Hi to everyone- I am new face in the crowd and I could use some advice! I am in my mid 40's but going on 30 ( time has been kind) and have had two brushes with marriage both that ended due to the gentleman's feelings that I could not carry my weight (mostly financial) in the relationship. In both situations, neither seemed to value all the other things I brought to the relationship. They always felt I would be their first child! I really resented that since I am pretty self-sufficient. I can't count the number of men I have dated that would not even go out with me more than a few times because they felt I was not wife material. My question is this- I need to be with someone who is intellectually stimulating and intelligent ie my equal, yet those in my peer group reject me continually. Is this a life sentence and should I be prepared to go it alone for the rest of my days? Have any other women been in this bind? ( I am just ending a 4 year relationship with a dull-witted fellow who kept me alive due to chronic poverty during those years. It was too high a price to pay...) I am finding that I have to go through a series of Mr. Right for nows and that is emotionally draining... Any thoughts or suggestions?

zzzatwheel, you say,
"I am just ending a 4 year relationship with a dull-witted fellow who kept me alive due to chronic poverty during those years." Whose chronic poverty, yours or his?

The usual way to build a mutually satisfying relationship is to be the sort of individual you'd expect your partner to be. Do you feel you are happy with your life choices so far? The above statement doesn't suggest that you are.

Are you ADD? Any other features or facets of you that need attention? Are you asking forum members for an assessment? (Go ahead, someone.)

My suggestion would be that you first get to know what's up with you. You could then direct yourself in the direction the kind of groups where "intellectually stimulating and intelligent" people are active, and are learning and contributing.

Yeah, when I was in my thirties I looked like I was in my twenties. Now I look like I am in my sixties! Time has a way of evening the score. Don't count on senseless beauty and random acts of kindness from Mother Nature forever.

Relationship issues like those you are describing can be very adeptly handled in psychodrama.

look up the ASGPP - I think it is www.asgpp.com . Read there about psychodrama, and see if you can find a group near you if you are interested.

Jonathan

I guess I started in the middle. Yes, I am ADHD and just diagnosed in the last year. Holding a job is very difficult for me so I face chronic poverty. I of course endeavour to conduct myself in a manner congruent to those of my peers and have no difficulty engaging them. The issue arises when I cannot hold up my end of the financial obligations. I fail to see the psychodrama involved-what am I missing?

Psychodrama is a type of therapy

Here's a link to a thread about Psychodrama
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1363

Thanksf or clearing that up for me Tara!
I have always thought psychodrama to have another quite unflattering meaning. I have never encountered this type of therapy and will investigate.

More info on my initial post. My partner was non-Add, not willing or capable of understanding my limitations and held me accountable for trivial things. We could not have a deep discussion on much of anything. I lost my job at the begining of the relationship and my economic status left me trapped to continue it for longer than healthy for either of us.

By the way its www.asgpp.org .

Thanks Tara for clarifying the psychodrama.

Its been a meaningful and helpful therapy for me, and has reduced my ADD symptoms. I've done quite a bit or work on my financials through psychodrama as well and have seen very good results. Relationships have improved immeasurably. I have friends and make friends now in a way I never was able to before. My stress is much lower. My self acceptance is much higher. My independence as a person and an individual has expanded. Part of that is econonomic independence, making enough to not feel strapped when I want to buy something luxurious or enought to pay all the bills including the unexpected ones, and enough to take the family on vacation. This is important. It was a step that was always available to me, having my own company, but one that I was holding myself back from, for a multitude of complex reasons. Psychodrama got down to the complexities that I could not even begin to fathom. Once the psychodrama unfolded the true answers, it was kind of like a lightning bolt! Things started changing in the right directions.

Thus, I am committed to enlightening others that psychodrama is a real therapy choice, and to consider how much it might help overcome our own personal nuerosis, our own repetitive frustrations that lead to unhappiness or dissatisfaction with our lives.

Its not like a direct linear thinking type of therapy, where A connects to B. Unusual relationships between experiences are uncovered in this process, bringing to light what we are really made of at a deeper level. With this unique understanding we are able to reguide our lives much more successfully.

Jon

I guess my question in a nutshell is are there any others who have found a mate who was not totally focused on how much money you brought to the table but valued your other many contributions-you know like raising kids... In other words one bread winner...

