to refer to therapy, is it possible that having ADHD is something therapy can fix? Comorbid conditions which tag along with ADHD are not exclusive to ADHD and not every person with ADHD develops comorbid conditions which might respond to counselling or therapy. Many people spend countless hours and dollars only to "fail" therapy; the fortunate ones discover why.


. . . But she will frustrate her therapist's efforts to cure her because she can't be cured! She is a very confusing patient. She's obviously mentally healthy but doesn't seem to make suffiecient progress toward graduation. The therapist may fall into the same trap as parents and teachers do, assuming that the ADDer is just difficult.


I have been in and out of therapy for 30 years. I know I frustrate therapists, although I have also learned a great deal about myself. I have truly spent countless hours and dollars only to "fail" therapy.

I have enjoued group counselling (much like being a member of a forum), and I have done some group meditation and learned relaxation and deep breathing which are very useful skills.

I stumbled into this forum because I work with boys who are ADHD. I had no idea my anxiety, absent-mindness, disorganization, problems with family etc, etc, were all symptoms of the same thing. What a revelation. I am trying to get an appt with Psychiatrist, but my depression has lifted very much just knowing that I finally have a diagnosis and I'm not lazy or stupid.

Thanks for the info from the book, I will go in search of a copy. Thanks! :cool:

If we use the word counselling to refer to therapy, is it possible that having ADHD is something therapy can fix? Comorbid conditions which tag along with ADHD are not exclusive to ADHD and not every person with ADHD develops comorbid conditions which might respond to counselling or therapy. Many people spend countless hours and dollars only to "fail" therapy; the fortunate ones discover why.

From page 304 of You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid Or Crazy?! by Kelly and Ramundo:
Whether treatment is therapy or medicine, it offers the rungs we can climb to better lives.

From page 306 of You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid Or Crazy?! by Kelly and Ramundo

And in the works of Hallowell and Solden, a multi pronged approach to treatment is recommended in which life style changes, medication and some sort of support or counseling are combined. The goal of therapy in ADHD is to teach the ADDer how to accept that they will never be normal and techniques and stucture of how to handle the symptoms of ADD. Traditional psychotherapy (based on the Freudian model of feeling, motivation, behavior) does not apply well to ADD as as there is no connection, psychologically speaking, between our feelings and behavior.

I do not advocate trying to be cured of ADD. I wouldn't want to be; it is too much of a boon on my life. But I profitted greatly from therapy with the right therapist. He helped me learn to deal with the same problems that LarryJohn listed at the start of this thread, fear of failure and success, not finishing papers, paralysis of will regarding school, etc. Oh and learning to correctly interpret things like speech and non-verbal communication that is so often misinterrpreted with ADD.

People with ADHD usually don't need counselling for their ADHD; they just need the correct diagnosis and treatment.
With all due respect, counseling is a method of treatment. The question is, do people who have ADD/ADHD require treatment? I can only answer from the context of my training and my experience as an individual with ADHD. My answer as a professional is that ADD/ADHD is not a disease, it is a way of functioning that is not necessarily that of the majority. People don't come to see me and say "Hey, I just thought i'd come for therapy, everything is great.". While i'm exaggerating a bit, the fact remains that people don't seek therapy/counseling unless they are mandated, encouraged by another professional or a partner/spouse or they are experiencing problems and they believe that therapy would help them in some way. That said, I, as a person with ADHD and as a therapist do not see ADD/ADHD as a disorder, nor do I see it as something requiring repair. When we experience what I refer to as "speedbumps"; roadblocks to our own personal success, we recognize that there is a problem, although we don't necessarily know at that moment what the problem is. If we are open to therapy/counseling, then it can help to discuss our situation, uncover patterns that we are repeating that are inhibiting our success, and together (and this is key) we can choose different paths to get past the speedbumps. That is the case for anyone who comes into therapy, regardless of diagnosis. So, no, I would never try to fix ADD/ADHD. In my opinion, it isn't a state of "broken". It is, in many cases, a source of strength, a myriad of wonderful resources that simply need to be recognized by the individual in order for them to summon them to the forefront. Therapy indeed can help an individual realize their strengths, and utilize them to break maladaptive patterns, but "fixing" a way an individual simply functions is counter to the purpose of therapy.