Or how much fun you are, or what compassion you have for others, or....

I did! I did! It is possible. But I do have a part time job. Not big bucks.

Indeed I did.. and in such a big way that it hurts most times.. ;^)

My mate only asks that I be happy.. groan..

Her permissiveness has allowed the responsability for my coping skill set to land squarely in my own lap. She's a knowledgeable woman with a pile of insight into working with kids (of all ages) with all sorts of troubles. She is one wise partner and I seldom feel worthy to be with her. The great thing is that she can remember the things I contribute that are valuable where I can't remember them. A remarkable asset for me in my quest for a more useful and happy life.

She used call back as she went out the door to work in the morning: "do what you can." in a calm tolerant tone.. it was a curse for years as I was so crippled.. sometimes for months on end that even the smallest task was a challenge.

I don't believe men would be so prone to this degree of compassion. One thing that remained a constant with my wife is the need to provide me with "my own" money. I expect that the financial dependence issue is clearer for women than it is for many men.

Before losing my adhd "coach" earlier this year I was on an unprecedented roll where i was contributing more emotionally and financially than ever before and by a wide margin. It allowed for an addition to the house and many other things the girls and my partner were excited about.

I was most excited about the fact that I was feeling very useful and I could feel my self esteem rising by the day.

I can't say that it's fair the way our marriage has worked out, but the three girls have access to a Papa that can sometimes offer outstanding creativity in assisting many of their pursuits. < g >

It is possible to find a mate. I found mine in a companions wanted ad.... she was very specific and I was outraged by her naivete and was not going let it go by unchallenged. Four drafts of a response later.. married with children and about to celebrate 18 years married.. I am so very grateful but at the same time I can remember clearly the pain you describe in not being able to find that soul mate. I don't ever feel that my wife got a fair shake. It is a primary drive, spurring me to find better coping skills.

She married an alcoholic with some major issues but found her way to recovery well in advance of any desire on my part for the same. She's done her fair share of work on herself and the things that made such a hard ***-ed biker as me attractive.. I think her mother nearly died meeting me for the first time.

Well zzzatwheel this has been a lot about "me" in hopes that you find some hope in my experience. I'm lucky but you can be too.. I hope.

Here is wishing you all the strength required in the mean time.

Easy does it. Ian

Wow what a story Ian. Thanks for sharing and opening up about your life and your marriage. Very touching story. Keep at it!!! And your daughters do have something other kids don't, so there is some silver lining in every household scenario. No two houses are every going to be exactly the same.

Now as far as partners, who don't give a hoot about money, well I think I married one. I didn't have a dime to my name when we got married; well, just enough to cover most of the wedding costs, but even that was partly covered by family on both sides. We didn't care about money, either of us. Now it is becoming more important to have, as our daughters are growing, need more things in their lives, and we want a nicer house, vacations, and so on. Back then, we didn't care about that stuff. But we were young.

Values change about who we want to partner with as we get older I believe. I think in some ways we are more difficult to partner with as we get older, because our self esteem tells us we want the best partner we can find. When we are younger, I think we fall in love, and get married. When we are older, we are thinking about the quality of sex, is she a hard worker, is she good with children, can she organize and clean, is she a doer or a dreamer, how will my friends like her, can she socialize with everyone, does she know how to throw a party, is she fun to be with, does she tend towards depression or optimism, etc etc etc.

I never thought about that stuff when I was younger. I can't imagine finding a partner now that would fit all my requirements anymore. I would have to drop the bar a little in order to allow anyone to be eligible.

But that doesn't mean that there are not people out there who care less about money..there are plenty. And there are people who value love more than money which is important. Respect, Acceptance, and Love are required for a marriage to work. If someone needs you to earn money to respect and accept you, then you either have to earn money or skip that dude. Keep dating and see what happens.

On the other hand, I truly believe financial independence is necessary in order to really be sure you are with a partner for love as a sould mate, and not for dependency issues. I would personally have a lot of trouble dating an adult who did not make a living, because I believe so strongly that money colors vision and I would not want anyone to partner with me who could not be sure it was from the heart and not the dependent side.

Is there any reason why you can't make a shot at becoming financially independent? It doesn't require wealth; just enough to cover the bills, the apartment rent, the car, the groceries. Being independent in that way is so refreshing, and if you want, you don't have to date anyone!!!! Or if you want to date, and break up with someone, no sweat, see ya! That freedom is in my opinion necessary in the dating process....