That is the case for anyone who comes into therapy, regardless of diagnosis. So, no, I would never try to fix ADD/ADHD. In my opinion, it isn't a state of "broken". It is, in many cases, a source of strength, a myriad of wonderful resources that simply need to be recognized by the individual in order for them to summon them to the forefront. Therapy indeed can help an individual realize their strengths, and utilize them to break maladaptive patterns, but "fixing" a way an individual simply functions is counter to the purpose of therapy.Now you're talking. :cool:

Thanks for the response. It's nice to see a psychotherapist on the board. What puzzled me most about the experience was that his goal seemed to be to undermine my immediate concerns, as though looking for some "hidden" reason why I'm "really" acting in particular ways. His accusations were not unfamiliar to me, but I cannot imagine any situation in which having pointed out to you that you don't really know what's the matter with you would be helpful. Is there a particular approach this would fall into? This guy was merely an M.A. doing his practicum, so I'm guessing he was blindly groping for an approach he read about somewhere.

The guy also lacked any sort of what one would call "bedside manner". He took no notes, seemed to pay very little attention to me (literally, I had to remind him when I referred to things I had previously talked about), and would mutter things to himself after I made comments. Case in point: After he said I was a perfectionist, I explained that at points when I had difficulty finishing projects, it wasn't because I expected them to be "perfect" in any way, rather I just underestimated the work that was needed and required more time to finish them. I said that, "when people ask me why won't I finish (meaning, hand in the assignment), I just have to tell them that I'm not done! (meaning, I have more work to do)." After I said this, he mutters to himself "that's some circular reasoning"

First of all, it was not circular reasoning, just a imprecise choice of words. Secondly, even if it was, I hardly see what would be accomplished by mocking the reasoning of the patient under one's own breath. If he did not understand what I was saying, then he should have requested clarification.

The bad thing about counseling in this country is that people think that doing well in psychology classes translates into skill at counseling. Saddly for the poor patients involved, this isn't always the case.


LARRYJOHN -

THANK YOU FOR PUTTING IN WORDS what I have experienced TOO MANY times in "counseling" and/or other mental health services!! I have been seeing my "therapist" once a week for OVER A YEAR now (must be because I'm on STATE health insurance that I "need to go so often"). What a bunch of CRAP!! Why do I continue?? Because - in order to receive a prescription for my meds, I NEED TO BE IN COUNSELING at this agency.


While the whole therapy-thing is totally annoying, this has really been the FIRST place where I found a psychiatrist or MD who was WILLING to prescribe an ADHD stimulant to me. ??? FOR REAL!!!! Thank goodness my "therapy" and other appts are FREE - but I feel as if I am totally playing a GAME. If I say - "I don't really feel that any more counseling is useful to me right now" - they will say, "OK! And you DO KNOW that you will no longer be able to see our psychiatrist - right?" IS THAT MESSED UP, OR WHAT!!????


Sue<!-- / message -->

Sue, you have raised a valid question regarding the ethics of therapy. I spent several hours with my diagnosing psychiatrist and enjoyed how he could turn a negative into a positive for me. He told me that ADHD or not, I was still o.k. and did not feel I needed to see him or anyone else for counselling. When I broached the subject with my G.P., he frowned and told me he didn't feel it was necessary either.

I have also experienced different approaches from physiotherapists. It seems one requires a token three visits while another, more experienced therapist looked puzzled when I asked when I should see her again. Guess which one I went back to when I needed to?

the diagnosis section is an unlikely place but who said we had to act with in some preconceived social box! I do enjoy a good healthy discussion, with multiple thought provoking perspectives.

What puzzled me most about the experience was that his goal seemed to be to undermine my immediate concerns, as though looking for some "hidden" reason why I'm "really" acting in particular ways.

I think different areas of practice are directed at different areas of the human experience, I think maybe he was trying encourage insight because we often do fail to understand why we do some of the things we do. Perfection and unrealistic expectation of self are often reasons behind procrastination, even among ADDers.. I am in no way saying this is the case with you nor am I attempting to undermine your feelings about the experience. I am just offering a different perspective on the whole matter.

As unpleasant as the experience was the counselor managed to do one thing right; that was to encourage you toward the direction that was right for you. If one wants to pursue weather or not they have ADD then going to a professional experienced in ADD would be more beneficial than going to a counselor who may not have the expertise detect never mind address such.

Bottom line: I am glad you have an appointment with some one who can help you determine weather or not you have ADD. Please keep us posted on your progress.

btw- the mumbling thing would have been a deal-breaker for me toooo.
I mean if one is going to talk to themselves it is considered more appropriate when one is not seeing clients (IMHO) :rolleyes:



I must politely disagree. Counseling is often very helpful for ADHD once the proper diagnosis has been made. This is mentioned in the majority of books out there.

Let me begin by saying the willingness to disagree politely is appreciated by all. Okay what what I saying? :o oh yea. . . . . . . :p

Yes this is correct but please notice the order in which things must happen in order for counseling to be productive in ADD treatment. If the person isn’t properly diagnosis at the time the counseling will be of little use. According to empirical evidence the best approach is a combined approach with the core of ADD symptoms being address by pharmological means while the residual difficulties of behavior, self perceptions, relationship to others can be successfully approached by non-phaormlogical therapy’s such as counseling.

I am not familiar with Solden or Kelly but I do know Hallowell, Quinn and Peggy Ramundo and I believe they all say the same thing. That the ADD needs to be addressed first in order for counseling to be effective.


But lets go above personal opinions shall we?

True to my choice of self descriptive names, I would like to use a meta-analysis of studies on the effectiveness of ADD treatments as a source for the basis of my opinion.

aappublications pediatrics (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/115/6/e749)
***Source Quote
CONCLUSIONS
ADHD is a chronic condition that requires ongoing management and monitoring. A robust evidence base attests to the efficacy of stimulant medications in helping to manage the symptoms of ADHD among school-aged children. The stimulant drugs tested seemed equally effective. Tricyclic antidepressants may be effective also but are recommended only when children have been refractory to 2 or more stimulant drugs or have intolerable adverse effects. When considering evidence from RCTs, the data in support of behavioral intervention are less compelling. None of the nonpharmacologic interventions tested were more effective than medication in treating the symptoms of ADHD. Long-standing clinical experience dictates that education and counseling of the patient, family, and school personnel are valuable and necessary adjuncts to drug therapy, as with most long-term treatments for chronic conditions. ***End Quote


This is directed toward children with ADD however there is no reason to believe the results for adults would be much different. Not much use to counseling if one is too distracted to focus on the goals of the therapy longer than it takes to reach ones vehicle to leave the counselor’s parking lot.


My answer as a professional is that ADD/ADHD is not a disease, it is a way of functioning that is not necessarily that of the majority.

I agree with your opinion however that would need to be an entirely separate discussion for me as this perspective has been a journey in and of itself. Short version is I began with disorder model, progressed to easily defensive to my present location as one has learned through lots-o-challenges the art of civilized debating (which now is a hobby it it’s own right). Although I will admit I am always glad to see another with this same perspective.



So, no, I would never try to fix ADD/ADHD. In my opinion, it isn't a state of "broken". It is, in many cases, a source of strength, a myriad of wonderful resources that simply need to be recognized by the individual in order for them to summon them to the forefront. Therapy indeed can help an individual realize their strengths, and utilize them to break maladaptive patterns, but "fixing" a way an individual simply functions is counter to the purpose of therapy.

Yep I like you already. I think I am going to enjoy reading more of what you have to say. ;)