Just my 4 cents!

thanks for listening. Wishing you the best of luck in determining your relationship path. as for the advice, take it or leave it...its just an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions, everyone has one!

:)
Jon

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and honnest reply Ian!
And you have given me hope. I recognize now that I truly need a partner who is perhaps ADD themselves or someone who has the positives. I never realized how important a sense of humour was to me until I found someone who did not have one. So no more "straight men" for me- I want the funny guy who I can play off of!
Ian, I can't even imagine someone just wanting me to be happy let alone having it be true. You are so fortunate! It saddens me to think that you feel are not 'deserving of her'-poppycock I say! She made her choice and got exactly what she wanted! Again, your contributions are indeed valuable, if not varied!

I got quite a chuckle out of your reaction to her personals ad-I could just see myself writing out 4 drafts too! As for her mom, people and the status quo need to be all shook up every once in a while don't you think?! And that's where folks like us come in!

Congratulations on your 18th anniversary! And a Merry Christmas to a fellow Canuck! Hope to chat with you again! zzz

Oh Jon, if I had a nickel for every dude I skipped! Or skipped me, is more accurate. You make some excellent observations. Yes, now in my mid forties, my focus is on improving the quality of my inter-personal relationships along with my sexual life. And since both have left much to be desired in the past. it can only get better. Now that I know the dragon that must be slayed (ADHD), I feel like I have finally been given a map to better guide me and no longer will I be hopelessly lost and just treading water. (Please no need to tell me the relationship I need to work on is with myself-I have been doing so for 20 years and have a PHd in "me".) I don't refer to you Jon, just others who may be reading this.

I have always been financially independent and a pretty self-contained individual. Not to mention fairly self-confident. Curse of the only child syndrome, perhaps...There were numerous elements that all gathered at once to contribute to my downfall four years ago. Believe me, having to ask someone for money and to have to justify all purchases, down to those under a dollar, was sheer agony for me. I have never had to answer to anyone about the minutae of my life and if that is what relationships are about, I think I will just date for the rest of my born days. I really don't need the hassle!
I live in a city with a very high quality of life. We have the second highest rents in the country. The average income is around $70K CDN. Most everyone is well-educated, well traveled, well everything! So expectations are high. There is little mercy for those who fall on hard times- you know survival of the fittest really applies here! I may have to move to the country or to a smaller city. Which I am most open to! My skills are diametrically opposed to what 95% of the positions require. And in two languages no less! But I perservere!
I smiled when I read your list of things for me to be able to cover myself financially. Only because it made me realize how men don't take into account what we women have to shell out before the date has even started! Hair, nails, clothing, underclothing, dry-cleaning, jewelry, hose, shoes/boots, purse, makeup. perfume etc. etc etc ! Thank goodness I don't drive, I would never be able to afford to be seen in my car! LOL!
Jon, never appologize for giving opinions- if people don't have them, they may as well be dead! And that's my opinion! Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post-I feel a little bit more welcome here. Happy holidays to you! ZZZ:)

Thank you for enlightening me about the real expenses a woman has to look at before she goes on a date. I really didn't consider it, and that is just because being a guy no woman ever told me! But when you think about it, women do look so good, and it makes sense that there must be some major money spent looking so nice. Thanks!

It sounds like you were on top of everything and then it all came tumbling down. This happened to me, when I was an Honors college student, writing for a newspaper, on scholarship, and getting grants to do research, and then I lost the ability to READ!!!!! Literally, I could not read another book, another page, another senetence, another word!!!! Everything I read went in one end and out the other, no retention or comprehension and I could not find my place on a page for the life of me.

So I had to leave all of that and move to another city, and make my way in the world without a college education. I was depressed! My world came crashing down!

I was a survivor and found things to do with my life, less meaningful of course, but 9 years later found out about the sleep apnea and the add, and returned to college able to read better than I had in all my life. College was easy in comparison, with the ability to read and comprehend nearly without effort in comparison to the old days when I would read and re-read and re-read.

I empathize with the down crash, but you know what you are dealing with and will be ontop of the world again soon, higher than before, with more ease, and happier.

Lets keep this dialogue open.

Happy holidays,

Jonathan